56 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

Moise Racette, you are correct when you say, "It would be wise and beneficial for the reader not to accept the interpretation of scripture by apostates." The current men serving as the governing body are apostates. It is wise for readers to not accept their interpretations when they are not in accord with the healthful teaching.

By whose authority does the poster speak in judgment of men that are upholding the laws of God?

It is different with the exploits of apostates, since their actions condemn them, through scripture. Twisting of words doesn't change the intent from the poster.

Yet, you were given several examples of such indignation for those that refuse to teach the gospel as intended. This poster just like @Witness cannot pick and choose what they wish out of scripture to make it their own understanding. That is a human failure and a sin against God.

1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

The elders disfellowship faithful anointed ones who keep their integrity to Christ and obey the direction of the holy spirit. The congregation not a spiritual paradise, it's a place where "Jezebel" puts out hits on "Naboths".

1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

Jehovah's organization is full of stubborn sons of Jehovah who go to the nations for help, but it is not at God's command.

It has become simple for this poster to contradict scripture at every post. True followers of Christ demand of themselves the inspiration and commands Christ gave before his departure.

Titus 3:10, NIV: Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them. Titus 3:10, ESV: As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, Titus 3:10, KJV: A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject

1 Corinthians 5:11. “But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.”

Romans 16:17, NIV: "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them."

Timothy 5:20, ESV: As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear. 1 Timothy 5:20, KJV: Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

 Acts 20:28

New International Version

²⁸ Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God. which he bought with his own blood

It would be wise and beneficial for the reader not to accept the interpretation of scripture by apostates.

2 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

It is not a requirement to go to the governing body for light.

Then what was the purpose of the apostles and Paul if the poster wishes to accept such misinterpretation?

2 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Paul did not go up to the governing body for years. He showed respect for their authority, but his respected Jehovah's authority and the authority of the Christ ahead of any committee of men on earth.

If the poster understands why Apostle Paul respected human authority it, was out of respect for Gods words. What is a group of Elders of a church but a form of community responsibility that God’s word instructed as well as Christ? Why would Christ have a need to be head of the congregation if there was to be no sub servants to continue his fine works until his second coming? Ephesians 1:21-23. If not, as the poster suggests, Matthew 23:3 would have no meaning. Therefore, it’s the posters interpretation that shouldn't be accepted, unless this posters is suggesting to have spiritual food delivered by Christ in Heaven.

Not only that, the poster disrespects and denies what is written in Hebrews 13:17

Hebrews 13:17

 New International Version

¹⁷ Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

The same faulty provision that @Witnesshas for denying scripture as mandated by God and Christ. Just like that poster this poster corrupts the understanding of the bible.

8 minutes ago, Witness said:

Throughout the centuries since his resurrection, Jesus has faithfully supervised the activities of the Christian congregation over which he has been ruling as King. (Col. 1:13)   w09 12/15 pp. 20-24 

So, when the Wt. states that Jesus sat waiting to become king until 1914, it shows what hypocrites they truly are.  

*** w14 7/15 pp. 30-31 par. 10 “You Will Be Witnesses of Me” ***
10 Modern-day anointed Christians pointed in advance to October 1914 as a significant date. They based this on Daniel’s prophecy about a large tree that was cut down and would grow again after “seven times.” (Dan. 4:16) Jesus referred to this same period as “the appointed times of the nations” in his prophecy about his future presence and “the conclusion of the system of things.” Ever since that marked year of 1914, “the sign of [Christ’s] presence” as earth’s new King has become clear for all to see. (Matt. 24:3, 7, 14; Luke 21:24) So since then “the magnificent things of God” have included Jehovah’s enthronement of Jesus as King over the world of mankind
 

Learn to see the difference, poster. The posters confusion is its own downfall. Don't just use, things that pretend to make the posters argument, it doesn't.

15 minutes ago, Witness said:

What?  Why do you fight truth?  I'm always shaking my head with what you come up with as an excuse.

A king RULES.  That is the component of having a kingship.  That's common sense, where is you common sense?

Only because the poster refuses to see the context in the correct manner. The example the poster continues to use, amount to the same confusion the poster has, about what ruler ship and kingship signify. Therefore, the poster is inadequate to point out what commonsense is.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Will a quote from your leaders be enough of a qualification for you?  

"After Jesus says this, an amazing thing happens. He begins going up into heaven, as you can see here. Then a cloud hides him from sight, and the disciples don’t see Jesus again. Jesus goes to heaven, and he begins to rule over his followers on earth from there."

My Book of Bible Stories, #104

When the proper intent is demonstrated, it fails on the view the poster is referring to. Consider understanding the whole content before submitting a deception, since there is a fine line between rulership and kingship. The proper context would be, Jesus from his ascension, found followers (Christians) to continue his fine works, until his second coming, or does that not mean anything to the poster. Then, what would be the purpose of the words written in Hebrews 9:28

Educated guesses are not a teaching tool.

56 minutes ago, Witness said:

Jesus is definitely our model, not men; and God does have a people for His name.   They would be chosen by God Himself.  (Isa 43:10).  They are the anointed – 1 Pet 2:5,9.  “chosen” “living stones” of the Temple of God, giving sacrifices/witness of praise to God.  (1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16)

Then why does scripture reference, Elders, and overseers of the church? Or does Titus 1:5 mean nothing to the poster. This means, the poster lacks respect for the authority coming from God's arrangement. Therefore, the posters view is driven by men, not God.

There is also a reference to responsible men. It appears, this poster has a problem with men in general to be in charge. No women, will ever be in charge in God's Kingdom. There is a "good" reason for that.

On 1/12/2023 at 7:01 PM, Witness said:

The word in Joshua is

שָׁחָה shâchâh, shaw-khaw'; a primitive root; to depress, i.e. prostrate (especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God):—bow (self) down, crouch, fall down (flat), humbly beseech, do (make) obeisance, do reverence, make to stoop, worship.

Remember the word you said that was “mistranslated” in Heb 1:6 is

When the issue is confused by none scholars, what is the remedy?

Yeshua was a figure described in the Bible The Tanakh, the Bible of the Jewish people, also known at the Old Testament , is full of proof and promise about a Savior who would come from the line of King David and redeem people from their sin and brokenness. Yeshua perfectly fulfilled over 324 prophecies about the coming Messiah in the Tanakh.

• Yeshua is a name that means 'Salvation' in Hebrew. Who is Yeshua? Yeshua is the same as Jesus Christ of the New Testament Bible, and the same as the Messiah which was prophesied to come through the Jewish people over and again in the Old Testament Bible which is known as the Tanakh to the Jews.

• The son of Nun, a distinguished leader of the Hebrews, and the successor of Moses. His name at first was Oshea, Numbers 13:8,16; and in the New Testament he is called Jesus, Acts 7:45 Hebrews 4:8. Both the names, Joshua and Jesus, signify savior, deliverer.

On 1/12/2023 at 7:01 PM, Witness said:

Where did Watchtower learn about the dates of Passover?  From the Jews, it is common knowledge.  And, this organization “celebrates” the memorial of Christ’s death on the wrong night anyway. 

What date would the poster propose as the correct date for the memorial of Christ as indicated in scripture?

1 hour ago, Witness said:

This signifies that since the first century, Christ has retained an active rulership in the heavens. Ps 110:1,2

1914 is a lie.

If this was factual, then humanity would have started the 1000 years cleansing back to perfection since the introduction of the son of man. Since humanity continues on a downward spiral, it's the posters interpretation that is a lie.

That focus has also been confused by witnesses that believe Jesus became King in 33CE. Poster needs to better interpert scripture for a qualified, audience understanding.

On 1/13/2023 at 2:59 AM, AnnaNana said:

I don't know anything about Pearl, and I've never chatted with anyone on here yet, but...

 

Jesus is definitely NOT an apostate. We are not followers of men, we are followers of the Christ. Christ follows Jehovah.

This is interesting since the poster has similar ideologies as the aforementioned. However, the poster is correct, Jesus was not an apostate but some in the Theological school of Jews laws, they thought he was. No one should be followers of men. Scripture does indicate, true Christians should follow in the pattern of men that have taken that responsibility. That was the reason for not just the apostles, but the elders and overseers over the church. So, neglecting such instructions, that person denies scripture and thus is NOT a follower of Christ and dishonors God.

20 hours ago, Witness said:

Allen, for the sake of other readers, can you tell me where it is stated in the Holy Scriptures, that God’s chosen anointed priests of “Israel” can be replaced or ‘represented’ by those not anointed – by “foreigners”/”Gentiles”?    (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17)

Again, can you tell me where in God’s decrees, does His “law” approve of the replacement of His chosen priesthood?

AnnaNana, When you stop confusing the issue. Perhaps this will give the poster a better understanding of scripture by these examples.

• In Israel, anointment conferred upon the king the ru'aḥ YHWH ("the spirit of the Lord"), i.e., His support (I Sam. 16:13–14; 18:12), strength (Ps. 89:21–25), and wisdom (Isaiah 11:1–4; see *Messiah). The king absorbs divine attributes through unction. The anointment of the high priest served an entirely different function.

The phrase spiritual Israel is used in two primary contexts. The first is as a reference to the entire body of Christian believers, in distinction to the political or racial people of Israel. Spiritual Israel is also sometimes used to suggest concepts related to replacement theology, in which the promises directed toward Israel are now given to the Church, instead.

Galatians 6:16 refers to the “Israel of God.” Given how frequently Paul dismisses ethic or national divisions in this same letter (Galatians 3:26; 4:5–7; 6:15), it is unlikely that he encourages such divisions here. Instead, he refers to the readers as being similar to Isaac: they are the “children of promise” (Galatians 4:28). Paul has a spiritual group in mind in Galatians 6:16, not an ethnic one. This reference to spiritual Israel is clear enough, but not every reference by Paul to Israel is spiritual in nature. Some, such as Romans 9:4, are national and literal. The context is key.

There are other places in the New Testament that suggest a “spiritual Israel” in that they echo terms used in the Old Testament to refer to the Israelites. First Peter 2:9 uses the same terminology as Exodus 19:5–6 in reference to Christians. Galatians 3:29 uses the term heirs, as does Isaiah 65:9. All Christians are “fellow citizens” and members of the house of God, according to Ephesians 2:12–13. Romans 10:12 also says the same—there is no national preference with respect to salvation. Just as we become spiritual “sons of Abraham” by faith (Galatians 3:7), so we can be considered “spiritual Israel” when we receive Christ. In the sense that ethnicity and politics have no relationship to salvation, the term spiritual Israel presents no noteworthy problems.

Therefore, any true "anointed" has been pasted that responsibility by God's Holy Spirit, and yes! If the poster bothers to read scripture as intended, scripture supplies the reason why there is still a need for the anointed today.

3 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

There were also some in Jesus's day who claimed to be righteous but were in the dark. It was by their lack of love and lack of common sense that they were identifiable.

This is why the poster is identified in darkness.

1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

“Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, judge for yourselves.  But as for us, we cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard."

This is not commonsense. We are judged by God at every turn of our lives. We are supposed to live by God's standards and laws as faithful Christians. Speaking of human imperfection by another human that is imperfect doesn't constitute the standard Christ was given for being perfect. This is why, scripture retains no malice. If the poster wishes to instruct, it should be by the strength of God's Holy Spirit, in light, without condemnation. He who judges will be judged. That behavior is against Christ revision of, or by the gospels.

13 minutes ago, AnnaNana said:

Any of the elders who are erroneously and ignorantly currently teaching or condoning or believing apostate doctrines can repent. Many of the Pharisees and scribes in the first century repented, even many who initially went along with and clamored for Jesus' death.

 

Those who act as apostates, as the current members of the governing body do, their twisting of the scriptures, it is not a once and done thing. They can change, as long as they have not blasphemed the spirit. Manasseh repented. I cannot read hearts. There is one who is coming to judge, and he will reward all people accordingly.

This is further proof of the poster's unrighteousness and fails in the interpretation of scripture. While The GB adhere to the words of God, I have found no perversion of those words. Apostates don't have the same outcome. It has nothing to do with personal judgment, but how one's own words become a stumbling block for those who do wish to know the true God and obey his words through Christ.

Therefore, there is no special provision in scripture that allows for apostates to flourish in a Christian way. Then, it's NOT Christ way to abandon his true followers of faith, by God's word. That is the reward after repentance. When darkness sees light, and then darkness again, there is no righteous messenger, just darkness.

1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

I honor my Father, and you dishonor me. 

The poster's thought is backwards. The poster cannot honor God by deceit! Therefore, the poster condemns one's faulty righteousness.

Christ condemned the pharisees actions, not the pharisees as imperfect humans. Since Jesus was perfect, he had that distinction. No one else on earth can claim the same, other than to Follow God's law, through the bible. This means obeying what is written in scripture without twisting it to mean what the poster thinks it means. Profaning the name of God also brings dishonor to Christ namesake.

 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

2 Timothy 2:21
Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Respect yourself before you demand it of others!

9 hours ago, Witness said:

Some of your points I agree with, but this one, certainly not.  Where does God put His name?  It is on "New Jerusalem", not on an earthly organization built by men in the world still dominated by Satan, where child abuse, the trampling of the anointed, (2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3), oppression, the lust for riches in this world...all disgusting in the sight of the Almighty God.  It is a disgrace to say that God blesses corruption.  

You should not be that disagreeable with your kind of people @Witness. The poster makes the same assertions you are promoting in a more sensible way. Not direct like you, but to the point, of apostate thoughts. However, this poster overreached with the "assumption" of riches. Child abuse is a human frailty. If this poster condemns "child abuse" then the poster is condemning human imperfection, which the poster is part of. In all logic, then the poster must believe this poster is Christ, equal. Now, trampling of the anointed is nothing more than fake news by fake anointed. 2 Peter 1:2-4

By the lack of following God's law, I just don't see how.

1 hour ago, AnnaNana said:

To Moise Racette: You are correct when you say, "Apostates cannot dictate scripture in order for it to mean whatever they wish it to mean." The current men serving on the governing body are apostates. They twist the scriptures. Therefore, just because they publish a certain meaning doesn't mean it means what they think it means. You are correct, Moise, in this statement.

Unfortunately, this post is tapered with deceit by the poster. The same can be concluded for the poster, thus nullifying the poster's intent.

However, as you have noticed, I will not profane the name of God in such a wicked way the poster is doing.

15 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Take note, all you who do have an ear to hear. Jehovah is coming to bring relief to those who sigh and mourn over the wicked things going on in the organization.

Just like Christ instructed the apostles and then the apostles to the congregation. 

• Ephesians 5:7-9 New Century Version 7 So have nothing to do with them. 8 In the past you were full of darkness, but now you are full of light in the Lord. So live like children who belong to the light. 9 Light brings every kind of goodness, right living, and truth.

Apostates cannot dictate scripture in order for it to mean, whatever they wish it to mean.

3 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Are you anointed, faithful, and yet disfellowshipped?

The mistake apostates make is thinking God can have anything to do with those that disobey his laws. It is better not to listen to the nonsense of Pearl Doxsey and @Witness.

The word defintion the poster should consider for the sake of the poster, is:

Adjective sacrilegious - /sækɹəlˈɪʤəs/

1 Grossly irreverent toward what is held to be sacredIt is sacrilegious to enter with shoes on

Thesaurus

Synonym: blasphemous profane

Derived: sacrilege sacrilegiousness

Similar: irreverent

Therefore, its apostates that need to get out of babylon before its too late. Jeremiah 51:6, Romans 8:7

4 hours ago, AnnaNana said:

Jehovah always sends a warning first. The Bible is clear. Jehovah has allowed the nations to attack his name people in the past when they refused to repent of their wicked ways. The modern-day organization has encouraged outright idolatry by raising up a clergy class right in Jehovah's house. The people have bowed down to the image of the "GB". Jehovah is sick of it. Policies involving antichrist shunning, twisting of the scriptures to teach lies about 1914, permitting blood use...when Ezekiel saw the disgusting things going on in the temple in Jerusalem it parallels what goes on today at Bethel. 

Whats worse is pretending to be a JW as an apostate. It brings universal disgrace to our creator. You use God's name in vain, making the poster, more wicked. The poster disgraces God's sovereignty by challenging not only scripture but how God uses humans to ensure his resolve of bringing back paradise earth. 

Its no ones call, how God will determine judgment on earth other than through scripture. Therefore, the posters imputnence nullies any sacred work.

So, if apostates are sick of what scripture implements as measures of correction for a true Chritian life as indicated by Christ himself, then those apostates deny scripture all together.

Once again, the posters attempt to corrupt and twist the words of God to satisfy posters like @Witness, is NOT worthy of consideration, even less, now.

Now the poster has shown the posters true colors. Not worthy of consideration.

The poster should rethink certian aspects of the quiz.

I recommend the poster start a new topic and have fights by himself, since it appears understanding comprehension on "examples" escape the poster.

If anyone wishes to divert this topic to generations, I propose a new topic be generated, or it can go into JW closed club where hypocrisy can be challenged and discussed by individuals wishing to understand scripture from a standpoint of their own human failure in understanding.