2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The way that disfellowshipping is handled today has only one purpose ... to maintain the powers structure of the Governing Body.

If a person was disfellowshipped for being right ... he is NOT automatically reinstated ... the fact that he was right makes his crime ESPECIALLY grievous.

From an outsider standpoint of view, it would seem difficult to comprehend why God is patient. To a JW, it is as simple as understanding the structure in scripture. Therefore, the posted question is too conflicting to its meaning.

*** ws18 August p. 27 Patience—Endurance With a Purpose ***

We all want the new world to come as soon as possible. But we learn to be more patient when we think about how patient Jehovah has been with us. The Bible assures us: “Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) So when we think about Jehovah’s patience with us, we will also be more patient with others. (Romans 2:4) What are some situations where we need to be patient?

Now, if you have a better reference from any other God other than the true God of Israel, I will be happy to review your evidence. Since the purpose of disfellowshipping is to keep the congregation clean. Therefore as the above subscribes, showing repentance is the key. Can someone simply say, I’m sorry, and then everything is forgiven? Can you do that in a court of law? Can someone simply tell the Judge, I’m sorry I hurt that person because I needed drugs so badly, and the Judge releases that person out of the goodness of his heart. How far are you willing to exasperate the question?

*** w16 November p. 12 Organized in Harmony With God’s Own Book ***

MAINTAIN CLEANNESS, PEACE, AND UNITY

¹⁴ We can contribute to the spiritual cleanness of the congregation by following the direction found in God’s Word. Consider the situation in ancient Corinth. Paul had poured himself out preaching in that city, and he loved his fellow “holy ones” there. (1 Cor. 1:1, 2) But how troubling it must have been for him to have to address the problem of sexual immorality that was being tolerated in that congregation! Paul directed the elders to hand the immoral man over to Satan—in other words, to disfellowship him. To preserve the congregation’s purity, the elders needed to clear out the “leaven.” (1 Cor. 5:1, 5-7, 12) When we support the elders’ decision to disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer, we help to maintain the cleanness of the congregation and perhaps move the person to repent and seek Jehovah’s forgiveness

In this world, everyone who is guilty is innocent. That's what they want people to think. Are there innocent people? maybe in a real court of law. Does that mean a judicial committee holds the same standards as an outside court of law? NO! the Elders are there to see if unchristian conduct deserves having a person disfellowshipped. If the conduct goes beyond a judicial committee's capability? the affected party is duly notified to seek legal compensation through due process.

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The problem is, that Grey Reformer is too lacking in general knowledge of what has been going on around him (or her) to reform anything.

How about that. You took the words right out of my mouth. Before anyone can honestly criticize someone’s doctrine, they need to understand the principles of scripture. Perhaps, “James” will eventually learn scripture the correct way, by not making erroneous claims that can be corrected by true Bible knowledge.

If you did, you would understand the context of Matthew 5:3-12 with the emphasis on verses 10-11. Something Jehovah Witnesses have endured and will continue to endure from hostile sources.

So, let’s bring back the posted question without further deviation from someone’s personal opinion on other matters.

34 minutes ago, Witness said:

I will let the Watchtower's hypocritical teachings answer it for you. 

Since you were absolute about your comment, I was hoping to see some concrete evidence on your claim. It turns out to be bluster from the opposition. Let me know when your guardian angel decides to let you in on God’s plans, directly.

Meanwhile, when submitting proof. It would be well advised to understand the context.

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

Where to start.  

Who are the anointed ones, and why must they obey those not anointed - the elder body?  

You mentioned the Watchtower is not spirit directed. I’m not after your personal opinion, show me the proof. So, start from there. I will be no more than happy to review your submission.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Please tell me how this accomplished.  To think that the organization is spirit-directed belittles God's power in light of its failed teachings.  You do realize there are a plethora of failed teachings, don’t you?

Is God and Jesus too weak to provide direction with clarity?  Are they responsible for the vagueness in teachings that are the historical trademark of the organization?

Then, can you kindly prove this organization is not spirit directed since you seem to be absolute with your remark? Many religions believe in the same. Does that mean none are? Are you suggesting you are? Even though you seem to break Jesus commandments of love, and causing strife? It appears, that you are above God’s law to make such a statement.

How can one person believe in one thing, while doing the contrary? Maybe, while making comments that can’t possibly be appreciated by any Christian, there could be a more practical relation to the truth.

Either way, please provide this overwhelming evidence you seem to have, that the Watchtower is not spirit directed. I would enjoy seeing such proof.

As for secrecy. Other than former witnesses and present outsiders that make such false claims, please proved proof that Elders judicial system is done in secret, even though the congregation is eventually made aware of, peoples Christian conduct, and how the ARC was able to receive documents from the branch office by the congregation Elders. Perhaps, you might not understand the meaning of the word secret.

17 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Yes, but Ray Franz left behind two very detailed biographies of his experiences and observations .... which at least one is available on Amazon.com, or, with a little searching, you might be able to get either or both off the Internet for free in PDF or EPUB format. 

What does that prove, if his views were wrong? Are Witnesses supposed to follow a wrong instrument of God’s Truth?

9 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I can turn my eyes heavenward and at 37,000 feet, watch as a Boeing 767 takes a GB member to a European Assembly in Business Class seating at about $11,000 a ticket.

There is a purpose for the GB to fulfill God’s promise to humanity, what is yours as an outsider. The day, God chooses you as his representative, you too can fly on an $11,000 dollar ticket, since it would be proving your worth to God. Although, there might be an exaggeration when flying coach.

14 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

This is true at the GB level ... except for Ray Franz .... who WAS disfellowshipped, for having lunch with his landlord and employer, back in his home town, and recalled from his" sick bed" to Bethel to be interrogated.

I don’t recall, with your implication, when the Watchtower used Gestapo tactics. However, it wouldn’t have mattered, since Ray took his error in understanding to his grave.

Although if you have proof of such atrocities by the Watchtower, feel free to post them.

I wonder how many Catholic churches allow for the teachings of Sharia Law. So, let me know when the Watchtower starts to use waterboarding.

That depends on what you mean, new light. 1914 stands as it always has. Therefore, no one that I can think of has been disfellowshipped for an error in their of opinion they might have. There are former witnesses that have challenged the Watchtower doctrine by authorship and have been disfellowshipped, but only at a cost of them being wrong in their understanding.

However, the Watchtower is run by God’s Holy Spirit, not individual men as many former witnesses now contend, regardless of how that view is made by obscured opinions.

This forum doesn’t need to close. Although it should change their platform of hatred to one single religion, even though they have many listed. The majority of questionable remarks are dealt with in, one organization.

Thus, this forum will soon learn to either adapt to the way humanity is moving from these internet personal attacks, or the government will soon impose penalties, or have them removed by whichever company carries their business.

Amazon, Go-Daddy, Google, Twitter, Facebook, etc.

Also, those regular bloggers that contribute to this hatred, and misinformation, that redirect this traffic to their websites will soon be out of a job. That extra income to subside their lavish life’s styles by blood guilt will come to an end. So, no more European vacations.

43 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

That wasn't me. It was someone else who gave the tip about the TOR browser. Also, it's much better to just recognize that there is no such thing as perfect anonymity. The TOR browser, for all we know, is promoted surreptitiously by government agencies because of their own ability to exploit weaknesses in it while tempting people to use it for dishonest and nefarious purposes. Better to just be honest and know that all things hidden can easily come to light.

I thought you are the one that wrote it. Is there another JWinsider?

Au contraire Mon frère. Anyone really wanting anonymity can achieve it. That’s why hackers seldom get caught. But, those trying not to hide, are easily detected. Just like, from Virginia to Seattle Washington Amazon to Virginia, and Florida. There must be a lot of doubt and speculation in your life.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

You seem to have implied that those provided links to Columbia Journalism Review (CJR) and Wikipedia would have supported your claim but they didn't. CJR did discuss the faults and business mistakes of the previous ownership and the typical lurid links of their online outlet, Philly.com. Still nothing about sensationalism without verification, however.

Your comment only proves there can be a difference of opinion. Just like there were some critics of the newspaper before it went online.

Sensationalism and propaganda sell. It should be obvious as to the usage here. How did Trump win the presidency if not through lies as he has done with all his business endeavors?

By the way, thanks for that tip about TOR browser. I started using it. I didn’t know there were unethical spies in our organization.

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I'll take a chance here. Srecko posts a Philly article damning to Jehovah's Witnesses. (though it has nothing to do with the thread - my thread)

I would say, dig deeper into the news source. Now, I’m not suggesting to have cryptic messages within your fellow writers, since there is no critique in grammar for other participants in this forum. Just saying.

https://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/inquirer-daily-news-paywall-philly.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Media_Network

With the old owner, sensationalism without verification was the norm.

13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I didn't notice that until now.

I think anyone can go off on hysteria? However, does anyone know what dot, dot, dash, dash, mean? Between friends, it can mean many things. There is a superficial need to know the identity of those who reject the arguments made here. What a crowd. LOL!!

the word assume makes it very clear!!!

The topic posted:

Let us Appreciate Brother Lett

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I disagree. Jesus "framework" is/are interpreted many times by many people or organizations as how they see how would Jesus do this or that.

To sum it up. The one that governs the body of Jehovah’s witnesses is the inspired word of God. The GB doesn’t have anything to do with the framework Christ started, other than obeying God’s and Christ commands. They don’t add on as the general public of former witnesses speculates. If this is too difficult to understand, then the arguments you personally make are simply conjecture.

So, this will conclude our conversation on this matter, and return to the topic at hand.

There is no greater authority than that of God and Christ. That makes even more valuable and has a greater appreciation for the gospel of Christ. 1 Peter 2:21 which the GB intuitively do.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

My opinion is not of some importance now. It is more important how WT define it and how some of people who participate in this forum as WT defender, are not  in harmony /unity, obeying) what GB told them, instructing and teaching. Let see what i found in JW publications.

Then you will notice, the Watchtower has the same framework as Jesus did, to separate church from state. So, it is not what the GB is saying, it is what scripture is saying. The majority of former witnesses fail to make that distinction.  As for the trolling, from everyone here, that’s to be expected. There’s only one cure. The moral fiber of some is zero.

59 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I don’t, want to dump, on, the Church, but when I, stopped in,at, the office to, explain. my mission regarding, Celeste, staff assured me, that Father, so-and-so was an absolutely, wonderful man, who would. of course, help  Do, you know. that, he never got back to, me?

How superficial people can be when they plainly have something wrong. If JWinsider would expose his failure with the IP address, it would shed some light on that narrative. If grammar is a problem, then I believe when using, grammar correction software, you will find you all fail. It seems there are many trolls at play, not just one.

1 minute ago, AllenSmith34 said:

Hello, Grey Reformer. Thanks, but this idea of multiple accounts has been going on for years. I welcome you aboard the ALLEN wagon to the truth, that sets people free

Hello,

I have no problem speaking the truth. You are the very few that sets the standard when it comes to intellect and understanding. I thought it was a trick at first, but now, it's just a false perception by that individual.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Allen, I noticed that the IP address for "Gray Reformer" did indeed resolve to Canada, but only up until today. As of today it no longer resolves to Canada but to some other place. Just thought you might like to know that.

I don't know Allen other than the truth he brings to this forum. But, thanks for believing I also bring the truth to this site. ?

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Allen, I noticed that the IP address for "Gray Reformer" did indeed resolve to Canada, but only up until today. As of today it no longer resolves to Canada but to some other place. Just thought you might like to know that.

I don't know Allen other than the truth he brings to this forum. But, thanks for believing I also bring the truth to this site. ?

26 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

To be brief, nowhere does it state on the Jehovah's Witnesses behalf that 1975 is the end of the World, and with the information at hand, we can see that the difference between JWs and their opposites, only one side is telling the truth. 1975, however, was in regards of being vigilant, granted the whole 6,000 of creation since Adam.

That would be correct. Witnesses that understood knew well enough not to speculate. Commonsense, should dictate, that if God wanted? He could end this system and bring judgment day, anytime he wishes. But, there is a purpose for a timeline. To give every person a chance to repent, thus saving their mortal soul to the last possible moment of human existence as we know it, and live it.

26 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I do not converse with such characters, though I do announce to them. He said that he assumes I have JW friends and family that I would lose were it discovered that I had "chatted' (his innacurate word) with him. I replied that 'You know what they say about assuming.'

Enough said, thank you.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please all who have magazines and publication that are quoted here to send me confirmation about authenticity.  

Thank you for proving my point. Not having the proper context by your submission is exactly what I am referring to.

Some zealous individuals, especially, those remaining from the Bible Student era, concluded that the 6000 years that ended in 1975 by the Watchtower estimation, would be a time to rejoice as a possible or probable time for Armageddon, even though the Watchtower clearly proposed it’s intention about the 6000 years ending in 1975, not Armageddon. That movement actually started in the North, here in Canada.

The best thing for this is to read those articles in there totality, and not assume, as many have done in the past, plus other articles that determine that point, that actually defined that moment in time. It was an exciting time indeed, for those that actually lived through it.

Just keep in mind to read the original copy, not those in questionable sites that add words, or at times cut and paste the wrong information. There are audible out there that profess to illustrate, even the President of the Watchtower mentioned it. A good example of audible manipulation.

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I was there, and paying attention.

I know better.

Then you must be part of that group that read between the lines (tea leaves) and only paid attention to rumors rather than what the Watchtower message was actually conveying.

The fact that you would mention being there as though your words are golden? Doesn’t prove a thing. I would say, many former witnesses say the same thing with various misleading publications. Some posted here without the proper context. Many of us were around back then. When 5 people, see the same accident? you eventually get different stories. This is why there are investigators to sort that information out, to get to the truth. This is where the investigator separates facts from fiction. Undoubtedly, something that can't see said here with reasoning.

14 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Heh, JW letters was addressed to Russian Government, Mr Putin, Medvedev and all other political characters that are in "position to changed" Court decisions. So, how can you considered that as Neutral colored letters? When involved at least two parts of governing,  political and judicial power. 

How do you define Christian Activism, Political Activism, and Civil disobedience?

What you're implying is what? That, Jehovah’s Witnesses send their letters to the Orthodox Church? At some point, making sense reflects upon the one making the argument.

Just like in 1975. It was a self-inflicted incident perpetrated by overzealous individuals that misunderstood the Watchtower message. Therefore, there was NO! Test of faith within the organization. However, there are still confused individuals that continue to mislead the public just as any former witness does to continue a known conspiracy theory. So, there is no need to defend the Watchtower with occurrences that were out of their control.