BillyTheKid46

I think, maybe once, when speaking to John about it.  

Seems to me, Butler has me confused with “witness” that pretends to be anointed.   
Seems to me Kid has no idea what he is on about. Who could confuse that kid with anyone else. The Kid is a one of a kind loony. 
“you can’t fix stupid”. Well you should know Kid, you have to live with yourself being like that all the time. 
In the Greek Scriptures it is basically Anointed men speaking to Anointed men and women when it comes to instruction and direction.  Those of that era / time were of the heavenly calling. 
Jesus said  “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
other sheep, those too I must bring, they will listen to my voice
The earthly class are the 'Other sheep', that Jesus 'must bring', and Jesus was talking in future tense, 'They will listen to my voice'. 
And Jesus says these other sheep (the earthly class) are not of this fold, meaning not of the heavenly calling. 
Seems easy enough to me, but then I'm not blinded by the Devil / GB / JW org. 

Quote "as though it really matters to God". BtK as if your opinion really matters to us. 
You are a pretend JW that has no idea of God's word and no idea of truth. 
Quote "Witness, seems to think only the anointed are the Body of Christ"...  And I agree with him. The Anointed are both the Body and the Bride of Christ. Those 144,000 that go to heaven to be there with Christ. The Body of Christ will be complete in Heaven with Jesus Christ himself. 
Why do you puff yourself up by thinking you are part of that Body ? 
Jesus spoke of the earthly class as 'other sheep that are not of this fold'.
I presume your body is only in one place ?  Would you divide your body and put it in different places ?  Although at this time the Body of Christ is not all in heaven, it will be when God chooses to bring the Judgement. 
I don't think you are impressing anyone on here BtK. You are just trying to bully people and make yourself look important. The real BtK is dead physically, you BtK are dead spiritually. 
 
 

You absolutely don't make sense.  I gave you the link from the JW website that shows what Watchtower has taught about the Body of Christ - that it is comprised of the anointed ones.  Today, in word, (maybe in print also) they teach differently than what they have written in their publications in the past.  They speak out of both sides of their mouth and you are choosing their most recent LIE.  Why would I chose to follow the GB's twisted path?  Why do YOU?  Their teachings are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  They are no different than the Pharisees - a brood of vipers.  Matt 12:34  If you could only see how confused you are by following these men.  

I know, but it's still related. Do you expect it to be a group LIKE the GB in the sense of a group of leaders of a certain religion, or leaders who promote a certain set of specific doctrines, but whom you accept because they also give evidence you can accept of being "anointed." I think you imply that the GB claim to be inspired (although they would never use those exact words). Would you expect the person(s) who fit the actual "Jew" of Zechariah to claim to be inspired?

Not at all. Everything I said was a FULL truth about what the WT taught, or a FULL truth about what others think, or a FULL truth about my own opinion. No half-truths.
Yes. The Body of Christ is the "Church" and there is a sense in which everyone in the "Church" is part of Jesus' body, so I would never disagree with this or claim that they could not.
The "great crowd" mentioned in Revelation chapters 7 and 19, and who are also referenced again in chapters 21 and 22. Scripturally, they appear to be part of the heavenly kingdom, the New Jerusalem, because they are spiritual Israelites, too.
True. But you don't give any context to why you mentioned this. The closest we came to discussing servants is the mention that the 'great crowd' render sacred service in the inner sanctuary of the temple. (Elsewhere the Watchtower associates the inner sanctuary, naos, with heaven itself.) But in the context of this particular great crowd we actually do not have the mention of 'bond servant.' We do know that elsewhere, the anointed Christians are referred to in some contexts as "bond servants." Even the person we identify as an angel in Revelation 19:10 is also a "doulos" or "bond servant" (and he tells John not to worship him). All Christians should humbly be able to see themselves as "good for nothing slaves" in comparison to the glory of God's kingdom. Christians should recognize themselves as "bond servants" and yet the promise is that Jesus would make the first last and the last first, and therefore can crown these servants as kings in glory, as he sees fit.
I agree that this makes sense, and it is a part of what I presented earlier.
It looks like you are giving an example of how I might have added some confusion here, but the problem is that you left off the introductory part of the same paragraph. If it can make it simpler, I'll just highlight some main points here:
[In my opinion, for what it's worth]
During his earthly ministry, Jesus and his disciples were sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. In John 10:16 Jesus refers to "other sheep" outside of that fold (Israel) which he would later bring into the same flock. These would therefore be persons of the nations, the gentiles, who would also share in the same promises of anointing and son. (It shouldn't be surprising that Jesus would make such a momentous announcement to his disciples as this becomes a major theme of the scriptures after Jesus is resurrected.) Paul makes a similar point about how the two folds become one in Ephesians 2:14 ("For he is our peace, the one who made the two groups one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off.") And Paul explains that until recently the nations had been fenced off from the nation of Israel, but now the two groups are one. Since this was such an important event in the history of Christianity, it appears in Revelation 7 symbolically as a "great crowd" of persons who serve in heaven with the same white robes associated with the Bride of Christ. In comparison with the limited number of Israelites who had come in, the great crowd of persons who come out of every nation are innumerable. So, as I said, the other sheep and the great crowd appear to refer to the same group of anointed persons from all nations who join their Israelite brothers in New Jerusalem, a spiritual Mt Zion, made up of both Jews and Greeks (gentiles):
(Galatians 3:26-29) . . .You are all, in fact, sons of God through your faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring, heirs with reference to a promise.
Interestingly, according to the NWT, the New Jerusalem in Revelation is said to be nearly TWO MILLION square miles, and the entire structure is TWO AND A  HALF BILLION cubic miles. That's a city about the size of entire area from New York to North Dakota to Texas to Florida, the whole portion of the United States east of the Rockies. Larger than the entire Roman Empire at its maximum.
But that doesn't matter of course. What might matter is that there is nowhere in the Bible where it limits the number of those who would be anointed or who would serve as heavenly kings and priests to only 144,000. Apparently, although it could be a literal number referring to the full number of Jewish Christians who came in as "first-fruits" it could also be a number that symbolizes these Israelites in the way that the 12,000 from each tribe is clearly just a symbolic number in Revelation 7. Note how Paul refers to the number of Israelites compared to the number from the nations who come into spiritual Israel:
(Romans 11:11-26) . . .Certainly not! But by [Israel's] false step, there is salvation to people of the nations, to incite them to jealousy. 12 Now if their false step means riches to the world and their decrease means riches to people of the nations, how much more will their [Israel's] full number mean! 13 Now I speak to you who are people of the nations. Seeing that I am an apostle to the nations, I glorify my ministry 14 to see if I may in some way incite my own people to jealousy and save some from among them. . . . 16 Further, if the part of the dough taken as firstfruits is holy, the entire batch is also holy; and if the root is holy, the branches are also. . . . remember that it is not you who bears the root, but the root bears you. 19 You will say, then: “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true! For their lack of faith, they were broken off, but you are standing by faith. Do not be haughty, but be in fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. . . .  23 And they also, if they do not remain in their lack of faith, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them back in. .24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree that is wild by nature and were grafted contrary to nature into the garden olive tree, how much more will these who are natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree! For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret, brothers, so that you do not become wise in your own eyes: A partial dulling of senses has come upon Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, 26 and in this manner all Israel will be saved.. . . It is not possible to make this refer to spiritual Israel, because it speaks of Israel's lack of faith being a factor. It speaks of the "natural branches" of Israel. Surely we can't claim that the nations were added in only because "spiritual Israel" lost faith!
Basically, there was a "witness" to Israel, and a "witness" to the nations (gentiles). And this is represented by the natural olive tree and the wild olive tree, all grafted into one tree representing "spiritual" Israel. We have another mention of the two olive trees and two witnesses in Revelation 11:
(Revelation 11:3, 4) . . .I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.” These are symbolized by the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth. (Galatians 2:7-8) . . .they saw that I had been entrusted with the good news for those who are uncircumcised, just as Peter had been for those who are circumcised— 8 for the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations. . .
Even the two lampstands can be tied back to Paul's and Jesus' illustrations about the Jews and the Gentiles.
(Luke 2:30-32) . . .because my eyes have seen your means of salvation that you have prepared in the sight of all the peoples, a light for removing the veil from the nations and a glory of your people Israel.” (Mt 5:14-16) “You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when situated upon a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under the measuring basket, but upon the lampstand, and it shines upon all those in the house. Likewise let your light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens.” (Acts 13:46, 47) . . .Then Paul and Barʹna·bas boldly said to them: “It was necessary for the word of God to be spoken first to you [Israel]. Since you are rejecting it and do not judge yourselves worthy of everlasting life, look! we turn to the nations. 47 For Jehovah has commanded us in these words: ‘I have appointed you as a light of nations, for you to be a salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
And, of course, in the temple sanctuary, only pure olive oil could be used to light the physical lamps.

Don't wait for "the situation to be right", TTH, take control!
You could skulk around college gymnasiums, and find the loners and nerd types, even better if they are nerdy loners ...  and offer them beer if they will study the Bible with you,  and try to form relationships. I understand that college kids like beer.
If a college is too far away,  perhaps you can start earlier at Elementary Schools.
Offer them candy. I understand kids LOVE candy.
In the current social environment, what could go wrong?

If you want to save hard drive space, consider doing all your typing in lower case letters, and saw off the end of your computer table, so the mouse won't have so long to travel.

So did you deliberately misquote me ?  If you did it doesn't matter. 
I suppose I expect the Anointed to be leaders as that scripture says that the earthly class 'will go with them'. 
And yes I expect the Anointed to be the ones that form the true way of serving God for all of those here on Earth that truly want to serve God properly. I don't like the word 'religion' as it is used as a 'pigeon hole' or a tag. 
Why do you think I imply that the GB claim to be inspired, when I know they put in writing that they are not inspired. 
It is because they are not inspired that they cannot be the true Anointed Faithful slave. This is proven by their actions and writings, rules and denials, misuse of scripture, misinterpretation of scripture, ad infinitum ..... 
I would expect that the true Anointed would clearly be seen to be such, by their actions, words, encouragement, love, honesty, respect, understanding of others, willingness to help others, again, ad infinitum... 
In the 1960's I was a Mod. Now there is a stupidity in that film Quadrophenia that shows Mods shouting 'We are the Mods We are the Mods', but in truth in my hometown we did not go around telling people that we were Mods. We didn't need to, people could see by our 'way of life'  that we were Mods.
This is how I think the True Anointed would be, clearly seen to be such, and in many countries, so that people could approach them to 'follow them'. Like I've said communication Earthwide is so simple now. Well you are reading this and you are on the other side of the Earth, so point proven.
Must go,  parcels to post, busy life  

One size fits all is not necessarily a good approach either, as everyone is at a different stage of knowledge, readiness, etc.
Back when I was so sure we were right about everything in every detail I felt comfortable working college/university housing territory with an improvised presentation that went something like this, depending on the student's style of speaking:
. . . A lot of people of religious faiths might come up to you claim that they aren't here to convert you. But listen, I'll admit that we are; and it's because we are sure we are right, and we're sure it's important. I know that's easy to say, but it's why we'd like to prove it. So we offer free home Bible studies at your convenience to fit your own schedule. This way, in case you don't believe us, you can ask us anything you want and we'll get an answer to all your Bible questions.
It was a bit heady and haughty, but I could literally start more "Bible Studies" than I knew what to do with. I was giving away "Bible Studies" to other pioneers, and a day of 4 or 5 Bible Studies was easier than cart witnessing is today. One month I had 20 Bible Studies (and even got counseled over it by our Circuit Overseer because my magazine placements were down). A few of these students became Witnesses, and two of them even came to NYC to visit me at Bethel and in my NYC congregation.

Not to divert from you thread, though (as I sometimes do) Continue
TTH, you just did, totally off topic  
But why not just use the BIBLE, isn't it the Bible that is supposed to inspire people. 
By using a 'brochure' you are just doing what i said JW's do, acting as a parrot for the GB.
Hebrews 4:12 New International Version (NIV)
"12For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."
Now that is where the truth is, in God's word, not in any brochure made up by earthling man. 

@JW Insider  Quote "wondering why John seems so sure that this verse cannot refer to any group like the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses."
I actually said it could not BE the GB of the JW Org. I don't remember saying it could not be any group like ... 
There is a big difference. The message from Christ is now Earthwide. The GB are basically 8 white American men. 
The Anointed must also be Earthwide. In my humble opinion it would seem more sensible for Christ to use men of different race, colour, background. And in this day and age of Earthwide internet would they all actually need to be based in one building. (I do believe someone on here has called that building a false temple but i would not go that far.) 
I also thing there is tooooo much emphasis on the actions of the 12 ( or 13)  Apostles of Christ in the 1st century. They were in one place and much of their work was spoken words so not everything would have been recorded. I think it is too easy for people of the earthly class to misunderstand scripture. 
But coming back to the GB of the JW Org / Wt.  By their works you will know them, i think that says it all. 
However I do not say that a group of Anointed men could not do the job. I say that i my opinion the GB are not anointed and not capable of doing the job properly. 

@BillyTheKid46   Firstly you couldn't be bothered to say which scripture you were quoting from but it is obviously Ephesians 4.
So your version of v 12, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 
NWT  version of v12  with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ,
So this is talking about the 144,000 of the heavenly class. 
Also when people start to understand that the Greek scriptures WERE written for the Anointed and not for the earthly class then people might just get a better understanding of all scripture.  Yes we can read scripture and get a very very basic idea of what it means, or we think we do. BUT Jesus will only reveal the true full meanings to those he chooses and they will be the ones of the Anointed. 
I thought the Matthew 25 scripture is good about Jesus sorting the sheep from the goats and Jesus says to the sheep (those of the earthly class that have been recognised as doing good) Matt 25 v40
In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’ 
Now Billy thinks we are all Christ's brothers, but this scripture shows that 'the King' Christ Jesus is talking to the earthly class about the heavenly class, because Jesus says 'of these my brothers', whereas is everyone was of the Body of Christ, it would be 'of these our brothers'.
Funny though i always thought that the Org made it clear that all the earthly class was doing was 'assisting the heavenly class' in the work that was actually given to the heavenly class. That would go along with Jesus' words above. 
 

I simply quoted the Watchtower where it stated the following:
*** ws16 January p. 21 par. 4 “We Want to Go With You” ***
This means that the Jew is not just one person but represents the whole group of anointed ones.
I never used the term "remnant" although I did reference the "anointed." I believe you already understand the reason for the somewhat different uses of these terms in our publications.
Thanks for saying you want to get it right. This is not just about my opinion, though. I am happy to express my own opinion,  even if my own opinion differs somewhat from the Watchtower's explanation. But this was also a case of wondering why John seems so sure that this verse cannot refer to any group like the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. It's almost as if he is sure that somewhere there is a truly anointed person, or group of such persons, who it should be obvious that we should be following. Perhaps they don't exist yet, in John's opinion, or they do and they are just difficult to find among all the "noise." 
We can get to all of this, but I had a few other follow up questions for John, for which I had hoped to get his range of opinion first on what the verse could mean. I wondered just how different John's expectation (for others) would be from the Watchtower's explanation. For example, isn't it possible that John might see it possible that there are several different religious groups each focusing on a different kind of ministry. Some might be doing great work in helping people understand certain important doctrines, but make mistakes in other areas. Perhaps there is a very good religious-based ministry that does an excellent job pushing for legislative reform, religious institutional procedural changes, and general social reform in CSA matters. Would he expect that group to also teach the correct view of Trinity, Hell, Neutrality, etc.? I'm wondering just how "perfect" he would expect any human religious organization to be if it were to specialize, say, in pushing sound Bible doctrinal reform. John has actually said enough already so that I realize I don't need to ask him all the questions I had wanted.
My own opinions here are somewhat separate. Although on the matter of Zechariah 8, I think that chapter really does provide an excellent and important image for us to remember about our own attempts to make converts to true Christianity. Jesus gave the illustration that just like a tree is known for its fruits, we would also attract persons who want to join our particular Christian brotherhood. Also, we know that 'by this people will recognize if we are truly Christ's disciples, if we have love among ourselves.' It reminds us that converts aren't just made from a door to door ministry. Just as an example, the Seventh Day Adventists started out similarly in time to when the Watchtower organization started out, yet they have no specific door*to*door focus, and have grown to nearly 20 million adherents. JTR has mentioned something similar when he says that if we are really doing something right, and are blessed by Jehovah for it, we might expect people to knocking on our door instead of the other way around. (This is not an argument that the SDA's are doing it right and we are doing it wrong.)
On these additional issues about my personal views and opinions about other sheep, great crowd, remnant, body of Christ, anointed, etc., I have already begun answering, and I'm sure you will find plenty to oppose.

So was World War II, but it's important to know about such things, as I see that you recognize the "dueling banjo" reference. That means Ah saw the movie, and presumably you ALSO saw the movie, "Deliverance".
I am surprised that Hollywood's ratings get such respect.
Of course, there are people who never get over the fact they were born in bed with a naked woman ....
(no cartoons for THIS one ...)

You must be talking about the GB as the “faithful slave” sent by God.  Can you actually prove to me that God has given these men to us to follow?
Did Jesus ever lie?  If he sent anyone in his name, and told them to “remain” in him because without him they could nothing, would they lie or would they speak the Word of God, which is truth - always?    He is the way, the truth, the life.  Would those he sends teach any sort of doctrine that failed or had to be totally discarded with a new one?  How many times has doctrine flipped from one belief to another, and many times a new belief is actually one from years past, in the step of doctrinal change?  John 15:4,5; John 14:6
To say that the leaders of the WT are led by Holy Spirit calls Jesus a liar; subsequently, it calls the Almighty God, a liar.  The only one who can take a lie and soften its blow with the insulation of false promises, by calling it a “belief clarified”, is Satan, who “inspires” those who seek out his earthly gifts. 2 Cor 11:13,14
Anyone can see these things if they choose to.  It depends on one's heart’s desire to find those who speak pure truth from Christ.  Within the organization are hundreds of anointed ones who are silenced.  That should ring a bell with all JWs, that something is amiss in the Watchtower.    If one of those anointed speaks up about teachings that conflict with WT doctrine, and is heard, I guarantee they will not survive inside its walls.  That is the sign of a wicked slave in power.  Matt 24:48-51
Jesus spoke up for truth against the power and teaching of the Pharisees.  Shouldn't every one of us speak up for truth, regardless of who has placed authority over us?  
"Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life (through disfellowshipping) for me and for the gospel will save it.36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”  Mark 8:34-38
I am not ashamed to speak up for Christ and truth.  I, and so many others, have done so.  As scripture points out, your wicked slave cannot tolerate being called a liar.  Rev 13:11,14-17
It is a ruse, set against the anointed under the "woman" New Covenant, during these last days.  I wish all of you could see this.  Rev 12:15; 2 Thess 2:9-12;1 Thess 5:3   
Matt 13:36-43
 
 

At Jesus' baptism God's Holy Spirit came from heaven and settled on him, so I would have thought that he was anointed then. 
Matthew 3 v 16
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

Believers will accept the claim that the writers and books (later collected in the Bible) were inspired by God.

The question is: Are people who collected the old records of these letters and books, were inspired for this work of gathering/collecting ?? Did they need to be inspire for this collecting?? 
Next question is: People said that Roman Catholic Pope was made decision what will be gathered and put in one book, the Bible. Did he been inspired by god while did it? 
Third question is: Did they found all letters and writings? What is with other writings that pope did not want to put in Bible? Are those writings uninspired?
Fourth question is? Do JW feel how "new scriptures, new instructions" they expect to receive, is in future, after Armageddon? Or  it would be possible for such records to appear at this time? If this will be in future, do they feel how such new writings will be made by inspired individuals or group? And how will/would this individuals or group to prove that they are inspired? (According to GB self claim, they are not inspired. So, by this, we can conclude how such new writings and instructions are not possible to have today. And because, supposedly,  they will go to heaven before Armageddon, in the New World some other people, Not Them as Anointed Channel, will make/write new instructions. But that is OK, because error and uninspired instructions can be written by other people, too, not only by GB). 
 

On whether an anointed one is inspired, I just though I'd comment.  All anointed ones are inspired by God’s Spirit.  It is how they are “called” when anointed.  Eph 2:20; 4:4,7,8,11,12; 2;6; 4;8     They could not be the “dwelling” of His Spirit without such inspiration. 1 Cor 3:9,16  Whether they facilitate that gift by obeying the Spirit’s direction, is up to them.  Isa 64:8; Matt 25:1; 1 John 2:20,27; 1 Cor 10:12; Rev 2:5
Anointed ones can lose God’s Spirit and acquire the spirit of Satan by falling out of their promise with God, and entering a pact made with the Liar.  From them, come “demonic expressions”; exhalations of spirit from Satan. Isa 28:15,7,8   So, anointed are either inspired by the Spirit of truth from God and Christ, or by the spirit of lies from Satan.  It isn’t obvious by the way they look or what they accomplish in this physical realm, but by what they teach.  Matt 7:20  For the GB to say they are not "inspired" by God's Spirit, is in actuality, in my opinion,  a true statement.
Inspired by God’s Spirit:
Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. (“congregations”)   You will be brought before governors (GB) and kings (elders) for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; 20 for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.  Matt 10:16-20 
Inspired by Satan’s Spirit
1 Tim 4:1,2 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron 
2 Pet 2:1-3 - But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. 
Rev 13:11 - Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.
Rev 16:13,14 - And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth (Rev 1:5; 5:10) and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
The conflict between both:
Eph 6:10-13 Finally, become strong in the Lord and in the might of his strength.  Put on the full armor of God, so that you may be able to stand against the stratagems of the devil,  because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.  Because of this, take up the full armor of God, in order that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand.
Satan attacks us "in the evil day" of Armageddon (Rev 20:7-9)  through inspiring those who buy into his lying offers of authority and power, which is enacted over the "kings of the earth", (those under the New Covenant Gal 4:22-24,26) and all those with them.  Luke 4:7; Rev 13:5-7; Rev 12:15
 
 
 
 
 

I'm not sure why you think it's such a big deal to repeatedly say there is no academic understanding here. You began repeating that idea (under other names, I think) when someone implied that it would be OK to make longer quotes from other sources for education purposes, based on common practice for commentaries on other person's writings  under 'fair use' law.
But that's not what this is about. It's been a common practice of yours to sometimes just dump a bunch of commentary from various places, but without any comment of your own as to whether you think it even applies to your own view or someone else's view. Often it is contradictory to the Watchtower's view (as it was this time), which is why I think you either hadn't even read it, or at least why you didn't comment on any of it yourself. It seemed pretty academic, but you didn't give a source for any other readers here, who might not have been able to tell whether it came from a Watchtower source or a Christendom source or some other academic source. And for someone who is bent on repeating there is no academic understanding here, it makes no sense that you had just done this earlier in this same thread with the words:
Of course, you didn't give any reference or attribution to that either, and you were addressing someone else, not me. And by the way, I didn't just automatically know where the references came from; I had to look it up.
I didn't sidestep the questions, I only indicated to you why the questions, as stated, didn't mean much of anything. As a reminder, here were the questions I "sidestepped":
In between those two questions, you merely copied information from "Christendom's" commentaries without any context. Those don't even sound like legitimate questions to me. They sound like questions from someone trying to imitate post-modern pretentiousness and who thinks vagueness sounds impressive.
Wow! And did anyone mention your propensity for projection?
Your resources did not agree with the Watchtower's view. You yourself have seemed to question the Watchtower's stated view on who makes up the Body of Christ, or else you just wanted to be disagreeable. Your own questions and statements often sound something like this:
BTK: Why do you say that only the anointed are in the Body of Christ? That's untenable and seals your fate as an apostate! Response: But the Watchtower says that only the anointed are in the Body of Christ and I believe this is correct. BTK Then why do you say the anointed are not in the Body of Christ? That's untenable and seals your fate as an apostate! I don't see how I have failed to see that I copy/paste from Watchtower literature. I actually show the reference each time to show exactly where I copy/pasted from, and to make it clear that I am posting from Watchtower literature. See the difference?

Thanks for explaining. This was the impression I got from you, and it was reinforced with this other idea that you conveyed: that since the scriptures were only written to and for the anointed, we must take a kind of 'sit-and-wait' attitude until it becomes obvious who they are. You also have said that you think the end will not take place before the end of your own lifetime, an idea probably also partly based on the fact that no group of anointed has yet become so obvious in our day that '10 men are taking hold of them' because they can see that God is with them.
One reason I responded with an entire thread on this was because this overall idea seemed too passive. It really would lead to the idea that unless some group of truly anointed were making it extremely obvious that they were right in some inspired kind of way, then all of us can just sort of wait until that changes. But Jesus seemed to say that preaching and converting others through making disciples of him was going to be the way in which this message about God and his Kingdom through Christ would reach to the ends of the earth. To me that seems quite different.
Also, just my opinion, but I don't think we need anything except to keep our eyes open and see the works of various Christian brotherhoods to know whether or not Jehovah's spirit is acting upon them. By their works you will recognize them. It's not that works result in our salvation, but that the "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, etc., etc." If our hearts desire Christian association with loving, peaceful, patient persons, we would find such ones to associate with. The nuances of doctrine (like "who is the Jew with the 10 men at his robes?") is completely unimportant. But a doctrine of peace that results in them not going to war with each other would seem quite important. Personally, I would not wait for a group that explains Scripture better than the next group. That has always just been a "sub-religion" much like the philosophies of the Greeks that they thought was real wisdom.
Scripture is already there for us. We don't have to understand it any further than what was already put there. In our hearts we know enough about Jesus parables just by reading the overall message. We have no further need of prophets, and voices, and tongues, and inspiration, because Jehovah has already put the basic message in our hearts from what inspiration has already written. This is one of the reasons that the book of Revelation was almost voted out of the 66 book canon. It was written in such a way that it took away from the idea that we need nothing further to be written to us (by future interpreters). Yet even this book exercises the depth of our Christian faith if we remember that it should not distract from the idea that the end could come at any time, and that we are not waiting for specific events to happen, but that it can happen at any time. 
On that topic, remember that Jesus said the end could happen at any time, and it would be a surprise, as if without warning of any kind. Of course, he also made it clear that it could happen at any time immediately after the Roman armies sacked Jerusalem, which basically happened in 70 CE. Your own view makes it easy to put this off, by waiting for an additional sign. Paul did mention an additional sign prior to 70 when he said that we weren't waiting for a group of semi-inspired anointed to watch for, but that there would be a semi-inspired powerful force that would have to come first. This kept the Thessalonians from getting too excited about the end coming when 70 CE had not even come yet.
He told them that we needed nothing to be written to us about the times and seasons of the parousia because it would come as a surprise, like a thief in the night, even though we are "awake" enough so that it will not overcome us as victims the way a thief overcomes his victim. He reminded the Thessalonians that people could be taking note of peace and security, and therefore it would be a complete surprise. But he also told them to prepare for the possibility that they would sleep in death before Jesus returned. But that semi-inspired or pseudo-inspired powerful force to watch for apparently turned out to be the many anti-Christs that John spoke of in his letters. Paul had put it in "apocalyptic terms" and I think the book of Revelation even more so:
I'll end on this because it's long, but I think it's curious that Paul's only warning sign prior to the parousia was about a man of lawlessness (the apostasy already at work) and a counteracting force of restraint that was almost out of the way. (This was apparently the apostles, but some could argue that it extends to our day as the apostleship continues to be represented by men governing the congregation.)
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) . . .However, brothers, concerning the presence [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deluding influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness. John, possibly the original apostle by that name, apparently outlived the year 70 CE, and he still says something similar, but his solution is that all of them were anointed and all of them therefore have no need of someone or some group to continue teaching them, because the anointing itself teaches all of them the truth.
(1 John 2:18-27) 18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort. 20 And you have an anointing from the holy one, and all of you have knowledge. 21 I write you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie originates with the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. But whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, what you have heard from the beginning must remain in you. If what you have heard from the beginning remains in you, you will also remain in union with the Son and in union with the Father. 25 Furthermore, this is what he himself promised us—the life everlasting. 26 I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you. 27 And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but the anointing from him is teaching you about all things and is true and is no lie.. . .

@JW Insider  i had told myself i would not spend time on here today as I have much work that needs doing BUT :-
Quote " but you have made previous comments that make me think that you believed a TRUE "faithful and discreet slave" should "in effect" be inspired in some way "
Yes indeed. I think much of the Bible is written in a sort of 'code'. Yes we can read the words but we can have different interpretations of those words. Indeed the GB of JW Org change the meanings of some scriptures as I've said before. It gets boring to mention the 'Superior Authorities' & ' This Generation'  but it proves a point. 
The Bible books were written under inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The Bible was compiled under the same inspiration. 
The scripture which actually says 'All scripture is inspired of God .... ' is rather strange for two reasons. 1. not all scripture had been written at the time, and 2. certainly the 'bible had not been compiled. My feeling about that scripture is that it referred to the Hebrew writings, which the early Christians already had.  Otherwise it would have to have been prophecy about the writing of the other books and the complete 66 books being gathered together as one. 
Now we know that in times of war countries use code words etc. And we know that we live in a time of spiritual warfare. So it is my humble opinion that only Inspired Anointed would have the key to the code of the deeper things of God's word.
Remember, after Jesus was resurrected and he was walking along with, two disciples i think, (my mind goes) then Jesus fully opened up the scriptures to them. 
Well in my opinion Jesus will only open up the scriptures to the true Anointed, and that opening up will be by the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit. The very same inspiration by Holy Spirit that was given to write those 66 books.  
Will there be Anointed that are inspired and also Anointed that are not inspired ?  I do not know. But it must be Inspired Anointed that lead God's true organisation, otherwise it will end up like JW org. :) 
Enough I must work now.  I have much more to convey, but not yet, not yet.............. (yes it's a film quote) 

I definitely agree with that. No matter how sure I might sound, I am just giving an opinion on what I believe a Scripture might mean. Even if I don't have any doubts about it, it doesn't make it true.
And that too. BTW, it's this tendency to conflate "inspired" and "anointed" that made me think you might have thought that the GB ought to be "inspired" in some way even though they have clearly said that they are not. I know you have never said it that way, but you have made previous comments that make me think that you believed a TRUE "faithful and discreet slave" should "in effect" be inspired in some way. You have said things like the following:
I probably read too much into it.
I personally do not think of the Governing Body as "THE faithful and discreet slave." I don't think anyone, or any particular identifiable group is "THAT slave." It was merely an illustration that showed how some Christians might be like that good slave, and some might be like this other bad slave. In fact, Jesus gave many more examples of how the slave might be bad than might be good. I think that Jesus gave the illustration, not to create a hierarchical group that might try to "lord it over" their fellow Christians, or try to be "governors of their souls" or "guardians of doctrine." I think Jesus knew that most Christians, imperfect as we are, would strive to do good and probably fall short many times. Jesus is already identified as the "One Governor" of our faith, and he told us not to follow those who want to be called Leader, Father or Teacher. We can find many different teachers under many different circumstances in our Christian experience, and we can try to be one of those many teachers to others, when called upon.
I think Paul dealt with people who looked to men (like Paul, Apollos, and Cephas) to be their Governing Body, or other superfine apostles. But Paul spoke out against the idea in several ways, even though Paul himself really was a "guardian of doctrine." Here are some excerpts from the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 4, where we actually find some  comments about supposed "faithful" and "discreet" "stewards" and the idea of "lording it over others" which is exactly what Jesus' illustration warned against:
(1 Corinthians 4:1-21) . . . A man should regard us as attendants of Christ and stewards of God’s sacred secrets. 2 In this regard, what is expected of stewards is that they be found faithful. 3 Now to me it is of very little importance to be examined by you or by a human tribunal.. . . the one who examines me is Jehovah. 5 Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God. 6 Now, brothers, these things I have applied to myself and A·polʹlos for your good, that through us you may learn the rule: “Do not go beyond the things that are written,” so that you may not be puffed up with pride, favoring one against the other. 7 For who makes you different from another? Indeed, what do you have that you did not receive? If, in fact, you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it? 8 Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings. 9 For it seems to me that God has put us the apostles last on exhibition as men condemned to death, because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels and to men. 10 We are fools because of Christ, but you are discreet in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are held in honor, but we in dishonor. . . . 14 I am writing these things, not to put you to shame, but to admonish you as my beloved children. 15 For though you may have 10,000 guardians in Christ, you certainly do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, I have become your father through the good news. 16 I urge you, therefore, become imitators of me. 17 That is why I am sending Timothy to you, because he is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord. He will remind you of my methods in connection with Christ Jesus, just as I am teaching everywhere in every congregation. 18 Some are puffed up with pride, as though I were not coming to you. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if Jehovah wills, and I will get to know, not the speech of those who are puffed up with pride, but their power. 20 For the Kingdom of God is a matter not of speech but of power. 21 Which do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a rod or with love and mildness of spirit?
To me this sounds like a commentary on the parable itself. It contains the idea that some would want to beat their fellow servants. They would want to take matters into their own hands before the Lord comes in his due time. Some would be puffed up and wish to begin ruling as kings (governors). These human tribunals (governing bodies) are considered unimportant to Paul. They are trying to judge matters before their time. They are drunk with power, puffed up with pride. Not even the apostles look for "honor" or present themselves as "discreet" and yet these persons want to present themselves as discreet (wise). So Paul sends people to them (like Apollos and Timothy) who are NOT at all like that, people such as Timothy who follow the mild and loving methods of Paul, who will treat them like a father admonishes beloved children. And as far as "guardians" Paul says that they may have "10,000 guardians" not just 8 or so. 10,000 was on the order of the actual number of Christians in the Roman Empire at that time, according to Acts.
Now most Witnesses probably think about the GB as exactly the kind of loving admonishers that Paul and Timothy and Apollos must have been. So this should not be taken as an indictment of the idea of a Governing Body. But I understand some of the problems you have with the Governing Body and their claims.

Well at the end of it all none of us really know. It is my humble opinion that no one on here is an Inspired Anointed person, so we all 'understand' scripture differently. 
I for one would not claim to be Anointed or Inspired. Hence i often say I do not know the answers.
However, it is clear for anyone to see that the GB as they are now, and how they and the Society have been in the past, cannot have God's approval. Why would God guide dishonest, self serving men ? 
Some on here think the GB / Society  have 'made mistakes' in the past, but it looks quite clearly that they deliberately sinned, and continue to do so.
Some may say that if i don't know the way then how do I know what is not right. Well even if I was lost in the countryside I would know it wouldn't be clever to jump over the edge of a cliff. 
BtK likes to think that his version of scripture is always right and that most of us here have no idea, but in reality it just shown that he is exalting himself above the rest of us. Luke 14 v11 deals with that. 
So I suppose we will all continue to write comments based on our own feelings and thoughts, or for the JW's more likely based on the thoughts and words of the GB and writing dept.  
 

Yikes.
Yikes, again.
This is pretty much correct as I remember it, too. It was JTR who made fun of you (while you were using a different name). It was about "meds" at least once, and he also made fun of you on another occasion in a similar vein. You called him out on it at the time, so I didn't see a need to. You actually called him out on it a second time a few months later and JTR denied that he had ever said what he actually had said. But again, you were already calling him out on it.
I called out John on his "drunk" reference, just as a reminder that these things sometimes escalate and someone ends up getting disciplined and then there are hurt feelings for a long time to come. And what's worse is that sometimes the escalations can get out of hand and people leave or get locked out of the forum. I hate to see such things.
But as I think about it, I was wrong to mention anything to John. It wasn't my place. And perhaps it was even a bit sexist of me to step in for Anna as if she couldn't respond for herself. As you say, it's not like I try to step in for every little thing. Even when you say things I don't like about me personally, I let about 90 percent of them go without mentioning anything. (In fact, when I tried to respond to about 30 percent of your claims in a recent thread, it was John who stepped in to censure both of us for unchristianlike fighting.)
So, @JOHN BUTLER I would like to apologize for involving myself in an argument that was not for me, in the first place. I have my own prejudices like everyone else, perhaps more than you. Some person's comments I hardly ever even read. So I could never be a fair moderator anyway.