HollyW

On 6/21/2016 at 11:38 AM, Melinda Mills said:

 

Melinda, you say that the ones in the first resurrection won't be subject to death.  What about those in the resurrection when the 1,000 years have ended?  After the final test at the end of the Millennium, will it be possible for those folks to sin and die?

On 6/20/2016 at 7:00 PM, Melinda Mills said:

Those in the general resurrection as well as Armageddon survivors who are obedient during the 1000 years will come to life toward the end of the thousand years as the priestly services of Jesus and the 144,000 priest-kings will be applied to them.  They will be gradually healed of their imperfection or restored to the perfection the human race had before Adam sinned (rehabilitation).  It doesn't mean they are now being resurrected (out of the grave)  at the end of the 1000-year reign. It means they have been rehabilitated for that period through the priestly services of the King and his associates and they have now reached the state of perfection.  Just as Adam faced the test in the garden of Eden as a perfect person,  they will now face the final test and Satan will be let out of the abyss to do so. Those who submit to Jehovah's sovereignty, unlike Adam, will be granted eternal life.  See excerpt below.

*** re chap. 40 p. 290 Crushing the Serpent’s Head ***The Rest of the Dead

^{14 Whom, though, will these kings judge if, as the apostle John here inserts, “(the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended)”? (Revelation 20:5a) Again, the expression “come to life” has to be understood according to context. This expression can have varying meanings in varying circumstances. For example, Paul said of his anointed fellow Christians: “It is you God made alive though you were dead in your trespasses and sins.” (Ephesians 2:1) Yes, spirit-anointed Christians were “made alive,” even in the first century, being declared righteous on the basis of their faith in Jesus’ sacrifice.—Romans 3:23, 24.}

^{15 Similarly, pre-Christian witnesses of Jehovah were declared righteous as to friendship with God; and Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were spoken of as “living” even though they were physically dead. (Matthew 22:31, 32; James 2:21, 23) However, they and all others who are resurrected, as well as the great crowd of faithful other sheep who survive Armageddon and any children that may be born to these in the new world, must yet be raised to human perfection. This will be accomplished by Christ and his associate kings and priests during the thousand-year Judgment Day, on the basis of Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. By the end of that Day, “the rest of the dead” will have “come to life” in the sense that they will be perfect humans. As we shall see, they must then pass a final test, but they will face that test as perfected humans. When they pass the test, God will declare them worthy of living forever, righteous in the fullest sense. They will experience the complete fulfillment of the promise: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” (Psalm 37:29) What a delightful future is in store for obedient mankind!}

Hi Melinda,

So, when Abraham is resurrected during the 1,000 years, will he be considered righteous, or will he be considered dead until the end of the 1,000 years?

On 6/19/2016 at 6:05 PM, Glenn Leider said:

(Revelation 20:1-7) "And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.

7 Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison."

=====================================================================

The key to understanding when the earthly resurrection takes place is in the clause "(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.)" at the start of verse 5. Since verse 4 states that the ones with "thrones... came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years," these ones who "came to life" means they were resurrected as perfect beings.

It would do no good for them to have NOTHING over which to rule as kings, it would have to be over the "great crowd... who come out of the great tribulation" (Revelation 7:9,13,14), as well as those not of "the first resurrection" of heavenly ones, but of the general resurrection. That all of these could be called "the rest of the dead" harmonizes with Ephesians 2:1: "Furthermore, God made you alive, though your were dead in your trespasses and sins." At the end of the 1,000 years, these achieve perfection, being completely free from sin, and so "come to life" at this point.

The foregoing shows that the general resurrection would have to take place during the 1,000 years, for those resurrected to "come to life" at the end of the 1,000 years.

Hi Glenn,

I'm glad you posted the passage there in Revelation 20 because it shows the two occurrences of "come/came to life", one following the other in adjacent posts. (I hope there's spell check here.

Why is the second "come to life" called a resurrection?  Do you view those on earth as being dead until the end of the 1,000 years?

On 6/20/2016 at 2:50 AM, Ann O'Maly said:

So basically, Glenn, it looks like you are arguing that the phrase 'came to life' has a different meaning depending on the group. 

One group is resurrected to perfection.

The other group is resurrected to imperfection ... until they've 'achieved' sin-free perfection at the end of the 1000 years.

Where is the scriptural evidence that one group has to 'achieve' perfection during the 1000 years?

If one group is resurrected perfect, why can it not be that the other group is resurrected perfect but at the end of the 1000 years, in harmony with the timing contained in v. 5's parenthesis? 

 

Hi Ann,

Good point and good question.  I always wondered why "come to life" was interpreted so differently by the WTS in this passage..  As you pointed  out, in one instance they say "come to life" means one thing, and in the very next sentence "come to life" means something else.  And actually in the second instance they have it not meaning "resurrected" at all, but more like "self-improvement" (i.e. improving oneself thru study of WT publications until able to meet God's standards mentally, morally, physically, and spiritually---and can thereafter stand before God and continue to live based on ones own merit......continuing to live for as long as they don't sin and get annihilated in the lake of fire.)