Cheepcheep

15 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

Thanks for welcome! - and info.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102005009?q=tacking&p=par

"How Fish Swim Upstream

According to a study published in Science magazine, brook trout and other varieties of fish exploit turbulent flows swirling around stationary objects in the water to minimize effort and give themselves an energy-saving boost against the current. By altering their body position and synchronizing movements with the eddies they encounter, says New Scientist, trout save so much energy that they do not have to use their main swimming muscles. “ItÂ’s a very low-energy way of moving through a turbulent environment,” explains one of the authors of the study, George Lauder, a biomechanician at Harvard University. In effect, says New Scientist, “the fish were bending their bodies into wing-like hydrofoils to catch the eddies, like a sailboat tacking upwind.”

 

Maybe the trout  look like they are working really hard compared to fish swimming downstream.    But -

" they  save so much energy that they do not have to use their main swimming muscles. “It’s a very low-energy way of moving through a turbulent environment,”'

"like a sailboat tacking upwind.”    

 

- because not always sailing downwind?

14 So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching..[ Eph. 4]

 

 

I'm not an expert in sailing, but I believe sailing both with and into the wind is possible. I think they change the type of sail on modern boats. The above scripture I think is about control, steering and sails. If you lack control you'll be blown aimlessly in any direction. But if you have some control, since we can never have complete control,  then you can steer through a stormy sea, raise or lower sails depending on the wind strength. This implies, for us today, that thinking ability is needed when navigating tricky situations. That many of life's challenges aren't so straight forward, but made up of many layers, that take time to go through. But thanks for your research!

Hi sis, welcome to the fold!  In the last 5 years we've had more "big" adjustments than in the previous 10 years of "smaller" adjustments in our understanding. These are the "tackings" the poster was referring to. Each adjustment is like a small turn, the big ones are bigger turns or changes in direction. Like the Chariot of Ezekiel it can suddenly move at right angles at the speed of lightning, without turning or slowing down as it moves in the new direction. These too, are like strategic "tacks". Our appointed Commander and Chief is Jesus, Head of the Congregation. But it is Jehovah described on the throne in Ezekiel. Later in Revelation chapter 4, we get a glimpse of same throne, perhaps at a different more peaceful time since the one sitting on the throne is no longer surrounded by a rainbow with energetic flames flowing forth, but a peaceful emerald rainbow. It is our nature as a people to adjust or "tack" but some do no like it. If you compare the churches who prefer to stay the same, with no changes, it's good to ask those ones, what is better? There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways of thinking, so long as we all recognise that no one knows everything  except God.

Languages are fascinating aren't they? Some unrelated languages may have words that are spelt the same or even sound the same. But They may not have the same thought or meaning. Take the Māori word Morena and the Spanish word Morena. Both are spelt and sound the same, but have different meanings, and those meanings can not be related or connected to the thought of the other, not even related grammatically. One means "Good morning!" and the  other describes a dark colour whether a person's skin or hair. One is a greeting, and the other is an adjective. 

Although, one thing is sure, Egyptian and Hebrew are cousins, having emerged at the same point in time, according to the Bible, at Babel of Shinar. One came through Noah's son Ham, through his son Mizraim. The other came through Noah's son Shem, possibly by way of Eber, from which we may get the word Heber, and eventually, Hebrew.

So, Amen has two very different thoughts in both languages. If I went to Spain and said "Morena!" do you think they would know what I'm saying? Likewise, if they came to New Zealand, and they said "Morena" would I reply, "well some are, but not all!"

I do like the thought in Revelation though, that Jesus IS the AMEN. So it makes me feel like he is implicitly stated every time we say Amen. Which then made me think, why do we finish saying , "through Jesus' name" if he IS the AMEN. He is the one through whom all other things came to be so. He is the one through whom God confirms or fulfills his word. So isn't that interesting, hmmmm... what to do... what to do?

Thanks for your comments Witness. I have no qualms with discussing the light of Christ. He who said 'I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. He did not send himself did he  Nor is the one sent ever the superior.  As Paul remarked, stars differ in glory from each other, the light of the moon is not as brilliant as the light from the sun. Indeed, the moon only reflects the sun's light. So for us, Jesus' light as brilliant as it is is to the glory of God the Father, who sent him. 

In fact both, a person needs to accept not just Jesus and his Father but also the spirit too, recognising their roles and functions. well, that's how I was taught and still believe. 

Mat 7:21-23 mentions 'doing the will of the Father' so if we ignore the Father's will, how would Jesus respond?

Thank you Witness, I have tracked the changes. I'll just say, I'm not here to be right or to win. There are some interesting zig zags  Our material has reported that these zig zags are like a yacht moving toward the goal, It does not take a direct line, but must tack or zig zag back n forth at the angle of the direction of the wind or spirit. This is very well and reasonable if true. However, a yacht in a race, should never turn 180 degrees and move back toward where they came, unless it's a temporary 360 degree penalty turn for infringing upon the competing yacht. So for a short time, the yacht might be facing 180 degrees. That might help to explain why at times we've made a complete 180 degree change in understanding. Too, the implication that we are racing another yacht to the goal may concern some. But to respond to your comments on what some writers may call "flip-flopping" in on doctrines, I have only been a JW for 20 years but have read most of the Watchtowers from 1950 onward, a few from before that too. All in an effort to try and see both perspectives more clearly. The "this generation" one is of current interest as the old saying that "millions now  living will never die" uttered by Rutherford I believe, is proving difficult to continue supporting. JWs are about 8.5 million, the world average population of elderly people is about 8 percent. Applying that to our organization and we arrive at a little over 100,000 elderly over 60, a much smaller number of which would be in their triple digit age. So another saying, "those that saw the events of 1914 will not pass away until all these things [the Jesus mentioned] occur, too, is looking to be improbable, as these ones would need to be older than 104 years old to have been alive at 1914, to see the events of that time. Very few people in this world reach such an age. And in all likelihood, that group has already passed from the scene of this world. So, either the Tribulation has already begun, and those last few died off since it's beginning and before its end as we currently believe will happen. Or they are awaiting the first resurrection, which we currently believe they have received already [all those anointed who die from around 1918, 19 would not have to wait, but receive their heavenly reward instantaneously] , yet cannot have if the Tribulation had not yet begun within the last few decades, in order for those who saw 1914 to be alive at its beginning and not so before its end. However, a recent adjustment tells us that that group could have already died off, and it ls the second overlapping group that will be alive for the Tribulation and not so by its end. Consider too, that up until the early '90s we thought we were in the Great Tribulation since 1914  so technically that first group may have actually died during it, fulfilling the requirement of the previous statement. But ironically, among that group some did not believe that all anointed would receive their heavenly reward before Armageddon. Some, thought they might go through and help set up the Kingdom on the other side and then receive their reward. However, it was thought that the Marriage of the Lamb and the Bride had to take place before Armageddon, in heaven. So the recent adjustment has taken this into consideration. However, as we have stated in the Revelation Climax book, the Great Crowd do not need to be in Heaven for them to stand before God's throne. If then, some anointed are on earth at the Great Tribulation, do they necessarily need to be in heaven for the marriage? In reading of the bonds between anointed and Christ, they are already united when they receive and accept the anointing. They do not need to be in the same physical location to satisfy this union. Anyway I rambling  Over to you...

We have consistently reported that light means our understanding of things. However, we must differentiate between light-itself, and reflected light. For God is the source of light and he does not change. So light cannot be understanding since our understanding shifts constantly like the reflected light of the sun on the landscape as the sun rises up until noon or full daylight, when the day is at it's brightest, rather than a full or complete day as the sun sets. In that is another implication, that of the sun reaching its apparent peak at noon necessarily means that it wanes following the peak, that is if like the actual sun, it keeps moving forward and does not remain stationary   Of course, if it's a cycle, it will return to daylight eventually. Our understanding keeps changing yes, our viewpoint or perspective keeps changing, yes. But the light source has little apparent change if any. Also, too, the scenery changes over an extended time. What was once mountains and valleys may now be filled in oceans or covered in cities or roads. So the scene of this world keeps changing too. But we have stated that what we look at does not change, but our understanding or perspective of it. While true, if I stand outside my house on one side at dawn but simultaneously move one meter every hour clockwise, I will see both a different perspective and a different reflected light, than if I remained in front of the house all day long. So it does make me wonder, are we also moving around the object we're looking at as well as the sun moving across the spiritual sky? As this would be quite significant... It reminds me of the five blind sages who went to "see" an elephant story!

I'm late to this discussion, and it may have been mentioned already sorry. One can read the "Terms of Use" at the bottom of our site's pages. However, the wording seems in one paragraph, "You may" section, to allow the copying, downloading, and sharing of links and electronic copies of everything on the sites. Then, in the next section "You may not", disallows such actions. I'm not a lawyer, but the phrasing seems to nullify the entire agreement...

In times past, the sisters were left to look after the congregations as the men were imprisoned. Sisters took the roles of the then "congregation servant" until the roles could be filled by a brother. During the Tribulation it may be that the brothers are incarcerated leaving the sisters to fill those roles until some younger brothers are able to fill those roles.

Here sisters may act as attendants of the contribution boxes, or they have at times been used on the roving microphones.

In a local sign language group, the interpreters are sisters. The direction from the brothers shows some things need a head covering while other things do not, but it may be more practical to wear one right through a meeting. There they will normally have one sister sign each half of the meeting, rather than have several smaller parts. These ones sign all the talks by the brothers, but these are not considered teaching roles but translation.

Some difficulties they can face are talks about sexual matters, as sign language is explicit, or the memorial talk. Prayers may also be a difficulty for some sisters, but they are filling a need, a role, where no capable brothers are able to fill them. There are fewer brothers learning sign language than sisters. But for a time, it's nice to see the sisters filling a vital need for deaf.

On 11/05/2017 at 7:31 PM, Gone Fishing said:

So was it just Raymond Franz that supported this view?

"It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city ."
Sodom and Gomorrah were everlastingly destroyed as cities, but this would not preclude a resurrection for people of those cities" Aid to Bible Understanding 1971. p 1519

Up until the 2015 revision the above excerpt was still in the Insight Volume also. It has now been replaced with a more "we don't know, therefore wait and see" wording:

Quote

Concerning a Jewish city that would reject the good news, Jesus said: “It will be more endurable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on Judgment Day than for that city.” (Mt 10:15; 11:23, 24) Of course, Jude 7 says that Sodom and Gomorrah “are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.” So Jesus’ statement evidently was simply making use of hyperbole to emphasize how unlikely it was that people from certain first-century Jewish cities would repent even on Judgment Day.

This phrasing feels easier to accept now, since it has been a back n forth topic over the years. So it looks more neutral and a willingness to wait. We simply aren't the ones who decide who get resurrected and who don't.

Hi dear,  Watchtower Library 2015 updates itself each year dear. All you need is an internet connection and the program updates by itself on your computer.  So you do not need to get a new one each year. It contains all the pictures and some audio media, that has never been on the previous editions because the DVD rom has so much more room. Your best bet is to ask your local elders, who may have a link or some may have the ISO for you to burn onto a disc or setup and run directly from your computer. Hope that helps.

Ok so that was a long time ago then ;P

Yes I agree. The fact that they now produced some with the ability to make others, would mean they could improve upon themselves. I saw that they can now store human memory onto a brain implant now for patients with disorders that affect their memories. It won't be long before that information will be cloud based. People storing their memories online when they sleep and downloading them the next day lol Then you have hackers...modders...malware lol etc One day we'll need our own Antivirus and Malware programs

Hey Librarian, this service is run by bros. It is not affiliated directly to the organisation. However, the concept is similar to the third party services that provide the telephone voip systems that let us phone in for meetings. These are not directly affiliated to the organisation also. Although they are permitted. My encouraemnet would be to do the usual background checks, contact them, ask whatever questions that you feel are necessary. As you can see on the site many halls all over the world can be accessed like the phone call by password obtained from the local elders. Hopefully though, the passwords are more secure than 1111 or 1234  or some Bible date lol.

Hmmm AIs producing AIs that is a worry. Self improving systems will progress much faster than humans could, especially if dedicated to a specific set of improvements over previous generations. Facebooks one is designed to understand human behaviour. So many of their social experiments are designed to feed it the data they need.

AI are running right now. The next few generations will be interesting though. One difference between them and us is that they can be dedicated to one task. Whereas humans must coordinate many tasks consciously and unconsciously, which divides resources. I saw one documentary of an AI whose sole purpose was to "think" of all the possible configurations of a specific set of components and to come up with solutions that were cost effective and incredibly efficient. They think of everything we can conceive of and everything beyond that. Then they disregard everything not humanly possible at the current time. But they literally think up billions of possibilities in a short amount of time. Given this, humans have probably already been outsmarted by this 1st gen tech because they would have already simulated every possible outcome for humans and machines. Scary stuff but a cool sci fi movie!

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Definition of vindicate

vindicated; vindicating

transitive verb

1a :to free from allegation or blame

b (1) :confirm, substantiate 

(2) :to provide justification or defense for :justify

c :to protect from attack or encroachment :defend

 

Definition of sanctification

1:an act of sanctifying

2a :the state of being sanctified

b :the state of growing in divine grace as a result of Christian commitment after baptism or conversion

 

 

If you allow me to say; Do not worry about JHVH as name or He as God. He can take care of himself quite well.

JW members, or you as one of them ,  need to take care about personal, private protecting own sanctification because - "The generic meaning of sanctification is "the state of proper functioning."  In the theological sense, things are sanctified when they are used for the purpose God intends. A human being is sanctified, therefore, when he or she lives according to God's design and purpose.

Wish  you all best! :))

 

 

Thanks.

"Our Father HALLOWED be thy name."

A very well known version of the "Lord's Prayer". I agree with your thoughts. Yes, God has no need for anything, and there's nothing we can add to him, as if the created thing could ever do that However, through Jesus, God has asked us to "hallow" his name. Which is where the thought of my post comes from. In our translation:

"Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified."

Jesus said prior to his incarceration:

"I have made your name manifest."

So, in our prayers and by following the example of Jesus, in preach and teaching, we 'sanctify' God's name - that is, we play a role in setting his name apart, and treat it as holy.

So, as you pointed out, sanctifying ourselves is also very important, because God said:

"You must be holy, because I am holy."

What we do individually reflects on God. We have attached ourselves to his name and reputation. I can't say I'm perfect, nor say that I'm a holy or clean person by any measure of the words. But it is what I believe, it is something worth aiming for, while also acknowledging that none of us can actually by holy, in the absolute sense. Thank you for your thoughts.

12 minutes ago, The Librarian said:

Yes. It is now ok to use again.

There was once even a book entitled "Vindication"

 

Thanks for that.

Can someone confirm whether our understanding on the term "vindication of Jehovah's name" has been brought back?

I thought that sometime after 1984, but well before 2010, we dropped the idea in favour of "sanctification of Jehovah's name". But now, it seems we are returning back to it, as "name" can also refer to one's reputation, and Jehovah's 'reputation' certainly needs exonerating.

Thanks