b4ucuhear

The word "control" comes up because of what was stated in the workbook for the week of November 18-24: "In Jesus' right hand: The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction. If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way." One of the WT references for Rev. 1:20 in the Study Bible adds: "the 'stars' are in Jesus' right hand - within his power, control, favour, and protection. Therefore they are "accountable" to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations."
So, if Jesus controls all the elders like some sort of spiritual remote control by means of holy spirit, (as some may think), then everything that takes place within the organization should be perfect, because Jesus is perfect and would use holy spirit in a perfect way. Why is that of interest? Because too many things happen within the organization (even the early Christian congregation), that are clearly not "controlled" by Jesus - unless he is deliberately controlling them to do bad things. I won't get into detail, but things happen that shouldn't happen and even very unscriptural things happen. My description of the factors that come into play regarding that interplay, attempted to explain the discrepancies that clearly exist if you are not living in a "snow globe." I had mentioned 1 Tim. 5:24 because it plays an important role in helping to understand why bad things can go on within the congregation for decades. All one has to do is look at the way that scripture is true historically to get a better understanding of how it applies today. The fact that elders have a measure of autonomy is hinted at by the phrase: "By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations." So elders make their decision based on "heeding his words" which are contained where? In the Bible - and so are accountable to Jesus as to how they use the authority he gives them. They aren't mindless robots on remote control that can never make mistakes (I know that is an extreme description, but the fact is, that some - too many - people have a mindset that is very close to that. 
To illustrate the difference, consider how Jehovah and Jesus deal with humans. When Jehovah directed Adam to name the animals, he gave him the authority to name them and Adam used his personal discretion as to what to call them. Of course, there would be limits or boundaries to the authority granted Adam (for instance he wouldn't be allowed to call every animal "Jehovah" - right?) But Jehovah didn't control his freedom of choice - even when Adam decided to be disobedient. Or to illustrate further: CONTROL: mom tells Junior to buy everything on a predetermined shopping list. One pound of this, 5 ounces of that...only get the potatoes on sale, bring back a receipt and the change, be back in an hour. AUTONOMOUS AUTHORITY: mom tells junior to buy what he would like for supper and she will make it. (Boundary): Just make it healthy and include the main food groups. 
So Jesus and Jehovah give us laws, principles and boundaries. But they don't remote control our/elders' decisions by means of holy spirit. And as stated earlier, holy spirit can at times be hard to quantify. It played a strong influence in the anointing process, but there were still things early Christians - even miraculously inspired Christians - didn't understand, disagreed with each other about and got wrong. Nothing has changed that way. Not everything Bible writers wrote was included in the Bible canon either. In fact, one of the "gifts" described at 1 Corinthians 1:10, is the ability to miraculously "discern inspired expressions." As the Study Bible comments: "Christians also needed guidance to discern which letters and writings should be circulated among the congregations and to discern which would become part of the Bible canon."
As for your statement: "If Jesus doesn't want to control human behaviour and decisions...why do you think elders have that right?" Answer: They don't have that right. Elders don't have the right to make people's decisions for them. Their role is to encourage people to make decisions that are in harmony with what is directed in God's Word. And to keep the congregation without spot and blemish - even if that means disfellowshipping unrepentant individuals. If Jehovah and Jesus never took away freedom of choice from even Satan and Adam, what makes you think he would direct elders to do that?  Jehovah wants people to serve him willingly out of love. Not because they are remote-controlled robots. However, his servants were always warned that with freedom of choice, comes responsibility and accountability. The "blessing or the malediction."

The problem with suggesting that the "elders are under Jesus' full control, power and direction," is that people can get a skewed idea. Imperfect, uninspired men can become "masters of our faith" rather than "good-for-nothing slaves that are doing what they should." Of course, we respect the "arrangement" God has in place for pure worship and give "double honour" to those taking the lead. But that is a far cry from handing all of our personal thinking, choices and decisions over to imperfect men, thinking they are "fully controlled" by Jesus and anything but is being disobedient to him. Jesus and Jehovah have provided direction in his Word as guidelines for how the congregation should be run. But sometimes men in authority go "beyond what is written" and we should use our "clear thinking faculties" to be able to discern the difference. The fact is, that if one is too lazy to study and read God's Word or are gullible, you can start acting like you are in a cult - even when you are not. Child molesters (yes some have been "elders") get away with their actions for decades - not because Jesus is controlling them to do that, but because children are confused or awed by the authority they have. Even otherwise, at times, men in authority in the organization have assumed too much authority and used that authority in a way they are not authorized scripturally to do. People need to know the difference. "Whole-souled devotion" to Jehovah does not mean whole-souled devotion to imperfect men - even when we respect what authority they have as part of Jehovah's arrangement and offer scriptural obedience. Why? One reason is that some of these men are not who they appear to be (whether they be "wolves in sheep's clothing," "wicked men and imposters," "rocks hidden below the surface..." There is no level of authority within the organization where such men have not been found.) Should we be obedient to them? We need to know the difference when such men (i.e.. apostates or immoral men) direct things not in harmony with Jesus' direction as recorded in the Bible. Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before. No, the reality is that we still have to use our brains. 

And who would you identify as being that group of people? Are there just two or three? Or two hundred and three? Two thousand or three? Who are they? After all, everyone claims to be part of Jesus' flock but Jesus clearly indicated that most who claim to serve him would not actually be approved. And how can you expect to "gather together in my name" with them if you don't even know who they are?
Not really. With all due respect, I'm still waiting for you to answer my simple question whether many words or few. Take as long as you like. (Well, less than "10 years" anyway, cause you know what happens then...;)
Oh, and while we are on the subject, do you also believe that the true anointed will be manifest within 10 years and make the date of the judgment known? And if not, why not? Please back up your answer with scriptural references - especially about the 10 years... 

???
No. But that has already been dealt with. No point in rehashing old ground with people who don't want to listen.
We don't have any clear examples of how you shouldn't drive a car recklessly over the speed limit either, do we? But we do, as has already been stated, have laws, principles... But you already know that, right?
Let's turn that around for a change and give you a chance to explain which flock and congregation YOU think Jesus is head over and how he directs said individuals. It's not enough to snipe from the sidelines. If you've got something better to direct people to, let's have at it. And if the best you can come up with is an anarchy of individual perceptions, let me know so I can start laughing now. 

The problem with suggesting that the "elders are under Jesus' full control, power and direction," is that people can get a skewed idea. Imperfect, uninspired men can become "masters of our faith" rather than "good-for-nothing slaves that are doing what they should." Of course, we respect the "arrangement" God has in place for pure worship and give "double honour" to those taking the lead. But that is a far cry from handing all of our personal thinking, choices and decisions over to imperfect men, thinking they are "fully controlled" by Jesus and anything but is being disobedient to him. Jesus and Jehovah have provided direction in his Word as guidelines for how the congregation should be run. But sometimes men in authority go "beyond what is written" and we should use our "clear thinking faculties" to be able to discern the difference. The fact is, that if one is too lazy to study and read God's Word or are gullible, you can start acting like you are in a cult - even when you are not. Child molesters (yes some have been "elders") get away with their actions for decades - not because Jesus is controlling them to do that, but because children are confused or awed by the authority they have. Even otherwise, at times, men in authority in the organization have assumed too much authority and used that authority in a way they are not authorized scripturally to do. People need to know the difference. "Whole-souled devotion" to Jehovah does not mean whole-souled devotion to imperfect men - even when we respect what authority they have as part of Jehovah's arrangement and offer scriptural obedience. Why? One reason is that some of these men are not who they appear to be (whether they be "wolves in sheep's clothing," "wicked men and imposters," "rocks hidden below the surface..." There is no level of authority within the organization where such men have not been found.) Should we be obedient to them? We need to know the difference when such men (i.e.. apostates or immoral men) direct things not in harmony with Jesus' direction as recorded in the Bible. Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before. No, the reality is that we still have to use our brains. 

Pretty good answer

The word "control" comes up because of what was stated in the workbook for the week of November 18-24: "In Jesus' right hand: The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction. If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way." One of the WT references for Rev. 1:20 in the Study Bible adds: "the 'stars' are in Jesus' right hand - within his power, control, favour, and protection. Therefore they are "accountable" to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations."
So, if Jesus controls all the elders like some sort of spiritual remote control by means of holy spirit, (as some may think), then everything that takes place within the organization should be perfect, because Jesus is perfect and would use holy spirit in a perfect way. Why is that of interest? Because too many things happen within the organization (even the early Christian congregation), that are clearly not "controlled" by Jesus - unless he is deliberately controlling them to do bad things. I won't get into detail, but things happen that shouldn't happen and even very unscriptural things happen. My description of the factors that come into play regarding that interplay, attempted to explain the discrepancies that clearly exist if you are not living in a "snow globe." I had mentioned 1 Tim. 5:24 because it plays an important role in helping to understand why bad things can go on within the congregation for decades. All one has to do is look at the way that scripture is true historically to get a better understanding of how it applies today. The fact that elders have a measure of autonomy is hinted at by the phrase: "By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations." So elders make their decision based on "heeding his words" which are contained where? In the Bible - and so are accountable to Jesus as to how they use the authority he gives them. They aren't mindless robots on remote control that can never make mistakes (I know that is an extreme description, but the fact is, that some - too many - people have a mindset that is very close to that. 
To illustrate the difference, consider how Jehovah and Jesus deal with humans. When Jehovah directed Adam to name the animals, he gave him the authority to name them and Adam used his personal discretion as to what to call them. Of course, there would be limits or boundaries to the authority granted Adam (for instance he wouldn't be allowed to call every animal "Jehovah" - right?) But Jehovah didn't control his freedom of choice - even when Adam decided to be disobedient. Or to illustrate further: CONTROL: mom tells Junior to buy everything on a predetermined shopping list. One pound of this, 5 ounces of that...only get the potatoes on sale, bring back a receipt and the change, be back in an hour. AUTONOMOUS AUTHORITY: mom tells junior to buy what he would like for supper and she will make it. (Boundary): Just make it healthy and include the main food groups. 
So Jesus and Jehovah give us laws, principles and boundaries. But they don't remote control our/elders' decisions by means of holy spirit. And as stated earlier, holy spirit can at times be hard to quantify. It played a strong influence in the anointing process, but there were still things early Christians - even miraculously inspired Christians - didn't understand, disagreed with each other about and got wrong. Nothing has changed that way. Not everything Bible writers wrote was included in the Bible canon either. In fact, one of the "gifts" described at 1 Corinthians 1:10, is the ability to miraculously "discern inspired expressions." As the Study Bible comments: "Christians also needed guidance to discern which letters and writings should be circulated among the congregations and to discern which would become part of the Bible canon."
As for your statement: "If Jesus doesn't want to control human behaviour and decisions...why do you think elders have that right?" Answer: They don't have that right. Elders don't have the right to make people's decisions for them. Their role is to encourage people to make decisions that are in harmony with what is directed in God's Word. And to keep the congregation without spot and blemish - even if that means disfellowshipping unrepentant individuals. If Jehovah and Jesus never took away freedom of choice from even Satan and Adam, what makes you think he would direct elders to do that?  Jehovah wants people to serve him willingly out of love. Not because they are remote-controlled robots. However, his servants were always warned that with freedom of choice, comes responsibility and accountability. The "blessing or the malediction."

The problem with suggesting that the "elders are under Jesus' full control, power and direction," is that people can get a skewed idea. Imperfect, uninspired men can become "masters of our faith" rather than "good-for-nothing slaves that are doing what they should." Of course, we respect the "arrangement" God has in place for pure worship and give "double honour" to those taking the lead. But that is a far cry from handing all of our personal thinking, choices and decisions over to imperfect men, thinking they are "fully controlled" by Jesus and anything but is being disobedient to him. Jesus and Jehovah have provided direction in his Word as guidelines for how the congregation should be run. But sometimes men in authority go "beyond what is written" and we should use our "clear thinking faculties" to be able to discern the difference. The fact is, that if one is too lazy to study and read God's Word or are gullible, you can start acting like you are in a cult - even when you are not. Child molesters (yes some have been "elders") get away with their actions for decades - not because Jesus is controlling them to do that, but because children are confused or awed by the authority they have. Even otherwise, at times, men in authority in the organization have assumed too much authority and used that authority in a way they are not authorized scripturally to do. People need to know the difference. "Whole-souled devotion" to Jehovah does not mean whole-souled devotion to imperfect men - even when we respect what authority they have as part of Jehovah's arrangement and offer scriptural obedience. Why? One reason is that some of these men are not who they appear to be (whether they be "wolves in sheep's clothing," "wicked men and imposters," "rocks hidden below the surface..." There is no level of authority within the organization where such men have not been found.) Should we be obedient to them? We need to know the difference when such men (i.e.. apostates or immoral men) direct things not in harmony with Jesus' direction as recorded in the Bible. Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before. No, the reality is that we still have to use our brains. 

Pretty good answer

The word "control" comes up because of what was stated in the workbook for the week of November 18-24: "In Jesus' right hand: The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction. If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way." One of the WT references for Rev. 1:20 in the Study Bible adds: "the 'stars' are in Jesus' right hand - within his power, control, favour, and protection. Therefore they are "accountable" to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations."
So, if Jesus controls all the elders like some sort of spiritual remote control by means of holy spirit, (as some may think), then everything that takes place within the organization should be perfect, because Jesus is perfect and would use holy spirit in a perfect way. Why is that of interest? Because too many things happen within the organization (even the early Christian congregation), that are clearly not "controlled" by Jesus - unless he is deliberately controlling them to do bad things. I won't get into detail, but things happen that shouldn't happen and even very unscriptural things happen. My description of the factors that come into play regarding that interplay, attempted to explain the discrepancies that clearly exist if you are not living in a "snow globe." I had mentioned 1 Tim. 5:24 because it plays an important role in helping to understand why bad things can go on within the congregation for decades. All one has to do is look at the way that scripture is true historically to get a better understanding of how it applies today. The fact that elders have a measure of autonomy is hinted at by the phrase: "By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations." So elders make their decision based on "heeding his words" which are contained where? In the Bible - and so are accountable to Jesus as to how they use the authority he gives them. They aren't mindless robots on remote control that can never make mistakes (I know that is an extreme description, but the fact is, that some - too many - people have a mindset that is very close to that. 
To illustrate the difference, consider how Jehovah and Jesus deal with humans. When Jehovah directed Adam to name the animals, he gave him the authority to name them and Adam used his personal discretion as to what to call them. Of course, there would be limits or boundaries to the authority granted Adam (for instance he wouldn't be allowed to call every animal "Jehovah" - right?) But Jehovah didn't control his freedom of choice - even when Adam decided to be disobedient. Or to illustrate further: CONTROL: mom tells Junior to buy everything on a predetermined shopping list. One pound of this, 5 ounces of that...only get the potatoes on sale, bring back a receipt and the change, be back in an hour. AUTONOMOUS AUTHORITY: mom tells junior to buy what he would like for supper and she will make it. (Boundary): Just make it healthy and include the main food groups. 
So Jesus and Jehovah give us laws, principles and boundaries. But they don't remote control our/elders' decisions by means of holy spirit. And as stated earlier, holy spirit can at times be hard to quantify. It played a strong influence in the anointing process, but there were still things early Christians - even miraculously inspired Christians - didn't understand, disagreed with each other about and got wrong. Nothing has changed that way. Not everything Bible writers wrote was included in the Bible canon either. In fact, one of the "gifts" described at 1 Corinthians 1:10, is the ability to miraculously "discern inspired expressions." As the Study Bible comments: "Christians also needed guidance to discern which letters and writings should be circulated among the congregations and to discern which would become part of the Bible canon."
As for your statement: "If Jesus doesn't want to control human behaviour and decisions...why do you think elders have that right?" Answer: They don't have that right. Elders don't have the right to make people's decisions for them. Their role is to encourage people to make decisions that are in harmony with what is directed in God's Word. And to keep the congregation without spot and blemish - even if that means disfellowshipping unrepentant individuals. If Jehovah and Jesus never took away freedom of choice from even Satan and Adam, what makes you think he would direct elders to do that?  Jehovah wants people to serve him willingly out of love. Not because they are remote-controlled robots. However, his servants were always warned that with freedom of choice, comes responsibility and accountability. The "blessing or the malediction."

???
No. But that has already been dealt with. No point in rehashing old ground with people who don't want to listen.
We don't have any clear examples of how you shouldn't drive a car recklessly over the speed limit either, do we? But we do, as has already been stated, have laws, principles... But you already know that, right?
Let's turn that around for a change and give you a chance to explain which flock and congregation YOU think Jesus is head over and how he directs said individuals. It's not enough to snipe from the sidelines. If you've got something better to direct people to, let's have at it. And if the best you can come up with is an anarchy of individual perceptions, let me know so I can start laughing now. 

Pretty good answer yourself.
When the new & reformed & true anointed manifests itself in just ten years, as you have said will happen, will it also state that Armageddon is close? Or will it say not to worry about it—it is far off?
Will it also say that one must be in association with it? Or will it say that any ol person believing any ol thing can be saved so long as he/she is sincere?
Follow your ex around so as to warn others to stay away? In the actual world, this is called stalking and it can land you in jail. Police will question your motives and sanity before they question hers.

The problem with suggesting that the "elders are under Jesus' full control, power and direction," is that people can get a skewed idea. Imperfect, uninspired men can become "masters of our faith" rather than "good-for-nothing slaves that are doing what they should." Of course, we respect the "arrangement" God has in place for pure worship and give "double honour" to those taking the lead. But that is a far cry from handing all of our personal thinking, choices and decisions over to imperfect men, thinking they are "fully controlled" by Jesus and anything but is being disobedient to him. Jesus and Jehovah have provided direction in his Word as guidelines for how the congregation should be run. But sometimes men in authority go "beyond what is written" and we should use our "clear thinking faculties" to be able to discern the difference. The fact is, that if one is too lazy to study and read God's Word or are gullible, you can start acting like you are in a cult - even when you are not. Child molesters (yes some have been "elders") get away with their actions for decades - not because Jesus is controlling them to do that, but because children are confused or awed by the authority they have. Even otherwise, at times, men in authority in the organization have assumed too much authority and used that authority in a way they are not authorized scripturally to do. People need to know the difference. "Whole-souled devotion" to Jehovah does not mean whole-souled devotion to imperfect men - even when we respect what authority they have as part of Jehovah's arrangement and offer scriptural obedience. Why? One reason is that some of these men are not who they appear to be (whether they be "wolves in sheep's clothing," "wicked men and imposters," "rocks hidden below the surface..." There is no level of authority within the organization where such men have not been found.) Should we be obedient to them? We need to know the difference when such men (i.e.. apostates or immoral men) direct things not in harmony with Jesus' direction as recorded in the Bible. Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before. No, the reality is that we still have to use our brains. 

Pretty good answer

The word "control" comes up because of what was stated in the workbook for the week of November 18-24: "In Jesus' right hand: The stars are under Jesus' full control, power and direction. If someone on a body of elders needs correction, Jesus will see to it that this is done in his own time and way." One of the WT references for Rev. 1:20 in the Study Bible adds: "the 'stars' are in Jesus' right hand - within his power, control, favour, and protection. Therefore they are "accountable" to him. By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations."
So, if Jesus controls all the elders like some sort of spiritual remote control by means of holy spirit, (as some may think), then everything that takes place within the organization should be perfect, because Jesus is perfect and would use holy spirit in a perfect way. Why is that of interest? Because too many things happen within the organization (even the early Christian congregation), that are clearly not "controlled" by Jesus - unless he is deliberately controlling them to do bad things. I won't get into detail, but things happen that shouldn't happen and even very unscriptural things happen. My description of the factors that come into play regarding that interplay, attempted to explain the discrepancies that clearly exist if you are not living in a "snow globe." I had mentioned 1 Tim. 5:24 because it plays an important role in helping to understand why bad things can go on within the congregation for decades. All one has to do is look at the way that scripture is true historically to get a better understanding of how it applies today. The fact that elders have a measure of autonomy is hinted at by the phrase: "By heeding his words to each of the seven congregations, present-day elders see how they can handle similar situations." So elders make their decision based on "heeding his words" which are contained where? In the Bible - and so are accountable to Jesus as to how they use the authority he gives them. They aren't mindless robots on remote control that can never make mistakes (I know that is an extreme description, but the fact is, that some - too many - people have a mindset that is very close to that. 
To illustrate the difference, consider how Jehovah and Jesus deal with humans. When Jehovah directed Adam to name the animals, he gave him the authority to name them and Adam used his personal discretion as to what to call them. Of course, there would be limits or boundaries to the authority granted Adam (for instance he wouldn't be allowed to call every animal "Jehovah" - right?) But Jehovah didn't control his freedom of choice - even when Adam decided to be disobedient. Or to illustrate further: CONTROL: mom tells Junior to buy everything on a predetermined shopping list. One pound of this, 5 ounces of that...only get the potatoes on sale, bring back a receipt and the change, be back in an hour. AUTONOMOUS AUTHORITY: mom tells junior to buy what he would like for supper and she will make it. (Boundary): Just make it healthy and include the main food groups. 
So Jesus and Jehovah give us laws, principles and boundaries. But they don't remote control our/elders' decisions by means of holy spirit. And as stated earlier, holy spirit can at times be hard to quantify. It played a strong influence in the anointing process, but there were still things early Christians - even miraculously inspired Christians - didn't understand, disagreed with each other about and got wrong. Nothing has changed that way. Not everything Bible writers wrote was included in the Bible canon either. In fact, one of the "gifts" described at 1 Corinthians 1:10, is the ability to miraculously "discern inspired expressions." As the Study Bible comments: "Christians also needed guidance to discern which letters and writings should be circulated among the congregations and to discern which would become part of the Bible canon."
As for your statement: "If Jesus doesn't want to control human behaviour and decisions...why do you think elders have that right?" Answer: They don't have that right. Elders don't have the right to make people's decisions for them. Their role is to encourage people to make decisions that are in harmony with what is directed in God's Word. And to keep the congregation without spot and blemish - even if that means disfellowshipping unrepentant individuals. If Jehovah and Jesus never took away freedom of choice from even Satan and Adam, what makes you think he would direct elders to do that?  Jehovah wants people to serve him willingly out of love. Not because they are remote-controlled robots. However, his servants were always warned that with freedom of choice, comes responsibility and accountability. The "blessing or the malediction."

Of course. If Jesus “controlled” elders in the remote-control sense that these characters seem to think he should, then his message to the seven congregations of Revelation would consist of seven thumbs-up.

If you want to use that analogy, that you divorced them, then you must see it all the way through..
Either way you cut it, divorce is a traumatic experience. There is the person who realizes the importance of picking up the pieces and moving on.
There is also the psycho ex-mate who just cannot let go and who pours all his energy into destroying his former marriage mate. This is never thought healthy and sometimes restraining orders must be issued.
Which ex-mate do you resemble?
Beavers, too, are highly educated. They are graduates of Dam U.

You can answer your own question by reading the actual Bible passage you are referring to and ask: Was Jesus saying he "controlled" all behaviour and decisions in the congregation? Or was it that the elders were responsible to use the authority granted to them in harmony with his direction and God's Word? What was going on in the congregations even while he was speaking? (Answer: apostasy, immorality, lukewarm Christianity...) Did Jesus cause or control that? Or what happened soon after that? (Answer: A great apostasy that started from within the congregation). Can we rightly blame Jesus for that as well? How do other factors come into play, such as freedom of choice; imperfection; recognizing (or not) the leadings of God's spirit; scriptures like 1 Timothy 5:24... Added to this is the fact that even while men in authority use their authority to judge others, they themselves are judged and held accountable. 

You can answer your own question by reading the actual Bible passage you are referring to and ask: Was Jesus saying he "controlled" all behaviour and decisions in the congregation? Or was it that the elders were responsible to use the authority granted to them in harmony with his direction and God's Word? What was going on in the congregations even while he was speaking? (Answer: apostasy, immorality, lukewarm Christianity...) Did Jesus cause or control that? Or what happened soon after that? (Answer: A great apostasy that started from within the congregation). Can we rightly blame Jesus for that as well? How do other factors come into play, such as freedom of choice; imperfection; recognizing (or not) the leadings of God's spirit; scriptures like 1 Timothy 5:24... Added to this is the fact that even while men in authority use their authority to judge others, they themselves are judged and held accountable. 

An oldie but goodie. Especially when it's appropriate. Its not about "strength of faith or hiding." It's about not stupidly wasting time on nonsense. 
2 Tim. 2:23 "Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing they produce fights. 24 For the slave of the Lord does not need to fight...showing restraint when wronged, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will." 
1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and dates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth..."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
That is a cop-out explanation/repsonse. For a better one read the Insight book under Apostasy to show you what a scriptural view of apostasy is - including within the Christian congregation. And how it is proper and scriptural to avoid such individuals. Both Jesus and Russell were considered apostates by apostate religion - which in effect is a compliment. It's like the world telling us we aren't doing the right thing in behaving like them and yet we are doing the right thing in not behaving like them. It's a matter of perspective. The scriptural perspective fortunately, doesn't rest on your personal opinions. 

That's a new one. Funny though.

Thank-you for being honest enough to acknowledge that. Some posters here only see from dark glasses and do not appear to be honest even with themselves. So on your point above, we are in agreement.
To be fair, "shunning," "excommunication," "disfellowshipping" isn't just a part of JW's beliefs. In fact, other religions feel they have a scriptural basis for doing just that. How much they implement it is up to them. But there is a practical aspect to this as well. It is one thing to have "doubts" and not be fully convinced about certain things - even disagree, but another try to "draw disciples away after themselves" - or basically start your own religion based on your own personal thoughts. Right now, we enjoy world-wide unity in thought, belief and action. (even though there may be variances as to who believes how much and what - as evidenced on sites such as this). If someone is so disillusioned with our beliefs that they want to leave, that is a choice they can make. Some quietly leave with no fuss and just leave off. But others are very vocal and opposed within the congregation and are more disposed to tearing down than building up - causing dissensions. (Some on this site I would consider such and some I consider outright apostates who never have anything good or constructive to say.) To them I would say: "Stop wasting my time and yours and get a life. If you don't like it go." It's that simple. But others, based on the many changes that have been made, (changes that are often in line with their thinking all along) are willing to take a wait and see attitude, with the faith that if it's that important, Jesus can ensure changes are made at a rate we can handle or understand. (And NO, I don't believe that "Jesus controls everything that goes on in the congregation." I believe the other explanation given, that he grants authority and we are accountable as to how we use that authority based on God's Word. 
What an absurd conclusion to draw. But that is not surprising since I now believe you are an apostate and I shouldn't be wasting my time responding. My point btw, was that we shouldn't base our dedication to God on a date - whatever date that may be. Of course, it may not stop some from doing just that. But don't be surprised if I rarely if ever respond to your apostate views again. 

An oldie but goodie. Especially when it's appropriate. Its not about "strength of faith or hiding." It's about not stupidly wasting time on nonsense. 
2 Tim. 2:23 "Further, reject foolish and ignorant debates, knowing they produce fights. 24 For the slave of the Lord does not need to fight...showing restraint when wronged, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed. Perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him to do his will." 
1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and dates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth..."
I couldn't have said it better myself.
That is a cop-out explanation/repsonse. For a better one read the Insight book under Apostasy to show you what a scriptural view of apostasy is - including within the Christian congregation. And how it is proper and scriptural to avoid such individuals. Both Jesus and Russell were considered apostates by apostate religion - which in effect is a compliment. It's like the world telling us we aren't doing the right thing in behaving like them and yet we are doing the right thing in not behaving like them. It's a matter of perspective. The scriptural perspective fortunately, doesn't rest on your personal opinions. 

@b4ucuhear  It was sarcasm. But i see it stung. The truth as they say, hurts sometimes, and you are hurt by truth. I'm not going into the list of dates from the late 1800's through to 1975 and probably more afterwards too. You will know of such things, or you will have built yourself a wall to hide from them. 
But i see you are a typical JW, no real strength of faith, so you have to hide behind that old old word 'apostate'. 

Thank-you for being honest enough to acknowledge that. Some posters here only see from dark glasses and do not appear to be honest even with themselves. So on your point above, we are in agreement.
To be fair, "shunning," "excommunication," "disfellowshipping" isn't just a part of JW's beliefs. In fact, other religions feel they have a scriptural basis for doing just that. How much they implement it is up to them. But there is a practical aspect to this as well. It is one thing to have "doubts" and not be fully convinced about certain things - even disagree, but another try to "draw disciples away after themselves" - or basically start your own religion based on your own personal thoughts. Right now, we enjoy world-wide unity in thought, belief and action. (even though there may be variances as to who believes how much and what - as evidenced on sites such as this). If someone is so disillusioned with our beliefs that they want to leave, that is a choice they can make. Some quietly leave with no fuss and just leave off. But others are very vocal and opposed within the congregation and are more disposed to tearing down than building up - causing dissensions. (Some on this site I would consider such and some I consider outright apostates who never have anything good or constructive to say.) To them I would say: "Stop wasting my time and yours and get a life. If you don't like it go." It's that simple. But others, based on the many changes that have been made, (changes that are often in line with their thinking all along) are willing to take a wait and see attitude, with the faith that if it's that important, Jesus can ensure changes are made at a rate we can handle or understand. (And NO, I don't believe that "Jesus controls everything that goes on in the congregation." I believe the other explanation given, that he grants authority and we are accountable as to how we use that authority based on God's Word. 
What an absurd conclusion to draw. But that is not surprising since I now believe you are an apostate and I shouldn't be wasting my time responding. My point btw, was that we shouldn't base our dedication to God on a date - whatever date that may be. Of course, it may not stop some from doing just that. But don't be surprised if I rarely if ever respond to your apostate views again.