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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    You misunderstood me.  I was only replying to Srecko's comment, in particular.. 
     
    Contrary to what you think, the WT is very much bothered by exjws and "opposers".  That's why they send out their sharks, to report back to the wolves about what's happening out there, with both exjws AND JWs.  
    If they weren't "bothered", they wouldn't be up in arms about "despicable apostates".  They wouldn't attempt to shut down exjw youtube channels.  
    You're really into the lawyer stuff and how necessary it is to guard your "watchtower".   Jesus condemned the lawyers in his day, because of their slanderous misuse and disregard for God's word, which is repeating itself in the organization.  Matt 23:13,15,23
    The Wt's "kingdom" is in the world, fighting its worldly battles. 
    Jesus' kingdom, is not.  John 18:36
     
     
     
     
     
     
  2. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    The GB would not bother giving the warning, or forbidding JWs to "go there",  if they didn't have their sharks hunting the waters for them, who then report to the wolves.   Or, maybe in their spare time, in the privacy of their own room, the wolves also visit the forums, and listen to videos.  So, the sharks and the GB are immune to what happens on the forums.  They can thwart any demonic persuasion that they may read, while the rank and file are too ignorant to protect themselves?  
    "I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Men will rise up even from your own number and distort the truth to lure the disciples into following them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I never stopped warning each one of you with tears."
    “lure the disciples into following them”. 
    These wolves will not tolerate competition.  They are fierce competitors, disguised as sheep who offer "fruit", that has distorted the truth in Jesus Christ.  Matt 7:15-19 
     
     
  3. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    The GB would not bother giving the warning, or forbidding JWs to "go there",  if they didn't have their sharks hunting the waters for them, who then report to the wolves.   Or, maybe in their spare time, in the privacy of their own room, the wolves also visit the forums, and listen to videos.  So, the sharks and the GB are immune to what happens on the forums.  They can thwart any demonic persuasion that they may read, while the rank and file are too ignorant to protect themselves?  
    "I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Men will rise up even from your own number and distort the truth to lure the disciples into following them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for three years I never stopped warning each one of you with tears."
    “lure the disciples into following them”. 
    These wolves will not tolerate competition.  They are fierce competitors, disguised as sheep who offer "fruit", that has distorted the truth in Jesus Christ.  Matt 7:15-19 
     
     
  4. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    Maybe because he gave, mind, ability to think and free will and freedom to choose, to people......and because of  Most truly I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything,+ he will give it to you in my name 
  5. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    It’s a job for WTJWorg lawyers. No one can forbid the gathering of people on forums that deal, among other things, with JW’s beliefs. What is the difference between an Open and a Closed Club? According to GB, everything is ...  both are .... "illegal". :))
  6. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    One more thing.  Decades of full-time service are enough to call oneself the “faithful and discreet slave” appointed over God’s household of saints.  Is this correct?  Sheesh.  If that’s all that matters to you, why don’t you just join the Mormon Church?  All of their leaders are “apostles” and there are 12 of them!
    You know, in Freemasonry, dedicated service can lead to an "anointing".  And they wear pinky rings also.
    Didn't he lie about the child abuse issue?  Yes, he would lie.  Look how easy it is for you to lie.
     
  7. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    Could you please tell me when I have elaborated on my anointing other than when you grilled me about it?  Can you target any time when I have exalted myself above my brothers and sisters in the organization?  Please, you've done this before and found that you had to take back your words.  
     
    That means nothing.  Jesus told us how to detect an anointed sent by him.  Matt 7:15-19; John 15:15
    Their "fruit"/teachings are good, never bad...and all of their teachings remain, never discarded.  
  8. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    To defend @4Jah2me's statement about True Anointed ones, I personally don’t believe every man on the GB are genuinely anointed.
    Why don’t you spend some time, if you haven’t already, and listen to Stephen Lett’s wisdom on his video about anointing.  He has no clue what an anointing is. And I believe there are a few more on that body just like him
    But, after listening to his speech of lies, you might (or might not) want to read this comment from a genuine anointed one:
     
    Wow, the very first two things he says in the first sentence, are false. No scripture says that you must be water baptized by men, before God can anoint you with his spirit. In fact, Acts10 reads; "44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days." Gentiles were anointed, previous to their water baptism.
     Secondly... Lett states that one must establish oneself as having a faithful course in the eyes of men, previous to their anointing by God. I assume that this "faithful course" is defined by the organization and includes their own standards of behavior (meeting attendance, service hours, proper dress, etc.). Again the scriptures disprove this fallacy. Did Paul establish himself as an exemplary Christian (according to the "watchtower's" criteria), while he traveled from town to town, hunting down and trying to eradicate the sect? Yet while in that spiritual state of mind, Jesus Christ himself chose Paul... not only to be among the 144K, but to be an apostle. Lett's assertions do two things... *insult the power of God to read a heart, and *bestows authority on the organization to interject their own standards into something that is none of their business. They don't get to tell God who He can adopt, and when. Outrageous arrogance!
     There is also no scriptural indication, that the "heavenly calling" is exclusively heavenly, as Lett asserts. For goodness sake... Rev.21:3-4 tells us plainly, that New Jerusalem comes down out of heaven. It states that God's dwelling [his temple made up of the anointed (1Pet.2:5; 1Cor.3:16)] is WITH MANKIND. How can you be an heir of the earth (Gal.3:29; Gen.28:4,13-14), but not be allowed to set foot on it? Lett is locked in a dark closet indeed.
    Wow, next, he twists the meaning of 1John2:20. The interlinear Greek makes plain, that in context with verses21 and 27, ...the "knowledge" is a growth in divine truths... Not an awareness that one is anointed. This guy can't open his mouth, without fulfilling Rev.13:11! Wasn't there recently a video about how shameful and taboo it is to inquire about the anointing experience? These guys need to make up their minds.
    Great... now I hear him ripping off from things I have written. What's wrong? Are your lamps going out and you need to borrow some oil? So I get Df'd for speaking the truth, but they can take what I got thrown out for, and use it in their talk? Another 12 minutes of video to go. I can't stomach much more. I now have strong personal doubt that Stephen Lett is a genuine anointed.
    He makes no mention of the experience of being anointed. While mentioning how powerful God's spirit witness is, he doesn't even touch upon that experience... which he certainly would if he really received it.
    The priests and kings in Israel, when anointed, were certainly aware of the event. They could feel the oil being poured upon them. It wasn't something that occurred because they had already been water baptized, or because they were regular in service. The Bible makes clear what the heart feels during an anointing by God's holy spirit... something obviously foreign to Stephen Lett. 
     
     
     
  9. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    If i was a member of any club then found out it was immoral and wicked, then i would resign. It not only makes a statement of objecting to the immorality and wickedness, but it makes a complete break from that club / organisation. I accept that the Watchtower and JW organisations (plural) have given themselves fale authority, much like a dictatorship. 
    I prayed to God through Christ before resigning, so my conscience was clear on the matter. 
    I was able to tell a few brothers why i was leaving before it was announced from the platform. 
    I was able to make a complete break, without pretending to just being 'inactive'.  
    I had enough faith in God and Christ to be able to 'loose' the 120 'brothers/sisters' in the congregation without getting upset about it. 
    And now, anyone i tell about the immorality and wickedness of the Watchtower / JW orgs, will know that i am not hypocritcal because i left as soon as I had proved to myself the seriouslness of the situation. 
    And yes i have made statements online about the things I have learnt through doing my own research and through this forum. 
    Of course JWs do not like my faith in God and Christ. JWs do not like my onging confidence in being able to 'survive' without the Org. JWs do not like that I continue to make known the sins of the GB, the Watchtower and the JW Orgs. 
    And JWs do not like that i know the difference between serving God, and, serving Men.  And I will contiue to serve God. 
  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    “Obey those who [a]rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. “Heb 13:17
    [a]rule – “lead”. 
    This scripture is a fallback for the organization to expect obedience to the GB and elders.  The apostles led the newly anointed ones especially, in truth.  The point of this leading was to direct them to Jesus Christ.  This, is how they were making disciples for Jesus and the Father.  It had nothing to do with earthly organizational arrangements, and leading people to the organization.  Jesus knew the last remnant of anointed would face such a delusion. He stated to these disciples who were desiring to be greater than another:
    “The kings of nations have power over their people, and those in authority call themselves friends of the people. 26 But you’re not going to be that way! Rather, the greatest among you must be like the youngest, and your leader must be like a servant. 27 Who’s the greatest, the person who sits at the table or the servant? Isn’t it really the person who sits at the table? But I’m among you as a servant.”  Luke 22:25-27
    Elders, are the “kings” of the nations, as they “represent the royal priesthood of "kings"”, which in reality means they have usurped the dignity of this priesthood. (2 Thess 2:3,4) “Those in authority” over these “kings”, is the GB – “friends of the people”/”benefactors” - who volunteer their time for the 'greater good'.  This is organizational arrangement, but Jesus condemns it.
    How powerful, how much impact do Jesus’ words have, against those of men who “rule” and wield discipline under such an arrangement?  Jesus’ words have no impact.  JWs see the elders, the GB, their great accomplishments, and it is to them that obedience and praise is given. 
    Anthony Morris: 
    “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; IF you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but obey the decision.”
    He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man-made decisions. This is governed from heaven.”
    There is no way that God would sanction such actions of men who fabricate their own “theocracy”,  and who admit they are not inspired and never have been. We don’t obey decision that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Are the Branch Committee Members inspired where these decrees originate?  Morris was putting his fist down to preserve his dominance over everyone, totally contrary to what Jesus expects of those whom HE sends.  Morris was enforcing “man-made” organizational protocol, with the threat that God will not bless a JW if these various organizational decisions are not followed. 
     Jesus’ teachings, and the teachings of the apostles, - the foundation of the spiritual Temple -  reflected Truth, not prominence of men, and certainly not obedience to a shifting doctrine newly formed, and then overhauled, as if such shifting of false truth is ever received from the Father and Jesus Christ.  James 1:17
     This foundation of Truth that we already have in God’s word, is our touchstone.  If what men say contradicts that touchstone, we are to walk away from them.  Doing this, displays our obedience to Jesus Christ.  
    "The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned."  2 Thess 2:9-12
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    What is meant by Jesus’ words in John 4:21-24?
    What mountain will rise and draw people to it, in the last days?  Isa 2:2,3
    What “mountain” is destroyed in Zech 4:7-14, when the last “living stone” of the Temple/mountain of God is in place? 
    What “mountain” is destroyed in Rev 8:8? It is an established earthly “mountain-like” organization.  I can only think of one organization that calls itself the “mountain-like” “spirit-directed” organization – the one you expect people to submit to.
    As far as “cyanide” affecting a tiny group of people, this warning was given to God’s saints:
    "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."  2 Pet 2:1-3
    How is this accomplished?  How can truth, the living waters of Jesus Christ, be brought into disrepute?  (John 7:38)
    ”See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.  Heb 12:15
    Wouldn’t you know... wormwood is a bitter root; and knowing that “stars” are represented by anointed ones, (Gen 26:4; Dan 12:3; Luke 11:33; 2 Pet 1:19; Rev 1:20)…
    ...who is Wormwood in Rev 8:10,11?  Interestingly, this account of a fallen star being called “Wormwood” is noted in the same chapter as the “mountain” being destroyed.
    God allows this or has allowed Satan to deceive, when His people have sinned through idolatry and the acceptance of false teachings.  (Luke 22:39)
    “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets:
    ‘Behold, I will feed them with wormwood,
    And make them drink the water of gall;
    For from the prophets of Jerusalem
    Profaneness has gone out into all the land.’ ”  Jer 23:15
     
    What is more important to you, knowing the truth from Jesus Christ, or accepting the discipline administered by men which an organization provides?
     
    Wormwood, False Prophets, Armageddon
  12. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    Right.  In this corrupted world, God would choose elements based on the expertise of men, to shed "light" on the scriptures.  Men would organize themselves, choose who would be the leaders and those who must submit to their "expertise" and supposed knowledge of His Word.  
    This isn't the organization concept from God, it is submitting oneself to the "world".  Men will then say, 'our organization is the dwelling place of God'.  This is blasphemy.  
    Earthly organizations are created mountains.  They come with rules and regulations on how to worship God. These rules are at the whim of men.  If they they are not followed, this mountain can consume the "sheep".  
    Jesus referred to two mountains in John 4, where worship was established -  Jerusalem, and the Samaritan temple.  Those mountains were corrupted by corrupt leaders.  God removed His Spirit from Jerusalem when Jesus died. 
    There is only one organization that is acceptable to God, and it isn't fabricated by men.  You are misunderstanding the concept of church, congregation, and the Body of Christ.  While you reign over and discipline the anointed in the organization, you have failed to see that they are the dwelling of God - His Temple. (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Can you comprehend  that the Wt has consumed the sheep of Jesus Christ, through a man-made organization?  Rev 13:5-10
    You are expecting the members of Jesus' body to be submissive to a discipline created by men.  THEY, the anointed, are the "organization" outlined by God.  Within their heart are the "rules and regulations" that God put there. (Heb 8:10) Yet, men are superior with their book of "light" that always needs updating.   8 million JWs have no understanding of the true spiritual organization built on the anointed Body of Christ.  Who would blind them of this truth, Jesus or Satan?  (Col 2:8; Rev 12:1-4,7,13-15)
     “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
    “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”  Acts 24,25,29-31
    "human design and skill", is how an earthly organization is is born.
    As I just asked a JW, once a ministerial servant ,who now realizes now that no earthly organization is the "way" to truth...
    "One has to ask, what is more important today, this spiritual Temple, or the organization?  Who is called on to teach the word of God, the anointed priesthood (Mal 2:7), or elders not part of God’s Temple, but are the backbone of an earthly organization?
    I'm sorry you are so blind.  
  13. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    “Obey those who [a]rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. “Heb 13:17
    [a]rule – “lead”. 
    This scripture is a fallback for the organization to expect obedience to the GB and elders.  The apostles led the newly anointed ones especially, in truth.  The point of this leading was to direct them to Jesus Christ.  This, is how they were making disciples for Jesus and the Father.  It had nothing to do with earthly organizational arrangements, and leading people to the organization.  Jesus knew the last remnant of anointed would face such a delusion. He stated to these disciples who were desiring to be greater than another:
    “The kings of nations have power over their people, and those in authority call themselves friends of the people. 26 But you’re not going to be that way! Rather, the greatest among you must be like the youngest, and your leader must be like a servant. 27 Who’s the greatest, the person who sits at the table or the servant? Isn’t it really the person who sits at the table? But I’m among you as a servant.”  Luke 22:25-27
    Elders, are the “kings” of the nations, as they “represent the royal priesthood of "kings"”, which in reality means they have usurped the dignity of this priesthood. (2 Thess 2:3,4) “Those in authority” over these “kings”, is the GB – “friends of the people”/”benefactors” - who volunteer their time for the 'greater good'.  This is organizational arrangement, but Jesus condemns it.
    How powerful, how much impact do Jesus’ words have, against those of men who “rule” and wield discipline under such an arrangement?  Jesus’ words have no impact.  JWs see the elders, the GB, their great accomplishments, and it is to them that obedience and praise is given. 
    Anthony Morris: 
    “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; IF you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but obey the decision.”
    He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man-made decisions. This is governed from heaven.”
    There is no way that God would sanction such actions of men who fabricate their own “theocracy”,  and who admit they are not inspired and never have been. We don’t obey decision that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Are the Branch Committee Members inspired where these decrees originate?  Morris was putting his fist down to preserve his dominance over everyone, totally contrary to what Jesus expects of those whom HE sends.  Morris was enforcing “man-made” organizational protocol, with the threat that God will not bless a JW if these various organizational decisions are not followed. 
     Jesus’ teachings, and the teachings of the apostles, - the foundation of the spiritual Temple -  reflected Truth, not prominence of men, and certainly not obedience to a shifting doctrine newly formed, and then overhauled, as if such shifting of false truth is ever received from the Father and Jesus Christ.  James 1:17
     This foundation of Truth that we already have in God’s word, is our touchstone.  If what men say contradicts that touchstone, we are to walk away from them.  Doing this, displays our obedience to Jesus Christ.  
    "The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned."  2 Thess 2:9-12
     
     
  14. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from César Chávez in Conscience individual and collective   
    “Obey those who [a]rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you. “Heb 13:17
    [a]rule – “lead”. 
    This scripture is a fallback for the organization to expect obedience to the GB and elders.  The apostles led the newly anointed ones especially, in truth.  The point of this leading was to direct them to Jesus Christ.  This, is how they were making disciples for Jesus and the Father.  It had nothing to do with earthly organizational arrangements, and leading people to the organization.  Jesus knew the last remnant of anointed would face such a delusion. He stated to these disciples who were desiring to be greater than another:
    “The kings of nations have power over their people, and those in authority call themselves friends of the people. 26 But you’re not going to be that way! Rather, the greatest among you must be like the youngest, and your leader must be like a servant. 27 Who’s the greatest, the person who sits at the table or the servant? Isn’t it really the person who sits at the table? But I’m among you as a servant.”  Luke 22:25-27
    Elders, are the “kings” of the nations, as they “represent the royal priesthood of "kings"”, which in reality means they have usurped the dignity of this priesthood. (2 Thess 2:3,4) “Those in authority” over these “kings”, is the GB – “friends of the people”/”benefactors” - who volunteer their time for the 'greater good'.  This is organizational arrangement, but Jesus condemns it.
    How powerful, how much impact do Jesus’ words have, against those of men who “rule” and wield discipline under such an arrangement?  Jesus’ words have no impact.  JWs see the elders, the GB, their great accomplishments, and it is to them that obedience and praise is given. 
    Anthony Morris: 
    “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; IF you want Jehovah’s blessing on you as an individual or family, certainly as an elder or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, but obey the decision.”
    He continues, “This is a theocracy ruled by God, not a collection of man-made decisions. This is governed from heaven.”
    There is no way that God would sanction such actions of men who fabricate their own “theocracy”,  and who admit they are not inspired and never have been. We don’t obey decision that have nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus Christ.  Are the Branch Committee Members inspired where these decrees originate?  Morris was putting his fist down to preserve his dominance over everyone, totally contrary to what Jesus expects of those whom HE sends.  Morris was enforcing “man-made” organizational protocol, with the threat that God will not bless a JW if these various organizational decisions are not followed. 
     Jesus’ teachings, and the teachings of the apostles, - the foundation of the spiritual Temple -  reflected Truth, not prominence of men, and certainly not obedience to a shifting doctrine newly formed, and then overhauled, as if such shifting of false truth is ever received from the Father and Jesus Christ.  James 1:17
     This foundation of Truth that we already have in God’s word, is our touchstone.  If what men say contradicts that touchstone, we are to walk away from them.  Doing this, displays our obedience to Jesus Christ.  
    "The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. 10 He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. 11 That’s why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. 12 Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned."  2 Thess 2:9-12
     
     
  15. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    They are preaching the good news of the redemption and  restoration of "Jacob"/"Israel", in the same manner that JWs are preaching presently.  I doubt the GB will now say, stay away from the internet -  from social forums - when they have made the choice to reach the remotest parts of the earth, via internet.  
    "And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed in the whole inhabited earth (God's "land" - Ps 132:7; Isa 66:1; 1 Cor 3:9)   for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."  Matt 24:14
    "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."  Matt 10:23
    Not the nation of Israel, but the spiritual nation of "Israel" today.  They are, God's "inhabited earth".  (1 Pet 2:5,9,10)
    "Leave Babylon, flee from the Chaldeans! Declare with a shout of joy, proclaim this, let it go out to the end of the earth; announce, "The LORD has redeemed his servant Jacob!"  Isa 48:20
    Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
    “‘Come out of her, my people,’[b] - Jer 51:45
        so that you will not share in her sins,
        so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
    5 for her sins are piled up to heaven,
        and God has remembered her crimes.
    6 Give back to her as she has given;
        pay her back double for what she has done.
        Pour her a double portion from her own cup.
    7 Give her as much torment and grief
        as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
    In her heart she boasts,
        ‘I sit enthroned as queen.
    I am not a widow;
        I will never mourn.’
    8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
        death, mourning and famine.
    She will be consumed by fire,
        for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."  Rev 18:4-8
    Jer 51:45 - “Come out of her, my people!
        Run for your lives!
        Run from the fierce anger of the Lord."
     
     
     
  16. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    That there should be no literal central place:
    1) whence it is dictated how God should be worshiped
    2) where "the truth is produced"
    3) where to go on pilgrimage
  17. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    What is meant by Jesus’ words in John 4:21-24?
    What mountain will rise and draw people to it, in the last days?  Isa 2:2,3
    What “mountain” is destroyed in Zech 4:7-14, when the last “living stone” of the Temple/mountain of God is in place? 
    What “mountain” is destroyed in Rev 8:8? It is an established earthly “mountain-like” organization.  I can only think of one organization that calls itself the “mountain-like” “spirit-directed” organization – the one you expect people to submit to.
    As far as “cyanide” affecting a tiny group of people, this warning was given to God’s saints:
    "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping."  2 Pet 2:1-3
    How is this accomplished?  How can truth, the living waters of Jesus Christ, be brought into disrepute?  (John 7:38)
    ”See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.  Heb 12:15
    Wouldn’t you know... wormwood is a bitter root; and knowing that “stars” are represented by anointed ones, (Gen 26:4; Dan 12:3; Luke 11:33; 2 Pet 1:19; Rev 1:20)…
    ...who is Wormwood in Rev 8:10,11?  Interestingly, this account of a fallen star being called “Wormwood” is noted in the same chapter as the “mountain” being destroyed.
    God allows this or has allowed Satan to deceive, when His people have sinned through idolatry and the acceptance of false teachings.  (Luke 22:39)
    “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets:
    ‘Behold, I will feed them with wormwood,
    And make them drink the water of gall;
    For from the prophets of Jerusalem
    Profaneness has gone out into all the land.’ ”  Jer 23:15
     
    What is more important to you, knowing the truth from Jesus Christ, or accepting the discipline administered by men which an organization provides?
     
    Wormwood, False Prophets, Armageddon
  18. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    Right.  In this corrupted world, God would choose elements based on the expertise of men, to shed "light" on the scriptures.  Men would organize themselves, choose who would be the leaders and those who must submit to their "expertise" and supposed knowledge of His Word.  
    This isn't the organization concept from God, it is submitting oneself to the "world".  Men will then say, 'our organization is the dwelling place of God'.  This is blasphemy.  
    Earthly organizations are created mountains.  They come with rules and regulations on how to worship God. These rules are at the whim of men.  If they they are not followed, this mountain can consume the "sheep".  
    Jesus referred to two mountains in John 4, where worship was established -  Jerusalem, and the Samaritan temple.  Those mountains were corrupted by corrupt leaders.  God removed His Spirit from Jerusalem when Jesus died. 
    There is only one organization that is acceptable to God, and it isn't fabricated by men.  You are misunderstanding the concept of church, congregation, and the Body of Christ.  While you reign over and discipline the anointed in the organization, you have failed to see that they are the dwelling of God - His Temple. (1 Cor 3:16,17)  Can you comprehend  that the Wt has consumed the sheep of Jesus Christ, through a man-made organization?  Rev 13:5-10
    You are expecting the members of Jesus' body to be submissive to a discipline created by men.  THEY, the anointed, are the "organization" outlined by God.  Within their heart are the "rules and regulations" that God put there. (Heb 8:10) Yet, men are superior with their book of "light" that always needs updating.   8 million JWs have no understanding of the true spiritual organization built on the anointed Body of Christ.  Who would blind them of this truth, Jesus or Satan?  (Col 2:8; Rev 12:1-4,7,13-15)
     “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else.
    “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”  Acts 24,25,29-31
    "human design and skill", is how an earthly organization is is born.
    As I just asked a JW, once a ministerial servant ,who now realizes now that no earthly organization is the "way" to truth...
    "One has to ask, what is more important today, this spiritual Temple, or the organization?  Who is called on to teach the word of God, the anointed priesthood (Mal 2:7), or elders not part of God’s Temple, but are the backbone of an earthly organization?
    I'm sorry you are so blind.  
  19. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    I do wish that those people obsessed with AN ORGANISATION, would tell me, in chronological order, which Organisations Almighty God was using from the year 100 through to the year 1850. 
    All complete names of ALL the organisations, with dates from and to, please.  I look forward to your thorough reply, because you people seem to be so confident that you have these answers. 
  20. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    Oh dear he drags us back into YE OLDE HEBREW SCRIPTURE again.  We ARE living in the time of Principles based on the teachings of Christ. WE ARE NOT ISRAELITES. 
    And as for the other suggestion, You have no idea what some of us have suffered from Elders, no idea at all. 
    But as @Witness constantly tells you, the Elders DO kill people spiritually, which is just as bad as killing physically.  
    If you add the belief of your GB, that ONLY BAPTISED JWs WILL BE SAVED. Then disfellowshipping for false reasons is killing a person. And that is what the JW Elders do. 
  21. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    Just read this. Just listen to the ORDERS BEING GIVEN, the DICTATORSHIP.  Who does this man think he is ? 
     
     
  22. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    That leaves out the Wt organization, which continually fights for their worldly rights; who cannot accept a court's decision in the case of child abuse, but must bulldoze their way back into court, to preserve their riches.  As far as religious organizations go, they are as worldly as the worst of them.  
    "Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you." James 1:27
    James 2:1-17; Exod 22:22; James 4:4-10
     
  23. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Conscience individual and collective   
    That leaves out the Wt organization, which continually fights for their worldly rights; who cannot accept a court's decision in the case of child abuse, but must bulldoze their way back into court, to preserve their riches.  As far as religious organizations go, they are as worldly as the worst of them.  
    "Pure and genuine religion in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you." James 1:27
    James 2:1-17; Exod 22:22; James 4:4-10
     
  24. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Conscience individual and collective   
    I like this. You made excellent quote. WTJWorg publications only contain the claim that there were always people who worshiped YHVH between the 1st century and the appearance of Russell.
    Not once did they name any "organization." So we have no indication, no evidence from WTJWrg, that God used any organized system (organization) and people who would be part of that system as believers / members.
  25. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ASKING FOR PERMISSION TO PARTAKE OF THE EMBLEMS   
    This is a new topic (because we are supposed to do this) based on information given by @JW Insider 
    JWI gave information about someone being told NOT TO  partake of the emblems at the Memorial.
    This evening is the Memorial of the last meal that Christ shared with His closest followers.
    Whilst we remember how Christ gave his life I would like to share a scripture at Revelation 5 
    9, And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10  and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
    This scripture shows that Christ 'was slaughtered' for the Anointed ones.
    So I have a question. Do JWs who feel they are of the Anointed have to ask the Elders for permission to partake of the Emblems ?
    Q2. Does any human on this earth have the right to judge if another person can partake of those emblems ? 
     
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