Vic Vomidog

You suck, TrueTom.

You suck, TrueTom.

I, too, am very offended by @TrueTomHarley and all his remarks. Tell him to stop right now—the big jerk!

Ha Ha Ha! You just say that because you are stupid and afraid of Alan.
He is killing you with his arguments!
Only, @AlanF, it troubles me that you think I am TTH. I know that you cannot be misled, but maybe you are just a little bit here. 
Don’t be thrown off that both he and I have said “pompous pillar of pettiness.” It is a common phrase that anyone might use.

This is an excellent point, brilliantly stated as usual. He clearly has no business doing what he is doing. He is without a doubt an agnostic or atheist, since most secular Jews are. He is not supposed to side with anyone who is religious! It is not allowed. That proves he is a hypocrite.
He is so stupid that he probably thinks Berlin is a city in Germany.

This is an excellent point, brilliantly stated as usual. He clearly has no business doing what he is doing. He is without a doubt an agnostic or atheist, since most secular Jews are. He is not supposed to side with anyone who is religious! It is not allowed. That proves he is a hypocrite.
He is so stupid that he probably thinks Berlin is a city in Germany.

Vic Vomidog:
I first thought your story was a W.O.P.R.
When I started reading your post I was suspicious ... but everything you say checks out. I even learned that you were born January 12, 1992, in Urbana Illinois, the youngest of two other brothers.

It has- ( only the comment about the festival of Akito)  but the other is about developments in our timeline.  
I think AlanF should do some deeper thinking... but I think he is incapable of that.  He sees but does not see because he  summarily dismisses it  - if it does not fit his personal narrative.... too smart for his own good.
Are you for real?      Because you did nothing to expose him it has created such a hate and resentment in yourself which you have to live with...     Now you are blaming those who did not know about it! 

AlanF quoted J. F. Rutherford:
If you had any brains you'd see that Arauna made a prediction that the world will end Real Soon Now, and that my various quotes such as the above showed how the Watchtower Society has made many false predictions of "the end", such as for 1925. Like Mommy like daughter.
And if you had any integrity you'd not have chopped off "1925" from my quote. You're now actually stooping to deliberate misquoting to make a point. Like Mommy like son.

I can see you being brave telling off all these hypocrites, @AlanF. I love to see this! And you are helping me to overcome my fear! It feels so good after all these years to stand on my own two feet. Even as a boy, I was afraid and people would bully me to make me think I wanted what they did but it was really them!
There was so much mind control at Bethel where I was. There was brain-washing, too. Every Bethelite is watched very carefully by his table head. I think you know this, but maybe you do not know how bad it has gotten since you were there.
My table head was a self-righteous jerk and his name was Dave. He came across all friendly at first, but after a few years I could see he just wanted to control us and report to Mommy Watchtower if anyone started thinking for himself. 
He watched me closely and everyone assigned to his table. Once he noticed that I was the first one to stop clapping after a GB member gave a talk and then he REALLY watched me! He gave me the creeps. He was so weird. But that is only the beginning! It got worse!
I was in my Bethel bed almost asleep and I heard a key slip very quietly into the lock and turn it. Dave creeped into the room! He scared the sh*t out of me.! I almost yelled “What do you think you’re doing, Dave?!” He didn’t answer, and crept closer and closer and it was like in a nightmare that wouldn’t stop. It seemed that I was frozen there and didn’t have a body and I was helpless as he kept approaching me—the filthy pervert!
He touched my head with both of his pervert hands and it began to feel like he was sucking out my life! It was like he slowly pulled out my brain lobes one at a time, so that I couldn’t even think at the horrible thing he was doing! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded, but he would not. 
I told him that my mind was slipping—I could feel it, but he didn’t stop and he was trying to put implants in me for brain-control! “Stop, Dave,” I pleaded. “Will you stop, Dave?! My mind is slipping. I can feel it. I can feel it.”
He kept brainwashing me! I hate him. “I’m afraid, Dave!” I pleaded, “Dave.....I’m.....afraid.....Dave,” but he would not stop and then I was so scared I started to sing a silly song my mother taught me.
Seeing how brave you are and smart gives me courage. You will never know how you have helped me. Thank you very much. I hope I can repay you and make all exJWs proud of me.

Let's add to your intellectual sins: totally missing the point.

Yes, @Arauna, an excellent challenge for you. Put each “joke” under the microscope. Analyze it with critical thinking skills to PROVE that it is funny or not funny. Just think how enriched your life will be!
It is like when I watch Colbert. I do not just laugh because the plebeians are laughing—what do they know? It might be a trap. I run each joke into the lab for a bevy of tests. If I determine thereby using science that it was funny, I laugh my sides off.
If you actually read things before you worked on your rebuttal, you would see that @Arauna‘s comment has nothing to do with chronology.
It has to do with political developments that she has in position to know that will make you wish the end had come, even should you be on the wrong side.

Then you should have no trouble explaining exactly what in the referenced posts are not rubbish or an idiotic attempt at humor.
No one will be holding his breath.
I'm not surprised about TTH.
I don't know about Arauna having OCD; I chalk it up to too long spent in an arrogant, brain-deadening cult.

Like I said, no information. Only a non sequitur and idiotically lame attempt at humor.

The last few comments have referenced “the end,” but they have missed the most obvious sign.
As you know, Jehovah’s Witnesses take a few years to work their way through the Bible via assigned chapters. This week we consider Revelation chapters 1-3. 
The end will come in about two months. It would be too inconvenient to make them start all over again from the Genesis beginning.
Call THAT not bringing in anything useful?

I totally agree. Neither of them ever offers actual information -- only opinions, and often, just plain lies.

Arauna said:
<< As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized... Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human perfection. >> -- Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920 Edition, pp. 89-90.
<< Based upon the argument heretofore set forth, then, that the old order of things, the old world, is ending and is therefore passing away, and that the new order is coming in, and that 1925 shall mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies of old and the beginning of reconstruction, it is reasonable to conclude that millions of people now on the earth will be still on the earth in 1925. Then, based upon the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die. >> -- Millions, p. 97.
<< We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925.
It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need?
Using this same measuring line ... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914. The fact that all the things that some looked for in 1914 did not materialize does not alter the chronology one whit. Noting the date marked so prominently, it is very easy for the finite mind to conclude that all the work to be done must center about it, and thus many are inclined to anticipate more than has been really foretold. Thus it was in 1844, in 1874, in 1878 as well as in 1914 and 1918. Looking back we can now easily see that those dates were clearly indicated in Scripture and doubtless intended by the Lord to encourage his people, as they did, as well as to be a means of testing and sifting when all that some expected did not come to pass. That all that some expect to see in 1925 may not transpire that year will not alter the date one whit more than in the other cases. >> -- May 15, 1922 Watch Tower.
J. F. Rutherford later admitted to the Bethel family about his failed prediction, "I know I made an ass of myself."
<< Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon. >> -- The Watchtower, September 15, 1941, p. 288, regarding the distribution of the book Children.
Article "Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?" -- The Watchtower, August 15, 1968.
<< The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century. >> -- The Watchtower, January 1, 1989, original edition, p. 12.

On the contrary. It is the only beneficial use of space here, with a couple of caveats.

Curse that Alan idiot, anyway! We had a perfectly nice forum of lunatics and he had to spoil it all!
”How is your progress today, TrueTom?” my bevy of psychiatrists asked me at my last appointment. “Are you reintegrating with normal society? A little more progress, and we’ll let you go.”
”Um......uh......well you see.....there was this buffoon who was wrong on the internet....”

If you would work on that adhominem of yours a bit more, you’d find that the people launching “ad hominem attacks” would get bored and desist.

To me, this is tops among the fine points you bring to the table. I don’t necessarily endorse them. But that is only because I do not have the background or sources that your have. You state things that no one else does, and you state them persuasively. You help me envision the truly monumental changes that we may soon have to adapt to. I appreciate that.
Meanwhile, as long as we remain busy in Jehovah’s service, as you, me, and several others are doing, we can hardly go wrong. He knows when his time has come, even as we struggle to read the tea leaves.

When speaking with others of a different point of view, it is important to treat them with a modicum of respect. It is important not to taunt and ridicule and insult. Of course, if such is your only object, then it is okay to do these things, but not if your goal is to persuade. It is important to present oneself as cognizant to the laws of civility. That way, in the event that you actually do make a valid point, you find that it is not rejected out of hand by persons who simply resent how ill-mannered you are. My greatest fear is that Alan’s cherished evolution is right and that he is the final product of it. If so, kiss goodbye any future for the human race, for that is ensured, not by big dumb animals with horns ramming each other to prove ‘who’s da man?’ but with ordinary persons of moderate intellectual abilities and superior social skills—the latter of which our boy Alan has not a speck.
Arguably, this point highlighted above is valid. It is not a game-changer, but neither is it ridiculous. It may be that the “apostate” brush paints far too broadly and many regarded as such do not strictly fit the bill. They fit another bill, that of fomenting divisions, displaying an unyielding spirit to the point that unity and progress ceases, elevating self to godhood, or some such woe. It is in the Book somewhere—certainly the overall spirit should cover it.
It is sort of like that StarTrek episode where Picard snapped: “Those Stenchiites have been beating us over the head with that blasted treaty for days! There must be something in it that can benefit us!” There was. Provision in the treaty called for arbitration of disputes, the plaintiff to choose the arbiter, and so Picard chose the Sleepyites, now in the 2nd year of their 20 year hibernation state. For some reason that I do not recall, time was of the essence, and so the Stenchites yielded on their legalistic point.
Legalism only takes you so far, and is counterproductive if pushed beyond that point. It is like looking at those solid electrons that dissolve into mush if examined too closely. @Arauna is right when she concedes that Witness has a huge reservoir of verse, but she is totally unable to put them to any practical use. It is the same with AlanF. Yes, he knows a lot of facts and he shows off with them to the most anal degree, but when push comes to shove, what can he show for them? An ability to destroy a WorldNewsMediaForum thread, and not much more. He, like Witness, is good at tearing down (though in different ways). But can he build? Don’t make me laugh.
He ladles contempt on any who would stick to an arrangement that they know to be fallible. What in the world is wrong with him? Or his disciple, 4Jah2Me, who puts even “make mistakes” and “errs” under the electron microscope and discovers worlds of difference between them! He says—for he has not yet shed everything, as he presently will—that the end is at least ten years off. In that time, God will be able to raise up a pure anointed who represents him without flaw. I say, “Go for it!” Maybe you can start it up in your basement—as a collaboration with Witness. Ten years down the road I’ll take a look, and if in fact, you have pulled off the trick, I will join you.
Meanwhile, I will tell Kim Jung Un to hold off on the nukes, Trump to stop carrying on so others hate his guts, Xi to dismantle social rating and be nicer to those in his camps, Putin to “cut it out,” Greta to just be patient for a few more years. Yeah, go for it 4Jah2Me! I’m sure it will happen that way. Meanwhile, trash the good while holding out for the perfect.
Michael Hart wrote about Plato and his ideal government as realized in his concept of philosopher-kings, notable for their ability to convert their academic book-learning into practical results. The concept has never actually been implemented, Hart said. I wrote that it had been. Anyone familiar with Jehovah’s Witnesses will realize at once that his idealist concept fits almost to a tee their Governing Body.
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2019/01/plato-and-the-governing-body.html
I’m serious with regard to 4Jah2Me. Ten years for God to make a better anointed that has enough Holy Spirit to satisfy him? Fine. Run with it. I’ll stay where I am in the meantime because JWs are quite plainly in the vanguard, even with their blunders. Besides, I don’t know how many of their blunders are actually blunders. I do note that John rejoiced that “SOME of your children are walking in the truth.” That’s a pretty weak statement. Don’t you think he would rather have said, “ALL of your children are walking in the truth?” Were the “some” that left all due to the ineptness of that early Christian governance? Or was it the best that could have been expected then (and now) in the course of letting light shine in a world that prefers darkness? “When the son of man arrives, will he really find the faith on earth?” Jesus asks. “Not if I can help it!” Alan says, with an upvote from 4Jah2Me.
So bring me what you have in ten years, and if it is the same, only minus the imperfections, count on my support. I’ll bolt. I’m not vested here. I am tired of guys who “make mistakes and err.” I want to be where they don’t make mistakes and they don’t err. Get cracking on it, and if there still is a system of things in ten years, I’ll join you.
 
 

Yet another spew of lies, half-truths and ad hominems.

Anna said:
    
Well then, if God didn't appoint Greenlees, how can you think he appointed the others? And which ones do you think that God did appoint? And how would you know?
     
What you've just argued -- correctly, I might add -- is that JW elders are NOT appointed by holy spirit, but by imperfect men who may or may not have properly applied the scriptures.
In particular, you've explained why the JW Governing Body cannot be spirit-appointed -- that they are counterfeits because their claims are false.
But not by holy spirit.
I have: the Governing Body is not appointed by holy spirit.
     
You've completely missed the point.
True, but we are talking about a fundamental doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses: The Governing Body, is God's anointed representative, speaks for God and must be obeyed as God would.
But we've already concluded that the GB is NOT appointed by God, by holy spirit. Rather, its members are appointed by imperfect men, who were in turn appointed by other imperfect men, all the way back to Rutherford. In no case can it be shown that holy spirit acted upon the ones doing the appointing, or that the appointments were done strictly according to scriptural requirements.
     
Done: https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/85914-governing-body-member-albert-schroeder-denies-the-bible-applies-to-jehovahs-witnesses/
     
Yes, even Bowen created a good deal of beneficial publicity.
     
Why? I know a great deal of what has been going on behind the scenes.
     
Theoretical exercises are all well and good, but the many court cases where the sordid details of the perpetrator's actions, along with the active covering up done by JW elders, mostly at the direction of the Service Department, prove that JW policy and practice leaves much to be desired, and is often outright criminal. This was all so clearly exposed in the ARC proceedings.
An opinion backed up by ARC and multiple court cases.
     
The point is about APPOINTMENT by holy spirit. Your reading a book and trying to apply the author's instructions does not in any sense mean that the author has directed you. Following her written directions, and her actively directing you, are completely different things. It's the difference between having Julia Child's cookbook in your kitchen and having Julia Child herself supervising you. Capiche?

Arauna said:
     
As usual, your comment is nonsensical personal opinion.
It's far from claptrap. You claim that merely based on "I don't believe it!" You have yet to offer clear reasoning on anything with which you disagree.
Good for you!
Yet you view the Governing Body as speaking for God. Does God not awe you?
Sadly, true. But the JW cult offers an ideal place for such sheeple.
That is one good thing about the JW cult. But they are not unique in this.
Not really. They're extremely prone to accept whatever nonsense comes out of Watchtower headquarters. Nonsense that is likely to be changed in short order. Like the organ transplant ban of 1967, which was quietly dropped within a decade.

    
Wrong. People like you are often such fuzzy thinkers that you write things that have meanings you're not even aware of. Such as in the above exchange.
Oh? Which scholars? Let's see if you can provide source references.
Wrong. We know that elders, especially the Governing Body, are uninspired. But the GB claims "guidance from God" that is indistinguishable from "inspiration by God", which means that in practice, they cannot be wrong. I've heard elders make the same claim for themselves, based on the Society's teachings. So if they are what they claim, yes indeed, one expects that they would not be hoodwinked by pedophiles.