Srecko Sostar

WT Lawyer David Gnam explicit claim and argument in court is how the words “shun and shunning” do not exist in the vocabulary and practice of the JW church.
He mixing spiritual and personal needs/life, but that is not problem, because both is not separate. Must exist together . And i do not have to "justify" nothing about it because of same reasons.  
Siting near other persons and singing together with other persons (David Gnam statement) and much more than this two, belongs to that same category you named - "spiritual and personal". Why you need me to make "explanation" or "justification" on this?? I really don't understand.
What i "don't understand"  is, why lawyer David Gnam Exposé  on Court about JW religious beliefs and practice is opposite of what JW doing !!
 

As I mentioned before, in comment to Arauna, my primary response is about WT Lawyer and his false presentation of reality about dfd and shunning ! If you have something about it we can continue with conversation. Have no interest, temporary, arguing about this JW religious ideology and doctrine. Thanks!

Very true.  It is why many leave the organization.  They want nothing more to do with false doctrine.  They can use the word of God to verify their reason for leaving.   How can the GB, who repeatedly err in direction, predictions and doctrine, direct the judgment of another, as spiritually "dead"?  (Rev 13:15)
Was Harold Camping a false prophet?  Yep, but he apologized for misleading thousands with false predictions.  Is the GB a composite "false prophet"?  Yep, and they make silly excuses for misleading millions with false predictions. 
Which one is forgiven by God?  You will most like say, the GB, of course! 
But the cowards, faithless, detestable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars—their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”  Rev 21:8
 
 
 
 
 

Then we both should be called apostates.  
Disfellowshipping is an across-the-board condemnation for everything from smoking, celebrating Christmas, drunkenness, infidelity, fornication, murder, child abuse, rejection of the organization and the GB’s leadership, etc.  In ALL cases, shunning is expected.  But what do see, Arauna?  Partiality when it comes to child abuse, where the elders have hidden this sin from the congregations for years.  They have also hidden the perpetrator by allowing him into another congregation!   In many cases concerning this, who is disfellowshipped?  The victim, who is BLAMED for letting it happen!  And when he or she speaks against the failures of the elder body, that person is SHUNNED - disfellowshipped.
From my experience in the congregations, many elders were drunkards and that “finer detail” was ignored.
My oldest son moved into another state and became friends with two young men who were in the new congregation he joined.  They shared an apartment together.  One of these young men was an elder's son, who engaged in wild partying, fornication and drunkenness away from the eyes of his father and the congregation.  He maintained a good profile as a JW and received "privileges" because his father was an elder.  My son would call him on his actions when the boy would return home from partying, obviously drunk.  This added to the observation of hypocrisy that my son had perceived through hypocritical treatment of his family by the elder body, and he eventually left the organization.   When he moved away from there, he received a call from both of his previous roommates, saying that they would have to SHUN him for his choice. They were compelled to let him know this, even though he is not disfellowshipped.  He told the two-faced elder's son, "you know you don't believe in it either", and the boy told him he was right, but he loved the attention, friends and family too much to leave it.  He said it was an "easy" life.  
It is an easy life for him, because his conscience has been seared through the hypocrisy established in your organization.
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron."  1 Tim 4:1,2
 
 
"The Cost of Life" - https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-cost-of-life.html
 
 
 

What is that "different word"?  "Disfellowshipped"?  I think "shun/shunning" is more part of your (all JWs) vocabulary than you realize.
 
 
 Good question!
My question is, why is there argument over the obvious?  Is there some sort of sub-conscience guilt about the act of disfellowshipping, by referring to it as "shunning"?  Is that why the lawyer had to hide the facts?  
But then, perhaps the lawyer thought his lie would be left unchallenged, and the GB also, as JWI pointed out the act of manipulating access to articles, to show complete support of the lawyer's words. 
However, this article entitled, "Can You Be True To God, Yet Hide The Facts?",  in the WT 74/1/15 p. 35-37, makes a good point:
 
“WHAT results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm?
If you are among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today. Why? Because God’s servants in every period of history have had to face up to the challenge these issues present. They have had to expose falsehood and wrongdoing and warn people of dangers and deception—not just in a general way, but in a specific way, in the interest of pure worship. It would have been far easier to keep silent or say only what people wanted to hear. But faithfulness to God and love of neighbor moved them to speak. They realized that “better is a revealed reproof than a concealed love.”—Prov. 27:5.
 
 
 

I think i would "agree" with GB who said how internet (in fact :)) JWorg official site and JW library), is very dangerous place for true Christians aka JW members. WTJWorg IT experts can remove "spiritual food" from your "table" (a well-laden table of nourishing spiritual food served at the right time.) which is coming "from JHVH through Jesus through GB" and make it to disappear. That it looks as if something has never even been spiritual food  available for hungry and thirsty individuals who are "poor in spirit" as Bible said. When "this generation" (people who have good memory and know what was before and what was after) pass, not one of JW member in the future will never know nothing about this and other "clarifications".  
Amazing thing, internet! A supreme means of deceiving, cheating the people. 

@Witness referenced a recent Watchtower article from 2013 that shows that the word "shunning" is interchangeable with "disfellowshipping."
It was also in the same 2013 Watchtower where an article was referenced on jw.org:
*** w13 8/1 p. 2 Table of Contents ***
READ MORE ONLINE | www.jw.org
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES—Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?
(Look under ABOUT US > FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS)

The Frequently Asked Questions section is still there, but that particular article has been removed. You have to go to the Wayback Machine (internet.archive.org) and look for the article that was picked up 62 times between August 30, 2012 and February 6, 2019. (There have been 16,777 captures from the jw.org website on the Wayback Machine from 2012, and the most recent was today). The article in question says:
Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?
... We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped.
And we can go back to the 1970's up through 2016 (and website up to 2019) to see that the word "shun" was commonly used as part of our vocabulary for how we should shun disfellowshipped persons. The 1988 case has been mentioned above as it was reported in the 1988 Watchtower.
The shunning article was removed from the website in February 2019 about 15 months after the Canadian case in 2017. Just before the Canadian court presentation in 2017, the October 2017 Wathtower said this:
*** w17 October p. 16 par. 19 The Truth Brings, “Not Peace, But a Sword” ***
For example, Jehovah instructs us to “stop keeping company” with unrepentant wrongdoers. (1 Cor. 5:11-13) Despite our pain of heart, we must avoid normal contact with a disfellowshipped family member by telephone, text messages, letters, e-mails, or social media.
This is exactly at odds with Gnam's claim that normal family life goes on.
2017
*** lvs chap. 3 p. 40 par. 19 Choose Friends Who Love God ***
He may choose to leave the congregation himself, or he may have to be disfellowshipped. If this happens, the Bible clearly says that we should “stop keeping company” with him. (Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13; 2 John 9-11) This can be very difficult if he is a friend of ours or a member of our family. But in a situation like this, our loyalty to Jehovah must be stronger than our loyalty to anyone else.—See Endnote 8.
2019
*** od p. 200 Part 2: Christian Living ***
17. If an announcement is made that someone is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, how should we treat him?
• “Stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.”—1 Cor. 5:11.
• “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.”—2 John 10.
2016
It was in the 2016 Assembly where the following part of the program even included a dramatic example of how family members don't allow family life to go on normally:

But the actual word "shun" disappeared from the website in 2019 (so far).

Here, the word “shunned” is interchangeable with “disfellowshipped”:
"We do not automatically disfellowship someone who commits a serious sin. If, however, a baptized Witness makes a practice of breaking the Bible’s moral code and does not repent, he or she will be shunned or disfellowshipped. W 13/8/1
 
 
 

Definition of a hypocrite:
 
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion 2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings        

John 8:1-11:  At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger.7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
 
This account is considered by many “Bible scholars” as a “spurious” set of scriptures, meaning its authenticity is in question. Others wholeheartedly defend it as unquestionably meant to be included in the book of John.  I tend to agree. 
The Pharisees' motivation was to accuse him of breaking the law covenant – this Jesus, whose coming fulfilled the law…in love. (Matt 5:17-20; Rom 13:8-10)   What he wrote on the ground, surely was seen by the Pharisees and understood; adding an even greater reason for their shamed departure when Jesus said, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” (Matt 8:11) 
This set of scriptures is left out of the organization’s bible, supposedly for their spurious intent; but we, who no longer adhere to the organization, fully see them as challenging the authority of its elders’ “judicial” actions when their own spurious accusations of condemnation, are made against us. (Luke 12:11,12; 12:45, John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Rev 13:15)
Shortly before this occurred, Jesus had taught in the temple courts during the Festival of Tabernacles. He walked among his people who were celebrating a feast that recalled to mind, two things; that God had delivered His people out of Egypt, and to remind them of the coming Messiah, who would establish God’s new spiritual dwelling/tent or “tabernacle”, to reside among His people. (Deut 18:15; 2 Sam 7:12,13; Acts 7:44,48-51; John 2:19-21; 4:21,23,24; 1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16;6:19; Eph 2:20-22; Heb 8:1,2; Rev 21:2,3) 
 I find it helpful to know what occurred on the last day of the Feast.  On this final day, the priests carried the last containers filled with water from the pool of Siloam, “living” spring water, which they had collected for the previous days’ rituals as well.  They paraded around the altar seven times before dramatically pouring it out ceremoniously on the ground.  It was to be an act of supplication, asking for God’s continual blessing to be upon them, and the remembrance of the forty-year period Israel wandered the desert with tents (“tabernacles”/ “booths”) as their temporary dwellings.  That time was a period of relying solely on God for their sustenance, while He “dwelt” or “tabernacled” with them in the ark of the covenant.  (Lev 23:42,43; Exod 25:8,9; 29:45;  2 Sam 7:4-6) 
 “Sukkot” as it was called, was also a celebration of the end of the harvest.
“Celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles for seven days after you have gathered the produce of your threshing floor and your winepress. 14 Be joyful at your festival—you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, and the Levites, the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns. 15 For seven days celebrate the festival to the Lord your God at the place the Lord will choose. For the Lord your God will bless you in all your harvest and in all the work of your hands, and your joy will be complete.”  Deut 16:13,14
The seriousness of observing this festival is outlined in Zech 14:16-19. 
With Jesus’ arrival, the entirety of this festival observance, which had become empty in meaning because of additional traditions, decrees and over-riding sins, would change. (Matt 15:1-3; 23:23; Mark 7:6,7)  God had rejected their pomp display and altered ceremonies of sacrifice. (Hos 6:6; Matt 9:13)  
This humble and holy man, who had already been shunned by most of the Jews, would stand up among the throngs of people reveling in their festivities, and bring them a message from God.  Would they listen? (Matt 17:5)  The Pharisees had already considered ways to kill him. (John 7:1) To his brothers who also didn’t believe him, he said:
“The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.”  John 7:7
I can imagine that it was when all the Jews were intently watching the priests pour the “living waters” of Siloam on the ground, that Jesus then stood up and loudly proclaimed these words:
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.  Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”  John 7:37b,38
What did he mean by saying, “as Scripture has said”?
Prov 13:14 – “The teachings of a wise person are a fountain of life
    to turn one away from the grasp of death.”
Prov 18:4 – “The words of a person’s mouth are like deep waters.
The fountain of wisdom is an overflowing stream.”
1 Cor 10:1-4 – “Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.”
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.”  John 7:16 
“Living water” from God through Christ, contains spiritual truth, life and righteousness, which the Pharisees had rejected well before Jesus’ arrival.  (Jer 2:13; Matt 3:7-10; 23:13-15; John 4:14) 
Jesus, as the Word of God, brought to his people life-giving teachings sourced in the Father of life.  (John 1:1,4; 5:21-23)
John 5:26,27 - For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
By rejecting the coming of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, they were also rejecting God. (Matt 3:9; Luke 10:16) 
From here we move forward to the event that occurred the next morning after the feast, when the Pharisees sought to trap Jesus, who had earlier declared that God “had entrusted all judgment to the Son”.  (John 5:21-23) 
 
Having hearts "far removed from" God; we see from this situation with the adulteress, that their inclination is to condemn, and not to forgive. What is God's judgment for such hypocrites? Matt 6:15 explains. 
What is the destiny of those whose sins are not forgiven by God?  Job 7:21(NLT)
tells us that they descend into the dust, and cease to exist.   
What was Jesus writing in the dust?
Writing a name down, establishes God's judgment of condemnation or favor.  (Deut 29:20; Mal 3:16; Dan 12:1; Luke 10:20; Heb 12:23; Rev 2:17; 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27)
 
Jesus was testifying to those who sought to condemn and murder the adulteress, that their wicked and hypocritical scheme, brought condemnation upon them.
Indeed they were hypocrites.
For they themselves were guilty of being spiritual adulteresses...
(Isa 1:1,21; Jer 23:10-12; Matt 23:33-38)
...while condemning others to death.
Pearl Doxsey - “What Was Jesus Writing in the Dust?”
 
Jesus was falsely accused of being a wicked blasphemer, and was condemned to death by these men whose hardened hearts refused to accept that the Messiah had arrived.  Today, the organization freely judges all men, women and children on the basis of decrees established by a spiritual adulteress – the Harlot of Rev 13:11; 17:3,4. 
Without hesitation, its unchallenged counterfeit priesthood judges Gods holy people as spiritually “dead”, for trespassing the rules and regulations of an idol, directed by modern day Pharisees. (Rev 13:1,5-8,15)  
Just as God has always done, He “sends” His awakened servants to warn His people of their coming destruction.  (Ezek 3:17-19; Amos 3:7; Rev 11:1-3)   
Neh 9:26 – “But they were disobedient and rebelled against you.
They flung your law behind their backs
and killed your prophets
who warned them
in order to turn them back to you.
They committed terrible blasphemie”s.
God’s people were held in captivity by a powerful, evil “generation” when Jesus arrived; a generation of evil that has spanned the stream of time down to today. (Gen 2:16,17; 3:2-5; Matt 12:33; John 8:44; Matt 3:7-10; 7:15-20) 
Neh 9:36,37 - “But see, we are slaves today, slaves in the land you gave our ancestors so they could eat its fruit and the other good things it produces. 37 Because of our sins, its abundant harvest goes to the kings you have placed over us. They rule over our bodies and our cattle as they please. We are in great distress”
We face a time of even greater distress, as the existence of two Beasts have enslaved and surrounded God’s anointed and their companions, using trickery and all levels of deception. (Prov 2:12-15; Matt 24:20-25; Col 2:8; Rev 13:14;16:13-15; 20:7-9; 2 Thess 2:9-12)
Yet, as promised by the Father, another “festival of the tabernacles”, the “Marriage Feast of the Lamb”, has begun for those who have gained their freedom, and thirst for the living waters from Christ.  (Isa 48:20-22) (Matt 22:1,2,8-10; Rev 22:17)
In Jesus day, the number of Jews who believed in him and obeyed his teachings, were few.  The message was then extended to the nations for all to receive the living Word of God. (Acts 13:46) Today, most of spiritual “Israel” reject the provisions of the marriage feast; likewise, the invitation is extended to all.  (Matt 22:3,9-10)  For those of “Israel” and their companions in the organization, spiritual famine befalls them.  (Zech 14:17,18; Jer 14:2-4; Amos 8:11; Matt 24:7; Rev 6:8)
 
“Hear the word of the Lord, you nations;
    proclaim it in distant coastlands:
‘He who scattered Israel will gather them
    and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’
11 For the Lord will deliver Jacob
    and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.
12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion;
    they will rejoice in the bounty of the Lord—
the grain, the new wine and the olive oil,
    the young of the flocks and herds.
They will be like a well-watered garden,
    and they will sorrow no more.
13 Then young women will dance and be glad,
    young men and old as well.
I will turn their mourning into gladness;
    I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.
14 I will satisfy the priests with abundance,
    and my people will be filled with my bounty,”
declares the Lord.  Jer 31:10-14
 
 https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/
“Who Are the Stones that Cry out?”
Two Witnesses – “Elijah” and “Moses”
Pearl Doxsey
 

If "messy" process lead to "right" findings that would be sort of miracle. A chaotic sequence of events consequently produces harmony.  :)) Sometimes it could be possible, but each and every time?
The destruction of the notes must be supervised and there must be exact instructions as to what is being destroyed and after how long time. Some notes, especially those explaining why and how the members of the legal (judicial) committee came to extremely important findings and conclusions should have a very long lifespan in some cases forever (or as long as the parties involved are alive). Especially when it comes to cases that are legally punishable.
Elders received, as i can conclude from general understanding, directive from Bethel, Legal Department or some other WT Deportment, you would know better, to destroy some sort of notes about this and that subject. But all those elders, they do not know what the regulations and procedures are when extracting and destroying archival and registry material. I am very sure they making big mistakes in this matter.   

Yes. I think this is implied. It's a very imperfect world, and sometimes the world rubs off on us.
But this does not mean that all of the arguments made by WTS lawyers in defense of the WTS are false. I think this is what some non-Witnesses (especially, ex-Witnesses) are anxious to believe. What's shouldn't be lost here, is that many of the points that WTS lawyers make in cases about child abuse are actually quite true. For example:
The Watchtower Society/Organization is not responsible for the criminal and sinful actions of its members. Many of the arguments made in court that people complain about are merely trying to mitigate liability that was not the liability of the WTS in the first place. In many cases the victim goes after the WTS because that is the only place they can get financial redress. The primary criminal party is the perpetrator. There are times when the local elders are the ones showing negligence in after-the-fact investigations, trying to protect the reputation of the congregation or certain members of it. The liability, in this case should be on those elders. Only when following improper instructions from the WTS, should the WTS be partially liable. And even here, the local elders should understand their own personal responsibility if a process seems unconscionable. Much has been made of members of the judicial committees destroying notes made during the "investigation" process, as if this is all about a cover-up. Yet, destroying extraneous notes is (and often should be) common practice in organizations of all types, so that the findings are highlighted, not the messy process. If someone believes all elders are evil, they will think that the "official" version, which is never destroyed, is always a cover-up. But this view says more about the person imputing the wrong motives, and shows that they have not understood the typical investigation process. Watchtower disciplinary policy in congregations is not to be confused with Caesar's discipline. There are things the WTS should have done better to reduce the repetition of such crimes by perpetrators, but very little can be done about the original crime. There were things about the process in judging such matters that needed improvements too. More recently these "after-the-fact" matters and processes were handled and revised about as well as can be expected. Anyway, I only went off topic here to show that it's too easy to claim that WTS defense attorneys are constantly being dishonest. In most cases they are just using the law to protect the financial interests of the client. It's more of a negotiation, and they have to be careful what words they use. But there are also times when the "twisted" words of some attorneys shows that the WTS itself wishes it could hide some practices from the world. But if these practices are right, such as "shunning," then we should be proud to be upholding righteous counsel from the Bible. If upholding righteous counsel from the Bible makes us liable before the world, we should be proud to accept the consequences. Lying about it, or twisting words about it, makes it obvious that we are ashamed to uphold God's word in the way that we do.
This is quite separate from child abuse cases, which have also sometimes included dishonesty by both defense attorneys and attorneys for victims. But when Geoffrey Jackson argues that we don't believe that Proverbs referred to a physical rod for disciplining children, or when a Witness child custody attorney argues that our summer conventions were really more about vacation fun than spiritual education, or when . . . .
I won't turn it into an itemized list for opposers, but these things have already been commented upon elsewhere.

I haven't any information, knowledge or assumption are dishonesty of WT lawyers known to those who arrange their services before Court process. But, WTJWorg people, individuals who hired lawyers, they are certainly well acquainted with the main elements that their lawyer will use as a defense. Because of this premonition, the responsible people in the WT who deal with legal matters have a great responsibility. 
But because of the frequent practice of WT lawyers to deceive, present half-truths and obscure reality, I think that such JW individuals who hire lawyers (JW lawyers and non-JW lawyers) belong to the same described group from your comment..... And all that is possible with donated money, money that comes from various JW members, from old/young and not wealthy, from children. How sad. How very sad!

I haven't any information, knowledge or assumption are dishonesty of WT lawyers known to those who arrange their services before Court process. But, WTJWorg people, individuals who hired lawyers, they are certainly well acquainted with the main elements that their lawyer will use as a defense. Because of this premonition, the responsible people in the WT who deal with legal matters have a great responsibility. 
But because of the frequent practice of WT lawyers to deceive, present half-truths and obscure reality, I think that such JW individuals who hire lawyers (JW lawyers and non-JW lawyers) belong to the same described group from your comment..... And all that is possible with donated money, money that comes from various JW members, from old/young and not wealthy, from children. How sad. How very sad!

Watch the video Loyally Uphold Jehovah’s Judgments—Shun Unrepentant Wrongdoers, and then answer the following questions: - https://www.jw.org/en/library/jw-meeting-workbook/september-2017-mwb/meeting-schedule-sept18-24/loyal-when-relative-disfellowshipped/
 
Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes, for several reasons. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-love/disfellowshipped-person/
Synonyms for avoidance
Synonyms: cop-out, dodging, ducking, eluding, elusion, escape, eschewal, eschewing, evasion, out, shaking, shunning - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avoidance
 
You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation.
17 Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals* was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court.
18 The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, ... - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1988287#h=51
 
Please, dear JW defenders, Do you really need to defend WT lawyer Mr David Gnam twisting, lying on Court?

Lawyering (and barristering) is a whole field unto itself with its own ethics considerations, similar to how policeman in the United States are legally allowed, and often expected, to lie to a suspect to elicit incriminating information for a case. My oldest son is an attorney. In his last two years of law school they had him do paid summer internships with a well-known and well-respected firm in NYC, and they kept putting him on cases to help defend cigarette companies and insurance companies to lower their payouts. He was not an attorney yet, but he learned how the entire existence of some of the major law firms is based on their ability to get away with lying. After he took the exam and became a lawyer himself, he took a job in family court, and found, of course, that dishonesty pervades each side of arguments there, too. So now he does mostly real estate, wills and estates, and contract law. (Yet in just those few weeks of paid internship as a non-attorney he made more money than in his first year of being an attorney.)
The case with Gnam above is not nearly as serious as others, even compared to examples of other Watchtower lawyers in the U.S. But I don't condone such dishonesty, even in small amounts. In my opinion Mr. David Gnam is dishonest here, and therefore a wrongdoer, and very likely an unrepentant wrongdoer. I don't think he should be disbarred, but he should not be used by the Watchtower Society in any way unless he is ready to be honest.

Dear Arauna, i didn't comment this aspect of WT policies about why dfd is part of JW faith. And i wouldn't.
I simply and clearly put on daylight what and how WT Lawyer doing in Court in his/their attempt to defend Image of religious "mountain-like organization", before secular authorities and before  other "sister's religious" organizations, representatives who attended court process.                
I think that your comment have to be a addressed to Mr. David Gnam !  

Watch the video Loyally Uphold Jehovah’s Judgments—Shun Unrepentant Wrongdoers, and then answer the following questions: - https://www.jw.org/en/library/jw-meeting-workbook/september-2017-mwb/meeting-schedule-sept18-24/loyal-when-relative-disfellowshipped/
 
Is strict avoidance really necessary? Yes, for several reasons. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/gods-love/disfellowshipped-person/
Synonyms for avoidance
Synonyms: cop-out, dodging, ducking, eluding, elusion, escape, eschewal, eschewing, evasion, out, shaking, shunning - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/avoidance
 
You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation.
17 Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals* was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: “Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm” the earlier judgment of the district court.
18 The court opinion continued: “Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, ... - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1988287#h=51
 
Please, dear JW defenders, Do you really need to defend WT lawyer Mr David Gnam twisting, lying on Court?

WT Lawyer Mr. David Gnam: 
 “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual. […] The nature of the relationship, then, of a disfellowshipped person is not completely shunned. The disfellowshipped person is able to come into the congregation meetings, they’re able to attend in the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they’re able to sit wherever they like, they can sing the spiritual songs with the congregation.
Well, this is full of contradiction or, as you would say, this is so "twisted". If dfd person comes to KH, sit there and sing with JW who are not dfd, how this is not "spiritual fellowship"? They siting and singing together "spiritual songs".
And now, one more "twisted reality is this". If such dfd individual and his JW brothers want to go to drink glass of beer after "siting and singing together in KH" would that be OK according to WT Lawyer, according to WT publications, according to you?? Because if they go in pub and siting and drinking beer together that is not against genuine WT Lawyer explanation -  “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual.  Because if they drink a beer or coffee together, what "spiritual component" existing in that?? Perhaps that would be "social component"? But as we all know very well "socializing with dfd or non-JW person" outside of JW "spiritual activity" (that is preaching and Bible study, meetings in KH), that would be FORBIDDEN, sinful BEHAVIOR in JW church,  according to WT publications and according JW elders interpretations.
Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”. 
Is this "twisting or lying" ?? 
 
 

WT Lawyer Mr. David Gnam: 
 “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual. […] The nature of the relationship, then, of a disfellowshipped person is not completely shunned. The disfellowshipped person is able to come into the congregation meetings, they’re able to attend in the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they’re able to sit wherever they like, they can sing the spiritual songs with the congregation.
Well, this is full of contradiction or, as you would say, this is so "twisted". If dfd person comes to KH, sit there and sing with JW who are not dfd, how this is not "spiritual fellowship"? They siting and singing together "spiritual songs".
And now, one more "twisted reality is this". If such dfd individual and his JW brothers want to go to drink glass of beer after "siting and singing together in KH" would that be OK according to WT Lawyer, according to WT publications, according to you?? Because if they go in pub and siting and drinking beer together that is not against genuine WT Lawyer explanation -  “Disfellowship” literally means “no further spiritual fellowship” with the individual.  Because if they drink a beer or coffee together, what "spiritual component" existing in that?? Perhaps that would be "social component"? But as we all know very well "socializing with dfd or non-JW person" outside of JW "spiritual activity" (that is preaching and Bible study, meetings in KH), that would be FORBIDDEN, sinful BEHAVIOR in JW church,  according to WT publications and according JW elders interpretations.
Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t use the word “shun” or “shunning”. 
Is this "twisting or lying" ?? 
 
 

Don't worry, Tom. I know my very short and very simple comment hurts, but the pain will pass.  

Who did it? Me? Where please? I thing how i didn't mention GJ in this topic. 
And please, i never twisting other people words. If i comment their quotes that is not "twisting" :))

Who did it? Me? Where please? I thing how i didn't mention GJ in this topic. 
And please, i never twisting other people words. If i comment their quotes that is not "twisting" :))

Don't worry, Tom. I know my very short and very simple comment hurts, but the pain will pass.  

Oh it all makes such fun reading. I was bored but you lot have given me a good laugh. Thank you .
Lets start here : Quote @TrueTomHarley When Fauci says people may die if they do not wear a mask, do people take it that he means to kill them himself? When the fire department says you may die if you don’t change the batteries of your smoke detector, does it mean they are going to do the deed themselves.
When John Butler said the GB may be 'removed' did John Butler then mean that HE was going to remove them himself ? No, just as TTH has written above, John Butler was not issuing a threat. It follows the same principle that TTH uses above. But John Butler was disfellowshipped from this forum, so that shows Control by the Elders that run this forum. 
Quote TTH “Those people could be manipulated,” Sanderson said. “They could be controlled. They could be made to do the most wicked things because they were afraid.”
That’s manipulation. That’s control. That’s the consequence—shall we say it?—of not being one of Jehovah’s Witnesses
No, what we can say is that all the JW Circuit Overseers, Elders and Ministerial Servants, that deliberately HID Child Sexual Abuse in the congregations were CONTROLLED by the Leaders of the CCJW. And we can say that the GB HAS CONTROL over the 20 + year Database containing information about hundreds of Paedophiles in the USA CCJW. 
Now that is manipulation. That is Control  And why ?
Quote @Anna  But some opposers will say they were held in slavery by the JW religion because of the fear of death because if they didn't do what was right they were going to die. 
BUT it wasn't a case of doing what was right. It was just doing as they were ordered. "Keep it all secret in the Org so as not  to bring God's name to shame"  What a weak excuse. 
And then we have the SHUNNING, where people lose all of their family and friends if they don't obey orders from the GB. Now that is control and manipulation.
Add to this the THREAT from the GB / Leaders of the CCJW. "If a person is not a BAPTISED  JW they will not be saved through Armageddon" 
And, the further threat from the GB, "If any of the Anointed should meet together for bible study or association that will be WORKING AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT" 
If you do not see all this as control and manipulation it is because you are being CONTROLLED AND MANIPULATED. 
TTH says "Such opposers are just upset that faith has power—
You have it backwards Tom. It is the GB and the other leaders of the CCJW that are upset, because FAITH has power. The Faith of those that serve God through Christ, not through the GB.  That is why the GB tell the true Anointed not to gather together, because the GB are afraid. Remember Matthew 18 v 20 that where two or more gather in Christ's name, He will be there with them. How your GB are frightened of that happening. 
Tom, if you need to kid yourself that people that leave the CCJW forget about God and Christ, then it is just showing your insecurity. You show that you are worried that the true Anointed remnant may be getting the Holy Spirit that your Org is lacking.