Melinda Mills

*** g79 5/8 pp. 27-28 Should Children Be Spanked? *** But does loving discipline include a parent’s use of spanking? According to God’s Word, it definitely can, when the spanking is an expression of and in a manner consistent with love. Consider these verses from the inspired book of Proverbs: “Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him.” (22:15) “Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death.” (23:13, 14) “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.” (13:24)—New International Version. While such references to the “rod” could cover various forms of discipline from parents, physical chastisement is certainly included. Whether they do it with the hand, a wooden ruler or some other type of appropriate “rod,” parents are authorized by God to use spanking in lovingly disciplining their children. The Bible, however, helps parents to avoid going to excesses by offering strong counsel against giving way to violent anger. (Prov. 16:32; 25:28; Col. 3:8) If a parent, ignoring this counsel about controlling anger, fiercely hit a child in an outburst of fury, that would be contrary to what God’s Word says about discipline being an expression of love. The Bible in no way endorses angry whippings or severe beatings that bruise and can even cripple a young child. That is child abuse, not loving discipline. A wise parent recognizes that there are various ways to correct or punish a child. Sometimes just a firm word will do. In other cases a disobedient child may be briefly isolated. When a child spills or breaks something through childish carelessness or irresponsibility, often it is most effective to make the child clean it up or work to replace it, if feasible. Of course, flexibility is important, adapting the discipline to the situation and the child; what works with one may not work with another. Yet, even as the Bible shows, spanking does have value as an occasional form of discipline, especially for young children. As they go along, most children will, time and again, challenge their parents’ authority, testing to see if they “really mean business” and deserve respect. Even nice children may say, “You shut up!” or “No, I won’t do it!” One doctor explained that it is as if the child knows where ‘a line has been drawn on the ground’ and yet crosses it to see what the parent will do. Can the child get away with it? Who is in control? Particularly with very young children, such a challenge is not necessarily a time for an abundance of words. A spanking may be in order. No, not beating a child into submission, but a firm spanking sufficient to underscore who has authority. As any tears subside, the parent can lovingly take the child into his or her arms. With quiet words, or just a warm embrace, the parent can say: “I love you too much for you to grow up without recognizing authority and the need for respect.” These are also choice moments to offer guidance that will touch the heart. After one father read in Science News the previously quoted view about avoiding spanking, he wrote to the magazine: ‘When my children were outright disobedient, my wife and I pointed out the reason for the violated rule and the child acknowledged the need for the penalty. Once, after the agreed-on number of smart spanks had been delivered with the paddle, my son (about 6) crept into my lap, hugged and kissed me and said, “Daddy, I guess I’ve learned my lesson.”’ All around us we see the sad consequences of excessive and misplaced permissiveness. So we should be able to appreciate the truthfulness of the Bible’s statement that “he who loves [his child] is careful to discipline him.” (Prov. 13:24, NIV) It is truly loving for parents, in a child’s early years, to commence helping the youngster to recognize authority and to realize that there must be reasonable limits to freedom. The brief pain of firm but not harsh spankings when a young child needs such is certainly better than the grief that comes if, in teen-age or later years, he has not learned those lessons. It takes real effort for parents to spank wisely—to avoid letting misplaced affection cause them to refrain from spanking, and yet to control themselves so that they do not let spankings lead to brutality or child abuse. But the counsel from our Creator, and the good effects forthcoming, prove that this effort is worth while. As Today’s English Version renders Proverbs 23:13, 14: “Don’t hesitate to discipline a child. A good spanking won’t kill him. As a matter of fact, it may save his life.”

(Proverbs 23:13, 14) Do not hold back discipline from a boy. If you strike him with the rod, he will not die. 14 With the rod you should strike him, In order to save him from the Grave. (Deut 6:7) 7 and you must inculcate them in your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road and when you lie down and when you get up. Some persons might feel that discipline can be done any place. Everyone will not think or act alike in everything. We just had that in the Book study. One brother understood what he had to do to be at peace with Jehovah and follow his Son (2 Peter 3:15) whereas others - even those taking the lead - were wondering and pondering. Eventually they realized that neutrality was. My mother used to discipline my nieces when they were very small at the back of the Kingdom Hall. (It is a very common practice here in the Caribbean but it is beginning to die out here too.) They learned not to misbehave at the meetings - which they could not do at home. They are now both married in the truth and still love Jehovah. She never had to do it with us, she would just give us a "look". Then you have to get over the fact that even some Witnesses do not believe the scripture above in Proverbs 23:13.14 should be followed, although millions in and out of the truth testify that the discipline they got from their parents is responsible for their success in life. They prefer to do what the governments say. They think it is child abuse. They try to be more righteous than Jehovah.

That's nice of him. Thanks to both of you.

You would first have to find them and then determine if they had sinned. Why would they need to be baptized? Too farfetched.

I did not see the Paradise Lost to Paradise Restored book there. My parents studied that with me as well as Let God be True and Things in which it is Impossible for God to Lie. I came across a fairly new looking copy of the Let God be True a few years ago, an in-law left it in the house. I am treasuring it. I have books mostly from the late sixties and 70s, and bound volumes from the 60s, as there was a special reprinting in the 90s of the sixties bound volumes. I have stopped keeping bound volumes from last year and hope the Watchtower CD would be adequate.

I am inviting all those who are using straw and vegetation interchangeably to please look up the meaning. All animals can't eat straw but they do eat selected vegetation even if it is a moss in the sea. Right now humans are using vegetation but they also use meat from animals, birds and fish. In the beginning man was eating from fruit-bearing trees only (selected vegetation). I am just saying that it is possible that it can revert to that.

I suggest you too leave the room artfully.

Well, all the animals cannot be eaten at the same time, so instincts will help them to survive - finally to be eaten on another occasion if death doesn't precede. Humans were meant to live in peace also. But we also still need instinctive wisdom in order to walk the streets and return safely from the human jungle cities and neighborhoods. What is the scriptural authority for contradicting Genesis 1: 29,30? Jesus was a Master Worker with God and he saw and knew everything but he said "It is written". "That the interpretation that all animals were created as herbivorous is no longer held." BY whom?

A very good point here. God placed selected numbers in the Ark of every kind of animal living on dry ground. Clean animals in sevens, unclean animals in twos. If he expected them to eat one another he would not have put such low numbers and Noah would not have had to gather food for them for roughly a year. No problems with the animals were reported. Another good point here. God can control fertility. Already we have animals which are not very fertile, e.g. the panda. (The animals will not have everlasting life nor will pets be resurrected.) However, God has everything at his disposal to bring about his purpose.

To work with a horse, a great deal of training is required. Some of them might be trainable, but not necessarily as pets. But there has to be room for "a little boy will lead (train?) them" but they will be free to be themselves; absolutely no circuses. I still think they will eat vegetation though. Nothing is impossible for God. There is a reason God is not telling us everything.

Looking forward to your answer/thought, James.

*** it-2 p. 1069 Tattoo *** A permanent mark or design on the skin made by cutting the skin to produce scars or by inserting coloring matter under the skin. The Israelites were forbidden to engage in this practice, one that was common among some other ancient peoples. (Le 19:28) For example, there were times when the Egyptians tattooed the names or symbols of their deities on their breast or arms. By complying with Jehovah’s law not to disfigure their bodies, the Israelites would have stood out as different from other nations. (De 14:1, 2) The prohibition would also have impressed upon them a proper respect for the human body as God’s creation, to be used in honoring him.—Ps 100:3; 139:13-16; Ro 12:1.

(Romans 14:19-23) “19 So, then, let us pursue the things making for peace and the things that build one another up. 20 Stop tearing down the work of God just for the sake of food. True, all things are clean, but it is detrimental for a man to eat when it will cause stumbling. 21 It is best not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything over which your brother stumbles. 22 The faith that you have, keep it to yourself before God. Happy is the man who does not judge himself by what he approves. 23 But if he has doubts, he is already condemned if he eats, because he does not eat based on faith. Indeed, everything that is not based on faith is sin.” (1 Corinthians 6:12) 12 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are advantageous. All things are lawful for me, but I will not let myself be controlled by anything. Why do we wish a tattoo? It can cause stumbling. Do we wish to conform to the world? (Romans 12:1, 2) Therefore, I appeal to you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason. 2 And stop being molded by this system of things, but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Why has it become popular? Why did only certain persons of questionable repute wear tattoos decades ago? Is it something required? Or would it make people think twice about your judgement? Would you get the job wearing one? How do we know we or a significant other would like it years down the road? What does it say of the world of today? (Think about degradation and the slippery slope.) ==== What do we think of God’s creation? God’s art? Do we agree with God or the Psalmist? (Genesis 1:31) After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day. (Psalm 139:14) I praise you because in an awe-inspiring way I am wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful, I know this very well. Graffiti is usually cleaned off; true art stays and becomes more valuable. Why can’t we be thankful Jehovah told us something he does not like? Do we think Jehovah likes murder, adultery, incest, stealing, war, etc. because we are no longer under the Mosaic Law? He said he cleansed foods that were not permitted for Israel under the Law but he has not cleansed any of these things. Do we have to ask others or are we convinced? (Romans 14:22 22 The faith that you have, keep it to yourself before God. Happy is the man who does not judge himself by what he approves. Make your own decision based on your faith and what you know about the God YOU serve.

@Eoin Joyce Nice discussion. Had those two texts in mind when I was writing but decided to leave them out. It is just a discussion. We all have preferred viewpoints and the scriptures support some of them, but we will all learn in the future. Love this part of your comment: "This allows for a wide variety in the personal visions individuals may cherish on what conditions will prevail in the paradise earth to come, but in no way allows for an imposition of such views on others where there is no clear Scriptural basis. By the same token, the relatively harmless views of others should be respected, regardless of any perceived naivety on the part of those who feel their more educated perceptions deserve higher credence. " I did not commit to everything the author said but I do believe that animals as well as man can exist happily without having to kill and eat meat. Jehovah has limitless wisdom and there are other ways to keep down animal and insect population besides predation. Lots of things the Bible says are perceived as naïve, even the fact that the system will have an end. However, Jehovah's way will prevail when the time comes.

Jehovah did not puncture our earlobes (mine is not) nor did he give us tattoos. Thought you would have been telling us.