Witness

"Liquidating the Master's Belongings"??
 
 
 

Yeah and New Zealand has started their own investigation on the JWs too.

@Witness Yes, JWs ( GB / CCJW / Wt / NWT ) do seem to be the only ones using 'substituting'  for Christ. 
2 Corinthians 5 v 20
 
New International Version
We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

New Living Translation
So we are Christ’s ambassadors; God is making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, “Come back to God!”

English Standard Version
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God is beseeching through us. We implore on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

New King James Version
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.

King James Bible
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. This is not all of the translations available on Bible Hub. But it does bring in to question the reason for using the word 'substituting' as Witness has pointed out, especially when the GB say only they are the F&DS.  So, are the GB saying they they, those 8 men, are the substitutes for Christ ?  If so is this dishonest ? Or worse. 

I’ve learned something about WT’s version of 2 Cor 5:20  It is the only translation that I have come across that says, “ambassadors substituting for Christ”.  And they use the word twice, even though it is not stated in their Kingdom Interlinear:
NWT - “Therefore, we are ambassadors  substituting for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us. As substitutes for Christ, we beg: “Become reconciled to God.”  2 Cor 5:20
NKJV – ”Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.”
An ambassador represents another individual, but cannot be a substitute for the person.  He presents the message he brings from the one he is representing, for other to hear.  Yet, how fitting for the WT to say the GB are “substitutes” for Christ. It is quite clear they do not bring any message from Christ.  Indeed.
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”  Matt 24:25
If we look at the anointed as individual members of the same Body, they are to work synergistically with one another.  Every priest is a “messenger” from God, even though each one has a unique gift that contributes to the health of the entire Body.  (Mal 2:7; 1 Cor 12:12,13)  They are to represent Christ’s truth; so, yes, they are all ambassadors, or “preachers” of truth – of Christ, who is truth.  (John 14:6; 1 Pet 2:9)  Christ is the Head of the Body, and no one can replace him.  If they teach his truth, they are his representative. I hope that makes sense.
"Truly I tell you, whoever receives anyone I send receives me, and the one who receives me receives him who sent me.  John 13:20."
 “He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”  2 Cor 3:6
 “A person should think of us in this way: as servants of Christ and managers of the mysteries of God.” 1 Cor 4:1
Yes, I have learned since being out of the organization, that every anointed priest should be doing more than what they are allowed to, in the organization.  Truly, they are “trampled” as prophesied to occur in the last days.  Mark 13:14; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; Rev 13:5-7
The elders have become the GB’s ambassadors, relaying any and all doctrine from false christs, to the congregations. Rev 13:11,12; 16:13,14
 
 
 
 
 

I almost choked on a piece of watermelon reading this.  Any anointed one who desires to load every JW onto an airplane and fly them to the wilderness in Australia, possesses a very unstable view of the spiritual fulfillment in Revelation. But if the two of you work well together, that’s great!
Great Commission?  SM, I was a JW, not part of the Unification Church.  I’m sorry, but you will never get it!
As for my anointing, I don’t have to prove that to you, Kosonan or anyone else.  I’m not begging anyone to believe me, since I answer only to God and Christ.  2 Tim 2:15  
 
I think you really need to lighten up. Your determination to be beyond minutely critical of everyone's use of scripture, will only cause you health issues. I think you should pray about it.   But, even though my own life is incredibly crazy busy, I will attempt to “learn Concordances”, and I expect you will keep me in line about it.  I can’t promise anything though, since I go where the wind takes me.  🙂

"Yes. This person fully well believes that the wording in the verse, as I mentioned to you, changes everything, he even deems the Non-Trinitarian view as false."
I believe that SM was talking to someone else about me here in this conversation, on a different forum.. UM, he seems to KNOW exactly what I'm thinking or believing. Does he think he is now God ? 
I would imagine his intent was to get me a bad reputation. So sad when people have to go to such extremes. And he says he is a Christian ? He never even asked me exactly what i believed, he just made guesses. Does he even show any proof of his claims against me ? But if he finds it necessary to do this type of thing to people then he will likely be judged on it by God or Christ. 

Perhaps if go on JW broadcasting there is same level of self-confidence and self-assured visible. :))  

Just to add that what other HUMANS think of me is of little consequence.
We can expect to suffer insults and possibly worse, as we are Christians seeking truth from God through Christ.
Jesus was, counted amongst thieves, called a drunkard, called a glutton, and suffered death by torture.
Do you not think then that any follower of Christ should expect less ?
My Faith keeps me strong and I ask ONLY God's forgiveness through Christ.  I do not fear 'man'.
 
 

When I switched on my computer today i had around 20 comments up there. So I haven't yet read them all.
However, I would ask people to go back to the VERY TOP of the page, and to look at my very first comment, which started this topic. 
SM is making so many claims against me that I have to laugh at him or I would become annoyed. 
My first comment was a question as to why the GB / CCJW used over rather than on. 
SM, IT WAS A QUESTION. It was not a statement. Are you non English speaking ? Do you have to translate every thing I write ? Because you seem to have the wrong idea of everything I say. 
For instance, you pretend that I do not know that the Kingdom is in heaven.  Show me then where i have stated that the Kingdom is not in heaven. Give proof of your accusation. 
@Witness  Offered an explanation of the Bride of Christ being able to 'work' between heaven and earth.
Now we do know that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, but he took on human form many times to appear to his disciples. Even showing his hands to Thomas that had doubted. 
So, this shows the possibility of spirit / human transfer. Angels also have appeared in human form. 
Why would the GB / CCJW want to show the Body of Christ as only being in heaven ?
Because they want to promote the human Elders as being Princes here on Earth. By doing so they can give more 'power' to the Elders and ignore the Anointed ones. 
Wicked slave beating their fellow slaves. 
I do hope that people will begin to understand that i often write QUESTIONS.  Those questions are not statements. SM does not seem to be able to understand this fact. 
 

#8e44ad">Amazing idea you display. I am not so religious as you, but your statement showed lack of faith in Bible itself, and in spirit behind the book. Because many Christians would say how Bible words are sufficient for salvation, for understand God, for follow Jesus etc. :))))) You are amazing! So much efforts and energy and tone of words you using to show how few people here are wrong about something and now at the end of this show you said how people cannot rely on the Bible alone regarding analyzing verses.
#8e44ad">Your friends in JW Church will be disappointed with you if they notice what you put in comment. Your loving WTJWorg would say how Bible alone explaining itself. You and them are in a disagreement about this issue, and by that you can't support each other in anything at all. ........but.......
#8e44ad">On other hand WTJWorg supporting your idea on this with one crucial detail. WTJWorg GB said how reading Bible alone is not enough. They said how people need GB members and their Helpers for giving explanations about meaning of Bible text. In this you and them supporting idea how God's spirit means nothing. Is this blasphemy? :)))
#8e44ad">Oh how nice is to see so much religious people who fanatically fights for own versions of faith. I understand need and positive side when someone firmly standing for what he believe is true. But, what we have here or elsewhere  on forums is intellectually/emotionally colored about theories at the end of a day. We all need more to be active in normal helping activity for helping each other, (giving water and bread) and less about this.
#8e44ad">PS   I#8e44ad"> enjoyed while reading correspondence between you and your friends on another forum. Learned about you through their words. And they answered me on questions you did not want to answer when i asked you :)))))  

You did it just fine.     It was simple, wasn't it.  We all have access to the JW website, including you.  I honestly don't have the foggiest idea how the doctrine of the trinity got involved, because I don't read all that you carry on about.
I stated my case using scriptures against WT's doctrine that 144,000 will not step foot on the earth in the Kingdom of God.  We have all stated our case, including you.
 

I have brought out scripture after scripture.  If that is not enough to prove the point, then you are blind.

I am not interested in the doctrine of men.  I am interested in the scriptural harmony of truth. 

The early tabernacle/tent housed God's spirit.  In that sense, He resided among the people.  The "living stones" also "house" God's spirit.  They become the dwelling of God. 
1 Cor 3:16,17- “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?  f anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.”
We know God's spirit is not locked in one place such as a literal heaven, but can be everywhere.
1 Chron 17:5-6 "I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought Israel up out of Egypt to this day. I have moved from one tent site to another, from one dwelling place to another. 6 Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their leaders whom I commanded to shepherd my people, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?”’
The WT teaches that the 144,000 ruling "over" a people on earth requires being seated above them....literally.  Christ spiritually does "rule" over his anointed body members, as the head of the body. Yet, it is one spirit that flows through those members.  They are "one" in spirit.
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.  John 17:20-23
 
God will reside with His children on earth through the dwelling of His spirit - through the Body of Christ/Temple of "stones" - "144,000"
“Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God himself will be with them and be their God” Rev 21:3
 
 
 
 

 
 

You did it just fine.     It was simple, wasn't it.  We all have access to the JW website, including you.  I honestly don't have the foggiest idea how the doctrine of the trinity got involved, because I don't read all that you carry on about.
I stated my case using scriptures against WT's doctrine that 144,000 will not step foot on the earth in the Kingdom of God.  We have all stated our case, including you.
 

#8e44ad;">For the sake of argumentation, for wider context and to complete more about visions about "coming", i put some Bible verses, no matter what we have in mind while reading it and no matter about "versions" and interpretations we can make based on this verses: 
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.  - Rev 1 7
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. - 1 Thess 4 16,17
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. - John 14 3
And said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” - Act 1 11
#8e44ad;">It is interesting to notice past ways how God dealing with His Kingdoms. Old Israel Kingdom was visible on Earth with visible King on Earth. Jesus as His King also lived visible on Earth and established his Kingdom on Earth in shape of visible Congregation.
The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness;  nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.” - Luke 17 21
#8e44ad;">:)))) so much about theology, mine, your's or Bible hub's

I have brought out scripture after scripture.  If that is not enough to prove the point, then you are blind.

I am not interested in the doctrine of men.  I am interested in the scriptural harmony of truth. 

The early tabernacle/tent housed God's spirit.  In that sense, He resided among the people.  The "living stones" also "house" God's spirit.  They become the dwelling of God. 
1 Cor 3:16,17- “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?  f anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.”
We know God's spirit is not locked in one place such as a literal heaven, but can be everywhere.
1 Chron 17:5-6 "I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought Israel up out of Egypt to this day. I have moved from one tent site to another, from one dwelling place to another. 6 Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their leaders whom I commanded to shepherd my people, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?”’
The WT teaches that the 144,000 ruling "over" a people on earth requires being seated above them....literally.  Christ spiritually does "rule" over his anointed body members, as the head of the body. Yet, it is one spirit that flows through those members.  They are "one" in spirit.
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.  John 17:20-23
 
God will reside with His children on earth through the dwelling of His spirit - through the Body of Christ/Temple of "stones" - "144,000"
“Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God himself will be with them and be their God” Rev 21:3
 
 
 
 

 
 

I trusted my father.  Everyone in my town trusted my father and there was nothing wrong in doing that.  
The scriptures point to a certain type of man we shouldn’t trust - the arrogant ones, those who love their riches and the organization those riches produced. We don't trust those who put their organization before God.  It is these men among “Jacob”, that we are not to trust.
Isaiah, chapter 2
 

How can you profane a date?

I trusted my father.  Everyone in my town trusted my father and there was nothing wrong in doing that.  
The scriptures point to a certain type of man we shouldn’t trust - the arrogant ones, those who love their riches and the organization those riches produced. We don't trust those who put their organization before God.  It is these men among “Jacob”, that we are not to trust.
Isaiah, chapter 2
 

In Rev 5:10, the verb “epi” commonly translated as “over” by the WT, supports their doctrine that the 144,000 will be found ruling over the earth, from “heaven”.  If it was translated as “on” the earth, it would blow their doctrine to pieces. 
Scriptures support the use of “on” for Rev 5:10, since God’s word declares the anointed BRIDE “coming down from heaven” with Jesus Christ.  The Temple of God is not a fixed place.  It is like a “tabernacle”; mobile, built with “living stones”. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17 “New Jerusalem” is not a fixed place in heaven.  If it was, we wouldn’t find it coming to earth, “prepared as a bride for her husband”. 
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.  Rev 21:1-3
“After this I looked, and I saw in heaven the temple—that is, the tabernacle (tent) of the covenant law—and it was opened.”  Rev 15:5
“This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.”  Heb 8:10
The priests cannot teach God’s laws to His people, if they are stuck in heaven. 
“And that you may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD has spoken to them by the hand of Moses.”  Lev 10:11
“For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
And people should seek the law from his mouth;
For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.”  Mal 2:7
Can WT’s literal 144,000 priests remain in heaven and teach God’s laws to the people on earth?  That would take a huge bullhorn that each one must keep in a drawer of their literal green throne.  Maybe cell phones will still be in use. What the WT concocts ridicules God's Word.  
“Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”  Luke 17:20-21
The called, chosen and faithful "144,000", ARE the Bride of Christ, who will be found on the earth with Jesus.
But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:
“Let all the angels (messengers) of God worship Him.”  Heb 1:6
 
Jacob's Ladder - http://jacobsladder-obadiah.blogspot.com/