AlanF

Somehow you missed how the elders judged the victim, a 14 year old girl, as the one to be blamed.  
Depends on the laws at the time?  What about God's laws fulfilled in Christ?  
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”  Gal 5:14
Did the elders enact that law when speaking with the victim?
The first to respond to the issue were the elders, whose response only added to the trauma the victim was suffering.  The biggest flaw here, is the system that the girl depended on to give her spiritual support.  The elders' "hasty decision" aided the woman to consider suicide.  

JW Insider said:
 
Yes, but until very recently that was not the case. Note:
<< How did this governing body make its appearance in recent times? Evidently under the direction of Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ. According to the facts available, the governing body became associated with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. C. T. Russell was patently of that governing body back there in the last quarter of the nineteenth century. >> The Watchtower, Dec. 15, 1971, p. 760, written by Fred Franz, Vice President and chief theologian of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.
It is entirely relevant, since the Society has long claimed continuity of "the faithful slave and its governing body" from apostolic times. That this claim is manifestly false is irrelevant; the claim itself is the important thing. The GB's recent divorcing itself from Russell is a self-serving political move.
Exactly.
Quite so. Just as there is today around the current Governing Body -- all instigated by years of promotion by Watchtower publications.

TrueTomHarley said:
     
    
Note how this liar completely ignores what I said and doubles down on his practice of lying and his lousy reading comprehension:
Like I said, lousy reading comprehension. Few others seem to have a problem understanding what I write.
Perhaps long years of reading 3rd-grade level Watchtower publications have damaged your brain.
I'm very thorough because I actually pay attention to what people write. You obviously don't.
Much of your reading comprehension problem is that you either don't seem to read carefully -- no surprise, given that WTS publications lend themselves to this -- or you simply haven't the mental acuity to put two and two together. I suspect it's a combination of both.
This goes along with your inability to write clearly. Your one blog post that I read is a real dog's breakfast of semi-gobble-de-goop.
As for the board software, if you make a post, and try to make another post immediately afterward, it merges the two. I've never seen this happen on any other board.
Furthermore, there appears to be no way to generate a quote inside a quote. If you've figured out how to do this, then do enlighten me, oh great software wizard. I won't be holding my breath.

JW Insider said:
Not at all.
I see no contradictions there, so let me try to clarify.
Getting rid of the DF'ing policy would allow many JWs to leave and not lose their family members. Very many JWs make a pretense of being JWs simply to avoid being shunned by family members.
     
Whatever the general statistics are, ex-JWs courageous enough to tell their experiences are a statistic of their own. And it's born out by my family experiences, where several have contacted me and expressed fear about getting shunned even if they quietly leave.
True, but that's not what I'm concerned about. I'm concerned with the deliberate destruction of family relationships by the shunning policy, period. A JW might have quietly left, but experience shows that a goodly fraction have been later DF'd for a any number of things they did after leaving. There is no excuse for that policy.
Perhaps, but most would be DF'd or DA'd anyway, resulting in shunning.
But if the honest answer is "No, I don't believe the GB speaks for God", disfellowshipping immediately follows.
All of which is irrelevant to my point.
Perhaps, but what about the GB and its minions being humble enough to admit in specific cases that a teaching is wrong? Remember what happened with Carl Olof Jonsson and James Penton. Remember my experience with Albert Schroeder.
     
I agree, but you'll never convince JW leaders.
     
True. The Douglas Walsh trial made it abundantly clear that, because of that and other considerations, the Society would not tolerate any questioning of its claimed spiritual authority.
And that's rub! JW leaders are convinced that they speak for God, and you dasn't question God!
They have a correspondence department of sorts, but experience shows that most of the time a letter writer gets no response, or the letter is forwarded to local elders, often with a note of "watch out for a potential apostate". This behavior creates much resentment.
But these ideas are fairly easy to deal with. There are plenty of online forums that can be referred to that debunk such nonsense. But again that's very much against the Society's claim to speak for God.
I haven't talked to him in a long time, but he was at one time a fiery defender of the Watchtower. In the late 1980s he wrote a treatise explaining why JWs are not false prophets. But the Society didn't like him writing such things, viewing it as a usurpation of its authority. Based on trumped up charges, Hess was DF'd. He told me that right up to the instant that the elders DF'd him around 1990 he was convinced that the GB was legitimate. In 1993 the Awake! writers used his treatise as a basis for a big spread on why JW are not false prophets.
     
Yes, I probably went too far in making such a blanket statement.
Nothing wrong with that. It's what people do in everyday life. Exercising a conscience.
Which they certainly can do. And the internal congregational 'party line' would certainly spread around who was an undesirable.
Exactly. The latter is just plain blackmail.
As I said above.

4Jah2me said:
My, my. Such inconvenient facts you've pointed out.
The problem with their honestly admitting that they don't know is that it is a matter of serious doctrine that they appear to themselves and their followers to be speaking with authority, the authority of God and Christ. Admitting they don't know has always been equated with admitting they don't have that authority. But we all know that they neither represent God nor speak for him.

JW Insider said:
     
True, but many languages don't distinguish capitals from lowercase in proper names. In French, for example, you have "les témoins de jéhovah". This is never capitalized. And you have German, which capitalizes all sorts of words (I don't enough to say more).
The ambiguity was deliberate. It allowed the Society to make false claims about the history of "Jehovah's witnesses" by blurring the distinction between the modern religion and generic past "witnesses". Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose was especially dishonest in doing this.
In many cases the context shows that blurring the distinction between "W" and "w" is deliberate. Old timers certainly know the difference.

In Croatian are some different rules about uppercase and lowercase letters in these sort of two words names, titles. Because of this, I wasn't careful enough about what it would mean in the English language. Croatian WT magazines are translated with small letter for word "Witnesses" in name JW.
When I connected the past and the present and all those various people who showed themselves to be "witnesses" for JHVH in some specific way, then that meant continuity. Not only or not at all the continuity of a legal entity - an organization, but the existence of a type of people, as individuals and as groups. That is something how JW organization and WT Society, as legal entities, looking on themselves ...as continuation, as heirs of true faith, as witnesses for JHVH, from the time of the all faithful man of old and old patriarchs. 
 
In that sense, a legacy that the WT Society draws from Bible Students of Russell (teaching, doctrines, ideas, beliefs, administration) legally belongs to today's JW as facts that created and been cause for future "destiny" of those who continued the work of founders in 19th century. In such way of logic, all Russell's teaching and belief system, later abandoned, stay as real history of this, today existed JW organization. Museums halls that exists in worldwide Betel's buildings (Branch Offices) proves this. JW of today are proud of their history and beginnings in 19th century (not before, because Bible pictures of faithful men and Israel nation is heritage that many other religions want to appropriate for themselves too). By publicly showing and talking and writing about that in such way, JW accepting all what was said (teachings) before 1931 as own spiritual heritage that must to be carry today (as sort of burden).    

TrueTomHarley said:
    
Well, many times you've deliberately misquoted or distorted my words, or claimed I said something or have views that have nothing to with reality. Why should this time be different?
If it was an honest mistake, then kudos for fessing up to it.
     
That's better. Try being a competent poster in the future.
Still missing the point. Even though I clearly explained it.
LOL! In every case the Watchtower leaders who led the charge claimed inspiration or nearly so with their predictions. And their followers believed them.
Obviously, after Rutherford's failed 1925 prediction, where he admitted making an ass of himself, he and his lieutenants did not learn their lesson. Fifty years later -- not close to 1925 -- old Freddie did the same thing with 1975. And the muck up when the Jan. 1, 1989 Watchtower said that the preaching work would be completed in the 20th century occurred because both the writer and the GB reviewers all agreed on the idea.
Your rationalizations are ludicrous, in view of the facts.

Anna said:
     
Of course it does! Since no man can perfectly apply scripture, all appointments of elders are done by imperfect men -- not by infallible holy spirit.
Why is that so hard to understand?
You should also know how the Society actually does such appointments. First, a body of elders discusses a man's qualifications. Then they submit a recommendation to the Circuit Oversee (or however it's done today). He in turn sends it along to the Service Department, which reviews the elders' notes and reviews its own files on the man. If all checks out, they send back a Yes note to the congregation. Just men doing perfectly normal things all through the process. See W85 8/1 p. 31 and my 1992-3 analysis of it https://www.critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-2-societys-view-of-elders.html.
Below you'll find my experience in finding out that elders are not directly appointed by holy spirit. The time frame is the three years after the failure of the prediction of Armageddon by 1975. You can find a lot more at https://ad1914.com/the-jw-experience-of-alan-feuerbacher/
<<
During this time an incident occurred that was to have a major negative impact on my confidence in Watchtower teaching. A friend in the congregation, a young man a bit younger than me, had supported himself by mowing lawns while pioneering. After he got married, he gradually worked that into a landscaping business, and began hiring young men. He was naïve about business requirements and failed to do all the necessary tax work for the people he hired. At one point, a much older man, a JW elder, found out about the tax slip. Apparently there had been bad blood between the families for a long time, so this elder attempted to have my friend disfellowshipped for breaking Caesar’s law. The body of elders, which included my stepdad, should have ended the matter then and there, because according to
Watchtower Society policy, whether someone fulfills all of Caesar’s requirements is not the elders’ business. But the elders deliberated time after time for six months, acting like the Keystone Kops. At one point they decided to disfellowship, then rescinded that, then went for private reproof. I found out about all this when the matter was about 2/3 finished. Finally the Society was called in, which called in yet another elder body, which decided that the matter never should have been brought up to begin with, since it is not the congregation’s business whether someone handles their taxes properly.
I asked my stepdad about what was going on, and he sheepishly told me. That got me thinking seriously about whether elders really are appointed and directed by holy spirit, as the Society had always taught. If these elders really had the holy spirit’s backing when making their decisions, then why the Keystone Kops behavior? So I asked my stepdad and several other elders to explain all this. They were unable to explain anything to my satisfaction, so I wrote the Society about all this, and so it was arranged that the Circuit Overseer, one Wesley Benner, would explain things to me. We spoke for an hour at my parents’ home, and he certainly cleared things up for me. Benner explainedthat when the Society said that elders are appointed and directed by holy spirit, that was only a manner of speaking. As long as the men who actually appoint them go strictly by the Bible’s standards for appointing elders, then because the Bible is inspired by holy spirit, it can be said that, in effect, holy spirit has appointed or directed the elder.
That did not set well, because that is not the impression one gets from reading Watchtower publications. Rather, the clear implication is that God himself directly appoints elders, and even directly guides them to correct decisions. So I asked Benner if I could summarize the Society’s teaching, and said that he should tell me whether I understood. I asked him point blank: “In one sentence, is it or is it not true that elders are *directly* appointed by holy spirit?” He hesitated, hung his head, and answered, “No.”
>>
All of that is irrelevant to the question I posed to the Society more than 40 years ago. As Circuit Overseer Benner told me, elders are not directly appointed by holy spirit. Indirect appointment is not direct appointment: it is only a manner of speaking.
     
Of course it does. If the process fails in one case, when the process is supposed to be spirit-directed by infallible holy spirit, the process itself is defective. That means that holy spirit actually has nothing to do with the process, as my experience with the Keystone Kops elders and Brother Benner proves.
Don't you realize that the claim of spirit-direction is a scam? A scam to fool JWs into obeying JW leaders as if God himself were speaking?
Read my previous post to Arauna and tell me if, despite the facts I presented, such a fallible group of JW leaders, who have never gotten a single prediction right and have taught dozens of false doctrines, you still think their claim to speak for God holds up. If not, then they are not spirit-directed, any more than you or I am.
But that flies in the face of actual experience.
No clue who that is.
     
One case? I've read about many. And I know about a lot of cases that never made it to court because of technicalities.
You ought to phone up Barbara Anderson.
Ok.
     
I'm talking about the general failure of Watchtower policy to protect children and molestation victims. Also about internal Service and Legal Department policies that often direct elders to lie to pretty much everyone involved in a case, including police and the courts.
The present policies are better than the old ones, but remain inadequate.
And of course, the fact that the Society fights against lawsuit bringers tooth and nail, rather than admitting past wrongdoing, proves that its officials are really not interested in doing right by victims.
     
That's my point: saying that reading the Bible and imperfectly attempting to apply it, while saying that in effect, holy spirit appoints elders, is semantically equivalent to saying that Julia Child in effect directs your cooking, when all you've done is try to follow the written directions. "Indirect guidance" is only a manner of speaking and is in no sense equivalent to direct guidance.
If you told your friends that Julia Child directed you, but all you did was follow her book, they'd rightly judge you as nuts.
But in no case did Julia Child direct you. Following written directions is not the same as being actively directed by the writer.
By that standard, sincere Christians of every sort can claim spirit-direction. But as a JW you must reject that claim.
That would be speaking honestly.
Of course, because that's exactly what the Society's dishonesty does. I had several discussions about this with my elder stepdad (now deceased) over the years, and he steadfastly insisted that his own appointment was directly by holy spirit. Most elders and JWs believe the same thing. The Society's claims are all about maintaining control, since you don't disagree with God.
As I showed above, it is never the case.
By that standard, if I "took the lead", would anyone in his right mind obey me?
But that is what the Society demands. Do you need to see quotes from WTS publications?
"Bad" is different from "stupid". But the Governing Body explicitly demands such blind obedience.
If he were alive today he would likely be disfellowshipped for apostasy if he disagreed with the GB.
In principle, not in practice. In practice if someone decides that what God says is different from what JW leaders say, most JWs go with their leaders. That's the point of my posting about my conversation with GB member Albert Schroeder about Luke 21: he could not argue with the Bible, but he ended up declaring that the Bible does not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses if their teaching goes against the Bible.
Yes, in principle. In practice they would surely be disfellowshipped.
     
But as I've shown, my conclusions are based on facts and sound reasoning.
All of that evidence is not real, it's purely imaginary. Example: some years ago my sister-in-law, a thoroughly deceived JW, decided to help make curtains for her KH. She laid out the patterns and went to a fabric store. There she found a roll of fabric of exactly the right size. She concluded that Jehovah had somehow made that roll be available. Which of course, even most JWs find ludicrous. All other such 'evidence of God's spirit' is of a similar nature.

Me, "as regular Joe", have to be sad and have amusement in the same time  about your  idea how God "oversee and monitor the work of the GB".  If He doing this monitoring, that is in a manner how he view many other human activities - to allows them but not to approved them.
What is real point in this? How WT lying about own history and their position before God? In informal way, Bible students (in Russell time) were been (and are under different names today) witnesses for JHVH. WT have logic how all people from past until today who worship JHVH, ARE Jehovah's Witnesses. :))

About nine years ago (?) I had three elders, like circling sharks in the water, surround me at the Kingdom Hall after the Watchtower Study, as I was standing in an aisle talking to someone, and without any foreplay, one asked me , while the others stared at me, "What do you think about the Governing Body?".
I blurted out the first thing that came to my mind, "I do not think about them at all."
They left me alone for several years after that.

Landshark - SNL.mp4

11 Do you have a position of authority? If so, ask yourself: ‘What kind of environment do I create at work or at home? Do I promote peace? Do I encourage others to ask questions? And am I willing to hear their opinions?’ Never would we want to be like the Pharisees, who resented those who questioned them and persecuted those who expressed an opinion contrary to their own.—Mark 3:1-6; John 9:29-34. - WT study article September 2019, page 23 par 11
"What kind of environment" do GB create inside JW Organization aka congregations ?

No Anna, in this issue not. In Department (Writing Dep. i assume) i guess there is a people who doing writings for commissioned articles about this and that, or have some list of topics to cover. And then some overseer of department splits the tasks to best writer for particular theme. 
Is there any committee or individuals that oversee or monitor the work of the GB? My guess is it doesn't exist. So there is no objective, more real picture of the true state of GB.  The conversations conducted here show that there are many valid reasons for correcting GB.
If someone inside Betel writes an article about GB, his writing is influenced by his employer, which is GB. Writing in the first or third person loses all meaning if we have a text that is not objective about those who are being written.
 
You said:  Sometimes they, the GB get more personal and say "we, the GB have decided.....etc"  I can't recall something was written this way. It reminds very strong on Bile report: WE and HOLY SPIRIT..... DECIDED to.....:))))) but because GB are not inspired, decision is only from them NOT with/under HS cooperation/influence.
It wasn't that long ago when most JWS didn't even know who the members of the GB were. Or only had very slight knowledge. But there are autobiographical articles (life stories) about members of the GB in the publications written in the first person. That is true. And this PR about GB members not going to be blessing for JW's, as i see. Because, while readers looking on text they are/been limited on letters and words and on own understanding and reasoning. Now, when you can see person who speaking those words, his look and gestures and mimics, his tone of voice...picture getting to be clearer, bigger and stronger. Viewer of JWTV program now have better chance to reject preaching of such religious leaders, than he/she got while reading paper only.  

Anna said:
     
Of course it does! Since no man can perfectly apply scripture, all appointments of elders are done by imperfect men -- not by infallible holy spirit.
Why is that so hard to understand?
You should also know how the Society actually does such appointments. First, a body of elders discusses a man's qualifications. Then they submit a recommendation to the Circuit Oversee (or however it's done today). He in turn sends it along to the Service Department, which reviews the elders' notes and reviews its own files on the man. If all checks out, they send back a Yes note to the congregation. Just men doing perfectly normal things all through the process. See W85 8/1 p. 31 and my 1992-3 analysis of it https://www.critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-2-societys-view-of-elders.html.
Below you'll find my experience in finding out that elders are not directly appointed by holy spirit. The time frame is the three years after the failure of the prediction of Armageddon by 1975. You can find a lot more at https://ad1914.com/the-jw-experience-of-alan-feuerbacher/
<<
During this time an incident occurred that was to have a major negative impact on my confidence in Watchtower teaching. A friend in the congregation, a young man a bit younger than me, had supported himself by mowing lawns while pioneering. After he got married, he gradually worked that into a landscaping business, and began hiring young men. He was naïve about business requirements and failed to do all the necessary tax work for the people he hired. At one point, a much older man, a JW elder, found out about the tax slip. Apparently there had been bad blood between the families for a long time, so this elder attempted to have my friend disfellowshipped for breaking Caesar’s law. The body of elders, which included my stepdad, should have ended the matter then and there, because according to
Watchtower Society policy, whether someone fulfills all of Caesar’s requirements is not the elders’ business. But the elders deliberated time after time for six months, acting like the Keystone Kops. At one point they decided to disfellowship, then rescinded that, then went for private reproof. I found out about all this when the matter was about 2/3 finished. Finally the Society was called in, which called in yet another elder body, which decided that the matter never should have been brought up to begin with, since it is not the congregation’s business whether someone handles their taxes properly.
I asked my stepdad about what was going on, and he sheepishly told me. That got me thinking seriously about whether elders really are appointed and directed by holy spirit, as the Society had always taught. If these elders really had the holy spirit’s backing when making their decisions, then why the Keystone Kops behavior? So I asked my stepdad and several other elders to explain all this. They were unable to explain anything to my satisfaction, so I wrote the Society about all this, and so it was arranged that the Circuit Overseer, one Wesley Benner, would explain things to me. We spoke for an hour at my parents’ home, and he certainly cleared things up for me. Benner explainedthat when the Society said that elders are appointed and directed by holy spirit, that was only a manner of speaking. As long as the men who actually appoint them go strictly by the Bible’s standards for appointing elders, then because the Bible is inspired by holy spirit, it can be said that, in effect, holy spirit has appointed or directed the elder.
That did not set well, because that is not the impression one gets from reading Watchtower publications. Rather, the clear implication is that God himself directly appoints elders, and even directly guides them to correct decisions. So I asked Benner if I could summarize the Society’s teaching, and said that he should tell me whether I understood. I asked him point blank: “In one sentence, is it or is it not true that elders are *directly* appointed by holy spirit?” He hesitated, hung his head, and answered, “No.”
>>
All of that is irrelevant to the question I posed to the Society more than 40 years ago. As Circuit Overseer Benner told me, elders are not directly appointed by holy spirit. Indirect appointment is not direct appointment: it is only a manner of speaking.
     
Of course it does. If the process fails in one case, when the process is supposed to be spirit-directed by infallible holy spirit, the process itself is defective. That means that holy spirit actually has nothing to do with the process, as my experience with the Keystone Kops elders and Brother Benner proves.
Don't you realize that the claim of spirit-direction is a scam? A scam to fool JWs into obeying JW leaders as if God himself were speaking?
Read my previous post to Arauna and tell me if, despite the facts I presented, such a fallible group of JW leaders, who have never gotten a single prediction right and have taught dozens of false doctrines, you still think their claim to speak for God holds up. If not, then they are not spirit-directed, any more than you or I am.
But that flies in the face of actual experience.
No clue who that is.
     
One case? I've read about many. And I know about a lot of cases that never made it to court because of technicalities.
You ought to phone up Barbara Anderson.
Ok.
     
I'm talking about the general failure of Watchtower policy to protect children and molestation victims. Also about internal Service and Legal Department policies that often direct elders to lie to pretty much everyone involved in a case, including police and the courts.
The present policies are better than the old ones, but remain inadequate.
And of course, the fact that the Society fights against lawsuit bringers tooth and nail, rather than admitting past wrongdoing, proves that its officials are really not interested in doing right by victims.
     
That's my point: saying that reading the Bible and imperfectly attempting to apply it, while saying that in effect, holy spirit appoints elders, is semantically equivalent to saying that Julia Child in effect directs your cooking, when all you've done is try to follow the written directions. "Indirect guidance" is only a manner of speaking and is in no sense equivalent to direct guidance.
If you told your friends that Julia Child directed you, but all you did was follow her book, they'd rightly judge you as nuts.
But in no case did Julia Child direct you. Following written directions is not the same as being actively directed by the writer.
By that standard, sincere Christians of every sort can claim spirit-direction. But as a JW you must reject that claim.
That would be speaking honestly.
Of course, because that's exactly what the Society's dishonesty does. I had several discussions about this with my elder stepdad (now deceased) over the years, and he steadfastly insisted that his own appointment was directly by holy spirit. Most elders and JWs believe the same thing. The Society's claims are all about maintaining control, since you don't disagree with God.
As I showed above, it is never the case.
By that standard, if I "took the lead", would anyone in his right mind obey me?
But that is what the Society demands. Do you need to see quotes from WTS publications?
"Bad" is different from "stupid". But the Governing Body explicitly demands such blind obedience.
If he were alive today he would likely be disfellowshipped for apostasy if he disagreed with the GB.
In principle, not in practice. In practice if someone decides that what God says is different from what JW leaders say, most JWs go with their leaders. That's the point of my posting about my conversation with GB member Albert Schroeder about Luke 21: he could not argue with the Bible, but he ended up declaring that the Bible does not apply to Jehovah's Witnesses if their teaching goes against the Bible.
Yes, in principle. In practice they would surely be disfellowshipped.
     
But as I've shown, my conclusions are based on facts and sound reasoning.
All of that evidence is not real, it's purely imaginary. Example: some years ago my sister-in-law, a thoroughly deceived JW, decided to help make curtains for her KH. She laid out the patterns and went to a fabric store. There she found a roll of fabric of exactly the right size. She concluded that Jehovah had somehow made that roll be available. Which of course, even most JWs find ludicrous. All other such 'evidence of God's spirit' is of a similar nature.

Arauna said:
     
Actually I do. I get most of my news from comedy shows like Saturday Night Live, The Tonight Show with Steven Colbert, etc. Far more reliable than plain old cable TV news.
But you're deliberately missing my point: A long history of failed predictions of specific dates for "the end" (1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, 2000) plus a history of generally false predictions, prove that JW leaders have no actual understanding of whatever the Bible really says or of world events. By the same token, neither do you.
Furthermore, you're ignoring the Bible's counsel: "Do not interpretations belong to God?"--Gen. 40:8. These interpretations are not of the Bible itself, but of things going on in the world.
Here you go trying to interpret world events:
Wow, Daniel 11:40 onward. This is a prime example of what I said above.
You might not know this, but at least as far back as the beginning of WWII the Society has been claiming that various political entities constituted the "king of the north" and the "king of the south", and that these would battle each other, culminating in Armageddon. They have never failed to be wrong. For example:
In the 1941 booklet Comfort All That Mourn, the Society identified the "king of the north" as the Axis powers and the "king of the south" as the British Commonwealth. It said:
<<
Now all the world witnesses "the king of the north" and "the king of the south" in the deadly grip of war, to determine which shall rule the world. (p. 15)
The prophecy of Daniel, at the eleventh chapter, proceeds to detail the struggle between "the king of the north" and "the king of the south", and definitely tells of the everlasting end of the totalitarian rule and that the Axis combine, the dictatorial rule, shall soon cease for ever. (p. 16)
While the two kings, "the king of the north" and "the king of the south", engage in the most deadly and destructive war of all time, the God of heaven sets up his kingdom, as Jehovah by his prophecy of Daniel foretold: "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."--Daniel 2:44. . . During the past few years the Lord has sent forth his servants to bear witness before the people of and concerning his kingdom, and, this done, there shall follow quickly "the battle of that great day of God Almighty", and which will be the greatest tribulation the world will ever have known. . . The power of the Lord at Armageddon, exercised against God's enemies,will put an everlasting end to the "Axis powers" and to all similar powers of wickedness. (pp. 21-22)
>>
Did Armageddon come during the midst of WWII as the Society claimed it would? No. Another failed prediction supposedly based on "the Bible" but was merely among the "dreams and guesses" of false teachers like Fred Franz.
A few years later the 1958 book Your Will Be Done on Earth forgot all about the failed 1941 prediction, and came up with a new raft of predictions about the kings of the north and south. By that time, of course, the cold war was ongoing between the Soviet bloc and the Anglo-American bloc. The book took three chapters to expound on Fred Franz's fanciful interpretations of Daniel, Revelation and so forth. He actually claimed that these kings have existed since Daniel's day! This was ridiculous because he very well that the events of Daniel 11 are supposed to be fulfilled during "the time of the end". Of course, today the Society has given up on nearly all of these idiotic notions. Here are a few things the 1958 book predicted:
<<
The king of the south and the king of the north stand at Armageddon... In the confused fighting between the "two kings" as crazed enemies of Jehovah God and his kingdom, the "kings" will have opportunity and occasion to try out and use their frightful, deadly weapons of all kinds against each other. (p. 297)
Jehovah's angel foretold further aggressions by the Communist king of the north before his end in Armageddon: "And he will stretch forth his hand against some countries, and the land of Egypt will not escape. And he will have control over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the costly things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians will follow at his steps."... How far the king of the north will have got when he reaches his "time of the end" the future alone will tell. But he is predicted to gain control over the treasures of gold, silver and all the precious things of this commercialized, materialistic world, including oil. (pp. 300, 303)
>>
Did any that happen? No. Rather, in 1991 the Soviet bloc collapsed, leaving the Society no "king of the north" to prophesy about.
A handful of years before that collapse, the July 1, 1987 Watchtower more or less repeated the 1958 nonsense. Note these claims:
<<
Many years ago, Jehovah revealed the historical development of events that would lead up to his bringing peace to the earth. Through an angel, he spoke to his faithful prophet Daniel about "the final part of the days," our own time. (Daniel 10:4) He foretold today's superpower rivalry and showed that it will soon end in a way that neither power suspects... (p. 11)
The disposition of the latest king of the north is well described in verses 37, 38 [of Dan. 11]: "And to the God of his fathers he will give no consideration ... But to the god of fortresses, in his position he will give glory; and to a god that his fathers did not know he will give glory by means of gold and by means of silver and by means of precious stone and by means of desirable things." Can anyone fail to recognize this description? Todays king of the north officially promotes atheism, rejecting the religious gods of previous kings of the north. He prefers to trust in armaments, "the god of fortresses."... (pp. 13-14)
So what finally happens between these two kings? The angel says: "And in the time of the end [the end of the history of the two kings] the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and with horsemen and with many ships." (Daniel 11:40; Matthew 24:3) Clearly, summit conferences are no solution to the superpower rivalry. The tensions caused by the 'pushing' of the king of the south and the expansionism of the king of the north may go through more or less intense phases; but eventually, in some way, the king of the north will be provoked into the excessively violent action described by Daniel. (p. 14)
>>
The Society has long claimed that those who are of the "anointed class" fulfill Daniel 12:3, 4, which reads, in The New World Translation:
<< And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever. And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant. >>
The Society has long taught that the ones of Jehovah's Witnesses of the "anointed class" are "the ones having insight", as shown by the July 1, 1987, Watchtower, which said, on pages 23-5, under the sub-title "True Knowledge Will Become Abundant":
<<
But for those who remain faithful, the prophecy says: "And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever." (Daniel 12:3) "The ones having insight" are clearly the faithful remaining members of the anointed Christian congregation, who are 'filled with accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension.'... Ever since 1919, though 'darkness itself covers the earth, and thick gloom the national groups,' they have been "shining as illuminators" among mankind. (Isaiah 60:2; Philippians 2:15; Matthew 5:14-16) They "shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." -- Matthew 13:43.
How do they prove to be "those who are bringing the many to righteousness"? (Daniel 12:3) Thanks to their faithful witnessing, the final ones of spiritual Israel have been gathered in and declared righteous for life in the heavens. Additionally, a great crowd of "other sheep" has manifested itself, flocking to the light from Jehovah as reflected by 'Daniel's people.'...
The angel then offers words of counsel to Daniel: "And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant." (Daniel 12:4) These words arrest our attention. Although the angel's prophecy concerning the two kings began to be fulfilled some 2,300 years ago, the understanding of it has been opened up primarily during "the time of the end," particularly since 1919. In these days, "many ... rove about" in the Bible, and true knowledge has indeed become abundant. Now is the time that Jehovah has given knowledge to understanding ones...
Stay close, then, to "the ones having insight," who are 'shining like the brightness of the expanse.'
>>
The above means that during "the time of the end", true knowledge would become abundant due to teaching by "the ones having insight." This would especially include understanding the book of Daniel itself, since Dan. 12:9-10 says:
<< And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end... And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand." >>
Clearly, then, by the Society's own teachings, which include that we are now in "the time of the end", JW leaders obviously do not understand Daniel and so are not among "the ones having insight" but among "the wicked ones".
Alternatively, we are not in "the time of the end", which reveals another huge raft of false claims by JW leaders.
The above-quoted passages from JW publications are not unique in claiming that JW leaders are "the ones having insight" into Daniel's prophecies and world events:
<< To us in this "time of the end" Daniel's book has been opened and unsealed. (p. 328; see also Apr. 1, 1960 Watchtower, p. 222).
Only the Scripturally intelligent ones will be allowed to understand the book of Daniel and all the rest of the Bible. (p. 333; see also Apr. 15, 1960 Watchtower, p. 250). >>
From the May 15, 1969 Watchtower:
<<
We should take great delight in examining Daniel's words for our day, feeling especially privileged to understand what Daniel himself could not discern. (p. 296)
Some of Jehovah's servants might discuss with him [Daniel] the contents of the book "Your Will Be Done on Earth," which volume contains a detailed discussion of many of Daniel's prophecies. He will be very interested in learning how his wonderful prophecies worked out, to God's glory. We will be interested in his reactions and rejoice with him in his lot. (p. 308)
Yes, the angel associate of Michael pointed out a great work for the true followers of the Messianic Prince Michael in this "time of the end." Here is the prophecy: "The ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever." (Dan. 12:3) Here, then, is foretold the work for us today. Spiritually intelligent ones must shine with heavenly light. With the good news of the newborn kingdom of God, Jehovah's witnesses have shone like the sun, which lets nothing be concealed from its heat all around the globe. In the midnight darkness of this world we must be like stars of light, to help many more of the "other sheep" turn to righteousness, which is the worship and ministry of the grand God, Jehovah. Living as we do in this "time of the end" since Michael the Great Prince stood up in heaven, we are living in a time more highly favored than that of Daniel. Daniel's book has been opened up. Blessed are those who act in harmony with Daniel's words for our day! (p. 309)
>>
The 1977 book Our Incoming World Government--God's Kingdom said:
<<
We are living in a favored time... the "time of the end." It is the time for increased spiritual enlightenment, for much of the unexplained prophecies of the Holy Bible, including Daniel's prophecy, to be opened up to our minds and hearts. Ours is the time to which the angel pointed forward when he said to Daniel: "And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant." -- Daniel 12:4. (p. 125)
Daniel "could not understand" what he heard, in his day. But we, in this day, in this "time of the end" since 1914, can understand. (p. 132)
>>
So then, according to Dan. 12:3, 4, 10, the "ones having insight" would understand the prophecies that Daniel had been told to seal up, and would make them abundantly known. The book of Daniel itself clearly implies that the "ones having insight" cannot be wrong when they make "abundantly known" the interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel. Since the Watchtower Society's interpretations of Daniel are clearly in error, Jehovah's Witnesses are not the "ones having insight." But as they claim this designation, they must therefore be false teachers, and by their own standard of judgement, false prophets.
As The Watch Tower of May 15, 1930, pages 154-155, said:
<< A true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible... But it may be asked, How are we to know whether one is a true or a false prophet? There are at least three ways by which we can positively decide: (1) If he is a true prophet, his message will come to pass exactly as prophesied. If he is a false prophet, his prophecy will fail to come to pass... The difference between a true and a false prophet is that the one is speaking the word of the Lord and the other is speaking his own dreams and guesses... The true prophet of God today will be telling forth what the Bible teaches, and those things that the Bible tells us are soon to come to pass. He will not be sounding forth man-made theories or guesses, either his own or those of others... In the New Testament, and in our day, the word "prophet" has a thought similar to that of our word "teacher," in the sense of a public expounder. Hence when the term "false prophet" is used, we shall get the correct thought if we think of a false teacher. >>
Because JW leaders claim to be Jehovah's representatives and teach that they speak in his name, they are unarguably teaching false things in God's name--their "own dreams and guesses". They are "sounding forth man-made theories or guesses". Thus, by their own words, they are false teachers and therefore false prophets.
Here we find Arauna continuing to violate the spirit of "do not interpretations belong to God?"
I'm glad to see you admitting that Mommy Watchtower got so much wrong, as shown above. But your claim that "the Bible predicted" these things is of no more import than the many claims of JW leaders that have gone unfilled -- which is ALL of them.
I think that by now you can see that I have done that. I have a lot more information than what I quoted above.
What? They always claimed that Jehovah God guided and directed them to make all their false interpretations and predictions regarding world events.
LOL! Calling all that nonsense "rubbish" would have gotten you disfellowshipped when it was "current light".
You have no idea how satisfying it is to see you arrogantly continuing to proclaim your knowledge of the future based on your personal interpretations of the Bible and world events. Just like all earlier Watchtower predictions failed, so will yours.
Not that I think the world's future is rosy; far from it. Climate change will royally muck up all manner of things in the next several hundred years. I might be wrong -- hopefully I am -- but I suspect that world civilization will collapse of its own excesses before two centuries roll by. Of course, such a collapse has nothing to do with the interpretations of the Bible by JW leaders, since they've already gotten everything wrong.
On that score, surely you're aware that every claim made about events before and after 1914 is wrong. Not a single visible thing that Russell predicted happened. Nothing that Rutherford claimed were proofs of "the time of the end" shortly after 1914 were valid. Nothing claimed by later JW leaders about "the composite sign" is true; if mankind were being killed off by such horrendous disasters, there would have been a drastic population decline between 1914 and today, but population has increased from about 2 billion to about 8 billion. JWs today pretty much ignore all these facts.

Arauna said:
     
Actually I do. I get most of my news from comedy shows like Saturday Night Live, The Tonight Show with Steven Colbert, etc. Far more reliable than plain old cable TV news.
But you're deliberately missing my point: A long history of failed predictions of specific dates for "the end" (1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, 2000) plus a history of generally false predictions, prove that JW leaders have no actual understanding of whatever the Bible really says or of world events. By the same token, neither do you.
Furthermore, you're ignoring the Bible's counsel: "Do not interpretations belong to God?"--Gen. 40:8. These interpretations are not of the Bible itself, but of things going on in the world.
Here you go trying to interpret world events:
Wow, Daniel 11:40 onward. This is a prime example of what I said above.
You might not know this, but at least as far back as the beginning of WWII the Society has been claiming that various political entities constituted the "king of the north" and the "king of the south", and that these would battle each other, culminating in Armageddon. They have never failed to be wrong. For example:
In the 1941 booklet Comfort All That Mourn, the Society identified the "king of the north" as the Axis powers and the "king of the south" as the British Commonwealth. It said:
<<
Now all the world witnesses "the king of the north" and "the king of the south" in the deadly grip of war, to determine which shall rule the world. (p. 15)
The prophecy of Daniel, at the eleventh chapter, proceeds to detail the struggle between "the king of the north" and "the king of the south", and definitely tells of the everlasting end of the totalitarian rule and that the Axis combine, the dictatorial rule, shall soon cease for ever. (p. 16)
While the two kings, "the king of the north" and "the king of the south", engage in the most deadly and destructive war of all time, the God of heaven sets up his kingdom, as Jehovah by his prophecy of Daniel foretold: "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever."--Daniel 2:44. . . During the past few years the Lord has sent forth his servants to bear witness before the people of and concerning his kingdom, and, this done, there shall follow quickly "the battle of that great day of God Almighty", and which will be the greatest tribulation the world will ever have known. . . The power of the Lord at Armageddon, exercised against God's enemies,will put an everlasting end to the "Axis powers" and to all similar powers of wickedness. (pp. 21-22)
>>
Did Armageddon come during the midst of WWII as the Society claimed it would? No. Another failed prediction supposedly based on "the Bible" but was merely among the "dreams and guesses" of false teachers like Fred Franz.
A few years later the 1958 book Your Will Be Done on Earth forgot all about the failed 1941 prediction, and came up with a new raft of predictions about the kings of the north and south. By that time, of course, the cold war was ongoing between the Soviet bloc and the Anglo-American bloc. The book took three chapters to expound on Fred Franz's fanciful interpretations of Daniel, Revelation and so forth. He actually claimed that these kings have existed since Daniel's day! This was ridiculous because he very well that the events of Daniel 11 are supposed to be fulfilled during "the time of the end". Of course, today the Society has given up on nearly all of these idiotic notions. Here are a few things the 1958 book predicted:
<<
The king of the south and the king of the north stand at Armageddon... In the confused fighting between the "two kings" as crazed enemies of Jehovah God and his kingdom, the "kings" will have opportunity and occasion to try out and use their frightful, deadly weapons of all kinds against each other. (p. 297)
Jehovah's angel foretold further aggressions by the Communist king of the north before his end in Armageddon: "And he will stretch forth his hand against some countries, and the land of Egypt will not escape. And he will have control over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the costly things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians will follow at his steps."... How far the king of the north will have got when he reaches his "time of the end" the future alone will tell. But he is predicted to gain control over the treasures of gold, silver and all the precious things of this commercialized, materialistic world, including oil. (pp. 300, 303)
>>
Did any that happen? No. Rather, in 1991 the Soviet bloc collapsed, leaving the Society no "king of the north" to prophesy about.
A handful of years before that collapse, the July 1, 1987 Watchtower more or less repeated the 1958 nonsense. Note these claims:
<<
Many years ago, Jehovah revealed the historical development of events that would lead up to his bringing peace to the earth. Through an angel, he spoke to his faithful prophet Daniel about "the final part of the days," our own time. (Daniel 10:4) He foretold today's superpower rivalry and showed that it will soon end in a way that neither power suspects... (p. 11)
The disposition of the latest king of the north is well described in verses 37, 38 [of Dan. 11]: "And to the God of his fathers he will give no consideration ... But to the god of fortresses, in his position he will give glory; and to a god that his fathers did not know he will give glory by means of gold and by means of silver and by means of precious stone and by means of desirable things." Can anyone fail to recognize this description? Todays king of the north officially promotes atheism, rejecting the religious gods of previous kings of the north. He prefers to trust in armaments, "the god of fortresses."... (pp. 13-14)
So what finally happens between these two kings? The angel says: "And in the time of the end [the end of the history of the two kings] the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing, and against him the king of the north will storm with chariots and with horsemen and with many ships." (Daniel 11:40; Matthew 24:3) Clearly, summit conferences are no solution to the superpower rivalry. The tensions caused by the 'pushing' of the king of the south and the expansionism of the king of the north may go through more or less intense phases; but eventually, in some way, the king of the north will be provoked into the excessively violent action described by Daniel. (p. 14)
>>
The Society has long claimed that those who are of the "anointed class" fulfill Daniel 12:3, 4, which reads, in The New World Translation:
<< And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever. And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant. >>
The Society has long taught that the ones of Jehovah's Witnesses of the "anointed class" are "the ones having insight", as shown by the July 1, 1987, Watchtower, which said, on pages 23-5, under the sub-title "True Knowledge Will Become Abundant":
<<
But for those who remain faithful, the prophecy says: "And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever." (Daniel 12:3) "The ones having insight" are clearly the faithful remaining members of the anointed Christian congregation, who are 'filled with accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension.'... Ever since 1919, though 'darkness itself covers the earth, and thick gloom the national groups,' they have been "shining as illuminators" among mankind. (Isaiah 60:2; Philippians 2:15; Matthew 5:14-16) They "shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." -- Matthew 13:43.
How do they prove to be "those who are bringing the many to righteousness"? (Daniel 12:3) Thanks to their faithful witnessing, the final ones of spiritual Israel have been gathered in and declared righteous for life in the heavens. Additionally, a great crowd of "other sheep" has manifested itself, flocking to the light from Jehovah as reflected by 'Daniel's people.'...
The angel then offers words of counsel to Daniel: "And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant." (Daniel 12:4) These words arrest our attention. Although the angel's prophecy concerning the two kings began to be fulfilled some 2,300 years ago, the understanding of it has been opened up primarily during "the time of the end," particularly since 1919. In these days, "many ... rove about" in the Bible, and true knowledge has indeed become abundant. Now is the time that Jehovah has given knowledge to understanding ones...
Stay close, then, to "the ones having insight," who are 'shining like the brightness of the expanse.'
>>
The above means that during "the time of the end", true knowledge would become abundant due to teaching by "the ones having insight." This would especially include understanding the book of Daniel itself, since Dan. 12:9-10 says:
<< And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end... And the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly, and no wicked ones at all will understand; but the ones having insight will understand." >>
Clearly, then, by the Society's own teachings, which include that we are now in "the time of the end", JW leaders obviously do not understand Daniel and so are not among "the ones having insight" but among "the wicked ones".
Alternatively, we are not in "the time of the end", which reveals another huge raft of false claims by JW leaders.
The above-quoted passages from JW publications are not unique in claiming that JW leaders are "the ones having insight" into Daniel's prophecies and world events:
<< To us in this "time of the end" Daniel's book has been opened and unsealed. (p. 328; see also Apr. 1, 1960 Watchtower, p. 222).
Only the Scripturally intelligent ones will be allowed to understand the book of Daniel and all the rest of the Bible. (p. 333; see also Apr. 15, 1960 Watchtower, p. 250). >>
From the May 15, 1969 Watchtower:
<<
We should take great delight in examining Daniel's words for our day, feeling especially privileged to understand what Daniel himself could not discern. (p. 296)
Some of Jehovah's servants might discuss with him [Daniel] the contents of the book "Your Will Be Done on Earth," which volume contains a detailed discussion of many of Daniel's prophecies. He will be very interested in learning how his wonderful prophecies worked out, to God's glory. We will be interested in his reactions and rejoice with him in his lot. (p. 308)
Yes, the angel associate of Michael pointed out a great work for the true followers of the Messianic Prince Michael in this "time of the end." Here is the prophecy: "The ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever." (Dan. 12:3) Here, then, is foretold the work for us today. Spiritually intelligent ones must shine with heavenly light. With the good news of the newborn kingdom of God, Jehovah's witnesses have shone like the sun, which lets nothing be concealed from its heat all around the globe. In the midnight darkness of this world we must be like stars of light, to help many more of the "other sheep" turn to righteousness, which is the worship and ministry of the grand God, Jehovah. Living as we do in this "time of the end" since Michael the Great Prince stood up in heaven, we are living in a time more highly favored than that of Daniel. Daniel's book has been opened up. Blessed are those who act in harmony with Daniel's words for our day! (p. 309)
>>
The 1977 book Our Incoming World Government--God's Kingdom said:
<<
We are living in a favored time... the "time of the end." It is the time for increased spiritual enlightenment, for much of the unexplained prophecies of the Holy Bible, including Daniel's prophecy, to be opened up to our minds and hearts. Ours is the time to which the angel pointed forward when he said to Daniel: "And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant." -- Daniel 12:4. (p. 125)
Daniel "could not understand" what he heard, in his day. But we, in this day, in this "time of the end" since 1914, can understand. (p. 132)
>>
So then, according to Dan. 12:3, 4, 10, the "ones having insight" would understand the prophecies that Daniel had been told to seal up, and would make them abundantly known. The book of Daniel itself clearly implies that the "ones having insight" cannot be wrong when they make "abundantly known" the interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel. Since the Watchtower Society's interpretations of Daniel are clearly in error, Jehovah's Witnesses are not the "ones having insight." But as they claim this designation, they must therefore be false teachers, and by their own standard of judgement, false prophets.
As The Watch Tower of May 15, 1930, pages 154-155, said:
<< A true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible... But it may be asked, How are we to know whether one is a true or a false prophet? There are at least three ways by which we can positively decide: (1) If he is a true prophet, his message will come to pass exactly as prophesied. If he is a false prophet, his prophecy will fail to come to pass... The difference between a true and a false prophet is that the one is speaking the word of the Lord and the other is speaking his own dreams and guesses... The true prophet of God today will be telling forth what the Bible teaches, and those things that the Bible tells us are soon to come to pass. He will not be sounding forth man-made theories or guesses, either his own or those of others... In the New Testament, and in our day, the word "prophet" has a thought similar to that of our word "teacher," in the sense of a public expounder. Hence when the term "false prophet" is used, we shall get the correct thought if we think of a false teacher. >>
Because JW leaders claim to be Jehovah's representatives and teach that they speak in his name, they are unarguably teaching false things in God's name--their "own dreams and guesses". They are "sounding forth man-made theories or guesses". Thus, by their own words, they are false teachers and therefore false prophets.
Here we find Arauna continuing to violate the spirit of "do not interpretations belong to God?"
I'm glad to see you admitting that Mommy Watchtower got so much wrong, as shown above. But your claim that "the Bible predicted" these things is of no more import than the many claims of JW leaders that have gone unfilled -- which is ALL of them.
I think that by now you can see that I have done that. I have a lot more information than what I quoted above.
What? They always claimed that Jehovah God guided and directed them to make all their false interpretations and predictions regarding world events.
LOL! Calling all that nonsense "rubbish" would have gotten you disfellowshipped when it was "current light".
You have no idea how satisfying it is to see you arrogantly continuing to proclaim your knowledge of the future based on your personal interpretations of the Bible and world events. Just like all earlier Watchtower predictions failed, so will yours.
Not that I think the world's future is rosy; far from it. Climate change will royally muck up all manner of things in the next several hundred years. I might be wrong -- hopefully I am -- but I suspect that world civilization will collapse of its own excesses before two centuries roll by. Of course, such a collapse has nothing to do with the interpretations of the Bible by JW leaders, since they've already gotten everything wrong.
On that score, surely you're aware that every claim made about events before and after 1914 is wrong. Not a single visible thing that Russell predicted happened. Nothing that Rutherford claimed were proofs of "the time of the end" shortly after 1914 were valid. Nothing claimed by later JW leaders about "the composite sign" is true; if mankind were being killed off by such horrendous disasters, there would have been a drastic population decline between 1914 and today, but population has increased from about 2 billion to about 8 billion. JWs today pretty much ignore all these facts.

Like I said, no actual information content. Just bald opinions.

In the name of fairness - (I know you said you do not care..).... but what this indicates is that the problem is everywhere where there are children.  While JWs  managed the problem better than most other institutions we nevertheless did fail some victims.   People just judge too quickly and do not understand the complexities if dealing with this problem. In some families the mother does not believe her own children because the horror of it is too great!  It is easy to only judge JWs and expect them to be absolutely perfect.  
Now, I do not really care if GB is inspired or not.  Over the past few years my understanding of the scriptures has refined very much because I do the research and prepare for all my meetings.  Their study program helps me....
We WILL face persecution during Armageddon..... so why will I not cooperate with GB?   Whatever we do - if we belong to christ - we will face tribulation.  Better to be with friends in jail (who can support me) than alone somewhere  of my own choice.  Experience has taught me that numbers work better for protection and cooperation always brings benefits.....
 

No, it's using the 'err' word as an excuse to tell lies. And I do wish I could find the quote whereby it seems that the GB say its ok to tell lies as it's 'Spiritual Warfare'.  @JW Insider will probs tell me I've got that quote wrong as well.  
Quote @JW Insider  " I agree that there should be a way to provide constructive criticism that isn't immediately seen as a kind of "running ahead" of the organization. "
Surely the whole point is, that the Bible Students, GB, Watchtower, JW Org, have been RUNNING AHEAD of CHRIST or GOD ?
Otherwise would not at least some of their 'predictions' have come true. 
 
@TrueTomHarley    Quote ".. that were like when you miss the nail with the hammer, and in frustration, swing several times more, again missing each time. "
Wow now that shows spiritual guidance, doesn't it ?  

@Arauna  But your quote, which I highlighted in red, proves that the earlier, Bible Students / Russell, were not guided by Almighty God's holy spirit, AND also proves that your GB / JW Org are not guided by Almighty God's holy spirit. 
As for sports clubs / organisations closing down due to heavy fines or loss of membership, due to CSA within them. I don't care. I am no part of this world, so why would I care ? 
Quote "But as usual - the press will only single us out even though the injustice was not "planned" or tolerated."
You know that isn't true. The ARC wasn't set up to deal with JW CSA was it ?   Earthwide governments / official bodies etc are being set up to look into most religions, and all other places where children are possibly being abused.  It is not just the JW Org. 
JW Org is singled out on here for the obvious reason that this is a JW org forum. 
Quote "There is nothing wrong with not having the full picture or making a mistake "   
BUT, it would be so nice, so honest in fact, IF the GB would say that they DON'T KNOW' rather that 'making a mistake' / telling lies.. 
Sometimes, when my children would ask me a question, I would have to answer that I didn't know.  My children looked to me for answers. Some questions I could not answer. But I had the honesty to tell them 'I don't know'. 
Now if the GB were only humble enough to say 'I don't know'  when they were asked some important questions. If the GB and their Writing Dept' were only honest enough not to make up things when they 'do not know'.   The GB make themselves as bait for criticism due to 'mistakes' and dishonesty. 
One last quote here " We cannot remain in the truth without his spirit. " 
The Watchtower / JW org  has misused this word 'Truth' as a gimmick, a trick, a sly misguiding. 
Because truth actually means truth.  And TRUTH is in God's written word which never changes. But the 'beliefs / teachings' of the GB and it's Org constantly change.  
 
 
 

Then you should have no trouble explaining exactly what in the referenced posts are not rubbish or an idiotic attempt at humor.
No one will be holding his breath.
I'm not surprised about TTH.
I don't know about Arauna having OCD; I chalk it up to too long spent in an arrogant, brain-deadening cult.

JW Insider said:
Good!
Correct. Remember that "messiah" and "christ" mean "anointed one", meaning "anointed by God". The term does not apply just to Jesus Christ, or even to someone claiming to be Jesus Christ returned, but to anyone claiming to be anointed by God.
        
You're confusing two separate ideas. There is nothing scripturally wrong with expecting and hoping for "the end" to come soon. But predicting a specific time period for "the end" is a different kettle of fish. I need not repeat the many warnings given in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 against trying to predict "the end"; they're clear enough on their own.
Therefore predicting a specific date or narrow window of time is grossly unscriptural. Otherwise, what do the scriptural warnings mean?
Well, there is a lot that can be said about Revelation. What did John mean by "near"? If we say, "within a couple of decades", then Revelation can be dismissed as the ravings of a lunatic. If we say, "we don't know but we believe John was inspired", then it must mean "several thousand years". But that is extremely problematic since several thousand years is not "near" in any meaningful sense. One is then forced to interpret "near" in the virtually meaningless sense of "an unknown time in the future". And the meaning of "near" in Luke 21 is obviously not that.
The Society itself explained the "I am he" one and only one time, in the Nov. 1, 1964 Watchtower (p. 645). After some commentary it said:
<< The combined testimony of these faithful witnesses pointed to danger from within the ranks of professed Christians. The peril would be not so much from the openly avowed opponents of Christ as from those who would rise up claiming to be Christ or claiming to exercise the rights and prerogatives of Christ as his empowered representatives. >>
Now, who today among Jehovah's Witnesses claims "the rights and prerogatives of Christ as his empowered representatives"? The Governing Body. Therefore, by the Society's own argumentation, the GB is saying "I am he". Case closed.
 
Posted 8 minutes ago
That meaning is consistent with the Society's argument in the 1964 Watchtower: "Christ's empowered representatives".
Which is exactly why Russell and his successors must be among the ones that Luke 21:8 says not to follow.
Further titles were "The Kingdom Is At Hand", "The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years", "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached", etc.
All of this is so obvious that Albert Schroeder immediately realized its import, and almost panicked. This caused him to deny that the Bible applies to Jehovah's Witnesses. Otherwise he would have had to admit that the JW organization is fundamentally at odds with Jesus' teaching.

In the thread Eight Governing Body etc on page 21, Anna asked me to post the following on a new thread. So here we go.
Governing Body Member Albert Schroeder Denies the Bible Applies to Jehovah's Witnesses
Consider the Bible passage at Luke 21:5-8:
<< 5 Later, when some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned with fine stones and dedicated things, 6 he said: “As for these things that you now see, the days will come when not a stone will be left upon a stone and not be thrown down.” 7 Then they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these things are to occur?” 8 He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them. >>
The important part here is verse 8. According to most Bible commentaries, and the Society itself, the phrase 'I am he' means "I am someone important, someone to be listened to, someone with authority from Jesus and God to represent them". That obviously includes JW leaders since they directly claim to be Jehovah's representatives. The next part of the verse mentions such people as saying ‘The due time is near’ which obviously refers back to the time when "these things are to occur". Jesus, then, was warning his listeners that if they hear such persons claiming to represent God, and claiming that the due time for 'the end' is near, they should not go after them. Since this perfectly describes what JW leaders have done throughout their history and continue to do, it is obvious that Jesus himself said not to follow them.
In 1994 I had a phone conversation with GB member Albert Schroeder about his failure to follow up on some things he had promised to do. After he said he was reneging on his promise, I decided to challenge him with a question about Luke 21:5-8. I asked him, What do you think that passage means? He got out his NWT and read it out loud. After finishing verse 8, he was unable to speak. After a minute or so, I said, "Well? What does this mean with respect to applying it to JW teaching about the end?" After another two minutes or so of dead silence, he said, "It can't apply to us, because we're God's people!" Of course, you can imagine my reaction.
In 2009 I found myself living temporarily in Utah, in Mormon country. One Saturday morning a lone JW, a man of about 70, came to our door. After some pleasantries where we identified ourselves as ex-JWs, I challenged him with Luke 21:5-8 and asked him the same thing I did with Schroeder. He was silent for a bit, and then said that he understood what the passage meant, so I asked him if he intended to remain a JW, given that his Lord Jesus Christ specifically said "do not follow them". He said that he had been a JW all his life and was too old to change. Perfectly understandable, of course, but also perfectly unchristian.

Arauna said:
<< As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized... Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human perfection. >> -- Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920 Edition, pp. 89-90.
<< Based upon the argument heretofore set forth, then, that the old order of things, the old world, is ending and is therefore passing away, and that the new order is coming in, and that 1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies of old and the beginning of reconstruction, it is reasonable to conclude that millions of people now on the earth will be still on the earth in 1925. Then, based upon the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die. >> -- Millions, p. 97.
<< We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925.
It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need?
Using this same measuring line ... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914. The fact that all the things that some looked for in 1914 did not materialize does not alter the chronology one whit. Noting the date marked so prominently, it is very easy for the finite mind to conclude that all the work to be done must center about it, and thus many are inclined to anticipate more than has been really foretold. Thus it was in 1844, in 1874, in 1878 as well as in 1914 and 1918. Looking back we can now easily see that those dates were clearly indicated in Scripture and doubtless intended by the Lord to encourage his people, as they did, as well as to be a means of testing and sifting when all that some expected did not come to pass. That all that some expect to see in 1925 may not transpire that year will not alter the date one whit more than in the other cases. >> -- May 15, 1922 Watch Tower.
J. F. Rutherford later admitted to the Bethel family about his failed prediction, "I know I made an ass of myself."
<< Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon. >> -- The Watchtower, September 15, 1941, p. 288, regarding the distribution of the book Children.
Article "Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?" -- The Watchtower, August 15, 1968.
<< The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century. >> -- The Watchtower, January 1, 1989, original edition, p. 12.

AlanF quoted J. F. Rutherford:
If you had any brains you'd see that Arauna made a prediction that the world will end Real Soon Now, and that my various quotes such as the above showed how the Watchtower Society has made many false predictions of "the end", such as for 1925. Like Mommy like daughter.
And if you had any integrity you'd not have chopped off "1925" from my quote. You're now actually stooping to deliberate misquoting to make a point. Like Mommy like son.