Space Merchant

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  1. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    @Anna Exactly, 100% right. The funny thing is, they never want to read beyond verse 30, because they know it would stop their claims dead in it's tracks. The same goes for John 20:28, only this time, they don't want to read before - knowing that Thomas was not present when the risen Jesus appeared, and only then when the disciples came and then Jesus was revealed to Thomas, to his shock, he said what he said, and the passage itself is regarding seeing is believing, especially when Thomas is being talked about for he doubted that Jesus had risen. Hence why one can call back to what Jesus had said which connects with this passage, John 14:10-11; 12:44-45. It is pure annoyance when people deny the truth itself that comes from the scriptures, at the same time, they HATE when someone is right for saying what is 100% correct to what the bible says, they remain in denial, they accept "as is" claims from mainstream Christian, example John 10:30, such ones say this proves Jesus is God, but when told the truth, they don't want to hear it. This also goes for those who are ignorant or misinformed about one's faith, why they believe this and that when it come from scripture, for such ones have more sense than those who believe in what the man-made version of Christianity that is professed by a lot of people around the world who do not accept what is true. Not to mention the type of Christians (Molech believers) who take delight in the death of others, or the fact that since they believe in fire torment and that God is omnipresent, being there 24/7 to watch endless torment of people, these types of Christians do not know ANYTHING about what Gehenna is nor do they know what Hades is. Such ones fail to see that God himself, emotionally, reacted to fire torment in the Old Testament. For God the Father said it best himself: I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination. (this is but one of many verses regarding such). Mainstream ones do not know this, yet they practice this doctrine that is false of fire torment. The very reason why salvation is only vital by those who profess 100% what the bible says, those who follow accordingly to how the church is structured and operate, as did the 1st century Christians, or organization, as they say, the very word that is not fun to use by, in this case, JW opponents, they fail to see a faith itself is pretty much Religious organization, no matter how hard they try to knock it. SHE the church, the people IS the church, and HER teaches will remain intact, anyone who says otherwise of HER and HER people, is clearly not taking anything seriously, be it the bible or the church or what God says.
  2. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    Actually it does, it is no lure, for the Great Commission is what it means and it has been commanded by profess Christians. Evangelicalism is the spreading of the Christian gospel by public preaching or personal witness. zealous advocacy of a cause, in addition, missionary zeal, purpose, or activity. What man does not take great zeal in what Jesus commanded? A Restorationist' main focus is the Good News Gospel, of which, Jesus himself preached. The JWs are basically acting out as their role as ministering missionaries who preach to convert to their church, therefore, such ones become students, and eventually teachers. You cannot preach the good news gospel when doing nothing, Jesus himself went from town to town, spoke in synagogues, such is done in a similar fashion today, the only different is some preach from the bible, some do not. You sure about that? What do you think I am even quoting from? That being said, anyone understands the functions and operations of a Restorationist individual and or group, everything and anything they do is in the bible, it is for the bible and it comes from the bible, for that is how the early church operates, so do they. There is no bunny in a hat magic, in this sense, for core Christianity being profess is indeed a practice by some, even JWs. Muslims recognizes this also. Than again, you only cited a 1990 publication with 1 page when there is evidence that there is more pages to this article, and a 2006 that has not been addressed yet. If anything, to state your resolve, just copy and paste the article here if it does not work, surely that would have reaped success on your part. Friend, this is indeed fact of what I stated. As for this escape argument, it is evident, that JW opponents only got for inexperienced. Jehovah's Witnesses and or novices of the faith, they never dare to cross an experienced one, which was the case with some Trinitarians. Even with Muslims, they never came across an experienced JW let alone someone who knows the bible very well, Hyde Park speaks for itself, for instance, there was a case with Christian who said they manage to win an argument against a JW, but later on, that same argument revealed their hypocrisy on the verse that they posed to JWs, therefore, making JWs and the Bible experienced Sunni, correct. The silliness however, is when a JW is indeed right, he is said to be wrong, which was the case in a debate video I posted several months back. As for actual beliefs, I believe they can speak for themselves on what they belief, and what they see that is true from the bible, they can explain it, but they won't waste time with nonsense of those who do not listen, so they simply dust off their feet, and go to the next person. That being said, the theology of JWs and their Christology is very, very obvious. The primary problem Mainstream Christianity has with the Jehovah's Witnesses is that they do not believe Jesus is God, others are neutral with JWs because they do not want to make mistake when the day and hour comes, therefore, they wait an they watch being very careful with making accusations to those who do not fit the description. And? If a link is dead, the person in question who will have to edit and or correct it, make sure the link is visible, at CSE, you can be called out for it, during my early years, I have posted broken and misdirected links when I wanted to prove something, over time, I learn the importance of making sure such links match what I am saying, which was the case with nearly all my comments on this forum and elsewhere. So I say to you, I do not address nor believe your claim, that is why I made mention of the link being dead, so therefore, you can update and or post the link to prove your resolve, or just leave it as is. As for the last bit of comment you made, grown men do not adhere to antics of children, so what I had mention is with utter seriousness for what is being talked about, nothing more. But if it assumes you to speak of such, so be it, for if it was not any clearer to you before, I value information, therefore, I expected, yet saw nothing. I add address it, didn't quote it exactly though, more of making a point here regarding the practices of JWs. Anyone who recognizes salvation knows that clear adherence to the scripture is indeed vital for salvation, mainly if following that of the original organization in regards to the 1st century. As long as the JWs get you to learn what your bible says, as long as they make God's name known, his Kingdom, his Son, etc, Like I said, their organization follows the same structure as that of the 1st century Christians, and if we are to be honest with what was said about the church, the same can be said about this faith group also. For it is a must to follow what the church has taught, the teachings that come from the bible, anything outside of it will render hope for salvation. the JWs believe that their church follows the 1st century, they even address their structure in that same article and how they operate. The article itself, as stated, it directed to helping a bible student learn the teachings and be among the flock, like I said, bringing the sheep into the flock with accurate knowledge of what the bible says. JWs believe what they teach is the truth, their Restorationist roots, even tracing to that of their Apostolic counterparts, do whatever is necessary to be closer to the truth than far from it. This is the case with even non-denominational Restorationist who are of no group and live a lifestyle that you wouldn't even adapt to, but they fail in one aspect, Great Commission, and only the group in question professes such. For if salvation was indeed important to you, why not you preach it then if you think of the JWs to be on a rocky path themselves? It is no surprise that Jehovah's Witnesses will separate themselves from Mainstream Christianity, for even the things that Jesus entrusted, they take seriously oppose to the mainstream, who do not. For as the saying goes, being a Christian, mainly a hardcore one, is not for everyone. Therefore, I remain as neutral with them because I am being careful myself not to break any of God's Laws, to accuse a man and later on to find oneself subjected to judgement, is not the path I or wish on any man. I have respect for those who takes the bible seriously, and not adhere to accursed teachings, hence my stance with them ans several others who are trying to seek truth with a great deal of struggle. But clearly those who are far from the truth and spark ignorance of what the bible says, using the bible to defend what is accursed, such ones, will be refuted. As for information and knowledge of what each denomination stands for, such ones will also be refuted and corrected on such. That being said, the other pages of that 1990 article, I will find them, for that is a link. As I said, provide more, with the pages intact. Other than that, JWs would be 100% hypocrites, if they say such a thing and do not preach, for knowing what the bible says and not to preach it at all, especially the good news gospel - that is utter selfishness, but clearly, they preach it, as did Jesus, and as do those who fight against what is accursed. Lastly, you mention crucial element of this thread, this same article makes mention to other pages, can you provide so we can go on further? or perhaps update the other link? Maybe provide the the more evidence that you seem to have? As for what I address, my source was the link provided in my other response, as well as the history of Restorationist Christians who emerged from The Great Awakening from many many years back, in addition to a former JW, being a source as well. Also I don't make wishes, that is something, culturally, as absurd and somewhat related to pagan-like practices of men. The original church and anyone who adheres to the original church and those who profess this same structure, such is essential to one being saved. Any practices outside or does not follow the church, such is accursed and will get more of what is coming to them than those they show deceit to. This goes for what you have shown me in the past to which I spoke in correction.
  3. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    I wasn't referring to the thread itself, I was referring to the response you made. As I said to before, I make a direct response to a claim, for the response here, I never made no mention of the main topic of the thread, solely my response is to direct and at times specific comments. But if you want me to address op, I will do just as that. That being said, what I have said before, still stands, in response, to a comment which you made to which I made the direct comment to, the very reason I break them down and target a specific claim. And of course, you pulled it from the very website that is clearly in opposition of the faith, anyways, let us analyze it anyway. Provide more, for the more information, the better. And all pages included, not one sole page. To start, it is known that, the Jehovah's Witnesses faith would have no reason to engage in the preaching of the gospel alongside their community, if they didn't believe that there wasn't any hope for others. Certainly if JWs believed only THEY will be saved, that would defeat the purpose of the whole evangelizing work, now wouldn't it? They are certain that God's mercy will extend to all kinds of people, black, white, Chinese, an adult, a child, etc, regardless of sex, such ones are preached to about the good news gospel, the same of which Jesus himself preached himself, as addressed by the four gospel accounts. At Acts 24:15, apostle Paul stated that God the Father is going to resurrect even the unrighteous, alongside the righteous. having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. One can ask, do they truly believe that they themselves are the only ones who will be saved? The simple answer is no, and everyone knows how a Restorationist is and how they operate in this regard, mainly the ones who adhere to the early Christians and the early Church's structure. They hold to, and even profess by evangelicalism, that many people that have lived centuries ago and who were not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in the resurrection and have an opportunity for life, as well as being granted of what the bible informs is about - eternal life, life that is everlasting. Moreover, many now living right now, have yet take a stand for truth and righteousness that is heavily expressed in the bible and what Jesus had taught, such ones before the end times and tribulations begin, these people will gain salvation and be saved, especially those who identify who God is and who Jesus is and adheres to what the bible says. In addition, we should also be very aware that God looks at the heart of each and every one of us. He sees everything in total accordance and judges mercifully and he has also committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours, for it is known Jesus was given authority and power (Matthew 28:18). Judging a Restorationist, even when one is a total stranger to you, is very telling and it reveals much about the one who judges, we are not even discussing/ and or including the things in the realm of conduct (from the absurd to brazen) either in this regard. The 2006 source of which you linked: Your link is dead (x_x), so therefore, a response cannot be made to this one nor can your claims be taken as truth, unless you have a correct link of said information, until then, this claim is as empty as a drunkard's bottle. The 1990 source of which you linked: You do realize of whom the JWs are making a direct reference to, right? The THEY of whom they speak of in this article is in large purple text. Directing Bible Students to Jehovah's Organization. Such ones that the JW faith start a study with, for the article does teach the disciple of the JW church how to direct one into as well as establish a study. The article also makes it clear of how the viewpoints of the bible and what society is now has changed, an example of our day and age, how one can easily use the bible itself refer to God as Jesus when we know God is not Jesus, or those who defend and justify homosexuality (even to the point they address the word is not mentioned in the bible at all), males sleeping with the same sex, in addition to a defense for same sex marriage by using the bible, or that of slavery and inciting of religious hatred or fighting, and there is indeed a big claims regarding all these things that an uneducated bible student will easily fall to and take every word of what is being professed, if they do not understand fully of what the bible teaches. This is where the JW comes in pertaining to this article, to teach about God's Kingdom and to profess the faith that lines up with scripture, judging by what is being read in this article. The goal in question is to teach them how their organization is bible-based, following the scriptures accordingly, bringing the sheep into the flock with accurate knowledge of what the bible says. What is also addressed is drawing the bible student to the teachings of God, be it by visualizing what the scriptures profess or that of, for instance, how the grown ones teach the young one about God and what he has done, how God, their Rock, has safeguarded them, for the learning of God is Law, as the bible tell us. In the JW's case, pictures and illustrations of passages in the bible as well as accounts, in addition to what is being said at their sermons/meetings of which what is being talked about regarding the bible, as well as things of the past, and things taking place now in today's society, the positives an the negatives, and how it affects Christians, how it affects them as Christians. Jehovah's Witnesses speak such of their church because they follow the same scripture of what the early Christians had with their church, hence why the reference in this same article that even addresses it, for following the structure of the church as did their 1st century counterparts, who were pretty much Non-Trinitarian prior to the Council situation, they are organized and united in the same teachings The Church and Her People, who in turn make up the Church and follow the teachings as they say, (somewhat quoting Irenaeus sort of) and adhere together what the bible teaches, even learn from each other. Anyone who recognizes salvation knows that clear adherence to the scripture is indeed vital for salvation, mainly if following that of the original organization in regards to the 1st century. As long as the JWs get you to learn what your bible says, as long as they make God's name known, his Kingdom, his Son, etc, that alone enables one to go on a path of seeking salvation, for indirectly they can pretty much put you in the very Apostolic roots of which their organization is structured upon, the only difference is the group itself is doing the Great Commission regarding the good news gospel, a command from Jesus, they also take into account of what Jesus had entrusted the church to do, an ability given regarding the Holy House, that is the church, most importantly, its foundation being the Christ, for the Christ is indeed the head of the church and the head of the Christ is God. That being said, it is silly to think only they can be saved, it would be hypocrisy to even preach and evangelize if that is their mindset, let alone bear the interference of their Apostolic Age and Restorationism roots, that is, literal primitive Christianity in the most basic of sense. For the goal for them is simple, get the knowledge of what the bible teaches out to the people, make them learn about it and pave a way for their salvation by means of their organization, for clearly they take into account others, that is why, they preach. Therefore, the whole Jehovah's Organization is following the early church regarding salvation and being saved, to understand the bible, you are part of the Spiritual House, no matter of how you try to knock it, JWs, on the other hand, stick together and like the Restorationist they are, they are adhere to command when it comes to having students; a teacher teaches a student do the student becomes the teacher, and he too will have a student. Therefore, this denomination, that is indeed their Christology and understanding. The only thing that seems to be lacking from this article is the other pages and portions that connects, but clearly, as addressed before about this site, they have some misinformation that can easily be spotted out, example, the Russian I mentioned a while back regarding what and why is a Watchman's Tower is important, hence as to why JWs use that as their identifying logo. Other than that, this is one but many articles posted by JWs on the CSE forums, 4C is quite the knowledgeable: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Are the Only Ones Who Will Be Saved? The link itself of which I copied from CSE also points to similar articles. It would seem the JW website have also saved me the trouble of searching everything. Also you can post whatever you got left, so I can read it, please, make sure the link is not dead. I can go on, but perhaps maybe for the time being I can cut down on somethings. At times, even I feel as though, as I said before, speak too much. I'd also like to address that one can see the answer for this when they are not solely one-sided. This has been addressed, time and time again in minor to very strong discussions about salvation and the like, those saved, those of the church, etc. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time, just as there is already a huge ongoing discussion about who God is, and another regarding those who are trying to push immorality defense by using the bible, such things have to be addressed and never one sided, for if such remains one sided, one can easily be blind and not see the other side of the discussion that has more fruits in the basket than the latter.
  4. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    You seem to be missing the point of what I had addressed. It does not matter if one is a JW or not, was mention still stands. You have former members who speaks against those who see JWs in a negative light, I myself have witnessed such and clearly the very person was attacked for his views and his experience. There is a point to where a former member of a faith can reach apostasy and that is when they speak against either the bible or what the faith teaches, if you preach Jesus is God inside a JW church while being a member, obviously it is going to get you expelled. There are two groups of former JWs, the ones who continue relentless opposition of a faith to the point of church disruption, be it a meeting, a wedding, communion, a funeral, the list goes on, it has been taken up to an extreme when now such churches are lit on fire and shot at. Such ones see everyone who sees differently as them as an enemy. The latter is former JWs who respect their former faith and continue to live about their day without inciting and or influence any sort of Christian In-fighting, never will you see such ones disrupt a church or refer to God is such a slander that will make even nuns quake in fear with disgust face. These people often come to blows with their counterparts and these people defend their relatives and friends who are JWs, only to be met with opposition and threats from other former JWs with a negative view, this was the case with what I had addressed months ago, the negative ones who are not Christ-like and clearly against the faith, ran a man off the internet, they ran an art student off the social media, they ran a gay man out of YouTube, why? Because they defended JWs, even though they agree/disagree with somethings, 2 of the 3 people being former JWs themselves. Never has such people speak ill of God, the bible, or his Kingdom. This is what I addressed before and this is what I will address again. Out of the two, it is clear who will be judged, especially those judged with clear path for the second death, those who speak ill of God and everything he says through his Word and the Word he has sent. You have one group who is that clearly is of no faith, but still has a hope in what the bible says, for they themselves having demons they are battling with within them, they know what is right and what is wrong and clearly will defend what the bible says when the situation calls for it. Therefore, it does not matter who is a JW and who is not, you even have those who are not of the faith at all defend what is true, i.e. that Jesus is the Son, not God the Father. Such things is very serious and one shouldn't be playing around and should be taking the bible seriously. You are going to have to prove how it differs because according to the Christian not of the mainstream, it is quite identical, and such can indeed also be proven, with not only the bible, a clear hermeneutical view of what was taught, of which is clear fact, the mainstream do not follow, which is addressed by Christians who are not part of it, and to some extend, non-Christians can call such things out and tell you ant the bible says. Because when one has something to say, they say it. Probably not in the way that I tend to do it with being overly detailed, but whatever works. I do write a lot, always have, we have discussed before about Religious worship regarding God vs Jesus, Jesus' birth and the Traditions of man. Information and detail well put together is like fine art to a final piece, mainly if said information is 100% true. Then again, sometimes I quote myself or allude to something I tend to have said before, only this time I probably got a mix of both regarding both your comments, both alluding to each other because I was busy with @Jesus.defender claims, back to back claims all within seconds of each other, hence the 2 responses to your comment tend to be be nearly similar. But yes, proof is good. That being said, you can post your prove, just know what I will make in response is regarding what the bible says and the practices of the non-mainstream ones. Other than that, all men are saved when they recognize God's purpose and will as well has his grace through his Son, in addition to maintaining faith and adhere to what the bible teaches. JWs, you, etc, only saved if you adhere to what is taught. Those in any group who do any thing of the accursed, even being ignorant of truth, well, you can throw in the hamburgers with the hotdogs too - there is no middle ground.
  5. Space Merchant

    I am the Christ

    I have, just that I tend to add many examples and details when met with a response, the habit is to prove information, regardless. If I have not said anything pertaining to sections of your comment, I would not have mad a response, let alone broken them down to make a direct response to each. Plus it is not a surprise of how my comments are structured, I am quite lecture-sque type, I like information in full and well detailed. If you want some thing very brief, Restorationist of this kind, Bible Students/Jehovah's Witnesses/Bible Thumpers/other minorities that hold a Restorationist view follow very closely of what the bible speaks of regarding Teachers/Prophets, how such ones are to take care of their flock, in this case, the church. They tend to act as guidance and to teach as well as make decisions for the flock, in some cases, even regarding a person who has sinned. Such ones do not take kindly to interfaith silliness and it results in expelling for anything that is not of the faith results in expelled, what Jesus had entrusted to begin with. And no contradictions, simply truth and getting a word out for those who were attacked for their views vs the one sided opponent of said faith. CTR himself adhere to what the bible says and clearly over time, he, as did others, learn, they adapt, etc. That is what a Restorationist are known for after all, and this is why what I have said is actually fact, that is, if both sides are being heard instead of one side, which seems to be the case, hence why the breakdown of of tour response. That being said, it is also the very reason why the church leaders of JWs act the way they do, Restorationist tend to go on the far more ancient side of Christianity vs modern, such ones tend to not stem too close to how mainstream Christians act, and should a change be made, they live up to it so that it matches conduct and what the bible says. This is why it is important to understand where such ones are coming from. Fact: Restorationism, the belief that Christianity has been or should be restored along the lines of what is known about the apostolic early church, which restorationists see as the search for a more pure and more ancient form of the religion. Fundamentally, "this vision seeks to correct faults or deficiencies (in the church) by appealing to the primitive church as a normative model."
  6. Space Merchant

    Gaming Too Much?

    @admin Yeah this was bound to happen. The whole Fortnite take over the world craze, and the fact it hit the Nintendo scene with more than 2 mil+ in a span of minutes on E3 day is insane. I have a neighbor, big guy loves fitness and all and has 4 kids, him and his kids play Fornite, he himself says up and you can hear him laughing, his laugh is like that of a Hyena, but yeah I don't play games like that, I got stuff to do, if anything, it is Forza Motorsport for me But you know what they said, whatever is cool today, will be old skool tomorrow, either the community for that game will die off when the player count drops and or shift to something else when it releases. VR though is still expanding though, no one is going to pass up being Hank Hill and impersonate him.
  7. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    No, if I was ignorant it would be obvious, for an ignorant man knows nothing, as for knowing the bible says, clearly what is seen here is who knows what and who does not, you didn't even realize that it is written even means. You haven't refuted everything, most of what you said an the back to back comments only prove copy/paste antics. According to Paul, Jesus, being an image/form of God, is not to be considered equal to God, Philippians 2:6. The fact you consider this a JW thing only, bears no fruit. It is evident that you are a Trinitarian, a triggered one at that,hence the back to back comments. Clearly, friend, you are not dealing with a Jehovah's Witnesses, you're dealing with one who has proven to be a very critical Christian who confutes. As for what you have quoted, you attempt to prove Jesus is God, but as to what I said before, a simple law of which Jesus professed as a child kills the claim you make, not even the Watchtower can help you at this point, which is rather upsetting, you can quote the Watchtower all you want, I got a 4th century sources and a thousands of Strong's to use at my disposable. God is indeed greater than his Son, Jesus because God the Father is the Eternal King (Psalms 10:16, 90:2, Daniel 6:26, Rev. 15:3) and is incorruptible/immortal (1 Timothy 1:17, Romans 1:23). He cannot succumb to what corruptible man can succumb to, God cannot die nor can he bleed (Habakkuk 1:12), so your claim of God's blood is very silly. For anyone to think God, the source of life itself, the Almighty, can die, such a man clearly woke up on the wrong side of the bed and is wearing his pants and shirt backwards. The bible tells us that God is indeed the source of Life, for life has always existed because of the living God, the fountain of life and he has no other or equal, and clearly has been around longer than any of us for Lord knows when (Jer. 10:10, 17:13, Dan. 6:20, 26, John 6:57, 2 Cor. 3:3, 6:16, 1 Thess. 1:9, Ps. 36:9). We cannot be foolish of the Father's incorruptibly. God the Father is the very reason as to why Jesus became a man, for he is the one who sent Jesus after choosing Mary, moreover, God has always given task to the one who is to have an important role in aiding Jesus, this one, John the Baptist, for even his Father Zechariah, now being able to speak by means of the Holy Spirit being poured on to him, made this acknowledgement (Luke chapter 1). God is not like us men, according to Job (Job 9:32-34) and what is said in the Old Testament, God is not like a Man or a Son of Man (Numbers 23:19, 1 Samuel 15:29) nor does he tell lies like one (Psalms 89:35, Titus 1:2), for we know God is a Justice God, what he says is final and what he says is true, there is no question about that. John 14:28 makes it clear that Jesus is clearly not on equal footing to the very one who is greater than him, his Father, who is the life giver, the God of the living and the dead, the very one who has brought Jesus out of the pangs of death and made him Lord, according to Apostle Paul. Regarding John 10:30, the scriptures show us that Jesus is saying that he and the Father are one in terms of purpose and will and the works he was doing in the name of the Father, for the Father that is abiding in Jesus, is doing the works (John 5:36, 14:10,), hence why Jesus has mentioned time and time again to believe in him and the one who has sent him, this was also the affirmation of the early church, who, in turn are also one in Christ, such can easily be seen by the epistles of Apostle Paul. We later found out in John 17:20-23 that Jesus prays (his final one) that Christians will be one with the Father and he himself just as he is one with the Father. With this information in mind, it is very evident of what is being said here. It does not mean they are therefore God. Here we can see clearly that Jesus sees this oneness in terms significantly different than what the this hate preacher would have us believe. For this reason, such blind ones usually disingenuously disregard John 17 when citing John 10:30 for the sake of their accursed doctrine. And it is very clear they do this for a reason, nonsense of which is being seen here in public. It is also good to see that Jesus explains how he was one with the Father - United Will For Christ Lord, Jesus tells us that he did not come to do his own will but only the will of the Father (John 6:38), and we know 100% God sent his Son, the messenger, the prophet, to speak His Word to the people so they believe he is from God the Father, in addition to his works to further prove himself that he was indeed sent. He also tells us he only said what the Father told him to say, hence why the Father is indeed, greater than the Son (John 8:26,28, 12:49-50; 14:24) He was not able to do anything from himself, by himself, as the Muslims say it, he cannot do anything on his own (cannot do a single thing), but only what he saw the Father doing (John 5:19), and Jesus kept his Father's word (John 8:55). Throughout the Gospel of John, Jesus reminds us over and over in similar ways. He was one with the Father in terms of purpose and will because he always obeyed the Father and kept His word. Jesus did not do his own will. There was only one will between the Father and Son, the Father's will. My food is to do the will of him who sent me, and to accomplish His work. (John 4:34, cr. 17:1-5). Long story short, for I am not going to go full out thread mode on this verse itself, there is a whole long to be said here, but clearly this is not the thread to post such, but with every fact and evidence we have, even the brief ones mention. If we are honest, we can see that he, Jesus, was one with the Father the same way his disciples are expected to be with God, in the unity of the Holy Spirit in terms of purpose and will. In such a manner in which he was praying in Gethsemane for all believers to be one with him and the Father, they in us, and us in them. Clearly, the oneness of Jesus and the Father in these passages refers to oneness of function in the unity of the Holy Spirit of God. He was one with the Father in purpose and will and for this reason he prays for his disciples to be one with him and the Father, just as we are one. So when we look at what Jesus had said, The Father is Greater than I am, for the head of the Christ is God, we take into seriousness of what he met by that response and take into context what the bible gives us information on, clearly this has not been addressed, let alone fully, John 10:30, I got one in the chamber for that one, but I will not speak more in depth for it is quite the response that demands a thread. Hebrews 1:4 informs us clearly on Jesus' exaltation, in fact, the majority of Hebrews 1 and what the author of Hebrews is trying to convey, such has always fulfilled prophecy hence Jesus being at the right hand side of his Father. He does not prove that he is God for the one who has exalted him in Heaven is the one who has risen him, the one who has made him Lord (Acts 2:36). This is why Paul makes it known to the early church to believe and thank in God the Father, for our Lord Jesus Christ, for God resurrected him, and made him superior to that of his Spirit Being counterparts, for this one has God given authority and power and will soon carry out judgement in his Father's name, for God is Justice, and the Lamb will enact Justice against the wicked by means of his Father. Exlation was not really due to nature, per-say, it was due to what role Jesus had in God's will and purpose, the very fact that Jesus tasted death for us, as stated in the other verse you posted, Hebrews 2:9, what was not mentioned by you is that Jesus' death opens the way for the New Covenant. Moreover, God's grace by means of his Son's sacrifice is evident, providing amnesty for us, and a chance to repent and seek salvation, of which is deemed a hard fight to maintain as read in Jude 3. We are not immune to sin or death, so maintaining faith is key, for even in death, the opportunity for a resurrection is very possible, but should you stray away from God's Laws or what the bible teaches, death is what you'll be continuing to embrace. That being said, Jesus was clearly lower for he was the only begotten, the only one to be birthed as a man, the only one to become flesh in this regard, born of a woman, into the Law of which he profess, learning about his God and Father, eventually becoming the Christ and doing the works of his Father and spreading the gospel of good news, with followers who listen, he died for us, he had risen, made known of the promise of what his Father will give, which took place at Pentecost, he had ascended and was exalted by his Father, being far soupier than this angelic counterparts in Heaven, battled with Satan and is now ready to enact Justice in the name of his Father and bring about the Spiritual House in regard of the New Creation, and when he gives back the Kingdom to his Father, God himself will put an end once and for all to death itself and death/hades, will be no more, for that is the last enemy and onward, God's purpose as is flourishes. Athanasian Creed, that just proves me point even more, another thing is, what you do not realize is what seems to be lacking, the many important features which you, a Trinitarian claim to believe. God the Father's position is not temporary. God has and will always be the one above all, he is the Eternal King, the El Shaddai, Almighty. You think the Father's position of being higher is temporary? God clearly has not filled out a job application for positions, friend. No one is equal to him nor is anyone above him, he is the One True God of Israel, he is my Father, your Father, he is My God, your God. Jesus, who is the image of the invisible God is not to be, according to Paul, considered equal to God. This is coming from a man who understood one of the greatest and foremost laws of which Jesus professed as an adult as well as being a child, as did the Jews in those days, to us Christians today, as well as today's Jews and Muslims who profess this from birth until their death. A common thing we all share and a worldwide acknowledgment of such. But clearly, you do not know of which I speak, thus brings who is really ignorant according to your claim. Moreover, the scriptures show us that bowing down before God the Father's Anointed One is to bow down before God the Father Himself because His Anointed One executes the authority of His throne. Nowhere does it states to religiously worship and show total servitude to God's chosen one, if we are honest, we would know the obvious answer to that. 1. Being God and a Man at the same time is like saying you can be moral and immortal at the same time. What you missed about Jesus' transfiguration is that there were witnesses, Peter was one of them, they also bore witness to God speaking to Jesus and Peter, James and John were present. In fact, Peter made acknowledgment of this in his testimony, of what he had witnessed that day. So one cannot say to mankind if only 3 people were present that day, and we later see of what Jesus had said to them afterwards (Matthew 17:9). 2. Jesus was not all knowing. We know he is unaware of the day or hour of Judgement itself, is is very evident for we see this in Mark 13:32 (also mentioned in Matthew 24:36 and Acts 1:7) and we know only God the Father knows as the other verses have stated and this one (1 Thess. 5:1,2). In addition, Jesus cursed a Fig Tree, for Jesus said the following in Mark 11:14 and the response from Peter (Simon Peter) in Mark 11:21 was also mentioned. If we are honest, we know that that Jesus is not all knowing unlike God the Father. Jesus is the Word that became flesh and was present on earth, as the Son of Man, to teach the teachings of his Father, for what he says is not based on his originality, again John 14:10, but of the Father’s. Jesus also made this known several times, as well as in John 12:49. We also see in John 5:36 Jesus stated he was assigned such a task by God the Father. You are also taking the verse out of context, John 2:24, 16:30 (Jesus was not the one speaking the things known in question is what he taught that came from the Father), 20:17 (again, of what Jesus taught that came from the Father, take a good look at John 10:14,15 also) John 3:13 does not prove omnipresence. Mainly when you take into context Acts 2:34, John 6:38, 8:23, 42. Jesus was in Heaven, then he was on earth as a man, had died, had risen, returned to Heaven, taken by a cloud and two angels. And then theirs Mattias who joined the crew, Judas' replacement. According to the Old Testament, God is not like a man or a son of man and we know God is incorruptible. So you are calming you have 2 Gods now? Binitarian I suppose. Anyways, you can clear see in Matthew 28:18 that authority and power was given to Jesus, who gave it to him, God the Father, Ephesians 1:20, 21 an Philippians 2:9 is cr'd with this verse. Yet somehow death is a possibility, as well as a sense of trouble? Finding himself to be a human being, Jesus had no thought of exalting himself or regarding a plunder to be equal to God. Rather, he humbled himself becoming obedient to death. Recognizing his humanity, Jesus humbled himself before his God serving his God doing God's will even in the face of death. Jesus did not come to be served by to serve and give his life. He learned obedience from what he suffered. As he himself taught, those who humble themselves will be exalted and those who exalt themselves will be humbled. Jesus did not exalt himself over others. Let us be reminded what Apostle Paul is teaching the Philippians. Not to think of themselves as superior over others but to humbly serve them in love. Jesus is their example and as children of God, even as he was a child of God, they are to walk in his footsteps. In the next chapter, Paul himself offers himself as an example, for he emptied himself counting all things as loss to know Christ and to be conformed to his death. Even when he has risen and is made Lord, Jesus is nowhere equal to or above his Father, who is God, no mater how you try to knock it. As a baby, as a child, a teen, into adulthood, to his death, in Hades, being risen, returning to heaven,being exalted, nowhere, was he equal to his Father. Seriously, one has to be really honest with themselves and read for context in the passages than assume. The factor here too, you claim 2 Gods, when there is one. The truth of the matter is simple, Jesus' comment about his Father is true, as is the very evidence of the bible speaks for itself (John 20:17, 1 Cor. 11:3, 15:28, Php. 2:5, 6). In addition to that, we have words from John, Paul and Peter, such ones affirmed what the law is all about and clearly, they know that God is the only Father, and that Jesus is the Son, and out of the two, John and peter, they were witnesses of God speaking to Jesus, and had made acknowledgment of such. That being said, Trinitarians as well as Binitarians do not like context, even when said context speaks against their beliefs and doctrine. Jesus is indeed ignorant of the day and the hour. The bible makes it clear several times and even acknowledges that God the Father, regarding that day, is said to be on time and like a thief in the night. The only thing you have to worry about is the sword that Jesus will be bringing to a firefight (Matthew 10:34, Luke 12:51-53). To say this is a JW teaching is absurd and pure tom foolery, you do not take what the bible says seriously, don't you? You have 2 Gods now, whres your 3rd one? Other than that, God has an obvious nature that does not have anything to do with man, that is, incorruptible. Like I said before, the bible says it also, God is not a man nor a son of man, he does not tell lies, nor can he die or taste death, he is not like men like us and he is the life giver, the God of the living and the also the dead. He's not everywhere at once, nor is he all knowing, etc. Learn what the bible speaks about Jesus and about God. One has a dwelling place, one roam the earth, risen back to Heaven and remains at the right hand of God. The bible does not say Jesus operates as both a man and a God. Do not add to the Scriptures please, for that is a silly explanation. Luke 4:2 we all know the temptation, Jesus, quoted what was written also for verse 3 points to Deu. 8:3, even Satan recognize that Jesus is God's Son and clearly what happen after this confrontation, angels from God came to minister to Jesus. God's Spirit is upon Jesus, do you not believe his words in the same chapter in verse 18? Not to mention, Jesus had the Scroll of Isaiah in hand while he was in a Synagogue in Nazareth, and again, he quotes what is written, that should tell you something. As for Luke 8:23, the Father is clearly with Jesus, which in turn, enables him to do such miracles such as this. If we are using logic here, those of God and those who are enemies of God can also perform miracles too, it does not make either of them God, example in Exodus 17, Moses kept his hands up so the Israelites would prevail in battle, should he lower it, the tables turn quickly, with Aaron's help, Moses kept his hands up for such a miracle to continue on until the Israelites won, that does not make Moses God, as did the others who also perform miracles too. John 4:6, Jesus was legitimately tired from his travels. Clearly the man needed to drink due to his weariness. John 21:17 was already addressed, I believe several times. John 1:48 Not omnipresent, granted with what was said the brief conversation between Philip Nathaniel (Bartholomew) regarding The Messiah and the Laws of Moses that speak of the prophet. It was obvious he would recognize of the one God said in the days of old of who is to come (Deu. 18:18), in addition to what Go said to Abraham and what God had already set in motion after Adam and Eve sinned. The prophet of who the people await as the Messiah, that is, Jesus. The irony is you added a verse from John 4, everyone knows of whom the Samaritans were waiting for, they kept the Torah, and even today they, still residing in Mount Gerizim, await Jesus to return. John 11 perhaps because, again, God is with him? You seem to forget that the Father is literally, always with Jesus, granted what he said in verse 4, clearly Go asks and God gives, as seen in verse 22, verse 27 Jesus is the Christ is the Son of God and what went down in verse 41-42, the one who sent him, the one who abides in him, enabled him to perform such a miracle, as later on, his God' given authority will enable him to perform resurrection at a larger scale. Yet clearly God was with him and that is why he is able to do what he does, he does not do such on his own, therefore, the Father being with him, Jesus was able to do such things, as with anyone God is with as seen in the bible. Jesus does not have his own purpose, he he cannot do a single thing without the Father, the Father enables his purpose and will through his Son. Yet you still attempt to add things to scripture and continue to equal Jesus to the Father. Anything more you wish to share with the class? The bible discussion room is already booked on the holy spirit. Only the Father, not Jesus. But than again, you believe in many Gods, so perhaps for you, the answer is multiple choice. Jesus was very unique, there is no question about that, but he is not God, for a variety of reasons, i.e. law of the Jews. Judging on what the chapter is about, Jesus was not shifting back and forth in what he had to say. Jesus was speaking about the end time and tribulations that is to come and informing us what it is all about. There is no shifting in nature as you claim, if that was the case, it would be evident in most of the 37 verses, yet somehow only 1 verse you make this claim and not o the others. Another factor is you show a total disregard of what others have said about Go'd Judgement Day against the wicked. He was not talking about his return, just simply the day of which God had already set for what is to come, such a day is set by the Father himself, according to Paul. That being said, I can get to your other responses that have many errors, at this point it is sheer bible defense, not only you are bad mouthing another faith, you are turning the scriptures into a Frankenstein monster that I believe you do not even makes sense. 100% man 100% God? Since you like to mention Muslims also, Speaker's Corner will have a field day with the claims you make and since 2015, such claims is causing the decline in what you believe, surely it would have been your faith opponents, but that didn't work out too well now did it? At the end of the day, you are not putting scripture into context, you claim the other faith denies Jesus yet you do not take Jesus'words seriously. That is hypocrisy, for you are breaking scripture, as seen what is written and said by Jesus himself, and you are adding to the Word, of which God made a Law in this regard in Moses day. Surely, you can do better than copy and paste, it was not the typos I was looking at, it was the broken context and jumbling of words and passages. You claim to know Jesus yet do not know what it is written means, come on now, the most novice of any bible reader, even a novice JW can spot that silliness easily. You fail to open your eyes to what the bible says, therefore, the ignorance claim of which you speak, is sitting on your table, not on my table for clearly there is a distinction, one who knows the bible, the other who quotes from a source with pre-determine responses, passages and other fortune cookie nonsense. Therefore, it is safe to say who is really saved, those who know what the bible teaches, and those who are not saved, clearly blind, speak of an accursed doctrine.You don't like the word Trinity, but you should it, the Creed comment was obvious. With that said, I would make a response to your other claims, I see error and confusion, but you are not worth the time after you fail to see Jesus quoting a law, and the fact you put 2 specific verses in your responses that automatically disqualifies everything you have said in your copy/paste comments. Talk about taking an arrow to the knee. Like I said before, a dog with a bark but no bite is not a dog at all. Clearly, maintaining ignorance to falsehood, does not matter if you are a JW, former or not, falsehood will not get you saved.mainly if you accept it and ignore the truth. period. FYI, as a small remark to your HELL comment, I guess by your logic David may be there also (Psalms 139:8).
  8. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    There not statements, they're fact, proven, time and time again. This is the very reason why people tend to have problems with Christians to begin with, for at times such ones do not recognize the problem they have yet remain ignorant of it, as well as the teachings itself. I am not a Jehovah's Witnesses, I am very strict on the bible, Christian history, theology and a list of other things. When someone makes a claim to something that is not of the bible and is not pertaining to the Christology of what is true, it can and will be called out. You are not the first, nor will you be the last, regardless of who you are. If you knew the Christ, you would know how to treat others, mainly to those who are clearly seeking what is true rather than what is false. I study many religions, even Islam. If you know what the bible teaches, you broke one thing regarding those who seek what is true. You have also proven the status of mainstream Christianity. it has, if you take into account what God had said from the beginning of the prophet of whom he speaks that he will put his word. Something as such, the bible speaks about, something as such, one has to adhere to. You say this, but many seem to speak otherwise and confuse the two. I have also addressed such things of which you claim in another post before, you may want to check some of what you address via scripture, for it is known God has a sole dwelling place. John 8:58, attempting to compare ego eimi with ego eimi ho on is futile, it is rather weak and silly when one can see ego eimi I AM is not ego eimi I AM THAT I AM. The fact that you try to compare the two and see it as selfsame just proves my point further to what I addressed before. John 1:1 The word is indeed from God, the Word itself is God and the man who speaks God's Word is also called the Word. What you missed is Deuteronomy 18:18 where God made mention of the prophet who is to come, Jesus, for it is very evident. That is why the people have wait for the Messiah who revealed himself in John chapter 4, and even today, they still await for him. You do not read the verses for context and you miss cross references John 20:28? Typical. I made a post for that today, look it up on Bible Discussion, what is explained there just halted your resolve. Hebrews 1 is of Jesus' exaltation, especially as to what he addressed in Matthew 28:18, we also know Jesus is Lord because God made him Lord upon resurrection and has exalted him, making him far superior to those in heaven. I have also addressed Isaiah 44:6 and what Jesus himself said in Nazareth when he had the scroll of Isaiah in hand. So the claim you are attempting to make holds no water. Revelations 1:17 is regarding the risen Jesus in why he is deemed the firstborn out of the dead, as well as the being the first of the fruits, the new creation of which he is the first and last of, the beginning of the new creation as they say, which consist of the new earth and the new heavens. Again. such things have already been mentioned, addressed in detailed comments by me, clearly to post everything at once here will take up quite few pages, and I am known for detailed and concise information. Apparently you fail to see the cross-references to Psalms 18:31, such verses point directly to the Father, for you did state God is the Father. The funny thing is you are mixing even the law of the Jews to make it seem as though Jesus is God, a very weak attempt, friend, very. Even a Shia can spot such mistakes. The irony is there is 2 passage you mentioned that shatters your claim entirely,a law of which Jesus professed a child, as did his human parents, who also professed this law, but you do not know it. Look at what Jesus said a few verses after that, his response in challenge to these Jews, he revealed that he was God's Son. Jesus even spoke of the written law of which God himself had said, in Psalms 82:1, 6, which can also be seen in 1 Corinthians 8:5. For the law speaks of men being gods, for that is indeed the law of which Jesus professed what was written and cannot be broken. Again, your cross references should tell you that, even bible hub makes mention of such references, yet you remain blind as a bat to such, yet have the audacity to speak of cross-references in another claim of yours. You are sure making yourself the one in the wrong here. Also, Jesus and his disciples are one, so are true Christians, perhaps a read further in John, and a bit more in Colossians and Ephsians will reveal this simple fact to you, and even a few verses back from verse 30, Jesus speaks of the flock being one with the shepherd. Why ignore these and say on John 10:30? Hypocritical much? So by your logic, a blind man is God also? (John 9:9) I AM, to be brief, is a common Greek saying, ego eimi means I exist, in Exodus its ego eimi ho on, meaning I am that I am/choose to become, ion Hebrew, it's eyeh asher eyeh. There is no Torah context because outside of the Torah I AM or I AM HE/BEEN has been used. You are trying to make a claim that holds no foundation, you fail to explain context also. Since you mentioned Muslims, they know the context very very well, even one of them who is clearly not a fan of Christians, Hamza Myatt, the Lion of Speaker's Corner. Muslims have something big in common with Christians, they recognize the law of which Jesus professed as a child, which can be seen in sura 112, whereas the verse itself in the bible is in the Torah. They also recognize the difference in I AM (ego eimi) and I AM THAT I AM (eog eimi ho on). Jesus wouldn't be addressing he is the God of Israel, if a Jew who profess the law, Jesus, recognized what the law is, how can you call him a God? This is what Galatians 4:4 says what it says. God himself is bounded by no law or Law Covenant. As for blasphemy, I suggest you read and understand what Leviticus 24:16, Matthew 9:2,3 and Matthew 26:64, 65 even says and understand what it means. Clearly you cannot see for you are blind, and your disdain for a group makes you a broken man Already addressed God dwells in True Christians also, for such ones are also one with God as well as with the Christ Colossians 2:10, Ephesians 1:20, 21 and 1 Peter 3:22 Addressed Thomas already 2 Peter 1:1-3 "God of". Peter's testimony further proves he recognize Jesus is God's Son, the clearest of them all is seen in Matthew 16. What kills your claim is what he addressed in 1 Peter 1:3, he identifies the Father as the only God. You use that other verse in question because it reads out "knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord," the irony is further down the chapter, we know Peter was a witness on that mountain when Jesus transfigured and God spoke, he even, again identifies God as the Father in the same chapter, verse 17. And it seems you like to Westernize the word proskuneos. David was worshiped by his servants, does not make him God, so was angels when they met Lot. The bible makes it clear total servitude and religious worship is for God and He alone, any worship by means of honor and respect is not religious worship. You revealed yourself to be an Arian, who is in favor of Jesus religious worship instead of God the Father, who do you think his anger is going to blaze towards for a man who breaks God's Law? God's blood? You do realize God is incorruptible right? Your credibility just put on a cape and flew out the window, friend. You also have many errors in this response, and the obvious copy and paste nonsense you are spreading. Therefore, a dog who barks, and does not bite, is not a dog at all. Deu. 18:18 Also comparing theon and theos on I see? θεόν (THEON) is clearly different from θεὸς (THEOS) You shot yourself in the foot just now: as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." Cracks on the boat, yeah? Read what was addressed. Do you not know what was written of which Jesus speaks of? Verses down he says both the scriptures cannot be broken, same goes for what is written, and he reveals to us he is God's Son. Take into account the cross references to because since you brought it up, start using them. Actually the cross references make a direct point tot he LAW itself, Jesus quoted what was WRITTEN, anything WRITTEN derives from the LAW, this can be found in Deu. 5:9 for religious worship of God the Father, 6:13 of the Shema Law, Deu. 10:20 religious servitude. You claim to know Jesus but fail to realize "what is written and what is foretold" comes from that of the Law itself and the Old Testament? That is very telling you that you fail to realize that. That just shows you copy and paste but spare no time to read. How do you claim faith if you fail to recognize what "it is written" means? Addressed Isaiah 44:6. Also it points to Revelations 22:13 and several verses in Isaiah. Revelations 1:17, Jesus is the first and the last of the new creation that consist of the new heavens and earth, in addition to those who make up the Spiritual House, God even presents the bride, the chosen 144,000, to the Lamb. God is the first and the last regarding Adam and Eve and everything after that prior to Christ's death and the authority and power he gave to the Christ, his Son. Revelations 1:8 is God the Father, we get more information on several verses such as Exodus 6:3, that even makes a direct reference to the Father himself. El Shaddai, the one and True Elohim, is always the Father, Abba. Clearly you do not grasp that this ONE Jesus speaks of, is the Father,perhaps you should read further down that verse. Again, G\The Father here is identified as God, you shot yourself in the foot, another time. As for the rest of your claims, half of them I addressed in the past, and it is the same Trinitarian nonsense that I see from such ones like you, such ones in Hyde, such ones in the US, such ones in the EU, such ones in Dubai, such ones in the Middle East, like I say here, I've been around and I know quite a lot. Everything else here and what you addressed afterwards have already been disproved, but a clear copy and paste coming from you is and will not help your resolve. A man who does not know what Jesus professed in regards to the law is a lost man, blind even. You pasted a verse that you didn't explain that Jesus holds to high importance regarding the law, which in itself, kills any claim you make about him being God, ironically. Therefore the errors and twisting of of verses can be seen from a mile away. That being said, you claim to know the Christ and say others deny him, yet you fail to recognize even the most basic thing every man knows Jesus for, to quote what is written, if you got that wrong out of your bag of errors, you've proven yourself to be not as credible as you claim. Just another typical mainstream who happens to cross paths with me, one who lacks biblical hermeneutics.
  9. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    JWs adhere to the teachings of Jesus, they do not believe Jesus is God for there is a clear distinction between God the Father (Yahweh/Jehovah) and Jesus, who is the Son of God. Is it hypocrisy if one, such as yourself, speak ill of another man who does the work of spreading the good news gospel, yet you do not adhere to command and commission? The answer is clear. Clearly you do not have the Holy Spirit because of what you just posted breaks a very clear quality of what a Christian must profess, but you read the bible don't you? This should be very evident to you and we know what Jesus says about those who do not adhere to the law (Matthew 7:23), especially to someone such a s yourself who have no idea of what the Law of which every True Christians is bounded to. They deny Hell because Hell isn't the lake of Fire, in fact, even bible translation makes this point clear, example, Revelations 20:14 And death and hell [hades] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. So riddle me this? If Hell is the Lake of Fire, how can you cast Hell in Hell? See how silly that sounds? and Any man who knows God, can go to the Hebrew Old Testament and see for themselves in the Torah an the Laws, that God the Father is not a fan of Fire Torment, this practice was done by Molech Worshipers and Sorcerers who toss their sons and daughters into the burning fire - alive. God even stated such a thing would never cross his mind, so I ask you, you seem to get your giggles and delight out of eternal fire torment of people, ask yourself, if such a thing never crossed God's mind to begin with, why practice it? Of whom do you serve and to whom is your master? God the Father or Molech? You can't teach love with Fire Torment, playing with fire is bad. They do not believe in the cross because the original form of the word was Stauros, meaning a pole or a stake (tree sticking up perhaps), the cross was a very late addition into Christianity, and the clue of the whole pole/stake situation we can look at Maryas, of which predates Jesus. Quote yet no explanation. A dog who barks but does not bite, is no dog at all. You also make a small misstep on your part here. Jesus didn't create everything, nor did he come on his own, nor did he consider himself to be God or equal to him. Your explain is weak and your claim is flawed. Mormons do not preach the good news gospel, they believe they can be equal to God, they also believe God himself actually had intercourse with virgin Mary, they also only adhere to the book of Mormon and hold a strong view in polygamy and child marriage. JWs, are Restorationist, nuff said. Hardcore Bible pressed also, meaning stick to what the bible says, always. SDA believe in the Trinity, so technically, they are JWs who accept the Trinity. They also believe being part of the nation to fight for a cause. Clearly you do not read the bible very much, unless you are here to troll, it can easily be seen. Your picture show holds no foundation also. therefore, your spirit has been tested, 1 John 4:1.
  10. Space Merchant

    I am the Christ

    You'll have to quote CTR then. One thing for certain, of which you quote it has to be deemed true, otherwise I have to pay a visit to ol' Res L who is well aware of who CTR is and has 55 year worth of information on the man, and he defends him. Like I said, they are Restorationist, they do whatever it means to stick to scripture, no matter what, hence they stem away from mainstream Christianity itself. For over time, they learn and apply. I believe I made some mention to something of the like in the Christmas response you make a while back, for what they use to do, they learn, and they abandon and or stop doing something that is no longer required and or they act upon what they know by means of scripture, just as what those have done who predates JWs, as well as many denominations that are out there. Such ones in their current state, anything that is not of the church is accursed, and I made mention before about interfaith and expelling, for if you spread interfaith in their community, you will be removed. But what is there to expect what is already known? Moreover, why do we take one sided response over a faithful member of said faith? But history tends to repeat itself. But, it would be a big problem if the religious leaders did not do what the bible teaches, what God's Laws is all about, and today, regarding God's Laws, people want this faith in particular to abandon some laws and copy the mainstream churches of Christendom, when it is known Restorationist, be it a group or an individual, do not adhere to mainstream Christianity at all. This would be the case, but religious leaders, even in bible times tend to speak for the flock, be is they themselves or as a collective group, even in the New Testament, example, Paul and Barnabas to those in Antioch, another would be Paul addressing issues in the church congregations, hence the epistles sent to these groups, in a sense they provide example, guidance and direction. As for agreeing or disagreeing with practices, it is clear that anything outside of the professed faith is on the grounds of interfaith spreading, so if one claims to have found the Christ and show a total disregard to who the Father is, or speak of something not practice by the faith, you can be expelled from the church. It is known, even outside of the JW faith that anything Interfaith and or against practices and or teachings, i.e. same sex-marriage, abortion, military service and you are a current member, such will get you expelled, the same goes for faith bashing, Christian Infighting and a list of other things. The same thing applies to outside of religion in general, any conduct that is not of the culture or practices of a person and or people, they will deal with you of how they see fit, in the US, it is the typical kick you out response, sometimes physically. You'll have to quote the verse in context because there has been a lot of Pharisees, some of them, like Nicodemus, were expelled from their position, even martyred, for clearly Nicodemus made himself known when Jesus was no more, even before that, when Jesus was alive, he had to visit Jesus during the night. One also recognizes those who remove themselves from anything accursed and go on to learn what the truth is, again I bring up Nicodemus because not only he is mentioned solely in the Gospel of John, but he was involved in one of the most unique conversation (Being Born Again) that Jesus ever had, be it, only him and Nicodemus was speaking, the same man also played a role in Jesus' burial. To some degree, it is the still like this but to an extreme, Christians have been killed for professing what is true. The whole well incident several weeks back, those were Christians down there, and clearly, the people who did that, didn't like their not radicalized belief, elsewhere, we have those who tend to go at it physically when they claim Jesus is God and anyone who is not for that sort of teaching is not saved, at times, such ones inflict injury to those who do not, even to people who have no idea what a bible is or what it says. Screaming in Synagogues and saying outlandish things by twisting verses will not help anyone's case, and this enabled such ones to teach an accursed doctrine, example homosexual churches now have the guns by means of scripture to try and belittle you. So in a sense, it is a mixed bag of M&M'sand Skittles when it comes to true teachers and false teachers, for the false ones tend to out number the true ones.
  11. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    It does not matter if one is a Jehovah's Witnesses or not a Jehovah's Witnesses, especially when one is able to know and identify which branch of Christianity they stem from, example, they are Restorationist because they take the bible in total seriousness, everything they teach and address comes from the bible, even their publications. Their Christology is Non-Trinitarian, that speaks for itself, and any man who has studied not just the bible, but Christianity's history, the very root they originate from, the Apostolic Age, sola scriptura, etc. According to their Theology and practice, they believe all men, women and children can be saved, which is in fact true, hence what the bible speaks of, for God want all kinds of people to be saved and he knows who is for him, those who make the attempt and because of his justice, those who do not, they perish. What JW opponents fail to realize is that those who have JW parents if not a JW anymore and speak ill of the bible and ill of the faith, then that puts you in line for what is to come, on the other side of the spectrum, those who are no longer JW, however still maintain a total respect to the parents who follow the faith, at the same time, such ones still believe that God is indeed true and what his Son had taught is indeed true, as well as coming to a common ground with their JW parents, the irony is, both former JW groups are present, but the ones who go about attacking the faith, also attack those who, also former JWs, who still maintain a defense of what the bible says, at the same time, defend the faith of those in their former faith, and clearly, some of us, even God can see this himself, this is why I brought up before that a man who is totally neutral with JWs defended them and only those JWs deem real apostates, those who bash the faith and scriptures and act out in totally hypocrisy, attack such a man. This was the case with some punk rocker, young man, who, former JW, defended the faith even though he is no longer a JW, he even addressed that his moral code was because of his former faith, and the only reason he left was due to just wanting to do his own thing, but still maintains family ties because he, makes the effort to meet his family and he does not bash them for what they believe every second. If I still have access to the thread I had elsewhere, I can bring this up. So the so called, "hotdogs" that will be burning, are the ones who do not adhere to the teaches, preach against God's Law, and clearly those who are against what the bible says. You fail to see that the whole JW opponent thing is clearly one sided, because everyone who is a former JW and defenses the faith are drowned out by the likes of real apostasy. Understand this and know it and believe me, I have been around. I would have agreed with you if such people didn't exist, but they do. And clearly God sees the actions of such ones and they would go out like Korah and his comrades. Speaking of Korah, the end time tribulations when things do kick of, it may be in similar fashion, but far greater than what we have seen in Numbers 16, only this time, there is a lot of things in the way than just a field and a temple. At the end of the day, you do not have to like the faith group, but take into the example of what Bereans are, or that of John 4, Jesus, a Jew, to a Samaritan woman, or in another passage, the Samaritan Leper. Sometimes fir the minor things you have to be very careful of, for even minor things beget large consequence that cannot be reserved, the only reason why True Christians outside of the mainstream do not mess around with JWs, let alone run into JW churches and cause a disturbance. That being said, I believe the JWs made it clear, based on the bible, of who will be saved, it is safe to also mention they also believe others can be saved too, even outside of their faith, as long as those on the outside accepts what the bible says. We also cannot be ignorant of the fact that there is indeed many, many places in the world where God is not known and no one knows who or what Jesus is, hence why the preaching exist, Thailand is a fine example of what I mention of majority of people, mainly farmlands, that do not know God, the Bible, etc. Also just mention my name, my comments, tend to be long at times, so as long as I see my name or you use @ option below, I will see it.
  12. Space Merchant

    John 20:28: My Lord and My God!

    The Gospel of John John 20:28 Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and My God." The Trinitarian Claim Mainstream Trinitarian Christians claim that Thomas himself is identifying Jesus as "God." The Claim vs. The Facts The facts that come straight from the very pages of the scriptures in the Bible shows us that Thomas was confessing what Jesus had taught him - to see Jesus is to see the Father (John 14:10-11; 12:44-45). That human flesh named Jesus declares the Father (John 1:18). In fact, the entire point of the Gospel of John is to illustrate how the man Jesus made God the Father known. 1. What Thomas finally believed: That Jesus, The Christ, had Risen from the Dead The Trinitarian interpretation is based on the notion that Thomas took this opportunity to declare Jesus himself is his God. However, this interpretation defies the context itself. The account is not about Thomas doubting who Jesus was but whether Jesus was alive from the dead. Thomas had doubted his Lord's resurrection and declared he would not believe he had risen until he had seen Jesus for himself. We can see this clearly when we read in the bible, John 20:25: John 20:25 - So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” In John 20:27, Jesus tells Thomas to see the wounds in his hand and side proving that he was indeed risen from the dead: John 20:27 - Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” The following verse, 28 (John 20:28), we see Thomas' response to Jesus: John 20:28 - Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” For Thomas' response to Jesus is based on finally believing that Jesus had indeed risen from the dead. Jesus then responds to Thomas: John 20:29 - Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” For Jesus was pretty much saying that Thomas was blessed to finally believe because he had seen him. Jesus' response refers to the fact that Thomas had finally believed he had risen from the dead. Trinitarians read John 20:29 as if Jesus is blessing Thomas for believing he is his God. However, the entire point of the passage is that Thomas had finally believed Jesus had risen from the dead. But as always, for some reason, this fact is completely lost on the entirety of the mainstream Christendom when they read the passage. They read John 20:29 as if Jesus blessed Thomas for declaring he is God when the entire point of the passage is that Thomas finally believed Jesus rose from the dead. This obvious disconnect is likely due to the fact that the typical Trinitarian has no idea why Thomas would say "My Lord and my God" in response to finally believing Jesus had risen from the dead. This very fact alone demonstrates they simply do not know what is going on or what such a passage even informs us about. 2. A Flawed Assumption The Trinitarian interpretation of this passage is also based upon a very defective assumption that sits on no foundation, whatsoever. Trinitarians suppose that since Thomas said these words to Jesus, then he must have taken this opportunity to declare that Jesus is his God (my God). However, as the following passage demonstrates, this assumption is highly flawed. Jesus Foretells His Death and Resurrection Matthew 16:21-23 (21) From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. (22) And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” (23) But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.” If we interpreted the above passage in the very same manner as Trinitarians interpret John 20:28, we would then be required to conclude Peter is Satan himself. But this is obviously incorrect. Even though Jesus said these words directly to Peter, we know it does not mean Peter is Satan himself. Hence, we must inquire whether a similar situation may be taking place at John 20:28. The text says Thomas said these words to Jesus. It does not say that Thomas "called" Jesus "God." 3. The Surrounding Context The immediate context militates against the Trinitarian claim. In the preceding context, Jesus describes his Father as his God and Mary's God rather than identifying himself as her God. The verse in question is John 20:17, for it says: John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” In the following context, John indicates that he wrote this Gospel, including the account of Jesus and Thomas, not to tell us that Jesus is himself God but so that we might believe that Jesus is God's son: We have seen the Lord. (20:25). I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God. (20:17) These things have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God and that believing you may have life in his name. (20:31). The Trinitarian interpretation of verse 28 (John 20:28) disregards and defies these contextual facts of what is really being explained here. 4. The Significance of the Greek Grammar Thomas literally said to Jesus, "the Lord of me and the God of me." Now if Thomas had said, "the Lord and God of me," the Trinitarian claim would carry much more weight. The latter statement would be the kind of language you would normally use in Greek to refer to one person as both your Lord and your God. But this is not the language Thomas used. He used a language convention which Greek speakers would use when they wanted to refer to two persons, "the Lord of me and the God of me." Verse 17 (John 20:17) is also highly significant here. Jesus says he will ascend to "the Father of you and Father of me and God of you and God of me." This is the kind of language a Greek speaker would use if he wanted to refer to just one person. He did not say he will ascend to, "the Father of you and the Father of me and the God of you and the God of me." This fact tells us that John was definitively selective about his language structures and would use the verse 17 language structure when he wanted to refer to one person. John did not use this one person language structure when he wrote John 20:28. He does not record Thomas as saying, "the Lord and God of me." Rather, he used the language structure used by Greek speakers to refer to two persons, "the Lord of me and the God of me." Additionally, it is also significant that Thomas did not say, "the Lord and the God of me." Rather, he said, "the Lord of me and the God of of me." We can take into example and compare the following two verses that will be listed below. If the first verse below refers to two persons, the second verse is very evident as to which structure has been used: This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. (1 Jn. 2:22) Thomas answered and said to him, "the Lord of me and the God of me." (Jn. 20:28) However, this language structure is occasionally used in Scripture when referring to one person. For example, it is sometimes used to draw a distinction between two different roles that one person might serve (see John 13:13-14). So even though this is the language construction used by Greek speakers to refer to more two persons, this fact alone does not make it certain. Therefore, we must ask ourselves if there is additional information in our Bible which demonstrates Thomas was referring to two persons. And the answer to that question is, "Yes, there is additional information in the Scriptures which demonstrates that Thomas was referring to two persons." 4. Thomas' God IS Jesus Christ's God Trinitarians seem to be completely blind and or remaining ignorant of what is actucally in front of them when it comes to the fact that any mention of the true God is necessarily a reference to Jesus Christ's God. This is inescapable since there is only one God. So when Thomas says, "my God" he is necessarily referring to Jesus Christ's God, that is, the Father. I ascend to my Father and your Father and my God and your God. Thomas is necessarily referring to Jesus Christ's God when he says "my God" is inescapable since there is only one God. And indeed, Jesus had just affirmed this fact at John 20:17. Therefore, Thomas is necessarily referring to the Father. And that fact speaks directly to what the entire Gospel of John is about. 5. The Holy Spirit Proceeds from THE FATHER At John 20:28, Jesus had risen from the dead but Thomas would not believe this unless he had seen Jesus for himself. Now, carefully compare these verses: John 15:26 - But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me. John 20:21-22 - (21) Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” (22) And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. John 14:20 - In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. (see 14:9-11) Jesus breathed the Spirit out from himself yet he already promised them that it would be the Spirit which proceeds from THE FATHER. "In that day, you will know..." Thomas knew. Jesus was in the Father and the Father was in Jesus. Analysis of the Facts 1. The Context: Seeing and Believing But Thomas called, Didymus (Didymus which means "the twin", also a surname of the Apostle Thomas), one of the 12, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples said to him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” After 8 days his disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see my hands and reach here and put your hand into my side and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are they who do not see, and yet believe.” John 20:24-29 John 20:24-29 - (24) Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. (25) So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” (26) Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” (27) Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.” (28) Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (29) Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” The context of John 20:28 involves the theme of seeing and believing. The risen Jesus had already appeared to the disciples but Thomas was not present. So when they declared they had seen Jesus, Thomas declared he would not believe Jesus had risen until he had seen Jesus for himself complete with the wounds in his hands and side. Jesus then appeared to Thomas and said, "Reach here with your finger, and see my hands, and reach here your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believing." And after Thomas responded to him, Jesus responds back to Thomas, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are they who do not see, and yet believe." It is quite clear that seeing and believing is the point of this account. 2. Seeing and Believing: What Jesus had taught Thomas and the disciples In the Gospel of John, Jesus informs his disciples that he is going away and they become very troubled. But he tells them not to be troubled for they know they way. But they are still confused so Jesus explains: And you know the way where I am going.” Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going, how do we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father." The context of John 20:28 is seeing and believing. Jesus had taught Thomas and his disciples about seeing and believing. To see Jesus was not to see just one person but two persons: (1) Jesus their Lord, and (2) their God and Father Jesus also explained to them precisely how they had seen the Father. In the next breath, Jesus said, "the Father abiding in me does the works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, otherwise believe because of the works themselves." (John 14:10-11). At John 12:44-45, Jesus made a similar declaration to the Jews where he said that to see/believe him was to see/believe the One who sent him. To know Jesus was to know the Father; to believe in Jesus was to believe in the Father; to see Jesus was to see the Father. This is because Jesus was sent by the Father to speak and do works in his Father's name. And even more so, it was the Father abiding in him that did the works. In this way, Jesus was the Father's Word of Truth. And in this way, Jesus explains, they had seen the Father when they had seen Jesus. At John 1:18, John tells us that no one has ever seen God but the only begotten in the bosom of the Father declares/explains HIM. This is precisely what Jesus is talking about in chapter 14 in the Gospel of John when he teaches his disciples about seeing and believing. To see Jesus is to see the Father. To see Jesus is to see not just one person but two persons. The text says Thomas said these words to Jesus. The text does not say that Thomas "called" Jesus "God." Why then would Thomas say these words to Jesus? We are explicitly told why by Jesus in the Gospel of John. To see Jesus was to see someone else: his Father. To see Jesus was to see not just one person but two. And that is precisely what Thomas is confessing at John 20:28. 3. In that Day you will know Carefully compare these two teachings from Jesus: John 14:9-10 - (9) Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? (10) Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. John 14:20 - In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. Jesus is telling us disciples that they would fully realize the truth of this matter "on that Day." That day is when he rose from the dead. "After a little while the world will no longer see me, but you will see me; because I live, you will live also. In that day you will know I am in my Father. (14:19-20). He also taught them that the Spirit would remind them of everything he had just taught them (14:26). On that Day, the disciples would know that Jesus was in the Father. And again, Jesus had breathed the Spirit into his disciples, that same Spirit which he said proceeds from THE FATHER and which he would send to them. This happened because he was raised in the Spirit and glory of the Father when God raised him from the dead. The Lord IS the Spirit (2 Cor. 3:17; 1 Cor. 14:45) and for that reason, he could breathe the Spirit out from himself, the Spirit that proceeds from the Father. When we put all these facts together, the answer is clear, undeniable and very understandable. To see Jesus is to see the Father. To see Jesus was to see two persons, Jesus and the Father. Jesus taught Thomas and the disciples that they would know in that Day that Jesus was in the Father. The reason for Thomas' words is clearly explained in the Scriptures in this selfsame Gospel of John. Conclusion Since there is only one God, Thomas was necessarily referring to Jesus Christ's God when he said, "my God." When all the evidence is put before us, there is simply no doubt that Thomas was affirming Jesus' earlier teaching to him, that to see and believe in Jesus was to see and believe in the Father, the God of Jesus, the God of Thomas (20:17). Jesus himself tells us in this Gospel that he declared/explained the Father in terms of everything he said and did. John tells us the same thing - Jesus came so that we might know the Father, the true God (1 John 5:20). He is the Way to the Father and through Him we know the Father. Jesus explained that they saw the Father when they saw Jesus because the Father abiding in him did the works (14:9-10). How much more then was the Father abiding in that dead body which had the Father had risen from the dead by the power of His Holy Spirit which proceeds from THE FATHER and which Jesus breathed into his disciples (see 20:21-22). Since seeing Jesus meant seeing the Father, Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God. Thomas is confessing what the entire Gospel of John is about. Jesus made the Father known to the people of the world. The only begotten declares/explains the Father. For that reason, to see Jesus is to see the Father. To see the Lord Jesus is to see the Father, our God, and Jesus Christ's God. John 20:29 - Blessed are you Thomas. Because you have seen, you have believed. John 12:44-45 - (44) And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. (45) And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. John 20:28 - My Lord and my God.
  13. Space Merchant

    I am the Christ

    You do realize how religious leaders position were in scripture? perhaps those who lead, speak and give insight to the tribes they lead? It is not outlandish for Jehovah's Witnesses to have religious leaders. As it was said by the Son of Man, in context, one shepherd to one flock, such ones together in Christ, as one, and such ones adhere to the teachings and learn of God the Father accordingly, such ones do not tolerance interfaith teachings that are clearly not of the church, let alone such ones do not take in the traditions of man into the church, I believe I mentioned something along the lines before. Also it is worth to note that even those who do not agree with JWs, they agree with CTR, on the other side of the spectrum, there is hypocrisy though coming from the non-religious camps.
  14. Space Merchant

    Will only Jehovah's Witnesses be saved?

    Yes. Jesus did say the path is very narrow, as I said before to others here, God knows who is for him, mainly those who take total seriousness in what His Word means, and what he has enabled his prophets, including his Son, to make known to us. For this is why, according to Paul, we thank God the Father for our Lord Jesus Christ, for clearly accurate truth allows us to see and be prepared of what is to come, especially when it comes to obstacles to the very goal we are aiming for, hence we endure and remain vigilant.
  15. Space Merchant

    The Holy Spirit

    The storm trooper avatar of mine is due to someone I know, was an avid star wars fan when he was alive, he always dressed up as a storm trooper many many times even at random, and my avatars elsewhere is the same thing, it poses as a reminder for all my avatars is storm trooper related. Compared to me, my friend was not as bible savvy, but he always did like learning of what the scriptures say for the both of us were not fans of the badness taking place in the world, moreover, he was not the fastest learner when it came to this stuff, for back then, he wanted me to explain Revelations when he went into it randomly, at the time, I had no idea and was very confused with Revelations, but today, I am well aware of what it means, hence when I began learning the bible even more, I started from Revelations and read to Genesis. But yeah, as clumsy as storm troopers are, they tend to be a reminder of something for some people, for me, anything related to storm troopers poses as a reminder for me. Unlike storm troopers though, when I aim with scripture, it always hits, sometimes it hits rather way too well to the point it tends to surprise me and I am not the type of person to be surprised easily either. My laser fire is truth, the truth is the scriptures.