Witness
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4 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:
"But your example seems to be saying that it has its predictable drawbacks which will need to be discarded for another version."
this is how your weak attempts at twisting the words and their context completely fails..really fails
Do you believe their are some predictable drawbacks to the new "this generation" teaching?
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6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:
Yes. He said that because they had been wildly anticipating and speculating as to just when the end will come, imagining it imminent.
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” Acts 1:6
They asked this based on knowing Jesus was the promised Messiah through scripture. They were ignorant to what would happen next. They were taught by Jesus to understand, that more was to occur before the end came, and they never set a date for it after Jesus was resurrected. They heeded Christ's words.
Your leaders had this account to refer to, to learn from; but they didn't just "ask", they went ahead and created a date, more than once. They rejected what Jesus said in Acts 1:7.
6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:You will put aside your unhinged hatred of the Governing Body and come on board with their program.
Where the “Gentile” man of lawlessness “sits” in the Temple of God and rules over these living stones? (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) Where the elder body is "standing where it should not be"? No. We are to flee the organization when we perceive the takeover of the Temple in the anointed. Matt 24:15-16; Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1,2
Jesus’ spirit is not there. Dan 8:11-12
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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:
Granted, you did.
Here’s a fine article about the ‘mother of all lies’ retracted so that no one would believe the ‘lying apostate’ adage. Once again, as with you, it does not appear the lie was deliberate, but the malignancy of the writer is so intense that any ill-report, the wilder the better, is eagerly seized upon and heralded far and wide (and then it turns out to be untrue)
Now knowing that this writer twisted the quote, I would not defend him in any way. I also would not come to the defense of the accurate quote JWI provided, because its writers have twisted the word of God. By everyone’s upvotes when it was presented, most JWs here seem to defend something that turned out to be speculation not sourced in Holy Spirit. Remember, its message was heralded far and wide and then turned out to be untrue…and it caused tremendous damage to JWs. Was it intended? Was it hatred? Did the leaders learn from their past mistakes to stop projecting a date of Armageddon that always failed? Did they refer to the word of God before doing so?
Although I regret posting the quote because of its inaccuracy, in this case of quotes, what is the difference? What side of the fence should we be on when it comes to lies present on both sides?
I choose God’s word in Christ.
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.” Acts 1:7
- Srecko Sostar and Pudgy
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9 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:
truth is always constant it has to be ,what changes is the amount of light shinng on the truth ,more light equals more truth.
would you want to still be using windows 3 or 4 or 5 and the first apple phone the choice as always is up to you
Yes, truth, the entire truth in Christ, is always constant. But your example seems to be saying that it has its predictable drawbacks which will need to be discarded for another version. JWs are conditioned to believe this through the traditional teachings methods of their leaders. That’s like being given a piece of fruit where half of it is already rotting, but you’ll eat it anyway in anticipation of receiving another piece soon, with less rot. (Matt 7:17-20)
The scriptures tell us there is no sharing of the light of Christ’s truth with darkness or "rot". The entire piece of fruit from Christ is always “good”. The entire piece, remains. 2 Cor 6:14; John 15:16
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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:
HA! The crazy malignant woman. She surely knows better.
I do know better, and I apologized. 🙂 But do your leaders? After how many years of failed teachings, do they know better?
"This is what the Lord of Armies says: Don’t listen to what the prophets are saying to you. They fill you with false hope. They speak about visions that they dreamed up. These visions are not from the Lord." Jer 23:16
What about you? Do you know better not to listen to them?
- Pudgy and Srecko Sostar
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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:
Sloppy sloppy. Where do you get your quotations? The above quote is a lie. Here's the actual quote:
You’re right it was a sloppy choice! Too good to be “true”! I do apologize for not going to the source of the quote to double check it. Accuracy in quoting the org. is important. Funny though, the Wt’s sloppiness in making the prediction to begin with, never needed an apology – never needed a calling out by its members, when it failed and affected the lives of millions.
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15 hours ago, Anna said:
And after all these tests we encounter every day, then there will be another test to see how obedient we are to the GB?? Give me a break!
Dan 3:16-18; Isa 28:10; Acts 5:29; Gal 1:10; 2 Cor 11:20; Isa 2:22
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2 hours ago, Peter Carroll said:
only those in the truth ,would understand the correct point of view of changes over time ,those outside of the truth have no understanding ,therefore are in disbelief of whats happening ,it is becoming increasing divided between those in the light and those in the darkness ,as is obvious from the first post in this thread ,many have already been abandoned from the light already...this seperation will increase as humanity carries on in its ways.....for many its impossible to understand this,,
I agree that there will be a clear distinction between light and darkness, truth and lies and people must make their decision of which to follow (Mal 3:18; Joel 3:14; John 3:19-21), but are you thinking that the light of Christ, which are his words in scripture…which are the words of God…can involve falsehoods? Failed teachings? That's impossible, isn't it? Falsehoods stem from the devil, not Jesus Christ. (John 8:44) If one claims that Christ is leading JWs, then the GB's teachings would be just as reliable, just as lasting as his teachings; because, they are his teachings explained truthfully. (John 15:16) They would never cause disappointment to the listener seeking truth. They would never include the doctrine of men, which an organization requires. (Matt 24:24,25; 2 Pet 2:1; 1 Thess 2:13)
In any other aspect of life, I am sure you would be upset if you found that you were being misled for any length of time by a lie, that you were once convinced was TRUTH. How much more so, should you be upset to find that you were being told a spiritual lie by a religious leader.
Never would Jesus do such a thing. Never would he mislead someone with “bad fruit”. To believe he would offer unsound teachings, through someone he would send, is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. (John 13:20)
Do JWs believe that Christ’s admonitions, his commands, do not apply to your leaders? ( Matt 7:15-20)
"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come." John 16:13
Please tell me where in this defunct doctrine, you find a glimmer of light, of truth, from the Spirit of truth:
"The battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, but not years." (Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975, wt 8/15/1968).
2 Tim 4:3-4
The simplicity of Christ is pure light and truth, not something obscure, or shaky in its interpretation, or 'not sound from a human standpoint'. We are humans, and as humans we are told to "test the spirits" to make sure that what an anointed priest from Christ teaches is sound, nourishing "food" from the Father and the Son. ((Mal 2:7;1 John 4:1)
I gave scriptures that clarify truth in Christ is always sound – always “healthy”. Where in the scriptures can you verify that truth is not sound "from a human standpoint” – unhealthy – and in the last days must be offered to those who desire to know truth?
"Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 2 John 1:9-11
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“I have come as light into the world, so that everyone who believes in me would not remain in darkness.” John 12:46
Our belief in Christ involves obedience to his teachings, the Word of God. (John 12:49,50;14:23-24) Jesus said his words “are full of Spirit and life”, and they can direct us to the illuminated path leading to eternal life. (John 6:63; 8:12; 14:6) We would never choose to walk a path in complete darkness without another one’s assistance, or without carrying some sort of light or lamp. (Ps 119:105) By allowing our heart and mind to absorb and follow Christ’s teachings, we are equipped with the light of truth. (John 8:31-32) We will not be caught walking in the darkness of religious deceit in this world. (Ps 18:28; John 3:21; Phil 2:15)
“The lamp of your body is your eye. When your eye is sound, your whole body is full of light, but when your eye is evil, your whole body is full of darkness. So be very careful that your light never becomes darkness. For if your whole body is full of light, with no part of it in shadow, it will all be radiant—it will be like having a bright lamp to give you light.” Luke 11:34-36 (Phillips Translation)
Of the full gamut of teachings by the organization, is it not true that most beliefs of yesterday, lie in the shadows of the organization’s library of defunct doctrines? Each changed teaching is abandoned to its “dark corners”, as another translation puts it in Luke chapter 11. Yet these doctrines are still discretely catalogued, as if to boast that God has shown His blessings on the organization by providing JWs with “new light”. (Isa 59:8-10; Jer 9:5-6)
However, this “new light” concept, contradicts what God’s word describes as coming from the Father (Isa 5:20).
“Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.” James 1:16,17
To date, there are a half dozen shifting variations of the doctrine, “this generation” alone; but the perfect spiritual gifts of knowledge from the Father are “sound”, or translated in Luke 11:34 as “healthy”. His word in Jesus Christ is “good fruit” that feeds us spiritually. (Prov 8:19) Phil 2:16 tells us to “hold firmly to the message of life”. Should this good fruit that imparts eternal life, ever be replaced with the shifting, unsound doctrine of men, which the scriptures call “bad fruit”? (Ps 5:9; Matt 7:17,18; 2 Thess 2:1,2; 2 Tim 4:3,4; 1 Thess 2:13)
“This is the sort of thing you should teach, and if anyone tries to teach some doctrinal novelty which is not compatible with sound teaching (which we base on Christ’s own words and which leads to Christ-like living), then he is a conceited idiot! His mind is a morbid jumble of disputation and argument, things which lead to nothing but jealousy, quarrelling, insults and malicious innuendoes—continual wrangling, in fact, among men of warped minds who have lost their real hold on the truth but hope to make some profit out of the Christian religion.” 1 Tim 6:3-5
Jesus said those whom he sends would provide food/”fruit” that remains; healthful food from the vine symbolizing Jesus Christ. It would never be rejected and tossed into the shadows where countless Wt. doctrines resulting from their futile works in darkness, have fallen as rotten “fruit”. (Isa 59:21; John 13:20; 15:1,2; Matt 7:19,20)
“Do not work for food that does not last. Work for food that lasts forever. The Son of Man will give you that kind of food. God the Father has shown He will do this.” John 6:27
(Jesus used the terms, “bread” (John 6:32-33,35), “water” - John 4:10,14, “fruit” - Matt 12:33; Eph 5:9, and “meat” used in John 6:27, to describe the spiritual nourishment obtained from the Word of God – truth from Jesus Christ. Matt 24:45)
With Jesus’ guidance, we are provided a smooth path to our understanding of scriptures. (Isa 42:16) The disciples of Christ whom he sends to preach his word, are to let their light/”lamp” shine as well. (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:9; Luke 8:16; 1 Thess 5:5; 2 Cor 4:6; 1 John 1:56; 4:6)
Righteous teachings, the result of the light of truth, are never the cause of stumbling; but unrighteous dark teachings stemming from the hearts of corrupt men, cause one to sin, to stumble, as a result of their teachers’ lies. (Ps 56:13; Prov 4:11-12; 2:10-14; 82:5;4:19; Job 24:13; Rom 6:16-18; 2 Cor 11:29; 2 Cor 6:14)
Once our spiritual eye is open to the continuous and progressive light of truth, we can recognize that anything the governing leaders may demand of us outside of God’s word, involves blatant stumbling blocks we must avoid at all costs; but to those still blind, these treacherous and deliberately placed teachings lead their listeners deeper into the pit of darkness. (2 Pet 2:1-3,15,17-18) If these men were sent by Jesus Christ as a faithful and “sensible” slave, would they demand JWs to blindly obey instructions crafted from their “warped minds”, that do not have the backing of Jesus’ teachings? (Jude 1:4,12-13,16-19) (Prov 3:5-7; Matt 24:48-51)
Prov 30:6 – “Add nothing to his words, lest he reprove you and expose you as a fraud.”
When Jesus tells us,
that if our "eye is bad"/"causes us to stumble",
then the path we blindly wandered onto, contains stumbling blocks. We have drifted away from the path of life (Heb 2:1; Matt 7:14; John 14:6)This compares to our feet needing to be washed of their dust/death path (Ps 119:9,105; 1:1-2; John 13:13,14).
Our faulty perception (bad "eye") is like being blind, which leads us along a path of death, to fall into a dark pit (2 Pet 2:21). If not rescued from the pit, due to our begging God for light and accepting his spirit, we end up being condemned to Gehenna.The governing leaders predicted the coming of a future announcement containing “life-saving direction” that must be obeyed, whether it seems “sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not”. What will be the origin of this organizational decision? Well, it will not be sourced in the scriptures that tell us God’s word in Christ is always sound and leading to eternal life. (Rom 16:17-18; 2 Tim 1:13; 2:14-16) If we can grasp this point backed by scripture, should we ever entertain any spiritual direction that is warned as being not sound to our ears – not spiritually nourishing? ( Gal 1:8-9; 2 Pet 2:1; Heb 13:9; Titus 2:1)
These leaders’ “eye” perceives an unexplainable vague path ahead for JWs, based on “doctrinal novelty”. (Eph 5:6) While they demand JWs to work, or slave for the food they receive through their dedication to “Jehovah’s organization”, we can be certain their direction will be a decision made in darkness, void of any light from the Father and the Son. (Prov 2:12-15; Matt 24:24-26; Rev 13:16-17; 2 Pet 2:19; John 6:27; 1 John 1:6; Titus 2:7-8; Gal 1:10)
According to Luke 11:36 we should be capable of surmising that these are evil men with evil plans, which will stumble their hearers. (Job 38:15; Isa 28:7; John 3:19-20) They taunt the Word of God, living according to their will, and not the will of Jesus Christ. They prefer the darkness and the indulgence of their corrupt teachings. (2 Cor 6:14)
The book of Revelation speaks of a bright star, “blazing like a lamp”, that falls from the heavens. (Rev 8:10,11;9:1-2; 1 Cor 10:12; 2 Pet 3:17) This is Wormwood, a root of bitterness, which represents the fallen anointed leaders who no longer adhere to the word of God. They have betrayed their King, Jesus Christ. (Hos 9:1; Matt 24:11; John 15:5,6; Rom 1:21; Gal 1:6-9 Col 2:19; 2 Cor 11:1-2; 1 Cor 6:15-16; Rev 17:1-2,5; 19:11,15-16)
As 1 Tim 6:5 says, they have lost their real hold on the truth, but hope to make some profit out of the Christian religion. . (Luke 4:5-7; 2 Cor 2:17;2 Pet 2:1-3; Phil 3:18-19)
These spiritual harlots have traded their inheritance Christ promises to share with his faithful servants in the Kingdom, for a “morsel of meat”. (Gen 28:13-14; Ps 37:11; Rom 4:13; Heb 12:15-16)
When we are cleverly diverted away from the true bread from heaven (Christ -John 6:33), to learn from Satan through the false prophet and beast organization (Rev 16:13,14; 1 Tim 4:1; 2 Cor 11:3—4)
...If we progress and mature whole-souled in that deception, we come to know the deep things of Satan (Rev 2:24)... Satan's solid food... Satan's "meat".
The further down we go into such deceptions, the further down we sink into Hades / the abyss of darkness. Satan gets a strong hold on us, as if we are in chains.
And there we have it, with their “father of the lie” at the helm, the two Beasts of Revelation emerged in the last days to lead and stumble the holy anointed ones into sin. (John 8:44; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 13:1,2,6-7,10,11,12; 16:13-16) As God’s wayward priests, these leaders have built their religious organization on spiritual food “sacrificed to idols”, defiling all holy sacrifices that should be offered to God. (Rev 2:20)
They have not only defiled themselves, but all of God’s holy priests, His Temple, and all JWs who “married” into these teachings under the “woman” covenant of “Babylon the Great”. (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17) (Lev 21:6-8,11-12; 2 Cor 6:16; 1 Pet 1:15; 2 Pet 3:10-11; Isa 28:15-18; Rev 17:5; 18:4,9-10)
Under the rule of the Harlot/”wicked slave”, the ”glorious ones” ("lights" in Zech 14:6,7) have hidden their light of truth, under a basket. (Matt 5:14-16; 24:48-51)
Col 2:8 (NIRV) – “Make sure no one controls you. They will try to control you by using false reasoning that has no meaning. Their ideas depend on human teachings. They also depend on the basic spiritual powers of this world. They don’t depend on Christ.”
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21 hours ago, Arauna said:
Millennials find our big hair and bell bottoms very funny. Well, the things people found acceptable in that time was good enough for them..... the light is getting brighter!
Those teachings were taught at definite truth. That is deceit, not that is was "good enough" for those people who believed it WAS truth, and from Jesus Christ. Can't you see the blasphemy involved by telling people that they should believe a doctrine as truth, only to find out they were deceived? That is the clear sign of a false prophet, a false teacher; men who speak from their own heart's desires, their own mind. They are not led by Holy Spirit. (Luke 6:45; 2 Cor 11:15)
"The one who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him." John 7:18
Bell bottoms are back, and the Millennials are wearing them. Styles come and go, and come again. Your example does sum up Wt teachings. What will be the next subject of your teaching of “this generation”, worldly people, or the anointed? Which teaching will you be “wearing” at the doors a few years down the road? Ezek 13:17,18
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1 hour ago, Arauna said:
You want the truth to be truth with no changes.
Isn't that what Jesus expects of those whom he "sends"?
John 15:16 - “It is not that you have chosen me; but it is I who have chosen you. I have appointed you to go and bear fruit that will be lasting; so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give it to you."
Wt's changes are drastic, never holding the light of truth. Truth at its core, always radiates light in Christ. It is valid truth. It can't be argued away as lie.
Of this "truth", there is no core of light to build upon. It is all a lie -
1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)
I tried going to the JW website to get more surrounding information. The book is not available there. Maybe it held too many "truths" that weren't really truths? One obvious "truth" that no longer is truth according to your leaders, is the "antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom". Did you know they erased that as "truth"?
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53 minutes ago, Arauna said:
the light is getting brighter!
You are comparing the progression of Wt's "new light" to bell bottoms and hair styles?
Well, that about sums it up.
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2 hours ago, xero said:
People who whine about anointed stuff are just a bunch of Karens.
Every one of them should whine loudly in defense of the Temple of God. And if they whine loud enough and speak up for truth in Christ's teachings, you as an elder (if you are still an elder) are allowed by your leadership to disfellowship them, indicating by a lie that they no longer are spiritually alive in God’s eyes. (John 16:2,3; Rev 13:15)
But that is a good thing, sacrificing the life they had known, perhaps loved, to follow Jesus Christ who is truth. John 14:6
“For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life because of me will save it.” Luke 9:24
"I know your works. Look, I have placed before you an open door that no one can close because you have but little power; yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name." Rev 3:8
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2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:
Then it is really strange how once the fundamental truth was that YHVH commands the worship of Christ, and now you believe in another truth. Has the biblical text, translation, interpretation, or anything else changed?
https://ia600902.us.archive.org/5/items/WatchtowerLibrary/magazines/w/w1939_E.pdf
Interesting, isn't it? That "new light" removes the light source in Christ. John 8:12
1 hour ago, Anna said:Do you not think the anointed don't do this? I know for sure they do.
I know three anointed brothers who are also elders.
It seems this is what your main gripe is really about
How many elders are there world-wide?
From what I understand, there were around 20,000 who were partakers during your memorial. Excluding those who partook that are not anointed, and women, what number is left that could serve in the capacity of your elders worldwide? Throwing out three men who are both elders and anointed is a moot point considering the massive size of the elder body.
These anointed elders are working alongside “representatives” of God’s priests. Because of their blindness, or stubbornness, they don’t realize that they are “living stones” of God’s Temple/”house”/sanctuary in Spirit. They “are” the Temple - 1 Pet 2:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22
No one was to “represent” God’s priesthood in the early temples. (Ezek 44:6-9; 2 Chron 13:9) In the days of Uzziah, what happened when he brazenly offered incense in the Temple? (2 Chron 26:18) The priests came after him.
Uzziah, with a firepan in his hand to offer incense, was enraged. But when he became enraged with the priests, in the presence of the priests in the Lord’s temple beside the altar of incense, a skin disease broke out on his forehead. 20 Then Azariah the chief priest and all the priests turned to him and saw that he was diseased on his forehead. They rushed him out of there. He himself also hurried to get out because the Lord had afflicted him. 2 Chron 26:19,20
“For whatever was written in the past was written for our instruction, so that we may have hope through endurance and through the encouragement from the Scriptures.” Rom 15:4
Your anointed elders are not defending the spiritual Temple from “Gentiles” not sanctioned as God’s priests. God’s Temple is built on the anointed. The “man of lawlessness” “sits” (to set, appoint, to confer a kingdom on one ) in God’s Temple. 2 Thess 2:3,4
The elder body have appointed themselves as God’s priests, and are ruling as a “kingdom” over the anointed priests/Temple of God.
There is no other entity in the world, that can fulfill the coming of the man of lawlessness. JWs who love their arrangement in the elder body and organization, are condoning the existence of the man of lawlessness; preferring their “organizational arrangement” over the arrangement God had put in place in his Son.
“Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months.” Rev 11:1,2
When the anointed are replaced by elders not anointed there is no truth. (1 John 2:20) Truth is thrown down to the ground. (Dan 8:11,12)
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12 minutes ago, Anna said:
She also insists that we believe that 99.9% of people will be destroyed (or whatever number it is) because Br. Lett said so, and that Br.Lett (or was it Morris) also decides who is wicked. I find it too tedious to argue such nonsense...
I gave you quotes from your magazines that uphold Lett's words, and do not uphold your thoughts on the matter. That was my point. There is no distinction between those who reject the JW message at the door as the wicked, from what the articles say the wicked include - which is all people found outside of the organization.
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23 minutes ago, Anna said:
You know very well that what was meant was that the anointed should not group together for the purpose of organizing a kind of "elite" club and separating themselves from the rest of the flock.
You mean, like the elder body who attend their own meetings and attend elder schools – a privileged appointment of men who say they “represent the royal priesthood”? Is this what you mean?
24 minutes ago, Anna said:The anointed feel they do not need to do this in order to be members of Christ's body.
Only because men in power have told them this. Do you hold these men up to the level of the apostles?
The scriptures tells us that they must bond. 1 Cor 12:14-26
The apostles were active priests. Only your organization has taken away their activity as a collective body. Nowhere in the word of God does it say that the anointed are to remain idle until the Kingdom of God. Eph 2:20-22
I am presenting scripture to uphold my point. You are presenting the doctrine of men to uphold their organization’s requirements. None of that doctrine harmonizes with what the scriptures teach about the anointed ones.
“But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light” 1 Pet 2:5
The anointed in your organization cannot proclaim God’s praises of truth, without men regulating what they say. Oh, and they cannot act as priests since the elders have replaced them! (Mal 2:7; 2 Thess 2:3,4)
The organization is a stumbling block for the anointed. They have receded in the background, not following the example that the apostles set out for them.
Nevertheless, I have written to remind you more boldly on some points[i] because of the grace given me by God 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, serving as a priest of the gospel of God. God’s purpose is that the Gentiles may be an acceptable offering, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Rom 15:15,16
If you love the arrangement that you see in the Wt., you are obeying the doctrine of men, over the word of God. Ezek 44:6-9
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7 hours ago, Arauna said:
Those who were baptized in the time of Jesus formed a congregation and they worked together as a congregation. They were so separate from other religions that it was called "The Way". Loyalty to Jehovah, Jesús and their brothers was of utmost importance. Paul writes in his letters about the love in the congregation and how it must be expanded. Many sold their property to give to the congregation and share what they had with brothers so there could be an 'equalizing". The hospitality was outstanding and Paul often stayed with those whom accepted the faith. So, true faith is about serving the family of faith and looking after them - accepting them as your extended family and being part of that family. Acknowledging they are your true brothers and sisters.
Where is your extended family that you have become part of when you were baptized? (congregation, or body of Christ which you always refer to), those who share the same beliefs as you do?
My spiritual “extended family” includes exjws found worldwide, both anointed and disciples of Christ. We also have a few who never became JWs. But I've said this before. We care for one another freely, we support one another in various ways that you can’t imagine. There is no possibility of having this connection between anointed ones in the organization. Remember that are not to bond together, and the anointed are not be sought out?
The anointed have no family in Christ in the organization, because they are restricted by men’s doctrines. They have no association with the GB/ "anointed" in charge. Tell me, is that how an extended family shows love to their fellow brothers and sisters? If I or any anointed one was to show up at Warwick and asked to speak to my fellow brothers in Christ, would I be allowed to? No. They are too afraid that their power over all of you, will be shattered by any truth that would come from another anointed one's heart; so, they have set in place doctrine to avoid that. They practice exactly what they sarcastically tell anointed not to do.
Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior. They would also never suggest to others that these too have been anointed and should start partaking; rather, they would humbly acknowledge that it is Jehovah who does the calling of anointed ones. Wt 16/1
Flip these words around:
Immodestly, the GB claim to have more holy spirit than their anointed brothers and sisters. They claim that you must listen only to them and their special knowledge that they receive from "Jehovah's organization" (how does THAT work?). They try to prove that they are superior and demand obedience to them and their doctrine. They certainly suggest that they have been anointed, and that "Jehovah" chose them to be the one and only "faithful and discreet slave".
Deceitfully, they have isolated themselves from all other anointed ones, not seeking them out, and not bonding with them. After all, these other anointed ones "do not necessarily have more holy spirit" than the GB. So why "go there". Literally, they have gated themselves out of "harm's" way. They preserve their power and their fleshly desires to build and rule. Phil 3:17-19
And this fulfills your definition of family in Christ?
7 hours ago, Arauna said:You - are truly the one that twists words all the time.... and while you have a right to say the most vile things and the most untruthful and crazy things on this forum to get a like from all haters of JWs, we do not for moment even consider your extrapolations as honest or truthful because all your arguments have gaping holes in them!
I gave scriptures proving that your organization follows the doctrine of men concerning baptism, and not that of Jesus Christ; and you are bristling at the word of God? Are you stating that it is vile?
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9 hours ago, JW Insider said:
People complain about the idea that we tie baptism to an organization. But the primary intention is alway about doing our best to meet the standards of Jehovah's heavenly organization, an organization that only INCLUDES an imperfect earthly part. Also, I don't think that anyone would complain that an Amish baptism is meant to identify you as part of an Amish church, for example.
Shouldn’t they complain? Wt’s baptism is not based on scripture, it is a doctrine of men – the twisting of Christ’s words. We have warning after warning not to change the word of God, and it matters not if the Amish baptize into their church. Making the comparison does not condone the Wt. to do so, especially since your leaders say they strictly follow the scriptures. This gives good evidence that they do not!
9 hours ago, JW Insider said:All well-organized churches keep membership roles.
“You abandon the commandments of God to follow human traditions.” Mark 7:8
Christ gave a commandment about baptizing. Do we dare think we can change this commandment that comes from the Father?
"All these regulations refer to what is destined to perish by being used up; they are human commands and doctrines." Col 2:22
"‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.Their worship of me is pointless,
because their teachings are rules made by humans.’ ” Matt 15:8,9 -
2 hours ago, Pudgy said:
Again, 42.
Speaking of all things 'univers'...al, I thought you had a sci-fi book in the works. 🙂
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5 hours ago, Anna said:8 hours ago, Witness said:
Stephen Lett numbered the “wicked” against the number of JWs as “900 to one”. By calling them all wicked, he is essentially labeling all outside of the organization as having no chance of being saved at Armageddon. They have been judged by your leader.
He is "essentially labeling"? I don't think so.
What you believe and what you are being taught are two different things.
Soon, now, the wicked world will be destroyed. “Survival” chapter 13 p. 98-104
What will end, then? The present “age” of wickedness. W 74 1/1 p. 4
Soon Jehovah will annihilate all the wicked on earth, just as the Bible says. W 95 2/13 p. 13-17
At Rev 21:1 “the former earth” refers, not to this planet, but to wicked human society that will be destroyed. W 90 9/15 p. 5-7
Thus, the incorrigibly wicked will be gone, as will all wicked governments, which will be dissolved and replaced by God’s heavenly rule, or Kingdom. W 12 2/1 p. 25
After the wicked are destroyed, Jesus will rule as King for 1,000 years. Enjoy Life Forever Lesson 33
According to Lett, the "wicked human society" found outside of the organization, numbers 900 to 1. He is not distinguishing between those who have rejected the JW message and the rest of human society.
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4 hours ago, Anna said:
He is "essentially labeling"? I don't think so.
He told his audience that the wicked who are trying to "assimilate" them into their world, are numbered “900 to one”. He is labeling all outside of the organization as enemies, people to fear. And the enemies of JWs will be destroyed in Armageddon.
5 hours ago, Anna said:Yes, we agree God reads hearts, and yes, He will determine who is saved, regardless of what we think.
I appreciate your opinion, but is it also regardless of what A. Morris thinks? He put on quite a dramatic performance illustrating how those he hates will be destroyed.
4 hours ago, Anna said:"Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand".
Dear Anna,
The house built on sand, is a house that is built on wrong teachings, men's doctrines that are always shifting. There is ample evidence that this identifies your organization as the house built on sand. Think back from the beginning until now.
5 hours ago, Anna said:I had a class mate at school who believed in Jesus whole heartedly. She slept around and smoked.
I know elders in the area who laze around and get drunk. The same elders who hid a child abuse incident from the congregation. They claim to believe in Jesus.
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4 hours ago, xero said:
Anytime I hear the whiney sound "I was stumbled!" I want to dump a bucket of ice water over that person's head.
Why not just hold their hand over an open flame? To be stumbled spiritually by a spiritual leader is a grave sin. It is spiritual abuse. We don't respond with more abuse.
"Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?" 2 Cor 11:29
GWT - "When anyone is weak, I’m weak too. When anyone is caught in a trap, I’m also harmed."
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10 hours ago, Anna said:
At Armaggedon, only those people who have rejected the truth about Jesus and God will be destroyed. People cannot reject something they have never heard of, or don't understand.
An article from 1987, that goes back a ways! I think you would probably admit that everything you would like to believe about your Armageddon, can be found in the Wt articles and sifted to suit your conscience. Although, at the Annual Convention, Stephen Lett numbered the “wicked” against the number of JWs as “900 to one”. By calling them all wicked, he is essentially labeling all outside of the organization as having no chance of being saved at Armageddon. They have been judged by your leader.
Many people whole-heartedly believe in Jesus and God, but refuse the message of JWs. God reads those hearts, all hearts, individually. The message of JWs does not determines who is saved and who is not saved.
“For what business is it of mine to judge outsiders? Don’t you judge those who are inside?” 1 Cor 5:12
Paul is talking about the anointed of the Body of Christ. It is the message to JWs in the last days, specifically the anointed - God’s chosen people - that needs to be noticed and heeded. (Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:9; Matt 10:23; 1 Pet 4:17,18; Rev 18:4-8)
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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:
This interesting biblical quote points to another problem in WTJWorg (or in the individual believer). Religious JW leaders have been praying to God for 140 years for Bible truth and understanding. So they prayed for bread and fish. And they got something. They put it on paper and in public speeches. They developed doctrines and beliefs in these things.
Then they came to the conclusion that they did not get bread and fish, but stone and snake. They rejected doctrines and prayed to God again. Again they got something from God. So they rejected it again, because, it seems, they got a stone and a snake again.Boy, we’ve experienced that time and again in the Wt. There are keys we know we can consider when looking at “fruit” to choose from; and it should be our choice, not shoved down our throat with threats that we must submit to.
“As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord: “My Spirit who is on you, and my words that I have put in your mouth, will not depart from your mouth, or from the mouths of your children, or from the mouths of your children’s children, from now on and forever,” says the Lord.” Isa 59:21
If someone is given/chosen to receive the Spirit of God, their teachings would remain. (John 13:20)
“You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give you.” John 15:16
How easy it is for men to want their own ideas to fly. Like Russell and the pyramid/1914. Or Rutherford and Beth Sarim and his failed dates. Franz and 1975/ Armageddon. These were selfish, ambitious acts that don’t require humility to approach God with an honest heart for direction. None of those ideas were sourced in the Spirit of God according to Isa 59:21; which tells us, these people are not “part” of Christ who is the vine. The sap of this vine is Holy Spirit that reaches the branches. If an anointed one does not produce “good fruit” it proves they were never Christ’s disciples.
“I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do nothing without me. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown aside like a branch and he withers. They gather them, throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you. 8 My Father is glorified by this: that you produce much fruit and prove to be my disciples. John 15:5-8
This also shows the Wt. cannot, never has, and will not, glorify the Father – either by giving glory to His name, or to His works. It’s teachings/fruit never remains. It certainly will not glorify the Son, whom they say directs the congregations.
The GB are withering without the Spirit of God. They are feeding their people “vomit”. Incredibly they are actually regurgitating past articles, sprucing them up, and serving them again.
As a dog returns to its vomit, so also a fool repeats his foolishness. Prov 26:11
Indeed, all their tables are covered with vomit; there is no place without a stench. Isa 28:8
Rotten “fruit” never smells appetizing. Matt 7:15-20
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Watchtower 2017, Feb. p. 26 "Who is Leading God's People Today?"
We can also remember the Governing Body by following its instructions and direction. The Governing Body gives us direction through our publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions. It also appoints circuit overseers, who then appoint elders. By carefully following the directions given to them, the circuit overseers and the elders show that they remember the Governing Body. And all of us show respect for our Leader, Jesus, by obeying the men he is using today.—Hebrews 13:17.
18 Another way that we can remember the Governing Body is by doing our best in the preaching work. Hebrews 13:7 urges Christians to imitate the faith of those taking the lead. The Governing Body has shown great faith by zealously preaching and promoting the good news. Are we supporting those brothers in this important work? If we are, we will feel happy when we hear Jesus tell us: “To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.”—Matthew 25:34-40.
This is so ludicrous. Where does the GB get their directions, if they are not inspired by Holy Spirit? Isn't it interesting that the quote says to obey the GB, but show respect to Jesus. It should be the other way around - obey Jesus and his words, and if these men are doing the same, we can then show them respect. But as you pointed out, it is the GB's direction that must be upheld; and that, above any direction Jesus has already given us. It is amazing to me that their words carry more weight in the minds of JWs, than those of Jesus Christ. But it is planned it that way, they have blatantly compared themselves to the apostles. Instead, they are the false ones that the apostle Paul and Jesus warned us about - 2 Cor 11:12-15
Jesus' words in Rev 2:2 - "I know what you have done—how hard you have worked and how you have endured. I also know that you cannot tolerate wicked people. You have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not apostles. You have discovered that they are liars."
1 John 4:1 - Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
If JWs were obeying the words of Jesus, they would do what both he and the apostle John told us to do, that is to test what these men claim to be, by examining the "fruits"/teachings that they offer. Matt 7:15-20 They would discover that they are liars.
And the "least of these my brothers"? The least of Christ's brothers are being held captive by the power these men have wielded over them. (Matt 24:48-51; Col 2:8; Rev 13:10,15) The GB are the "great ones" of Mark 10:42-45 that Jesus warned his disciples not to imitate.