John 12.24to28

"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants,  by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life and by him you will endure a long time in the land that Jehovah swore to give to your forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
 
I wish all my brothers and sisters would benefit from the blessing rather than embrace the curse. I love the brothers and sisters. Even my brothers on the governing body and my brothers and sisters at the Bethels and those brothers serving as elders in the congregations and all those in the congregations.
 
"My brothers, if anyone among you is led astray from the truth and another turns him back, know that whoever turns a sinner back from the error of his way will save him from death and will cover a multitude of sins."
 
The members of the 144,000 are to be one united body with the Christ. We are to be close, interwoven, as one "city". Knowing that my own fellow body members are unclean and in danger - how could I keep silent? How could anyone keep silent in such a situation? It would be unpardonable!
 
"O my anguish, my anguish! 
I feel great pain in my very heart. 
My heart pounds within me. 
I cannot keep silent, 
For I have heard the sound of the horn, 
The alarm signal of war.  
Disaster after disaster has been reported, 
For the whole land has been destroyed.  
Suddenly my own tents are destroyed, 
In a moment my tent cloths.  
How long will I keep seeing the signal, 
Keep hearing the sound of the horn?"
 
Jehovah himself says:  
 
“For my people are foolish; 
They take no note of me.  
They are stupid sons, with no understanding. 
They are clever enough when it comes to doing bad, 
But they do not know how to do good.”
 
Maybe someone will hear what Jehovah is saying by means of His Holy Spirit and His Holy Word. Maybe someone will turn around. I hope and pray so. Jehovah hopes so even more. The ransom is great. May Jehovah be praised for his undeserved kindness and mercy toward us all.💖

It is not convenient to say "no blood fractions." But it is what is written. "Abstain from blood."
 
It is not convenient to say "show love to all." But it is what is written. "God is Love."
 
There are two really good quotes regarding this topic of spiritual cleanness in the video, "Jehovah's Witnesses-Faith in Action, Part 2: Let the Light Shine":
 
(at 35:52) Brother Stephen Lett says: "Sure, you could relax the standard and you could perhaps attract a lot more people. But Jehovah's never been primarily interested in numbers. But He's interested in quality of His worshippers. Only eight survived the Flood. It shows you Jehovah's thinking on, on numbers."
 
(at 36:09) Brother Anthony Morris says: "We will stick with the scriptures. We'll never water it down. A little leaven ferments the whole lump. This is clean. And when people come to the Kingdom Hall, we want them to feel confident that this is clean. Not just physically, but most importantly, spiritually clean."
 
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODOrgHistory/pub-ivfa2_x_VIDEO
 
The way the disfellowshipping doctrine is applied in the organization at present is unclean. It's not following what is written in God's Word. It is taking a few scriptures out of context and out of harmony with the rest of the Bible and apostatizing from what is written in a way that permits the existence of a clergy class with power to remove any who dare to stand up for what Jehovah says rather than bowing to men.
 
The way the acceptance of blood fractions is taught as if it is a conscience matter is unclean. It's not following what is written in God's Word. It is taking a few scriptures out of context and out of harmony with the rest of the Bible and apostatizing from what is written in a way that makes it easier for the corporate part of the organization to deal with lawsuits and makes it easier for the corporate part of the organization to get worldly governmental support.
 
By attempting to change God's laws on blood and love for fellow man, the governing body has attempted to change God's laws to suit their needs. Jehovah is not pleased with their disregard for His Word. You will have to know that they have sinned seriously against Jehovah when He allows the United Nations (during the first part of the great tribulation) to take away all their perceived "privileges".
 
Jehovah will clean His Name People. Praise Jehovah.

True. 
 
By attempting to change God's laws on blood and love for fellow man, the governing body has attempted to change God's laws to suit their needs.
 
Thank you for bringing that up, Allen.

Hi, @Space Merchant! Thank you for sharing all that. I think a lot of the misunderstanding is just semantics. I totally agree with you that the Bible teaches those bad practices don't belong in the church: homosexuality, immorality, any of the bad behaviors listed in the Bible that God condemns. I think the misunderstanding comes when the rank and file congregation members fail to train their own consciences and rely on some kind of leader within the church to make the decision for them who to associate with and who to shun. 
 
What ends up happening is that because of human imperfection, wicked people slip through the cracks of the in-church-justice-system and continue to degrade the flock, while at the same time any who misuse their authority within the church mislabel and shun many true worshippers who then become cut off from the fold unnecessarily. When Paul and John and Peter and Jesus were talking about "disfellowshipping", what they were talking about was not yet ritualized into a clergy position with power to excommunicate. It was also different than during the Mosaic Law times. Just as Jehovah said "the law would be written on their hearts" rather than on stone, Jehovah pours out the holy spirit and our Bible trained consciences are authorized by God to make the distinction between who is good association and who is bad association. 
 
If the Christians were still meeting in homes instead of church buildings owned by corporation type establishments, the householder could decide to not let in a person who was a known unrepentant sinner (let's say a man who called themselves a brother in Christ but was an actively practicing homosexual or fornicator or something like that) and then the flock would not be brought down. While in theory the elders are like the "householders", in reality they are more like businessmen than family members. It's different than how Jesus set the congregation up. The institutionalized methods of labeling and shunning are not in harmony with what the Christ taught, as can be seen by their fruits. If disfellowshipping as commonly practiced worked, then there would be no need for the Christ to come refine the flock. 
 
But it is clear, as you said, that Jesus will come and fix everything. We are wise to avoid close association with anyone who calls themselves a brother but who continues in gross sin. That is the true "disfellowshipping". It doesn't need a committee to call the shots. Paul and John and Timothy didn't make committees to throw out wrongdoers in the first century. They just took the lead in exercising their power of reason and stopped associating with those bad "brothers" who were fornicating or teaching lies and didn't let them give talks in the homes during meetings for worship. If the brothers turned around, there was no need for a committee to "reinstate" them. Everybody would just know. It's the institutionalization part of disfellowshipping that isn't scriptural, not the essence of protecting pure worship. The protection of pure worship is always worth fighting for. That is what we're all about, spiritual battle and the exaltation of true worship. God is Love. Thank you, @Space Merchant, for your obvious love for God and the congregation and righteousness.

(@EsADmf ...Good morning, Allen. How are Zackary and your other aliases and Legion today? Hope you are enjoying your coffee this morning.)
 
Another reason for the bloodguilt of the governing body, besides the antichrist disfellowshipping doctrine, is their bloodguilt in encouraging acceptance of blood fractions. The governing body brags about their HLC and HIS departments, men who promote acceptance of blood fractions as if it wasn't an abomination to God.
 
Those men are trampling upon the precious blood of the Christ and leading others into sin. When those men partake at the Memorial or say prayers over the emblems at the Memorial or give the talk at the Memorial, Jehovah isn't listening to them. Jehovah is disgusted with their dungy sacrifices that heap reproach on Jehovah's name and involve others in spiritual adultery.
 
"Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough? Clear away the old leaven so that you may be a new batch, inasmuch as you are free from ferment. For, indeed, Christ our Passover lamb has been sacrificed.  So, then, let us keep the festival, not with old leaven, nor with leaven of badness and wickedness, but with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people,  not meaning entirely with the sexually immoral people of this world or the greedy people or extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world.  But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.  For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside,  while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.""
 
It is not proper for men who lead others into sin to take the lead at the Memorial celebration.
 
Jehovah is sending Jesus to come set things straight. 
 
"Repent! The Kingdom of the Heavens is Drawing Near!"
 
Praise Jehovah.

"Therefore, whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty respecting the body and the blood of the Lord."
 
If you see a member of the governing body partaking this year while there is still a "disfellowshipping doctrine" in effect throughout the organization, then you will know that they are partaking unworthily and are guilty respecting the body and blood of the Lord.
 
"First let a man approve himself after scrutiny, and only then let him eat of the loaf and drink of the cup.  For the one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment against himself. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and quite a few are sleeping in death. But if we would discern what we ourselves are, we would not be judged. However, when we are judged, we are disciplined by Jehovah, so that we may not become condemned with the world."
 
God is Love, and those men taking the lead who claim to be anointed and yet trample on the precious blood of the Christ by saying his blood isn't good enough to show love to a specific "class" of people, (namely, whoever they label "disfellowshipped") those men on the governing body prove that they do not discern the body of Christ and are self-condemned.
 
"The one who says, “I have come to know him,” and yet does not observe his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in this person. But whoever does observe his word, in this person the love of God has truly been made perfect. By this we know that we are in union with him. The one who says he remains in union with him is himself under obligation to go on walking just as that one walked."
 
Jesus did not shun people. The governing body is leading the blind into a pit, because the governing body is blind. Anyone who partakes of the emblems while practicing or teaching the disfellowshipping doctrine is a lawless one and is self-condemned. 
 
Such men are spoken about in Jude as those who despise godly authority. God has authority to say who is clean and who is unclean. Jehovah God gave Jesus authority to judge lives. The men who take it upon themselves and presume to play gods by making judgments in opposition to what Jesus taught - those men are despising authority, the highest authority, and are self-condemned. Any of those men who do not repent of their brazen disrespect for the ransom will be destroyed on the day of judgment, as recorded in Jude:
 
"So, then, Jehovah knows how to rescue people of godly devotion out of trial, but to reserve unrighteous people to be destroyed on the day of judgment,  especially those who seek to defile the flesh of others and who despise authority. Daring and self-willed, they are not afraid to speak abusively of glorious ones, whereas angels, although they are greater in strength and power, do not bring against them an accusation in abusive terms, out of respect for Jehovah.  But these men, like unreasoning animals that act on instinct and are born to be caught and destroyed, speak abusively about things of which they are ignorant."
 
The governing body is ignorant about the Love of the Christ.
 
"They will suffer destruction brought on by their own destructive course, suffering harm as their reward for their own harmful course. They consider it pleasurable to indulge in luxurious living, even in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes who revel in their deceptive teachings while feasting together with you. Their eyes are full of adultery and are unable to desist from sin, and they entice unstable ones. They have a heart trained in greed. They are accursed children.  Abandoning the straight path, they have been led astray. They have followed the path of Baʹlaam the son of Beʹor, who loved the reward of wrongdoing, but was reproved for his own violation of what was right. A voiceless beast of burden speaking with a human voice hindered the prophet’s mad course."
 
The governing body serves for a profit, does not work secularly but lives on lakefront property with slaves to tend to their needs and millions to support their lifestyle. They train others to praise them and to obey them rather than God. They are guilty of spiritual adultery. They refuse to turn around.
 
"These are waterless springs and mists driven by a violent storm, and the blackest darkness has been reserved for them.  They make high-sounding statements that are empty. By appealing to the desires of the flesh and with acts of brazen conduct, they entice people who have just escaped from those who live in error.  While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for if anyone is overcome by someone, he is his slave."
 
Rather than training Jehovah's Witnesses to be slaves of God, the governing body has taught the people to be slaves of the governing body, swallowing down false doctrines left and right.
 
"Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first.  It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received.  What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”"
 
People come out of the world, become Jehovah's Witnesses, and then end up being Less Loving than before they came in the truth. In what way? They shun their own worldly family members as being "unclean" and they shun their spiritual family members who get labelled "unworthy of love" and are considered "disfellowshipped" according to the governing body.
 
The governing body have acted as antichrists, and they have led millions to follow them in this horrid reproach on the Christ. During the Memorial, millions will come together and claim to love Jesus and yet they shun their brothers. Jehovah is not impressed. Jehovah's name has been greatly reproached, but Jesus is coming to remedy the situation. The attack by the UN on false religion will start at Jehovah's organization, Jehovah's Witnesses. Jehovah will refine His organization for the sake of His Holy Name. He will remove the reproach from His Name, and cleanse His Name People. Praise Jehovah.

@BroRando, Yes, soon false religion will be destroyed. And the sealing process as described in Revelation is referring to the entire group of 144,000 as a whole, in other words, those verses depict when that sealing is finished for the entire group.
 
But the verses in Hosea about "2 days, three" are not applied to the anointed in context. The context does not show that, and there are no other scriptures to support that conclusion from that verse in Hosea. 
 
Additionally, the verse at Peter about "a thousand years are as a day" are not a formula to be applied in other places. There is no scriptural support for that. (Otherwise people could say the Floodwaters with the 40 days meant 40000 prophetic years or the 1000 years of the millennial reign is actually only 1 day or something like that.) The Bible is its own interpreter, and if it doesn't say something is prophetic, then it's not prophetic.
 
The verse in Peter is saying time is relative. Sometimes a day seems really, really, really long when you are getting tortured. Sometimes time flies by so quickly when we are really busy. In context, Peter was not giving a formula for figuring prophecy. He was comforting us and saying, "hang in there - Jehovah hasn't forgotten about you."
 
Jesus said no man would know the day or the hour the kingdom took power. That blows "the kingdom came in 1914" doctrine right out of the water. 
 
It is good to be on the watch. It is good to be eagerly waiting for the Master. We just have to be careful not to fall prey to the tricks of the Devil while we are waiting. Russell and Storrs fell prey to the numerology trick, and as a result they ended up misleading others who are now asleep to the time we are in. The Kingdom of the Heavens is near, and Jesus' ride on the white horse will make a lot of changes. We need to be awake.
 
(I really like the photo you used for your profile picture, @BroRando. I think it's one of the most lovely ones on here. Thank you for caring so much about the flock and for loving Bible prophecy.)

Hi, @BroRando, interesting topic. The math part of it doesn't quite seem to add up, but, yes, this that you said about the other prophecies connected to it...
 
 
The Bible shows that the timing of the sealing of the anointed is tied in with an event that we can see, the destruction of false religion:
 
"After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.  And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”"
 
The angels are "exercising a restraint" over the winds of destruction on false religion. We will know the anointed are all sealed when we see the attack on false religion. Paul also talked about that time in Second Thessalonians:
 
"And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time."
 
The "he" is the lawless one.
 
The context of 2 Thessalonians shows that some religious people would be saying "the day of Jehovah is here" (like those who say "Jesus took the throne in 1914) but that their pronouncement is apostate.
 
"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come" (the day of Jehovah beginning with Jesus' enthronement)  "unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.  He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."
 
The "man of lawlessness" cannot mean Christendom, because they have never said "the day of Jehovah is here" in a way that's actually fooled everybody. The current governing body has claimed to make decrees in God's name, and lives/is seated in "the House of God" namely Bethel ("Bethel means the House of God" there's even a Caleb and Sophia song about it...)
 
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception..."
 
The leaders of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses have deceived millions of people into thinking "the day of Jehovah" came in 1914. Satan used powerful works and lying signs to make it seem like it came true. War. Pestilence. (He is the ruler of the world, it's no big deal for him to do those things.)
 
Jesus is revealing these things by the word of his mouth.
 
"Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth..."
 
Jesus said he would give us words to speak by means of Jehovah's spirit. When we speak in harmony with truth, when we bear witness to truth, we are cooperating with the Source of that spirit.
 
Anyway, since we are seeing the lawless one revealed, we know the anointed must be sealed and it is close to the time when false religion will be destroyed. Praise Jehovah.
 
(PS I finally learned how to change the font so it's not so big! Sorry I'm such a slow learner😬...better late than never they say😊)

(When Harold King was isolated, he talked a lot. Nobody talked back to him, but he still kept talking. I like Harold King.)
 
"Is it the time for you to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?"
 
The studios and Bethels and Kingdom Halls and museums are lovely. But they are not the "houses" that Jehovah asked the shepherds to build. "Shepherd my little sheep" was the assignment. "Build up the congregation" was the assignment.
 
The sheep have been neglected and many have been abused and flung on every high mountain, left out to be taken advantage of by others, falling prey to falsehoods of scavengers in all these little "apostate" groups all over the place. If the sheep were not "shunned" then they wouldn't be falling prey to these other groups. It's just like Jesus said about divorce, "I say to you that everyone divorcing his wife, except on account of sexual immorality, makes her a subject for adultery." A woman in that day might not have any other choice but to remarry in order to survive, and yet since the first divorce was unscriptural, her new marriage would make her a fornicator. Disfellowshipping is like divorce. Since people are designed to associate with others (sheep are social creatures) they have a natural need for association. By shunning/disfellowshipping, bad shepherds push the little sheep from the fold, away where on the outside they gravitate to other unhealthy groups and end up getting poisoned with bad association or taken advantage of by wolves in sheeps clothing on the outside.
 
There are wolves in the congregation and wolves outside the congregation. Jesus is coming to gather all the little sheep back to the fold and to put the wolves out of business.
 
"For the vision is yet for its appointed time, 
And it is rushing toward its end, and it will not lie.  
Even if it should delay, keep in expectation of it! 
For it will without fail come true. 
It will not be late! 
Look at the one who is proud; 
He is not upright within himself.  
But the righteous one will live by his faithfulness."
 
"For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God."
 
Jehovah will make an accounting against the abusive and neglectful governing body and any elders who imitate the abuse and neglect of the governing body. Jehovah said so, and Jehovah's words always come true.
 
"The word of Jehovah again came to me, saying:  
 
“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy, and say to the shepherds, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: 
 
“Woe to the shepherds of Israel, who have been feeding themselves! Is it not the flock that the shepherds should feed?  You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, and you slaughter the fattest animal, but you do not feed the flock.  You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny.  So they were scattered because there was no shepherd; they were scattered and became food for every wild beast of the field.  My sheep were straying on all the mountains and on every high hill; my sheep were scattered over all the surface of the earth, with no one searching for them or seeking to find them.
 
“‘“Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah:  
 
‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “because my sheep have become prey, food for every wild beast of the field, for there was no shepherd, and my shepherds did not search for my sheep; rather, they kept feeding themselves and did not feed my sheep,”’ therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah.  This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: 
 
‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep, and the shepherds will no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them.’”
 
“‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: 
 
“Here I am, and I myself will search for my sheep, and I will care for them.  I will care for my sheep like a shepherd who has found his scattered sheep and is feeding them. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered in the day of clouds and thick gloom.  I will bring them out from the peoples and collect them together from the lands and bring them into their land and feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams and by all the dwelling places of the land.  In a good pasture I will feed them, and the land where they graze will be on Israel’s high mountains. They will lie down there in a good grazing land, and they will feed on choice pastures on the mountains of Israel.” 
 
“‘“I myself will feed my sheep, and I myself will make them lie down,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.  
 
“The lost one I will search for, the stray I will bring back, the injured I will bandage, and the weak I will strengthen; but the fat one and the strong one I will annihilate. I will feed that one with judgment.” 
 
“‘As for you, my sheep, this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: 
 
“I am about to judge between one sheep and another sheep, between the rams and the male goats.  Is it not enough for you to feed on the very best pastures? Must you also trample the rest of your pastures with your feet? And after drinking the clearest water, must you foul the water by stamping with your feet?  Should my sheep now feed on the pasture trampled by your feet and drink the water befouled by the stamping of your feet?” 
 
“‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says to them: 
 
“Here I am, and I myself will judge between a fat sheep and a lean sheep,  for with your flank and shoulder you kept pushing, and with your horns you kept shoving all the sick ones until you had scattered them abroad. And I will save my sheep, and they will no longer become something to prey upon; and I will judge between a sheep and a sheep.  I will raise up one shepherd over them, my servant David, and he will feed them. He himself will feed them and become their shepherd.  And I, Jehovah, will become their God, and my servant David a chieftain among them. I myself, Jehovah, have spoken. 
 
“‘“And I will make a covenant of peace with them, and I will rid the land of vicious wild beasts, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the forests.  I will make them and the area around my hill a blessing, and I will cause the rain to fall at the proper time. Blessings will pour down like the rains.  The trees of the field will yield their fruit, and the soil will give its produce, and they will dwell securely on the land. And they will have to know that I am Jehovah when I break their yoke bars and rescue them from those who enslaved them.  They will no longer become something for the nations to prey upon, and the wild beasts of the earth will not devour them, and they will dwell in security, with no one to make them afraid. 
 
“‘“I will establish for them a plantation of fame, and they will no longer die from famine in the land, and they will no longer be humiliated by the nations.  ‘Then they will have to know that I, Jehovah their God, am with them and that they, the house of Israel, are my people,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”’ 
 
“‘As for you, my sheep, the sheep that I care for, you are but men, and I am your God,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”
 
The time is near. Praise Jehovah.
 
(Interesting thing about Harold King - he was actually more free than his captors, those who isolated him. Kind of funny how that works.)

Story time
 
Once upon a time, a father had to go on a work trip. He left the kids with a trusted acquaintance. While the father was away, the acquaintance corrupted himself and started to abuse the children. The acquaintance built a studio out back thinking the father would be so happy he wouldn't care about the abuse. What do you think the father did when he returned and found out what happened to the children? Will he care about the new studio?
 
(The "father" is like Jesus. The "kids" are like the congregation members. The "acquaintance" is like those currently taking the lead in the organization.)
 
Once upon a time, a father had twelve children. He went on a work trip. While he was away, the six oldest of the kids presumptuously and incorrectly bragged about how much their father loved them most because they went to fancy schools and only wore fancy clothes. Those kids picked on their younger siblings and drove them out of the home while the father was away. When the father was driving home after the trip, he saw his youngest six kids abandoned and abused and passed out and half starved along the side of the road. What will the father do when he returns home? Will he agree with the conclusions of the six older kids and leave the younger ones for dead?
 
(The "father" is like Jehovah. The "kids" are all humans. The six oldest are like those who think they're better than everyone else and look down on the others. The six youngest are like those who are treated harshly or disrespected and neglected by ones who are fancy in their own eyes.)
 
Once upon a time, a father hired a babysitter while he went away on a work trip. The babysitter told the children if they were naughty she wouldn't talk to them or help them. When the kids went to sleep at night, she had her boyfriend over, and the kids woke up to say "dad said not to do that!" She locked the kids in their room and ignored them. The father came home early unexpectedly, that very night. What will he do to the babysitter?
 
(The "father" is like Jehovah and Jesus. The "babysitter" is like some of those taking the lead in the organization. They have been very, very naughty.)
 
What time is it? It is time for the father to come home. The kids will be taken care of. The naughty ones will be removed. Jesus is going to fix everything. Jehovah knows who His real kids are, and who are fakers. Praise Jehovah.

No time to be a @xero Hero today? No worries. I'll give it a try...
 
"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, before you today we exhibit overwhelming evidence that the great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long. Although the so-called "Faithful and Discreet Slave" says "we don't know how long the great tribulation will be", Jesus has revealed the length of the great tribulation to faithful lowly ones by means of the helper, the holy spirit, just as he foretold. The great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long - it's as clear as day. The indisputable facts are, the current governing body is in the dark as to Jehovah's timetable. All the things written about the lawless one in the scriptures will come true. The governing body is the lawless one who have seated themselves as gods in the House of God. Jesus will remove them at the appointed time. Praise Jehovah."

(Hey, @xero, are you willing to help a sister out?
 
I'm trying to be more organized in what is posted, hence the outline part, but I don't have the gift of making it short or good transitions. I've been working on applying your advice. But if you just want to, I know you can write a really succinct summary of this first post on this thread like you did on the other one. You wrote it so perfectly last time. 
 
I would be much obliged. Pleeeeeease?🙏😬)

Bible Verses on Timing and What They Mean
 
I. Three and a half years
A. "A time, times, and half a time" (Daniel 7:25)
B. "An appointed time, appointed times, and half a time" (Daniel 12:7)
C. "The appointed times" (Luke 21:24)
D. "A time and times and half a time" (Revelation 12:14)
E. "42 months" (Revelation 13:5)
 
II. Days
A. "2,300 evenings and mornings" (Daniel 8:14)
B. "1,260 days" (Revelation 12:6)
C. "1,290 days" (Daniel 12:11)
D. "1,335 days" (Daniel 12:12)
 
The Bible shows that the great tribulation will last 3 1/2 years.
 
Daniel 7:25 in context goes through the march of some world powers. The UN is the last beast. (The US/UK breathe life into the UN. The UN is an extension of the US/UK in this vision.) 
 
"He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time." 
 
The UN will oppress Jehovah's people and it will be 3 1/2 years.
 
Daniel 12:7 in context while Russian president (King of North) cornered ("comes all the way to his end and there is no helper for him"), Michael stands up (Jesus finally receives kingdom in heaven) and great tribulation begins. 
 
""How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.”" 
 
Jehovah's organization will be "dashed to pieces" and there will be three and a half years.
 
Luke 21:24 context is the time of the end: 
 
"...because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled...For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people.  And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." 
 
The appointed times that the UN (the nations) will trample on Jehovah's organization/people will be during the great tribulation. Jesus was talking about during the tribulation.
 
Revelation 12:14 shows what the Devil does after he is finally cast down by Michael: 
 
"Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.  But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent." 
 
The "male child" represents the completed sealed anointed, who will rule in the kingdom with Christ. They are like a "child" in that they are still in weak human form, but they are heirs who have conquered since they are now sealed. The Devil harasses them for 3 1/2 years of the tribulation, but the angels help them while in that figurative "wilderness" time.
 
Revelation 13:5 is talking about the UN. 
 
"It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation." 
 
42 months is 3 1/2 years. 
 
Daniel 8:14 in context shows how the initial part of the persecution leads to a refining of God's organization. 
 
"And I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one speaking: “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?”  So he said to me: “Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.”" 
 
2,300 evenings and mornings equals 1,150 evenings plus 1,150 mornings. That is the same as 1,150 days. (1 evening plus 1 morning equals 1 day.) By 1,150 days after the great tribulation starts, the organization will have been refined.
 
Revelation 12:6 context, after anointed are all sealed the kingdom is "born" but since anointed still on earth they are weak like child. Angels protect them (child figuratively "snatched away to God and to his throne") but kid still in wilderness with woman (still in this world, angels helping.) 
 
"And she gave birth to a son, a male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away to God and to his throne.  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days." 
 
A specific event happens at the 1,260th day from the beginning of the great tribulation.
 
Daniel 12:11 another event happens at the 1,290th day from the start of the great tribulation: 
 
"And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days."
 
Daniel 12:12 another event happens at the 1,335th day from the start of the great tribulation: 
 
"Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!"
 
Conclusion: The great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long. There will be several noteworthy events at specific times during that period.
 
"...there is a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets...the Revealer of secrets has made known to you what is to happen."
 
Praise Jehovah.

There are 407 verses in the NWT Bible that mention blood. 
 
Can you find even one that supports the "accepting blood fractions are a conscience matter" statement?
 
(I can't. Because accepting blood fractions is unclean and clearly apostasy and standing away from Jehovah God.)

(It seems some of the prior posts are missing, as well as Mr. Moise. I will do my best to fill in the blanks for some of the ones that were more recent and tag whoever I can remember was in the conversation, please forgive me if I inadvertently forgot to tag someone...)
 
If the governing body are the "Faithful And Discreet Slave" and if they are the "one channel" and if they are anointed with Jehovah's holy spirit, then they should know that taking in any blood fractions  form is a sin for a true Christian.
 
They are not faithful to what the Bible teaches. They are not discreet, since they are not warning the flock. If they are anointed, then they have gravely grieved the holy spirit so badly that they can't see basic Bible truths at present.
 
They are not the "one channel" for teaching. Jesus said the holy spirit is the "channel" used by God, the means to teach. When John said, "the anointing is teaching you" he was not talking to just David Splane, Sam Herd, Gage Fleegle, Jeffrey Winder, Gerrit Losch, Mark Anderson, Ken Cook, and Stephen Lett. Those guys weren't even born yet when John wrote those words.
 
The governing body have apostatized from the Bible. Then they claim others are apostates. It's the oldest trick in the book. The Pharisees did the same thing.
 
Jehovah is merciful, but He will make an accounting. The ransom is enough for whoever is willing to repent. Hopefully those guys have not sinned by blaspheming the holy spirit. I can't read hearts so I don't know what their problem is, but I do know for a fact that the holy spirit makes clear knowingly accepting ANY FORM OF BLOOD FRACTION is an abomination to God, and for those men on the current governing body to claim otherwise just shows me they are frauds.
 
It is because of such sins that the wrath of God is coming. Those men are reproaching Jehovah's holy name, and leading others into the same sin. Jehovah will not keep silent forever. You will have to know that He is Jehovah and that those men treated him disrespectfully, just like happened to Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.
 
@Anna @Arauna @Pudgy @TrueTomHarley @Amidstheroses @xero @Space Merchant @Mankeptforunnaturalporpoises

"So I call you to witness this very day that I am clean from the blood of all men..."
 
Since this thread is about "clean vs unclean" and we have already pounded the disfellowshipping topic into the pavement, maybe we can switch gears and talk about blood for awhile.
 
The first century governing body made clear that true worship was not to be difficult and restricted by fancy doctrines and unnecessary burdens.
 
"So the apostles and the elders gathered together to look into this matter.  After much intense discussion had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: “Men, brothers, you well know that from early days God made the choice among you that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe.  And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also.  And he made no distinction at all between us and them, but purified their hearts by faith.  So why are you now making a test of God by imposing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing?  On the contrary, we have faith that we are saved through the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus in the same way that they are.”"
 
It wasn't necessary to have "publisher" or "non-publisher" distinctions. It wasn't necessary to go over questions for baptism. (Cornelius and his household received holy spirit before they were baptized. They didn't go over any questions. Back then, "Bible studies" didn't even have a copy of the Bible, it wasn't finished being written yet. But they still "qualified" for baptism.)
 
Anyway, the list of proper protocol for Christians was not long enough to need another book. Here is what the first century governing body concluded:
 
"Therefore, my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood."
 
The new Christians were not required to get circumcised. They were not required to meet with elders and go over a hundred questions on several occasions. They didn't have to study a book or go out in field service or raise their hands to comment. They didn't even have to own a tie. The requirement for them was this: abstain from blood and sexual immorality. 
 
Jehovah required blood be poured on the ground - thrown away. Any blood that is not thrown away is still blood. Even if it's a fraction.
 
This is the most simple command, and yet it is completely disregarded at present by those who say "accepting blood fractions is a conscience matter". It's not a conscience matter according to the Bible. It's as clear as day that any blood fraction is totally unacceptable. 
 
Knowingly and willingly putting any blood fraction in your body is grieving God's holy spirit and is an act of brazen disobedience. 
 
Because the current governing body has disregarded this clear counsel from God's Word, they have apostatized and become lawless ones in this area as well. They have misled the flock and as a result the sheep have greatly sinned against Jehovah.

Regarding what is clean and unclean, a summary of these things was sent to Bethel. (Many people write to Bethel all the time. Over the years, Jehovah has moved many faithful ones to write to Bethel to share with the brothers what is clearly written in God's Word. Jehovah loves those brothers at Bethel, and that's why He keeps sending his servants to warn them of what is coming via the UN.)

Hi, @Space Merchant, my brother! I hope you have been well.🙂
 
I am so glad you responded, because I know you have a ton of knowledge about the details of the early church history.
 
From what you've studied, doesn't it appear that in the history of Christianity, there have often been very sincere lovers of God who have taken part in "apostate" practices, not out of malice or desire to deceive, but just because they didn't know any better?
 
If "apostasy" is defined as "standing away from true worship" then in reality so many things done even by the faithful ones in the Old Testament were "apostasy".
 
Jesus told us that a marriage should be between one man and one woman, and yet Jacob/Israel had several wives, as did David, who was also a man desirable to Jehovah's heart.
 
At times men who were approved by Jehovah also permitted worship on the high places. There were real Christians who loved God and yet for years believed there was a Trinity (or who still believe it). In the early modern day history of Jehovah's Witnesses, they celebrated Christmas and used the cross, went to war. There are so many different forms of "apostasy". If we were to shun every person who calls themself a brother but is guilty of apostasy, then we wouldn't be talking to anybody in the congregation.
 
Until everyone is perfect, we will all be "apostasizing" in the sense that we are all falling short of perfect true worship. It is only the ransom that makes our worship acceptable, that righteousness from faith, that undeserved kindness. Abraham was declared righteous by faith, not by perfection. The Jews couldn't be perfect in the Law. It's not possible for imperfect people to follow the perfect law. That's why we have the ransom.
 
The early church fathers were doing the best they could, but they were imperfect, and just as Jesus and the apostles foretold, unholy traditions crept in right away. 
 
Yes, a business can fire an employee, yes, an organization can expel someone, but the congregation is to be a family. Just as the Mosaic Law allowed for divorce but later Jesus said it was a concession for their hardheartedness, so today. The whole excommunication/disfellowshipping is similar to what is done in a business, not a family. Jehovah hates a divorcing/disfellowshipping.
 
The Mosaic Law had expelling because the elders then also had to be judges and the secular law authorities. But that is not the way in the Christian congregation. The Mosaic Law also allowed the Israelites to kill Canaanites because the Israelites were Jehovah's instrument to clean out the land of wrongdoing. But that is not the way in the Christian congregation. Jesus is the one given authority to cast out wrongdoers completely. In the meantime, Christians are admonished to exercise their Bible trained conscience and apply the counsel to not hang out with wrongdoers. This application of the Bible counsel is not given to a committee. It is for the individual Christian.
 
Matthew chapter 18 was not directed just to the older men. In the context, we see that Jesus called a young child to him. If a young child was there, surely the mother was too. All Christians are to apply the counsel at Matthew 18, and the words "go to the congregation" do not mean "just tell a committee of elders".
 
Jehovah God directly evicted Adam and Eve. Jehovah executed Korah, Dathan, and Abiram directly. Jehovah directly gave Miraim leprosy. Jehovah has the right to do certain things that we don't. Adam and Eve didn't have the right to eat from that one fruit tree in the garden, but they did it anyway. There were repercussions. They reaped what they sowed. The modern-day disfellowshipping/excommunication is the same in that those taking the lead are taking from the tree that doesn't belong to them. They are reaping what they have sown, and soon they will also reap discipline directly from Jehovah.
 
As you said, Diotrephes tried to expel others. The whole current arrangement of disfellowshipping/excommunication is based on Diotrephes' way. 
 
Paul and John kept the congregation clean in the right way. They appealed to individual Christians to exercise their conscience and stop associating with those who were doing bad. They did not put in place any committees. Each Christian must use his own conscience.
 
John's words "don't say a greeting" must be taken in harmony with Jesus' actions. Jesus talked to sinners all the time. John's words are telling us not to go along with wrongdoing as if it's okay.
 
Jesus example teaches us. He teaches us. He is the way. If he wanted us to have committees, he would have told us. He didn't. He told us to love and to avoid the leaven of the Pharisees. The Bible is clear that the Pharisees were the ones who shunned. And the early church fathers were influenced by many of the Pharisaical traditions. It doesn't mean the church fathers were bad or not Christians. It just means they did what Paul and John and Peter and Jesus foretold would happen. 
 
Jesus is going to fix it. Won't it be so nice, @SpaceMerchant, when all of this divisions/doctrines are cleared away and the light shines so bright, we can just enjoy the peace of the entire family of faith!💖

Hi, @BroRando, interesting topic. The math part of it doesn't quite seem to add up, but, yes, this that you said about the other prophecies connected to it...
 
 
The Bible shows that the timing of the sealing of the anointed is tied in with an event that we can see, the destruction of false religion:
 
"After this I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, so that no wind could blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree.  And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrise, having a seal of the living God; and he called with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.”"
 
The angels are "exercising a restraint" over the winds of destruction on false religion. We will know the anointed are all sealed when we see the attack on false religion. Paul also talked about that time in Second Thessalonians:
 
"And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time."
 
The "he" is the lawless one.
 
The context of 2 Thessalonians shows that some religious people would be saying "the day of Jehovah is here" (like those who say "Jesus took the throne in 1914) but that their pronouncement is apostate.
 
"Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come" (the day of Jehovah beginning with Jesus' enthronement)  "unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.  He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god."
 
The "man of lawlessness" cannot mean Christendom, because they have never said "the day of Jehovah is here" in a way that's actually fooled everybody. The current governing body has claimed to make decrees in God's name, and lives/is seated in "the House of God" namely Bethel ("Bethel means the House of God" there's even a Caleb and Sophia song about it...)
 
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception..."
 
The leaders of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses have deceived millions of people into thinking "the day of Jehovah" came in 1914. Satan used powerful works and lying signs to make it seem like it came true. War. Pestilence. (He is the ruler of the world, it's no big deal for him to do those things.)
 
Jesus is revealing these things by the word of his mouth.
 
"Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth..."
 
Jesus said he would give us words to speak by means of Jehovah's spirit. When we speak in harmony with truth, when we bear witness to truth, we are cooperating with the Source of that spirit.
 
Anyway, since we are seeing the lawless one revealed, we know the anointed must be sealed and it is close to the time when false religion will be destroyed. Praise Jehovah.
 
(PS I finally learned how to change the font so it's not so big! Sorry I'm such a slow learner😬...better late than never they say😊)

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