Evacuated

29 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

I doubt whether anyone's seriously considering putting members of the Org's leadership to death

Hmm?? Got my doubts about that.

42 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

How does that sit with the issue of loyalty?

Pretty well for me. Excellent strategy in that David secured his future boundaries whilst giving the Philistines the impression he was fighting their enemies. He then escaped fighting against Saul when the distrusting Philistines sent him away. Thus he played no part in Saul's overthrow and death in the ensuing battle. So David stayed loyal to Jehovah and allowed him to deal with problem of Saul.

So back to the thread, the way to deal with New Light, Old Light, any kind of Light  is to wait always on Jehovah. Even David advised as much at Ps. 4:3-4. 

On 5/13/2016 at 19:10, Ann O'Maly said:

So did you check them out? Food for thought, hey? 

I'm having trouble finding anything particularly sinister in these comments. I'm hearing a man saying that if youths felt they were mature enough to have a driving licence but weren't ready to consider dedication and baptism, then maybe their priorities needed adjustment.

However, to say this is promoting the encouraging of youths to get baptized in exchange for a driving licence??? That would be an own foot shot in my book and a recipe for spiritual disaster. Maybe someone would be idiotic enough to think such a strategy would work and save them the chore of having a Bible Study with their child, but I'm not hearing that suggestion here.

https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-prophecy/

1 hour ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Therefore, loyalty to Him may mean disloyalty to a religious leadership's actions or beliefs. 

How does 1 Samuel 24:4-7 sit with this?

9 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Can you give me an instance from the Bible where a true prophet got Jehovah's message wrong?

This is a puzzling question. Of course no true prophet is recorded as getting Jehovah's message wrong. Whenever Jehovah's message is transmitted, it could only be right as Jehovah himself was transmitting it and saw to it that the message was transmitted as he required. Sometimes the message was not even understood by the messenger.  

Isn't that part of the understanding of what an inspired message is?

4 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

Eoin- so if they deny it now it goes away?

You are all at it again! Acts 23:7. Let me know when somebody wins!

16 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

So you are ok with agreeing with a demon? yikes! 

More a case of demons agreeing with the truth: Matt 8:29

22 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

If this were the case, then it would have been passed down by not just the apostles but also their successors. Research Irenaeus of Lyons,Ignatius of Antioch or Polycarp for example.

I have, and there are sufficient numbers of folk like your self arguing for and against trinitarian "church father" beliefs. Reminds me of Paul's experience at Acts 23:7. I will leave it to you people to fight it out. Let me know if anyone wins.

29 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

The quote of Joel was applied to Jesus. That is the whole point of it being quoted in the first place.

Man. We are on different planets!! I will stick with Joel on this one.

Issues on this subject were also discussed in the Awake: July 8, 1998 issue, on pages 10-14, entitled "Jehovah's Witnesses-Courageous in the Face of Nazi Peril". Copy attached.

1933 in Nazi Germany.pdf

Jehovah's Witnesses understanding of this John 1:1 is in harmony with the authority of the inspirer of the Holy Scriptures and Jehovah God Himself. That is because their understanding of the text is in harmonizes with the whole Bible teaching about Jesus, God's Son. There are many others who agree with this understanding and rehashing their arguments here is unnecessary.

As for Greber's alleged source of  "inspiration", this is of no consequence. Even if his translation of the scripture was demon-inspired, the precedent of demon-inspired utterances AGREEING with the truth was set long before anyway, compare Acts 16:16-17 in Greber's translation (rendered in English)

16 One day as we were on our way to the same place of worship, we met a slave-girl through whom a spirit gifted with the power of divination spoke, and who in this way earned much money for her 17 employers. She followed Paul and us, and cried, "These men are servants of the Most High, and they are showing you the way to 18 salvation."

This side issue in no way discounts that the Greek scriptures in quoting the text of Joel 2:32 should contain the Divine name Jehovah.

Do you mean like Moses added it in in Genesis? Or different?

IN this discussion when asked if Moses inserted the name Jehovah into the book of Genesis you said:

Shiwii: 

Posted 14 May

10 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

That can only mean .  . . the end is . . . is . . . a blink of an eye away! They system will not last till 2017!!!

You wish.......

When it quotes from Joel 2:32:"Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." 

at Acts 2:21: "And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved"

and Rom 10:13: "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”"

Probably because "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows" Matt.24:36.

No need to prove this because it was not I would have thought??

3- part Turning Points in History documentary on the period of persecution experienced by Jehovah's Witnesses in Quebec, Canada under the tenure of Maurice Duplessis.

Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_jGrPTbmmg

Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILLA_7ruZ0o

Part 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jLEUGUPo78

11 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

Don't you remember that there was a time when speakers could use slides and cine film as part of their public talks (maybe before your time)? They were a highlight, a change from the humdrum. Then the Society discouraged them.

This is getting a bit Apples and Oranges and going off point, although I would quite like to see a topic on old versus new methods of presenting material at K Halls and Assemblies.

15 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

And yet, in this Western culture, where women routinely wear pants in formal, informal and business settings, KH culture still frowns upon JW women wearing them to meetings and in service. Why?

I am responding to this one as I have been quoted, but only for this one posting.

It is a reasonable question, but, like beards or not for male Jehovah's Witnesses, seems to trigger endless debate.

Routine choice of clothing of those outside of the Jehovah's Witness community is not the final arbiter of their dress code for formal activities.

Whilst the scriptures provide guidance, for example at 1Tim. 2:9-10, the practical application of this guidance to a dress code for formal activity in modern times is influenced more strongly by what is felt acceptable overall by the Witness community than by popular culture. Most Witnesses are happy to go along with the standard encouraged by those taking the lead in that formal activity. Of course in determining that standard, some consideration is given to the cultural setting, particularly in what would be generally expected by the public as a form of dress appropriate to the work that Jehovah's Witnesses do, and the life-style that they promote. 

That given, there may well be numerous styles of dress and forms of clothing that no longer generate the controversy or even offence they have done in previous years.These changes in style may well be reflected quite acceptably in the informal attire of Jehovah's Witnesses where there is no violation of Christian standards of modesty.

The dress code adopted by Jehovah's Witnesses for formal activity does not violate standards of modesty either inside or outside of the congregation, and leaves plenty of room for the expression of personal taste. It seems to be adequately fit for purpose at present, and allows for focus on more important matters as advised by the apostle Paul: Ph.1:9-11.

On 5/14/2016 at 17:42, admin said:

When asking a NEW question under the main question it would be better to START a new question and link over to that. Notice the conversation at this point has NOTHING to do with the original question.

Yeah agreed. I was trying to get clarity to get things back on point but I think I'm wasting my time. So I'll abandon at this stage. Sorry for the unintended deviation!

5 hours ago, Queen Esther said:

 

Brothers  &  Sisters...  WHO  has  the  power  to  stop  that  GUY ? 

 

I know this is frustrating but mean time there is the option to hide inappropriate posts by setting the Ignored Users option under your log in name at the top right of the Forum page.

59 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

 

Moses wrote what he was suppose to write by inspiration.

 

So do you mean those people were not actually calling on the name of Jehovah, it was Moses who inserted that phrase to explain that although they were calling on a God whose name they did not know, they were really calling on Jehovah?

2 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

please address these false prophecies

What is your definition of "prophecy"?

5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

He knew the name of God and thus wrote it in where it should have been

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying: Do you mean that Moses inserted the name of God into the text where it should have been to give clarity ?

28 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

 

They called on God 

 

Not the answer to the question.

35 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

make the story as accurate as possible

I believe Moses did that under inspiration at  Genesis 4:26 "At that time the people began calling on the name of Jehovah" 

1 hour ago, Ann O'Maly said:

How is it idolatry to protect one's own or another's property? I don't get it. Besides,

Matthew 24:43 - “But know one thing: If the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into." 

Was Jesus using an idolater as an analogy for Christian vigilance? 

This is a good enough response to your opinion that providing security for a building project is "idolatry".

Just now, Witness said:

infers you believe the existence of kingdom halls as part of the organization are blessed by God in the same manner as the early Temple.

Nehemiah was building walls to a city.