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Evacuated

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Posts posted by Evacuated

    Naming a child "Jehovah"

    in Topics

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Shiwiii said:

     

    so tell me how Abraham, Issac and Jacob missed out on this?

     

    I think that's for you to resolve.

    I don't know why you keep referring to Moses either. Why not answer the question?

    3 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

    The people, not Moses. What name did they call on?

     

    Doesn’t having brothers and sisters being used as security to “protect” Kingdom Halls show a form of idolatry over a building / corporation? Isn’t a human life worth so much more than a building? And what exactly would one of Jehovah’s Witnesses do

    in Topics

    Posted

    35 minutes ago, Witness said:

    The Kingdom Halls are not “God’s House”

    Irrelevant straw man. 

     

    36 minutes ago, Witness said:

    There seems to be a comparison made here in a comment of God’s Temple arrangement to kingdom halls.

    "seems to be" therefore opinion.

    Reference is to security arrangements for protection of life and property as having Scriptural precedence and nothing to do with idolatry by any stretch of the imagination. 

    I will not be indulging in any irrelevant, filibustering type postings further on this subject so will stand by my initial response without any more comment

    Doesn’t having brothers and sisters being used as security to “protect” Kingdom Halls show a form of idolatry over a building / corporation? Isn’t a human life worth so much more than a building? And what exactly would one of Jehovah’s Witnesses do

    in Topics

    Posted

    2 hours ago, Nicole said:

    Doesn’t having brothers and sisters being used as security to “protect” Kingdom Halls show a form of idolatry over a building / corporation?

    No more than when David and Samuel the seer assigned Levites to temple guard duty, or when Nehemiah assigned guards during the Jerusalem wall-rebuilding program. 1 Chron. 9:24; Neh. 4:22-23. (comp Acts 4:1).

     

    2 hours ago, Nicole said:

    Isn’t a human life worth so much more than a building?

    Certainly is.

    Although security guarding is not just about protecting property. Protecting life of building occupants may be involved and of course there are also safety issues in connection with e.g fire, gas and electrical appliances and supply, drainage, water supply issues, etc. The mere presence of security may act as a deterrent to opportunistic intruders. 

     

    2 hours ago, Nicole said:

    And what exactly would one of Jehovah’s Witnesses do if confronted by determined robbers?

    The society's literature has always advised along the lines of "Your life is your priority. No possession can exceed its value" when confronted by thieves.

    Specific instruction would presumably be provided to anyone assigned security responsibilities. Sharing detailed information on those lines may or may not be appropriate on a public forum, so I will leave that to someone else with experience of such things.

    Christopher George: Adjusting Our Sails Through the Winds of Change

    in Topics

    Posted

    14 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

    He should walk a mile in other former bethelites who were laid off due to old age and told "Keep warm and well fed"

    Are you one of these "former bethelites"?

     

    14 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

    I thought it was the Bethel "Family". Is that how families treat their older ones? Throw them out on the street after their usefulness has passed by?

    The Bethel Family is only a small part of the worldwide brotherhood don't you know?

    There is a much bigger family out here "on the street" (from where the bethelites came) than there is in Bethel. And, out here, we look after our family (as we look after the bethelites). So where are all these "abandoned ones"?

    Sisters and Pants

    in Topics

    Posted

    Depends on the culture and conscience of the people in area. For example, many woman of Asian origin wear "trousers" as a matter of course and I have often seen this mode of dress worn by sisters at the meeting without adverse comment.

    With regard to dress and grooming matters for sisters, 1Tim. 2:9-10 is provided for guidance. In conjunction with the principle in Rom 15:1, it is possible for sisters to dress appropriately for any situation.

    Naming a child "Jehovah"

    in Topics

    Posted

    A sin? that's debatable. However, it seems inappropriate. The divine name is incorporated in the names of many of the characters in the Bible record, but I am unaware of anyone being given or taking taking the sole name of Jehovah for themselves. Perhaps if they had we would have a better idea of it's original pronunciation...... 

    In what way is someone appointed by Holy Spirit?

    in Topics

    Posted

    The inspired word of God provides the list of qualifications. 1Tim 3:1-13; Titus 1:5-9. These qualifications are not  academic qualifications obtained from secular or theological institutes of learning (comp. Acts 4:13) They are outlined in the inspired word and are defined by it.

    This way, the appointment is by holy spirit. There is no direct manifestation such as what took place with the first anointed Christians at the festival of Pentecost 33 CE (Acts 2:1-4).

    As Titus 1:5 shows, men currently serving as elders will make appointments of those they feel measure up to these qualifications so that is the sense in which they are appointed by holy spirit. The qualifications they meet are defined by holy spirit in the inspired word of God.

    However, the warning Paul gave Timothy to avoid a hasty appointment of an older man indicates that it could be possible to appoint inappropriately (1Tim. 5:22). Paul provides reassurance in this regard in his words at 1Tim 5:24-25 in that secret sins will eventually come to light.

    As for men who enjoyed theocratic office whilst behaving inappropriately, the scriptures are full of examples of those who thought they could fool Jehovah along with the people, and the outcome for them. Both Saul and David come to mind.

    Is it appropriate for minors to get baptized?

    in Topics

    Posted

    Just now, Ann O'Maly said:

    Do you think JWs would post negative comments about their photographed theocratic activities on a JW board? ;)

    Not the happy ones, but I would have thought some of the troubled ones might have had a pop? 

    2 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    JWs are a high control group that distances its members from the wider community (unless it's to evangelize)

    Do you know, I read this stuff and I feel sad for the people that do it. I just never had that experience. I don't know why people don't associate with their families when they become witnesses. I was never encouraged to behave like that although I hear plenty of tales of those who do on these forums. I have never allowed tobacco smoking or other harmful practices under my roof so that has put a damper on some of my non witness family visiting me, but it never stopped my going to them. There are sometimes issues over political and religious festivals and other customs, but as I don't participate in those things I just get left out. That doesn't bother me at all. As for the evangelizing, I know where they stand on issues so it isn't a topic. We have plenty of other things to talk about.

    Wow! I must live in a different world from these highly controlled people and their controllers (thankfully!) The strange thing for me is that I only seem to come in contact with this weirdo world on the internet.

    18 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    "No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family."

    Well I certainly agree with that. Certainly parents holding that view generally would make easier for many youths who become Jehovah's Witnesses as well.

    Thanks for the links. I'll check that stuff out when I have time.

     

     

     

     

    Is it appropriate for minors to get baptized?

    in Topics

    Posted

    29 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    A view of many who are JWs too

    I am sure responsible Jehovah's Witness parents are concerned that their children make an acceptable dedication and any reassurance they can get on how to discern and support that would always be appreciated. However, I would not go as far as to say that many of them feel the way you stated below. 

    21 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    the ethics of baptizing JW children is highly questionable

     

    29 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    a teen who gets married does not plan for their marriage to fail

    Quite true, but are you referring to marriage in a general sense or amongst Jehovah's Witnesses?

    I would venture that the level of support and encouragement provided to young people who are sincerely seeking to maintain their dedication to Jehovah greatly exceeds the encouragement to make a success of marriage in today's moral climate outside of Jehovah's Witnesses society.

    29 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    Do you think they would post photos on a JW board of themselves looking miserable?

    Well, can't say. There are some fairly discontented postings appearing from time to time, but miserable pictures I haven't seen apart from the occasional mugshot of Witnesses guilty of crimes (Although they were unlikely to be selfies of course).

    However, many of the usual archive pics have pretty positive comments as well, so I have no reason to suspect hypocrisy.

    43 minutes ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    There are also lots of young people who wear a painted-on smile when at the meetings

    Not lots in my experience, but on a worldwide scale I am sure there are many. Regardless of the numbers, this is a sad experience for any one, and there are older ones who try to live a double life as well.

    Hypocrisy is an extremely stressful course to pursue, worse when acted out with family and friends whom the individual still loves and wants to be with if it wasn't for the spiritual aspects of life.  It must cause a lot of mental anguish for those who follow this path, especially younger ones who may still be materially dependent  as well.

    Over the years, I have known  young ones who experienced a faith crisis. However, some of them, even after leaving Jehovah's Witnesses (and their families) to pursue something they felt deprived of, come back, some years later, and embrace the way of life fully.

    But then, we don't expect everyone to stay as one of Jehovah's Witnesses or all children to embrace the faith of their families. Matt.10:35 (comp.1John 2:19).

    I think it is worth noting that this trauma is not just an experience that Jehovah's Witnesses go through when deciding to reject the religion of their families. It can also be experienced by those who leave a strong religious background to become Jehovah's Witnesses. I have seen some pretty difficult times experienced, for example, by Jewish, Muslim, Hindu  as well as Roman Catholic youths who have decided to become Jehovah's Witnesses independent of their families.

    1 hour ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    Even advocating blackmailing them into baptism

    I would need to hear the whole talk to evaluate that assessment. Baubles for Baptism? I thought that strategy failed with Christendom centuries ago!! 

    Is it appropriate for minors to get baptized?

    in Topics

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

    Then the ethics of baptizing JW children is highly questionable. 

    A view of many who are not Jehovah's Witnesses presumably. 

    Young people who sincerely dedicate their lives to Jehovah do not plan to fail in fulfilling their promise. For many, the home and congregational environment they enjoy is geared to support them in fulfilling their dedication. Young people who apply themselves to being spiritually focused in this way do not miss out on anything wholesome in their lives. The many photos shown on this jw-archive of young people enjoying theocratic activity seem to bear this out. Certainly in my own experience, many young people I know, baptized at an early age, are living happy, productive, well balanced, and successful lives, quite convinced that their early decision has led them to the "best life ever".

     

    Is it appropriate for minors to get baptized?

    in Topics

    Posted

    On 5/2/2016 at 19:03, Ann O'Maly said:

    Particularly in the JW faith, a baptism is a lifelong contract

    I am having trouble understanding how baptism could be viewed as a contract in a secular legal sense in that elements could be regulated and possibly enforceable by the state.

    Baptism has been around a long time in the US, (to which state your linked contract definition page refers). Although there are wide differences in the recommended appropriate age, and also in understanding of what baptism therefore represents, surely this issue should have long been settled if secular law and definition applied?

    Examples of the variety of views for appropriate Baptism age.

    The United Methodist Church strongly advocates the baptism of infants
    Grace Community Church: our general practice is to wait until a professing child has reached the age of twelve.
    Bethlehem Baptist Church: It is our practice to wait until a child is at least age eleven before considering him for baptism.
    Roman Catholic Church: Parents are responsible for bringing their child to the Sacrament of Baptism as soon after birth as possible. 
    Latter Day Saints: And their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when eight years old.
    First Lutheran Church: When infants are baptized, parents make promises for their child until the child is old enough to affirm these promises for themselves (typically around age 14).

    Of course there are others, including Jehovah's Witnesses, who view this matter as requiring a level of understanding on the part of the one getting baptized and thus do not mandate a minimum age limit.
     

    As stated, the most recent article on the subject of baptism of youths is linked here:

    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-march-2016/young-ones-ready-baptism/

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