George88

Unlike other apostate posts, this one you voice a complaint which lacks a coherent commentary to support your argument, Tom, or Xero?

Yes, you will indeed find the pattern of a Christian life followed by most witnesses, just not in this place. Their actions alone should be enough to convey their message, without the need for any further claims. I understand that you may have some issues with God and Christ, but rest assured that they will deal with them in due time. Well, this is just a convoluted way of thinking, since we are living in the 21st century applying Christ's first century teachings. Therefore, what is not true is your way of thinking. Absolutely! God's Holy Spirit is indeed in charge. Have you ever considered the countless instances in the Bible where God guided and redirected the Israelites and His people? It's truly remarkable how His divine intervention played out! What part of that don't you understand? For those who genuinely repent, this is a practical approach. Seeing that Jesus was dining with a Pharisee to make a point, it would be reasonable to expect that someone with a well-informed conscience would be allowed to greet a disfellowshipped individual who shows a sincere desire to return to God. However, Tom's perspective seems to overlook the importance of fellowship in this scenario. That's precisely why the title is structured that way - as you've just demonstrated. Former witnesses often lack evidence, and are clueless when evidence is presented. It seems they simply enjoy boasting about nonsense, as you just have. It appears that they possess a superior understanding of evidence and the divine purpose guiding this world, surpassing your comprehension.

Why don't former members of Jehovah's Witnesses recognize the impact that other religions have on societies as a whole here? This site appears more interested in maintaining the status quo within their misconceived hierarchy, rather than actually making a meaningful contribution to the discussion about finding temporary solutions to the pressing issue troubling even those outside the community: the evil afflicting humanity at the hands of Satan by not separating church and state in their arguments. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nuns-defy-vatican-and-seek-a-restraining-order-against-bishop/ss-AA1nzW9o?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=3c9a19f4fa9b43d3a7bd8ceaa485848b&ei=20#image=4 This week, Texas nuns are defying a Vatican order to vacate their Monastery after the Vatican issued a decree concerning their order. The nuns are now seeking government intervention by requesting a restraining order. However, a District Judge dismissed a previous order on the grounds it lacked jurisdiction. In a striking turn of events, a French court went against the Vatican's sovereignty and issued a groundbreaking judgment in support of an excommunicated nun, thereby challenging the authority of a sovereign nation. It seems that the French Court overlooked a crucial fact when it ruled that the Vatican could not excommunicate a nun for violating the bylaws that govern any religious order. The notion of "chastity" and its significance in the Catholic faith extends far beyond any criminal accusation. The French nun's struggle with "obedience" and failure to communicate is also noteworthy in her role as a high-profile teacher. It mirrors the biblical teachings on sexual morality, and obedience to authority serves as a guiding principle for believers. There are, however, numerous theories surrounding these two issues, and I'm confident that people will contribute their own unique perspectives to them. The French government's actions concerning the Vatican City's "Holy See", which is equivalent to the Watchtower Governing Body for the Catholic Faith, are a sovereign nation recognized by all nations of the world. Not only is it concerning, but also reminiscent of the restrictions being imposed on other organizations, such as the Watchtower, by other governments. Such interference in the affairs of a sovereign nation sets a troubling precedent. What the French government is essentially saying is that they have the right to intervene and dictate to another nation. This verdict is essentially what it implies. https://apnews.com/article/vatican-france-nun-pope-marie-ferreol-ouellet-937da5e4b91b3b591b72b9edeb4a1f76 In this case, apostates of Jehovah's Witnesses and some witnesses not in good standing serve as referees and consider disfellowshipping to be a barbaric action, even though it is supported by scripture and implemented in the bylaws of other religious institutions according to bible canon. Even though scripture doesn't specifically mention the words "excommunicate" or "disfellowship," it implies consequences for those who have a heavy heart after committing serious transgressions against God, and have no desire to repent. In another thread, the topic of repentance and being unrepentant was brought up. Is it possible to guide an unrepentant soul towards receiving God's grace, or does the individual need to show a genuine desire to repent on their own? God demands that we demonstrate true repentance through our behavior. This new understanding, as highlighted by the Watchtower GB, shows that there is a pathway to fellowship for those who have strayed from God's teachings. Upon demonstrating genuine repentance, they can be accepted back into God's hands. Is it the spiritual leader's responsibility to coerce or convince a sinner to repent? No, that decision belongs between God and the individual. The church's obligation is to keep the congregation free from negative influences. In the time before the New Testament, God communicated his wishes through the prophets. This was God's will. 2 Chronicles 7:14 New International Version 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. A person who truly repents should be shown leniency, as stated in scriptures such as Matthew, Luke, Acts, 1 Peter, and 1 John, etc. However, this leniency does not apply to those who choose to remain unrepentant. The words of the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 still apply to those whose conduct willfully denies the Lord through their personal actions and behavior. Now, how do other institutions view those steps? https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/8-signs-true-repentance/ So, to whom should a devoted follower of Christ listen? They should prioritize attentiveness to scripture and adhere to the word of God. Moreover, they should comprehend those teachings that align with the principles of Christ, as conveyed by their spiritual leaders. One confusion has arisen due to Tom's interpretation of the Governing Body's update number #2. He mistakenly assumes that Jehovah's Witnesses are allowed to associate with disfellowshipped individuals and therefore are in harmony with the spirit of update # 2. However, reading his comments elsewhere, it is clear that Tom is spreading misinformation. It is important to clarify that we are not "free" to associate with disfellowshipped individuals, as some may wrongly infer from Tom's words. The truth is quite the opposite. The Brothers update suggests the following: 18. When a person has been removed from the congregation, we “stop keeping company”with that person, “not even eating with such a man.” (1 Cor. 5:11) However, as explained and demonstrated in the 2024 Governing Body Update #2, if the person attends congregation meetings, a publisher can use his Bible-trained conscience to decide if he will give a simple greeting and welcome the disfellowshipped person to the meeting or not. 19. A Christian may also choose to invite a disfellowshipped person—perhaps a relative, a former Bible student, or someone he was close to in the past—to attend a congregation meeting. This update does not in any way imply a casual association with a disfellowshipped individual, as some people may interpret through their own subjective understanding of the publications from the Watchtower. The contact with a disfellowshipped individual remains with the Elders of the congregation whether they progress in repentance or not. One of the signs of the end times is the increasing tendency of governments to perceive religion as merely another institution governed by rules, rather than as a sacred system of spiritual principles. This shift may enable more meaningful discussions about global political perspectives based on religious scriptures rather than individual opinions. Therefore, when faced with attempts to trick him, how did Jesus handle secular political issues in Matthew 22:17-21? These issues regarding the nuns should be addressed in the same way that Jesus did, by separating church and state, which those nuns failed to do.

Manuel, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but considering that you have openly admitted it here, I strongly suggest that you refrain from using your actual name. Instead, opt for a different alias, much like James does with his amusingly named "Pudgy". Either that, or remain in the close club where people are indifferent to causing offense.

It's great that you're keeping a positive attitude. However, on judgment day, will God still find your laughter amusing? Also, it's important to remember that many witnesses secretly celebrate their birthdays, believing they are fooling others.

I was inspired by that Christmas song nonsense. Rather than getting involved in fruitless arguments with someone determined to disrupt and spread hate towards me and the Watchtower, I have made the choice to present the essential questions that I believe should be asked to apostates and disfellowshipped individuals. It's not worth investing time in someone who is dealing with mental illness. Now, for others that have sense enough: Proverbs 26:11-13 English Standard Version 11 Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. 12 Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him. 13 The sluggard says, “There is a lion in the road! There is a lion in the streets!” Will the unrepentant inherit the earth? God demands repentance from his creation. What drives people to believe they are superior and go against God with their words and actions? This behavior is damaging to the soul, leading to unrighteousness and ultimately to personal downfall. The core of this fundamental truth lies in the eternal question of good versus evil, righteousness versus unrighteousness. The distinction between becoming a bearer of truth and a dissenter of truth is crucial. How can one truly discern the path of becoming a teacher of truth rather than falling into the trap of becoming a dissenter? Biblically, there are only two paths that God has given that Christ mentioned. Matthew 7:13-14 What is the point of living a Christian life that is not in harmony with God's will? This leads us to the judgment of conscience by Christ. Those who willfully understand their own actions and behavior will be judged as unrighteous according to God's laws. Those who have not come to know God or whose lives were cut short without knowing God's laws will be given the opportunity to know God through Christ in the resurrection, but not before. There is no place on this Earth where the word of God is not being transmitted, in one form or another, by religious groups. Even in the most remote areas, indigenous people can witness the relentless efforts of Christian organizations who aim to connect with them, regardless of any objections they may have, in order to bridge cultural gaps. Before the arrival of Judgment Day, everyone will come to understand God's purpose for humanity. Ignorance of God's purpose and truth will be non-existent. By then, we will all possess this knowledge. The only distinction will be that some individuals whose lives were prematurely ended by the actions of others have been spared from experiencing it firsthand. So, what is the purpose of being a dissenter knowing what fate that awaits those individuals that cannot be changed? Romans 1:29-31 English Standard Version 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

That's intriguing! Are there any other songs you believe that possess a Pagan essence? Does your church hymns exalt God or yourself?

You consistently demonstrate yourself to be nothing more than a disciple of the devil, as evidenced by your adherence to false claims. What is the foundation of your truth, built upon such deceitful assertions? You constantly make it all about yourself, even though you are insignificant. Consequently, you surround yourself with individuals you aim to impress, whereas I focus on influencing those who possess a superior moral compass, revealing the deceitful methods employed by the opposing side.

Impressive plot twist. I'm not referring to you, Pudgy, even though your behavior now mirrors your behavior before being disfellowshipped. I'm not also talking about diehard apostates like Srecko and, Matthew. Their actions speak for themselves. The question is: Who are the impostors claiming to be Jehovah's witnesses and pretending to be active members with ulterior motives? I have already identified some, and a few new ones have emerged to spread their negativity in the open forum just like in a closed club. What additional evidence do I need to present besides the evidence I have already gathered with their behavior, and presented for the public to see? There are thousands upon thousands of posted pages to prove it. Please stop distorting my words like JWI does; it's pathetic. I have a question for them: why do they "accept apostasy," particularly when they fail to defend God? What is the point of being known as a Jehovah's Witness and acting like a Pharisee? Let me know if that makes sense to anyone. You persist in obfuscating, choking and using double standards, which ultimately holds no weight. You consistently demonstrate that the original post is correct in all aspects, particularly you Pudgy, a verified dishonest individual. So, what kind of proof do I need to offer that you won't accept as a nobody? Therefore, who cares what you think?

If you're willing to sell the closed club and the open forum, I can transform it into an authentic Jehovah's Witness website that truly reflects the values of God, rather than those of disgruntled men and women. I understand your desire to connect with like-minded individuals, and follow men instead of God. With your kind of reasoning, you can create your own religion and leave the Watchtower alone. Hundreds of thousands do, and they lead a productive life not consumed by hate as it is done here. I find the logo of ApostateBuster to be quite appealing, personally. That way, you won't have any reason to argue about the GB or Elders anymore. It's inevitable that once you assume such a responsibility in your newly formed religion, in whatever approach you believe will captivate people, someone will inevitably find fault with your methods and references to Christianity. So, the real question becomes: how will you respond? I am aware of a church composed of former Jehovah's Witnesses who are not concerned with the activities of the Watchtower organization. Their primary focus is spreading the message of Christ to people. Despite having a different interpretation of the Bible, they are committed to following God's commands rather than those of men, which sets them apart from the prevailing practices, here. Surely, like any church, this particular one has encountered its share of critics, despite their sincere efforts to embrace even the most marginalized individuals. On certain occasions, they were compelled to involve the authorities and safely remove disruptive individuals from their place of worship. It is quite evident that those who resorted to criticizing the notion of "shunning" failed to grasp its true meaning, and as a result, were forcefully excommunicated from the church. What is more ironic is, in some occasions they found it necessary to sign a no trespass complaint. Now, that's shunning! But, hey, you live and learn right! Even when you're wrong! In this world, you can't please everyone, especially the incorrigible.

In essence, what you're suggesting is to let falsehoods go unchecked and disregard them. However, the issue lies in the fact that you people keep identifying yourself as Jehovah's Witnesses and continue to behave as hypocrites and Pharisees. If this were to change and this forum name reflected as any other apostate website, there would be no need to confront dishonesty as visitors would already be aware. In this way, it wouldn't matter what kind of absurdity you have to present. It would be straightforward. As visitors witness, I stand with God. Can you honestly state the same without feeling consumed by fire?

By the way, when you posted the article on Russell, what did you do, if not "cut" and "paste." Learn to think!

I'm not referring to hardened apostates who are beyond redemption or to disfellowshipped individuals who have already lost their souls. These foolish individuals have sealed their fate before God. Since their lives didn't matter to them, it sure doesn't matter to me.

I incorporate biblical guidance into my daily life in various ways. This is particularly important for me when dealing with foolish individuals. James 5:20 New International Version 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins. What justifications do people provide for your behavior here, especially those that call themselves JWs? What are you advocating for? What advantages are you providing? In the realm of the Bible, the focus lies not on one's self, but rather on the contributions one can make to others as devoted disciples of Christ. Before embarking on your journey to teach scripture, it is crucial to learn, seek counsel and guidance from scripture to ensure you approach it in the right manner.

Tom, let me clarify something. I refuse to bear the blame for the situation, it's your associates who are responsible. You have completely misjudged me. I treat others based on how they treat me. If Pete, Srecko, or James choose to insult me, they are the ones initiating it, not me. Understand this clearly. The only contrast is, you, JWI and whoever is controlling this site have the power to ban people because you want to protect your illusion of a perfect environment. Stop insinuating that you are the victims here. In reality, people like me are the victims. How many hundreds have you banned over the course of a decade to protect apostates, the disfellowshipped, disgruntled witnesses, and James? If you want to continue down this path, remember that you can't critique without being critiqued. I may have a multitude of complaints surpassing those of all of you combined, yet I have made a conscious decision to adhere to God's commands and the teachings of Christ. Nothing in this world should hold a more steadfast position in one's pursuit of salvation.

The focus should be on enhancing the experience for visitors instead of trying to engage in illogical discussions with irrational individuals that just want to fight like little school children. Scripture emphasizes controlling our tongue because words have the power to bring life or death, to build up or tear down. Our tongue has the ability to either bless or curse, and its impact is far-reaching. By controlling our tongue, we can cultivate wisdom, show love, and bring healing to others. Scripture guides us to use our words for good and to bring glory to God through the way we speak. NAS Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit. (Prov. 18:21 NAS) Where does it state in Proverbs that God is kidding? DEATH AND LIFE. NAS Proverbs 13:3 The one who guards his mouth preserves his life; The one who opens wide his lips comes to ruin. (Prov. 13:3 NAS) NAS James 1:26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless. (Jas. 1:26 NAS) NAS 1 Peter 3:10 For, "Let him who means to love life and see good days Refrain his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile. (1 Pet. 3:10 NAS) NAS Revelation 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8 NAS) What is the second death? It is a permanent death without resurrection, redemption, or pardon, just like what Satan will experience in the end. This is why words matter, as well as one's mindset, since they lead us to our actions and behavior, and ultimately to our own destruction if not tamed. Therefore, there is no justification for criticizing what God views as good. The Watchtower is not saying it, God is telling us.

It is disheartening that individuals continue to affirm the validity of the original post. Even those who support Satan fail to speak the truth; they simply prefer to behave in a reprehensible manner, further confirming the point raised.

I will expose fake Jehovah's Witnesses like you and those in the closed club who disrespect God by using his name in a blasphemous manner. Does that sufficiently address the question posed by a foolish person? Pudgy What is the reason for starting another conflict, or is it that Tom is unable to control his dog?

We often speculate without evidence, but this should not lead us to infer falsehoods. This is the devil's deceptive tactic and is designed to conceal the truth with lies. If we dare to assert that there is no devil, we can find evidence to support the idea of where humanity inherited sin from since there is a devil.

That's undeniable. It appears that's how Tom utilizes it for conducting research for his books. It seems he grew weary of venturing into apostate sites as Vic the parrot to gather information. Nonetheless, the Watchtower has more important matters to attend to than browsing through purported fake sites. That's why they simply advise "true" followers to avoid apostate or fake sites, much like this one.

I don't mind having conversations with anyone. However, I strongly oppose those who choose to behave with disrespect and incivility. They will face the consequences of their actions. I have no trouble confronting people and calling them out for their disrespectful behavior.

😂 I have no doubt about it, Pudgy. I've said it before. I am likely interacting with many individuals, with a cast of thousands. 😂

Why do you think I stick around James? You're my entertainment. But at least I'm truthful. By the way, thanks for saying "WE" now I know to include you in the list of librarians as well as "Witness" the Pearl Doxsey lover.

I'm not intimidated by you or JWI just because you both happen to be librarians. If you're angry enough to ban me, just like you have done to countless others who speak the truth and disrupt your research with apostates, then go ahead. You're just one clique away. You should really be directing that sentiment towards Pudgy and making sure to keep him on a leash.

Did I initiate this political conversation, or was it your friend Pudgy? I merely corrected a falsehood. Are you implying that falsehoods should go unchallenged, as you seem to suggest? Why do you find it necessary to argue about it now? Are you upset about me exposing James for who he is? Why should real witnesses care about any of those events? Why should any witness defend a disfellowshipped person? Just to clarify, Pudgy was the one who got outraged at the political event, not me. If you have any concerns, please direct them towards him and refrain from provoking a conflict with me.