divergenceKO

Coming from a long-winded insane person that converted to accept apostasy to further his attacks and hate of the Org, it seems as waste of internet space if people are going to believe such an insane person.

But that's what this website is designed for, Apostates false, misleading, and hateful rhetoric.

8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Apparently the fat lady has sang, and for the corrupt Watchtower Lawyers who care ONLY about their client's monetary interest (... as they are actually legally responsible to do ...), and NOTHING about Truth and Justice, and Righteousness, the metal Opera helmet with the horns is theirs to wear.

That is what your naive assessment is. There are still certain steps to go before the fat lady sings. Your apostate friends just happen to apply one.

Of course the California Supreme Court and the Appellate Courts have spoken. That doesn't mean the US supreme court can't send it back to the lower courts for further review. That doesn't mean the Org can't ask for an oral argument for the highest court.

More hot air coming from an uneducated person.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

When children suffer, you have brave to call that as a "garbage"?

Maneuvers made by JW lawyers under WT Society commands and directives is attempt to defending International  Conglomerate Company with "religious" based "garbage" argumentation. 

Srecko, try learning something for a change. It's not about maneuvers, it's about the US process of the law. If you don't understand our laws, keep your opinion to yourself. Every topic you think you know, you just keep embarrassing yourself even further. Stick to up voting your apostate friend JTR post. That's a safer bet on how to support ignorance.

I see you like sniffing through other peoples garbage.

Technical denial. Most likely the petition was entered too late for a writ. 90 days from the California Supreme Court denied.

How about learning the laws. Oral argument will decide. The higher court can descend to have it reconsidered by the appellate court after the Supreme Court returns it for review. Depending on how busy the US Supreme Court is to hear oral argument.

Until the fat lady sings. Meantime, cheering for apostates to win, is bad Christian Conduct. Why are you still a witness? You have lost favor from God long ago. Listen to witness, maybe the conversion will give you better legitimacy to hate the Org like them.

17 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Hey bub, it's your governing body who keeps on changing the spiritual food they dish out, which is supposedly from Jehovah, it's your governing body who are telling Jehovah what to say, and you are worshipping them, that's all on you.

Anna seems to think you were being sarcastic toward JW’s and Not God. What she “fails” to understand is, I wasn’t referring about JW’s but instead concentrated on your own blasphemous words?

“Its good food until it becomes rotten, and “Jehovah has to come up with new food”

God doesn’t need to provide anything to us humans. He does so, so that we can benefit from his spiritual wisdom. God gave up his son as a sacrifice in order for humanity to have a second chance for internal life. How dare you insinuate as well as Anna that it was meant to be sarcastic toward JW’S?

How dare you command God that he has to come up with new food? That’s what “has to” is, a command. When, did you become above God to order God to do something. An attack to God’s sovereignty as well.

Your blasphemous statement that “Jehovah has to come up with NEW FOOD is a direct attack on God. You have made the, grievous of sins since you attacked God’s Holy Spirit that dispenses that “fine” fruits. IT IS UP TO GOD TO DECIDE IF THAT FRUIT SHOULD BE REVISED FOR THE NEXT GENERATION, NOT YOURS, NOT WITNESS, NOT JWINSIDER, NOT TTH, NOT ANNA, NOT JTR, NOT ANYONE’S BUT HIS ALONE.

Anna might want to dismiss your words. She can’t. She doesn’t have the power to forgive such a sin. She, might think so, but she would only be fooling herself.

People need to start respecting God more here. As for the governing body. They hold, apply, and obey God’s words more than you. You are a sanctimonious and arrogant man that just lost his soul.

This is the kind of Christianity being argued here by opposers? Get behind me Satan. That’s all on you Bub!

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

All you bad people had better stop doing and saying bad things—that’s all I can say.

I understand the power you have. You must be confused on whom the bad ones are. Try a little honesty.

 

4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Because you accuse others of "going against scriptures" ... without EVER giving an example.

I don't need to give an example, their actions and words along with yours is proof enough. If you're going to start to hound me like a leech and defend opposers, keep the long-winded comments up.

34 minutes ago, Anna said:

I think he's just being sarcastic. Duh.

Take it however you want, and accept it, Duh! I won't try to justify it that way.

I just happen to have more "respect" for God than just seeing it as sarcasm.

22 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you want to stay on this statement ?? Maybe my English is weak but it seems to me that you said how, insulting opposers is something what genuine witness is good to do.

In this case, YES! I think you should know the difference between the word "insult" and the word "rebuke".  Without TTH having to insult people instead of rebuking opposers would be the understanding. I didn't know I needed to spell it out to anyone here. But, I'll make an exception in your case.

10 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

and Jehovah has to come up with new food.

Are you telling God what to do? WOW! Setting yourself above God. I haven’t seen such a blasphemous comment. You just condemned your mortal soul, by sinning against God's Holy Spirit. Not to mention God's sovereignty.  I hope it was worth it to you. You can try to apologize, but that kind of sin is unforgivable.

17 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

You have over 5,000 of my previous posts to use as a solid example

Then you have 5000 prime examples. Just because the owner tolerates those that oppose the ORG is meaningless. You are a fine example of supporting opposers. Then your strength is in your hair, since you no longer have any, your moral strength went with it. I don't find any humor about your cartoons at all. People who think your witty, are encouraging the devils work. I don't find any of that funny.

So, continue blasting those that oppose the opposers. You're no Christian, no more than they are. You're no more a witness than they are. Who are you fooling, yourself. But then again, you always have. No surprise there.

3 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I think you are a windbag of Graf Zepplin proportions.

Keep blowing hot air as you normally do. I don't pay attention to insane people.

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Titan is tongue-in-cheek, not to be taken literally. I just meant that you express your points well.

I would say, quit while your foot is still in your mouth. I think you have insulted enough people already. Keep it to a minimum. Insulting actual witnesses and not opposers is not the way to go if you are a genuine witness. If not, then show your true colors and not pretend to be something you're not. I think we have enough impostors here already to add more to the mix.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Surely you don’t believe I expect you to spend hours replying to my comments.  But, if you comment where I believe you have applied scripture wrongly, I may give my opinions,

Then you must have a great opinion against yourself. I would suggest learning scripture correctly before telling someone else they got something in scripture wrong. That just means you and your church have a different interpretation of scripture.

Is it the correct one? You give a fine example of what Christ was NOT looking for in the Christian church, Divisions and strife. So how “correct” is your interpretation of scripture is you cannot keep simple commands of Christ.

No different from seeing JWInsider go toe to toe with Arauna because of pride and thinking his argument is better than “facts” presented by others. Self-indulgence is so late year.

Since “Blue Jay” has forgotten scripture John 17:16 in lieu of humanity, to be accepted by this world, it doesn’t matter what opinion this person now has in this forum. This person is nobody just like any opposer.

Maybe being as forthright about other religions might give you credence, Might!

Maybe you should try going to other Christian forums to have endless criticism of their church and see what happens. Hint, start with your own first. Does your church know you dishonor their church and Christ by going against scripture just to argue nonsense SHIWIII in this forum? Maybe your Pastor should know.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Drill is today as before for newbie, read JW publication, have BS, go to meetings, go to preaching and go to baptism. Ex members of Small Church didn't tell us what was the name of that Small Church, it is unknown, even in their testimony in video, no single "witness" gave any data to what Small  Church they belong before came to be JW !!! Why?

I hope you can understand the word newbie. While I’m new to this forum, it doesn’t mean I’m new to the Org.

Lets layoff that newbie stuff. The other would be, if someone had an experience that was inspirational to their life, it doesn’t matter if it was 50-60 years old, people will remember.

If something was detrimental to someone’s life, they would carry that for the rest of their lives.

The argument about that “small church” is inconsequential. Perhaps due to not BEING there anymore. Do you offer the name of your church here? Does witness offer the name of this person’s church here?

Suggesting the lack of information by those that have the same preponderance to show the lack of information about them is inconsistent with being a sound argument.

This YouTube community has been around since 2014. What would they know what did or didn’t happen back in the 70s.

The fact they are not JW's nor claim to be apostates just gives more credence to them being “born again” with an intellectual substance of zero.

“This channel is created by a non-Jehovah's Witness - never was a member - no "apostate" - with a view to help Jehovah's Witnesses in keeping with God's counsel through the Apostle John at 1 John 4:1. The aim is not simply to point out the errors and false prophecies of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, but to point to a better alternative - chiefly, Jesus Christ.”

The enlightenment is, it takes an opposer to support other opposers, while claiming to be representing Jesus Christ. Especially when using 1 John 4:1 to advance their agenda. Why don’t opposers consider, that very text can be applied to them in a manner that does reflect the words of Christ? By refusing to honor Christ other instructions. 2 Timothy 2:23-25

The good thing, Bro Splane is the narrator not the storyteller. The inspirational story is told by former members that actually witnessed and participated on that event. Firsthand knowledge goes further than secondhand guessing. I guess “Winston” forgot to apply 1 John 4:1 to himself. Especially when he wants to manipulate the narrative as though “all” witnesses were talking and waiting for the world to end in 1975, when the Watchtower publications are printed in advance. That means, the Watchtower and Awake had already been printed for 1975 as a normal function of the Watchtower.

This video is truly a disgusting video plagued with speculation.

This is why, when something new is found that can educate the public just like how “Jesus” looked like, it would be disingenuous for a witness to speculate what Jesus really looked like.

The Early church fathers and early paintings depict Jesus as white, blonde hair, blue-eyed individual. Now science is saying Jesus was a dark, brown hair, brown eyed individual. Who is correct?

We know where Jesus was conceived, the people in that community; were lighter skin than your average Middle Eastern. The Iraq Jew is lighter in complexion by comparison.

To suggest, one appearance is wrong, can be applied to those that falsely follow the same determination of suggesting earlier Christians should know better.

I wonder how those that criticize the Org. Before they joined the Org didn’t imagine Jesus looking just like he has been depicted for centuries.

At what point can modern investigations conclude, all ancient portraits are wrong by today’s standard for the ancients, to have corrected their works back then?

18 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If by Org you mean WT Society (American Company established in 19th century ) with every Corporations that is connected with Jehovah Witnesses people (all sisters or subsidiary companies, perhaps someone who knows better can explain what is legal relations between all this Corporations) and if by JW's you mean all baptized brotherhood (children, sisters and brothers of all ages) than you wrongly made conclusion how Second Class giving direction to and guiding First Class (including GB, who working and sleeping and eating in WT Society buildings and, as they said are not WT employees but they are, reading from your idea, are elected by Brotherhood not to Guide and Lead JW's but to be Body of Something). :))

I hope you understand the difference between the Bible Students and JW's. The fact there are witnesses combining the two doesn't mean there are no differences in doctrine. That just means those witnesses are conflicted.

You just said a mouth full. Does this mean Jesus was wrong to commission the apostles? Does this mean Jesus was wrong to appoint the 70 men? Do you “reject” the words in scripture about leaders? Did God’s commission stop just because you don’t like a certain group? Are other Christians following the letter of Christ instructions and God’s commands?

1 hour ago, Anna said:

For example the depiction of a Caucasian blue eyed, blonde, and beardless Jesus in "The Kingdom is at Hand" (1944). To us now, it seems unfathomable how this could have even happened, surely someone would have known that Jesus, as a middle eastern Jew, couldn't have looked like this: (He even has a 40's hair style!)

Can you provide how "exactly" Jesus looked, that I may be able to make the same claim. The  Org under the direction of JW's did make some changes in view from the early portraits and depictions of Jesus. Historical insight has Jesus seem a lot darker. This does not mean where Jesus was born weren't lighter skinned people.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Well, by this you telling us how "his feeling" about something, he put on paper and then, he or his friends, came to idea to spread around the world "his feeling" with help of religious publications in purpose to teach people about Words of God. ?? They (WT Society) claim how printing and publishing publications is for that purpose, to spread "God's word" around the globe to educate people .... with Rutherford's feelings and feelings of his friends ??!! 

By this, are you saying; you know how people felt back then to understand the inspirational message that was circulating back then? If Russell was speaking against “hellfire” as an inspirational message, how can that be applied if today’s message about hellfire if its well understood by many religious denominations, not to be seen as the Catholic Church once understood it.

Does your response conclude the same message can be applied today? If there is a modern witness that lays waste to such understanding, that person is following the same pattern as you.

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course! And because of that you are in the same group as many others who don't know much about WT history. Apologize, but your own recognition on this, disqualified you from jury of those who are able to recognize how good or poor is someone person's knowledge about WT history. :))

I would refer to the corrections I made with your understanding of the Org. History. I don't need such assistance to understand the Org's history in the correct way.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

I wondered  the same thing about 6 years ago, when just leaving the WT. Definitely, it can give a person a "strong headache"!    What I realized when it was pointed out to me, is that the answer is right in this set of scriptures.  Satan contrives the delusion, not God.  "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works."  God "sends" the delusion by allowing it to happen.  He allowed Satan to test Job's integrity, by removing the protective "hedge" around him.  Job 1:9-12   And, since Satan demands to sift each one of us as "wheat", God allows it.  Luke 22:31  

How can this not be applied to you or Srecko, Matthew and any other opposer? You have just answered yourself with the embodiment of bidding Satan's work.

Meaning, opposers here are their own worst nightmare.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

That is nice and praiseworthy . But, i guess how you would not make Religious Doctrine about your sense of hospitality.

I would say, neither did Rutherford. Just because he wrote how he felt doesn’t mean it was made to be a doctrine.

It was meant to be inspirational. The kind of difference not taken into account by anyone here. I suspect no one here has a good grasp of the Org history. I would say, only those that taunt and display “dishonesty” usually chime in to in other words, misunderstood person. But it doesn't surprise me at all.

On 9/29/2019 at 11:26 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

because Judge Rutherford showed lack of "familiarity" with Scripture too, when he made plans to build Beth-Sarim.

Perhaps if you become more familiar with the Watchtower history, you will find, when Rutherford was imprisoned by the behest of the Catholic Church, Bro. Rutherford developed a pulmonary problem in prison. His doctor urged him to live in a clearer climate. Many brothers that considered Rutherford not just an insightful person but a friend as well, built Beth-Sarim for Brother Rutherford. Not the Watchtower, NOT Rutherford.

Your speculation then, becomes impractical. Now if you are suggesting how Brother Rutherford personally "felt" if one day the ancient prophets would suddenly walk on this earth once again? He would offer his house to have them feel welcomed just as those in ancient times offered their homes to weary travelers, I would offer my home for the same reason.

You are correct. Known of the things you imply, apply to the Watchtower GB. I would suggest you look into your own “rotten fruits” before you speak of others.

Submitting endless copy/paste information doesn’t make your stance anymore intellectual. It just makes it more transparent and desperate.

If you consider, most Bibles; base the same basic concept. If you deny the words of scripture because you only rely on your own corrupt understanding, then you deny the words of God no matter how it is applied.

Yes you are. You are also lying, the GB are above us spiritual brothers. It’s people like you that distort that. It is your kind that elevate the GB as some kind of POPE. Then some of you use it as an excuse to suggest they are not in compliance with scripture. They elevate themselves. Dishonesty known only to well here.

 

NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: 13:17

17Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.

 

13:17 “Obey … submit” This is a PRESENT PASSIVE (A. T. Robertson lists it as a MIDDLE VOICE) IMPERATIVE and PRESENT ACTIVE IMPERATIVE. Although individuals are free in Christ we must yield ourselves to spiritual authority for growth and service (cf. v. 7; I Cor. 16:16; I Thess. 5:12–13).

This word of encouragement to submit to Christian leaders is much needed in our day of disrespect for authority of any kind, and an overemphasis on the rights and powers of the individual. God has placed some as leaders among His people. We honor them because of their call, training, commitment, and service. However, there is an opposite “ditch.” God’s calling has been abused by some authoritarian personalities. There must be a balance, a mutual respect, a co-operative spirit between God’s people and God’s leaders. All believers are called to be subject to one another out of respect for Christ (cf. Eph. 5:20).

Q. Do you, as members of the Governing Body, regard

43 yourselves as being appointed by Jehovah God or under the

44 capacity or authority of Jehovah God?

45 A. What we view ourselves, as fellow workers with our

46 brothers and sisters ‐ we have been given a responsibility

47 to guard or to be guardians of doctrine. So just the same.

 

The “Ditch” on this forum, it teaches “false” Doctrine by some authoritarian personalities.

This would mean exercising Bible understanding by staying away from such individuals. Provocation is the devil’s work, not God’s.