Arauna

James: 1 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? The destruction of any human is only righteously due (from the viewpoint of Jehovah or his Son, who will judge the sheep and goats at time of the end). Jesus has been given the right to resurrect humans - so even if Satan or his associates have in some unrighteous way put someone to death (destroyed him so that his body decays, has a destructive process in the grave), it is not everlasting destruction or spiritual destruction, when the person is resurrected by Jesus. Many of those who were destroyed by Jehovah are not in Gehenna but in Sheol. Take as an example Dathan and Abiram. Moses wrote that the earth opened up and they went down "alive into sheol". Numbers 16:31 and 33. The Assyrians also went into sheol. Ezekiel 32: 21 an 22. So, not all destruction by God is necessarily eternal. On the other hand all deliberate blasphemers will go to Gehenna - everlasting destruction / oblivion. Everlasting destruction is righteous when Jesus leaves someone in death forever - Gehenna. The wicked angels and Judas have been judged to go into Gehenna. There is an unrighteous destruction and a righteously judged destruction. Adam went straight into the second death did he not? The Canaanites were so wicked that archeologists wonder why god did not destroy them sooner..... but Jehovah used another nation as his tool to destroy them. He also did this to Juda when their wickedness was so great - Babylon became the executioner. Jesus is the image of his father. While he is love (like his father) he is also destruction to those who disobey the father. Revelation 19: at war of Armageddon he will act as a destroyer of all those who have morally and physically ruined the earth and sided with the enemies of Jehovah. rev 19:19 + 20 "And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beasti and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur." Jehu was anointed and given command to destroy the house of Ahab, so he was not blood guilty for following the command of Jehovah. Jehovah has a purpose to destroy the entire world of wicked people at Armageddon and the executioner is Christ, riding on his white horse symbolizing righteous warfare. Just like in the flood, the earth will be cleansed. Unfortunately at this point in time people do not fear Jehovah as they should and go on eating and drinking and paying Him no attention. I think there is more than enough evidence that Jehovah can destroy and Jesus can destroy ..... but they do this when someone has been righteously judged. Not in all cases is It necessarily everlasting destruction, except at Armageddon.. Revelation 20: 1 - 3 clearly indicates that an angel of Jehovah has the key to the abyss.

I need to warn you that there are apostates on here - unfortunately. ....they twist things very much. I am glad to see that you stand up to them in such an admirable way and correct any deviant thoughts. Satan is a deceiver - so a thing may look right but on closer inspection it is leading the one without discernment astray. I nevertheless have used this forum to find subjects to think about - and often do.... It is interesting to see things from your perspective....

Summary of Nehemia Gordon (Scholar regarding the name Yehovah): I am often asked whether God’s name, Yehovah, is related to the Hebrew word for "disaster". The question starts off with the observation that the Hebrew word hovah means "disaster, calamity". This word “hovah” appears three times in the Tanach, once in Isaiah and twice in a single verse in Ezekiel: "Evil is coming upon you which you will not know how to charm away; disaster (hovah) is falling upon you which you will not be able to appease; coming upon you suddenly is ruin of which you know nothing." (Isaiah 47:11) "Calamity (hovah) shall follow calamity (hovah), and rumor follow rumor. Then they shall seek vision from the prophet in vain; instruction shall perish from the priest, and counsel from the elders." (Ezekiel 7:26) Since hovah means "disaster" or "calamity", I am often asked, doesn't this mean that Yehovah also means "disaster" or "calamity". I guess this makes sense to those innocent of basic Hebrew grammar, but in the Hebrew language this makes no sense. This would be like saying that the English word "assume" is derived from the word "ass" because when you ass-u-me you make an ass of you and me. Someone actually said this many years ago, and they were dead serious. Of course, an examination of any historical English dictionary will reveal that "assume" actually comes from the Latin verb "assume(re)" and not from the English word for a donkey. Let's look at some Hebrew basics before we get ourselves in trouble assuming. With a few exceptions, every word in the Hebrew language has a three-letter root, something proven in the 11th century by the Spanish rabbi, Yonah Ibn Janah. Modern linguistics have confirmed this, observing that the three-letter root is a basic characteristic of all Semitic languages. Whole Roots: Most Hebrew roots are "whole" roots meaning all three letters of the root are present regardless of how the root is used in different grammatical forms. For example, the Hebrew root SH.M.R. has the basic meaning "to guard". Hebrew can use this root in dozens of ways, each with a different shade of meaning, such as the verbs SHaMaRti "I guarded" and hiShaMeR "be careful" (be on guard), the noun miSHMeRet meaning "duty" (which a person has to be on guard to keep), and the names SheMeR and SHoMRon. As a "whole" root, the letters shin, mem, resh, are always present in words derived from this root. Hollow Roots: The opposite of a "whole" root, is a "hollow" root. In "hollow" roots, one or more of the three letters of the root can be absent in certain grammatical forms. For example, the root BNH "to build" loses the third letter of the root in the verb baniti (spelled BNYty) "I built". In this form of the verb, the H of BNH drops and is replaced by a Yod. If you didn't know about hollow verbs, and saw the word baniti, you might think the root was BNY, when in fact it is BNH. .............Yehovah is from a Hollow Root. The name Yehovah derives from the three-letter root HYH which means "to be". We know this from Ex 3:14 in which the Almighty explains his name as "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh". The word Ehyeh is an "imperfect" verb from the root HYH meaning "to be". In later Hebrew, the "imperfect" form took on the meaning of "future", but in Biblical Hebrew it primarily expresses a repetitive action. In plain English, Ehyeh means "I am now and I will continue to be in the future". This is why Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh can be translated as "I am that which I am", but also as "I will be that which I will be". Both of these translations are correct, even if they are a bit inaccurate. An accurate translation would be: "I am now, and will continue to be in the future, that which I am now, and will be continue to be in the future". That's quite a mouthful, and you can see why most translations prefer to dumb it down. I just remembered - One of the first things I realized when I studied Arabic (also a Semitic language with 3 root consonants in most words) ...is that most verbs already assume that an existing person is carrying out the verb. So one does not say : I am playing this or that. Most sentences are: I play..... the AM is not in the sentence. This is why a rare form of hollow root is used to express the I AM when speaking of Jehovah.

So you are saying that a person that goes to investigate the original manuscripts, this person has to be anointed to be able to distinguish the spelling of the Name of god? Only the true anointed can understand this? I will not ask any further questions because then I will just expose you. I think you have humiliated yourself enough!

Thank you! That is nice! My brother sent me a summary of Nehemia Gordon's book two years ago. In it Nehemia explains that the name comes from hollow root - which is a very rare form. And if I remember correctly it means : he is, he was and will be. The word eHYeH has all three letters of the root HYH, which may lead you to conclude that HYH is a "whole" root. However, in other forms of the verb, the second and third letter drop, which means it is a "hollow" root. For example, HaYiti (spelled HYYty) "I was", is missing the third letter of the root H, and in its place, has a Yod. On the other hand, the masculine singular imperative Heveh (pronounced Heh Vay) "be!", is missing the second letter of the root, and in its place, has a Vav. This last piece of information is crucial, because it means in certain forms, the root looks like HVH, even though in fact it is HYH. This can be confusing because there is an unrelated root which really is HVH, which has an entirely different meaning from HYH. Yehovah comes from the same root as Ehyeh: the hollow root HYH. Yehovah is actually a combination of three verb-forms: Hayah "he was", Hoveh "he is", and Yih'yeh "he is now and will continue to be in the future". Together Hayah, Hoveh, and Yih'yeh combine into the name Yehovah.

Jesus read from the Hebrew scriptures and taught Jehovah's name (we all know the last prayer he said before being taken into custody - wherein he mentions several times that he taught people his father's name), due to the tradition that started before his time to eliminate the enunciation of the Name, Jehovah. To deny this fact is deliberate obtuseness.

Thank you for the extra information.

Not true. More than enough evidence has been provided by Nehemia Gordon. He personally went and investigated each occurrence of the name in the extant, manuscripts in the Hebrew language.

Loved this - where did you get the info?

What is mean by that is that most nations pronounce the Y as a Ye or Ya.......and they uasually write it as a "J". It is not the phonetical sound that you find in English such as body, buddy, folly etc...... which comes out as an "ee" sound.

I talk about morality..... which also has bible support. You see there are many ways to get to the same point. You may use your reasoning and I use mine. If there is no morality then people have no accountability and if there is no accountability then society does not function properly because each person does their own thing. Who decides what is right of wrong? and who enforces the right or wrong? Can humans decide right or wrong? True atheists do not have a compass for right or wrong, except where they have rubbed shoulders with some kind of religion because their morality usually reflect society norms. From this point.... I can show that jehovah is the only one who can decide morality for society and he has the right to bring an end to severe immorality when it threatens humankind extinction. We have now reached a point in history where governments can no longer be trusted. They oppress those who do not follow their brand of morality.....worship of only the state, LGBTQ, etc. The human race is threatened by modern science (too many to mention here.... but I can just mention one.... the threat of bio weapons.... ).

Jewish scholars have never searched for the pronunciation because Jews do not pronounce the name for very ungodly reasons. The first time in modern history a scholar went searching for the name was in the past few years. The last time I heard they more than 1000 places where the vowel Mark's were inserted VERIFIED by going to the library and inspecting it to see if the ink is authentic etc. Almost 2000 have been found.... Your word "proven" is the wrong word to use..... The true pronunciation is Yehovah..... unfortunately English does not have the Y sound.... the J-sound is closest

You do not call him Jesus but always you write Yeshua - which is a bit affectatious.... but we leave it at that. You also refuse to call the god of the bible, Jehovah.

Your words are strong. Small snakes are just a poisonous as an adult snake ...... but true.

Good point. I use logical reasoning for example, when I speak to atheists who believe in evolution.

This is why I usually avoid this person. Logic has evaporated....

I have never been uncomfortable in answering scathing remarks but it is a matter of showing wisdom in each situation. We follow Jesus' example do we not? Is Jesus' example not timeless? ... and wise? " ASV "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, as ye go forth out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet." We know that Jesus used this saying as well: If you say that someone is casting pearls before swine, you mean that they are wasting their time by offering something that is helpful or valuable to someone who does not appreciate or understand it.

I think I have been on this forum since 2016..... (I have not checked it). In that time I have come to know the remarks of of some of the extremely nasty apostates on here. I usually ignore them. It is rare that I answer them unless they get into their usual MO. I then point out to them that they are acting in character. I

Jesus - set the example for us to obtain the best results. I have read extensively throughout my life (next year I will be 50 years baptized) .... I learnt the truth while I was at university..... Many of us can challenge people we meet with worldly knowledge....... but this is not the way Jesus taught us to teach. Paul tells us we must not try to convince people with worldly knowledge but with the Truth and the Spirit of Jehovah. Of course there is a time for everything! So, at times use good logic and with a little help of our secular knowledge to convince people...... but the Sacred Secret is our most valuable possession to share.

revelation 20: " 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent,c who is the Devil and Satan,e and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while." 7 Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them." For incase you have never read this - the above comes from Revelation 20. Since it is clear that it is referring to the four corners of the earth! it seems you rather pretend to ignore this scripture! ..... and proceed to make up your own stuff!

Full blown hate=OCD again..... .... Same old same old rehash , rehash MO.

No, you are taking a little offense at an impersonal discussion. We do not know you personally....so we cannot damage you personally, we can only reply to what you say. So far it has been nice to talk to you in a very forthright way. If we all have to hide what we think then it stifles free talking and openness. Some cultures are more prone to save face and others are not. My culture is almost challenging...... lol. So please accept that our intent (well my own is) is only to up build my fellows here and open up that which needs more discussion from every side. . When I see a thought that is different to mine I will clarify what I think about it.... it is only by sharing honest thoughts that our thoughts are adjusted..... when we see new perspectives. We learn here all the time.

I have preached this many times when I have reached this teaching stage of discussion regarding Jehovahs purpose and justice.... because it shows the LOGIC of Jehovah (every aspect of his actions have been well planned. ........Having the foresight to plan to test all "perfect" humans like he did Adam. Him having the foresight to rule humankind in complete justice and remove those with an incomplete heart. At the end of thousand years jehovah will test each perfect person, just like he did Adam....... as a perfect human being they will have the wonderful opportunity to prove their faithfulness. The bible itself shows that jehovah will release the demons again and an indeterminable number of people (like sand of the sea), will rebel ( like Adam did)......or in greater numbers and with similar intent as Gog and Magog - to disrupt Godly rulership.... but Jehovah has proven that humans cannot rule the earth successfully - so they will go straight to second death.... by their own "perfect" choice. I see your point too! But we cannot be covering all "possible scholarly arguments" when talking to people about Jehovahs' purposes. Jesus is a good example to us. He knew the pharisees were argumentative and likely to divert attention from his message when they put themselves amongst the people. Consequently, he knew their bad intent, so he only answered them when the ordinary people, who were genuinely interested, could benefit from his reply to the learned pharisees. I have already preached to a group of Muslims where they all keep on listening ... despite the fact that one person is saying out loud that I am a false prophet. If they want to listen .... they will listen and go and think about it! We preach to those who want to listen and to those whom jehovah is drawing to Himself. We are not better than Jesus are we? We know that very few rich and powerful individuals listened to Jesus. They did not need him.... they wanted to destroy him.

Good for you! Witness is known here as an apostate and most of us ignore her - although she has some followers who think like she does. It is called Gog and Magog because the situation will ge very similar to Armageddon, wherein the enemies of Jehovah's rule will unify and form a coalition to destroy those who are faithful and holy here on earth.... those who obey instructions from Jehovahs appointed king. . Jehovah will once again step in and save those loyal to Him. He will remove all those who have been seduced by Satan - all opposors finally. No prolonged rebellion will be tolerated since the original issue, of who is the best ruler for the earth, has been proven.

No, we do not do the same. We do not promote man-made schemes.... which is what Peter referred to. He also mentioned the religious leaders of Jesus'day, who taught commands of men as doctrines. With this I will remind you of the basic teachings such as the trinity and immortality of the soul which are just two of the most false doctrines taught by christendom..