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bruceq

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  1. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I'll try to do some research on it. It has been about 30 years since I have on this particular subject and I don't remember and am quite busy with pioneering and stuff. The Watchtower I believe has not said anything about it since about 1987 questions from readers if I recall...but nothing since so it is not probably an area of interest anymore anyway. Although they never have said it was untrue or changed. {Although the type/antitype may come to mind here}  But like I said we may never know if it is true until we get there and perhaps not even then since the Bible does not directly mention it. And it dosent' actually matter to gain everlasting life. But it is fun to research anyway. I do remeber it going back over 2,000 years to time of Philo {a Jew} and he got it from somewhere earlier and ill try and find some resources for that. {Point is it's origin was not Christian but predated Christianity as Philo died in 50 C.E.]
  2. Thanks
    bruceq reacted to bruceq in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    (Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 
  3. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Nana Fofana in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Only 50 Translations. lol try +200 Translations - http://www.ebay.com/gds/Collecting-Watchtower-Research-Books-/10000000188341192/g.html
    (Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 
  4. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from Nana Fofana in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    (Philippians 4:8) 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering these things. 
  5. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Ok M'dear,
    Thanks Nana for quoting: The Babylonian Chronicles: Classification and Provenance
    There are many sources which gives the end of Cyrus' rule as 530 BCE. To quote " Insight on the Scriptures:
    "The date of 539 B.C.E. for the fall of Babylon can be arrived at not only by Ptolemy’s canon but by other sources as well. The historian Diodorus, as well as Africanus and Eusebius, shows that Cyrus’ first year as king of Persia corresponded to Olympiad 55, year 1 (560/559 B.C.E.), while Cyrus’ last year is placed at Olympiad 62, year 2 (531/530 B.C.E.).
    Cuneiform tablets give Cyrus a rule of nine years over Babylon, which would therefore substantiate the year 539 as the date of his conquest of Babylon.—Handbook of Biblical Chronology, by Jack Finegan, 1964, pp. 112, 168-170; Babylonian Chronology, 626 B.C.–A.D. 75, p. 14; 
    Cyrus died 530 + 9 year rule over Babylon before he died - he conquered Babylon in 539 BCE. Which is also the year for the battle of OPIS according to Babylonian Chronicles. This date is accurate!
     
    Regarding a comment the other threads:
    I do not buy this idea that a totally innocent person was dis-fellowshipped.   Although brothers are asked not to 'talk' about things - there must have been witnesses to some unbecoming or compromising situations or behavior - and these witnesses could have spoken out of place - given reasons secretly to friends.... and it spread like wild fire.    
    I was not there but I firmly believe that when people start deviating from the straight and narrow path and repeat this behavior (it is a practice of a behavior not a mistake which gets a person dis-fellowshipped)  then Jehovah (and the angels) usually gives them time to confess - AFTER which he withdraws his spirit.  When people lose Jehovah's spirit they become arrogant,  defiant or put themselves in opposition to the organization.  So there could have been other behavior which triggered a Judas-like attitude - apart form the disagreements about time-lines. 
    Judas was practicing a wrong attitude for a long time because he was stealing money over a time period. He could have confessed but he kept it secret - which lead to him to become so angry when satan entered him- and he betrayed Jesus.
     
     
     
  6. Haha
    bruceq reacted to JW Insider in No! Please!! Not another thread about 1914!!!   
    Threadmeister? Great. I hereby rule that no one can make more than two posts in this thread containing lyrics from My Fair Lady. 
    So show me you understand, and, if you did it, then just you wait because I know the street where you live, and with a little bit of luck, we'll carry on without you. But right now, I've got a customer to face.
  7. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    The reason why you cannot accept 539 BCE as the only secular date which is truly verified is because you use mainly Babylonian sources to try to verify the date and their dates are all over the place - not reliable (reigns which are too long and impossible to correlate etc.)
    The Persian and Greek sources gets us to the truth.  Please look up when the battle of OPIS took place and between who....?  This took place before Cyrus went right into Babylon.
    This will give you a good idea why 537 BCE is correct for the return of the Jews to Jerusalem - which in turn proves that 607 BCE and 1914 is accurate.
    The reason for the 'myopia' is an inability to accept that the slave (very imperfect and uneducated though they may be) may just have made a big mistake and accidentally got it RIGHT - because Jehovah was guiding them. The problems came when someone's ego got the better of them and they abused their power and were removed.... 
    All the knowledge in the world cannot fight against the knowledge of Jehovah... and he can use his spirit to assist who he wants?  When a "mistake" (some people used their influence to say it is a mistake) turns out to be spot on later - as more historical facts were opened up - is it not quite revealing?  Don't you agree? 
    Even if you feel you have "special insight" this does not mean that you have.   The ability to show the 'fruits' is cooperation, to subject your free will to Jehovah and help with the preaching work - become a slave of Jehovah and help the rest of his "slave".  (A slave has no personal power but has to do as he is told - the preaching).  Personally I would refuse to go out with someone who does not accept that Jehovah is guiding his people or "recognize" the 'slave' because we have to "help" our brothers with the commission they were given.
    ANOTHER important question: How would you run such a large organization as ours when you have no special business training and you are responsible for the management and written content which goes out into the entire world; massive operations on a large scale and all on donations.....You have to try to manage other problems in congregations too - on top of millions of laws in every different country etc etc.  Did they fail in some aspects or re-act instead of being pro-active?  Of course they did.  CEOs do not even get it right...
    CEOs which earn literally millions of dollars per year do not get it right and move around from company to company (we know what is going on in the banking industry and many Fortune 500 companies - don't we?)  and.......they do not have to cope with Satan's focus on them, trying to undermine the smooth daily operations set in place.  Some upstart - which you trusted and put in a trusted position - comes and wants to disrupt everything and starts a little group because he now has superior insight and becomes rebellious.  (Satan did the same thing to Jehovah because Jehovah is mild tempered and kind).  I think those put in place of responsibility would be hurt and shocked but in the end would guard the heritage of Jehovah -  put this first.  Would you not? And there will be some who will be taken in by this rebellion - will they not? 
    Our history was not clean from the start - we recognize that completely.  And while they Russel and friends fumbled in the dark they accepted teachings from other religions which were in line with scripture.  In their ignorance they were determined to be guided to bring the truth to others. The immortality of the soul was one of the first teachings they rejected and we all know the reason why Russel stopped publishing with his associates and went out on his own to create the watchtower.
    It was only after some cleansing of their teachings (Jehovah inspected them - where does that fit in with your dates?) that Jehovah appointed them as the slave.  They will guard the heritage they have received and try to keep the organization clean from anyone who tries to destroy it.
    Has everything gone perfect in its management - NO.  Was there injustices - maybe?  But the main focus should be the preaching and the vindication of the true name of god and his promises.
    I suspect we will see many more actions by Satan to discredit Jehovah and his organization (run by uneducated, imperfect men) before the final end - and he will use brothers with the spirit of Judas to do this.   If anyone in this circle does not think that we are going to have a terrible time of it - think again.
    The forces of Satan is stacking up against us and the world has become a very violent place - and it is escalating. When they finally lash out at us they will be happy to find some soft target to vent all their anger against. 
    LAST THOUGHT:  Is there any other Christian organization on earth which is unitedly preaching the good news of the kingdom as indicated in prophecy about the time of the end in Matt 24:14.    The proof is there!  To me it is a miracle!  
    There are so many secret organizations with most of the worlds money in their pockets, who want the world to be united in ONE government.  There are many religions who want to rule the world and are prepared to use the sword to obtain it.  There are forces moving in the EU and the UN which is trying to bring in laws to control all people.  When this happens - we will be told to stop preaching.... and our neutrality will also become an issue........ it will be an attack.... but we will see great apostasy before this.  
     
     
     
     
  8. Confused
    bruceq got a reaction from Anna in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    Yes What is LOYALTY? Loyalty is not being married to your wife {Jehovah's Witness} and looking at the prettier smarter girl and having a "passion for her" {obsession with the teachings of Christendom being promoted here}. I think Jehovah wants EXCLUSIVE devotion and that includes the TRUE faith. Matt. 5:28 {Already committed disloyalty in your HEART}. 
  9. Thanks
    bruceq reacted to JW Insider in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    Congratulations, seriously!!
  10. Haha
  11. Like
    bruceq got a reaction from ComfortMyPeople in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    We? You promote Christendom's chronology. {And your constant complaining and disdain and bad attitude to those taking the lead in Jehovah's Organization}  I was just appointed a Ministerial Servant so I am not as experienced and as smart as you who is as you say an ex Bethelite but I know what Loyalty is.
  12. Haha
    bruceq got a reaction from AllenSmith in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    21  "In that very hour he became overjoyed in the holy spirit and said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved". Luke 10:21.   " but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame";  1 Cor. 1:27.   Gotta love the foolishness of Jehovah's Witnesses and their Governing Body to give us Jehovah's "revealed" interpretation rather than Christendom's haughty teachers and internet bloggers who promote and agree with them.    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/402015202   Hydrogen and Oxygen are both flammable. But when you put them together H2O then they can put fire out = UNITY. 1 Cor. 1:10 and Ps. 133, Rev. 7:17.   https://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/respect-jehovahs-authority/#?insight[search_id]=2e3e97e6-1b34-49fb-bf32-013cebc18ec1&insight[search_result_index]=2    
  13. Thanks
    bruceq reacted to bruceq in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    What Is Babylon the Great?
    00:00   04:25 Download
    Audio recordings download options MP3 The BibleÂ’s answer
    Babylon the Great, described in the book of Revelation, is the world’s collective body of false religions, which God rejects. * (Revelation 14:8;17:5; 18:21) Although those religions differ in many respects, in one way or another they all lead people away from the worship of the true God, Jehovah.—Deuteronomy 4:35.
    Keys to identifying Babylon the Great
    Babylon the Great is a symbol. The Bible describes her as “a woman” and a “great prostitute,” having a name that is “a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great.’” (Revelation 17:1, 3, 5) The book of Revelation is presented “in signs,” so it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is a symbol, not a literal woman. (Revelation 1:1) In addition, she “sits on many waters,” which represent “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” (Revelation 17:1, 15) A literal woman could not do that.
    Babylon the Great represents an international entity. She is called “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” (Revelation 17:18) Thus, she has international scope and influence.
    Babylon the Great is a religious entity, not a political or commercial one. Ancient Babylon was a profoundly religious city, known for its use of spiritistic “spells” and “sorceries.” (Isaiah 47:1,12, 13; Jeremiah 50:1, 2, 38) In fact, false religion in opposition to the true God, Jehovah, was practiced there. (Genesis 10:8, 9; 11:2-4, 8) The rulers of Babylon arrogantly exalted themselves above Jehovah and his worship. (Isaiah 14:4, 13, 14; Daniel 5:2-4, 23) Likewise, Babylon the Great is known for her “spiritistic practices.” That shows her to be a religious organization.—Revelation 18:23.
    Babylon the Great cannot be a political entity, because “the kings of the earth” mourn her destruction. (Revelation 17:1, 2; 18:9) Neither is she a commercial power, because the Bible distinguishes her from “the merchants of the earth.”—Revelation 18:11, 15.
      Stela of Babylonian King Nabonidus with symbols of the triad of gods Sin, Ishtar, and Shamash
    Babylon the Great fits the profile of false religion. Rather than teaching people how to draw closer to the true God, Jehovah, false religion actually leads them to worship other gods. The Bible calls this “spiritual prostitution.” (Leviticus 20:6; Exodus 34:15, 16) Beliefs such as the Trinity and the immortality of the soul and practices such as the use of images in worship date back to ancient Babylon and continue to permeate false religion. These religions also blend their worship with love for the world. The Bible refers to this form of unfaithfulness as spiritual adultery.—James 4:4.
    False religion’s wealth and showy display of it match the picture that the Bible paints of Babylon the Great, who is “clothed in purple and scarlet” and “adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls.” (Revelation 17:4) Babylon the Great is the source of “the disgusting things of the earth,” or the teachings and actions that actually dishonor God. (Revelation 17:5) The members of false religion are the “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues” who support Babylon the Great.—Revelation 17:15.
    Babylon the Great is responsible for the deaths “of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.” (Revelation 18:24) Throughout history, false religion has not only fomented wars and fueled acts of terrorism but has also failed to teach people the truth about Jehovah, the God of love. (1 John 4:8) This failure has contributed to much bloodshed. For good reason, those who want to please God must “get out of her,” separating themselves from false religion.—Revelation 18:4;2 Corinthians 6:14-17.
    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/babylon-the-great/
  14. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    What preaching campaign did he or the other man go on to found?
    Look, I understand that the above question could be seen as blowing off research and reveling in ignorance. But as @Arauna has helped us to see, 'scientific research' in this system of things is no more than the children's game 'King of the Mountain' to prove "who's da man?" - not unlike those big, stupid, (blush) male animals ramming each other with their horns. The victors shove everyone else off the field. It happens everywhere in science. The fault does not lie in science, but in those who put slavish faith in it. Today's science is trumped by human politics - call it 'male ego' if you must - every time, so that it must be taken with a grain of salt.
    How is anybody like me ever going to know this? They are not. They are safeguarded only when they assume that 'science,' like everything else in this system of things, is contaminated, and must not be relied upon as an absolute.
    So it goes back to 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 dissing those who rely on their education and 'facts.' Other verses expand upon it. Jesus says "whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life." What a stupid thing to say IF his main concern is to persuade devotees of 'facts!'  But if his prime concern is, not heads, but hearts, then it is flawless.
    So you put your efforts into the preaching work and trust in God, who does not appear overly concerned that his people are RIGHT in the eyes of contemporary scholarship. Sometimes that stuff changes, even though it be a tsunami. it reverses course and goes right back into the hole from which it came.
  15. Like
    bruceq reacted to TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    I like the bunker video in which the elder reflects at home how he groused at counsel from another elder. His wife says: "please tell me that you didn't argue with him."   (perhaps not a direct quote due to memory, but very close)
    It's a little like when we decided to home-school our children and decided the question "you think you can do better than the professional educators?" was not the correct one to ask. "How can we do worse?" fit better. (city schools then, as now, were absolutely dismal in performance, despite non-stop declarations of 'reform' - each one of which is taken as a fait accompli) So it is with women. The question is not: "How can they do better than the men?" It is "how can they do worse?"
    I also like (this time it is an exact quote) this statement from the August broadcast: "Right down to our day, rarely have women been afforded the dignity that God wants them to receive. However, Jehovah makes clear in his word the Bible that women and men have equal standing before him. In fact, he indicated that women would play a vital role in the outworking of his purpose."
  16. Like
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Sometimes we have to clean out the puss before a wound can heal.  Cleaning the wound is painful..... but the results are so much better!  Thanks M'dear!   
  17. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Just would like to mention:  
    "The Soncino Press also published the Soncino Talmud (1935–1952), the Soncino Midrash Rabbah and the Soncino Zohar (1934) all of which were translations of the Talmud, Midrash Rabbah, and Zohar, respectively. Another publication is the Soncino Haggadah, a translation and commentary on the Haggadah by Cecil Roth."
     
    While it is good to look at Josephus and other historians when one looks at Jewish tradition - be very careful of the Talmud, Kabbalah and Zohar and people who associate these rabbinical writings with the Torah (books of Moses).
    Just type into Google "Talmud and Jesus" and you will get the shock of your life.  The Kabbalah and Zohar in my mind is pure spiritism.
    Today the Talmud is called the 'holy book' and the kabbalah the most holy book. Most Rabbis study the kabbalah.   I understand why the Quran is so hateful to all non-believers because the Jews were believing in the 'oral tradition' which Jesusrejected. These were first written down in the Mishnah and further in the Talmud which has commentaries on the commentaries. Muhammad stole his ideas from these extreme laws.
    After the temple was destroyed the Jews had no temple to worship at.  The Rabbis devised a system of traditions, rituals and superiority teachings which keep the Jewish nation separate from all other nations.  Ever tried to talk to a Jew about the Truth? You will see how quickly you are rebuffed.  The Muslims have a similar system whereby the leaders have total control over the people and their word is like the word of God.
    Be careful of the mindset of these books!  That is all I have to say.... 
  18. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Apologies if I sounded sexist..... but for a woman in a man's world I saw the male ego in action too often. So I learnt to distinguish its manifestations very quickly..... having the word of Jehovah to measure it by....
    After working as a reporter for many years I worked in PR and publicity for many years.  1) For an umbrella organization which managed 9 museums: Board meetings and PHDs doing research in various fields.  I saw the infighting, the egos and the academic "integrity" first hand. So this is why I am skeptical of academics ..... just as our dear friend is skeptical about the "slave." History is always written by the victors - remember that.  After the infighting ends - it is the view of the victors that are presented....
    2) After this I worked for an umbrella organization which managed 15 technical universities.   Learnt a tremendous amount there and could put my hands on rare books from the library.
    So what has this to do with our thread?  The male ego-itis  (females also have this sickness but is displays in other ways)  unexpectedly rears its ugly head ... as I said earlier.  I have seen individual brothers display this quality (not often - but it is often those with high secular positions/education who have the boardroom skills to play good servers in meetings) because they are still imperfect human beings. It will not be stamped out completely until the end of 1000 years... and all too often witnesses still respect people too much who have worldly skills instead of the humble spiritual brothers . People are people..... and hopefully they gradually put on the new personality and learn to distinguish godly qualities. 
    I can see a good dose of male - ego-itis and OCD here in this thread and the fact that only SECULAR dates are accepted by certain bloggers.... and this takes precedence over the Bible and the slave.
    I happen to know the history of Archeology as a science.  It started exactly 200 years ago when Napoleon went into Egypt and the entire world "woke up" to the fact that there are cities under mounds which can prove the Bible correct.  Unfortunately the "science" was not there and for many years they damaged the "basis of the history" by their unscientific methods.  They also made very UNscientific 'assumptions' about dates.  One mistake is the Egyptology dating - which is contested heavily today by "renegade" scientists with the result: they are not allowed on digs in Egypt because there are powers/academics in control that do not allow this. So much for the "science" of it.
    Contrary to assurances that Babylonian chronology is accurate - it is NOT.  Babylonian chronology has to fit in with Pharaoh Necho's dates among others - so this is corroborated (they know the dynasty lines and years of rule) but the dates fit in with Egyptology........ this is why the dates do not give a full 70 year period for the exiled Jews. (the bible says 70 years).  
    However! The ONE secular date which is scientifically agreed upon by most scholars is the date of the announcement for the return of the Jews from Babylon (give a year) as discussed above.
    To my mind - if you are a good scientist and you are a good Biblical scholar - you would adjust all Biblical dates according to THIS date because it is the MOST accurate ancient secular date.... and this is what the organization has done!   So - to continually go back to the maze of OTHER secular dates and the slave's "incompetence" ? .......this is someone who does not accept the slave and does not really want to adjust their thinking and accept there is dodgy secular evidence out there.  
    If we accept the secular date of 538 BCE (give one or two years for them getting ready and travel to return to Jerusalem) then the 70th year before this falls on 607 BCE and also gives one 1914 - which is proved by undeniable evidence on the ground.  
    If you want to put your faith in secular dates and in their processes and in this action deny the invisible KINGdom establishment in 1914 - do so.  The analysis of 'words' to try to fit another theory is interesting - but it is merely a major hurricane in a tea-cup- because it has not convincing at all! .... especially because the real evidence is already on ground zero!
     
     
     
  19. Like
    bruceq reacted to TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    How does this fit with 1 Corinthians 1:26-29?
    "For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, so that no one might boast in the sight of God."
    I'm not on familiar ground here, as I had never heard of COJ prior to this discussion, though I knew there must be someone to fill his role.  To the extent there is an appeal that the intelligencia are the only ones qualified on such things, God appears contemptuous of it. He not only puts up with the foolish things of the world - he chooses them over the 'wise men.'  Pure academic 'muscle' carries little weight with him, much less 'credentials.' It doesn't quite make sense to me, but there it is.
    The twelve were decidedly not intellectuals. They were 'workmen' who had learned to handle the Word aright. Paul had intellectual cred, but I would not be quick to suppose he thereby did all the brainwork. He took direction from his educational inferiors. Plus, his lasting stature is not that he was an in-house thinker. He was primarily a doer, whereas the superfine apostles who were always trying to thwart him, boasting of their credentials, were not.
    There is the biblical scholarship that starts on the premise that the biblical sayings are innocent (of untruth) until proven guilty, and biblical scholarship that presumes them guilty until proven innocent. It makes a difference in the conclusions derived, just as it does in the justice system.
    I should do research to see if this COJ was a doer like Paul, or did he mainly fancy himself an in-house thinker? But probably someone will clarify this for me.
  20. Upvote
    bruceq reacted to TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    There is such a thing as 'God,' you know.
  21. Like
    bruceq reacted to Arauna in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    Let Jehovah fly the plane - do not do it yourself!
  22. Upvote
    bruceq got a reaction from JW Insider in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    What Is Babylon the Great?
    00:00   04:25 Download
    Audio recordings download options MP3 The BibleÂ’s answer
    Babylon the Great, described in the book of Revelation, is the world’s collective body of false religions, which God rejects. * (Revelation 14:8;17:5; 18:21) Although those religions differ in many respects, in one way or another they all lead people away from the worship of the true God, Jehovah.—Deuteronomy 4:35.
    Keys to identifying Babylon the Great
    Babylon the Great is a symbol. The Bible describes her as “a woman” and a “great prostitute,” having a name that is “a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great.’” (Revelation 17:1, 3, 5) The book of Revelation is presented “in signs,” so it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is a symbol, not a literal woman. (Revelation 1:1) In addition, she “sits on many waters,” which represent “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” (Revelation 17:1, 15) A literal woman could not do that.
    Babylon the Great represents an international entity. She is called “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” (Revelation 17:18) Thus, she has international scope and influence.
    Babylon the Great is a religious entity, not a political or commercial one. Ancient Babylon was a profoundly religious city, known for its use of spiritistic “spells” and “sorceries.” (Isaiah 47:1,12, 13; Jeremiah 50:1, 2, 38) In fact, false religion in opposition to the true God, Jehovah, was practiced there. (Genesis 10:8, 9; 11:2-4, 8) The rulers of Babylon arrogantly exalted themselves above Jehovah and his worship. (Isaiah 14:4, 13, 14; Daniel 5:2-4, 23) Likewise, Babylon the Great is known for her “spiritistic practices.” That shows her to be a religious organization.—Revelation 18:23.
    Babylon the Great cannot be a political entity, because “the kings of the earth” mourn her destruction. (Revelation 17:1, 2; 18:9) Neither is she a commercial power, because the Bible distinguishes her from “the merchants of the earth.”—Revelation 18:11, 15.
      Stela of Babylonian King Nabonidus with symbols of the triad of gods Sin, Ishtar, and Shamash
    Babylon the Great fits the profile of false religion. Rather than teaching people how to draw closer to the true God, Jehovah, false religion actually leads them to worship other gods. The Bible calls this “spiritual prostitution.” (Leviticus 20:6; Exodus 34:15, 16) Beliefs such as the Trinity and the immortality of the soul and practices such as the use of images in worship date back to ancient Babylon and continue to permeate false religion. These religions also blend their worship with love for the world. The Bible refers to this form of unfaithfulness as spiritual adultery.—James 4:4.
    False religion’s wealth and showy display of it match the picture that the Bible paints of Babylon the Great, who is “clothed in purple and scarlet” and “adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls.” (Revelation 17:4) Babylon the Great is the source of “the disgusting things of the earth,” or the teachings and actions that actually dishonor God. (Revelation 17:5) The members of false religion are the “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues” who support Babylon the Great.—Revelation 17:15.
    Babylon the Great is responsible for the deaths “of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.” (Revelation 18:24) Throughout history, false religion has not only fomented wars and fueled acts of terrorism but has also failed to teach people the truth about Jehovah, the God of love. (1 John 4:8) This failure has contributed to much bloodshed. For good reason, those who want to please God must “get out of her,” separating themselves from false religion.—Revelation 18:4;2 Corinthians 6:14-17.
    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/babylon-the-great/
  23. Upvote
    bruceq got a reaction from Nana Fofana in Governing Body: Does it show loyalty or disloyalty to question the GB?   
    What Is Babylon the Great?
    00:00   04:25 Download
    Audio recordings download options MP3 The BibleÂ’s answer
    Babylon the Great, described in the book of Revelation, is the world’s collective body of false religions, which God rejects. * (Revelation 14:8;17:5; 18:21) Although those religions differ in many respects, in one way or another they all lead people away from the worship of the true God, Jehovah.—Deuteronomy 4:35.
    Keys to identifying Babylon the Great
    Babylon the Great is a symbol. The Bible describes her as “a woman” and a “great prostitute,” having a name that is “a mystery: ‘Babylon the Great.’” (Revelation 17:1, 3, 5) The book of Revelation is presented “in signs,” so it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is a symbol, not a literal woman. (Revelation 1:1) In addition, she “sits on many waters,” which represent “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.” (Revelation 17:1, 15) A literal woman could not do that.
    Babylon the Great represents an international entity. She is called “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” (Revelation 17:18) Thus, she has international scope and influence.
    Babylon the Great is a religious entity, not a political or commercial one. Ancient Babylon was a profoundly religious city, known for its use of spiritistic “spells” and “sorceries.” (Isaiah 47:1,12, 13; Jeremiah 50:1, 2, 38) In fact, false religion in opposition to the true God, Jehovah, was practiced there. (Genesis 10:8, 9; 11:2-4, 8) The rulers of Babylon arrogantly exalted themselves above Jehovah and his worship. (Isaiah 14:4, 13, 14; Daniel 5:2-4, 23) Likewise, Babylon the Great is known for her “spiritistic practices.” That shows her to be a religious organization.—Revelation 18:23.
    Babylon the Great cannot be a political entity, because “the kings of the earth” mourn her destruction. (Revelation 17:1, 2; 18:9) Neither is she a commercial power, because the Bible distinguishes her from “the merchants of the earth.”—Revelation 18:11, 15.
      Stela of Babylonian King Nabonidus with symbols of the triad of gods Sin, Ishtar, and Shamash
    Babylon the Great fits the profile of false religion. Rather than teaching people how to draw closer to the true God, Jehovah, false religion actually leads them to worship other gods. The Bible calls this “spiritual prostitution.” (Leviticus 20:6; Exodus 34:15, 16) Beliefs such as the Trinity and the immortality of the soul and practices such as the use of images in worship date back to ancient Babylon and continue to permeate false religion. These religions also blend their worship with love for the world. The Bible refers to this form of unfaithfulness as spiritual adultery.—James 4:4.
    False religion’s wealth and showy display of it match the picture that the Bible paints of Babylon the Great, who is “clothed in purple and scarlet” and “adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls.” (Revelation 17:4) Babylon the Great is the source of “the disgusting things of the earth,” or the teachings and actions that actually dishonor God. (Revelation 17:5) The members of false religion are the “peoples and crowds and nations and tongues” who support Babylon the Great.—Revelation 17:15.
    Babylon the Great is responsible for the deaths “of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.” (Revelation 18:24) Throughout history, false religion has not only fomented wars and fueled acts of terrorism but has also failed to teach people the truth about Jehovah, the God of love. (1 John 4:8) This failure has contributed to much bloodshed. For good reason, those who want to please God must “get out of her,” separating themselves from false religion.—Revelation 18:4;2 Corinthians 6:14-17.
    https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/babylon-the-great/
  24. Haha
    bruceq reacted to TrueTomHarley in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    That says it all, IMO. 
    It is the uneasy passenger who tried to redirect the plane - for he has studied flying himself -  and the pilot's response was 'inadequate.'
  25. Downvote
    bruceq reacted to Ann O'Maly in ALL aspects of 1914 doctrine are now problematic from a Scriptural point of view   
    His 'discovery' was, in fact, what had long been already known and established in ANE and biblical scholarship. His downfall was believing that the Society was interested in the truth of the matter. Unfortunately, the responses from HQ were inadequate, rehashing what had already been questioned or rebutted, and they repeated platitudes and promises to address the evidence - which they didn't do. Instead, they urged him to keep quiet and instigated a nasty smear campaign against him. This is what alienated COJ from the org and caused him so much frustration and hurt.
    'In the end the truth will eventually always come out'? The truth had already come out - several times before COJ's treatise. The truth had been flagged up in Russell's day, in Rutherford's day, and many times since, by those inside the org and by never-been-JWs. Even now, had COJ 'waited on Jehovah' to change matters, he would still be waiting - 40 years later. The ones who first alerted Russell to the errors are long dead now. Could it be that Jehovah has been nudging and jabbing the leaders of His people to make corrections all along, but they've been ignoring Him?
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