Anna

1)      How about  John 11:26? Obviously  those people in Jesus’ day died. But they didn’t die in Jehovah’s memory and will have the prospect of living forever. Although obviously Rutherford was being literal, we could look at it in a similar way, so in view of the above, it was not a lie.
2)      In my opinion the GB etc. never prophesied about  anything as such. What they put forward was merely the interpretation of existing Biblical prophecy.
3)      Not sure about that one...
4)      After the disappointment and anticlimax of 1914 I guess they  now felt excited and vindicated when they were exonerated and released from prison, and felt this was a good a time as any to “recognize” themselves as the FDS with now the great task of taking care of the domestics and advertising the King and his Kingdom. They recognized that evidently the job Russell started was not done.
5)      To me personally it does not matter. Fundamental truths are the same and have been almost since the inception of the Bible Students. I don’t view it as a false prophesy, merely an eager and ambitious statement coming from one man and his associates excited about this “new” understanding and  Bible prophesy regarding this subject.  After all, this IS the good news in the Bible, so I don’t think that just because the timing is off, one has to view it with suspicion, or that it should have never been talked about. "Millions now living will never die" WILL eventually happen.
6)      Possible....Plus Jehovah’s organization on earth will never get everything  perfectly right in this system, for obvious reasons.
So that's my two shillings
 

1971 The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 70 par. 33 Commissioned To Speak In The Divine Name 
33. Likewise it was a trying mission upon which the modern Ezekiel class was sent, to religious people the same type as those in Ezekiel's day, But regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom will know that really a "prophet" of Jehovah was among them.
wt 08 7/15 p. 11 par. 17 Meeting the Challenges of the House-to-House Ministry
Jehovah assured Ezekiel that when the judgments he proclaimed came true, the rebellious house of Israel would “certainly know also that a prophet himself happened to be in the midst of them.” (Ezek. 2:5) Similarly, when God carries out his judgments against the present system of things, people will be forced to recognize that the message Jehovah’s Witnesses preached in public places and from house to house actually originated with the one true God, Jehovah, and that the Witnesses really did serve as his representatives.
I am not sure we have such a rigid interpretation now as in the Nations Shall Know days.
Well don't you feel that the honesty should extend to defining "prophecies" in a way that reflects the non-scriptural understanding of this word?
Mistakes, misjudgements, misapplications, errors etc. are well within the province of imperfect men who are unable to 'bridle the tongue' (compare Ja. 3:2).
But given the scriptural association of the term "false prophecies" I feel this designation is exceeding even James' earlier words at Chap 3:1 regarding the "heavier judgement". And in the context of the divinely commissioned role of an inspired prophet of Jehovah, simply not possible. There, I feel, lies a distinction with distinction.
I agree with this statement entirely and I am looking forward to revisiting this whole area in our consideration of the book God's Kingdom Rules. 

I think this issue has to do with Jehovah's witnesses' understanding of the terms "prophet" and "prophecy" and how they are scripturally applied, whether "true" or "false". And we would have to include our understanding of the role of Jehovah's witnesses in the mix. Much has been said on this matter with vast supporting references and quotations elsewhere in the forum so I will be as brief and simple as I can.
Whilst Merriam-Webster includes a semblance of the comparatively narrow scriptual definition of a "prophet", it also indicates a rather broader application in modern speech. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prophet .
However for Jehovah's Witnesses, the scriptural understanding of the word is summed up in the article "Prophet" in the book Insight on the Scriptures Vol 2 with such statements as:
"One through whom divine will and purpose are made known.." ;
"..true prophets were no ordinary announcers but were spokesmen for God, ‘men of God’ with inspired messages." ;
The messages (prophecies), whilst often connected with future matters, are not limited to this, but share the common factor of being divinely inspired of God, thus without error. (2Tim 3:16). As such, if predictions, they would be fulfilled, and if in the form of statements of fact, divine judgement, intention, direction, or instruction, they would be correct, and binding upon those to whom the message was directed. These prophecies, regardless of form, would be uttered with the overall aim to enable man to bring his ways, desires, and goals into line with the divine will. (Rev.19:10; Eph.1:10)

The role of prophet would thus be greatly privileged, but, by it's nature of divine appointment, highly accountable. This can be seen in the severe biblical condemnations of what are termed "false" prophets. (De.18:20) Self-appointed or corrupted, these false prophets made pronouncements that "lulled the people and their leaders with soothing assurances that, despite their unrighteous course, God was still with them to protect and prosper them." The activity of false prophets  is not limited to ancient times either (Matt. 24:11; 2Pet.2:1). As such, they serve the interests of the Devil, and are termed even as "inspired by demons".(Compare 1Jn 4:1-6; 1Tim.4:1;Rev.13:14)
Jehovah's witnesses do not see themselves as divinely-inspired in the sense the prophets of old were. Therefore, they do not see their teachings in quite the same light as the divine pronouncements of the prophets of old. 
So in view of the scriptural anathema attached to the term "false prophecy" and the specific scriptural understanding of that term as opposed to additional secular definitions, I can understand why we would be reluctant to apply the term "false prophecy" to any mistaken views we may have held in the past or even will hold in the future. These are mistakes, misjudgements, misapplications, errors etc.
But by the same token, I see no contradiction in applying the term "false prophecy" to any teachings or pronouncements from any source that serve to lull the people and their leaders with soothing assurances that, despite their unrighteous course, God is still with them to protect and prosper them, particularly in this "time of the end".  Rev.13:13-16.

It is pretty clear that it is impossible for millions who were living in 1925 and prior to never die as they are likely already ...dead!
But you know, I am loathe to term the famous slogan "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" as a false prophecy similar to something like "infants who die will be safe in the arms of Jesus and will spend eternity with Him in heaven." This is the sort of thing used by some religious groups to comfort those bereaved of infants. Or how about "Put the Church Behind Pershing. To win this war the boys at the front need strength of spirit " used by the American Bible Society to fund-raise for Bible distribution to soldiers during WW1?
Intrinsically,"Millions Now Living Will Never Die" is a true statement. What was wrong about it was the timing and the context of it's application.
To borrow Paul's illustration, Christians are likened to runners in a race. Well, most of us have seen a false start haven't we? The tension and excitement of the moment can carry away even the most seasoned athletes on occasion. And the alertness and eagerness of sincere Christians to the return of Christ has given rise to false alarms in modern times, even as it did amongst the disciples. The good thing about a Christian "jumping the gun" is that they can always get back in the race.
As a rallying cry, the Millions slogan certainly captured the attention of many. Preaching in the 70's, I still met people who had attended one of these lectures by Judge Rutherford. Many may have dropped out with expectation unfulfilled, but any who were alerted to the Bible's message by the Millions campaign, and who are still active Jehovah's witnesses, are unlikely to have regretted that decision although their number would only be a fraction of the "Millions" expected at the time.
Would it have been better to use a slogan like "Billions Now Living Will Die For Ever" ? Attention grabbing maybe, but I think I prefer the original.
Someone said "False starts may be considered illegal, but in life, I’d rather have a false start than no start at all." 

Those are loaded questions! 
I find it quite fascinating reading the scriptures and our attempts to put the pieces of the puzzle together.  However, try as we might, these things can be difficult to figure out as we can see from all the different dates and times.
 
The slogan can't possibly be true.  I don't think it was haughtiness or self serving, whether it's 1914, 1919, 1925 . . . but at best wishful thinking or filling in the blanks and hoping it's right.  (smile)  Many Catholic and Protestant denominations are guilty of the same.  So it makes me wonder why JW's get stuck in the false prophecy pit or why people care to the extent that they do.  The counter argument is that many lost faith, so was their faith in a date? 
 
Every 3 months or so what was written previously, is not admitted as wrong or false prophecy, but a better or more accurate understanding, whether we agree or disagree with past, present interpretations.  Whereas, opponents will most definitely cite any inconsistency as false prophesy.  I remember a case whereby the disciples circulated a rumor John would not die, when something entirely different was meant.  Did that misunderstanding make them false prophets?  I think Jesus and Jehovah understand the imperfections of man.  From the original writings, we have several copies not totally consistent with each other, however not every word or letter has to be exactly perfect in order for us to understand God's will and purpose.  Not every saying, understanding, or interpretation of the faithful and discreet slave will always be exactly perfect or essential in order for us to understand God's will and purpose.  I hope this makes some sense.

Our concern for who will be saved is best transformed into action on two counts.
1. 2Tim.4:2:  
"Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times"
2. 2Pet.3:14
"Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace"
Paul reinforces this second point:
Phil.2:12 "keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
 

Something I thought might be relevant since we are studying the God's Kingdom book. Not long ago, in a WT article, it was mentioned in reference to the "Kingdom being preached in all the inhabited earth" that this will not mean that literally everyone on Earth would have heard about the Kingdom before Armageddon starts.
When one does a bit of mathematics (not my forte) and calculates the percentage of current Jehovah's Witnesses in comparison to the World's population we arrive at 0.1%. This is a very small percentage indeed. (8 million JW to 8 billion population)
If we were to assume some averages, and use the United States as a fair example, then we can assume the ratio of 1 publisher to roughly around 400. This seems a fair number since "only a few are the ones finding the road to life". However, as we know, there is practically a non existent ratio when it comes to India and China, two of the world's countries with a population of over 1billion each (the majority of whom have never heard of the Bible, never mind Jehovah's Witnesses).  If we would assume the same ratio of 1:400, then this would immediately create over 3 million Witnesses in each of the two countries, i.e. over 6 million in India and China alone, bringing the total of JWs to over 14 million. If we were to also add 650 thousand in Indonesia, 485 thousand from Pakistan, and 402 thousand from Bangladesh that adds another 1.5 million bringing the total to over 15 million, almost doubling the Witnesses today.
If we go by the fact that all people are equal in Jehovah's eyes, and that no nation is above another when it comes to salvation, and that all people are basically the same, then we have to assume that there are people in those countries who, if given the chance, would embrace the truth and put themselves on Jehovah's side and create that ratio of 1:400.
With that in mind, it is evident that either there is going to have to be a lot of preaching done, verging on the miraculous, in order to bring in over 7 million new Witnesses within the allotted time of the "Generation", or, Jehovah will judge their hearts and allow nearly HALF of the people, (agnostics or believers in false Gods) entry into the new world without them even needing to know him.
Or, is "this Generation" a lot longer than we think.....
Any scriptural thoughts?
 

Now a group of scientists in the UK have claimed to have discovered the right way to manufacture synthetic blood and have even succeeded in doing so. The National Health Services of UK has announced its decision to start experimenting on synthetic blood in 2017 on a group pf 20 people. The blood substitutes are not meant to replace blood, the scientists said. Instead, synthetic blood is only meant to carry out the functions of actual blood wherever it fails. As such, synthetic blood transports oxygen.
 

Imaginative, but of course the big "IF". (My formatting).
Subsequent speculations on "Martha" are subject to that suppposition. 
Were you(@HollyW a Jehovah's Witness during the period you reference in your hypothesis?
I was, but your scenarios bear only a 60% resemblance  to what was my experience so, unfortunately, there is a bit of a credibility gap in your assertions.
I wish we could get some authenticity into these postings....................................
 

I am not going to quote scriptures - just reason with you: There is a difference between willful sin and unpardonable sin.  When one commits adultery one 'knows' that it is wrong - so one can equate it with willful sin which is committed out of weakness.   However, can one equate this sin with someone who has tasted the love of Jehovah's spirit and then turned against Jehovah and his organization in full hate and try to stumble as many people as possible? .... this is equal to the sin of Satan - an unpardonable sin.
Although many apostates have returned it does not mean that all apostates have committed the unpardonable sin. Jehovah is the one who knows if someone has sinned against his Spirit so that they will not return to his organization.   The sin they have been 'practicing' has hardened their heart to the extent that they become like pharaoh - self-willed / self-righteous to the extent where they will never subject themselves to Jehovah or his organization ever again.
I am not hateful and neither do I try to make you feel bad.  Maybe you call our thoughts drivel because you feel that your understanding of the scriptures is correct..  Although Jehovah is 'exacting' he is not as harsh as some people assume he is - he has forgiven huge sins.... but it depends on the person; and if they are truly repentant and willing to work with his people.  If they have a problem with this - then it  demonstrates a personality that needs adjustment.  And here I am talking personality again... do you know why?  Because the Christian personality is our identifying mark for survival when Armageddon arrives. This personality is what we all should be working on at present - to comply willingly and fully to Jehovah's standards and cooperate with his people.  If we sow discord, show willfulness, egotism, self-righteousness or any other qualities that can bring divisions (or separates us from his congregation) - we are out of sync with what Jehovah expects from us. We may be corrected by the congregation (Jehovah) because these are qualities that need to be worked on.. Those who separate themselves are searching for their own interest.
The wicked willfully separate themselves from Jehovah and his organization. If one reads the scriptures daily one will find that most of the Greek scriptures (writings of  Paul, James etc.) is admonishment to develop the qualities Jehovah expects from us.
 
 
 
 

In the 2015 brochure, "Return to Jehovah", the parable about the Prodigal Son is referred to and seems to indicate that inactive ones who return, even after 40 years, and confess sins such as having celebrated holidays, gone to other churches, been involved in politics, and probably much more, will be forgiven and welcomed back in the same way as the prodigal son:
From page 10 of the brochure:
 
Jehovah does not abandon repentant sinners. In fact, he reaches out to them! In the parable of the prodigal son, Jesus compared Jehovah to a loving father whose son abandoned his family and pursued a debauched life. In time, the son decided to return home. “While [the son] was still a long way off, his father caught sight of him and was moved with pity, and he ran and embraced him and tenderly kissed him.” (Luke 15:11-20) Do you wish to draw closer to Jehovah but feel that you are “still a long way off” from him? Like the father in Jesus’ illustration, Jehovah is moved with tender compassion for you. He is eager to welcome you back.  
 
This even might indicate that they should be welcomed back right there in the parking lot when someone sees them drive up.

Let me know where you post it! :-)

Proud to be a Witness of Jehovah - to stand united in our neutrality regarding this worlds divisive affairs and politics.  I know we are the custodians of the Truth because no other nation has the insight to understand this: we are in this world but no part of the world.  We all are loyal only to Jehovah and his enthroned king and a peaceful, self-sacrificing lifestyle of which Jesus provided an excellent example. Let Jehovah find us all in peace and without spot from this world!

To answer the question about whether it is better to hide or reveal our own sins, it is better to confess before Jehovah and before the congregation. Everything done in the darkness will come to light. It's true that some sins can remain hidden for an entire lifetime, but is our own ego so important that we believe the congregation must continue to see the benefit of services we provide as an elder or ministerial servant? There is no reason for a person who has been guilty of a serious sin to think that the overall congregation is somehow benefiting so much from one's appointment to a "named" position, and that they would somehow need his talks or his shepherding. Confessing sins serves the purpose of a clean conscience with Jehovah, and indicates humility, and it indicates our faith that Jehovah sees the heart, whether or not the congregation would have ever known or not.
The congregation needs various positions of responsibility, but not everyone needs to minister in the same way. Not everyone needs a "title." In fact, all Christians have the title of "minister" in the sense of being a "servant." All Christians can do some things and even many things that help our fellow brothers and sisters. The congregation is built up in this way when we do fine works for each other:
(Hebrews 10:24, 25) 24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.
(Ephesians 4:11-16) 11 And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ, 13 until we all attain to the oneness of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown man, attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ. 14 So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes. 15 But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ. 16 From him all the body is harmoniously joined together and made to cooperate through every joint that gives what is needed. When each respective member functions properly, this contributes to the growth of the body as it builds itself up in love.
Just a last thought, noting that much of what was true about elders is also true of ministerial servants.
(1 Timothy 3:8-10) 8 Ministerial servants should likewise be serious, not double-tongued, not indulging in a lot of wine, not greedy of dishonest gain, 9 holding the sacred secret of the faith with a clean conscience. 10 Also, let these be tested as to fitness first; then let them serve as ministers, as they are free from accusation.
 
This part is my own opinion, but I think we have to be judicious when it comes to confessing articles of faith, when that faith might be considered sin. For example what if you believed, five years ago, that "types and antitiypes" should not be taught as doctrines unless the Bible specifically and explicitly tells us to do this? Five years ago, this was apostasy, because it literally involved the rejection of hundreds of doctrines unique to Jehovah's Witnesses. Note:
*** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
If one believed this in 1914, they would have had to wait for 100 years until this teaching was finally dropped, and it no longer constituted apostasy to reject it. (It was finally dropped in 2014.) But the article goes on to include several specific doctrines considered to be of prime importance:
What do such beliefs include?
. . . That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence. . . .
If we do not confess this particular belief as an article of faith, should this be confessed to the elders? YES! Absolutely. But we can take it to the elders in the overall world-wide congregation, not the specific elders from our local congregation, and even potentially to the Governing Body, by sending it as correspondence through the appropriate Watch Tower Society channels. Why? Because individual congregation elders will respond differently. Some will disfellowship, some will say to keep quiet about it and wait on the organization. Some might begin questioning themselves. This might begin to cause divisions in the congregation. The most consistent answers will be sent from the Society headquarters, where the ins and outs of this topic are fairly well-known by many of those who handle correspondence.
 
 
 

No, not somewhere else. I have made a personal judgement indeed in accepting that Jehovah through Christ has appointed the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses to direct an operation to "preach the good news of the kingdom", particularly with reference to it's heavenly establishment in 1914. Also, that in view of this, that same group fits the description of a "faithful and discreet slave" as scripturally described. In that capacity, they direct a program to provide information and encouragement (feeding) worldwide to those who accept this message.
What I do not question is Jehovah's personal judgement through Christ in making that selection, regardless of the many criticisms submitted by those who oppose this understanding, based on their disagreement with the qualifications of that group. In other words, I do not subject what I consider to be the judgement of Jehovah to some sort of "judicial review" by a human tribunal. Hope that clarifies?
Actually, whilst the question is great, the conclusion here does not make sense to me. There are many religions who do not use God's Word as a constitutional element at all, and a good many others, whilst claiming a Biblical connection, have no desire or intention to conform to "the pattern of healthful words" in a moral or theological sense both now or in the future. 
Ps 119:165  "Abundant peace belongs to those who love your law; Nothing can make them stumble."
Didn't we already established that point in your second quote??
Who knows indeed. I mean, the points and questions you raised in this thread alone have certainly reinforced my conviction in the reality of Gods heavenly kingdom and it's establishment in the heavens in 1914 CE (as we currently count time). Was that your intention behind the facade?
 
 

I still do not believe humans are in a position review the judgements Jehovah makes. One thing that is clear is that these judgments are not based on limited human capacity..
For me this will always be a question for the present and not the past in view of the principle at Proverbs 4:18. If understandings need correction, Jehovah will provide it for His servants as He did with Apollos (Acts 18:26). What is important is how we respond to His correction and enlightenment, not that we get everything right. Apollos was "aglow with the spirit" despite teaching inaccurately.

This  a logical view, but unfortunately is taken from a human standpoint with all the limitations that imposes so, really, what would be accomplished?.
It is easy to look at past teachings now. For example, I think today only a small minority would look at the pyramidology persuasion and view it as anything other than "nonsensical gibberish",  a conclusion which Jehovah's Witnesses came to themselves. However, there are also those who look at our teachings on the human soul, hellfire, Trinity, evolution, and such like and view them similarly.
I personally don't feel qualified to review Jehovah or Jesus's judgement processes. I don't think I am party to all the facts of the matter and even if I was, to weigh and test those facts against a criteria that I am also not party to is, frankly, way above my pay grade.
There is also the business of what it is that Jehovah evaluates. The statements at 2 Chr. 16:9 "For the eyes of Jehovah are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him", and Pro. 21:2 "All of a man’s ways seem right to him, But Jehovah examines the hearts" take the business of judgement into a completely different arena, way out of human experience or capability.
Paul got it right about Jehovah's judgements at Ro 11:33 "O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing out his ways are!" and I am quite happy to accept them on that basis.

Unwarranted acts often produce consequences that can't be fixed satisfactorily in this system. However, both sides can be humble and come to an agreement. Love conquer all things.

Those who no longer want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses are free to leave, any time. They will not, and never have been shunned. Jehovah's Witnesses who practice sin, and are not repentant, or those who deliberately and maliciously disrupt the peace of the congregation will be disfellowshipped and as such will be shunned by the members of the congregation. Disfellowshipping does not have to be a permanent status.Those who show a repentant attitude and "works" of repentance will be welcomed back. The fact that this lady had been disfellowshipped for 20 years, from what I understand, means she never sought reistatement during those 20 years (!) I ask myself why?? "especially that she truly believed in God and that the organization (JW) is his tool".