bruceq

That was answered in the previous post. As for the other questions I noticed you said in EACH of them "according to the Bible" well your belief should be demonstrated from Scripture and since Scripture were all written by the Jews who do not believe in a Trinity then the answer is that God is not a Trinity. "Let the proof-texting acrobatics begin. On your marks ... get set ... GO!" Oh sorry you are still stuck at the starting line since you now have no frame of reference {The path you are racing on is gone} since the Bible was not written by Trinitarians but by Jews. Of course you can do what many Trinitarians like Cos did in using sources many years after the Bible was written. That would be another road to race on but I will not be on that road because I believe that only "GODS WORD is Truth" John 17:17.

{The Dagon thing came from James I never even mentioned that. My argument was with any form of Idolatry such as the fish symbol Cos uses after every statement instead of a period. A symbol for something in writing is known as a hieroglyph and then the thread emerged into something fishy about the clothes the Pope wears lol. I could care less about that although a picture is worth a thousand words - Pope and Pharoah's hats} Here is a quote from another member to answer you :"bruceq made a fabulous work giving you scriptural and secular proof that the trinity doesn't exist and that the first Christians didn't believe in such nonsense. You should read again his comments and try to respond if you think the proof he presented you is lacking. " Hislop was from about 150 years ago so of course it will not be entirely accurate but there is hundreds as seen in my list of recent publications about the pagan origins of many of the things in Christendom and NONE of those books were written by Jehovah's Witnesses. {Do you believe Christmas also has pagan origins? Thats rhetorical because I am trying not to get off topic.} Yes I agree the Trinity is a problem for you since it is not in the Bible. I know my God, He is no mystery, so his identity is not a problem for me. "3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." John 17:3 "And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’+ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,”+ declares Jehovah." Jer. 31:34

By the way not all here are Jehovah's Witnesses so your remarks are irrelevant. So where is the Trinity in your Bible? "Yet you are the ones guilty of using pagan symbols mixed in as Christian. Charles T. Russell’s gave site…pagan! The cover of Watchtower books with the Egyptian Sun god RA emblazoned on the cover…pagan! And the list goes on." Of course but once they found out it was PAGAN they changed. What about you? If you found out that your cherished beliefs were also false as the Witnesses did are you humble enough to change?

I didn't realize listing my historical library was going to cause such a fuss [at least to one person]. Why did you single out just one of the hundreds of books I listed? The only book I consider to be completely true is the Bible. Why do you think I stated that none of these books were printed by the Watchtower? Because I knew some would protest which I do not care at all if you wish to be ignorant of historical items of interest. The books I listed are ALL the ones that the Watchtower has ever quoted from in the last +100 years in my library all of which I have read and studied. I have not only studied all the Watchtower publications in existence but all the books ever quoted by said religion. And I have come to the conclusion that of the +2,000 religions on earth there is only ONE GOD and therefore ONE FAITH. And since the vast majority of the religions believe in a Trinity makes it quite apparent to me that it is false since Satan is "misleading the entire earth". So the "majority" at this time would not have truth but falsehood. Of course the only real question is "Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?" And my response is - How could it possibly be since the writers were all Jews who do not believe in a Trinity and no Trinitarian for whatever reason has been able to prove by any Scripture that the Trinity even exists in the Bible...WHY is that? OMALY said: You also do realize that concepts about triad groupings of gods are not the same as the Trinity idea, don't you? How do you define your Trinity then and where is it in YOUR Bible? I realize there are many different types and definitions of the Trinity almost as many as the number of religions in the world. But since there is only ONE God that should tell you something. LOL

Where did the Trinitarians go?

Yes thank you all who are publicizing about Jehovah and His people even if you hate them

In the original post the point I was making is that Jesus can be called "God" because "the angel of the Lord" {Jehovah's angel} was also called God but obviously according to context and harmony we all know angels are not GOD. The point I am making is GOD is merely a TITLE that can be applied to others including Jesus but that does not make them all the same person or "God".

Yup they are probably gnashing their teeth. Many will need dental surgery soon.

Also 2 Cor. 4:4 says Satan is the "god of this world". And "God or god is preceded by the definite article "the" so according to John 1:1 Satan would also be GOD. Of course thankfully Bible translators do not go by just "grammar" but also many other things such as Bible harmony and context since everyone KNOWS Satan is not THE GOD !

Just quoting the "Reasoning" book. Page 213 :"Does Thomas’ exclamation at John 20:28 prove that Jesus is truly God? John 20:28 (RS) reads: “Thomas answered him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” There is no objection to referring to Jesus as “God,” if this is what Thomas had in mind" I would love to stay on topic of the Trinity in the Bible but COS will not give any Scriptures in the Bible. Sorry about the fish thingy but I was bored.

Latest JW Broadcast confirms that indeed many are now becoming interested in Jehovah's Witnesses because of the lies of Christendom's Churches and the anti-cultist and the actions of the Government of Russia: https://tv.jw.org/#en/mediaitems/LatestVideos/pub-jwb_201705_16_VIDEO

Something fishy here "the one called Devil+ and Satan,+ who is misleading the entire inhabited earth" Rev. 12

Also about the early Christians that COS brings up here is more info {Again not printed from Watchtower publications]: A History Of Christianity {Latourette}: This is a great history book dealing with the beliefs of the early Christians of the first few Centuries. The REMARKABLE similarities between the early Christians mentioned in this book and Jehovah's Witnesses is astounding. Here are just a few of what this 724 page book mentions : 1. Jesus and early Christians were non-political. 2. Apostasy developed after first century. 3. Early Christians did not compromise with pagan festivals. 4. Early Christians did not partake of military service. 5. Early Christians had no creeds. 6. Early Christian congregations had more than one elder later changed to one Bishop. 7. Early Christians had no clergy class. 8. Every early Christian was a minister [priest]. 9. Early Christians did not celebrate Easter, Christmas. 10. Early Christians had a vivid belief in the nearness of the end of the world. 11. Early Christian monetary contributions were voluntary. 12. Early Christians had a strict view of entertainment. 13. Early Christians were a united brotherhood. 14. Divorce only allowed if adultery committed. 15. Early Christians had an zealous ardent desire to share their beliefs with others. and 16. Early Christians believed in disfellowshipping wrongdoers and then reinstatement after some time if repentant. And much more! The Watchtower Society has quoted many times from this book regarding the beliefs noted above. As you can see this history book of the Christians of the first century comparing with later centuries shows that Jehovah's Witnesses have restored the true Biblical first century Christian beliefs. This book is by Kenneth Scott Latourette and is in good condition [1975] with a few pages with writing or underlining. http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-History-Of-Christianity-Watchtower-Research-Apostasy-Trinity-War-Disfellowship/391753361009 Here is a list of many more books also dealing with this subject {Again none are printed by the Watchtower}: Early Christianity Belief and History The Rise Of Christianity A History of Christianity Josephus Tacitus Annals of Imperial Rome Who Was A Jew The Early Church and the World Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine On The Road To Civilization Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine Preachers Present Arms [Abrams] World History, the Story of Mans Achievements [Habberton] Christianity and the Roman Government [Hardy] The March of Civilization, Ancient and Medieval World [Wrench] The Church the Gospel and War [Jones] The Ante-Nicene Fathers vol. 3 [Roberts, Donaldson] The Early Fathers on War and Military Service [Swift] Early Church History to the Death of Constantine [Backhouse, Tylor] History of Christianity [Gibbon] A Short Hostory of Rome [Ferrero] The New Worlds Foundations in the Old [West] Those About To Die [Manniz] A History of Christianity [Wolff] Caesar and Christ [Will Durant] Treasury of the Christian World [Nasby] The Beginnings of Christianity [Craig] Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine Christianity in Talmud and Midrash God and Man in Washington Beyond Good Intentions Early Christian Attitude to War A History of Christianity It Is Not Lawful For Me To Fight The Court and the Constitution God Versus Ceasar The American Character The Lustre of Our Country On The Road To Civilization Judaism and Christianity in the Age of Constantine Preachers Present Arms [Abrams] World History, the Story of Mans Achievements [Habberton] Christianity and the Roman Government [Hardy] The March of Civilization, Ancient and Medieval World [Wrench] The Church the Gospel and War [Jones] The Ante-Nicene Fathers vol. 3 [Roberts, Donaldson] The Early Fathers on War and Military Service [Swift] Early Church History to the Death of Constantine [Backhouse, Tylor] History of Christianity [Gibbon] A Short Hostory of Rome [Ferrero] The New Worlds Foundations in the Old [West] Those About To Die [Manniz] A History of Christianity [Wolff] Caesar and Christ [Will Durant] Treasury of the Christian World [Nasby] Armed With the Constitution [Newton] State And Salvation The Jehovah's Witnesses and their Fight For Civil Rights [Kaplan] Varieties of Religious Repression : Why Governments Restrict Religion {Sarkissian} To The Flag The Unlikely History of the Pledge of Alligiance The Courage of Their Convictions Salute! The Case of the Bible VS. The Flag The Supreme Court on Church and State Render Unto Caesar The Flag Salute Controversy Marble Palace The Supreme Court in American Life Religious Freedom : Rights and Liberties Under the Law http://www.ebay.com/sch/lisa.joeywit/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Thanks James

For more info on the fish god of Christendom and the pagan trinity god see these books [none of which are printed by Jehovah's Witnesses]: Pagan Origins of Trinity and Religious Teachings from my library: God The Invisible King [H.G. Wells] Sacred Origins A History of Christianity Role of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation Many Witnesses One Lord Christianity and World Religions Dictionary of the Bible [McKenzie] Trinitys Weak Links Revealed The Non-Christian Cross Encyclopedia of American Folklore Extraordinary Origins The American Character When Jesus Became God Two Babylons [Hislop] The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture Jesus God or the Son of God The Patristic Gospels Bible Myths and Parallels in Other Religions [Doane] The Paganism in Our Christianity [Weigall] Witch Hunts in the Western World Concepts of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit Popes Visit Time Life Morals and Missiles Religion of Babylonia and Assyria Religions Babylonian Assyrian [Hooke] Dawn of Civilization [Engberg] Ancient Pagan Christian Symbolism 1594 De Cruce Justus Lipsius Chronicles of the Unholy Fathers Halloween From Pagan Ritual to Party Night Sacred Origins Pagan Traditions The Christian Book of Why Extraordinary Origins Halloween American Holiday Two Babylons [ Hislop] Christmas in America [Restad] Pagan and Christian Creeds [Carpenter] Christmas Customs and Traditions [Miles] Stories Behind the Great Traditions of Christmas [Collins] Toward the Origins of Christmas [Roll] Bible Myths and Parallels in Other Religions [Doane] Myths of the Sun...Concerning teh Sun and its Worship [Olcott] The Golden Bough [Frazer] The Paganism in Our Christianity [Weigall] How It Started [Garrison] The Battle For Christmas [Nissenbaum] http://www.ebay.com/gds/Collecting-Watchtower-Research-Books-/10000000188341192/g.html Revelation 18: Babylon the Great has fallen,+ and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit* and every unclean and hated bird lurks!+ 3 For because of the wine of the passion* of her sexual immorality,* all the nations have fallen victim,+ and the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her,+ and the merchants* of the earth became rich owing to the power of her shameless luxury.”4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people,+ if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.+ 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven,+ and God has called her acts of injustice* to mind.+ 6 Repay her in the way she treated others,+ yes, pay her back double for the things she has done;+ in the cup+ she has mixed, mix a double portion for her.+ 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’+ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire,+ because Jehovah*God, who judged her, is strong.+9 “And the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality* with her and lived with her in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke from her burning. 10 They will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say: ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city,+ Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’11 “Also, the merchants of the earth are weeping and mourning over her, because there is no one to buy their full cargo anymore, 12 a full cargo of gold, silver, precious stones, pearls, fine linen, purple cloth, silk, and scarlet cloth; and everything made from scented wood; and every sort of object made from ivory, and from precious wood, copper, iron, and marble; 13 also cinnamon, Indian spice, incense, perfumed oil, frankincense, wine, olive oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle, sheep, horses, carriages, slaves, and human lives.* 14 Yes, the fine fruit that you* desired has left you, and all the delicacies and the splendid things have vanished from you, never to be found again.15 “The merchants who sold these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, 16 saying: ‘Too bad, too bad, the great city, clothed with fine linen, purple, and scarlet and richly adorned with gold ornaments, precious stones, and pearls,+ 17 because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’“And every ship captain and every seafaring person and sailors and all those who make a living by the sea stood at a distance 18 and cried out as they looked at the smoke from her burning and said: ‘What city is like the great city?’ 19 They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and mourning, and said: ‘Too bad, too bad, the great city, in which all those who had ships at sea became rich from her wealth, because in one hour she has been devastated!’+20 “Be glad over her, O heaven,+ also you holy ones+ and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced his judgment on her in your behalf!”+21 And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.+ 22 And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp, of musicians, of flutists, and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again. And no craftsman who practices any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again. 23 No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; for your merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, and by your spiritistic practices+ all the nations were misled. 24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones+ and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”+

About COS' Fish god : Hatmehyt Her name can be translated as "she who is in front of the fishes" or "Foremost of the fish". This could either suggest that she was the most important of the (few) fish cults, or that she was considered to be the oldest fish deity. She was sometimes depicted as a fish (either a dolphin or a lepidotus fish) or a woman with a "Fish" emblem on her head. Doesn't the POPE have a headpiece also with a fish emblem on it. The very religion that believes your Trinity?

Please do FROM THE BIBLE [JOHN 17:17]. Should not the definition of God actually be IN THE BIBLE? It is not rocket science. If you cannot define your Trinity with the Bible then whats the point of this discussion at all. I mean you do believe your Trinity is in the BIBLE don't you??? Then show us Scriptures to prove it. There are Tens of Thousands of Scriptures in the Bible and you can't even find ONE? You do own a Bible I hope since you are trying to prove that your God is in there? No one cares about what some scholars wrote years after the Bible was written. If you cannot demonstrate your teaching is from the Bible then your teaching is false for "God's WORD is TRUTH" Jn. 17:17.

That is true after all the "word" Trinity is not used about your god until hundreds of years AFTER the Bible was written. Why is that? If the Bible writers believed in your false god called Trinity then why didn't they say anything about it? Dose it even occur to you that maybe the Bible writers who were all Jews and did not believe in your false god did not mention it because they do not believe in it? Why should they believe in your false god when they are the ones who left Egypt in the first place to get away from false religion such as the Trinity of Horus, Isis and Osiris. You obviously enjoy the false religious teachings of Egypt. Not just the Trinity but perhaps even other teachings such as the Immortality of the Soul. We all know you continue to display your Egyptian hieroglyph of the fish god at the end of your paragraphs. There is only ONE GOD not a fish or a three-headed war-mongering people-burner.

Correct. Where do you allow a 13,000 pound elephant to sit? Wherever he wants to. Isa. 55:8

Sorry I did not mean to get you so upset with a question. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah." Isa. 55:8

So the point is: Are Jehovah's Witnesses the true religion or not? A simple yes or no, a book is not necessary to answer the question.

Do you think the WAY Jehovah handled the incident with Abraham and Issac should have been handled in a different WAY? I mean "tying up" a "boy" and then holding a knife to him seems like what some would call "Child Abuse". Some would say it was petulant, overreaching, CRUEL and created FEAR! Was it RIGHT for Jehovah to do that? Why would we think that our Way of doing something is better than God's Way just because it is not according to human norms in todays' society, the very society norms under the influence of Satan. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah." Isa. 55:8 Or what about when Jesus said to eat his blood and flesh without any explanation after all what Jesus said was wrong according to the Bible - to eat blood and flesh. He ALLOWED many to leave without even explaining himself. Was that the RIGHT WAY to handle it? How would YOU have handled it differently? You see the point is not the" WAY IT IS DONE" at all is it? It is LOYALTY to Jehovah's WAY whether we understand it or not.

That is correct. So why don't you do that yourself. Is the reason you don't use the Bible to prove your Trinity because you know that the writers were all Jews and Jews do not believe in a Trinity? The First Century Christian Bible writers ONLY used the Old Testament {YOUR OWN ADMISSION - "JEWISH OT"!!!!!} which was written by JEWS. Every single book in fact written by Jews. The enemies of the Jews believed in the Trinity, such as the Egyptians and Babylonians. Now think if the Trinitarians were on the wrong side thousands of years ago what makes you think you are on the right side today when it is the BIBLE that we are suppose to get the truth from. "Your WORD is TRUTH" John 17:17 - not Church Fathers. Of course I do not want to assume you would be with the non-trinitarian Jews at the time of the Exodus. Perhaps you would have been with your religious compatriots and would be with the fishes at the bottom of the Red Sea. Is that why you use a fish hieroglyph {Hatmehyt <><} like the Trinitarian Egyptians did who also worshiped many animals instead of the ONE TRUE GOD JEHOVAH? Deut. 6:4 "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the WATERS BELOW." Exodus 20:4 NIV.

So Why do you continue to go to a source OUTSIDE the Bible to try and prove your false teaching? At lease quote a source that uses the word "Trinity", not that it matters since the writers of the Bible did not believe in a Trinity. Whatever Clement meant or believed and wrote after the Bible was written at the time the apostasy had occurred actually proves the "Trinity" came after the Bible was written by your own admission. Try using the BIBLE so you won't look so ignorant of the facts !!! "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." Acts 20:29,30.

Here is a thought. Why would the Government give a gun to an "extremist" and tell him to fight for his country? Does not add up = paradox.