Shiwiii

Absolutely not. If Adam were perfect, not only would he not have sinned, just like Jesus who was perfect, but he would also not need a "helper" to complete him as stated in Genesis 2. Why would God say that it is NOT good that Adam was alone? The key words are, God had called His creation of Adam, good...very good, but nowhere does God state perfect. Good, not perfect

This leads me to the question of : Should a jw use blood, or even fractions of blood, if they are not willing to donate blood? Kinda hypocritical isn't it?

This portion of the transcript confirms exactly what I said, They would rather have to be forced to contact authorities then change their policy. This proves that they know the policy is flawed, but are reluctant to change it.

You either failed to do your research or choose to bury your head in the sand. Mr. Jackson admitted that their policy was flawed, but he wanted the ARC to force mandatory reporting so that the burden would not be on the society. So Mr. Jackson acknowledged that the ARC was not full of "lies", but rather correct.

SO What You Are Telling Me Is That You Learned Things Opposite Of What You Learned From Grade To grade? Not a building block from the grade before? Sad. Education is supposed to be a progression upon what you already learned, not a complete reversal of the grade before.

The WTS will NOT stagnate on its understanding by NOT putting the proper revision in place. Then why has the child abuse policy stayed the same? Not reporting to authorities on EACH AND EVERY CASE!

I would hope, that what you learned in “first” grade would be something entirely different in “Fifth” grade. Hogwash, each grade is built upon the previous, not changing to something opposite

You're probably right. Yes it is funny that they only believe that the 144k get the perfection like Jesus and the rest get perfection like Adam, but yet consider them equally perfect prior to Adam's sin. You know this word "perfect" and the jw meaning, fits perfectly in the B.I.T.E. model under the thought control. To most everyone the word means without flaw, unless it is spoken of in context to mean otherwise. But under thought control, they can freely switch it to whatever suits the need at the time and what works best for the group. This keeps the average group member in a cocoon of sorts and only those who are in the cocoon know what the words mean to them.

Your first two examples are speaking of Jesus, and I think we both agree that Jesus was perfect. Perfect in the purest form, without flaw or blemish. The second two examples are applied to men, however the difference here is that we as man can never attain perfection on our own merit. Jesus was not saying that if you sell all of your things and give it to the poor you will be perfect. Not at all, what He was saying was in your heart strive to help and bless others. Also, that in which you sacrifice, which has value here on Earth, to help others is an exchange for the blessings you will receive in Heaven. Not because you gave them up, but rather your hearts desire for others. This is God's love and that was what Jesus was saying in Matt 5:48, strive to have the same love for others as God has for you. We can never make this happen on our own, because we all fall short of the glory of God. Do you really believe that Jesus was saying we could actually be perfect here and now, just as the Father is?

that very well may be their position, but the fact of the matter is that perfection has no flaw. A perfect puzzle piece fits without gap. It fits the purpose it was designed for, but in no way is it perfect. It is made of cardboard and when wet it deteriorates. I can accept the application of something being a perfect fit, but to assign perfection as a whole to Adam and Eve is wrong. They were designed to perfectly fit the environment God created for them, but they themselves were not "perfect, without flaw or blemish" or they would have never sinned. The perfection that one attains at the time of God's calling to Himself, is perfection in the absolute sense. This is not attainable while we are still here on Earth and absent from the Lord.

You acknowledged and even said that Jesus was the only Perfect. Here is your statement, if you happen to have forgot: The only Perfect being by his sacrifice was killed by who, imperfect humans. You said it, I didn't have to put words in your mouth!

So now you agree that there has only been ONE perfect, Jesus. There goes the theory that Adam and Eve were perfect.

Then it is not perfect. Perfection has no flaw. You cannot create a flaw within a perfect diamond, either it is there or it is not. You can choose to believe that something is perfect and can still not be perfect by choice, if you wish. But, in that scenario the perfection is a mirage and really didn't exist, you just chose to believe it was. Jesus became a man, but His qualities and abilities are far beyond what a normal man can do. If your belief that it is possible for a human to be perfect, why has there NEVER been a person who attained this?

Lets not forget that the Greek word for perfect (G5048), which is found in the NT in Luke, John, Acts, 2 Cor, Phil, Heb, James and 1 John, NEVER appears in Revelation, where the wt has deemed the progress to perfection is being spoken of out of "new scrolls" being taught in Chapter 20. Also, if you notice that in Hebrews 10:14 we are told that Jesus, by His death and resurrection, has made perfect for all time those who are sanctified. not in a progression, but rather immediate. This sanctification is a putting aside for a purpose or calling. I am not saying that anyone is perfect right now, but the perfection comes when Jesus gives it and it is not a progression.

Is that all encompassing? Seems pretty general to me. If we look at the definition from a few sources it becomes a little more clear: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/perfect?s=t adjective 1. conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type: a perfect sphere; a perfect gentleman. 2. excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement: There is no perfect legal code. The proportions of this temple are almost perfect. 3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose: a perfect actor to play Mr. Micawber; a perfect saw for cutting outkeyholes. 4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings: a perfect apple; the perfect crime. 5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail: a perfect copy. 6. thorough; complete; utter: perfect strangers. 7. pure or unmixed: perfect yellow. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perfect 1 perfect play adjective per·fect \ˈpər-fikt\ Popularity: Top 20% of words Simple Definition of perfect : having no mistakes or flaws : completely correct or accurate : having all the qualities you want in that kind of person, situation, etc. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/perfect per·fect (pûr′fĭkt) adj. 1. Lacking nothing essential to the whole; complete of its nature or kind. 2. Being without defect or blemish: a perfect specimen. 3. Thoroughly skilled or talented in a certain field or area; proficient. 4. Completely suited for a particular purpose or situation: She was the perfect actress for the part. 5. a. Completely corresponding to a description, standard, or type: a perfect circle; a perfect gentleman. b. Accurately reproducing an original: a perfect copy of the painting. 6. Complete; thorough; utter: a perfect fool. 7. Pure; undiluted; unmixed: perfect red. 8. Excellent and delightful in all respects: a perfect day. http://www.yourdictionary.com/perfect adjective The definition of perfect is someone or something that is excellent, correct and flawless. perfect complete in all respects; without defect or omission; sound; flawless in a condition of complete excellence, as in skill or quantity; faultless; most excellent; sometimes used comparatively: “to create a more perfect union” completely correct or accurate; exact; precise: a perfect copy without reserve or qualification; pure; utter; sheer; absolute: a perfect fool, perfect stranger designating a binding of books in which pages are glued to cloth or paper at the spine rather than having the signatures sewn together BOT. monoclinous GRAM. expressing or showing a state reached or an action completed at the time of speaking or at the time indicated: verbs have three perfect tenses: simple (or present) perfect, past perfect (or pluperfect), and future perfect MUSIC designating an interval of a unison, fourth, fifth, or octave We must take into consideration the context of what the Bible is saying when this concept is being applied. While I do accept the answer you have given, I feel it is limited and does not apply itself to the context of where you place it within the Bible. Perfection is the lack of defect, flaw, sin, deceit, malice, slander, etc. Clinging to the only definition that can possibly apply to how the wt chooses to use it, does not negate the fact of what the word truly means.

Nope, not robots at all. My question to you to clear this up a bit would be what is perfection? Is perfection having an internal flaw? blemish? Or is it perfect without spot?

Thank you, I do need prayer. I think the biggest problem I have with this is the lack of remorse on her part.

Thank you for your answer. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

Is cheating allowed if the one cheated on is not a witness? Seems that way. She hasn't told her elders and is waiting for me to file divorce papers to tell anyone she knows. Is this a tatic to hide her infidelity and place the blame on me? Doesn't really matter what I have or have not done. By the way, no physical abuse, no abuse at all. We just didn't see eye to eye like every couple on the planet from time to time. I never stopped her from going, nor did I stop our children from going with her. I'm really thinking this is normal behavior for jws. I mean her mom did the same as well as her older sister. I've forgiven her and am not mad at her any longer. It was her choice, not mine. She chose to do this to our family. I have talked to her and explained this to her already. There is no reconciliation possible. I'm just flabbergasted that she would throw her family away like this. Will she be disfellowshiped?

What??? Didn't you just get through telling me that I was the one who applied these labels? now you want to say it was God? Why don't you read what you wrote a few posts back and get back to me. You need to clarify where you are coming from if I am going to continue a discussion.

The instrument is broken, all of them!!!! That is why we are to follow Jesus and not ANY so called organization. I say so called because those in each organization do not and cannot follow men, because men change their ideas to suit their needs.

I didn't choose the label, the WT did. I didn't apply the conditions of these people, the WT did. I didn't say who would make it and who wouldn't, the WT did. Read your Revelation book, Aid to bible understanding, reasoning from the scriptures, etc. Its all there where the WT has made these claims, I am just asking you about them, and how YOU align that with the Bible. Obviously you are not in agreement with the WT on this one, so tell me what you do believe.

Then how can some of them side with Satan if they are perfect?

but the point is that they are JW's who have gained perfection, or so the society says. The Bible speaks of those who align with Satan after the 1000 year reign, and according to WT theology they have to be JW's and they have to be perfect.

JWT, It is true that the society believes that only JW's will survive Armageddon. So then only JW's will be there at the end of the 1000 year reign. If only JW's are there after 1000 years, then they HAVE to be the ones who, after being made perfect, would align themselves with Satan by not submitting to Christ. Thus be on the opposite side of God and aligned with Satan, and ready for war against the saints.