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Witness last won the day on November 7

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  1. I think Srecko was referring to a higher school to learn a trade. Yet, they have also greatly encouraged young ones (men and women) just graduating from high school to become pioneers, which would not allow much time to attend a trade school.
  2. I'm using a spork from now on. This gives me half a chance to stay sane and fit.
  3. I felt I needed to catch the speaker's words; they were, “apostates do not drift away from the truth”. In my household, there are four individuals who use to live the life of a JW; me, a widely known disfellowshipped “apostate”, my husband who is not disfellowshipped but never hesitated to reveal the organization’s hypocrisy to the elders while still “in”, my son and daughter-in-law who eventually quit going to the meetings, and are not disfellowshipped but shunned by all JWs they may happen to see. My daughter-in-law’s parents refuse to visit their daughter and grandchildren. Out of the four of us, I am the only disfellowshipped vocal one, the other three just walked away, yet all of us are treated the same. Because of the act of shunning, wouldn’t you say that all four in our house are considered, “apostates”?
  4. TTH: "There are actually two men whose name is a type of tree. Both are pseudonyms, the specific trees are different, and one was chosen as a tribute for the other. I think the two have been confused with one another here." I had in mind the Redwood tree, which is related to the Cedar, and both are in the family of the Bald Cypress. But...why must we speak in code anyway?
  5. Yet, it is no different that the GB calling ALL apostates, mentally diseased. Which, to those on the outside is translated as hatred. It is as you said, “But I think we should be careful about judging everyone who leaves by the noise that the noisiest apostates make” Should any noise made by an exjw be judged as someone cooking up a brew of lies in "Satan's kitchen"? Do you remember what fell into his hands? "Damning contents" of a box of "sins described in the letters ranged from the mundane—smoking pot, marital infidelity, drunkenness—to the horrifying"...and the "secret database of child abuse". It explains his obsession.
  6. The thing about the man whose last name is a type of a tree, both he and his wife suffered abuse by parents who were JWs. And he also knew of an incident of abuse in his congregation. I think you must agree that he isn’t mentally diseased, but mentally and emotionally scarred...for the entire rest of his life he will lead on this earth. Those who inflict abuse, are the mentally diseased ones.
  7. "Therefore if you have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?" Luke 16:11 Greek meaning for "unrighteous" - unjust; by extension wicked; by implication, treacherous; specially, heathen:—unjust, unrighteous. Now, your WT quote again, deceptively explaining the meaning for unrighteous riches as physical, earthly - "Only Jehovah God and his Son can receive someone into the heavenly Kingdom or the Paradise on earth under that Kingdom. We should diligently cultivate friendship with them by using what material riches we have in supporting Kingdom interests. Our everlasting future will thus be ASSURED when gold, silver, and other material riches fail or perish." You believe that your use of wicked, treacherous, heathen, unjust...material "riches"/"treasures", to support the organization's "Kingdom interests", will ASSURE YOU ETERNAL LIFE in the Kingdom, where "righteousness" will dwell. 2 Pet 3:13 "Who can bring what is pure... (eternal life in the "righteous" Kingdom of God from the impure? ("heathen, wicked" treasure having its source in the world of Satan) No one!" Job 14:4
  8. God never had plans for a financial system to exist in this world. Mankind was plunged into darkness because of Adam and Eve's sin. The "ruler of this world" has aided in our development of a financial system. God has offered us "riches" in Jesus Christ that we either accept or discard for earthly riches instead. Eph 2:1-5 It depends on the cravings of the individual. Tell those who have the riches of this world not to be arrogant and not to place their confidence in anything as uncertain as riches. Instead, they should place their confidence in God who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. 1 Tim 6:17 “Listen! Whoever is thirsty, come to the water! Whoever has no money can come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk. You don’t have to pay; it’s free! 2 Why do you spend money on what cannot nourish you and your wages on what does not satisfy you? Listen carefully to me: Eat what is good, and enjoy the best foods. 3 Open your ears, and come to me! Listen so that you may live! I will make an everlasting promise to you— the blessings I promised to David." Isa 55:1-3 “Come to me, all who are tired from carrying heavy loads, and I will give you rest. 29 Place my yoke over your shoulders, and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble. Then you will find rest for yourselves 30 because my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Matt 11:28,29
  9. Watchtower 1990 11/1 p. 26 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities "As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization." Jesus' words apply today, just as when he said them 2000 years ago: Jesus told her, “Believe me. A time is coming when you Samaritans won’t be worshiping the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem. 22 You don’t know what you’re worshiping. We Jews know what we’re worshiping, because salvation comes from the Jews. 23 Indeed, the time is coming, and it is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. The Father is looking for people like that to worship him. 24 God is a spirit. Those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:21-24 There is still no need for an earthly "mountainlike organization". Do you know what you are worshiping?
  10. Of course I do. I am sure my comments support the scripture. If you’ll reflect on the title of this post, it gives hint that it is your leaders who utilize 1 Tim 6 to label those who question the organization’s teachings as “unruly men who cook up wicked reasonings, season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds”. This quote comes from one of your conventions: You have heard the saying, “when you point a finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you”. Jesus said it like this: “Hypocrite! First take the beam of wood out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the splinter out of your brother’s eye.” Matt 7:5 JWs easily forget the false doctrines that the organization is built on, and which will eventually bring it to the ground. Matt 7:24-27 We have a choice today, one that involves our spiritual health. It is our obligation to heed the words of Christ and the apostles. If we notice any deviation from these teachings, the apostle Paul says: “Examine yourselves to see if your faith is genuine. Test yourselves. Surely you know that Jesus Christ is among you; if not, you have failed the test of genuine faith.” 2 Cor 13:5 If a JW is taught, admonished, expected to adhere to a new teaching that must replace an old teaching because your leaders were WRONG to begin with, who is the mentally diseased one? It is the one who expects you to follow their guidance even though they persist in wrong teachings. Would you keep buying a product from a retailer that has a track record of producing bad products? Of course not! How much more should we test, and REJECT the teachings of those who have been consistently WRONG? If you continue to spend your spiritual life in a haven of spent teachings scattered around you, what progress have you made toward developing genuine faith? If you continue to eat “fruit”/teaching that is rotten, you also, become mentally diseased. Matt 7:15-20 “If anyone teaches false doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing, but has an unhealthy interest in disputes and arguments over words. From these come envy, quarreling, slander, evil suspicions, 5 and constant disagreement among people whose minds are depraved and deprived of the truth, who imagine that godliness is a way to material gain. From such people withdraw yourself.” 1 Tim 6:3-5 False doctrine is deprivation of truth. Truth in Christ imparts life. John 14:6 They cannot reside together. 2 Cor 6:14 Jesus was considered mentally diseased also, for speaking against the teachings of the Pharisees. Mark 3:21; John 10:20; 8:48 Those of us who leave the organization to follow in Christ’s footsteps will find the same to be said about us. “A disciple is not above his teacher, or a slave above his master. It is enough for a disciple to become like his teacher and a slave like his master. If they called the head of the house ‘Beelzebul,’ how much more the members of his household!” Matt 10:24,25 “ When we apostles told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, we didn’t base our message on clever myths that we made up. Rather, we witnessed his majesty with our own eyes. 17 For example, we were eyewitnesses when he received honor and glory from God the Father and when the voice of our majestic God spoke these words to him: “This is my Son, whom I love and in whom I delight.” 18 We heard that voice speak to him from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain. 19 So we regard the words of the prophets as confirmed beyond all doubt. You’re doing well by paying attention to their words. Continue to pay attention as you would to a light that shines in a dark place as you wait for day to come and the morning star to rise in your hearts. 20 First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation. 21 No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God’s direction.” 2 Pet 1:16-21 Now, consider your long list of changed teachings, of failed Armageddon dates…”Beliefs Clarified”. Whose teachings do you really follow? Those sourced in the Spirit of God, or in human interpretation – clever, ungodly myths that have captivated and corroded any true faith one may have in God and Jesus Christ? Col 2:8 They are "clever" because JWs stay captivated to what will be produced as "new light" to come. They are "ungodly", because a lie is always, a lie. 2 Thess 2:9-12: "The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned." I know I have said similar things in previous posts on this thread, with the hope something said will "click" in the mind of some JW.
  11. JW baptism requires making a dedicated vow to the organization. There is no opting out of the second question one must answer "yes" to. 2) “Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization?” No other baptism outside of the organization would be recognized as valid by JWs. Can one be called a “Christian”, a follower of Christ if not part of “Jehovah’s organization”? That is certainly a conundrum for JWs to face if someone at the door or cart says, "I'm a Christian." I know when I heard people say this at a door, I was totally convinced they were NOT really Christians, but part of "Babylon" - pagans. And here we are, seeing JWs dedicating themselves to an organization at the time of baptism; a blatant act of idolatry. Can one be a slave to two Masters? Matt 6:24 "These people have exchanged God’s truth for a lie. So they have become ungodly and serve what is created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen! " Rom 1:25
  12. Did Jesus say we could use our material riches for him? This contradicts his words in Luke 18:22: When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” Matt 6:19-21 There is no scripture that I know of, indicating where Jesus put any value on accumulating money or riches and providing these riches for him. Matt 21:12,13 Do you remember it was Satan who offered Jesus the kingdoms, their glory (and their riches) in the world? Do you think he has, in the last days, made a pact with Satan, that he’ll now take riches from JWs for himself to build his own kingdoms in the world? “Unrighteous riches” convey a different, spiritual meaning: “When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.” Acts 8:18-21 No one, can buy the gift of life with money or material riches, as the WT is telling you. Undoubtedly, the world will suffer in extraordinary ways that we haven’t experienced before. But, you are reading into a symbolic book, Revelation, an incorrect view the meaning of “buy and sell”. In three instances, the book uses the word “buy”. “I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.” Rev 3:18,19 I know you don’t think Christ is offering us literal gold, and we do not buy this gold with literal money. This ‘treasure’ in gold refers to eternal life gained from the outpouring of his blood. We “buy” this, not with literal riches in the world (that Wt teaches as “unrighteous riches”) but through repentance, obedience, and faith in his sacrifice. We pay for it with our pure, clean, refined devotion to God. Mal 3:2-4; 1 Cor 3:13,14; John 17:17 We pay back Jesus by offering ourselves as obedient servants to his commands. John 15:10; 2 Cor 5:15 The symbolism of “buying” continues in Rev 13:17, where the “Beast”/false prophet of Rev 13:11,12 admonishes one to “buy” ITS spiritual “riches” produced by the organization that it directs. (The WT also refers to the Wild Beast of Rev 13:1 as an "organization") If one decided to reject this spiritual commodity, they are spiritually, symbolically “killed”. Rev 13:15 Now, isn’t this what the GB expects of all JWs, to “buy” whatever “food” comes from the “faithful and discreet slave” who “sell” it under the stipulation that no other spiritual commodities are acceptable? How does a JW pay for it? With their devotion, servitude and respect for the organization and its leaders. One must bear the “mark of the beast/organization” to take part in this spiritual transaction. There’s a lot of controlled buying and selling by all parties, in the org. 2 Cor 11:2-4
  13. I believe you hold the most optimistic broad view of the organization that you are able, in light of its tarnished image. Your viewpoint deviates from the normal belief of a JW, and especially of its leadership. Yes, there is a basic initial attraction to the message, which doesn’t cause spiritual damage. What does cause damage is what follows, when someone has been led to believe the organization is vital to serving God and Christ and that it always will serve up “truth”. Vital, because these new ones come to understand from its leaders, that there is no other way that God approves. It causes damage to families by separating them when one rejects the organization as salvation – which is just what you said you don’t believe. The ugliness cannot be erased away by a handful of teachings concerning war, hellfire, and the trinity. It would be disingenuous to oneself to believe worship within the organization is good and acceptable to God, when the organization’s sins are laid bare; perhaps aided by the people who possibly received the initial attractive message. You had made the comment earlier that you believed Christ transcends the organization. You are not the typical JW, who believes Christ ONLY guides the WT. This is an impressed teaching from the GB. It will be reinforced, and the majority of JWs will hold it as truth, even if in your heart, you don’t believe it. It is known as “God’s organization”, the whole package – sins and all. I agree, but WT's teachings discourage critical and independent thinking. This is what I know from Revelation. In the last days, an organization develops that touts to be spirit-directed, overcomes the saints/anointed and threatens to spiritually “kill” anyone who refuses to give credence, respect and awe to its existence. It is guided by a false prophet who appears to represent Christ. This leadership has transgressed their covenant in Christ, which is obvious by their unscriptural demand that their anointed “brothers” are not to bond together. (You will read about this again in the Jan, 2020 study magazine) It “tramples” down the priesthood of God using soften slander against them, expecting this priesthood to obey the men who not only represent them, but have charge over them. (Rev chapter 13) I know from scripture that this breaks God’s decrees. And, I am aware that this is how Satan attempt to destroy the the remaining ones of the “woman’s seed”. I am thoroughly convinced that the organization is a counterfeit. How can any type of preaching be acceptable to God when His special possession/dwelling/Temple/”organization” has been replaced by an earthly organization? This is what I wish JWs could perceive; God’s “invisible” organization are those priests who are presently trampled. Revelation and Daniel’s prophesy concerning the remnant is in full swing, and not having its fulfillment in the world. When reading Rev 18:4-8, God’s people are to “come out” of the “Harlot’s” grip. His “people” are His “special possession” already gathered in the WT, where they are held fast by captive philosophy, knowing that they may lose family for speaking against the tarnished image that claims to be the path to salvation. You may not believe this, but it is how an individual can earn the title, “apostate” - an individual who may have been delighted to learn about those basic truths. I wish so much you could see that Revelation concerns the deception that misleads God’s people. A gathering of believers – a “congregation” - is much different than an organization that must initiate guidelines set by men. When this happens, unrighteous judgment and oppression are bound to occur, which I’m sure you know. The operation of “organization” reflects all others in the world. Can one continue to believe they are no part of the world, while submitting to the traditional worldly procedures of “organization”? Think about it, in the organization, anointed are told they cannot gather together, by the men who represent them, since it would destroy the unity of "organization". Since being out of the WT, I can gather with whomever I choose, and study the Bible in depth, with no one to judge me but Christ. Rom 14:4 If God desires a good searching heart to know His Son and Truth, He will make sure it is accomplished…without the need of earthly organization. I have refrained from adding scriptures, since they are plentiful in all other comments and posts I have made.
  14. TTH - "Last I heard, your organization consisted of a page on Facebook." That is one of many sources where a person can find “good news”. If FB shut me down, I don’t suffer any loss. If the Watchtower is shut down; well, you saw Stephen Lett’s face when he stated Russia had seized WT’s material holdings, didn’t you? I don’t pay into facebook, unlike JW’s who pay into a “preaching work” that requires lawyers to fend off victims of child abuse, or to fight for their material holdings in Russia. Or, tell their lies in court concerning shunning. My “organization” is the anointed Body of Christ.
      Hello guest!
    TTH - "Last I heard, God is pleased when we bring him our best, not when we abstain from what we otherwise could accomplish because it is too much work". Could you be speaking of cart witnessing as bringing God one's "best"? Oh my. As if pulling up a chair and saying nothing to people passing by is pleasing to God? How do you ignore the blatant disrespect the organization has toward the law of the land? Rom 13:1-7 How do you ignore every aspect the WT uses to gain assets in the world, besides free labor to build whatever they wish? This doesn't please God! James 5:1-6 This pleases the ruler of this world. Phil 3:17-19

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