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Hankulan-Tunani

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Hankulan-Tunani last won the day on April 23

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About Hankulan-Tunani

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  1. I guess to "Witness" "JWinsider" "Scecko" "James Thomas Rook Jr" you are. You shouldn't have given me away. Sorry for the extension for parallel users, I don't know how to highlight the posters name like you guys. Any personal help is appreciated.
  2. I believe the narrator of this site has given everyone except the one talked about the most, that is not here to defend any allegations is the right of everyone, here. To what extent, only the owner is privileged to know since it's clear he, choices who is to be here. Your motives are your own. You will render an account to God. There is no need to express how stupid or childish your motives are when it's not sincere. The point is, Witness and JWinsider can use association to think, one person can be many. If True Tom hadn't publicly admitted his alter-persona, I would have never guessed. I won't have bothered with it. That's being the adult in the room.
  3. You have me at a disadvantage. Are you saying James Thomas Rook Jr, JWinsider, Anna aka Comfortmypeople, Melinda, etc. are not Witnesses? They seem to vote regardless. However, like the one called “Witness Persona” has discerned by the votes that are there to show the like or dislike by some of these characters, what is the purpose of having it if you're not going to use it. Is this the reason why? Ex’Witnesses that support their kind. Is it so farfetched that maybe there are others that are inclined to support those that tell the truth, and not be so absorbed with accepting false stories about the Watchtower and act upon it? That means they have their group of supporters while we have our group of supporters. They need to deal with it and get over it.
  4. That would conclude by this, that JWinsider, Srecko Sostar, James Thomas Jr, witness, and anyone else you wish to add to this list is one and the same. Am I dealing with children or adults? At least give me that in order to understand. I believe Witness mentioned honesty and integrity. How is this accomplished by this deception? I find it interesting when people do endless fishing, and never catch anything. Witness made a good observation “The arrows help identify the character” that identified the character of the same person using multiple accounts as you indicate. That means he just exposed the identity of the character of the same person using multiple accounts mentioned above. It appears, every time Foreigner downvotes, Srecko Sostar, and James Thomas Rook Jr come behind and upvote. I wonder if this is how you contemplate and target people you don’t wish to be on this site. Either way, I find your analogy child’s play. If you are a witness, a little maturity goes a long way. Other than that, just like Witness endless rants of mistaken Christianity, it's a waste of time and bloggers space.
  5. Does that mean that Srecko Sostar, James Thomas Rook Jr, and yourself are one and the same since you get green arrows from these posters, or can it be how dense some people can get by overthinking? If so, I can say well played to you. Should I conclude that Witness aka James Thomas Rook Jr is more appropriate, then? Or how about behaving as sensible adults should be in order.
  6. I'm sure that a few people didn't realize that you had made up the whole thing about someone "denigrating a relative" just to provoke a fight in the same way worldly people do when they hurl insults about each other's mother, and call each other "AH," which has been used as an abbreviation for a**hole. When you provoke and the other party doesn't respond in kind, I'm sure it can be frustrating. But please don't bring these same worldly attitudes and posturings into every topic. You end up discrediting yourself instead of your target.

    WTS Writing Department (Brooklyn) 1976 – 1982

    It appears the blame is not strictly on BTK shoulder. I believe the attitude of attempting to justify the reason why the money ended in the street as though worthless currency can be irrelevant to be just left in the street, was somehow a point you were dogging to legitimize.

    Where do you see your own fault in the matter? I believe frustration runs deep both ways. If you had agreed, then why did you find it a need to press the issue?

    That is a question for those that agree with your explanation. It seems the idea of worthless money in the street from past JW members happen to come true. The reason for that money on the street is irrelevant.

    There is plenty of blame to go around. It’s time to take responsibility for their own actions, rather than having an issue placed one someone’s shoulder when there is plenty of blame to go around.

    I agree that no one should bring worldly attitudes and posturing to this forum. That should include worldly views of apostasy. I believe you have a lot to answer for as well.

    1. JW Insider

      JW Insider

      I should let you know right up front that I had likely already figured out where @Hankulan Tunani was coming when that name first popped up in this forum a few months ago. It was pretty easy based on the topics and patterns of style that left me with maybe a 99 percent assurance that I knew why this persona appeared, and who was being represented. Now that you have picked the same name (with a hyphen, this time @Hankulan-Tunani ), even before I read the content of your post, I couldn't help but predict that you would be continuing some of the same themes in support of and in defense of BTK, and a parallel attempt to put blame on me. 

      Again, however, I don't mind at all when someone challenges anything I have done or said. I also agree that I have made mistakes here on the forum, and I was happy when they were pointed out. I have admitted these mistakes, will continue to do so, and hope more of them will be pointed out whenever I make them. Further, I should admit that I have no plans to share most of the 500 or so pages that I had kept in my files from Bethel. It's not that I believe that anything in our organization should be hidden from others. But there are certain items where sharing them would not be loving. For example I have two sets of Gilead Class Notes, and although I do not believe there should be any information that is only given to Gilead students, I believe that those who were invited to Gilead might feel slighted that their special privilege was being belittled by sharing a large part of it with everyone who had never been invited. Every now and then I have referenced Gilead Notes here but only for a single point at a time, here and there, when a related question arises.

      That said, I can still try to address your points. You said:

      Quote

      I believe the attitude of attempting to justify the reason why the money ended in the street as though worthless currency can be irrelevant to be just left in the street, was somehow a point you were dogging to legitimize.

      Please correct me if I misunderstand, but basically, it appears that you think I was trying very hard to attempt to justify or legitimize the reason the money was in the streets, even though the reason was not considered as relevant as the "fact" that it was thrown into the streets. I think this is exactly correct. Besides, I was not trying to justify it or legitimize the incident or the reasons for it. I merely agreed that the Snopes article is correct in that it fits all the known evidence, and no one has tried to provide contemporary evidence to the contrary, whether pro-Maduro or the opposition.

      Quote

      Where do you see your own fault in the matter? I believe frustration runs deep both ways. If you had agreed, then why did you find it a need to press the issue?

      No. There is no frustration at all about the matter from this direction. I'm satisfied and happy that we have a good understanding of this incident, and can learn from it. I agree with my own mother too that Ezekiel is partially fulfilled by such incidents, and I agree with the Watchtower that we can expect a specific, larger fulfillment more specific to the meaning of the prophecy in context. The fulfillment, as you point out, is really irrelevant, even if the reasons behind the specific incident in question came about due to economic sabotage from both inside and outside, and the vicissitudes of a heavily oil-dependent economy, and several other complex reasons. I think BTK must have thought that these particular complex reasons somehow would have spoiled the connection to Ezekiel and he didn't like the idea that these images have come to us as part of an obvious propaganda campaign to discredit the current regime, right or wrong.

      As you point out now, that particular reason should not have mattered, and it should not have been necessary for him to get so worked up about those particular reasons as if they negated his overall point. They never did. I still agree with the overall point.

      But that was no reason for BTK to begin dismissing the evidence, make new claims that are quite different from the evidence and the reality of the specific incident. For some persons who had made an inference that the photo could have been fake or photoshopped, I dumped a bunch of hundreds over my lunch to show that there was no need to think the photo itself was faked. It showed just how easy it is to create propaganda with money, too.

      I don't know the reason BTK wanted to push for the possibility that my burrito might have been some kind of drug paraphernalia, but I thought it was funny enough to respond to. I think he was just grasping at any straws to try to discredit whatever it was I was saying even though he probably agreed with me 100 percent at one point.

      Quote

      That is a question for those that agree with your explanation. It seems the idea of worthless money in the street from past JW members happen to come true. The reason for that money on the street is irrelevant.

      Exactly right. So why do you think BTK pressed the issue in the way he did?

      Quote

      There is plenty of blame to go around. It’s time to take responsibility for their own actions, rather than having an issue placed one someone’s shoulder when there is plenty of blame to go around.

      I agreed with the statements that were obviously correct, and when someone decided to try to discredit statements I made that were correct, I simply explained further why they were correct. That is a difficult thing for some to accept, so they begin lashing out with outrageous claims about drug paraphernalia, stating that what is true is somehow false, claiming that someone who agrees with their mother is out to discredit their mother, calling people AH, etc., etc. I'm sure you've noticed a history of this type of behavior from the same someone who claims to be a good Christian Witness.

      I don't actually think it's a lot of different people who are to be blamed for this, because I still think that AllenSmith who did the same thing, and BTK are the same person, along with a few other names he uses to instigate "fights" in others.

      Of course, it's pretty obvious that you are really hoping that some of this blame would stick upon others, including me, for continuing to hold to the truth of the matter while someone else was trying to discredit the truth by any means he could muster. I would accept that blame if there were any evidence. But even you, here, have only claimed that I doggedly attempted to justify or legitimize a side of the story, a side of the story that I am still sure is quite true. I see no reason to be blamed for expressing an opinion that the truth about a matter is true, even if someone else insists that what's true might be false. None of us should feel any blame for standing up for a truth, no matter how small or irrelevant. 

      Quote

      I agree that no one should bring worldly attitudes and posturing to this forum. That should include worldly views of apostasy. I believe you have a lot to answer for as well.

      I'm glad you agree about worldly attitudes and posturing. I also agree that no one should bring worldly views of apostasy. I bring a very scriptural view of apostasy to this forum, and I'm sure that is also difficult for some to deal with.

    2. Hankulan-Tunani

      Hankulan-Tunani

      Then it shouldn’t be a surprise on how you attempted to twist the narrative to suit your own personal goals. To somehow delegitimize not Snopes article but that which was made clear by BTK’s enlightenment of Ezekiel’s prophecy in modern time.

      The prophecy that many witnesses might think is overzealous since they wish not to conform to such understanding. A long drawn justification is a poor excuse to understand what your true intent was, even if other people don’t see it. Mature Christians do.

      Just like the game of association that you play. To believe one can be the same without proof is another example of poor judgment for a Christian. Something that has a worldly view written all over it.

      I also agree, that using apostasy as a blanketed excuse to further your own personal narrative to condemn the Watchtower whenever possible is worldly posturing. Something that shouldn’t be tolerated by any Christian Witness. If you find a network of Christian Witnesses with the same goal and simplistic wording in order for people like Srecko to understand, especially those that are not native to the English language, that is something you will have to deal with. Especially when trying to use your style of correct grammar that I find offense just like anyone would when you indicate it.

      I have visited this site many times. I have seen Allen Smiths comments to be direct and truthful. I also see when you were challenged, the owner protected you. So, let’s not squabble over what is posturing and attitudes. It makes for a poor example of what Christian values should be, just like knowing BTK, me or anyone else are not one and the same unless you have proper proof. If you wish to hack into a system, I will be the first to contact the FBI, keep it simple. Don't judge those that don't tolerate your kind of Christianity.

    3. JW Insider

      JW Insider

      Quote

      Then it shouldn’t be a surprise on how you attempted to twist the narrative to suit your own personal goals.

      Please don't be offended if I call you "Allen." Your unique logic and phrasing is such a perfect match to Allen's that you can just consider it a compliment if you wish. Of course, I realize that Allen might not be your real name either, but it was the most utilized of the noms de plume. Right or wrong, please accept that I must conflate your arguments here with previous arguments made under other names, which I will call, "Allen."

      So, it doesn't surprise me, Allen, that you claim the narrative was twisted. Allen always had a knack for doing something and then blaming that same thing on persons he tried to make adversaries of. And I can't blame you for trying to make an adversary of me. You may even think of me as your adversary. But I do not think of you as one.

      I'm simply a person who had some experiences that I think are important to share somewhere out of a love for truth. Several people know of my experiences firsthand. My wife knows some of these experiences of mine, and even shared a few of them along with me, too. But in the congregation, as you know, we cannot always give the true and correct answer to certain issues, without hurting someone, or causing misunderstandings. Yet we are under obligation to speak truth, letting the light of truth shine. Since, to avoid such misunderstandings, we end up being silent in front of most persons, I choose this place--this forum--to speak truth. Perhaps hardly anyone reads it here, but at least I am documenting some experiences, expressing some opinions, and I feel better from the perspective of my Christian conscience, by expressing the truth. At least I am not hiding my personal experiences and opinions under a measuring basket.

      I believe these experiences, especially, can be important in getting at the truth of several issues. Obviously you think these experiences are very important too, or you wouldn't spend so much energy trying to dismiss and discredit them.

      I suspect that you actually know that my experiences are true, and you probably realize that some of the opinions I have shared about certain of our teachings are also true. I'm guessing this due to the way you appear to have no problem using obvious deceptions to deny and dismiss. You also rarely come up with any actual reasons in response. This game you are playing in trying to make something out of nothing here with the "money in the streets" is a good example. You just keep claiming something is wrong, but won't even attempt to point out any specifics.

      I know my experiences are true, but I can't claim that my opinions are true, of course. But I can continue to express all of them honestly, looking for all the facts I can, in the hopes that others can help confirm or discount them based on their own experiences and their own reasons. This can help all of us evaluate each other's opinions. 

      From you, unfortunately, I no longer expect that you will do much more than just say that I'm wrong about something, impute a bad motive, and then grasp at empty ideas, often just "strawmen" often claiming I said things that I never even spoke about.

      In our congregation, I would just assume that you have a very different personality. You probably feel that you are doing what you are doing to protect others from apostasy, while I feel that I do what I do in order to protect others from being so easily swayed by questionable teachings.

      So, here we are at a kind of impasse. If you were in my congregation, however, I suspect we would both be working toward the same end, trying to protect the morals and morale of the congregation. We'd be trying to find encouragement and love among one another, under similar circumstances. For example, we had two funerals in the space of two weeks which allowed many opportunities to bind up the broken-hearted. We have several sick elderly persons. One just had a stroke (actually something they call a series of little strokes) and it has left the sister with blurred vision and difficulty getting back on her feet. She's still at the hospital. A group of us went to see her twice this week, and many others were there too. I think we all felt better after the visit. Persons my age (as young as me, lol) are afflicted with Parkinson's, cancer, RA, diabetes, etc.

      But on the brighter side, there's also a congregation wedding planned for May, and I have my own anniversary in June, and my wife and I are visiting my parents again in June/July. My daughter is pregnant with her second baby girl, due in May, and we are all planning on pitching in as much as we can. Both my parents "auxiliary" pioneered this month. I didn't, even though it's much easier to do this month, but I still found plenty to do "in the work of the Lord."

      I have also found that I was able to get a young brother into a fairly well paying job that started last month.  I give free lessons to a couple of persons who recently graduated (high school), trying to teach them a computer language. It's a language that I never even used myself before I retired,  but it's very powerful, and easy to learn and pretty easy to teach. (You probably know about it yourself, having been in Tech before. It's called "Python.")

      I'll admit that I haven't been nearly as active in field service as in the past, and I find it more and more difficult to start a Bible Study. I've had 12 at the same time in the past, and several have become dedicated and baptized over the years. I must admit that if I focused completely on doctrine that I would easily talk myself out of starting another Bible Study with anyone. So I admit a spiritual danger, and after "stepping down" I am just as active, but it feels a little more secular when it's not things I would count time for.

      But meetings, prayer, study, meditation and finding opportunities to show love are always there.

      But this new situation of mine motivates me to share my experiences and my opinions here all the more, not less. The more open we can be with our own opinions, in good conscience, then the easier it is to be able to study with persons, and have actual discussions about doctrines, without being dogmatic about controversial or questionable doctrines. It gives us more opportunities to follow the scriptures and focus on the more important things -- especially when we can say honestly that we aren't absolutely sure of this or that, but we definitely know about the importance of the kingdom hope, God's eternal purpose, God's sovereignty and the universal challenge to it, the reason for wickedness, the earthly paradise, the importance of the fruits of the spirit, moral cleanliness, encouraging one another, and loving one another.

      Since you've "pulled me aside" on this part of the forum, I am more apt to tell you more personal information about my "profile" and "status" rather than engage in the points of discussion you are raising. I can tell that on this particular matter you seem to have very little interest in the truth of it anyway. I don't want to further shame you or embarrass you over the many things you have said that have no basis in truth. If you truly think any of those points are important to discuss, then we can bring them back to a place on the forum where other persons are more apt to weigh in with opinions and corrections.

      The only thing I'll say here in connection with those points you tried to make is that most of them make no sense to me. When I take my best guess at what they seem to mean, they reveal a very unchristian, unloving and deceptive attitude on your part. The only clear statements that were perfectly understandable were the following:

      Quote

      I have visited this site many times. I have seen Allen Smiths comments to be direct and truthful. I also see when you were challenged, the owner protected you.

      I found several of Allen's comments to be direct and truthful when it came to others. I found most of his comments to me to easily proven to be untruthful when they were direct, but they were very rarely direct. I happen to know for sure that you have no evidence that I was protected because I never was. I still have no idea who the site owners are, and what their status is or was in their congregations, if any.

      I happen to know that you, Allen, were protected for a while, until so many of your blowups became so emotional that they resembled "word salads" of cursing and name-calling and judgmental condemnations of specific people. I actually believed for a short time that you might be an apostate who was just trying to give the impression that JWs were unthinking cult members who might just start attacking persons whenever they were cornered with reasonableness.

      Fortunately, you were the only person acting that way, and enough other reasonable voices were making it obvious that this was not the case with most Witnesses. Even so, I thought you should remain because it gave an opportunity for other Witnesses to prove their reasonableness. One of the admins wrote to me out of the blue and asked my opinion on whether you should be removed and I said absolutely not, that you brought a lot of value to the forum. But I still think most of that value was when you were addressing others, because somehow you never seemed reasonable when discussing anything with me, even things that it turned out you and I were in agreement on.


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