Shiwiii

You Cannot Have A Lessor perfection, It Either is or Is not.

We might consider just who is hiding behind a façade.  

Some of your words:  It is up to the body of Elders to use their “BEST” judgment on how to proceed with a sensitive matter. Even the ARC was blinded by ignorant opposers. Ex-witnesses that called and emailed them, by thinking…this would be the end of the WTS, they attempted to sensationalize a situation that ultimately the ARC found out it was full of “Lies” and “distortions” just like you are deceptively portraying now.

So unless you have personal knowledge on what goes on behind a judicial committee, STOP speculating. You are clueless, on what an Elders responsibility is toward the flock with such matters that require wisdom and discernment. The Governing Body can’t be everywhere. The flock book, is a general guideline book, for Elders to understand or have a basic concept on how to proceed with matters.

It seems more important to defend the GB and the elder body than to come to aid of, or feel remorse for, victims in over 1000 alleged cases not reported in one country alone. Would there be a reason to defend such failed attention to the flock if Holy Spirit was guiding the leaders?  John 16:30; 2 Pet 1:3

"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him."  James 1:5
Whatever GB Jackson said in his deposition to his defense makes no difference in rectifying the damage already done, and still being committed.  If policy must continually be changed, what is the underlying cause if not because of a lack of Holy Spirit?  Would Jackson need any help from a government to make “mandatory reporting” if one truly followed Christ’s teachings?

“For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.”  Matt 5:20

Rom 13:1 – “Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.”

“Then Pilate said to Him, ‘Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?’ Jesus answered, ‘You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above.  Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.’  John 19:10,11

The WT uses 1 Cor 6:1 as one of their reasons for not reporting such a crime.  By checking the Greek word for “dispute” used here and in other scriptures, “pragma”, it’s use is concerning smaller affairs, transactions, business matters, things, deeds, and NOT something as serious as child abuse.  The GB willingly adheres to the scripture Deut 19:15, but GB Jackson refused to recognize Deut 22:25,26 as a vital one to consider.

Stewart -  “Is it not the case that had Jesus been asked about a case of sexual abuse, he may have referred back to this part of Deuteronomy and said that it’s not required to have two witnesses?”

Jackson -  “I certainly would like to ask Jesus that, and I can’t at the moment, I hope to in the future. But that’s a hypothetical question which, if we had an answer, then we could support what you said.”

If the words spoken in Deuteronomy are from God, why the hesitancy to consider them?  Why chose one verse in this book, but not consider another?  Jackson’s own stumbling over Stewart’s question shows the lack of God’s blessing in wisdom that a genuine anointed in Christ would be aware of, if they are truly still one in Christ. 1 Cor 10:6-12  To allow such evils to be committed, time and time again, shows a huge glitch in the system, and that glitch is the absence of Holy Spirit.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.  John 14:26

 Whenever God’s people worked in harmony with his will, blessings were rich in all matters of their life.  The flock was protected by the knowledge God gave his priesthood and their leaders.  Deut 24:8; Mal 2:7; 2 Chron 35:3

“Does any one of you who has a dispute with another dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones?”  1 Cor 6:1

While this scripture is given credence to the elder body in decision making, is the elder body comprised of God’s holy anointed ones – his chosen priesthood? 2 Chron 23:6; 1 Pet 2:5,9; Heb 8:5

“Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.  Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.  For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.  Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake.  For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.”  Rom 13:1-7

It appears, that the GB’s refusal to consider all scripture shows that the primary concern of the organization is its own worldly outward appearance and their struggle to keep up a frontage of cleanliness; caring not for what happens to God’s sheep.  Jer 23:2; Isa 1:17; Eccl 4:1

“Woe to those who decree unrighteous decrees,
Who write misfortune,
Which they have prescribed

To rob the needy of justice,
And to take what is right from the poor of My people,
That widows may be their prey,
And that they may rob the fatherless. Isa 10:1,2

He who justifies the wicked, and he who condemns the just,
Both of them alike are an abomination to the Lord.  Prov 17:15

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!

 Woe to men mighty at drinking wine,
Woe to men valiant for mixing intoxicating drink,
 Who justify the wicked for a bribe,
And take away justice from the righteous man!  Isa 5:20-23

Christ’s commandments are based on love, love expressed toward his sheep. 1 Thess 4:9; 1 Pet 4:8; John 13:35  Through the blessing of Holy Spirit, love is made manifest in one’s heart.  If the leaders of the organization  worked in harmony with Christ and his love, there would be no question on how to deal with such offenses.  Did Jesus ever hesitate?

“But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?”  1 John 3:17


 
http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/08/who-really-is-matt2445.html


 

 

 

 

 

This portion of the transcript confirms exactly what I said, They would rather have to be forced to contact authorities then change their policy. This proves that they know the policy is flawed, but are reluctant to change it. 

This portion of the transcript confirms exactly what I said, They would rather have to be forced to contact authorities then change their policy. This proves that they know the policy is flawed, but are reluctant to change it. 

It's shameful that victims of abuse have to face this kind of condemnation from JWs such as yourself who are trying to protect the WTS at all costs.  It's difficult enough for a victim of abuse to come forward.  With this kind of criticism awaiting them, it's a wonder any of them have brought this profound fault within the WTS to light.

From the lawsuits brought against them, they are failing miserably.  And from your attitude, they've failed to instill in you their goal of "treating such ones with thoughtfulness, tenderness, and kindness." [2010 Shepherd the Flock of God, p.53]

I hope that at some point you try to use truth to set the record straight.  Your religion did celebrate Christmas, and were doing so at a time you say Jesus was inspecting them and finding them "faithful and wise", dispensing spiritual food in due season.  Was that the season to be celebrating Christmas?

 

You either failed to do your research or choose to bury your head in the sand. Mr. Jackson admitted that their policy was flawed, but he wanted the ARC to force mandatory reporting so that the burden would not be on the society. So Mr. Jackson acknowledged that the ARC was not full of "lies", but rather correct. 
 
 

Allen, perhaps reading comprehension wasn't your best subject.   As I said,  learning something new is quite different from having learned something false in first grade that had to be corrected in fifth grade.  Let me give you a 'for instance' to help shed light on what I said.  In first grade 2 + 2 was 4.  In fifth grade it was still the same even when other math concepts were taught. 
Do you understand?
I agree with you that it is Bible truth that matters, not personal opinions about wrong expectations or wrong understandings.  When a religious leader says that Bible truth is the child born in Rev 12 is the antichrist, would that be something Jesus would consider food in due season?  The WTS says he would and did, selecting the WTS as God's sole channel of communication to mankind when they were teaching it.
Does that appear to be reasonable to you?
In every single child molestation case there are already two witnesses: the victim and the predator.  The men on the WTS governing body need to know that and report every accusation to the proper authorities.  They want to hide behind an OT law that was never, ever applied to the molestation or rape of a child.  If they are not in tune with Jehovah's heart on this, they need to step down from their leadership positions.

You're probably right. Yes it is funny that they only believe that the 144k get the perfection like Jesus and the rest get perfection like Adam, but yet consider them equally perfect prior to Adam's sin.
You know this word "perfect" and the jw meaning, fits perfectly in the B.I.T.E. model under the thought control. To most everyone the word means without flaw, unless it is spoken of in context to mean otherwise. But under thought control, they can freely switch it to whatever suits the need at the time and what works best for the group. This keeps the average group member in a cocoon of sorts and only those who are in the cocoon know what the words mean to them. 

SO What You Are Telling Me Is That You Learned Things Opposite Of What You Learned From Grade To grade? Not a building block from the grade before? Sad. Education is supposed to be a progression upon what you already learned, not a complete reversal of the grade before.

The WTS will NOT stagnate on its understanding by NOT putting the proper revision in place.
 
Then why has the child abuse policy stayed the same? Not reporting to authorities on EACH AND EVERY CASE!

I would hope, that what you learned in “first” grade would be something entirely different in “Fifth” grade.
 
Hogwash, each grade is built upon the previous,  not changing to something opposite 

that very well may be their position, but the fact of the matter is that perfection has no flaw.
A perfect puzzle piece fits without gap. It fits the purpose it was designed for, but in no way is it perfect. It is made of cardboard and when wet it deteriorates. I can accept the application of something being a perfect fit, but to assign perfection as a whole to Adam and Eve is wrong. They were designed to perfectly fit the environment God created for them, but they themselves were not "perfect, without flaw or blemish" or they would have never sinned. The perfection that one attains at the time of God's calling to Himself, is perfection in the absolute sense. This is not attainable while we are still here on Earth and absent from the Lord. 

Your first two examples are speaking of Jesus, and I think we both agree that Jesus was perfect. Perfect in the purest form, without flaw or blemish. The second two examples are applied to men, however the difference here is that we as man can never attain perfection on our own merit. Jesus was not saying that if you sell all of your things and give it to the poor you will be perfect. Not at all, what He was saying was in your heart strive to help and bless others. Also, that in which you sacrifice, which has value here on Earth, to help others is an exchange for the blessings you will receive in Heaven. Not because you gave them up, but rather your hearts desire for others. This is God's love and that was what Jesus was saying in Matt 5:48, strive to have the same love for others as God has for you. We can never make this happen on our own, because we all fall short of the glory of God. Do you really believe that Jesus was saying we could actually be perfect here and now, just as the Father is? 

JWT,
I have gone through all of your posts and, correct me if I am wrong, but I found only one possible quote from the Watchtower.  I say possible because there was no reference to the article.  Instead, I see you rely on the Matthew Henry Commentary consistently. Is he a JW?

I find this rather interesting, since you heavily support the GB but don’t rely on their words. Pondering on this brings the thought that others actually write the articles for the GB’s approval. This also shows that the GB no longer has connection with the vine of Christ.  Hmmm.  Mal 2:7; Heb 13:15; 1 John 2:27; John 15:4; 8:32; 1 John 1:6

In reality, this well supports an alternate priesthood feeding the sheep, other than the beloved GB.  Num 16:10; 2 Chron 13:9; Ezek 44:6-9; 2 Thess 2:4; Dan 11:31; Matt 24:15  

It is futile to go on bantering back and forth, JWT.  As you attack my person continually, it shows me that truly, love is not found in the organization by most; although, there are exceptions among JWs on this forum. Since you have no idea just how important it is for JWs to wake up; and thinking I am here because of hate for my own brothers and sisters, I am saddened to think that when Christ visibly arrives, those of the majority, whether part of the Body of Christ or all sheep, will still be found protecting their great mountainlike organization.

Samaria's king shall perish
    like a twig on the face of the waters.
8 The high places of Aven, the sin of Israel,
    shall be destroyed.
Thorn and thistle shall grow up
    on their altars,
and they shall say to the mountains, “Cover us,”
    and to the hills, “Fall on us.”  Hos 10:7,8

 “But turning to them Jesus said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children.  For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’  Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’  For if they do these things when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?”  Luke 23:28-30

“Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,  for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”  Rev 6:15-17

“Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain. And he shall bring forward the top stone amid shouts of ‘Grace, grace to it!’”  Zech 4:7

“The second angel blew his trumpet, and something like a great mountain, burning with fire, was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.  A third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”  Rev 8:8,9

“The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,  nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.”  Rev 9:20,21


 

I really wish you would put YOUR thoughts down, instead of cut and pasting from some other source. 

Glad you asked John. I don't understand your question of my reasoning not jiving with what Paul said. I am only using scripture.
1 Cor 15:23-28 is a description of the order of resurrection. First Christ, then those who belong to Christ. that part I think we agree on. The first resurrection. There is no mention of the second resurrection in 1 Cor 15:23-28. Where I think we differ is the establishment of "the end" in verse 24. This part is after the 1000 years, and after the release of Satan to again mislead, after everything. Notice though in verse 25, where scripture tells us that Jesus must reign until the last enemy is defeated (death). Where in Revelation does it talk about death being done away with? Rev 20:14 which comes directly after the second resurrection in verses 12&13. The account in 1 Cor is a brief synopsis of what is going to happen. We know that this is not written in chronological order because of what Revelation 20 says. It is telling us what order those who are resurrected will be, not when the events take place. This set of scriptures parallel those in 1 Thess 4:15&16. Again, there is no mention of a second resurrection in these set of scriptures either. 
No and yes. Yes it will be Jesus voice. I say no because you are eluding to this happening during Jesus reign, it is not. 1 Thess 4:16 tells us that Jesus voice will raise those who died in Him, then those who are still alive, who are in Christ, will join those who were resurrected. We know that these ones are righteous because they are in Christ, so according to Rev 20:4&5 this has to be the first resurrection and they are those who will reign with Jesus. This happens at the return of Jesus as stated in 1 Thess 4:15. This allows for the co-rulers to actually rule for a full 1000 years. If it were just a few here and a few after 10 years and a few 400 years into the 1000 year reign, then there would be co-rulers who did not reign for the full 1000 years and scripture doesn't state "rule and reign for 600+ years of the 1000 year reign".
yes, it is Jesus voice. John 5:28&29 supports Rev 20:12-15 as the 2nd resurrection. Daniel 12:2 also supports this account in John and Revelation. 
 
I'm with you up to this point. 
 
Here is where I disagree, When everything is perfect is after Satan has been destroyed. Revelation 21 speaks of a new Heaven and a new Earth, thus made perfect. This can only happen after Satan has been defeated, or else it wouldn't be perfect. Revelation chapter 20 tells us nothing about everything being perfect, only that Jesus will rule and reign for 1000 years. There is nothing in scripture that speaks of this 1000 years of being made perfect, nor of a resurrection during the 1000 year reign. It is after the 1000 years that Satan, the beast, the false prophet and death and Hades are destroyed, then and only then can everything be perfect. 

Here, let me refresh your memory and provide the transcript of the opening questions Mr. Jackson was asked: 
 
6       Q.   Do you recognise, Mr Jackson ‐ and in asking this      
    7       question, let me make it clear, I'm not suggesting it is     
     8       peculiar to the Jehovah's Witness organisation, there are       
   9       many, many organisations in this position ‐ but do you        
 10       accept that the Jehovah's Witness organisation has        
 11       a problem with child abuse amongst its members?        
 12       A.   I accept that child abuse is a problem right        
 13       throughout the community and it's something that we've had      
   14       to deal with as well.       
  15         
16       Q.   Do you accept that the manner in which your        
 17       organisation has dealt with allegations of child sexual        
 18       abuse has also presented problems?      
  19       A.   There have been changes in policies over the last 20        
 20       or 30 years, where we've tried to address some of those        
 21       problem areas, and by the fact that they have changed the       
  22       policy would indicate that the original policies weren't       
  23       perfect.        
 24        
 25       Q.   And you accept, of course, that your organisation,        
 26       including people in positions of responsibility, like       
  27       elders, is not immune from the problem of child sexual        
 28       abuse?         
29       A.   That appears to be the case.
 
By mentioning "that appears to be the case" shows Mr. Jackson's acceptance that there is in fact abuse at the hands of JW's in authority. The whole reason why the ARC had this inquiry was because the WT did not report to police. So acknowledgement that this is the case, and acknowledgement of the purpose of the hearing supports my claim. 
 
Actually the Campos case has the WT in Contempt of court and is being fined $4000 a day for failure to hand over documents. 
" A San Diego Superior Court judge has ordered the Church of Jehovah's Witnesses, also known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, to pay $4000 a day for every day that it fails to produce documents requested... "
" ... judge Richard Strauss admonished the church for willfully ignoring a court order to produce all documents associated with a 1997 Body of Elders letter that church leaders sent to parishes around the world in a quest to learn about sexual abuse of children by church leaders. "
 
If this were a clerical error, then why have they not produced the documents yet? They are spending YOUR WWW donations daily to keep their records out of court! 

One of Your Own popes, Geoffrey Jackson, has admitted that there have been molesters within the organization that have not been turned over to authorities. This isn't behind the scenes,  but rather under oath in a court of law, Caesars law, to which the Bible tells us we must obey.
Maybe you should watch the Australian royal commission and see for yourself.  Or you can research the San Diego superior court case against Mr Campos.
I'm not afraid to have my posts challenged, in fact I would hope each and every one of them are. Then we have discussion.  You need to come to the table with proof of your claims and I will do the same. I've given you my proof, please provide yours.

This Statement By You Is Very telling. You have no idea of the facts, only what the wt has told you. For you to call these cases a money grab and that they are "shysters", when you know nothing of the abuse. The wt has admitted to the fact that these were substantiated claims and that they also have the proof and in some cases confessions. But you can't accept this. So you put your fingers in your ears and scream la la la la I can't hear you.
 
Also by liking your own posts to puff up your "status" is par for the course with the wt too.

"And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.  And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.  But the one who endures to the end will be saved.  And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."  Matt 24:11-14

The love of many will grow cold, as the result of lawlessness - a falling away from the commandments of Christ – to love one another as oneself, and to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind; both of which the organization cannot boast of doing. 

Take comfort in knowing, Shiwiii, that the true gospel being preached is the coming of Christ and the call to “come out of her my people” (Rev 18:4-8) and repent for our sins, as the New Covenant reaches fulfillment. As JWs look for the “Great Tribulation” still to come, they have no clue how the heart and soul undergo a tribulation when issues like your own, as well as choosing truth in Christ over the lies in the organization, affects the person.  In my opinion, the Great Tribulation is underway and hearts are making their choice based on their own desires – to serve God or man.

Most certainly you are in my prayers.

One of Your Own popes, Geoffrey Jackson, has admitted that there have been molesters within the organization that have not been turned over to authorities. This isn't behind the scenes,  but rather under oath in a court of law, Caesars law, to which the Bible tells us we must obey.
Maybe you should watch the Australian royal commission and see for yourself.  Or you can research the San Diego superior court case against Mr Campos.
I'm not afraid to have my posts challenged, in fact I would hope each and every one of them are. Then we have discussion.  You need to come to the table with proof of your claims and I will do the same. I've given you my proof, please provide yours.

This Statement By You Is Very telling. You have no idea of the facts, only what the wt has told you. For you to call these cases a money grab and that they are "shysters", when you know nothing of the abuse. The wt has admitted to the fact that these were substantiated claims and that they also have the proof and in some cases confessions. But you can't accept this. So you put your fingers in your ears and scream la la la la I can't hear you.
 
Also by liking your own posts to puff up your "status" is par for the course with the wt too.

Aren't you reading a little too far into this and creating a persecution complex for the society? I for one do not believe this to be true of jws in general,  but to fabricate a spin is just like the wt to do, instead of taking the "news" at face value. 
Now the second half is something completely different.  The refusal to turn over documents that they had already turned over is appalling,  unless they have something to hide. The details of the first turn over, being redacted beyond recognition is hiding something. If they stand for truth and what Jesus stood for, then they should have no problem.

This is his only structure, built on love, of which I brought out above:

“Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”  They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. John 2:19,20

1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:22, 22,20; Ps 118:22; 1 Cor 12:27,18,28; 1 Cor 11:28,28,31; Rev 20:6; James 1:18, Rev 14:4

You still haven’t shown me any other arrangement.  The early temple arrangement was a shadow of this new Temple in Christ.

They serve in a sanctuary that is a copy, a shadow of the heavenly one. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tent: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”  Heb 8:5

These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.  Col 2:17

Heb 10:1; 1 Pet 2:5,9,10

We know that on the hearts of these anointed ones are God’s laws written by the holy spirit, which causes them to “bear witness” through their works when in harmony with these laws. 2 Cor 3:3; Rom 2:12-16

“So how can one be of one body and one mind, if one does not build upon the structure with obedience.”

Obedience to whom?  To man?  And what structure can man build as equal to what God has created?  The structure built upon, is Christ and the anointed Body, to the benefit of all.  Our obedience is not to men (obey God as ruler rather than men), but to the Father and Christ.  Acts 5:29; Rom 6:16 

You say,  “Those instructions were passed down in a form of obedience to direction by God’s inspired word.”

Are you implying this obedience must come through men, when we are to obey the gospel, God and Christ?  Gal 3:1; 5:7; 2 Thess 1:8

"Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching (from God). My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them." John 14:23

Paul said, “And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed.”  2 Thess 3:14   This says nothing about obeying men and their uninspired writings (which they agree are not inspired); but the gospel which is inspired.

If we obey what Jesus taught, we are obeying God.  John 12:49  Now, if you throw in Heb 13:17 which says…

 Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

Look at the word for, “who rule over you”, G2233, which means basically, to “lead, to go before, to be a leader”.  In the Body of Christ, there are leaders to lead one to Christ and obey his teachings through fine fruits of the holy spirit. (Mal 2:7-9)  Jesus was a leader who washed his disciple's feet.  This is leading by example in servitude and humility. Paul was one of those leaders, who would teach as you say….

“These instructions were given for the purpose of not deviating away from the message. For us to get it straight, so that our teaching would be sound when teaching others.”

That’s the key, isn’t it, sound teaching in Christ; which the Wt doesn’t display through their historic failed prophesies and their present infamous words showing otherwise:

At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint.  w13 11/15 pp. 16-20 –

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers 2 Tim 4:3

This is the exact scripture you pointed out to me.  A true leader in Christ would say, “Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.”  2 Tim 1:13

“There is a chain of command per say to fulfilling all of our godly devotion.”

One of the WT lawyers actually did compare the organization the Catholic Church and its hierarchy. 

 Calvin Rouse -  “We are a hierarchical religion just like the Catholic Church.  And when the order from the Pope comes down in the church defrocking a priest and kicking him out, he no longer has any say in any matter in the local parish priest”

Once upon a time, it was said:

“Who, then, is doing the discipling work today? There can be no doubt of this. It is the Christian witnesses of Jehovah. The revival of the work of making disciples is to be found in that organization in these last days. They have freed themselves from the constricting creeds and contaminating false doctrines of the nominal churches. They have freed themselves from the hierarchical, congregational and all other forms of church rule that are unscriptural and they are governed by theocratic rule.” (w66 4/1 p205)

There is no superiority within the body of Christ! Paul continually built up the body in love, while the GB has torn it down in lack of love due to an atmosphere of superiority. 

Paul’s words:

Rom 12:13 - 3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.  If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it. 1 Cor 12:24-26

 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave.  Matt.20:26,27

The GB teaches obedience to them; thus, this is your "chain of command". If they were truly a servant as Paul, not only to the whole Body of Christ but to all; they would “slave” as such a servant in humility, but instead prefer the best seat with a title only Jesus Christ will give to any servant who proves faithful. 

Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. 1 PET 4:10

 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.  Matt 20:16

“You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, (for instance, “defrocking a priest and kicking him out”) you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.  Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.  So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?  Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? Rom 2:1-4

Does this last scripture allow for any judgment on the part of GB to wield against one’s own brother through disfellowshiping or to submit to obedience...to mere men?  This is the difference between Christ’s total arrangement and the centralized authoritative arrangement by men, where love cannot exist.

 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them.  Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”  Matt 20:25-28

Take these scriptures and align them with the WT comment that obedience is necessary even if doctrine is not “sound”. 

"It is extremely important for us to obey the elders.  Why?  Think of how Jehovah gave instructions to his people so that they could survive difficult times in the past."  WT 11/2013

This is not the guidance Paul gave, in fact to those who were lording it over others he said,

“ For who makes you differ from another? 1 Cor 4:7

The genuine anointed GB has chosen for themselves the title “faithful slave” over all other anointed in Christ.  This desire for prominence is not new:

 For who makes you superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?  You already have all you want! (a self-assumed title of a faithful and discreet slave) You have already become rich! You have become kings without us! I wish you really were kings so that we could be kings with you! 9 For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display in last place, like men condemned to death. We have become a spectacle for the world, for angels, and for people to stare at. 

It is the “wicked brothers” considered “spiritually dead” that become the spectacle; all for serving Christ and the Father and knowing obedience to men is unscriptural.

We are fools for the Messiah’s sake, but you are wise in the Messiah. We are weak, but you are strong. You are honored, but we are dishonored.1 We are hungry, thirsty, dressed in rags, brutally treated, and homeless, right up to the present.  We wear ourselves out from working with our own hands. When insulted, we bless. When persecuted, we endure.  When slandered, we answer with kind words. Even now we have become the filth of the world, the scum of the universe.1 Cor 4:7-13

Those that stand up to the GB and elder body, by saying their salvation is in God and Christ alone,  follow the example of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego

“Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the gold image which I have set up?

 (Do you not accept or identify that the organizational image is sanctioned by God?)

But if you do not worship, you shall be cast immediately into the midst of a burning fiery furnace. And who is the god who will deliver you from my hands?”  Dan 3:15

Disfellowshiping ensues with the mark of a “spiritual death”  Rev 11:9

If that is the case, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and He will deliver us from your hand, O king. But if not, let it be known to you, O king, that we do not serve your gods, nor will we worship the gold image which you have set up.”

“Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”  

 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them.  Rev 11:11

Nebuchadnezzar spoke, saying, “Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-Nego, who sent His Angel and delivered His servants who trusted in Him, and they have frustrated the king’s word, and yielded their bodies, that they should not serve nor worship any god except their own God!  Dan 3:28

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.  Rev 20:4

There is no comparing Paul’s encouraging guidance to lead ones to Christ, against the GB’s assumed authority passed on to “gentile” elders who require full obedience to them.  Rom 4:4;Luke 16:10

Now concerning food offered to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.  If anyone thinks he really knows something, he has not yet learned it as he ought to know it.  But anyone who loves God is known by him.  1 Cor 8:1-3

One last thought, when the organization was instituting a governing body in the ‘70’s, Fred Franz gave a revealing talk to the Gilead Graduating class of September ’75, proving there was no governing body in the first century.  I hope you consider hearing it.  

http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/minimoog-898174-gilead-grad-talk-59th-class/

 

Foolish Virgins    http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2015/04/foolish-virgins.html

 


 

 

I give you scripture upon scripture, hoping you will open your eyes.  Yes, Christ demands unity of the Body as source of teaching and building up of one another. In prophesy, we are told that those who are “sighing and groaning” over all these detestable things is being done in the midst of “Jerusalem”.  Ezek 9:4   The anointed are God’s Temple, New Jerusalem and the location of the detestable things being committed.  1 Pet 2:5,9 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:22, 21, 20; Ps 118:22

The perceived unity within the organization is forced by men at the direction of, yes, an evil slave who demands silence among God’s chosen ones.  Concerning the entire situation of the organization, there are those who either “like it that way” (Jer 5:30,31) and continue in idolatry in God’s name (Rev 14:18,19; Jer25: 29,30) or they wake up, get out and follow God’s requirements for life.  Isa 42:18-20,23; Matt 24:37,39.

Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of a club. They do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible. W 16/1 p 20-26

“Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’  And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”  Matt 24:44-46

Learn about the Body of Christ in 1 Cor 12:1-31   Read your scriptures and put man’s opinion aside.

And what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do.  For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.  And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.  So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. 2 Cor 11:12-15

An idol is an image, a representation of anything, or a symbol that is an object of passionate devotion, whether material or imagined. It is usually practiced toward a real or supposed higher power, whether such power is believed to have animate existence (as a human, an animal, or an organization) or is inanimate (as a force or lifeless object of nature). it-1 pp. 1167-1172

We also love the organization that Jehovah uses to teach us wonderful truths. ws11 7/15 pp. 10-16

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.  For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough. 2 Cor 11:3,4