JW Insider

Does she have to wear that A around her neck for the rest of her life? (Not sure if that's a reference to Samuel Taylor Coleridge or Nathaniel Hawthorne. I guess it all depends on what the meaning of "A" is.)

BillyTheKid46 would never say anything like that; he'd say: JWTheologian would say it more like: Oh, look, the forum still has a few quotes from the original AllenSmith, which is completely different. It was pretty obvious immediately who @Hankulan Tunani was, even a few months ago, well before this persona was just brought back again with a hyphen: @Hankulan-Tunani to continue the same quest. I'm just letting you know in case you actually believed that all these (and many other) personas are fooling a lot of people. This way you might not feel the need to waste so much of your time trying to differentiate so many different personas. I still vote that we bring back the original Allen Smith with all his past "upvotes," too.

Corruption is at least as rampant among leaders of South American countries as it is in the United States. We can see this from recent examples in Colombia, Brazil, etc., too. But I just thought I should point out that he was not a communist. There is a communist party in Peru that hasn't gotten very far recently. But Alan Garcia was not a communist. In fact, he was a neo-liberal who ran well to the right of the Socialists. His party is considered center-left or moderate. Not that he wasn't corrupt. Parties in many countries run with promises that appeal to the socialist ideology just to get votes, but then they get in office and make deals to benefit themselves and rich cronies. Not much of a comparison, but it reminds me of how Hitler ran a "revolutionary" campaign against imperialism, and outside interference, even labeling his party a socialist party to trick people into voting for him. But he quickly ran to the very conservative right, and began his imperialist warmongering. In Garcia's case, it was probably more similar to a Hillary Clinton (cf. Garcia) running against a Bernie Sanders (cj. Barrantes Lingan, for example). When Garcia's first presidency ended in 1990 he was defeated by Alberto Fujimori, who ran strongly against all Socialists and Marxists and farther to the right than "centrist" Garcia. Fujimori was considered a social conservative and neo-liberal at the same time. He privatized public companies and signed contracts that allowed foreign countries (US allies, etc.) to take advantage. Fujimori was convicted, during his presidency, for things like murder, kidnapping, embezzling millions, stealing $15,000,000 from the Treasury to give to his head of security. He rewrote the constitution to help his children, and his daughter (Keiko) ran for president in 2011. In 2018, Fujimoro's attempt at getting pardoned was overturned, and his daughter "was detained by police as part of an investigation surrounding the Odebrecht scandal and money laundering allegations that involved her 2011 presidential campaign." (wikipedia). Note that this is the same Odebrecht scandal that has brought down Garcia. A pattern to watch out for, which we Westerners fall into all the time, is to hear about a third world scandal and immediately think of communism and socialism. Although extreme financial scandals, and hyperinflation have been just as common in right-wing governments, the West tends to play down right-wing scandals and blow up left-wing scandals. This is the way our corporate backed news is filtered through Western sources and the sources of Western allies. (Look at LIMA, for example - the alliance, not the Peruvian capital.) Countries get a lot more Western support and become Western allies when they show they are willing to shift resources to a few people at the top. Keeping a large populace in a country poor is a proven military strategy. Controlling wealth through a few people at the top who are in bed with Western corporations is a win-win for the West. The World Bank and the IMF [International Monetary Fund] are notorious for dangling money to these types of elite and elite-supporting leaders in an effort to gain leverage over their financial system and resources, which allows for many years of financial control through debt, debt relief, and a continual encroachment of Western corporations into a country's resources and future financial infrastructure. (Guiado in Venezuela, for example, began talks with the IMF and promised more US control of oil exports.) And it's not just them. Look how Germany can loot the retirement funds of a country like Greece and then put them on "austerity" (sanctions) to keep them that way -- and control the narrative about how Greek people are just lazy and lying around in the sun. (This was a propaganda push heard for a couple of years in the USA.)

True. And such lists were plentiful . . .

Well, I still have about a dozen more such letters, 2 compete sets of Gilead class notes, talk assignments, photos, some research write-ups, some original Watchtower and Awake! artwork in various stages of completion, and a variety of notices from the Bethel Home office. It's true don't believe that anything that went on behind the scenes at Bethel needs to remain hidden, but neither does it all need to be publicized. Revealing certain things could be unloving as it might hurt or embarrass specific living persons. But, even more it is not necessarily beneficial or loving to share all good things either. For example, I will not share entire sets of Gilead notes, even though I believe that everything taught to Gilead Students should also be available to every other Witness. But I know of Gilead Students who might feel that their privilege is somehow devalued if those who were not invited were allowed to get all the same information. Personally, I think this is an unchristian and unscriptural attitude. But, then again, most of what was taught in these particular Gilead notes is considered no longer valid doctrine anymore (a lot of Elijah class, Elisha class, Prodigal Son class, Samaritan class, Jezebel class, Ahab class, etc.). So it's really only useful for historical purposes. For now, I'll just share a few of the more innocuous items. The next item posted will show some of the names of non-Gilead personnel involved in addressing Gilead classes. A lot of persons might have been surprised listening to a Gilead Graduation by Brother Fred Franz, and hearing him say that the graduation event was the first time he had ever met with them or addressed them. See next post:

When I heard that the motorcycle was "sick" I remembered that I had an uncle who drove a Puch (pronounced "PUKE"). Puch 250 SGS

Circuit Overseer told a joke about how Eve would count Adam's ribs while he was sleeping to see if he had another woman.

Why get a dog or a cat? Well, big snakes gotta eat too, right?

@BillyTheKid46, You seem to spend an inordinate amount of energy trying to provoke persons into fighting with you. It is as though you have a NEED to fight. I have seen this from you (and yours) for quite a while now. In a recent thread about Brother Morris visiting a liquor store, I agreed with you completely that the post was irrelevant and irreverent and it tried to make something scandalous out of a potentially innocent activity without 100 percent proof. (And I thought your pun was good, too. See page 4 of that topic.) You and Melinda Mills spoke about the Venezuelan economic issues under Maduro. You helped to clarify the picture that Melinda posted, the one with worthless money in the gutter, when you provided a link to the explanatory SNOPES article. I mentioned that I appreciated that same SNOPES link you provided because it gave details about how and when those pictures came about, and I quoted verbatim from your link. Then you inexplicably decided to reject the explanation from your own link, and claim that I was somehow attacking the vision that your mother had told you about in the 1960's. What made this so odd was that I had already agreed that the picture was related to that same expectation. My own mother referenced that point from Ezekiel 7:19, as did Melinda's. You said: BTK: "What was fasinating to me, My mother pointed it out to me in the '60s as a devout JW that would happen, and it sure the hell did. There is no photoshop on that. It's not a tale." To which I responded, that in spite of the propaganda use that was presented in SNOPES that, Yes. . . : JWI: "It was still related to Maduro, and is still related to money becoming worthless. It is still supportive of the idea that people will be throwing their money (even their gold) in the streets, because money is of no value as a savior in the day of Jehovah's fury. It shows how bad things can get." To which you responded: BTK: "I understand you are trying desperately to delegitimize my mother’s vision. Do that with your own mother, lay off mine." I didn't bother to respond, after which you added: BTK: "Its unfortunate someone like JWinsider decided to insult and denigrate a relative, and James thinking it’s funny to do just that, makes them the biggest AH’s in this forum." I'm sure that a few people didn't realize that you had made up the whole thing about someone "denigrating a relative" just to provoke a fight in the same way worldly people do when they hurl insults about each other's mother, and call each other "AH," which has been used as an abbreviation for a**hole. When you provoke and the other party doesn't respond in kind, I'm sure it can be frustrating. But please don't bring these same worldly attitudes and posturings into every topic. You end up discrediting yourself instead of your target. "A slave of the Lord does not need to fight." (2 Tim 2:24)

A good reminder, especially in view of the assembly theme.

Afraid it gives the idea that it would have been OK to just let go even if we felt we could not hang on another minute, because we would have survived the fall anyway. After all we were never more than two feet off the ground. The better idea is there, too, of course: that if we hang on to some anchor for our faith, in spite of the dark, raging storm of this world, that there will come a time when we see how easily and gently it will all works out, as if we were never in danger. All in all, however, it would be good to balance this tense and confusing illustration with one that is a little more in line with Jesus' words of comfort: (Revelation 2:2, 3) . . .. 3 You are also showing endurance, and you have persevered for the sake of my name and have not grown weary. (Galatians 6:9, 10) 9 So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due time we will reap if we do not tire out. 10 So, then, as long as we have the opportunity, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith. (Matthew 11:28-30) 28 Come to me, all you who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh you. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and you will find refreshment for yourselves. 30 For my yoke is kindly, and my load is light.” Yes, we fight a fine fight of the faith against the dark forces of this system, but we have been given all the tools necessary to find joy in our daily victories. We are NOT trying to hang in there until Armageddon proves so close that it becomes the solution to our problems. That's the same as living with a date or time period in mind. Instead, we are trying to live a Christian life of joy, finding happiness in successfully conquering the weaknesses and sins of the flesh with the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, etc. It's about being the person we ought to be -- not surviving to the advent of Armageddon.

LOL. I'm always happy to address a challenge. In this case you have claimed that I stole unauthorized material, perhaps hoping to use it against the Watchtower, somehow. I did not steal anything. And I'm not sure what would make certain material "unauthorized." I suppose you could argue that only material that was published in our publications was authorized. But does that mean that everything else that any Bethelite saved or collected must be destroyed? Really? Also, this first letter I shared actually went out to a sister and was therefore "published" (with only minor alterations) and the material was reused for future letters on the topic. I have three letters from Governing Body members that were written to me personally. Should I destroy them? One was a letter of recommendation to help me get a secular job after I left Bethel. Do you really think we should be ashamed of or hide anything that goes on behind the scenes at Bethel? You think that we shouldn't talk about any of these things, or that we shouldn't share anything that was written? You appear to be afraid that this material I saved could be used against the Watchtower, somehow. Anything that I kept, I saved out of a spirit of appreciation for the experience I had at Bethel, which was a wonderful experience. I wanted to remember it and I kept things that would help me remember it. If I had wanted to find a way to use them against the Watchtower, I don't think I would have waited about 40 years to share them. I admit that I have also shared experiences from Bethel that we could (and should) learn from. Even a negative experience could be profitable to others. I find that most people hold back on this count because they think that certain types of negative experiences cannot be profitable to anyone. This flies in face of scripture. Did Paul hold back from telling the Galatians and Corinthians about negative experiences? Did Jesus hold back? Did not Paul say we should be imitators of Paul himself? (Acts 20:20) while I did not hold back from telling you any of the things that were profitable . . . (1 Corinthians 10:6-12) . . .Now these things became examples for us, in order for us not to desire injurious things, as they desired them. 7 Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.” 8 Neither let us practice sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, . . . 11 Now these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have come. 12 So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall. (1 Corinthians 4:14-5:6) 14 I am writing these things, not to put you to shame, but to admonish you as my beloved children. . . . 16 I urge you, therefore, become imitators of me. . . . 18 Some are puffed up with pride,. . . 5 Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations. . . 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough? Neither Jesus nor Paul held back from sharing things that were profitable, both old and new. (Matthew 13:51, 52) . . .” 52 Then he said to them: “That being the case, every public instructor who is taught about the Kingdom of the heavens is like a man, the master of the house, who brings out of his treasure store things both new and old.” (Mark 4:22) . . .For there is nothing hidden that will not be exposed; nothing is carefully concealed that will not come out in the open.

The experience file he mentioned contained approximately the following headings at the time:

Here's one that Brother Swingle wrote to the whole department:

I was looking for some tax papers today, and found a stack of about 500 pages in my own filing cabinets. These were items from Brooklyn Bethel that I hadn't looked at in nearly 40 years. Thought someone else might get a kick out of them before I toss most of them out. One includes a first draft example of an actual assignment given to someone who worked alongside the Writing Department but who was not actually in that Department. I thought it might give some insight to the types of assignments that a "junior researcher" might get back in those days. It's also seems so odd now that we had filing cabinets filled with clippings, photos, and unused articles and experiences back before the days of scanners and pdfs. One two-page bit of correspondence was for someone asking about alternative medicines, quartz, Native American herbs, etc. I'll include that one first. I'd say more, but I just heard that Notre Dame in Paris is burning, and must get back to my taxes.

Uhmmm. Guilty as charged!

I didn't listen to Lloyd Evans / Cedars yet to see what the evidence is for Sunday, but I attended the Warwick KH on a Sunday morning (they only have one meeting there on Sunday) and Brother Morris attended the Sunday meeting there, too. He was there from the beginning to the end and was even there a bit early and stayed a bit later to talk to some of the other publishers at the meeting. As far as I could tell, it seemed this was his assigned congregation. But I wouldn't know for sure. Several of the Bethelites in Warwick travel as much as 50 miles for their Kingdom Halls. But there was another GB member, and several GB Helpers at the local KH/congregation meeting in the Warwick auditorium, and they were clearly a regular part of the congregation there. When I was at Bethel in Brooklyn I attended the local Brooklyn Heights congregation that also met on the Bethel premises. About half the GB members attended there at one point, although Sunday attendance by them was sparse due to speaking assignments, either elsewhere around NYC congregations, or even other parts of the world. Brother Morris could easily have had a speaking assignment that day in a congregation in the town where he bought the liquor. It seems that some are trying to make this out to be a problem that he didn't buy liquor closer to Warwick. I never saw hardly any stores of any kind near Warwick as it was mostly rural. Most Witnesses who come to visit Bethel actually stay at hotels in Mahwah, NJ and other local townships, so I don't think that it is reasonable to conclude that he was going out of his way just to hide his purchases. Witnesses in these other locales have meeting times all throughout the day. He was obviously not trying to disguise himself.

Thanks for the catch. The date would not format with the rest of the Twitter pictures and text so I retyped it myself with the now-obvious typo. It should have been Mar 12, 2019.

That was my point, too. Further information from the Snopes article explains it this way: One popular posting on Facebook was captioned, “This is a street in Venezuela. That’s money in the gutter. It’s worthless. Welcome to socialism.”: . . . Although hyperinflation has indeed caused the bolivar to become all but worthless, the caption on this viral photograph is a bit misleading. The money shown lying in the gutter in this picture is Venezuela’s old currency, the Bolívar Fuerte, which was replaced by a new form of currency, the Bolivar Soberano, in August 2018. When the Bolivar Soberano was introduced, Bolívar Fuerte currency in amounts less than 1,000 ceased to be legal tender, and Bolivar Fuerte currency in all amounts was completely withdrawn on 5 December 2018. . . . The viral photograph was likely taken on 11 March 2019 and showed the aftermath of looting at a bank in the town of Merida. Local news outlet Maduradas.com compiled several other photographs of the incident and reported that the perpetrators had discarded the old money on the streets and even lit some of it on fire (translated via Google): TERRIBLE! Hooded (vandals) sacked the bank Bicentenario in Merida and scattered bolivars of the old currency through the streets (+ Photos) On Monday, March 11, hooded (vandals) sacked the Bicentenario bank agency on Avenue 3, Glorias Patrias, in the state of Merida. The fact was confirmed by the deputy of the National Assembly Williams Dávila, as well as by the correspondent of El Nacional in the state of Mérida, Leonardo León. Through the social network Twitter, they reported that citizens scattered piles of old money bills in the streets, which were then set on fire. TWITTER: Descifrando la Guerra @descifraguerra Replying to @descifraguerra Ayer se produjo el saqueo de un banco bicentenario en la ciudad de Mérida, en las cercanías de la plaza Glorias Patrias. Los saqueadores incendiaron una pila de bolívares además de dejar muchos billetes por el suelo. Mayr 12, 2019. [Mar not May, thanks Melinda Mills] -------------- end of Twitter quote as seen as Snopes ------------ In short, the “money in gutters” image shown above captured an older and now invalid form of currency that was tossed aside after the looting of a bank, and not usable currency discarded by citizens because it had been made next to worthless due to “socialism.” ------------------end of Snopes.com quote------------------ Snopes is often wrong. But these pictures were already well known and understood in their original context on Twitter, and from various journalists on all sides of the Venezuela situation before Snopes picked up on it. It was still related to Maduro, and is still related to money becoming worthless. It is still supportive of the idea that people will be throwing their money (even their gold) in the streets, because money is of no value as a savior in the day of Jehovah's fury. It shows how bad things can get. A major use of these pictures, however, was to create a lie that it was all based on Maduro's mismanagement and therefore could be blamed on socialism. The masked persons who came into the bank may very well have planned the propaganda photo-op for purposes of drumming up support from outside Venezuela for the opposition parties. It reminds me of Russian authorities planting literature in JW KH's as a set-up to frame trouble. The opposition parties in Venezuela have been getting away with violence, riots, sabotage, even terrorism, hoping to create a big enough backlash from the government that will give the excuse for a "regime" change. It also reminds me of how someone can take pictures of Bro. Morris in a liquor store to try to give the impression that all this must be for him and him alone, or that it must be for the purpose of allowing him to abuse alcohol over some period of time.

The Snopes article got a little closer to the truth. It is worded in an unclear way, but I don't think it was being dishonest when it stipulated the following: "Hence the discarded money seen here was literally worthless not because it had no value, because it had been completely replaced by a newer currency and was no longer legal tender." The article did admit that there were many factors, including Maduro. Part of it was definitely the lower oil prices (which hurt Saudi Arabia, too) and Maduro's optimistic claims in spite of outside interference. But most of it was sanctions that cut off Venezuela's ability to efficiently sell their oil. Unfortunately, Snopes left off some of the most important factors that became more obvious from undercover work, undercover videos, and recorded, published interviews with officials who have understood the factors that proved that much of the problem was intentionally aggravated by outside economic sabotage against Chavez and Maduro. The recent test of loyalties in Venezuela by the United States showed that a majority (even if a small majority) of people in Venezuela still preferred Maduro over Guaido. Otherwise the US would have been happy to send "5,000 troops to the Colombian border," and have Brazil readied to support a possible invasion from that border. The US often uses "humanitarian aid" as a ruse to provide weapons to an opposition party, while bragging about how the sanctions will produce a humanitarian crisis of hunger, sabotage of infrastructure etc. U.S.Aid and other "white hat" programs have been caught red-handed in such regime change attempts in many other places. Trump admitted in a couple tweets and a speech in Miami that he wanted their oil. https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/01/29/how-trumps-venezuela-sanctions-could-undercut-his-iran-policy-pdvsa-maduro-guaido-oil/ The oil sanctions that U.S. President Donald Trump levied on Venezuela Monday represent Washington’s strongest effort yet to oust embattled leader Nicolás Maduro by starving his regime of funds. . . . The oil sanctions that U.S. President Donald Trump levied on Venezuela Monday represent Washington’s strongest effort yet to oust embattled leader Nicolás Maduro by starving his regime of funds. . . . Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said in a statement. He said oil sanctions would be lifted if PDVSA, the state-owned oil company, were to pass control to Guaidó . . . . The U.S. measures, while stopping short of a full embargo on Venezuelan exports, are still a potentially devastating double whammy. They prohibit refiners in the United States, which imported about 580,000 barrels a day of Venezuelan oil over the last year, from buying any more crude from PDVSA. . . . The U.S. measures, which cap a steady, yearslong escalation of financial pressure on Maduro and his inner circle, sparked an angry response in Caracas. . . .[others] warned that Washington would have to be held responsible for inflicting more economic pain on a country already suffering food shortages, mass migration, and disease outbreaks. This post will be moved to a more appropriate topic, but I thought it was interesting enough to post here for a bit.

Perhaps you can't zoom in, but I still can. Let me know if you want the rest. I can send it to you and you can perform forensics to your heart's content. Sorry to disappoint you again Allen. On the original picture, you can still zoom in and see a couple grains of rice. Of course, past experience tells me that even this evidence might still not be enough for you. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

Hmmm. That might explain why that Chipotle burrito inside the foil was making me feel funny. 🤢

While naming this thread, I had left out another world "hotspot" that reveals a lot about how we in the so-called "West" will hear about "news" compared to other nations not allied with the "West." Note that I wanted to provide some examples, not to take sides, but to point out some of the areas where hypocrisy is commonplace. It also shows how easy it is for people to begin to take sides without realizing they are being manipulated by propaganda. Unfortunately, it can also point out that some of the news sources that Americans widely trust are often eager to join in the propaganda. A good example is the war against Yemen by Saudi Arabia. There is a clear video of a particular bombing in the last couple of days, next to a school with students watching from the schoolyard and the halls, balconies, and windows. (Anyone can find the video if they want.) And it is widely known and even admitted that the Saudis are leading this bombing with full support, aid, planes, refueling, bombs, logistics, and targets and even pilots in some cases being supplied by the United States. So how does the NYT report a bombing the US "provides" for the Saudis when it kills several school-girls and other children? It's called a "large explosion at a warehouse." But it's also informative to note how a "source" is used by calling it a state-run news agency aligned with the internationally recognized government. (See more comments on this below the image.) The "internationally recognized government" is actually a reference those who still support a president who illegally overstayed his term in office, fled to Saudi Arabia in 2015, and asked the Saudis to bomb his own people so as to delay any more numerous factions or parties from being able to take power. The Saudis were happy to bomb their old Shia enemies in Yemen. Yemen's people generally see this "recognized government" as a fake regime of an illegitimate president (Hadi) who has lived in Saudi Arabia for 4 years. Killing tens of thousands of civilians by bombings and killing millions through famine are the obvious primary targets of the US-UK-Saudi war against Yemen. The US and UK work with the Saudis because it helps them keep control and leverage over the flow of oil. The parallels with Venezuela, for example, should be obvious, where the "West" decided to recognize an illegitimate elitist president hoping that a civil war would put him in power, giving power to a person who had already expressed willingness to work with the West and the IMF on how oil would be controlled. The hypocritical talk about famine and shortages and corruption in Venezuela are obvious when one compares the US treatment of Venezuela with the treatment of Brazil and Columbia. In fact, in all the worry about how Venezuela was on the brink of famine, the US talked about how trade sanctions would teach them a lesson by creating real famine that might help produce a quicker "solution" to the regime change.

Thanks for including this link. No one should minimize the real problems in Venezuela, but many of the particular pictures are being distributed by persons who are trying to create a lie, and then hoping they will be further redistributed (as planned) by people who don't know it is based on a lie. Here's what your source (snopes) said: The money shown lying in the gutter in this picture is Venezuela’s old currency, the Bolívar Fuerte, which was replaced by a new form of currency, the Bolivar Soberano, in August 2018. When the Bolivar Soberano was introduced, Bolívar Fuerte currency in amounts less than 1,000 ceased to be legal tender, and Bolivar Fuerte currency in all amounts was completely withdrawn on 5 December 2018. Hence the discarded money seen here was literally worthless not because it had no value, because it had been completely replaced by a newer currency and was no longer legal tender. It reminds me of the plot of the comedy "Millions" (2004) when the Bank of England is about to move from the British Pound to the Euro and the bank is shipping the old money from banks for destruction and replacement. (Spoiler alert: If you haven't seen the move, and want to, the following hidden paragraph may spoil it for you.) This has actually happened to large amounts of currency in several countries, including the United States in the 1860s, the Deutschmark in Germany in the 1940's. On a similar note, thousands of dollars of older paper bills are destroyed by the Federal Reserve daily to keep newer currencies in circulation. Similar to Venezuela, Brazil ran through hyperinflation in recent decades (unrelated to socialism) and replaced many paper currencies one right after another: Hyperinflation in Brazil was a fourteen-year period of three-to-four-digit annual inflation rates from 1980 until 1994.[1] It coincided with the period of economic crisis and political turmoil triggered by the 1970s energy crisis during the Brazilian military dictatorship until the conclusion of the main processes of the democratic transition in the country in the late-1980s/early 1990s. The republic went through several short-lived currencies, including the cruzado, cruzado novo, cruzeiro, and cruzeiro real, before introducing the Brazilian real in 1994 which proved to be a stable currency.