PeterR

So if this is the basis for your belief, then probably what you'll want to do is first of all find out which bible book your foundational scripture is in. (It's Exodus by the way.)
 
Ex 1:6 - Eventually Joseph died, and also all his brothers and all that generation.
 
It's not a complicated scripture.
Let me ask you this. If you die in 2017 and all your brothers and all your generation also die at some point, what does "generation" mean if you don't impose any weirdness on the text? Do your precise birth and death times change the fundamental meaning of the word generation?
Of course there are overlaps in a "generation". The only possible way for there not to be overlaps would be for each generation to have a batch of children be born at the same minute of a certain year, and die at a simultanous minute of a later year.
But does your grandfather suddenly become part of your generation just because your life overlapped with him? Does that overlap of a few years between you and your brothers give latitude to distort the language to allow for President Kennedy to be of your generation even if your life overlapped with him?
 
 
 
 

Wow. Wow. Wow Wow. Wow.
And wow.
Where did you hear this?
 
- Is 1914 enthronement a doctrine or an opinion?
- Is 1919 appoint of a FDS a doctrine or an opinion?
 
Depending on how you answer, could you please explain the distinction between JW "doctrines" and "opinions".
If you can do that I will return the favor by explaining it back to you thereafter, and also explaining why I feel it is so.
 

Okay Tom. Let's test that.
At the end of 1968 this brother would have been studying the following Watchtower in the congregation:
*** w68 8/15 p. 494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
 
I encourage you to examine it for yourself as if you were this brother at that time, and then see if you can sustain your response. There are too many highlights to choose from, but the one I was referring to in particular was this one:
 
*** w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end.
 
The entire article was 37 paragraphs of building anticipation for 1975.
Please bear in mind that this was not "an opinion piece". This was a study article which all were expected to learn from and apply. So to say in this assembly video that this brother felt forewarned by what he had learned at the meetings is .... ?
Ah, now you may get picky and say that this was a few years before 1975 and maybe the fervor in print had cooled off by then. In that case please show me the mitigating texts that this brother was supposed to have drawn from. In fact the KM was praising those who sold houses and left jobs right up to the year itself. And this brother says "some even went so far as to sell homes and give up jobs ...". Hmmmm.
I know an elder who cuts out significant soundbites from study articles and sticks it on his wall as a reminder of "current truth". They will stay there for as long as it takes unless that truth is changed. So if this brother in the video had treated the Watchtower as seriously (and most did), then he would not have been "ignoring prevailing opinion at the time" as you suggest, but rather he would have been ignoring food from the FDS.
If you don't care to look up the article and other relevant material in print at the time then I would be happy to supply more quotations. But I imagine that will suffice to at least have you reconsider your assertion that what I wrote "is absolutely incorrect".
 
 
 
 
 
 
I personally
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Indeed, and I think I've acknowledged that.
 
OK. But now he's saying how he would apply the letter of the law, rather than what's possible according to the laws and guidelines.
I could give you references to the ks book, letters to BoE and CO's, notes/recordings from elder school, all of which you could take back to your elder and ask him about.
I won't do it of course. I do not have any motivation to convince you that would prompt me to cross that line. And I suspect even if you saw the material with your own eyes you would simply say it was all hypothetical. But that would be to miss the point that measures are in place to enforce belief in this, or any other doctrine, if in someone's opinion the circumstances warrant it.
 
And I know plenty of other people who are known to have quietly voiced that they don't accept the teaching, and they remain in good standing. I also know others who have paid a price for voicing a difference. As your elder says "it depends". Now he probably means it depends on what other factors there are in the case of the person, but it also depends on the elders themselves. Especially if a particular type of CO gets involved they have the latitude to DF someone for not believing in any unique teaching of JWs.  
 
I agree that there is no scriptural basis for it.
 
Please don't get me started on this or the librarian will fork me off into another new topic. I'll just say in passing though that they are effectively putting up someone as a good example because he was ignoring what was in Watchtower print at the time in favor of what he understood from the Bible. When someone does that today guess what s/he gets labelled as.
Before you say it wasn't in print, have you never seen the quote "Now is not the time to be toying with Jesus' words about the day or the hour ..."?
 
 
There is a lot of truth to that. But what you may not be factoring in is that it takes two to tango. The "unrest" that results can very much depend on the listener rather than the speaker. You may have one congregation which is laid back enough to see this for what it is, and do nothing. But you may have another with some highly strung people who react very quickly to hearing anything that doesn't sound 100% "loyal" to them. And thus the wheels can be put in motion for some serious damage.
 
 
 

In my opinion and experience there is an element of this going on. I don't believe it's motivated by corporate greed though. There are different motivators at work. If you want to start to understand what they are you can look at a local level and work up from there.
There are many good brothers and sisters who do good deeds for no personal advancement. This is true of many people outside of the organization also (it would be wrong/silly to suggest otherwise), but most of us are primarily focused on what happens inside. 
At the same time there is a hierarchy. Technically nobody is "greater", but it's implicitly acknowledged that some "privileges" are greater than others. (All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. - Animal Farm)
In recent years the ones being promoted up that hierarchy tend to be younger than they were a decade or two ago. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but most people who see what's going on from inside would say that loyalty is being valued over experience. If anyone cares to argue with that then please go ahead. Loyalty is a valuable quality when applied correctly and directed to the right party. Loyalty to Jehovah God and his Son is essential. But if the organization becomes interchangeably used with Jehovah, with no practical distinction then there is room for loyalty to become abused by those in authority.
When organization becomes the thing that must be preserved at all costs, and individuals are expendable, bad things happen. The word "organization" never occurs in God's Word, and Jesus always stressed the value of individuals. That's not to say that being organized is a bad thing, but not if "unity" and "organization" trump "love".
By all means I would prefer to support my point of view with specific examples. I could do that, but I won't in a public forum.
It should not be necessary though. Those in the hierarchy know the facts even though they may not care to confront them. And for sure if things are going without problem in your corner of the world then I am happy for you. The question is whether the system itself is geared to serve the needs of an organization when it comes to the crunch, or to help individuals.
Elders - what is the order of priority you have been given at school - 1) Jehovah's name, 2) the congregation, and 3) the individual.
Anyone care to argue?
In practice #1 & #2 actually becomes "the organization" and #3 remains as "the individual".
And the scriptural support for this is .... ? See the problem?
(I already know that certain people will not see a problem)
 

You would be asking the wrong question Anna.
You need to ask him whether someone could be disfellowshipped for NOT believing it after baptism.
If he says no, he is either misinformed, forgetful, or lying.
Now I grant you, not every elder will apply the letter of the law (although in a JC it's more likely because of the group dynamics). But that there are procedures in place to allow for DF'ing someone who refuses to believe in particular teachings is very real.
Let me ask you Anna - if I could prove beyond doubt that this was true would you accept it, or would you continue to make light of it?
If you are determined to see only what you want to see I have no agenda to change that. But I can assure you that I do not speak from a position of ignorance or partial information in this regard.

I openly admit that I have no idea what you are now saying, nor why you are saying it.
I'm not sure you do either.
TrueTomHarley - do you value honesty at all? Is there a basis for a conversation here, or when confronted with reality is pulling a pin on a confusion grenade the only option for you? If so I have to say that it was pretty effective.
In the meanwhile if anyone else has followed the exchange, and would like to make a reasoned comment on the matter, then I'd love to inhale a small whiff of sanity.

In my opinion and experience there is an element of this going on. I don't believe it's motivated by corporate greed though. There are different motivators at work. If you want to start to understand what they are you can look at a local level and work up from there.
There are many good brothers and sisters who do good deeds for no personal advancement. This is true of many people outside of the organization also (it would be wrong/silly to suggest otherwise), but most of us are primarily focused on what happens inside. 
At the same time there is a hierarchy. Technically nobody is "greater", but it's implicitly acknowledged that some "privileges" are greater than others. (All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. - Animal Farm)
In recent years the ones being promoted up that hierarchy tend to be younger than they were a decade or two ago. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but most people who see what's going on from inside would say that loyalty is being valued over experience. If anyone cares to argue with that then please go ahead. Loyalty is a valuable quality when applied correctly and directed to the right party. Loyalty to Jehovah God and his Son is essential. But if the organization becomes interchangeably used with Jehovah, with no practical distinction then there is room for loyalty to become abused by those in authority.
When organization becomes the thing that must be preserved at all costs, and individuals are expendable, bad things happen. The word "organization" never occurs in God's Word, and Jesus always stressed the value of individuals. That's not to say that being organized is a bad thing, but not if "unity" and "organization" trump "love".
By all means I would prefer to support my point of view with specific examples. I could do that, but I won't in a public forum.
It should not be necessary though. Those in the hierarchy know the facts even though they may not care to confront them. And for sure if things are going without problem in your corner of the world then I am happy for you. The question is whether the system itself is geared to serve the needs of an organization when it comes to the crunch, or to help individuals.
Elders - what is the order of priority you have been given at school - 1) Jehovah's name, 2) the congregation, and 3) the individual.
Anyone care to argue?
In practice #1 & #2 actually becomes "the organization" and #3 remains as "the individual".
And the scriptural support for this is .... ? See the problem?
(I already know that certain people will not see a problem)
 

You would be asking the wrong question Anna.
You need to ask him whether someone could be disfellowshipped for NOT believing it after baptism.
If he says no, he is either misinformed, forgetful, or lying.
Now I grant you, not every elder will apply the letter of the law (although in a JC it's more likely because of the group dynamics). But that there are procedures in place to allow for DF'ing someone who refuses to believe in particular teachings is very real.
Let me ask you Anna - if I could prove beyond doubt that this was true would you accept it, or would you continue to make light of it?
If you are determined to see only what you want to see I have no agenda to change that. But I can assure you that I do not speak from a position of ignorance or partial information in this regard.

There you go. To you it seems that if it isn't measurable it doesn't happen. If reporting hours is all you've ever known then I can see why you might not be able to get past that.
Philip was known as "the evangelizer". Do you think for a moment it was because he accepted it as a title for doing in excess of x number of hours preaching per month? Or do you think that people simply knew him as a man who naturally preached the Gospel at every opportunity.
The latter portion of Deut 6:7 is often tied to talking about your love for Jehovah to your kids. And given the opening that would obviously be true. But when I read it the passage says 1) inculcate your love for God in your children and 2) speak about them always - to anyone, always (including incidentally yourself in meditation).
Mal 3:16 talks of those who would naturally talk about spiritual things and share faith as part of any conversation.
I actually find it a little shocking that people would so clearly reveal that they don't feel any of this would be noticed by others unless a number of "service hours" was turned in every month.
 
Well yeah. I hadn't even considered that as part of this conversation. But if it even puts a some people under pressure some of the time, such that it could tempt them into any form of dishonesty, then there's another reason why Jesus might have warned against it.
I can perfectly see the benefit of setting personal goals. That's not what's being discussed here. They can remain personal and there is no conflict with any scriptural injunction.
 
I'm sorry but I don't buy that. I do have some specific experience into how this process works. Even before everything went electronic, planning for literature production was always done through the movement of literature inventory - and advance requests made for campaigns - at a congregation level. Collecting a report of member's individual hours of service performed in the previous month has no value in this regard.
 
So what would we lose that would apply from that verse? We couldn't boast about total number of hours in any given country. Does anyone actually bring that out when reviewing the annual report anyway? We just wouldn't be able to boast about 1 billion hours (or whatever it is) globally.
But isn't the real source of encouragement 1) overall growth and 2) personal experiences. Growth is pretty well measured by baptisms (minus deaths and disfellowshippings). This would be unaffected. The overall number of JWs in any given country and worldwide would still be available. I can see an argument for keeping a tally of studies too. That's encouraging. But that's not what we're talking about here which is individuals reporting how much time they spent publicly representing the organization.
 
Well the fulfillment of the Psalm and the verse in Matthew will be evident regardless. As far as the James scripture I don't see the relevance unless you're somehow reading into it that faith and works would only be evident through numbers.
 

I couldn't know what motivations  @PeterR or you or anyone else might have. But I can say that what I said is (to me) merely a truism about legalism, and has nothing to do with taking it easy as you state. Also, I don't recommend that people stop reporting the types of service that help others prepare useful and appropriate publications, convention material, encouragement from circuit overseers, talks about local needs, etc. If you think you'll need 100 magazines next month in service, you should order 100 magazines; if you think you will need 10, order 10. Even in the days when we paid directly in advance for all the publications, I'd still see some Witnesses with rooms stacked with unused magazines and books. The specific need for printed material is no longer a big factor, as we are encouraged to make more use of electronic formats. (In some countries, more than others.)
Obviously, we could also take it too far and forbid the reporting of our service to others, too, but this could end up being just another form of legalism. Our motivation for reporting our time and experiences might be purely meant as an encouragement for others who have trouble finding the time, or our motivation for reporting could be out of the pure joy of reporting on experiences in our ministry that make our sacrifice of time worthwhile. (Remember the joy that Jesus expressed when the 70 evangelizers returned to tell about what kinds of experiences they had just had. Giving a good report can be a matter of encouragement or just a matter of the mouth speaking out of the "abundance of the heart" -- not just preaching, but telling fellow Christians about our experiences in preaching.)
However, the methods by which a "placement" or even a "return visit" can be counted have now made some of these reports mean less because people would be comparing Apple iPads to oranges. The differences in what some elders or family heads might count as a "Bible Study" might also be quite different from what the average pioneer will count. TTH is right that these numbers are not used in such a way that each congregation member knows who is more active than others, except by actual observation while working with others in the ministry, and by a couple of different level pioneer titles. Neither are they used at levels higher than a circuit overseer, in any form other than the aggregate. Other forms of "full-time" service might come with little or no field service, although there is overlap in the use of the "title." My brother, for example, was on a project at Bethel where Brother Wisegarver asked him if he could work 6 days a week for at least 4 months, and skip all his meetings except Sunday. I know several elders whose work on regional building committees kept them from almost anything else for several months at a time, and some have preferred it that way.
My point is that the Law included measurements and even certain threshold requirements to meet the Law correctly. We SHOULD be working purely from proper motivation, but this will not be true of everyone. This is why the Law was necessary as a tutor. But our ministry that is pure from the standpoint of 'our God and Father' MUST include a lot of ministry that is not currently counted as "sacred" service, even if Jesus counts it as "sacred" service. (Looking after orphans and widows, for example.) I do think that if proper motivation is what is explained and encouraged at all meetings, then most of us would rebalance our ministries toward the other forms of service that Jesus counts as sacred. But we would also be looking for more opportunities to buy out more effective time in all our ministries, making time count rather than looking for ways to count time.
My comments about the legalism behind the reports and titles might have sounded discouraging, but it's not so that anyone would do less, or lose their motivation. It's so that whatever we do is a JOY because of the motivation. The points about legalism include the confusion that most immature Christians have about being rewarded for "works." These legalistic ideas are really more obvious when we look at the history of the ways quotas and counting time and placements has worked since Rutherford's time. A quick reading of old Bulletins, Informants, Messengers, Kingdom Ministrys, Convention reports, etc., will make it clear what I mean by legalism in the sense that the apostle Paul spoke out so strongly against. I won't try to prove it here.
But I would agree that we have also moved toward a more sensible and balanced view of time to remove the common "burdensome" nature of counting time and placements.

There you go. To you it seems that if it isn't measurable it doesn't happen. If reporting hours is all you've ever known then I can see why you might not be able to get past that.
Philip was known as "the evangelizer". Do you think for a moment it was because he accepted it as a title for doing in excess of x number of hours preaching per month? Or do you think that people simply knew him as a man who naturally preached the Gospel at every opportunity.
The latter portion of Deut 6:7 is often tied to talking about your love for Jehovah to your kids. And given the opening that would obviously be true. But when I read it the passage says 1) inculcate your love for God in your children and 2) speak about them always - to anyone, always (including incidentally yourself in meditation).
Mal 3:16 talks of those who would naturally talk about spiritual things and share faith as part of any conversation.
I actually find it a little shocking that people would so clearly reveal that they don't feel any of this would be noticed by others unless a number of "service hours" was turned in every month.
 
Well yeah. I hadn't even considered that as part of this conversation. But if it even puts a some people under pressure some of the time, such that it could tempt them into any form of dishonesty, then there's another reason why Jesus might have warned against it.
I can perfectly see the benefit of setting personal goals. That's not what's being discussed here. They can remain personal and there is no conflict with any scriptural injunction.
 
I'm sorry but I don't buy that. I do have some specific experience into how this process works. Even before everything went electronic, planning for literature production was always done through the movement of literature inventory - and advance requests made for campaigns - at a congregation level. Collecting a report of member's individual hours of service performed in the previous month has no value in this regard.
 
So what would we lose that would apply from that verse? We couldn't boast about total number of hours in any given country. Does anyone actually bring that out when reviewing the annual report anyway? We just wouldn't be able to boast about 1 billion hours (or whatever it is) globally.
But isn't the real source of encouragement 1) overall growth and 2) personal experiences. Growth is pretty well measured by baptisms (minus deaths and disfellowshippings). This would be unaffected. The overall number of JWs in any given country and worldwide would still be available. I can see an argument for keeping a tally of studies too. That's encouraging. But that's not what we're talking about here which is individuals reporting how much time they spent publicly representing the organization.
 
Well the fulfillment of the Psalm and the verse in Matthew will be evident regardless. As far as the James scripture I don't see the relevance unless you're somehow reading into it that faith and works would only be evident through numbers.
 

To Anna & others who are suggesting that submitting a report of hours is at least one way to measure spiritual heath ...
Here's another method. Stop reporting hours and stop accepting titles for your works, and then see what you are motivated to do. That would arguably be a truer test of spiritual health.
I have personally seen this go both ways. I've seen people who stop reporting, and end up increasing their Christian activity, including preaching and general Christian acts of kindness. And others who stop reporting and well ... just stop.
This argument that metrics help everyone know where they are on the spiritual map is quite misguided IMO. Think about anyone you know in the congregation. Would you really know less about their spiritual condition if you didn't know how a precise number of "field service hours" they were doing?
 

Sure. If you think true Christianity is measured like blood pressure then I have no wish to argue with you. I believe JW's are fairly unique among Christian denominations in this regard. Perhaps Jesus' direction in Matt 6:3 doesn't actually apply to us, and perhaps also the Bible just omitted the need to measure people by "hours of work" by accident.
If you truly believe that then I don't wish to dispute with you. Some people are suggesting that it's the right way to handle things, and I'm simply pointing out the mindset and counter-productive fruits that can result by being constantly oriented in this way.
Personally I don't feel that any scriptural instruction is for no reason, but I appreciate that others rationalize differently.

I do. And thanks for your comments JWI. Sometimes it's easy to feel you're going nuts when you are reading clear admonitions in the Bible, and you've got so many people implying that we're just exempt from certain passages without ever explaining why.

FWIW, I think that you made your point very well, and the fact that you got people to defend a parallel between the way we measure spiritual health with the way we measure physical health made your point even stronger. At least to those who understand that you are coming at this from the viewpoint of first-century Christians.
I heard two two Circuit Overseers (one was a "retired" CO) laughing about how the Apostle Paul would have probably thrown a fit if he saw how much emphasis was put on measuring numbers. It was their opinion that this is exactly what legalism was all about: measures vs. motivation. And it's not just Matthew 6:3, of course. It's the context of the entire "Sermon on the Mount" where it comes from.
(Matthew 6:1, 2) . . .“Take care not to practice your righteousness in front of men to be noticed by them; otherwise you will have no reward with your Father who is in the heavens. 2 So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be glorified by men. . . .
The idea of a "pioneer" or "full-time servant" as opposed to a publisher is just another legalism based on a measure so that we are "noticed" for our gifts of mercy. So the entire context of Romans (regarding "law") and other letters of Paul are just as applicable. We are being reminded that we probably would not have the motivation to perform such works without the "notice" that these "awarded" titles provide. Yet Jehovah does not reward "service" and "works;" Jehovah rewards only pure, heart-felt motivation. Works can be void of pure motivation, but pure motivation will never be void of the kind of works that Jehovah appreciates. Jehovah rewards only the motivation based on love for Him and love for our fellow humans. He sees our works, and does not ignore them of course, but it's our work done in secret, never reported to anyone, that is evidence of proper motivation. Otherwise, it is just as likely that it is men we are trying to please, not Jehovah. 
As I'm sure you already know, there are literally hundreds of other verses in support of this same idea.
 

Sure. If you think true Christianity is measured like blood pressure then I have no wish to argue with you. I believe JW's are fairly unique among Christian denominations in this regard. Perhaps Jesus' direction in Matt 6:3 doesn't actually apply to us, and perhaps also the Bible just omitted the need to measure people by "hours of work" by accident.
If you truly believe that then I don't wish to dispute with you. Some people are suggesting that it's the right way to handle things, and I'm simply pointing out the mindset and counter-productive fruits that can result by being constantly oriented in this way.
Personally I don't feel that any scriptural instruction is for no reason, but I appreciate that others rationalize differently.

You do give me a wry smile TH.
If the congregation average hours is 10hrs then >10hrs = spiritually okay, <10hrs = something wrong
(Gal 6:4 anyone?)
And those 10hrs can be standing by a cart smiling, but they can't be visiting the sick, helping the elderly, etc.
Where are these metrics found in God's Word? Can you not just know a brother/sister well enough to know how they are truly doing spiritually? Or is that a part of the problem - more time spent gathering metrics than getting to know people?
 

BTW - who do you think is more likely to be influencing Google - the God of this system of things, or the God of the Universe who already gave us his Word?
I actually don't have a strong opinion on this, but one can be sure that if JWs were ranking low on these things the average JW would be blaming the other guy.

I have often given thought as the MOST PROBABLE way to calculate time ... and it is ONLY my BEST EDUCATED GUESS, at the present time ...  is first realize that the PERSPECTIVE of the narrator in Genesis is of one standing on the surface of the Earth watching it's formation.
It is NOT a "view from Space".
Then ... we know from MOUNTAINS of very hard evidence (  no pun intended) that the Earth went from formless and void about Three and one-half BILLION years ago to a ball of molten rock from collisions with impacting and accretion materials, became an oblate spheroid (generally a ball...) and it took that long to become the Lovely Blue-Green-Tan Planet we have today., with the Moon in EXACTLY the right place, for the first time in the history of the Solar System, so that Earth observers can use it as a tool to wrestle the secrets from the Universe, as Einstein waited 18 or so years for a Solar Eclipse to verify his theory of relativity as being TRUE.
So ... if you take 3-1/2 billion years divided by six creative days, (and a day of rest ...), that is 3, 500,000,000 years divided by 7, which gives you each of the seven "days"  is about a half-billion years long.  
Time to have the entire Earth go through many changes, from a ball of super-heated steam covered incandescent rock in total darkness, to a lush jungle and ecosphere with hundreds of millions of frolicking dinosaurs and other critters swarming over the Earth.
My current BEST GUESS ... based on VERY hard evidence ... is that we are living in God's rest day now .... but where we are in that half-billion year long rest day would be wild guessing without any hard evidence.  (That means delusional fantasy, for those in Rio Linda...)
The entire Universe SCREAMS! ...  screams .... SCREAMS! ... of the existing time scale of all things .... stars, planetary formation, geological epocs,  climate variations , life .. extinctions ... life ... extinctions, etc., and of vast and widespread civilizations of proto-men, precursors to "Homo Erectus" , eventually leading to the direct creation of "Homo Theocraticus" ... the first sanctioned  humans ...by God.
             By the way ... this "theory" SOLVES the problem of  evolution's  billions of tons of hard evidence across all sciences being irrefutably true, and the Bible account of the first "Humans" being the direct creation of Jehovah God.          
IT FITS ALL KNOWN FACTS FROM BOTH SIDES .... WITHOUT ANY COMPROMISES OR OBFUSCATIONS OR COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.
If it takes more than one paragraph to explain ANY concept ... it probably is NOT true.
I am 70, now, and these things are for younger and smarter people to work out the details.  
As Kenny Rogers sang in his song "The Gambler" ....
"You gotta know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away,
Know when to run.
You can't count your money, while you're sittin' at the table ..
The'ill be time enough for countin' ...
when the dealings done."

I don't think this is objectively true at all.
Do a Google search on "the last days" or "the last days bible" (adding "Bible" focuses a bit better on what we're talking about).
Admittedly the JW team has done some good SEO work to get their own page near the top - but that is JW's talking about their own beliefs. It's not the "everyone else" you refer to.
Many people are talking about the last days, and in the first few pages of search results I couldn't find one non-JW source that was making reference to JW belief.
You can see from the results that lots of Christian groups in general are talking about the last days, and most of them believe that we are in them.
If you're convinced that when the average person hears "the last days" they automatically think of JWs and no other Christian denomination, how would you support that? I honestly think it's an impression given to JWs by JWs, and not an objective reality.
That's not to say that JWs aren't doing a decent job of talking about it. I'm just trying to put some perspective on it.

I don't think this is objectively true at all.
Do a Google search on "the last days" or "the last days bible" (adding "Bible" focuses a bit better on what we're talking about).
Admittedly the JW team has done some good SEO work to get their own page near the top - but that is JW's talking about their own beliefs. It's not the "everyone else" you refer to.
Many people are talking about the last days, and in the first few pages of search results I couldn't find one non-JW source that was making reference to JW belief.
You can see from the results that lots of Christian groups in general are talking about the last days, and most of them believe that we are in them.
If you're convinced that when the average person hears "the last days" they automatically think of JWs and no other Christian denomination, how would you support that? I honestly think it's an impression given to JWs by JWs, and not an objective reality.
That's not to say that JWs aren't doing a decent job of talking about it. I'm just trying to put some perspective on it.

I don't think this is objectively true at all.
Do a Google search on "the last days" or "the last days bible" (adding "Bible" focuses a bit better on what we're talking about).
Admittedly the JW team has done some good SEO work to get their own page near the top - but that is JW's talking about their own beliefs. It's not the "everyone else" you refer to.
Many people are talking about the last days, and in the first few pages of search results I couldn't find one non-JW source that was making reference to JW belief.
You can see from the results that lots of Christian groups in general are talking about the last days, and most of them believe that we are in them.
If you're convinced that when the average person hears "the last days" they automatically think of JWs and no other Christian denomination, how would you support that? I honestly think it's an impression given to JWs by JWs, and not an objective reality.
That's not to say that JWs aren't doing a decent job of talking about it. I'm just trying to put some perspective on it.

I'm not aware of one comment on here that disputes either point.
The difference is that some people here castigate others for not accepting specific human calculated dates as part of Jehovah's timeline, whereas others accept the idea that it's proven folly to ignore Jesus' words about this subject.
 

We know the reason why some portion of the "times and seasons" in the Hebrew Scriptures were "released" from "his own jurisdiction." You mentioned it when you quoted 1 Peter 1:10-11. It pointed to the time when Jesus would appear, suffer, be glorified, and therefore the time of salvation.
would be available through the suffering of Christ, and the glory that would follow.
Therefore, Christians KNEW that they were currently in the day of salvation:
(Romans 13:11-13) 11 And do this because you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers. 12 The night is well along; the day has drawn near. Let us therefore throw off the works belonging to darkness and let us put on the weapons of the light. 13 Let us walk decently as in the daytime,. . .
(2 Corinthians 6:1, 2) 6 Working together with him, we also urge you not to accept the undeserved kindness of God and miss its purpose. 2 For he says: “In an acceptable time I heard you, and in a day of salvation I helped you.” Look! Now is the especially acceptable time. Look! Now is the day of salvation.
(Revelation 12:10, 11) . . .“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death.
From this point on (after Jesus had been given ALL authority in heaven and on earth - Matt 28:18), they trusted that Jehovah had the future times and seasons in his own jurisdiction, and only needed to know that they should keep always on the watch precisely because they could not know the times and seasons. That's why keeping on the watch was always about conduct and faith and never about trying to look into chronology.
As you are probably aware, the problem isn't just with the need to create a two-lifespan generation, but everything about the 1914 theory is problematic from a Scriptural point of view:
All evidence shows the 1914 date is wrong when trying to base it on the destruction of Jerusalem. (Daniel 1:1; 2 Chron 36:1-22; Jer 25:8-12; Zech 1:12, 7:4; Ezra 3:10-13) Paul said that Jesus sat at God's right hand and already began ruling as king at that time. (1 Cor 15:25) Jesus said not to be fooled by the idea that wars and rumors of wars would be the start of a "sign" (Matt 24:4,5) Jesus said that the parousia would be as visible as lightning (Matt 24:27). He spoke against people who might say he had returned but was not visible. (Matt 24:23-26) Jesus said that his "parousia" would come as a surprise to the faithful, not that they would discern the time of the parousia decades in advance. (Matt 24:36-42) Jesus said that the kingdom would not be indicated by "signs" (Luke 17:20, any translation except NWT in this case) The synteleia (end of all things together) refers to a concluding event, not an extended period of time (Matt 28:20) Jesus was already called King and even "King of Kings" in the first century. (1 Tim 6:15, Heb 7:2,17; Rev 1:5; 17:14) Wicked, beastly King Nebuchadnezzar's insanity and humiliation does not represent Jesus as the "lowliest one of mankind." (Heb 1:5,6; 2:10,11; Daniel 4:23-25; cf. Heb 2:7; 1 Pet 3:17,18) The demise of a Gentile kingdom cannot rightly represent the time of the rise of the Gentile kingdoms (Daniel 4:26,27) The Gentile kings did not meet their demise in 1914. (Rev 2:25,26) The time assigned to the Gentile Times that Jesus spoke about in Luke 21:24 is already given as 3.5 times, not 7 times (Revelation 11:2,3) The Devil was already brought down from "heaven" in the first century. (1 John 2:14,15; 1 Pet 5:8; Luke 10:18; Heb 2:14) The Bible says that the "last days" began in the first century. (Acts 2:14-20; 2 Tim 3:1-17; 1 Peter 3:3-5; Heb 1:2, almost any translation except NWT in this case.) I'll move this point to a new thread, because it appears that it could easily create off-topic discussions.