BillyTheKid46

And here I thought it was other types of sinning you desired . . .
https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/79686-a-circuit-overseer-states-your-faith-is-garbage-and-needs-to-be-torn-down/page/2/#comments

Just thought. To see something, about something, connected to this "Jew group" (in spiritual or literal way) we need, i suppose, opening/overture of observer mind (observer who know what he is searching, looking for, or we can talk also perhaps about some ignorant person, who is, because of divine power will, in position to see important thing, despite his position) by divine power.
Divine power, i guess, is holy spirit, who make it possible that some person can see something. In such situation  we can talk about "inspiration from above", and a harmonized action and interaction of "two earthly elements - observer and Jew", under influence of/from Heaven. 
Here we can see some literal, physical products/fruits of, as Bible explains, holy spirit. Does observer of this fruits need to be inspired (in other words, does god need to open his eyes) to be able to see fruits? Or, natural state of mind and heart is precondition to recognize (or to not recognize) the Jew who produce such fruits as prove that he is this sort of Jew?
 
Do they (JW members or other believers) consider themselves as "fishes" who are already chosen as good fishes, because they found and hold of true Jew hem? Or this separation, made by angels, is applied for all fishes, because net is one, and it was throwing, had thrown, will be throwing on all? 

This is the stereotypical Snowflake reaction of someone for whom CONTROL is more important that Truth and relating experiences, wherever the conversation might lead.
It hurts Snowflakes feelings when no one will pay attention to the agenda.
That's how computers work, but human minds, in love with freedom,  wander afield. 
That's why we make them, and they do not make us.

Quote @JW Insider " His abuse of others. In fact it was an over-the-top eulogy of how great he was with kids and how he was always interested in their spiritual welfare that seemed to trigger a muffled outburst during the talk, and just after the talk there was an argument by others in the family about always keeping quiet about shameful things. It finally spilled over to others outside the immediate family. And this brother's own granddaughter had no idea about it until the funeral. It was a mess! "
CSA, hidden in the JW Org, at it's best then. And even you didn't know or most of the congregation so it seems. Doesn't this actually prove my point on this matter (TTH, no it never happens :) ) 
Quote " As a parent, I admit that I've tended to exaggerate the moral problems of the world myself, and I've learned that this fear-mongering doesn't work at all with high-school kids " 
Thank you for your honesty. But multiply that by 8 million JW's and it gets a bit serious. (TTH, it never happens) 
Quote " choosing bridesmaids. "  Um sorry to do this but JW's being no part of the world and not doing anything that relates to spiritism ect.... The origin of bridesmaids was to frighten or confuse evil spirits or the devil. The bridesmaids would all dress the same as the bride so that the evil spirit wouldn't know which one was the bride in case it wanted to 'attack' her. 
Some sources state that, in ancient times, originally the bride and all the bridesmaids wore exactly the same dress and veiled their faces heavily, for the purpose of confusing jealous suitors and evil spirits. In China during the feudal era, the female womb was seen as precious for the production of an heir. (Wikki)
I'll finish on this one. 
Quote "Of course, some Witnesses had terrible experiences in the world, and the organization has truly provided a safe haven, and a spiritual paradise, relatively speaking."  Hum really ? Safe ? Spiritual ? 
Well most on here know my past experience of the 'world', well some of it anyway. So I do not see the JW Org as any different to the 'world' that JW's warn people about.  And spiritual paradise ? When the GB / writing dept' keep changing the meaning of scriptures and keep adding loads to people's shoulders and not offering even one finger to lighten the load.Aa scripture comes to mind about 'We favour adding no further burden to you other than ... " 
But ignore my moaning, it has been raining here and I have outside work to do, so I'm not happy. However now is time for lunch and food helps me to be happier. Have a good day JWI. 
 

I have seen this type of attitude go overboard even from those who lived most of their lives in the world, and I cringe for new ones who might be wondering where we get this from. As a parent, I admit that I've tended to exaggerate the moral problems of the world myself, and I've learned that this fear-mongering doesn't work at all with high-school kids. In fact, my own kids (3) learned to choose their friends based on morals and maturity, but some of their Witness friends didn't really make the grade. When my daughter got married, she felt bad about having to replace some of her best friends with her "more worldly" Witness friends when it came to choosing bridesmaids.
Of course, some Witnesses had terrible experiences in the world, and the organization has truly provided a safe haven, and a spiritual paradise, relatively speaking.
His abuse of others. In fact it was an over-the-top eulogy of how great he was with kids and how he was always interested in their spiritual welfare that seemed to trigger a muffled outburst during the talk, and just after the talk there was an argument by others in the family about always keeping quiet about shameful things. It finally spilled over to others outside the immediate family. And this brother's own granddaughter had no idea about it until the funeral. It was a mess!

@JW Insider in a nutshell it seems to me you are saying that JW Org /Watchtower Soc' are no better than any other religion, and can be seen to be no better.
JW's are volunteers, except for JW children of course. Hence I think baptism should not be until an 'adult' age. Then every real baptised JW would be a volunteer. People in the world are not volunteers. They are born into the world. So I see no point comparing JW's with people of the world. 
Quote "I thought there had not been any cases of CSA in any congregation I had personally been in, .. "  
But how would you know unless you are an Elder ? It's not announced from the platform is it. 
Quote "I've seen a lot of love and long-lasting friendships.. "
I go to classic car shows and automobilia auctions (which I'm involved in setting up ) and there are people there who have known each other for a 'lifetime' and have love and friendship amongst their fellow 'kinsmen'. 
YE olde JW's talk as though all the world is killing each other or on drugs and having multiple sex partners and orgies. Children in the JW Org are taught that everyone outside the Org serves the Devil. And the Armageddon pictures just to frighten people. 
And all people that leave the Org ' have gone back to' the 'ways of the world' which are wicked. I laugh at it all but it's not really funny. The Org lives on scaremongering. And I've said it before (but according to TTH it never happens) congregants are frightened of the Elders. Frightened of being reproved for the least little thing, whilst the Elders get away with much bigger things. 
Quote " at a recent funeral of a local elder when several tales of his abuse were exposed by family members.. "
Does this mean He abused others or He was abused by others ? 
Quote "But this is far from the norm.. " How do you know that ? It may be far from the norn where you are but I'm talking Earthwide. 
Enough, 11.30 am here in England. Coffee break, I'll even ask my wife if she wants coffee too :)  

You seem to have a habit of telling people that 'this never happens'. I think you told James the same about his comment.
Tom please wake up to the reality of JW life, sh-t happens. 
 

JW Congregations do not have "City Gates". (JW's are spiritual nomads, wandering for green grass, living under tents, not in the cities) :))
For that reason God allowed that some trials, judging and revelations/expose are/was happen/ed under ................Worldly City Gates.

Attitude? Finally understanding?  Gossip?  Unchristian Conduct?
It is unfortunate, but you are a very confused man. 

Really?  Have I ever said that?  I am not of Jewish natural descent.  Is the anointed “royal priesthood” made up of physical Jews? 
1 Pet 2:5,9,10  - you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once were not a people but are now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.
2 Cor 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Gal 3:29 - And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise.
2 Cor 11:2 - I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy.  I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.  
The anointed priesthood under Christ are spiritual “Israel”.  Rev 5:9,10; 7:4

@JW Insider  Quote "Also, just my opinion, but I don't think we need anything except to keep our eyes open and see the works of various Christian brotherhoods to know whether or not Jehovah's spirit is acting upon them. By their works you will recognize them. It's not that works result in our salvation, but that the "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, etc., etc." If our hearts desire Christian association with loving, peaceful, patient persons, we would find such ones to associate with."
Well I will admit that I haven't been going around different 'Christian brotherhoods' testing to see if they are good or not. 
However I have been connected to the JW organisation since I was around 19 and I'm now 69. And in that 50 years I've seen many things that are not Christian in that org. Many Elders that didn't have the right attitude or heart condition. I've seen Elders disfellowshipped. I know of one Elder that committed suicide by backing his Volvo up to his lounge window and put a hose through into his lounge and sat in a chair drinking alcohol and inhaling the exhaust smoke. Now that was a wonderful Christian attitude wasn't it ?  But his wife remarried very soon after, a ministerial servant, son of another Elder.  And that congregation was run by two families. it was like the mafia. I tell you truthfully I was glad to leave Filton Congregation in Bristol. Not a good example for those inside or outside. 
Then when i arrived here in Devon, I was in the Sidmouth congregation. But a new KH was built in a place named Honiton and the Sidmouth congregation had to join up with the Honiton congregation. I never known so much bickering over Elders positions. Of course joining two congregations there were too many Elders so some of them lost their positions. And the two congregations were not happy at all. I didn't see much examples of this love and peace you mention and funny thing is the total number of congregants very soon went down. At first the new hall was very crowded but within three months it  was half empty. 
I'm sorry I'm just telling it as it is, and could relate much more. So this idea that the JW Org is guided by God's Holy spirit is just a dream that JW's want to believe. 
You talk about : "works" of the spirit result in "love, joy, peace, patience, but what about the CSA committed by many Elders and other congregants earthwide ?  What about the shunning of people that were not disfellowshipped for sinning ?  So much badness in that Org from the top down.

@JW Insider  Won't the Anointed already be in heaven when the judgement happens ?
The separating of sheep from goats (earthly class) will be after the Anointed are taken up surely ? 
Those truly Anointed have surely already been chosen (seperated in a way from the earthly class), although it obviously depends on their true service to God through Christ for all of their earthly life.  
To judge the Anointed again would seem strange to me. 
In my opinion it is only those of the Anointed that can sin against the spirit. Because they are Spirit Anointed and brothers of Christ. But then in my opinion the Greek scriptures were written by and only for those of the true Anointed. 
The idea of the 'early church' that the Bible was only for those 'in charge'  seems basically right to me, but unfortunately they misused that power. 
Imagine just for one moment, a truly Anointed group of 'Spiritual Jews' here on earth, having direct spiritual contact with Jesus Christ, receiving perfect spiritual information (food at the proper time), which they then pass on in an honest and righteous way, to those of the earthly class.  Just imagine those of the earthly class, receiving that perfect information  and going into the ministry with God's blessing through Jesus Christ, to pass on that true God given information to deserving ones in the world............... 
That is where I'm coming from. That is how I think it should be. 

This is good  :)) ..... But if someone want to be very independent free will human , than he must go by his own path :)) even in wrong direction.

Wrong Billy! You changed thesis!
I am sure that you also  know, that it is not about issue of Transferring Perfection in question  but about Transferring Authority! 
After, later it came to the idea that such Authority means Infallibility.  

I'm glad you think so but that isn't the important thing, as you already know.
I guess your first point was that when I referenced the parable of the sheep being separated from the goats, I mentioned that I thought Jesus was separating two kinds of sheep from the goats.  You requoted a portion of what I said as follows:
I believe that when Jesus separates the sheep from the goats he is separating the anointed sheep as well as other sheep who don't identify themselves as anointed. (Matt 25:32)
You had asked for my opinion, and I told you this was part of my opinion. Absolutely nothing has changed. When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats, these sheep will include anointed sheep and other sheep who do not identify themselves as anointed. Let's assume for example, that you believe you are one of the anointed sheep, and I believe I am one of another class of sheep, as I do not identify myself as anointed. When Jesus comes to separate the sheep from the goats, I am hoping that he favors both of us with a place on his right hand, and that we are not going to be with the goats on his left.
You tried to explain that I meant something like this:
There is actually so much ambiguity in that first sentence that it is difficult to parse your meaning. Perhaps I worded it in a way that confused you, but I can't find the logic in the idea you apparently got out of it. I never said anything about who any of the goats were and where they might come from. I'm including sheep who claim to be anointed and sheep who claim not to be anointed in the sheep category who Jesus will place on his right. I didn't say anything about who the goats are.
I don't see a problem, and I don't see any reason to change, revise or edit anything.
Strange. I take this to be more of the kind of blame-shifting and projection that you have become infamous for. In the past, you have often copied pages from Christendom's commentaries, and pictures of scholarly looking book covers that have titles that appear to support your claims. Then someone points out that the contents of the book show just the opposite of your claim. Then you go twisting and scrambling to make it look like you never made a mistake after all.
I've even seen this type of twisting and scrambling for something as simple as a typo or mistaken definition, or misused vocabulary. When someone pointed it out to you, you doubled-down with some absolutely incredible pseudo-explanation to avoid admitting even a minor mistake. Sometimes, you apparently resort to meaningless word-salads or other types of word-play, and I can't tell if you think it worked to impress others, or to obfuscate. But whenever you get a piece of criticism like this you can be counted on to counter-claim that it is others who use word-play and word-salads, or you go on a temper-rant claiming that people are making fun of you.
I'd recommend that before you start claiming that I say things "in order to confuse" just ask others if they were also confused. Maybe they were, and this means I should rewrite it, but if it's mostly just you who's confused, just ask more questions, and I'll be happy to explain further the things that you might not have understood correctly -- just as I am happy to do now.
You also apparently had a problem with my statement that Zechariah 8 (in context) gives us some good ideas about helping others to become Christians, which should be a goal of our ministry. You requoted a portion here: “My own opinions here are somewhat separate. Although on the matter of Zechariah 8, I think that chapter really does provide an excellent and important image for us to remember about our own attempts to make converts to true Christianity”
Again, I don't see what kind of a problem you would have with this. We want people we meet in our ministry and persons whom we hope to have study the Bible with us become converted to true Christianity. Right? The context of Zechariah 8 had shown how this would be fulfilled in the midst of economic hardships and disappointments and even the incursion of enemies/opposers. I had already pointed this out and also wanted to show how the image of having people come to us can sometimes be more important that us coming to them. If we are true Christians, we will be known by reputation. As Jesus said (and as my very next sentence began after the portion you quoted):
I partially understand why you wish to disagree with me whenever you have a chance, but you very often seem to forget that when you are so anxious to be an opposer, when not careful, you can end up opposing Jesus' own words, too.

Billy there is no talking with you. You are completely blinded by your worship of those 8 MEN.
It matters not if they say revise, change, alter, new light, or anything else, they still deliberately tell lies. 
They use words to deceive people Billy. AND they change meanings of scripture and misuse scripture too. 
Sorry you are not mature enough spiritually or mentally to face those facts. It's your loss. 

In any "theological pissing contest", the arguments that have the fewest words are usually the Truth.
I think I will believe the Governing Body verbatim, on this one ..... which summarizes  arrogance and screw-ups since 1870.
It's ONLY TWO very short sentences long.
And the Truth is self-evident.

....and just as an aside, I'll match your Pope picture, and raise you two absurdities.

 

How can you say that the Watchtower society / JW Org / GB dispense truth when they keep changing the meaning of scriptures ? It is not a lie to say they they have changed the meaning of the scripture concerning 'This generation will not pass away' .. It is not a lie that they changed the meaning of the scripture concerning the 'Superior Authorities'. it gets boring repeating this but you obviously don't believe they change the meaning of scriptures. 
They also misuse scripture and misuse their 'authority' but that is another matter. 
The GB have no way of proving that they have been chosen by God to do His will. They admit not to be inspired. They even admit that they make mistakes. If they have the responsibility of 8.5 million lives already, and if they have yet another 9 million bible studies going on, and if they have the job of gathering all those with the right heart condition, then surely they would need to be inspired by God, and surely Jesus Christ would not let them give false information or make mistakes which would stumble thousands of people earthwide and stop some people even being interested in the JW Org.
As for understanding, you only seem to understand the GB's / Watchtower's meaning of scripture, so you prove yourself to be following MEN. 
Sorry Billy but you do make yourself open to criticism by your blindly believing all that the Watchtower / GB tells you. 
 

Just in case anyone wondered why I had thought to make the point that it was my own opinion that the sheep separated to Jesus' right would include the "anointed" -- here's the reason:
Our current Watchtower publications very often imply that the sheep that Jesus separates to his right do NOT include the anointed. Because of the distinction made between Christ's brothers and these sheep, I think most Witnesses already understand it this way, but it's rarely stated explicity and succinctly except in some convention talks. The most succinct statement I remember in writing is here in the Insight book:
*** it-1 p. 1184 Illustrations ***
Notice that the “sheep,” who are put on the right hand of the enthroned Son of man, are shown to be different from Jesus Christ’s “brothers,” to whom they did acts of kindness.—Mt 25:34-40; Heb 2:11, 12.
There have been several significant historical changes to our interpretations of this doctrine, which might make for an enlightening discussion to some. But I won't intentionally drag out this particular thread to explain. The 93 and 95 Watchtower references from the WT Publications Index will give some significant quotes about former doctrinal beliefs on the topic:

[Matthew] 25:32   it-1 1183-1184; w15 1/1 13; re 123; w98 8/15 20; w95 2/1 12-13; w95 10/15 22-24; w93 5/1 19; jv 163-164; w89 5/1 19; w87 3/1 29; w87 5/15 12-13
[Matthew] 25:33   it-1 1029, 1184; w95 2/1 12-13; w93 5/1 19; jv 163-164
[Matthew] 25:34   it-2 1207; w95 10/15 26-27; jv 164; gt 111; w90 5/15 8; w90 6/1 6; w89 9/1 19-20
 

NOW! you have ticked me off... STOP CALLING ME SHIRLEY !
( Merely a Pavlonian response ... )

I appreciate your scholarship, JWI ... but I think I have PTSD, and no longer care.
I have been "Gogged and Magogged" to death over the last 50 years, and find, at least for me, there are MORE IMPORTANT things to occupy my attention ... down here, where the "rubber meets the road".
Things like Justice, Fairness, Equity, Gentleness, and Compassion.
Whatever the case is .... soon enough ... we will ALL KNOW,
... perhaps TOO SOON.
 

ahahaha.  This statement made it clear how FDS thought was different in the past and they changed that thought today. It is not about what WE (JW's rank and file members) thought before. It is all about Them aka GB of WTJWORG. :))

@JW Insider 
July 2015 Watchtower simplified edition. Para 16.
Sometime after the attack of Gog begins, all the remaining anointed ones on earth will be taken to heaven. Then Revelation 17:14 tells us about the reaction in heaven  to Gog’s attack. The enemies of God’s people “will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” Thus, Jesus, together with his 144,000 anointed kings in heaven, will rescue God’s people here on earth.
17 That rescue will result in the battle of Armageddon, which will bring glory to Jehovah’s holy name....................
So this W/t says all the 144,000 will be in heaven before Armageddon starts.  
But are you saying that the Judgement of the earthly class is prior to this happening ? 
I also remember a scripture at Matthew 24 v 22
In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. 
How does this fit into the equation ? 

@BillyTheKid46
Are you on crusade with downvotes this evening ? :))))

I used the old NWT, since about 1962 to 2015 ... then I took a Brother (tm) label maker, and on the binder of my ASV wrote on yellow tape, in black  "AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION", so that when I was ACCUSED by a householder of using the NWT, I could show them that I was NOT.
The dumbed down, paraphrased version of 2013 embarrasses me for a variety of reasons.
In Dodge City, Kansas, I suspect the new NWT would not have been the preferred version of Marshal Matt Dillon, or that Long Branch Saloon BRAZEN HUSSY, Miss Kitty.