6 hours ago, Arauna said:

My sister (who is not a Witness) painted a beautiful painting of all the vices on earth.   And there was a very thick book on the table......   I asked her what it meant...... and she said to me:  "knowledge is a gross sin when it is idolatrous - when knowledge is self-serving."   I totally agreed.

Knowledge (as I said before) is an ego-trip when it does not serve others.  One makes yourself an idol.  The bible says: "knowledge puffs up."   Knowledge in itself puffs up..... it must be combined with the fruitages of the Spirit to produce humility, modesty and the other qualities one needs to truly be benevolent and motivate one to serve others, such as preaching!

Wisdom - is knowledge put to use to serve others and benefit others.   Jehovah in all his knowledge uses this only to benefit others.  Jesus, kept his own opinions to himself and used his wisdom to benefit others .....and only spoke the words which Jehovah gave him to speak.... Perfect obedience - not like humans who like to be on the forefront of knowledge....me included.....  I have to pummel myself and stamp out that ego sometimes.

All this bla-bla about being sophisticated and discuss all matters like intelligent adults, is just a front to self-serve personal ideas and create doubt or division among brothers.   Other churches who visit this website are doing so - not because they want to learn something - but merely to sow doubt......They oppose the slave and their ideas.  They do not care if their ideas are only from one person  - in contrast with our organization which now has committees which approve what goes into every publication.. They are pretending to be angels of light....or maybe believe themselves zealots with 'special insights' from God?

Even if you offer biblical scriptures or even good secular sources - forget it- they are here to teach - not to learn!  They are here with other motives! The thrill is in the fight... or to sow doubt! 

 

By the way - all these terrorist attacks is an escalation - intensifying of the sign.  'Security' of citizens will again be the main subject on lawgiver's minds until the next strikes - I think ...... lol.....  

Russia, Finland, USA, Spain all in a matter of a few days....

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately one of the girls killed in Finland was one of our sisters. https://www.jw.org/en/news/#newsAlerts

Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible does not differ essentially from Orthodox Bible

BIBLE TRANSLATION MADE BY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES RULED "EXTREMIST" IN R.F.

Portal-Credo.Ru, 19 August 2017

The Vyborg city court of Leningrad province on 17 August recognized one of the translations of the Bible ("New World Translation" adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses) as "extremist material," a Portal-Credo.Ru correspondent reports. At the same time, in Russia there is a law in effect, adopted in 2015, that prohibits recognizing the Bible "as extremist materials," while the question about translations is not dealt with in the law.

The New World Translation does not fundamentally differ from the Synodal translation, which is most widely distributed in Russia. In their translation, the Jehovah's Witnesses only tried to downplay the "trinitarian" fragments and also to use the name Jehovah as often as possible.  An expert conclusion, on the basis of which the court issued its decision, recognized as "extremist" in particular the fragment of the Old Testament where God's destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is described.

The judicial act, unprecedented in human history, was made by Judge Dmitry Grishin, a kandidat of jurisprudence and past chairman of the department of civil law of the A.S. Pushkin Leningrad University. "To recognize 'Sacred Scripture—New World Translation' as extremist material," the verdict says. "To recognize as extremist materials the brochures 'The Bible and its Main Theme,' 'Science Instead of the Bible?' and 'How to Improve Health. 5 Simple Rules.' To confiscate the batch of the aforesaid literature."

The court's decision has not taken effect and it may be appealed within 30 days. Reporting from the courtroom was posted on the website of the Jehovah' Witnesses in Russia. (tr. by PDS, posted 19 August 2017)

Court decided that Jehovah's Witnesses' Bible is not Christian

COURT RULES ESSENTIAL BOOKS OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES PROHIBITED

by Mikhail Telekhov

RAPSI, 18 August 2017

The Vyborg city court of Leningrad province recognized several books of the Jehovah's Witnesses as extremist and forbidden for distribution on Russian territory, RAPSI was told on Friday in the court.

"A lawsuit was filed in court by the Leningrad-Finland transport prosecutor," the court specified.

The transport prosecutor's office explained that the court recognized these books to be prohibited: "Sacred Scripture. New World Translation," "Science Instead of the Bible," "How to Improve Health," and "The Bible and its Chief Topic."

The news agency's interlocutor said that these are the most important propaganda and religious materials of the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses banned in Russia. "Within the framework of this civil trial, the court was able to get around the equation of 'Sacred Scripture' with the Synodal translation of the canonical Bible, which the law forbids to regard as extremist. As a result, experts drew the conclusion of the independent character of paradigms that are foundational for Jehovah's Witnesses, emphasizing that it is not related to essential principles of Christian teaching," the prosecutor's office explained.

It was reported at the court that after the court's decision takes legal effect it will be sent to the Russian Ministry of Justice for inclusion of the aforementioned books in the Federal List of Extremist Materials. (tr. by PDS, posted 18 August 2017)

Court's ban of Bible defies logic and common sense

COURT BANS MODERN TRANSLATION OF BIBLE IN RUSSIA

Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 18 August 2017

Late in the evening of 17 August 2017, the Vyborg city court announced a decision: to recognize as extremist material the translation of the Bible into modern Russian, which was seized from Jehovah's Witnesses at customs. All of the seized batch should be confiscated with the goal of subsequent destruction. This decision has not taken legal effect and will be appealed in the Leningrad provincial court.

Russia became the first European country to officially prohibit a translation of the Bible. The historic decision was issued by Judge Dmitry Grishin on a declaration of the prosecutor's office. During the many hours of sessions, Grishin was presented adequate opportunity to be persuaded that it is the Bible that is the object of the judicial investigation, a book which by law cannot be ruled to be extremist material. In the sessions, dozens of fragments were read from it, whole reams of various editions of the Bible were presented, and comparisons and contrasts of texts were conducted. Judge Grishin directly read dozens of texts from the Bible. The most authoritative specialists in the area of linguistics and religious studies where summoned to the trial from Moscow, who answered all questions of the sides and judge. Representatives of the prosecutor's office, who sought the ban of the Bible, were not able to identify a single biblical quotation that, in their opinion, could be considered extremist. Nevertheless, to universal amazement, the court made the decision to recognize the Bible as extremist material.

At the base of this lawsuit lies the expert conclusion of Natalia Kriukova, who did not introduce a single quotation from the text of the Bible but nevertheless came to the conclusion that this book is extremist material. The logic of this expert conclusion consists in the fact that this Bible is extremist material because it is used by Jehovah's Witnesses. The court ignored other scientific conclusions, expert analyses, and reviews existing in the case, which prove conclusively that Kriukova's conclusion is unscientific and contradictory, and that the Bible, which is the object of the lawsuit, really is the Bible. It is noteworthy that mathematics teacher Natalia Kriukova does not have education giving her the right to conduct this investigation.

Judge Dmitry Grishin is a kandidat of jurisprudence. When lawyers pointed out to him that this translation of the Bible is included in the catalogue of translations of the Bible published by the American Library of Congress, Grishin told the sides that he has engaged in his own scientific research for many days in the Library of Congress. Nevertheless, on 17 August 2017 Grishin issued a decision to prohibit the Bible, a decision which contradicts science, the law, and common sense. (tr. by PDS, posted 18 August 2017)

On 8/18/2017 at 9:29 PM, Anna said:

Yes, I believe the true faith is a minority too. The scriptures tell us so. We don't believe in the trinity, immortality of the soul and no Jehovah in NT do we?  Why include that in the mix with visible parousia and king in 33 C.E. though? Does that make it wrong just because the majority believe that? The majority also believe other things that we as JWs believe also.

Just as a side issue, I noticed that in the new 2013 NWT there are several instances where we changed the wording to be more in line  with other (Christendom's) translations.  You know the saying,  truth is truth no matter who says it

Read more  

I and Jehovah's Witnessses believe that Satan is misleading the entire earth including the religious element. There is a reason for the widespread beliefs that are false and are in the majority. {I included those as examples] Of course the majority including us believe in the ransom but as you should know it is not the same now is it? Since they believe he was not fully man corresponding to Adam... Yes I have many different Bible Translations in my official library many with wording similar to the 2013 edition of the NWT : THEOCRATIC HERITAGE LIBRARY BOOK STORE AND DIVINE NAME MUSEUM DISPLAYS -.http://www.ebay.com/gds/Collecting-Watchtower-Research-Books-/10000000188341192/g.html  . But Jehovah is ONE and there is only one true religion despite being 40,000 Christian sects on Earth but Jehovah does not use them to preach the good news of the KINGDOM. https://www.jw.org/en/; https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/jw.org

You know the saying,  truth is truth no matter who says it: Yes Satan did tell the truth to Jesus now didnt he.  And since he is the god of this world then his minions, who are everywhere including here on the internet, can also tell the truth. But that is not all there is to it now is it .  Satan often presents a truth in such a way to persuade one to believe in a lie as some here do as well being an angel of light or an "insider" of JW theology !!!Mt 7, 2 Cor. 11:14;  {WT 01 8/1 "Your Right to Believe".} https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=truth

Jesus said "by their fruits "you would recognize both true and false. Not by teachings of chronology. Ask yourself why believe a blogger from the internet who you do not even know whos fruits are of a haughty nature with very long posts and thinks he has "inside" info into the Organization yet is just an internet blogger with no way to verify anything, why he could be a predator apostate there is no way of knowing except by their fruits, does he strengthen or weaken your faith with critical words against Jehovah's people as Korah and his 250 followers did?.

10 hours ago, Anna said:

This is the kind of comment that lands people who make it, out of the truth. May you never be stumbled.

Agreed.  "and the people began to fear Jehovah and to put faith in Jehovah AND in his servant Moses". And we know the "rest of the story" of how some were stumbled because of not having respect and loyalty to Jehovah AND the one "taking the lead". "Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you+and be submissive" Heb. 13:17. Trust that Jehovah has his organization in complete control like the Celestial Chariot in Ezekiel.

No need to be argumentative. Jesus exposed false teachings and those who promoted them calling them "hypocrites and offspring of vipers". Mt 23. Therefore I have the right to expose those here who likewise are disloyal to Jehovah's Organization, who claim to be brothers yet are very critical and not loyal to the FDS and the current teachings of revealed truths about 1914. So why attack ones who defend the truth as Jesus did?

"So how did that feel?"  Great because:

Abundant peace belongs to those loving your law, and for them there is NO stumbling block.”—PSALM 119:165.

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/ws20130315/loving-jehovah-no-stumbling-block/

 agape, Bruce

On 8/18/2017 at 6:49 PM, Anna said:

Why are you bringing this into the discussion?

I believe the true faith is a minority. Therefore its beliefs would not be shared by the majority such as Christendom in regards to the subjects under consideration. And I believe, as Jehovah's Witnesses also believe, that correct interpretation from God come from the "Faithful Slave" not from some bloggers on an internet site. 

To learn more of what we "really" believe instead of Christendoms propaganda as presented by a blogger look at JW.ORG for the truth about 1914 that Jehovah has given his people at the "proper" time for that teaching. Mt. 24:45.

We only "reject" if the Governing Body tells us so not some blogger on the internet who thinks they are a spirit-anointed channel of interpretation to the rest of us. LOL. This has already been explained and Daniel said it was hidden until the end. Dan. 12:4.  For further info see JW.ORG not some bloggers LOL You guys are hilarious. Bloggers good grief.   If the Faithful slave says it is so then it is so why should mice tell Jehovah what is true or false. 

I suppose if you and insider were Israelites leaving Egypt you would "complain" about why are we going in the wrong direction. The Chariot goes in the direction Jehovah wants even if we think it is right or wrong.  Look at least try and look at the big picture regarding Loyalty to Jehovah's Organization and its teachings. It is not rocket science really.

Unless of course you two are not really Jehovah's Witnesses then I completely understand. If so please answer the following question:

 Since you believe more in Christendom's chronology against 1914 rather than JW's please inform us if you also celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25th? 

 

The BibleÂ’s answer about 1914 and the Tree Dream

You see the Truth is simple not from a "blogger" on some internet site. LOL  https://www.jw.org/en/

52 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Perhaps I should not say this, but this discussion does not bother me. Nor does it do damage to the cause, even if Ms. Violin appears to hope it will. Historically, many have peered intensely into these things. They still are. It is nothing new that they do it here.

The big fat books we used to study, when explaining some teaching, would preface their remarks with: "it does not mean this' and 'it does not mean that." 'Why do they say what it does not mean?' the Circuit Overseer asked. 'Why don't they just say what it does mean?' It was for the sake of the old-timers, who were being called upon to unravel understandings they once had. Understandings come and go. I'll take the GB's current version because they have some tangible apparatus to show that what they spin has been blessed by God. God's spirit has moved countless volunteers to do things that they do nowhere else. I'm actually a little heartened to see some discuss at length things like this because "it ain't me, babe." I don't feel threatened by it. Let them quibble chronology till the cows come home and hope they are not missing the facts on the ground @Araunaspeaks of, for that is where the real proof of is - faith expressed in practical ways that no one else has gotten around to doing. This stuff is icing on the cake with innumerable variables arguable many ways.

Listen, I'm smart (if you are not fussy) yet this all goes over my head. It will do the same to everyone. Not so if I took hours to review and digest it, but I don't - the real truth is supported by deeds, and if there are no supporting deeds, then it is mere academic air and no one ought to get too worked up over it. Let the ones who have made it a special interest carry on with discussion. For personal reasons, there are a few non-spiritual subjects I know in considerable detail. Why should I object that some have made this theirs? I'll just interrupt here and there to insult @The Librarian.(the meddlesome hen)

I just like playing with mice but sometimes its a bit tiresome. With all four of them.

2 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

On everything important, I agree.

 

I'm not claiming that we need to interpret it. After all the Bible already gave the interpretation. As you said before:

If the Bible says that it already gave us the interpretation, don't we risk adding to or taking away from the words of the scroll if we decide that we need another interpretation? And it can also lead to all kinds of scriptural problems and inconsistencies, which so far no one has been able to respond to with scripture. A mere claim that "the Governing Body" has all interpretational authority is probably fine for most of us. But when the scriptures demand that we search them and not accept "a letter as though from us" on the topic of the parousia, but suggests that we use "reason" my own conscience tells me that I have a responsibility to follow the Bible as best I can and follow the lead of the Governing Body as best I can, too. Wherever there might be a difference, however, I think we know who we should obey.

• (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2) 2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ . . . we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.
• (Luke 21:8) . . .He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, . . . ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them. . .

• (Galatians 1:10) 10 Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave.

• (Acts 5:29) . . .: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

   

•  

 

It did not say a letter from us but "appearing" to be from us as someone claiming the interpreatational authority that God gave to those appointed by him.

by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.

So the question would be "Who really is the Faithful and Discreet slave"?

1 minute ago, JW Insider said:

That's fine as a philosophy, but the topic was the Scriptural point of view.

I personally believe that JW have the Scriptural point of view. Whereas Christendom although they say they do do not in regards to all that has been stated. No reason to argue I just think that interpretational authority belongs to the Governing Body not to any in Christendom or any bloggers trying to figure it all out.

1 minute ago, JW Insider said:

This was already covered previously in this thread, but I'll be happy to answer this again, too. Although I know that Ann also knows the Bible's answer to this topic, and would be happy for anyone to take the side of the Bible's advocate, here.

 

 

It is covered on Jw.org  that I quoted from. Jehovah's Witnesses interpretation is correct until JEHOVAH changes it. Not through a blogger but through the Governing Body.  No need for another interpretation but thanks anyway.

4 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

About the interpretation of Dan. 4? Daniel, of course.

Good we agree then  that Daniel did NOT know the interpretation since Daniel said it was hidden in his time and NOT revealed until time of the end.  Dan. 12:4 !!!!!

How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. JESUS indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.

The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6,14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.

Now finally since you believe in the chronology of Christendom against 1914 then do you celebrate Christmas also on December 25th  ????????

Since you believe in the chronology of Christendom then do you celebrate Christmas Ann ???

2 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Good question. Who is right about the application and fulfillment of Dan. 4? God (through Daniel) or JW.org?

So who is right? Jehovah's Witnesses or Christendom?

1 minute ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Off topic. Don't change the subject.

That is on topic since you believe in the teachings of Christendom do you celebrate Christmas? Not that hard to answer is it?

1 minute ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Blowing smoke then. You cannot make a robust defense, @bruceq. Perhaps someone else can help you. Anyone?

My defense is the Faithful Slave...yours is Christendom. Who is right Jehovah or Christendom?

Just now, Ann O'Maly said:

Blowing smoke then. You cannot make a robust defense, @bruceq. Perhaps someone else can help you. Anyone?

Since you cannot defend your position may I ask do you celebrate Christmas?

BTW Ann o Maly do you celebrate Christmas?

Just now, Ann O'Maly said:

All I see is JW.org's unsubstantiated assertions that there is a second fullfillment. So please, highlight the relevant part that gives Scriptural basis.

See above 

3 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

All I saw was JW.org's unsubstantiated assertions that it was so. So please, highlight the relevant part that gives Scriptural basis.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=27de0db2-f476-4aa1-a186-9fb992bb3358&insight[search_result_index]=11

I am not going to read it all to you I am sure you are literate enough to do it yourself. It is not that long unlike some here. LOL. It will take you less than 60 sec. to read it.

5 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

What 'greater fulfillment? Where does the Bible indicate that Dan. 4 has a fulfillment beyond Nebuchadnezzar. Book, chapter and verses, please.

Besides,

"Humans cannot know which Bible accounts are shadows of things to come and which are not. The clearest course is this: Where the Scriptures teach that an individual, an event, or an object is typical of something else, we accept it as such. Otherwise, we ought to be reluctant to assign an antitypical application to a certain person or account if there is no specific Scriptural basis for doing so." - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015204

So. Where is the Scriptural basis for the immense tree in Dan. 4 to represent Judah and God's rulership?

Read more  

see above JW.ORG. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=27de0db2-f476-4aa1-a186-9fb992bb3358&insight[search_result_index]=11    Perhaps you missed the explanation by the Faithful Slave of Jehovah's Witnesses.

The problem with Christendoms teachings is they often want just a verse without looking at the context of the entire Bible. And the fact that there is a faithful slave today to interpret it all for us not some bloggers. LOL 

25 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

 but the Watchtower needed this one to have TWO fulfillments to support a tradition.

51 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

 

http://www.livius.org/pictures/israel/gezer/the-gezer-calendar/

 

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/#?insight[search_id]=27de0db2-f476-4aa1-a186-9fb992bb3358&insight[search_result_index]=11 

ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from Christendoms point of view.

Rev. 6:4 "Take peace away from the EARTH" 

  Is the interpretation of Matthew 24 based on less likely, special definitions of Jehovah's Witnesses {minority view} Invisible parousia, Jesus King in 1914, God is not a Trinity, No immortal soul, Jehovah in NT...

OR on more likely common definitions of Christendom {Majority view} Visible parousia, Jesus King in 33 C.E or at birth, God is a Trinity, Soul is immortal, Jehovah not in NT...

What do you think?

  Would the true religion believe as the majority do on Mt. 24 or would they stand out as a minority interpretation - Does the Governing Body have the authority to interpret MT. 24 to us if what they say is at odds with Christendoms educated scholars and bloggers and the poster who says he has "special interpretation" !!! {see 7 posts down from this one if you don't believe me} yet his teachings are exactly as Christendom is  ? Mt. 7:13-23. Rev. 12:9. {Just because someone has studied flying does not mean he is authorized to fly the plane}. Heb. 13:17!!!

We are suppose to "get out of her my people" not go back to her my people. Rev 18:4.