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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Menrov in How far back?   
    It is not uncommon to be told by (fellow) JW's that only new magazines or books are to be used. Why? Well, for the reasons already expressed: these book contain "old light" or expressions similar to this.
    Just consider this; The WBTS is the only source of the material that JW's use. So, all JW's know, believe and accept comes from that source. In other words, the WBTS is accountable for what they published as truth. (even if a JW would disagree, he runs the risk of being DF'ed).
    Further: the claim is that the WBTS has been selected to act as FDS since 1919 (was 1918....). Though apparently not appointed (WT 2013) but still FDS and that God has used them (WBTS) as the ONLY channel to educate so-called Gods people. So, one might expect that at least basic doctrines would be correct, without needing one or more corrections. Would God allow people to learn WRONG things?
    So, if the WBTS can be wrong, can it be that for example l am right? In other words, could I be the FDS? What scriptural proof is there that directs me to the WBTS as the source of my bible education and explanations?
    And who says that what is published today is good?
    I therefore believe that when the WBTS tries to block old (pre 2000) books and magazines to be used or reviewed ,it is proof they do not even believe their own material. If the Revelation contained so much truth and explanations valuable for all of us, why is it no longer vaiuable ? According to the WBTS we are close to the end, right? Would such a book then not be most useful?
    Apparently not.
  2. Upvote
    Witness reacted to HollyW in How far back?   
    In the course of several discussions here, I've received a certain amount of resistance and even criticism for referencing the older publications of the WTS, and even for referencing current publications (2014) that reference older publications (1914).
    What I need to know is how far back, then, is it appropriate to go when quoting from WTS publications?
    For instance, is 1981 too far back?  Consider this quote from the WT of 2/15/1981 in the article on pg. 19 "Do We Need Help To Understand The Bible?" and please note the part I've bolded:
    Our View of the "Slave"
    If we have once established what instrument God is using as his “slave” to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using. At the Brooklyn headquarters from which the Bible publications of Jehovah’s Witnesses emanate there are more mature Christian elders, both of the “remnant” and of the “other sheep,” than anywhere else upon earth.
    True, the brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18) However, this has resulted in a continual refining of the body of Bible-based truth to which Jehovah’s Witnesses subscribe. Over the years, as adjustments have been made to that body of truth, it has become ever more wonderful and applicable to our lives in these “last days.” Bible commentators of Christendom are not inspired either. Despite their claims to great knowledge, they have failed to highlight even basic Bible truths—such as the coming Paradise earth, the importance of God’s name, and the condition of the dead.
    Rather, the record that the “faithful and discreet slave” organization has made for the past more than 100 years forces us to the conclusion that Peter expressed when Jesus asked if his apostles also wanted to leave him, namely, “Whom shall we go away to?” (John 6:66-69) No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the “faithful and discreet slave” organization.
  3. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Jesus.defender in WATCHTOWER FALSE PROPHECIES   
    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).


     
  4. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in The Crown of Thorns   
    There are Bible passages that I would not read with my children until they were old enough to understand them.
    But if it helps, all of my work was from 1976 to 1982, and in '76 it was still just handbills, booklets, brochures. In 1977-79 some of the art got more time-consuming, but it was still mostly one or two-color. I didn't get to work on the Bible Stories book which was full-color,  and I only got ONE full paradise scene, no Armageddon scenes, and no pictures of Jesus. Nothing very startling or striking like the scenes you showed. I wasn't very good with drawing expressions on faces back then, although I could draw or paint a fair landscape. It wasn't until '79 - '82 that more of my time was spent in research than in art.
  5. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from HollyW in The Crown of Thorns   
    Thank you everyone – Holly, JWInsider, Melinda, and Eoin for your comments and for setting me aright as to the history of how Jesus is portrayed in the publications over the years.

    There is no indication that Jesus tried to remove that crown of thorns. It remained on his head, and that served to highlight the issue at stake. No one was to be left in doubt.  w91 1/1 p. 9 “Look! The Man!

    Today the misrepresentation of Jesus continues. Most people picture Jesus as a babe in a manger or as a tragic figure nailed to a cross, with his face distorted in agony under a crown of thorns. Christendom’s clergy have encouraged such views. ip-2 chap. 14 p. 198 par. 11

    What contrasting comments, leaving a reader who does any research, somewhat confused, I would think.  So I ask, has the Watchtower now forgotten just how Christ was persecuted on our behalf?  Would it not be the priority to make known ALL that he suffered in bringing us the gift of life?   The chief priests balked at Pilate’s choice of words to be written and placed above the dying Jesus:

     And He, bearing His cross, went out to a place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha,  where they crucified Him, and two others with Him, one on either side, and Jesus in the center.19 Now Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was:

    JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.

    Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.  Therefore the chief priests of the Jews said to Pilate, “Do not write, ‘The King of the Jews,’ but, ‘He said, “I am the King of the Jews.”’”   Pilate answered, “What I have written, I have written.”  John 19:17-22 NKJV

    What else should be removed?  We know the symbolic meaning of this crown is a major sign of persecution put upon Christ, mentally, emotionally and spiritually - an oppression forced down onto him; and through such, we see his resulting reliance on the Father.  We can also see this through Paul’s words who suffered from a “thorn in the flesh”.  Interestingly, it is Christ who is speaking to him,

    “And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.  And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.  Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” 2 Cor 12:7-10

    When looking at Christ’s example under such painful humiliation, we have a lesson to heed,

    “My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.  But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.”  James 1:2-4

    It is the thorn in the flesh that can makes us weak, if we allow it.  When learning to walk by spirit, and not by the sight of which we can behold with our eye (as one’s supposed salvation), we become unmovable when attacked by the prideful ridicule of others. The blessing of grace is sufficient for us.  Gal 5:16; Rom 8:14; Matt 26:41

     “above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.”  Eph 6:16

    “But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.”  1 Thess 5:8

    The persecution that Christ painfully bore in his weakness displayed the power of God upon his Son, and the crowning of his resulting glory. 

    “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.”  Heb 2:9

    Each one us, in particular God’s anointed ones, must bear their own thorn in the flesh to magnify the power of Christ during the persecution the remnant experiences.  Rev 9 speaks of a swarm of stinging locust that comes upon God’s anointed ones prior to their being “sealed”.  Rev 9:1-11; 7:4

    Although the Watchtower will say this locust swarm correlates with those in the “preaching work”, indeed it is a result of captivity to lies and the testing of one’s exclusive faith in God and Christ.  The “star” that releases these scorpion locusts is not Christ, since Christ would never “fall” from his heavenly position; but those anointed in Christ, very well could. 2 Pet 1:10

     “Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.”  Rev 2:10 (Luke 21:24; Col 2:8; Eph 6:12; Rev 13:10)


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  6. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Wal*Mart and the Jehovah's Witnesses   
    And yet you haven't read the pamphlet. So you have no idea whether there is any truth or logic to what he argues or not.
    Iirc, Campbell was moved eventually to write his pamphlets (there's another one I know about) after an encounter with a regular pioneer who made him think about and research his own evangelical beliefs. And don't forget he wrote this booklet in 1990. Some of his criticisms may be outdated as the Org has changed its mind on several doctrines since then. You never know, there may be a teaching or two Campbell and JWs agree on now! 
  7. Upvote
    Witness reacted to HollyW in Persecution for His Name   
    ......Jesus said the world would hate his followers because of his name: Matthew 24:9 “Then people will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name."
    Acts 4:18 With that they called them and charged them, nowhere to make any utterance or to teach upon the basis of the name of Jesus. 
    Acts 5:27 So they brought them and stood them in the Sanhedrin hall. And the high priest questioned them 28 and said: “We positively ordered you not to keep teaching upon the basis of this name, and yet, look! You have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us.” 
    Acts 5:40 At this they gave heed to him, and they summoned the apostles, flogged them, and ordered them to stop speaking upon the basis of Jesus’ name, and let them go.
    Remember, it was Jehovah's people, the Jews, who were the ones seeking to kill Jesus.  They provided the false witnesses against him, and they told the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, “His blood come upon us and upon our children.” 
     
  8. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from pearl doxsey in Tithing Abolished at The Torture Stake   
    There are many subtle ways to coerce money from the sheep in religions, and many forms of brainwashing.  No, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not enforce a literal consistent monthly tithe, at least it isn’t called this. They do not pass a collection basket, but they do provide their own baskets in various forms.
    In order to promote donations, there are many options that the organization uses.  Stephen Lett produced a very lengthy broadcast last year presenting the shortfalls and projections where donations were needed. Since that broadcast, changes have occurred in the organization making his projections somewhat false.  Yet, I remember reading a comment where a member, whom had heard this broadcast, felt in her heart that she had to cut back even further in her budget to give, eliminating the families few recreational activities and cutting back further on the food budget.  Is this not underhanded coercion? 
    A brochure has been produced outlining how one can sign over inheritances, real estate, put the Watchtower in one’s will, etc.  This has far greater ramifications than passing a basket. 
    Credit card machines have become handy to make one’s donation, and through this, a record of the donator is made; no longer is an anonymous giving the main possibility. One can donate through their website, and another universal record becomes apparent, especially with the option to “create a recurring donation”.  How is this any different than tithing, then filling out an envelope with one’s name on it?  Yet it is no different as it can give access to one’s bank account.
    There is no possibility of knowing the breakdown of where one’s money is used by the organization, whereas if we were to feed the needy at our own will, we would have complete control over the use of our money, and surely God would love that cheerful giver. 
    Matt 6:3,4 – “ But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,  that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly”
    In the November 11, 2016 Wt, a full page reminder has once again been placed before the eyes of the sheep showing the plentiful ways to donate, plentifully.
    Many today “set something aside,” or budget an amount of money, and place it in the congregation contribution box labeled “Worldwide Work.” (1 Cor. 16:2) Each month, congregations forward these contributions to the office of Jehovah’s Witnesses that serves their country. It is also possible for you to send donations directly to a legal entity that is used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in your country. To learn the name of the primary legal entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in your country, please contact the branch office. The address can be found on www.jw.org. The types of donations that you can send directly are the following:
    OUTRIGHT DONATIONS ˙ Donations via electronic bank transfer, debit card, credit card, or mobile money transfer. In some branches this is also possible using jw.org or another designated website. ˙ Donations of cash, jewelry, or other valuable personal property. Include a letter indicating that the cash or the item is an outright donation.
    CONDITIONAL DONATION ARRANGEMENT ˙ Donations of cash with the condition that it can be returned if needed by the donor. ˙ Include a letter stating that the donation is conditional.
    CHARITABLE PLANNING In addition to gifts of money and valuable personal property, there are other methods of giving to bene- fit Kingdom service worldwide. These are listed below. Regardless of the method or methods you would like to use, please first contact the branch office that serves your country to see which methods are available. Since legal requirements and tax laws vary, it is important to consult qualified tax and legal advisers before choosing the best way to donate.
    Insurance: A donation made by specifying an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses as the beneficiary of a life insurance policy or a retirement/pension plan. Bank Accounts: Bank accounts, certificates of deposit, or individual retirement accounts set up as a trust or made payable on death to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses in accord with local bank requirements.
    Stocks and Bonds: Stocks and bonds donated to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses as an outright gift or by means of a written agreement to transfer on death.
    Real Estate: Salable real estate donated to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses, either by making an outright gift or, in the case of residential property, by reserving a life estate to the donor, who can continue to live in the residence during his or her lifetime.
    Gift Annuity: Money or securities donated to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses under an arrangement where the donor receives a specified annuity payment every year for life. The donor may receive an income-tax deduction for the year in which the gift annuity is established.
    Wills and Trusts: Property or money may be bequeathed to an entity used by Jehovah’s Witnesses by means of a legally executed will or by specifying the entity as the beneficiary of a trust agreement. This arrangement may provide certain tax advantages. As the term “charitable planning” implies, these types of donations typically require some planning on the part of the donor. To assist individuals desiring to benefit the worldwide work of Jehovah’s Witnesses through some form of charitable giving, a brochure entitled Charitable Planning to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide has been prepared. The brochure, available in English and Spanish, was written to provide information on a variety of ways that gifts may be made now or later, such as through a bequest at death. The information covered in this brochure may not apply fully to your situation because of tax laws or other laws in your country. By using such methods of charitable giving, many have helped to support our religious and humanitarian activities worldwide and maximize tax benefits. If available in your country, the brochure may be obtained by requesting a copy from the secretary of the local congregation. For more information, select the link “Make a Donation to Our Worldwide Work” at the bottom of the home page on jw.org, or contact the branch office. HOW SOME CHOOSE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE WORLDWIDE WORK
    Have they missed any opportunity to collect money -  to “set something aside”, which is a tithe?  These suggestions to give are far greater in value than a “tenth of one’s belongings” required under the law covenant and arranged by God. 
    The organization operates on money, and lots of it.  I use to say while in the organization, we receive free, we give free.  It has become blatantly apparent that the organization cannot say this; instead, one bequeaths the larger chunk of the monetary value a person owns in exchange for being known as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    Believing in Jesus Christ is taking in life’s water free, and freely giving it to the hearer.  Anything, any religion that requires money to operate in Satan’s world is not of God. 
    Matt 6:14 - “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”
    Mammon means money.  One’s loyalty in the organization comes apparent when following the donation arrangement outlined above. 
    “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.  For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” Matt 6:19-21
    Christ did warn us of oppressive wolves dressed in sheep’s clothing.  Would these wolves always be visible through their outlandish actions, or could they appear as an “angel of light”; as humble, speaking smooth words and lulling one into a peaceful state? 1 Thess 5:3; Jer 8:11; Ezek 13:1-23 Could they create an open door by saying it is salvation, using both God and Jesus’ words to win over the unsusceptible one?  Jesus explained that this would happen.
    “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.  But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.  To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.  When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.  A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”  John 10:1-5
    So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. John 10:7
    How much clearer can this be understood?  Does this leave any room for man to sculpt a “door”, and call it salvation; which is alternatively, calling it “Christ” who is our salvation?  Not only is the organization considered salvation, but every word heard from the “faithful and discreet slave” is necessary to “obey” and heed for the sake of our salvation from anointed ones standing in for Christ; not as ambassadors, but as Christ himself, who is our true mediator between God and man. 2 Cor 5:20
    But we are acting against Jehovah’s purpose if we do not obey the faithful and discreet slave or if we choose to obey only what we think is important. W 11/7/15
    On the other hand, if we minimized the Bible-based counsel that we receive through the faithful and discreet slave class, choosing to follow an independent course, we would be placing ourselves at odds with God’s unfolding purpose. W 11/7/15
    “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconcilingthe world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.” (not to be the reconciliation, or the mediator) 2 Cor 5:18,19
    Acts 4:12 - And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
    Would it be considered an independent course to willingly follow Jesus?  Do we follow what we see physically, or do we follow the scriptural words leading to Christ?
    “If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.  Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.  For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.”  Col 3:1,2
    “All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. “
    Are we to be condemned if we follow Christ explicitly and not follow an earthly run corporation needing our money to survive – our livelihood?  Isn’t it incredible to think that the extensive outlining of options to give, makes the organization run?  If Holy Spirit were truly spearheading the “preaching work”, what need would there be to bring financial woes to the table as Stephen Lett did, or produces ingenious ways to donate?
     “I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.”  The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
    Jesus can give life abundantly to any who follow him.  It isn’t a requirement to become another identity, other than the identity of being Christ’s sheep; subsequently a true witness of our Father in heaven.
    “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.  He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.  He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.” John 10:11-13
    The “hired hands” are false shepherds, and in the organization there are many known as the elder body.  Would they protect anyone who desires to enter the true “door”, being Christ, completely?  No, they would allow the “wolf” to devour them with written decrees of oppression experienced while under false shepherds, and disfellowshipping, when one desires to exit the false door claiming salvation.  Jer 8:8 
    I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.  Acts 20:29
    Paul was speaking of those within the anointed Body of Christ, those “among” them, who have fabricated this alternative door to salvation, and posing as the Christ.  Jesus called them “false prophets”, wearing sheep’s clothing with a belly hungry to destroy.  Matt 7:15
     “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it.  For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  See, I have told you beforehand.”
    “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.  For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.  For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”  Matt 24:23-28
    A desert can be a wasteland where one finds miles of sand, good soil for producing a crop is not there, and life is scant. Matt 7:26,27 Water is sparse in this environment; symbolically, Jesus is showing that the living water and bread from Christ cannot be found in such an environment, but only through him.  John 7:38; 6:35; Amos 8:11; Matt 24:7
    The “inner rooms”: Strong’s - αμεῖον tameîon, tam-i'-on; neuter contraction of a presumed derivative of ταμίας tamías (a dispenser or distributor; akin to τέμνω témnō, to cut); a dispensary or magazine, i.e. a chamber on the ground-floor or interior of an Oriental house (generally used for storage or privacy, a spot for retirement):—secret chamber, closet, storehouse.
    Additionally, the Bible-based publications of the faithful and discreet slave class provide spiritual food in the spiritual paradise.  W 04/10/15
    He has made it possible for honest hearted ones to move out of the wicked world, figuratively speaking, and into the spiritual paradise that he has created. W 11/1/15
    “So Jesus again said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.  All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.  I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.  The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.” John 10:7-10
    “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,  just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.”  John 10:14,15
    “Come, everyone who thirsts,
        come to the waters;
    and he who has no money,
        come, buy and eat!
    Come, buy wine and milk
        without money and without price.
     Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread,
        and your labor for that which does not satisfy?
    Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good,
        and delight yourselves in rich food.
     Incline your ear, and come to me;
        hear, that your soul may live;
    and I will make with you an everlasting covenant,
        my steadfast, sure love for David.”  Isa 51:1-3
    “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.”  Rev 3:10


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  9. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from HollyW in Daily text, Saturday, August 27. 2016   
    This holy priesthood is, of course, the Body of Christ made up of all anointed ones.  Both Acts 1:8 and Col. 1:23 show how each one is to use the power of Holy Spirit given them to preach the message of Jesus Christ, continuing in the faith of Jesus Christ, thus being “grounded and steadfast, not moved away from the gospel which you heard”, said the apostle Paul. 

    Is this true in the organization?  Are they able to use their availability to the Holy Spirit and at the same time obey the GB?

    “They (the anointed ones) know that Jehovah does not necessarily give anointed ones more holy spirit than he gives his other servants. And they do not feel that they can understand Bible truths more deeply than anyone else.” Wt 1/2016 

    I would like to know what an anointed one thinks of this statement – a chosen one by God who received an anointing of Holy Spirit at a particular time; a physical and spiritual event unlike any other that this one has experienced.  The apostles felt it, all that were anointed at the time felt the power of Holy Spirit, and down through the ages.  Is it any different today?  No!  

     Mal 2:7 - “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
    And people should seek the law from his mouth;
    For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.

     “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”  John 14:25,26

    “For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God”  Col 1:9,10

    What is different, is that an evil slave has decided to “beat” his fellow slaves, God’s chosen ones in Christ, by demanding silence through teaching only what is written, and demanding that changed doctrine be swallowed down without complaint. 

    Why does this evil slave turn on his brothers?  Because he says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ What other group of anointed ones but the GB has continually changed the date of Christ’s coming?

    He “begins to eat with drunkards”.  God explains:

    But they also have erred through wine,
    And through intoxicating drink are out of the way;
    The priest and the prophet have erred through intoxicating drink,
    They are swallowed up by wine,
    They are out of the way through intoxicating drink;
    They err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

    For all tables are full of vomit and filth;
    No place is clean. Isa 28:7,8

    “In the past, we thought that the great tribulation began in 1914 when World War I started. We thought that Jehovah “cut short” those days in 1918 when the war ended so that the remaining anointed ones on earth could preach the good news to all nations. ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) After that preaching work would be completed, we expected that Satan’s world would be destroyed. So we thought that there were three parts to the great tribulation. It would begin in 1914, it would be interrupted in 1918, and it would finish at Armageddon.”  “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be” Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  

    Yet still, God’s chosen ones and all sheep must obey what is taught - what is thought as right in the space of time.

    “Whom will he teach knowledge?
    And whom will he make to understand the message?
    Those just weaned from milk?
    Those just drawn from the breasts?

     For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line,
    Here a little, there a little, That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
    And snared and caught.”  Isa 28:9,10

    What are we to obey, but God’s laws as outlined by Christ?

    In the NKJV, this word for precept means - “command, ordinance, oracle (meaning dubious)”, while the Hebrew word translated precept in Ps 119:4 means “properly, appointed, i.e. a mandate (of God; plural only, collectively, for the Law):—commandment, precept, statute.”  Clearly, the GB burden the sheep with their own precepts instead of those from God’s, as erring ones of the past did also.

    Ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment,
    Because he willingly walked by human precept.  Hos 5:11

    Are such changed teachings evidence of the power of Holy Spirit within these men?  Are they grounded and steadfast in the gospel?  If they were, would there be any reason to rethink set dates surrounding a set belief in 1914, the supposed arrival of Christ?

    “Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men,
    Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem, (New Jerusalem, spiritual “Jews”)
     Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death,
    And with Sheol we are in agreement.
    When the overflowing scourge passes through,
    It will not come to us,
    For we have made lies our refuge,
    And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

     

     

     

     

     

  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from HollyW in The Crown of Thorns   
    This was a brief speculation made on another forum, but got me thinking about why it must be so.  In all pictures of Christ when dying, he is depicted in the Watchtower magazines without the crown of thorns. I believe I have not run across this in any other such drawn description of the time of Jesus' dying and death.  There appears to be no scriptural reason behind its removal.  What is the reason?
  11. Upvote
    Witness reacted to HollyW in Jehovah's Witnesses under pressure over handling of sexual abuse claims   
    I think there's been new understanding about this, JWs are to obey the elders even if they are wrong:
    [wt 4/1/2007 p.28, par.8-9] 8 We obey the elders not only because we are directed to do so in God’s Word but also because we are persuaded that they have Kingdom interests and our best interests at heart. We will certainly be happy if we willingly accept their leadership.

    9 What, though, if we are not convinced that in a certain case the elders’ direction is the best way of doing things? That is where submission comes into play. It is easy to obey when everything is clear and we agree, but we will show that we are truly submissive if we yield even when we do not personally understand the direction provided.
  12. Upvote
    Witness reacted to HollyW in What if the Gentile times did not end in 1914?   
    Even though it would mark a turning away from what they had said was the truth, I don't think the men on the WTS GB would consider their actions to be apostasy, even though that IS their definition of it.  More likely it will read something similar to the presentation of changed beliefs used in the 11/15/2016 WT:
    For many years, this journal suggested that the times of the Gentiles ended in 1914 and "the one who has the legal right" to the Davidic crown, Jesus Christ, became King in that year. However, for reasons that we shall outline in this article and in the one following, a re-examination of the subject was necessary.  
    The scripture this puts me in mind of is not found in Hebrews.....it's in 2 Timothy 3:7 "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
     
  13. Upvote
    Witness reacted to HollyW in What if the Gentile times did not end in 1914?   
    Well, I'd be among the last one to tell you to keep clinging to an incorrect teaching such as the Gentile times ending in 1914, and it's good that you're open to changing your belief about it, even expecting to do so from the sounds of things.  That's the thing to do, isn't it, when a teaching you believed was based on the Bible turns out to be based instead on the speculations and expectations of men.
    So, the Gentile times did not end in 1914, Jesus did not become King in 1914, the Messianic kingdom was not born in 1914, the presence of Jesus did not begin in 1914, and no inspection took place between 1914 and 1919, therefore no appointment of a faithful slave took place in 1919.
    You can see the domino effect dropping 1914 would have, which might be why it hasn't been changed yet.
  14. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from HollyW in What does it mean to keep testing whether you are in the faith?   
    Hi Holly, I thought you might be interested in this article concerning new changes outlined in the 11/2016 Watchtower.
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    Jesus is barely mentioned throughout the magazine.  There are quotes such as this one, which is particularly troubling:

    Love for God and neighbor and the urgency of the Kingdom-preaching work move God’s people “to come forward . . . with a gift in hand for Jehovah” by making voluntary donations. How thrilling it is to “honor Jehovah with [our] valuable things” and to see how such resources are used faithfully and discreetly to do the greatest work in human history!—Prov. 3:9

    Besides guilting one into thinking we show love to our neighbor by supporting a corporation supposedly leading one to life, holding out one’s full palm of earthly valuable things toward the “faithful and discreet slave” contradicts the teachings of Christ.  Didn’t he overturn the tables of the money changers?  Money changers were basically bankers. Obviously, Jesus was not convinced they were faithful or discreet with the people’s money. 

     “And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers doing business.  When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables.  And He said to those who sold doves, “Take these things away! Do not make My Father’s house a house of merchandise!”  Then His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for Your house has eaten[ Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ] Me up.”  John 2:14-17

    Matt 21:12-13 - Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 3 And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves. ‘”

    The use of Prov 3:9 to promote the giving of one’s “valuable things” to the organization is ironic.  The chapter goes on to say,

    Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
    And the man who gains understanding;
     For her proceeds are better than the profits of silver,
    And her gain than fine gold.
     She is more precious than rubies,
    And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her.
    Length of days is in her right hand,
    In her left hand riches and honor.
     Her ways are ways of pleasantness,
    And all her paths are peace.
     She is a tree of life to those who take hold of her,
    And happy are all who retain her.  Prov 3:13-18

    Wisdom is found in the Word, Jesus Christ, and will further be found in his complete Bride in God’s Kingdom.  This leads us back to where our faith should lie, and where we store our “treasure”, our “valuable things”.

     “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;  but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.  For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.  Matt 6:19-21

    Jesus also said,  “Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”  John 6:27

    I hope this becomes clear to JWs.  Our heart’s motivation can be either in the faith, in Christ; or we can have faith in an organization already filled with earthly treasures.  We can’t have it both ways.  Matt 6:24

    By giving money to the organization, the “money changers” then “sell” their spiritual goods to the hearer.  A spiritual corrupt commerce is evident.  It is an alarming fact that the beasts of Revelation, work together to support such a spiritual fornication.  Rev 13: 11,15,17

    Testing whether we are in the faith, in Christ, can be determined by the source of our spiritual sustenance.  Do we procure it free from Christ, or must it be purchased through the organization?

    “I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see” Rev 3:18

    And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.  Rev 21:6

    And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.  Rev 22:17

    “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
    Come to the waters;
    And you who have no money,
    Come, buy and eat.
    Yes, come, buy wine and milk
    Without money and without price.
    Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
    And your wages for what does not satisfy?
    Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
    And let your soul delight itself in abundance.  Isa 55:1,2

    Christ is the bread of life given freely to those who listen.  The Watchtower sells tainted teachings, otherwise known in the bible as wormwood.  Amos 5:7; Jer 23:15; Rev 8:11 
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  15. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Jehovah's Witnesses under pressure over handling of sexual abuse claims   
    What has that to with the price of beans? Again, instead of having a rational discussion about how the Org. has historically dealt with and presently deals with child abuse allegations, you resort to ad hominem and deflection. I think our conversation must soon come to an end if you continue to be incapable of rational discussion.
    My questions resulted from your own words where you said the WTS and other institutions are getting hammered and negative publicity, not because of their failings but, because of "ambulance chasing lawyers." 
    Do you think the dozens upon dozens of lawsuits in recent times are down to "ambulance chasing lawyers" and are not 'legitimate' cases? Which 'legitimate' cases have you followed?
    What are you babbling on about? Which disgruntled witnesses? The abusers? When did the WTS or congregation elders notify the authorities about allegations of child abuse in the '80s and '90s? In Australia, according to the evidence brought out at the Royal Commission, the elders did not notify the police about the crime once in all 1000+ cases in the past 50 years.
    Who's 'we'? Your duplicate accounts don't count.
    I asked you a question. Do you know the difference between a statement and a question? You stated that the WTS will make changes through the Branches to comply with new government legislation. This prompted my question to you about whether you believe governments have to legislate to make 'God's organization' do the right and moral thing?
    So what do you think? Do governments have to legislate so that 'God's organization' is made to do the right and moral thing? Or should the Org's own sense of morality and justice make it proactive rather than reactive when formulating its child safeguarding procedures?
    Again, you are wanting to bend the discussion away from the issues and make it about me or other institutions. To steer you back on track, a reminder: the article in the OP is about JWs. This thread is in the JW section. Ergo, we are discussing how JWs deal with child abuse within their organization. 
    Court case after court case after public inquiry after court case has shown there is a pattern in how disclosure of abuse has been mishandled by the Org. The directives to the BOE as well as JW culture explain why this pattern exists. There are huge flaws in the Org's approach that desperately need addressing.
     In general. Now you have that clarified, 
    What if the wrongdoer isn't disfellowshipped because the elders believe s/he is repentant? How can the congregation's children be protected while s/he continues as a member?
    Your suggestions please.
    Do you not think child abuse to be a crime? Do you not think that negligence and failure to provide a duty of care to vulnerable members of a faith community should be brought to civil court? 
    And, most hilariously, are you really suggesting that a professional lawyer with 20 years experience is ignorant of the difference between 'criminality and civil culpability'? 
    Historically, the Org's elders have already been 'taking the law into their own hands' by investigating and passing judgment on child abuse allegations internally within the congregation. This is why so many cases have been grossly mishandled, pedophiles had opportunity to abuse more JW children, and victims were further harmed and traumatized.
    Regarding your nonsensical objection about 'forcing' - reporting to the police or child protection services is forcing a criminal act to be exposed and stopped, and the perpetrator of that crime to be called to account and punished. 
    What should the elder do if he suspects child abuse and/or neglect?
    "If you suspect a child is being harmed, or has been harmed, you should report your concerns to the appropriate authorities, such as child protective services (CPS), in the State where the child resides. Each State has trained professionals who can evaluate the situation and determine whether help and services are needed. Most States have a toll-free number to call to report suspected child abuse and neglect. Child Welfare Information Gateway, a service of the Children’s Bureau, Administration for Children and Families (ACF), provides a list of State child abuse and neglect reporting numbers and information on how to make a report in each State.
    "Another resource for information about how and where to file a report of suspected child abuse or neglect is the Childhelp® National Child Abuse Hotline. Childhelp® can be reached 7 days a week, 24-hours a day, at its toll-free number, 1.800.4-A-CHILD® (1.800.422.4453)." -
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "Anyone can report suspected child abuse or neglect. Reporting abuse or neglect can protect a child and get help for a family it may even save a child's life." -
    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "Anyone." Rather than dump all the responsibility of reporting the crime to a frightened and perhaps dysfunctional family, the elders can take the initiative to report themselves. 
    What if the crime wasn't child abuse but murder? Should an elder keep an allegation to himself about a murder having taken place thinking, 'It's the victim's family that has the responsibility to notify the authorities - not me"?
    The article in the OP is not discussing this type of scenario but that of adults abusing minors. Besides, the latest August 2016 BOE letter clarifies what the Org. means by 'child abuse' on p.3:
    10. Congregation Considerations: When discussing child sexual abuse from a congregation standpoint, we are not discussing a situation in which a minor who is a willing participant and who is approaching adulthood is involved in sexual activity with an adult who is a few years older than the minor. Nor, generally speaking, are we discussing situations in which only minors are involved. (See paragraphs 24-25.) Rather, we are referring to an adult guilty of sexually abusing a minor who is a young child, or an adult guilty of sexual involvement with a minor who is approaching adulthood but was not a willing participant.
    Baloney. You have to be convicted as a sex offender to be put on the sex offenders list.
    Elders are required to follow the Org's instructions. No mind-reading was involved. 
    Exactly. The governmental authorities have those processes and powers. This is why they have to be called on to act when crimes have been committed. As the apostle Paul said,
    "Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God.  So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.  For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you.  The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong.  So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience." - Rom. 13:1-5 (NLT)
    And what 'rules of evidence' does the congregation employ in its handling of child abuse allegations?
    Shouldn't 'evidence' rather be collected by professional police bodies rather than by untrained, volunteer leaders?
    Actually 2 cases - 2 victims who, out of more than 1000 recorded cases by the Australian Branch, were brave enough to relate their experiences before a public inquiry. 
    It means that the UK WTS have been unsuccessful in blocking the Charity Commission from investigating how the UK congregations deal with child abuse allegations. The Commission can now go ahead with their inquiries. Read the article.
    Backing up to your initial statement, namely ... 
    "as I recall, in the Australia case, that 1 witness “begged” the Elders NOT to turn her father into authorities. Are you suggesting by any means and force?"
    ... You were implying that, if a minor victim begged the elders not to turn in her father to the authorities for sexually abusing her, that the elders should comply; that the elders should not 'force' that action upon her. Hence my question about your mental state. Your suggestion is extremely irresponsible and dangerous, for such compliance would further enable the abuser to continue abusing. It's astonishing that I should have to spell this out to you as if you were a child yourself.
    You are projecting once again. What was complete and utter bunkum was your argument that 'forcing the child to the police department' - whether by the elders or the child's mother - would amount to 'child abduction.' This fancy of yours is totally ludicrous. 
    Well duh. And your point is ...? 
    Aaaand another senseless ad hominem rant. Your trademark. To repeat:
    The article in the OP is about JWs. This thread is in the JW section. Ergo, we are discussing how JWs deal with child abuse within their organization. 
    Do you get how topical sections in a discussion forum work?
    So you believe historical child sexual abuse cases are not 'legitimate'? 
    Are the government-led inquiries into institutional historical child abuse, because the cases may include instances that occurred 40, 50 years ago, likewise not 'legitimate' and are decided with 'the aid of corrupt lawyers'?
    Are you aware that many countries have a statute of limitations that bar victims from making civil claims for sexual crimes after a set amount of time? So, a victim would be unable to civilly prosecute somebody 40, 50 years later. Are you familiar with the controversy surrounding Bill Cosby and why it has been so difficult to prosecute him due to the time that has elapsed since his alleged crimes?
    This is the most sensible thing you have said in the whole discussion. However, evidence gathering is done by the police and forensic teams, and the legal system decides whether there is enough to potentially secure a conviction in criminal court and/or a favorable judgment in civil court.
    Huh? What does that even mean?
    Yeah whatever. This scripture has no bearing on how best to safeguard children now.

        
  16. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Jehovah's Witnesses under pressure over handling of sexual abuse claims   
    Oops. I didn't see you'd already linked to the article before I did. 
    Another noteworthy comment from it:
    Rom. 13:3-5 (NLT) - "For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. 4 The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. 5 So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience." 
  17. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from The Librarian in Zechariah 3 - How was the High Priest "a log snatched out of the fire"?   
    This is a good topic that seems to have gotten buried, but thought I’d give you a few thoughts on it. (sorry, they have come to be more than few)

    Joshua represented the remnant of God’s chosen people and priesthood who had fallen gravely into the sin, including idolatry.  The use of the word, “log” in the NWT seems rather awkward; Strong’s defines it as, “from an unused root meaning to rake together; a poker (for turning or gathering embers):—(fire-) brand.”

    In the account, Satan accuses them; while Christ stands as the Angel of the Lord and their advocate. 

    And the LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?”  Zech 3:2

    Another reference where this analogy is used is in Amos 4:11 The account in Zech 3 shows the cleansing from sin directed toward the repentant remnant by their donning new garments, a new identity: 

     “Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the Angel.4 Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, “Take away the filthy garments from him.” And to him He said, “See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.”5 And I said, “Let them put a clean turban on his head. “So they put a clean turban on his head, and they put the clothes on him. And the Angel of the Lord stood by.

    The prophetic words following these, show that by walking completely in God’s laws, his people become  “symbolic of things to come” with the coming of Christ, and is the present situation with God’s chosen priesthood.  Zech 3:8-10

     “Behold, I send My messenger,
    And he will prepare the way before Me.
    And the Lord, whom you seek,
    Will suddenly come to His temple, (Matt 24:42; Luke 12:37)

    Even the Messenger of the covenant,
    In whom you delight.
    Behold, He is coming,”
    Says the Lord of hosts.

     “But who can endure the day of His coming?
    And who can stand when He appears?
    For He is like a refiner’s fire
    And like launderers’ soap.
     He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver;
    He will purify the sons of Levi,
    And purge them as gold and silver,
    That they may offer to the Lord
    An offering in righteousness.  Mal 3:1-3 (4-7)

    The cleansing of the priesthood comes upon them because of conditions present among God’s people, as has always been the case.  For the sake of God’s holy name, a remnant is purified and cleansed from all defilement.  Ezek 36:22; Dan 12:1; Zech 3:2-4; (Rev 19:8) Zech 2:12; Rev 9:14

    Walking into the WT organization does not signify the result of this cleansing, but rather, it represents a time of discipline God “sends” on his people.  God’s priesthood is lulled into a sense of “peace and security” (Micah 3:5,11; Jer 8:11; 1 Thess 5:3; Rev 3:2,3), and readily allow others to rule over them.  Dan 11:36; 2 Thess 2:4; Matt 24:24; Ezek 11:12; 8:10; Matt 24:15; Micah 6:16; 22;30; Dan 7:21,25; Rev 13:7; 9:4,5,10  It is from that state of stupor that a remnant awakes, becoming like a “brand” is snatched from the fire. 

    “For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light  (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)  and find out what pleases the Lord.  Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.  It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.  But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:

    “Wake up, sleeper,
        rise from the dead,
        and Christ will shine on you.”  Eph 5:8-14  (Jude 1:20-23)

    Any false doctrine that God’s chosen ones tolerate – false doctrine as either “new light” or interpretations based on man’s assumptions and rule, is spiritual fornication.  Rev 17:2; 18:3; 1 Cor 6:15,16 Only for the sake of God’s name does he cut short this deception, otherwise “no flesh would be saved”.  Matt 24:22; 2 Thess 2:4,9; Rev 12:9; 13:11,14; 14:8 Luke 13:23,24; 1 Pet 4:18; Rom 9:29; Isa 1:9; 10:21,22; Ezek 17:22; Psalm 72:16

    “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.  All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.  But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.”   Eph 2:1-5 

    Our identity is signified by where our loyalty and devotion lies.  The WT expects one at baptism to literally accept the identity of a “Jehovah’s Witness” with the WT organization, and that identity is seen through actions of service toward the organization and acceptance of all teachings. Matt 6:24 Could this be considered the same as donning white robes, clean of all defilement, since the WT teaches it is a “spiritual paradise”?  It cannot be when the organization is established in the world belonging to Satan, and having access to all of Satan’s tools.  Nothing in Satan’s world is clean and acceptable to our unchanging God.  God’s priesthood of anointed ones must wake up and “buy” this refinement now from Christ, not on the presumed timetable of man.

     "So I advise you to buy gold from me—gold that has been purified by fire. Then you will be rich. Also buy white garments from me so you will not be shamed by your nakedness, and ointment for your eyes so you will be able to see." (Rev.3:18)  By following completely in the path of Christ, this refinement comes with a price, “death” for truth.  Rev 6:9-11  If we boldly claim our stand for the truth in Christ, this “death” is at the hands of the elder body (Rev 11:7) who received authority to disfellowship from the false prophet/harot/wicked steward.  Rev 13:15


     
    Great Tribulation 
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  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Jehovah's Witnesses under pressure over handling of sexual abuse claims   
    Today's news from the guardian, UK:

    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Words to the Governing Body:
    "I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers,  but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers?  To have lawsuits at all with one another is already a defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded?  But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers!"  1 Cor 6:5-8
  19. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Ann O'Maly in Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?   
    Here are few more, Ann.
    KINGDOM MINISTRY 11/90 p. 1 -  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization:
    "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."

    WT981/11/15 p. 212  “Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation” 

    MAKE SURE OF ALL THINGS, pg 323 – Righteous flee to God’s Mountain-like Organization”

    Isa 57:13 – “When you cry out, let your collection of idols deliver you!  The wind will carry all of them off, a breath will take them away.  But whoever takes refuge in Me will inherit the land and possess My holy mountain.”


     

     
  20. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from HollyW in Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?   
    Here are few more, Ann.
    KINGDOM MINISTRY 11/90 p. 1 -  Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization:
    "Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established."

    WT981/11/15 p. 212  “Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation” 

    MAKE SURE OF ALL THINGS, pg 323 – Righteous flee to God’s Mountain-like Organization”

    Isa 57:13 – “When you cry out, let your collection of idols deliver you!  The wind will carry all of them off, a breath will take them away.  But whoever takes refuge in Me will inherit the land and possess My holy mountain.”


     

     
  21. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?   
    Nope. Watchtower's own comments that contradict your claim.
    In short, nothing to do with your statement about being saved by works of law and the apostle Paul's rebuttal to that idea.
  22. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?   
    Didn't you read the quotes? What did I twist and manipulate? The quotes are verbatim and properly referenced so that anyone can check the wider context for themselves. They are what they are. Too bad if you don't like it.
     
    What has that to do with your statement about being saved by works of law and the apostle Paul's rebuttal to that idea (my Gal. quote and your Eph. reference)? 
  23. Upvote
    Witness reacted to HollyW in Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?   
    Thanks for those quote, Ann.  
    It's also certainly implied in the November 15, 2013 wt:
    [w13 11/15 p.20 Study Edition] At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.
    In the simplified edition, the WTS directions are to be followed even if they sound strange or unusual, and even if JWs don't agree with them:
    [w13 11/15 p.20 Simplified Edition] At that time, the direction that you receive from Jehovah’s organization may seem strange or unusual. But all of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether we agree with them or not, because obeying these instructions will save our lives.
  24. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Is the WTS the organization Jehovah is using?   
    Never?
    *** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***
    But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy. (Compare John 6:66-69.) 
    *** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***
    Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4)
    *** w85 3/1 p. 22 par. 21 Jehovah ‘Speeds It Up’ ***
    Let us point all homing “doves” to the way of “salvation” behind the protective walls of Jehovah’s organization and increase “praise” to him at its gates. 
    *** w81 11/15 p. 21 par. 18 ‘Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses’ ***
    And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a “great war cry.”
    *** w67 8/15 p. 499 par. 4 The Way to Security ***
    So the visible congregation of God’s people has something to do with the provision of salvation today. Indeed, it has an important place in that provision. Every congregation forms a small part of God’s people. We cannot remain outside the organization of God’s people, separated from it, if we want to have Jehovah’s protection.
    *** w67 8/15 p. 503 par. 19 The Way to Security ***
    If we want to assure our everlasting salvation, we must stay within the bounds of Jehovah God’s loving provision associated with his visible organization, presided over by his High Priest. 
     
     
  25. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from HollyW in WATCHTOWER FALSE PROPHECIES   
    "So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?  These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? . . . This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses . . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197).


     

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