BillyTheKid46

EUROPEAN COMMISSION OF HUMAN RIGHTS
Application No. 28626/95
Khristiansko Sdruzhenie "Svideteli na Iehova"
(Christian Association Jehovah's Witnesses)
against
Bulgaria
REPORT OF THE COMMISSION
(adopted on 9 March 1998)
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Page
INTRODUCTION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
PART I : STATEMENT OF THE FACTS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .3
PART II : SOLUTION REACHED. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
INTRODUCTION
1. This Report relates to the application introduced under
Article 25 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human
Rights and Fundamental Freedoms by Khristiansko Sdruzhenie "Svideteli
na Iehova" (Christian Association Jehovah's Witnesses) against Bulgaria
on 6 September 1995. The application was registered on 21 September
1995 under file No. 28626/95.
2. The applicant association was represented by MM Alain Garay and
Philippe Goni, lawyers practising in Paris.
3. The Government of Bulgaria were represented by their Agent, Mrs
Guenka Beleva and, subsequently, by Mr Vladimir Sotirov of the Ministry
of Foreign Affairs and by Mrs Violina Djidjeva, co-agent.
4. On 3 July 1997 the Commission declared the application
admissible. It then proceeded to carry out its task under Article 28
para. 1 of the Convention which provides as follows:
"In the event of the Commission accepting a petition referred to
it:
a. it shall, with a view to ascertaining the facts, undertake
together with the representatives of the parties an examination
of the petition and, if need be, an investigation, for the
effective conduct of which the States concerned shall furnish all
necessary facilities, after an exchange of views with the
Commission;
b. it shall at the same time place itself at the disposal of
the parties concerned with a view to securing a friendly
settlement of the matter on the basis of respect for Human Rights
as defined in this Convention."
5. The Commission found that the parties had reached a friendly
settlement of the case and on 9 March 1998 adopted this Report, which,
in accordance with Article 28 para. 2 of the Convention, is confined
to a brief statement of the facts and of the solution reached.
6. The following members were present when the Report was adopted:
...................................................... etc.
JW participate very much in politics to some level with other religious and non religious organization.
If you go to read few documents about Bulgaria issue and see what in fact was the content of "friendly settlement" then you will be surprised ones again.
JW representatives are participants on regular basis (for many years) in OSCE meetings as Non-Governmental Organizations.
What  is  OSCE? https://www.osce.org/who-we-are
Among its key partner organizations are the United Nations, the European Union, the Council of Europe, and NATO. Perhaps this is continuation after 1991-2001 disgrace with UN affiliation. http://www.truebiblecode.com/images/JWUNDPI.pdf
YES, WT and JW are politically involved.
There is no Neutral position, perhaps only  as  OBLIGATION for members, most for rank and file members.

By the way Grey Reformer ... did you know that former  Presidents of the WTB&TS swore under oath before God to bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America?
Here is the oath they swore:
"I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to to the same; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion. So help me God."
If they had not ... they would not have gotten a US Passport.
.... talk about selling your birthright for a bowl of stew ......
 
 

Po
I am glad you asked.
I did not insult you ... I only stated a fact, which you have confirmed just now, that in the area of political interactions in the REAL world, you are not aware of what is going on around you.
I am ignorant of many things, also. 
To say someone is ignorant is not an insult, especially in a specific area of human perception and thinking.
I could say that you have a nice car .... if you TAKE it as an insult, that does not mean I have insulted you.
 If you are a midget, and I say you are a midget, that is not an insult ... merely a statement of actual fact. Referring to you as a "little person" may be more diplomatic, but you would still be a midget..
The letter writing was a naive idea that could never have worked.  The Russian Federation is NOT governed by any concepts of fairness.
But, getting to your specific question ... Letter writing TO POLITICIANS and GOVERNMENTS is political activity.  Whether it succeeds in changing their governmental policy, or fails at changing their governmental policy is completely immaterial.
The fact that you TRIED is political activity.
You would think the GB would have figured that out after presenting their case in all lower courts, and the Russian Supreme Court .. twice.
Apparently NOT.
So ... they tried political activism.
That did not work, either.
But they niavely TRIED ... which the Russkies appreciated.
They must have laughed themselves into a coma, after stealing all the JW real estate, then .... getting 56 million dollars and 11 train boxcars full of thinly sliced firewood as a free bonus.
They have a policy that it is immoral to let a sucker keep his money ... but this exceeded their wildest expectations.
 
 

how is letter writing have any political implications? Did the Russian government change its mind, that you seem to think they did and are aware of it? It seems irrational to think that way, But, since you have started in a path of insults, I will not lower my standard of intelligence to meet yours. 

That is just the problem, Grey Reformer ... you are unaware.
You are unaware that anything one has to do with trying to change government policy is political activism.
You do not have to VOTE for something, to be heavily involved in politics.
Conversely, NOT speaking out against any issues of one "side" or another is ALSO , by omission, political activity.
You can protest in the streets in demonstrations.
You can engage in political activity by writing letters to your Senators, Congressmen, or even the President of the United States.
You can engage in political activity by entreaty,  by mailing 64 million letters to the Russian Government ... which by the way, NOBODY read, and they were either taken to a landfill, or used as fuel in wood burning stoves last winter. 
The only thing the Russian Government noted was the fact that 70% of the face value of the international postage was forwarded to them by the Universal Postal Union for terminal delivery, which never happened.
But they did .. they DID get... approximately $56 MILLION DOLLARS of the BROTHERHOOD'S hard earned money as an unintended free gift.
If you wanted to bribe someone, and make it seem invisible, that is one way to do it.
The Brotherhood in effect, at the pleading of the Governing Body ... gave the Russian Government 56 MILLION DOLLARS.
  The DIRECT result of political activism.
Plus, last winter "Fuel at the proper time".
You can "vote" with a ballot.
You can "vote" with your feet, by getting away, deliberately leaving the influence of political oppression.
You can "vote" with your wallet, by supporting, or NOT supporting things you find offensive, and reject.
And of course ... you can, as history has borne out, you can "vote" with a rifle.
You can "vote" by NOT picking up a rifle.
That is just the problem, Grey Reformer ... you are just plain ignorant,  uninformed, and consequently  unaware.
To one extent or another, everyone that lives, or has ever lived shares  that, including you, me, and the Governing Body ... as giving 56 MILLION DOLLARS to your political adversary clearly demonstrates.

And to think that I once called this brother ‘Allen the Terrible.’ Not only does he prove the resurrection; he proves the rehabilitation. A few Bible verses say it all. 

Actually I said that “Witnesses love this guy.”
I wouldn’t put it that way. Offense is more like it. Admittedly he is a cultivated taste and it is well that he is one of a kind among Watchtower ‘brass.’ But nobody would ever deny that he is genuine, nor of his concern for the flock. In a world of phonies obsessed with outward appearance that is a decided plus.
In general, the more ‘lowly’ our people are, the more they like him. The more enamored people are with the TV anchorman as role model, the more they choke on him.

Just chiming in with a couple of thoughts. The fact that you (Tom) felt the need to encourage others to appreciate br. Lett indicates that you think some do not appreciate him, and the reason for that is because he is a little different, there is no denying that. So you felt the need to defend him. When I first saw him speaking on jw broadcasting I had to look away, because I couldn't stand looking at his "crazy" gestures. And I know I'm not the only one. But I think we all got used to them now. What did irritate me a little was his pre-school type delivery, but as I said in my comment to you on fb, it is not a big deal as I believe he is genuine, and doesn't mean to sound condescending. What I still can't wrap my head around though is this "need to listen to some type of survival instructions". It may follow a Biblical pattern in the past, but I cant see any indication in scripture that talks about the great tribulation/Armageddon that anything like that will be necessary then. I get suspicious of the kind of statements which urge obedience now, the reason being that we will need to obey later to survive...

I was unaware sending letters to a government that disbanded the preaching work of a religious organization when it left other religions well enough alone, especially the Orthodox Church had anything to do with the Watchtower making a vote. What did all those letters VOTE for? If you can explain it with new evidence of truth, you reference as being, it would be greatly appreciated.

I would think, all those brothers, that sent in letters, in support of their brothers in Russia were doing so under the biblical guidance in Hebrews 13:1. If you have information to the contrary, please enlighten me.

However, if that assumption proves too difficult, then I must abide by what is mentioned in James 4:11 since this might become self-serving "In some very few cases your own perceptions may be true, but mostly they are simply just plain wrong." upon your own understanding.

These things have been shown, in context, in thousands of comments, with photocopies,  here on the Archive over the past seven or so years.
The context has been fully established many dozens of times.
What you have typed sounds very profound, but in reality, it is meaningless and fanciful.
In some very few cases your own perceptions may be true, but mostly they are simply just plain wrong.
 
 

Then we have just learned whose reasoning holds an irrational thought. Venturing into the past without a proper context leans toward desperation than facts.
I believe we have gone full circle with this assumption of, why perception is such a disingenuous and pretentious view for former witnesses and those that think with the same line of reasoning.

I enjoyed the parts that were relevant.
They did not mention that Bros. Russel, Rutherford  and Knor,  Presidents of the WTB&TS, WILLINGLY swore an oath before God, to the U.S. State Department, on their passport applications to ".. protect and defend the United States Constitution, against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
They did not mention the political activism of 64 MILLION letters sent by the Brotherhood to the Russian Federation to try and influence their political stance against the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society .
I wonder if the current President of the WTB&TS has a passport?
We are BOTH presumably sane and open to reason.
The only difference is that I consider FACTS, and reality as it really is.
 
 

Precisely. Now you have hit a snag with your own interpretation. Is the GB responsible for that? Every witness should be aware, the God of this world plays a pivotal role with the horrors that go on within society. Can we blame God for that?

The “assumption” is condemnation, but, who, what, when, where, and why? Facts seem to be appreciated but not when it’s not delivered, and rhetorical. That’s a double edge sword as well, since I have yet to see any.

As far as some of your questions go, I will assume they are rhetorical.
About the other, I hold the same opinion Abraham Lincoln had when he was asked, during the American Civil War, whether God was on the side of the North ...or the South.
His reply was (possibly paraphrased...) "I don't think God got us into this war, and I don't think God will get us out of it."
The Allied Forces won because they had greater resources, an unlimited supply of soldiers, and because they developed the atomic bomb, first.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Jehovah God has influenced a single event in modern times.
If you know something more than I, that involves hard evidence ... please tell me.
 
 

That’s good the idea on perception can have logical reasoning behind conjecture. Although, since you bring up WWll, and Nazism as though it can be compared? What truth can be extrapolated when the Nazi governing church prayed to God for their success to win that war, while the ally churches prayed to God for their success in winning that war, pitting their own professed brothers of faith against each other

Aside from those that gave up their faithful brothers for fear of death to the enemy, even though Christ made it a point not to fear such an outcome? Where does the wisdom lie?

The Nazis could have made the exact same statement against the Allied Forces in WWII .... that the Allied Forces perception was completely contrary THEIR perception and vision .... the mission and global blessings of half a world united under the superior philosophy of German Civilizationand the cultural superiority of the Empire of Japan.
Perception is a double edged sword.

That is why perception is such a disingenuous and pretentious view for former witnesses and those that think along with, the same line of reasoning. That is why the GB work tirelessly to do God’s work as envisioned and made known by God.

Those witnesses that have a true heart to see this, don’t have a need to follow “blindly” as speculated, but with genuine faith. Those without faith and a weak heart set their minds to question God’s words.

Hmmmm... I thought the Governing Body was supposed to be faithful and discrete slaves .....   ministering to ..... to the brotherhood.
The IDEA of providing " food at the proper time" is not to spiritually feed God ... it is supposed to feed the Brotherhood ... QUALITY food at the proper time.
WHOLESOME food at the proper time.
We seem to have, with BLIND respect for the Governing Body,  evolved into an idolatrous situation, divorced from common sense reality.

That’s the “false” inclination of former witnesses and some present witnesses that think the GB was developed to do their bidding NOT God’s. The ultimate responsibility lies within, not others. There is no one in this world that has the power to save a soul by the actions of another. The GB, is an inspirational derivative, just as Jesus was an example to the apostles.

Anything less from a witness would be a waste of that person's time, and a waste of time on an individual they meet door to door pretending to be something they’re not, true followers of Christ.

This is why, apostasy is relevant, and should be closely looked at by witnesses. They should understand their surroundings, and what role apostasy plays in the last days. I believe 2 Thessalonians 2:3 makes the argument, factual. Especially, when the weak are influenced by speculation of how scripture should be interpreted. Just as God chose the Israelites in ancient times? why would it be soo outrages to think God wouldn't appoint an organization in modern times to continue his unfinished work of proclaiming Jesus good news throughout the entire world since Jesus was unable to finish what he had started.

Let us not forget, it was the people that put Jesus on a pedestal and it was the people that became disappointed Jesus didn’t deliver on God’s promise in ancient times that the people got wrong to begin with. Did Jesus demand appreciation? Or would he run away when he thought the people were conspiring to make him something on earth, that wasn’t written in the ancient scrolls?

The appreciation that the GB deserve is the initiative they have to undertake a heavy responsibility and weight on their shoulders.

Anyone serving Jehovah in the correct manner is deserving of appreciation. That was the message from Paul to Titus. Any other Christian directive should be considered as a mark of Cain within Christianity. Since God made the laws that God and Christ commanded to obey. The GB are governed by those laws, and they don't promote any kind of thinking outside God's inspired words. Outside thinking comes from cynicism and a lack of biblical understanding.

Is it by choice? Or is it automatic, which threads are linked to EXJW sites. Especially a topic within a site that indulges and promotes EXJW agenda.

We also want others to share your posts to ALL the social media outlets not just our own.

Isn’t that part of the catchphrase and appeal?

I agree with you to a certain extent ... but there is a line ... and it has to be drawn "somewhere" .... otherwise honest hearted people with the very best of intentions unknowingly will direct you to jump off a cliff (so to speak...) and ruin your life ... all with the very best of intentions.
As a young man, at periods in my life, I was more empathic, and  was sorta like the Congregation "Ann Landers".
I ruined several Brother's  lives with my ignorant advice ... with the very BEST of intentions, because I was not competent to give good advice, on the subject being discussed.
Perhaps they SHOULD have asked me about the things of which I was expert, such as photography ... but they did not.
Bro. Lett is in a position to help ... or ruin ....  MILLIONS of Brothers and Sisters lives ... so he has to be evaluated on what he actually says ... NOT his reasonably assumed pure heart and good intentions.
I have no doubt that Bro. Lett is deeply loved by Jehovah God, and many, many people.
Unfortunately, there is no way for me to wind back the clock, and make reparations for the unintentional evil I did ... and the same applies to almost anybody else, with very few exceptions ... and that includes Bro. Lett.
Here is an example, from his own words.

Gravity Electricity Wind .mp4 Being of the Anointed does NOT give license, or a "free Pass", to encourage deliberate cluelessness in others.
 
 

Since you, TTH, were unable to supply a SINGLE example, and had a time frame of a THOUSAND YEARS ( ... and more!) to draw from, it PROVES .... and you yourself by specific intentional omission have PROVIDED the proof .... that your opinions on this conversation thread are completely irrelevant.
The "proof is in the pudding" so to speak ... but FIRST ... you have to have some pudding.
Your opinions on pudding bowls may be valid in some other context, but are irrelevant here and now.
 

Please give me ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of something like what you referenced happening in modern times, to any individual ... or any group of individuals .... anywhere on Earth .... ANYWHERE AT ALL ... in the last thousand years, TTH.
If you cannot .... it shows that the example you referenced does NOT apply to this discussion.
It's a "stretch" that snaps when tested.

..... placekeeper for whn I get back from the Meeting, and have time for a good answer ...