Dmitar

@xero There is no reason to be rude with your reply. No one here should have to be rude or obnoxious when posting.

It would be beneficial for you to understand Paul's words to the church of Christ. I would imagine, this applies to all Christian Churches that are disparaged by former members. Then you no longer service God as a Christian. Have you transformed to Atheism or Agnosticism? A person without faith cannot be a Christian. That's the point of having faith. The Body is a temple. A person without faith in God is an empty vessel. A person saying he/she believes in God with an empty vessel, is just that, an empty person with an inner belief. How would that be received by God, when he asks of us to accept his commands. An Organization is there, like the Church of Christ was to the early Christians, to unite in faith. To become one with God by faith as a united people, spiritual people, not just to be one with God. That would be selfish. There is strength in numbers. Those sheep need a Shepherd. Jesus is the head of those Shepherds and sheep, as he was with the apostles. Those apostles commissioned others to continue their work that Jesus had started. Paul was one of those members not originally commissioned with the 12 apostles, but later. He was no less of an apostle than the original 12 apostles, just like the 70 Jesus commissioned to help the apostles. Not all would become Saints(Kings) Helpers of Christ. Yet the message needed to continue. The Bible speaks of future application of Christ words. Yes, the message was lost for a longtime. God's Holy Spirit saw the inspiration that made its way to reignite that lost message. We should Thank YHWH for that. The manner it was reignited is not important, just that it was. Now it's up to those faithful servants to continue Christs work.

If scripture gives Christians a personal admonition, such a Paul did? Are you suggesting a Christian shouldn't comply just because that person was a member? How does that square with God, and the scriptural application of 1 Corinthians 5:10-12, Ephesians 5:11-13. Of course, Paul was referring to members inside the church, not outside. Immoral can be expanded by many variations. Dissociation is also part of that admonition. Does your open church have the same doctrine?

It appears your defense of a regime is comprised with earthly politics. Once again, is this something Jehovah Witnesses do? Or can it be, you have a more personal attachment like a relative that deals with China and you wish not to harm that relationship by providing, false reports. Only false religions with political aspirations are attached to the beast. Therefore, it appears, at least here, your organization is part of that dominion.

@JW Insider Question. Are all Jehovah's Witnesses consumed with the politics of a nation, they are willing to defend that corrupt nation? If so, why? Can you give me a bible example? You also seem to imply, all reports of China's Human Rights violations are false. Are you paid to defend that nation? https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/g7-condemns-human-rights-violations-against-uyghurs-in-china/ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55794071 https://humanrights-ev.com/increasing-human-rights-violations-in-the-uyghur-region/ https://borgenproject.org/chinas-human-rights-violations/ https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang https://www.mei.edu/publications/standing-china-human-rights-case-uyghurs https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/global https://borgenproject.org/human-rights-violations-in-china/ https://www.hrichina.org/en

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/when-herbivores-arent-poor-chicken-got-eaten-cow-180951115/#:~:text=Lal the cow’s behaviour might be motivated by,of behaviour that we’re only beginning to document. Do cows ever eat meat? Herbivores eat plants and carnivores eat meat, and then there are a few oddball omnivores that eat both. Cows are probably the best-known ruminants (and have been witnessed eating birds). Yet even animals from this highly plant-specialized group will eat meat when given the chance. The answer you seem to draw your remark from is with the word accidental. This just means, as you imply, low IQ when it comes to not understanding a simple question. However, I noticed you draw your strength from being rude and obnoxious. Is this a Jehovah Witness trait? Or have you recently be removed from that organization you adamantly disparage to a point, you don't care what people think of your organization. Is this your intent?

Since the topic seems to relate to a biblical event, you would think it's best looked at through the eyes of scripture. Archorolgy has a different approach. Therefore, scripture can be found. Perhaps not to anyone's satisfaction here, but it can be applied. I don't consider anyone disparaging their own faith loyal. However, that would be for a different topic. I also don't see where it would make a difference on this topic.

Final note for the interested. Who is taking the lead and is more prominent and vocal in today’s societies across the world? False Jews, Apostates In this church they are warned about “those” who claim that they are Jews but are not. We don't think this is warning us about literal Jews, but it’s about those who claim to be God’s people (false Christians). The temple and the Jewish nation had already been destroyed by this time, which would help to prove that these Jews should be looked at as spiritual Jews or Christians, just as we see in Rev Chapter 7. The Christian church, early on replaced literal Jews as God’s people, after they had rejected Christ. It was only those who were God’s people in their hearts, and who had faith in the blood of Christ, that were truly Jews, God had rejected the literal nation of the Jews. Even natural born Jews were not true Jews in God’s sight, unless they were Jews in their heart. They will receive favor again in the next age but they will have to say blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord. Rom 2:28-29) 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. (NAU) Gal 3:6-7) 6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

@Arauna @Witness How could this impasse be clarified? It appears there is something to be said about both books of Daniel and Revelation. Since both books deal with a period of reign of the Anti-Christ, and the persecution of the true church, how is it determined by scripture how the “gentile” nations will confront God’s people. Are there similarities by which the natural Jew was subjected to, that a spiritual Jew cannot? By Jew of course I mean the nation of Israel, by its old covenant and its new covenant. 1. The Beast, heads, and horns (Dan. 7:1-28), (Rev. 13:1; 17:3, 7), (Rev. 13:11). What are the characteristics concerning their visions which indicate that God was showing each of them different aspects of the same kings and kingdoms related to Gentile dominion throughout history and the final form of Gentile power at the return of Messiah? (Dan. 7:13-14, 26-27; (Rev. 19:11-20). Who are these gentile nations? Anyone that is not a Jew is a gentile. Then what part will the U.N. play in this world of Gentiles? Can it be the single most difficult aspect for interpreters of passages involving the beasts, heads, and horns are accounting for their differences while at the same time appreciating their similarities. In various passages, (Dan. 7:14, 24; (Rev. 17:10) all three symbols—beasts, heads, and horns—are said to be “kings” and sometimes kings represent sequential rulers. At times, it can be contemporaneous kings within a single kingdom (Dan. 7:6; 8:8; Rev. 17:10). Now let’s speak of the influence of the church. At some point, there will be a cooperative effort between established and prominent churches with States. Russia and the Orthodox church are a good example. The Catholic Faith making a political difference. What is the Status-quo to resist the establishment of God’s Kingdom? Another example would be the influence the Catholic Church had to imprison the leaders of the Watchtower Society. *** sl chap. 3 p. 32 par. 7 A Transformed Messiah with Whom Politicians Must Cope *** 7 In considering the above-expressed Jewish opinion as to the identity of “my servant,” we are obliged to ask, Who today or where today is what Dr. Slotki calls “the ideal Israel”? Is it to be found in this generation of natural Jews that has survived the regime of the Nazi dictator Hitler in Europe and Communist oppressions and that yet number some 14,443,925? Do we find the “ideal Israel” or that “servant” of the Most High God in the present-day Republic of Israel, particularly its Jewish population that controls the political government? What Jew, either of the Orthodox religious section or of the Reform religious section, sees in all Jewry or any part of Jewry today “the ideal Israel,” over 2,700 years after the giving of the prophecy of Isaiah? So they have no proof at all that the “servant” of Isaiah’s prophecy is the “ideal Israel” made up of natural Jews. Romans 2:28-29 New International Version 28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart THOSE who argue that the Church is under the New Covenant, instead of under the Abrahamic Covenant, symbolized by Sarah, as the Apostle says, are perplexed with the plain prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-33. It distinctly declares that New Covenant provision to be for the house of Israel and the house of Judah—the ten tribes and the two tribes of the Jewish nation. Perplexed, they answer that they are Jews; that all Christians are Jews, and that the New Covenant prophecy, therefore, applies to them and proves that it has already been established and that they are enjoying its provisions. (Revelation 13:16, 17); (Jeremiah 30:7); (Zechariah 12:2, 3; 14:2). Therefore, what’s the distinction between King and Kingdom for spiritual Israel? Here, we can assert, comparison prophesies. The Book of Daniel; Daniel 7:24,25; Daniel 12:7. 3 ½ times The Book of Revelation; Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:1-8. 42 months Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6. 1260 days Revelation 12:14. 3 ½ times Where in scripture does it state, Christians should be anxious about future events? Philippians 4:6; Matthew 6:27; Luke 12:25. It’s true, Christians need to be alert but not to a point it would consume their lives. Luke 21:34 Persecution will come from “all” sides of the global for true Christians, ALL Gentiles.

@PudgyCan you explain, with your presentation, accidental digestion of a smaller animal inside dense vegetation by a larger animal? What scientific proof can you offer? I see the focused has changed from Creation of the animal kingdom to before the Creation of man.

I would you much rather you quote scripture and not some organization you have a problem with. How does this relate to scripture and carnivores, since Genesis is clear about the vegetation? Can we then think, God made faulty beings?

Can you explain this thought, since you believe the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses are not inspired? Which interpretation is being used by you? CSB Revelation 13:1 And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea. He had 10 horns and seven heads. On his horns were 10 diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. KJV Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. NAS Revelation 13:1 And he stood on the sand of the seashore. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. BGT Revelation 13:1 Καὶ εἶδον ἐκ τῆς θαλάσσης θηρίον ἀναβαῖνον, ἔχον κέρατα δέκα καὶ κεφαλὰς ἑπτὰ καὶ ἐπὶ τῶν κεράτων αὐτοῦ δέκα διαδήματα καὶ ἐπὶ τὰς κεφαλὰς αὐτοῦ ὀνόμα[τα] βλασφημίας.

How does this square with the fact man was made perfect. Had man continued to be perfect in the Garden, how would they know what plants had illicit use? Then, there would be no such sinful placement upon man with such cursed ideology. Is that not the topic of this thread, or have we moved on to another topic? You state, "at the time of their creation" as a point of reference. The animal kingdom was placed before man. Therefore, what's the criteria to be worked on? 1. Animal Creation 2. Within the Garden 3. After the expulsion and before the flood * 4. After the flood All these points of reference, have been disguised. Just because, God created an animal with a set of canine fangs does not automatically mean their teeth were meant to consume other animals versus dense vegetation. However, this topic falls under point 3. Once again, unless the poster meant from creation, then, it wouldn't make sense that animals were carnivores within the Garden. Does the topic then relate to Creation of the animal kingdom and before man was created, or does the poster mean, after the expulsion and before the flood? These are two distinct points. Clarity is always a virtue.

How are these two points not be considered, contradictory? Since Adam was to tame the animal kingdom, what lost of perfection by man, be diminished toward the animal kingdom? What impact would that have for the animal kingdom to become carnivores?

Can you expand on this thought, since you believe I'm meant directly with man, and not its subsequent sin? "God pronounces a curse upon mankind after Adam and Eve's sin. It is not that working is a curse; God had previously told them they were to dress and keep the Garden. Rather, the curse is the burden of providing for oneself in a world that has turned its back on God. Can you elaborate what this means to the animal kingdom?

Correct, why then fall under the same snare of a town crier? Can you explain your position here? Wouldn't any organization in this world, and every man, be individually judged? Was Jesus not judged by man?

Correct. Then why fall under the same snare of a town crier?

This would be of course after the expulsion. I believe after the expulsion, fallen angels were introduced to man. Are you suggesting "death" not to be a curse upon man? Can you explain your position? I believe you understand, this was my point. A point in time, where the animal Kingdom would look towards its own survival. How is that relative to after the expulsion and pre-flood? This understanding falls after the flood. Does this have anything to do with carnivores? This observation would be after the flood. This would prove man was prone to sin, which you don't call a curse. Can you elaborate?

It could be the U.N. will submit to the future powers not yet bedded, as the W.H.O. has. Remember, the WHO is part of the U.N. No one will be spared in Jehovah's day of judgment. Conflict will be evident in all aspects of humanity. Can I ask you as I have asked others? Why should political wrangling and power make a difference to a Christian<>< Matthew 24:16 Christians should understand the signs at this point, by seeing them, not by advertising them, as I have indicated, as a town crier.

Once again, none responsive. Can you clarify? The point you make indicates what Genesis perceives as in the Garden of Eden. There were no evil entities to teach man what kind of plants could be used for illicit purposes. Satan, the father of Evil, condemned man by lying to Eve. That fruit was not illicit but did hold a definitive purpose. The topic is structured poorly, however, There seems to be two sets of thought. One from within the Garden (creation) and two, after man was expelled from the Garden. Between, the expulsion and pre-flood, the animal kingdom would not have been disciplined by their own survival to become carnivores out of necessity. After the expulsion of man and pre-flood, Adam and Eve still maintained the diet chosen by God, as indicated in Genesis 3: 17-19. Since Abel became a Shepherd, scripture at this point does not indicate the animal kingdom had started becoming carnivores. If wasn't until Genesis Chapter 9 after the flood when God granted man the consumption of meat. There too would be the opportunity for the animal kingdom to become carnivores. Archaeology tells a different story, as do story tellers.

Your response is none responsive. Can you clarify? You are indicating that man was imperfect in the Garden of Eden, while suggesting there were carnivores in the Garden. As indicated in Genesis, all vegetation was made available for consumption for both man and animal. Before man was created, the animal kingdom was afforded the same vegetation, even though it was denser and course (shrubs), thus giving land animals a set of canine teeth. Keep in mind, I'm referring from creation. I'm not referring from the point after Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden to before Noah's Flood. After the expulsion of man, evil entities taught man many things, including the usage of certain plants for illicit use. Animals would have used their animal instinct for survival to become carnivore.

Can you clarify your position here with this post? Are you for God's creation, or are you criticizing God for his creation?

Can you explain your conclusion with that of scripture? Genesis 1:29-30 I believe the caption starts with the word Carnivores. I would also ask the same of the poster with respect to Dinosaurs.

Can you explain as a Jehovah Witness how you can conduct yourselves in the same manner here and still believe, in your hearts, you are doing God's will? I do not condone brazen conduct, even though it is expressed to me by many here. How can someone walk in faith, when faith is not in a person out of spiritual control? The demonstration about the U.N. while interesting, does not fall under being a town crier as an example. Christians are told to stay on the watch, be alert, and stay awake with spiritual matters that are important to God. 1 Thessalonians 5:6

Can you explain, why worldly matters should be a grave concern to a Christian? Did Jesus and the Apostles advocate against Rome for their treatment of their people? Do, you believe it was Christians that burned Rome by the words of Nero? Can you give me an example where Jesus spoke about politics as a topic? Isn't your statement as a Jehovah's Witness the very definition of being part of this world. You have just answered your own question. Once again, don’t compare your personal behavior as a Jehovah’s Witness with my intention here. I’m not the one being pretentious. I find no benefit in being quarrelsome as you wish me to be.