Disfellowshipping's Modern Origins

[John 12.24to28]

A. Sources for Disfellowshipping Doctrine

I. The Didache (an apocryphal book)

II. The Catholic Church

III. The New World Translation Committee 

 

B. What the Bible Actually Teaches

I. Matthew 18:15-17

II. 1 Corinthians 5:1-13

III. 2 John 10

IV. Letters to Timothy

 

From Chapter 15 of the Didache "But to anyone that acts amiss against another, let no one speak, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents."

 

https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

 

"Origin of Excommunication

The process of church discipline and exclusion from the Church is an ancient practice, dating back to the early days of Christianity. In 1 Corinthians 5:1-13, St. Paul famously instructs the Church in Corinth to remove a member who had committed a serious offense. In Matthew 18:15-17, Jesus outlines a process of church discipline that culminates with the exclusion of members who refuse to repent. This early excommunication is seen as a form of discipline and correction, meant to humble the offending members and lead them to repentance."

 

https://study.com/academy/lesson/excommunication-catholic-church-origin-offenses-examples.html

 

Disfellowshipping was not part of the Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine during the early days of the Awake! magazine. ("Are You Excommunicated?" Awake 1946, pages 26-27)

 

https://archive.org/details/1947Awake/page/n25/mode/2up

 

Fred Franz had a history in religious studies that influenced his beliefs. Some of those religious studies involved the apostate "church fathers". When Fred Franz and the other translators worked on the New World Translation, they shaped New Testament texts to support those apostate beliefs on disfellowshipping rather than reflect the original Greek.

 

Matthew 18:15-17 in the original language says "go to the congregation" meaning all the brothers, not just the "elders". There is a different word for "elders" and that's not the word used in Matthew 18. It specifically means the entire congregation. If the whole congregation knows about the serious sins of one member, then the individual congregation members can exercise their conscience to limit association with someone. Convening a judicial committee or a giving a label "disfellowshipped" is unnecessary and not scriptural.

 

1 Corinthians 5 in context the Christians worshipped in homes. They would eat the Memorial meal together in the home. When it says "not even eating" it is including eating the Memorial emblems, the Lord's Evening Meal. The owner of the house should know better than to invite over for partaking of the emblems a brazen unrepentant fornicator who is sleeping with his dad's wife. That is the context of Paul's words. The homeowner should know better than to keep company with brazen unrepentant wrongdoers for worship in their home. Paul said they shouldn't let him in as long as he was still doing the bad sin. Once the man repented, he came back. There was no "silent treatment period" where he had to attend without talking or meet with a committee. Everybody knew when he cut off the relationship with his dad's wife.

 

2 John 10 in original Greek doesn't say "don't say a greeting" it means "don't encourage someone to keep sinning."

 

Paul's letters to Timothy about "handing them over to Satan for discipline" also included the words "instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will." In order to instruct with mildness, the wrongdoer would have to be talked to and communicated with, not completely ignored as if they were dead.

 

(The word "Disfellowshipping" is not in the Bible.) Jesus came to save what was lost. God is Love. Praise Jah.

[Moise Racette]

Couldn't stay away I see Audrey. More misinformation to pass on, huh!

Read the definition of "DIS" as I posted. 

The bible doesn't contradict itself as you have manipulated it to. So, no! The "word" disfellowship" doesn't appear in scripture. Does that mean a true Christian should lose their integrity and not follow scripture just because a sinner doesn't find a certain word in the bible, rather than accept its context and intent?

Should Christians follow the words of God, or the words of Audrey Tripp?

[John 12.24to28]

Who am I to withhold the simple pleasure of laughter from my brother?

 

On 3/3/2023 at 11:30 AM, Moise Racette said:

Keep them coming, I'm having a good laugh with my coffee. 😂

On 3/6/2023 at 12:42 PM, Moise Racette said:

But, don't stop posting...I need a good pick me up every morning. Don't worry about what people have to say.

 

Okay, I will take your advice on that one.

 

59 minutes ago, Moise Racette said:

So, no! The "word" disfellowship" doesn't appear in scripture.

 

Not even once.

 

The word "love" appears in the New World Translation 561 times.

 

59 minutes ago, Moise Racette said:

Should Christians follow the words of God

 

You yourself are saying it. 

 

Amen. Follow the Word of God. "God is Love." Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus showed what Love looks like. Jesus did not disfellowship even one person while he was on earth. He talked to everybody, even wicked people. Jesus talked to sinners, even those shunned by the elders, even gross sinners. Follow the Word. 

 

The disfellowshipping doctrine is not loving. Here is what love is:

 

"Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous. It does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails."💖

[John 12.24to28]

I. Greek influence on early apostate Christians

II. Disfellowshipping is a form of Ostracism from Greek culture

III. Jesus did not adhere to apostate Greek philosophies

 

(From "Mankind's Search for God" chap. 3 pp. 54-55 par. 25 Common Threads in Mythology)

"The Greek mythology of the soul went on to influence the Roman concept, and the Greek philosophers, such as Plato (about 427-347 B.C.E.), strongly influenced early apostate Christian thinkers who accepted the immortal soul teaching into their doctrine, even though it had no Biblical basis."

 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101990035#h=32

 

Just as Greek philosophy influenced religious ideas regarding the soul, so Greek philosophy also influenced congregation doctrines of the early apostate Christian thinkers.

 

"os·tra·cism

/ˈästrəˌsiz(ə)m/

noun

noun: ostracism

(1) exclusion from a society or group."the family suffered social ostracism"  

Similar: exclusion, rejection, repudiation, shunning, spurning, the cold shoulder, cold-shouldering, boycotting, blackballing, blacklisting, snubbing, avoidance, barring, banishment, exile, expulsion, disfellowship, excommunication

Opposite: acceptance, welcome

(2) (in ancient Greece) temporary banishment from a city by popular vote." (Dictionary, Oxford Languages)

 

"Ostracism was crucially different from Athenian law at the time; there was no charge and no defense could be mounted by the person expelled. The two stages of the procedure ran in the reverse order from that used under almost any trial system—it is as if a jury were first asked "Do you want to find someone guilty?", and subsequently asked "Whom do you wish to accuse?". The judicial framework is perhaps the institution's most peculiar feature: it can take place at most once a year, and only for one person. It resembles the Greek pharmakos or scapegoat—though in contrast, pharmakos generally ejected a lowly member of the community.[13]

A further distinction between these two modes (and not obvious from a modern perspective) is that ostracism was an automatic procedure that required no initiative from any individual, with the vote simply occurring on the wish of the electorate—a diffuse exercise of power. By contrast, an Athenian trial needed the initiative of a particular citizen-prosecutor. While prosecution often led to a counterattack (or was a counterattack itself), no such response was possible in the case of ostracism as responsibility lay with the polity as a whole. In contrast to a trial, ostracism generally reduced political tension rather than increased it."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism

 

The Pharisaical Jews were tossing people out of the synagogue while Jesus was on earth, ostracizing them. 

 

They led the formerly blind man to the Pharisees...And again they said to the blind man: “What do you say about him, since it was your eyes that he opened?” The man said: “He is a prophet.” However, the Jews did not believe that he had been blind and had gained sight, until they called the parents of the man who could now see.  And they asked them: “Is this your son who you say was born blind? How, then, does he now see?”  His parents answered: “We know that this is our son and that he was born blind. But how it is that he now sees, we do not know; or who opened his eyes, we do not know. Ask him. He is of age. He must speak for himself.”  His parents said these things because they were in fear of the Jews, for the Jews had already come to an agreement that if anyone acknowledged him as Christ, that person should be expelled from the synagogue... The man answered them: “This is certainly amazing, that you do not know where he is from, and yet he opened my eyes...If this man were not from God, he could do nothing at all.”  In answer they said to him: “You were altogether born in sin, and yet are you teaching us?” And they threw him out! Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and on finding him, he said: “Are you putting faith in the Son of man?”  The man answered: “And who is he, sir, so that I may put faith in him?”  Jesus said to him: “You have seen him, and in fact, he is the one speaking with you."

 

People feared disfellowshipping. When honest-hearted ones obeyed God, they were sometimes disfellowshipped. Jesus spoke with the man the elders disfellowshipped.

 

"Now one of the Pharisees kept asking him to dine with him. So he entered the house of the Pharisee and reclined at the table. And look! a woman who was known in the city to be a sinner learned that he was dining in the house of the Pharisee, and she brought an alabaster jar of perfumed oil...Seeing this, the Pharisee who had invited him said to himself: “If this man were really a prophet, he would know who and what kind of woman it is who is touching him, that she is a sinner.”...With that he turned to the woman and said to Simon: “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet. But this woman wet my feet with her tears and wiped them off with her hair.  You gave me no kiss, but this woman, from the hour that I came in, did not stop tenderly kissing my feet.  You did not pour oil on my head, but this woman poured perfumed oil on my feet.  Because of this, I tell you, her sins, many though they are, are forgiven, because she loved much. But the one who is forgiven little, loves little.”  Then he said to her: “Your sins are forgiven.”  Those reclining at the table with him started to say among themselves: “Who is this man who even forgives sins?”  But he said to the woman: “Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

 

The elders had written the woman off as one to be spurned, given the cold shoulder, shunned. Jesus talked to her. Compassionately. Now she's in the Bible as an example for us to imitate. "She loves much." The one who is forgiven much loves much. (We are all forgiven much.)

 

As far as eating with sinners goes..."Now a man named Zac·chaeʹus was there; he was a chief tax collector, and he was rich...Now when Jesus got to the place, he looked up and said to him: “Zac·chaeʹus, hurry and get down, for today I must stay in your house.”  With that he hurried down and joyfully welcomed him as a guest.  When they saw this, they were all muttering: “He went as a guest to the house of a man who is a sinner.”  But Zac·chaeʹus stood up and said to the Lord: “Look! The half of my belongings, Lord, I am giving to the poor, and whatever I extorted from anyone, I am restoring four times over.”  At this Jesus said to him: “Today salvation has come to this house, because he too is a son of Abraham.  For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost.”

 

Zacchaeus was an extortioner. Jesus knew it. Jesus didn't wait for Zacchaeus to repent before eating with him. Jesus didn't wait for Zacchaeus to make amends before eating with him. Jesus initiated the request to eat with a known sinner, who was guilty of serious sin, extortion, before the man stopped the bad behavior.

 

"For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost."

 

Jesus said: "My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

 

"...let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ."💖

[Moise Racette]

3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Who am I to withhold the simple pleasure of laughter from my brother?

Can't say I didn't miss it.

3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Not even once.

 

The word "love" appears in the New World Translation 561 times.

Where does love meet, when disciple is necessary? Should brothers disobey God's law just because Audrey feels lonely?

So, don't look for an invisible word, but a visible intent with context.

3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

You yourself are saying it. 

 

Amen. Follow the Word of God.

Okay, good. Follow God NOT Audrey, that is misapplying scripture. Thanks for the confirmation.

3 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

The disfellowshipping doctrine is not loving. Here is what love is:

Have you told God how much you disagree with his commandment of reproval and the restriction that accompanies it? I'm sure it's not the first time he's heard that one.

That means, you refute God, and his inspired words. Do you think the apostles went behind God's back and decided to put something in the bible God didn't approve of? If so, can you post that proof?

 

 

[Moise Racette]

1 hour ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

(From "Mankind's Search for God" chap. 3 pp. 54-55 par. 25 Common Threads in Mythology)

Don't forget words like "expel" and "excommunicate" in your word definitions quest.

[John 12.24to28]

Pharoah threw Israel's firstborn into the water. Later Jehovah took vengeance by throwing Pharoah and his "firstborn", the elite warriors of all Egypt, into the water.

 

In ancient Israel, apostates sacrificed children in the valley of Gehenna, something that Jehovah detested. Today if you visit "Ex JW Reddit" you see a figurative valley of Gehenna, where many children of Jehovah have been figuratively sacrificed to a living death, called disfellowshipping. Many of them are now practically spiritually dead, "killed" because of a lack of love.

 

How is disfellowshipping any different than divorce or abortion? These "divorced" and "aborted" Witnesses are still alive and suffering. It makes me sick to visit that website, because they are all suffering so much. Jehovah hears all their tears. Jehovah's name is reproached because of this disgusting disfellowshipping teaching. Jehovah will sanctify His Name and figuratively "resurrect" the faith of all those little ones who have been figuratively "sacrificed" to the Baal of the Governing Body.

 

Jesus will make clear how he feels about matters.

 

Praise Jehovah.

[Moise Racette]

30 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

In ancient Israel, apostates sacrificed children in the valley of Gehenna, something that Jehovah detested. Today if you visit "Ex JW Reddit" you see a figurative valley of Gehenna, where many children of Jehovah have been figuratively sacrificed to a living death, called disfellowshipping. Many of them are now practically spiritually dead, "killed" because of a lack of love.

There you go. I knew I hadn't lost you. The person that continues to blaspheme against God's Holy Spirit. Why do you think it's necessary to call the brothers murders? Because other people like @Witness do. Does that mean, if a person jumped off a bridge, you would follow?

You're not going to change, and God won't accept your apology. What's next? Taking your hate on the road? 

People here were kind enough to give you the  benefit of the doubt. I mean, I know your kind so well, but to disappoint people here, for shame!

30 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

How is disfellowshipping any different than divorce or abortion? These "divorced" and "aborted" Witnesses are still alive and suffering. It makes me sick to visit that website, because they are all suffering so much.

I'll go along with your logic. How? Let me see, if a couple get divorced, it's like killing a fetus, hmm! If a couple gets divorced, and they have joint custody of the children, they will never speak to each other. You're right, your logic is baffling.

Although, you got me on how an aborted fetus is still alive and suffering. Do you mean before? Because after, it would be a ghost feeling.

30 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Jehovah's name is reproached because of this disgusting disfellowshipping teaching. Jehovah will sanctify His Name and figuratively "resurrect" the faith of all those little ones who have been figuratively "sacrificed" to the Baal of the Governing Body.

Well, it's not the first time God has been rebuked and reproved by his creation nor will it be the last. Yes! God will be sanctified by his faithful and loyal servants. 

I told myself I wouldn't be using the word "apostate" anymore since it appears there was a jihadist group in Somalia that attacked a military post under the authority of that word. Another misapplication and usage.

[Moise Racette]

2 hours ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

who is the head, Christ.

Who is above Christ and inspired the words that Christ followed? So, let's not forget the number one, God!

[John 12.24to28]

"“Why do you speak to them by the use of illustrations?”  In reply he said: “To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted.  For whoever has, more will be given him, and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him.  That is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations; for looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it.  And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see.  For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them."

 

@Moise, Jesus used illustrations. You know this.

 

Divorce tears apart a relationship. Abortion tears apart a relationship. Both illustrate a situation that parallels disfellowshipping. Disfellowshipping tears apart relationships. You know this.

 

I do not blaspheme God, but you, @Moise, blaspheme and slander with practically every post. Jehovah will rebuke you.

 

"Martha then said to Jesus: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.  Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.”  Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.”"

 

Jesus can heal the family. He can raise the dead, even the spiritually dead. He can fix the damage done by all the mistakes in the organization. And he will fix it, because he always does Jehovah's will. Jehovah is glorified in this.

 

Jesus said: "Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have glorified it and will glorify it again."

 

Praise Jehovah.

[Moise Racette]

17 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

@Moise, Jesus used illustrations. You know this.

What does denying God's word that jesus didn't do, have to do with sound Godly doctrine? Why do you continue to rebuke God for your failures as an imperfect being?

20 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Divorce tears apart a relationship. Abortion tears apart a relationship. Both illustrate a situation that parallels disfellowshipping. Disfellowshipping tears apart relationships. You know this.

True, divorce tears apart a failed relationship. Does that mean children should be the victims of adult failures? Yet, you cannot compare "disfellowship" when there is fellowship in child custody. 

Now you state abortion. When a mother is in a life or death situation, don't both parties make the decision? How is that tearing people apart?

You need to make better arguments than the ones you are making, since there are many scenarios and, variables.

34 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

I do not blaspheme God, but you, @Moise, blaspheme and slander with practically every post. Jehovah will rebuke you.

Wrong, I rebuke you personally for blaspheming against God. You rebuke God's words, in essence rebuking God and slandering his sovereignty every time you post. I will continue to rebuke you as long as you continue your ill will against your creator. Therefore, God strengthens my resolve through his grace.

40 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Jesus can heal the family. He can raise the dead, even the spiritually dead. He can fix the damage done by all the mistakes in the organization. And he will fix it, because he always does Jehovah's will. Jehovah is glorified in this.

Apparently he did that with you. He fixed the issue by allowing the congregation to rebuke your bad behavior with God's blessing. 

43 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

Jesus said: "Father, glorify your name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have glorified it and will glorify it again."

But did Jesus say, father, I glorify myself above you? You sound just like @Witness

[John 12.24to28]

"Truly I say to you that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins they commit and what blasphemies they speak."

 

@Moise, I know you are afflicted. I cannot agree with everything you say, but I do hope you can enjoy your coffee this morning.

 

(@Witness is not able to defend herself on the forum at present. She does not glorify herself above God. I do not agree with all the things she believes, but I do agree with her love for justice. She has been misled by a sect, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't love God, or that God doesn't love her, or that the ransom isn't enough for her. She is zealous and compassionate toward those hurt by the organization. I admire those qualities very much. Jehovah admires them even more than I do. They are the qualities of a good shepherd who wants to protect the flock. @Witness told me via private message that she has had her commenting privileges revoked on the forum. Maybe they will be restored soon. I hope she is well.💖)