Srecko Sostar

This would have been when they were teaching the 7,000 year Creative days. And the 6,000th year of God's Rest day.  And dare i say teaching 1975 as the coming Armageddon. 

Now is come to be clear from where S. Lett borrow his words about final part of last days, or last days of last days, or ... :)) it doesn't matter.
It seems how S. Lett reads very old WT publications and than get some ideas for new light, clarification and so on :))

Sadly, they are put in a corner, over and over again.  This photo is spreading like wildfire.  Its  words were taught as FACT, as TRUTH.  It is amazing that truth can be viewed as a rubber ball bouncing high, then low, then high again, and in many different directions.
"You didn’t choose me, but I chose you and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should REMAIN; that whatever you will ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you."  John 15:16
One must ask, if the WT leaders have prayed for scriptural understanding, but produce fruit that rots, are they being deceived by a another spirit?  (1 John 4:1; 2 Cor 11:4)  Jesus didn't make false promises.  If he said the Father would give understanding to his disciples, we have full belief that He would...to those fully devoted to Him (and not to an organization built with wood and stone)
Be appalled, O heavens, at this;
    be shocked, be utterly desolate,
declares the Lord,
13 for My people have committed two evils:
they have forsaken Me,
    the fountain of living waters,
and hewed out cisterns for themselves,
    broken cisterns that can hold no water.  Jer 2:12,13
 
https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/11/generation.html
 
 

This is err premise. Sorry.
What was built from the start (my start was in 1975) WT publication teaches how generation is 70-80 in length and is literally connected with the year 1914 as start point to be able to count when "signs" will culminate in Armageddon. 
Because of that JW's are/was put in "corner" with this. "Overlapping" invention is just try how to get out of the corner. 
 

This is err premise. Sorry.
What was built from the start (my start was in 1975) WT publication teaches how generation is 70-80 in length and is literally connected with the year 1914 as start point to be able to count when "signs" will culminate in Armageddon. 
Because of that JW's are/was put in "corner" with this. "Overlapping" invention is just try how to get out of the corner. 
 

I made comment on WT article that @4Jah2me put in his comment, and of course on many other WT article that making statements how Jesus gave task of feeding only to 1919 small group of people inside WT.
Also, if we going into searching to whom specific words was addressed by Jesus, about feeding,i found only this specific verse that can be connected with "spiritual food". I must tell, also, how i am not reading Bible as many of you does regular or every day. This is from memory and than go to search where some verse is in the book. Because that, it can be how i missed some other verse which confirm other conclusion. 
In verses you offer it is notable how other people, not Jesus, encouraged fellow brothers and elders to be in service of helping/feeding people in congregations. Nothing wrong with that, of course. 
What is of concern is stubborn claims made by WT and GB how only few people inside JW Church are delegated/appointed, not by Peter or Paul, nor by Russel and Rutherford, but by JHVH and Jesus themselves, to be FDS Class. And much more - How no other individual, or group of people/elders, no one of Anointed as individual or group is/are allowed to do this feeding.
I agree how you are right in conclusion how "this verse not say that ONLY Peter should feed", and i hope you will agree how Jesus or any Bible verse not say how ONLY governing body in NY HQ should feed, too.  :))
Paul is example of individual, very much independent in actions and words. And he was not part of any sort of GB that is promoted today. 
 
@César Chávez put this interesting verse in comment:
 Brothers and sisters, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.” - Act 6
1st century brothers and sisters (anointed or not)  had spiritual ability to recognize who among Men are full of Spirit. I suppose how you need Spirit for doing this? Can we say they were "inspired"? At least for this particular moment and particular task?
History repeats. WT study magazine and TV Broadcasting doing same thing to JW people today.....with some other methods and words: Trust in Us because Jesus also trust in Us. If Jesus trust in Us, shouldn't you do the same?
Do not forget, Jesus not say that only (Peter) GB will feed people. GB ask people to trust ONLY to them because they claim how ONLY they have spiritual food to share. 
Where we are now?

Of course. I agree that the Bible says nothing about 1919, NY, or the Governing Body. But it's a belief based on the supposed fulfillment of prophecies as these same persons understand the prophecies. I didn't respond to 4J because he had to turn this into a "lie" instead of an "interpretation." I agree, though, that the interpretation is so ingrained that they weren't careful with the wording at all. Also, as I've said before, just because Matthew 24:45 isn't a source that "prophesies" such a work as is taken on by the GB, it doesn't mean it isn't a "fine work." Or that it should not be appreciated. It's just that we have to be alert to always remember that all of us stumble many times, including the GB, so we should always do our Christian duty and test anything and everything they say, and if our consciences differ, to always obey God as ruler rather than men.

Furuli's Introduction and Chapter 1 are important as a foundation to the topic, but we can skip them for the purpose of a discussion. We'll go straight to Chapter 2 which starts out with a summary "review" that I have copied below.
Furuli opens up the discussion with the words I put on the left, and I'll add some comments on the right. They are color-coded to match up which paragraphs are being commented upon.
THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE -REVIEW
In Matthew, chapters 24 and 25, the presence (parousia) of Jesus from 1914 to the great tribulation is mentioned four times, and his coming (erkhomai) as the judge in the great tribulation, at the end of his presence, is mentioned eight times.
 
The faithful and discreet slave is mentioned in Matthew 24:45-47. The previous view of the GB was that the coming of the master (v. 46) occurred in 1918, and the slave was appointed over all his belongings in 1919. These belongings included the branch offices, the Kingdom Halls, and the preaching work.
The present view is that the coming (v. 46) is future and will happen in the great tribulation. Then the slave will be appointed over all the belongings by receiving a heavenly resurrection. This new view excludes any connection between the coming (v.46) and the presence of Jesus.
Nevertheless, The Watchtower of 2017 says that the slave was appointed in 1919 to give God's servants spiritual food at the proper time during the presence of Jesus. But no evidence has been given for this claim.
Luke 12:35-44 discusses the faithful steward, the discreet one, which, according to the context, is the same as the faithful and discreet slave in Matt 24:45. One slave was put in charge of a master's household to give the other slaves literal food at the appointed time. Such a slave is mentioned in Luke chapter 12, and when he faithfully is giving the other slaves food when the master returns, thus doing his job, he will be appointed over all the belongings of the master.
The situation is the same in Matthew 24:45-47. That the slave gives literal food to the other slaves is his job. When he is doing this job faithfully when the Lord arrives in the great tribulation, he will be appointed over all the master's belongings. The focus is on literal food and not on spiritual food. Thus, "the slave" refers to individual Christians who are faithful when the master arrives and not to a class of persons.
In Matthew 24:48-51, the wicked slave is mentioned. The GB says that Jesus is not saying that a wicked slave will come, but points to the possibility; this is correct. However, neither in Luke 12:42 nor in Matthew 24:45 is Jesus saying that the faithful and discreet slave will come. But Jesus asks who the faithful and discreet slave will be. In other words: "Who will fill the role of the faithful and discreet  slave in the illustration of Jesus when Jesus comes as the judge in the great tribulation?" The whole setting in Luke 12 and Matthew 24 is:"Who will be on the watch when Jesus comes as the judge"?
Furuli still supports the idea that the "parousia" began in 1914 and goes on  until the "erchomai" (Judgment Day). Most Bible scholars believe that the "parousia/ synteleia/ telos/ erchomai" are all nearly synonymous, which coincidentally results in the same outcome as Furuli sees here. That's because the FDS illustration is specifically tied to the erchomai and there is no specific to to the beginning of the parousia.
Furuli is setting up to show how the doctrine got "confused" over time, and pieces of the interpretation are still based on older versions of the doctrine which are no longer consistent with parts of the new version. That's because the doctrine began when the erchomai was not "Judgment Day" but a judgment based on Jesus "coming in 1918 to inspect the temple." After the FDS passed the test in 1918, they were then appointed over all his belongings in 1919. Those belongings were said to be the properties and purview of the WTS. (I think that Kingdom Halls weren't added to this list until around 2006.)
It's not like the GB hadn't thought if this, because (as Anna pointed out in the other thread) they are now only supposed to be appointed as FDS prior to the "full reward" which allows for an appointment in 1919, it's just that there is no specific scriptural reason any more to place this appointment anywhere between 1914 and the future erchomai (Judgment).
Furuli's logic has started to weaken. He's right, of course, that there are no longer any scriptural reasons here to point to 1919, except to fit the GB's own view of themselves. There is no more reason to pick 1919 than 1915, 1935, 1972, or maybe even 33 CE. But nothing excludes a 1919 date either, even if one doesn't believe an invisible presence and kingship started in 1914. However, if Furuli really still believes in 1914 as he says he does, and he expects a single generation in which a preaching work occurs in the midst of trials and tribulations, then why not provide an FDS specifically or that special generation? If 1914 works for Furuli, then there is some logic to appoint an FDS shortly after that generation begins.
Nothing to see here. This is fairly obvious that Luke 12 gives the same illustration with exact same idea and only a few words added or changed.
I personally agree with this. Jesus was talking about persons who have a responsibility to do a job, that of giving literal food to the rest of the slaves in a household when the master is gone. A slave who is handles such a responsibility faithfully can expect a reward. Especially because it would be so easy to slack off and take advantage while the master is away. It doesn't have to be a prophecy about "spiritual" food  It's not a prophecy. It's an illustration just like others Jesus made about readiness.
Furuli is not giving credence to the WT idea that this must be a prophecy because it's found in Matthew 24 and Luke 12. Also, it starts out with a "who is" which has been taken to be a command of sorts to go out and identify who is meant here. Furuli seems to treat it like any other illustration, as if reminding us that we don't automatically create a type/antitype out of the carcass and the eagles in verse 28. We don't automatically look for a pregnant woman class and the nursing baby class from verse 18.  Who really is a householder that will know in advance when a thief is coming to break into his house? (v44)
At first it appeared that Furuli was agreeing with a linguistic reason from Greek that the WT uses to downplay the possibility of an evil slave coming. But this is really just agreeing that there is nothing definite here about a wicked slave coming. And this is paralleled with his view that this illustration is also not saying anything definite about a faithful slave coming, either. That's a surprising turn, but I suppose it's really like Luke 11:11 saying "Who really is the father who will hand his son a snake when he asks for a fish?" It makes a teaching lesson, not a prophecy about when such a situation will prove true. Furuli treats it as if Jesus is saying what he said in Luke 18: 
(Luke 18:8) Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?”
 

He does deal with that objection, claiming that the world's influence can be found just as easily anywhere and everywhere (school, work, vocational training, etc), and that pinning so much blame on higher education is unfounded. To him, higher education is a serious endeavor, and there are mostly serious schools where one can mostly focus on those endeavors. He also believes that the Society, and Witness families would have generally done a better job caring for one another if more had completed their studies to become nurses, IT professionals, etc. The idea that the time is too short to get this kind of education through college degrees has not proven correct, as it has now been 12 years since Losch told an audience that they should quit college even if they are nearing the end of their degree program, and that they will be accountable to Jehovah if they don't. 
His primary problem, he indicates, is that the negative information about higher education is skewed. It's a caricature of higher education, and Furuli thinks this shows that the GB, especially Splane and Losch, have no idea even what higher education really is. Also, he compares the balanced information of 1992 with the new, unbalanced "radical" information against higher education in 2005. He shows how all the sources were misused in that article, and criticizes the misuse of that information in talks since 2005. He compares his own experience against the counsel from the GB.

This verse does not say that ONLY Peter should feed, it just says that Peter should feed the little sheep. it does not logically follow that no one else should imitate the good example that Peter was to give us. It's the job of a shepherd to feed his sheep by guiding them to pastures where they feed.
Look what Paul says:
(Acts 20:26-28) 26 So I call you to witness this very day that I am clean from the blood of all men, 27 for I have not held back from telling you all the counsel of God. 28 Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, . . .
(1 Peter 5:1-4) 5 Therefore, as a fellow elder, a witness of the sufferings of the Christ and a sharer of the glory that is to be revealed, I make this appeal to the elders among you: 2 Shepherd the flock of God under your care, serving as overseers, not under compulsion, but willingly before God; not for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly; 3 not lording it over those who are God’s inheritance, but becoming examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief shepherd has been made manifest, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
(Ephesians 4:11, 12) . . .And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers, 12 with a view to the readjustment of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ,

Can somebody who has read this book tell us, does Furuli  give some thoughts about people who left WTJWorg?

@TrueTomHarley YOUR COMMENT ABOVE IS CLICK BATE OF COURSE. But it just makes you look very childish in a bad way. 
I'm glad it keeps you happy though.  
@Srecko Sostar   As for personality. Everyone has a split personality or a dual one. Especially JWs because they are told to change, it does not happen naturally.
However when a person does get a Christian conscience then they begin to look more deeply at scripture and at the church / organisation they belong to. Hence many leave the CCJW because they can observe so much hypocrisy and immorality in it. The ones that stay are the ones either too lazy to look deeply, or, the ones that are too frightened to lose family and so called friends. 
But TTH pretends they leave because they cannot cope with it. He also pretends that they all go off into the 'world'. I suppose it might be the only way Tom can handle the fact that so many people leave the CCJW voluntarily. 
 

Question for JW members.
What are GB anointed with?
1) With oil ?
2) With hands of another JW member ? 
3) With holy spirit ?
 

Personality is very strong "thing", and was shaped with many known and unknown elements we are not aware, sometimes, or not at all aware of them to the end of life.
 Maybe we could say about that thing like this. For example, someone who is hasty in words, after learning the “truth” of JW’s and Bible, become successful in softening this nature or it became somehow invisible to others. But that does not necessarily mean how a person changes his personality and deleted bad attribute, but he / she is just able to control more certain behavior. Another reason for this look on matter is Bible fact how imperfection inherited from first people is here. And it is not gone because you are JW or whatever else. 
This can be topic for conversation. Even people in Bible who was "inspired" to do some God's act was "inspired" for particular moment and deed. They are not people who "changed their personality" given by nature and build up by  family, society, events, learning and experience. 
WTJWorg said how reading Bible, hard work to change bad aspirations/tendencies, good society and help of HS will bring you "new personality". But still, WTJWorg say another fact, we are still imperfect and err (i will add: purposely or not purposely) till the end of 1000 years Kingdom. 
Question still stay: What you manage to change, what you changed in fact, in meanwhile??
Nature is written in the blood and flesh much stronger than we think.

Question for JW members.
What are GB anointed with?
1) With oil ?
2) With hands of another JW member ? 
3) With holy spirit ?
 

This full situation always reminds me of this:
(Mark 9:38-40) 38 John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us.
I think this shows that a person does not have to be a JW to serve God through Christ. 
As for the GB being likened to the Sanhedrin, wasn't it them that had Jesus put to death? So yes i can see a similarity. 
And as for the 1st Century 'group of men in Jerusalem' that made decisions, weren't they inspired by God's Holy Spirit ?  Whereas this GB admits to not being so. 
And wasn't it the Apostle Paul that wrote to the congregations, not those men in Jerusalem ?
 And wasn't the Apostle Paul chosen and directed by Jesus Christ personally ? And wasn't Paul inspired of God's Holy Spirit. 
And didn't those men of the 1st Century PROVE that they were inspired by their WORKS. 
And Now :- The Watchtower dated (top right corner) March 2020.  Study articles May 4- 31 2020
Page 6 paragraph 16. from part way down, reads. (I have paper copy supplied by an elder)
" Jesus has appointed a small group of anointed men to take the lead in organising the work that he wants done today. Jesus referred to this group of men as 'the faithful and discreet slave' and they take seriously their responsibility to feed and protect you spiritually. "
What hogwash ! Complete lies or deliberate deceit.
Firstly the GB say they are not inspired, so how would they have been 'appointed' ?
 ALL anointed remnant are anointed of God's Holy spirit hence they know they are anointed. 
All of those of the Anointed remnant were seen as being the F&DS at one time, so when did Jesus suddenly decide to change this ? 
So how was / is this special appointing done ? 
Secondly. Jesus did not refer to these men as the F&DS 
Jesus asked a question ???? He did not make a  statement, and he certainly didn't say who they were.  
But many JW's just want their ears tickled, and many JWs are brainwashed enough to just accept everything written in the Watchtower. 
 

False assumption.  I knew a man who had a similar personality than JT. 
He was a difficult man to understand and had a problem to fit in with other JWs because of his personality.   It was due to growing up in an orphanage all his life.
His wife's faithfulness helped the children to remain faithful. (They came in the truth together). He had left the truth for several years because he was witty like JT but with a quirky element of black acidity in it.  Most people fled because  they could not handle it - not because they did not care.
Age did not soften his personality...... but he was in truth a good man.  He provided well for his family and would eagerly help strangers.  He would laugh easy but always had a look about him as though he was a suspicious predatory cat which  did not trust his surroundings.  Whatever happened to him as a child formed a lasting disability - which was unseen to the eye.   
He therefore needed much more love from us all ..... but most of us had our own baggage and issues- not enough love to give someone like him some peace and heal the damage. Only jehovah can do this.
This person came back into the congregation before he died. He had never broken any biblical laws except that he was a hard man to understand.

(Exodus 18:17-23) 17 Moses’ father-in-law said to him: “What you are doing is not good. 18 You will surely wear out, both you and this people who are with you, because this is too big a load for you and you cannot carry it by yourself. 19 Now listen to me. I will give you advice, and God will be with you. You serve as representative for the people before the true God, and you must bring the cases to the true God. 20 You should warn them about what the regulations and the laws are and make known to them the way in which they should walk and the work that they should do. 21 But you should select from the people capable men fearing God, trustworthy men hating dishonest profit, and appoint these over them as chiefs over thousands, chiefs over hundreds, chiefs over fifties, and chiefs over tens. 22 They should judge the people when cases arise, and they will bring every difficult case to you, but every minor case they will decide. Make it easier for yourself by letting them share the load along with you. 23 If you do this, and God so commands you, you will be able to stand the strain, and everyone will go home satisfied.”
A "hierarchy" not unlike governments and businesses too.
Also, you might have referred to this case:
*** w03 4/1 pp. 18-19 par. 14 Mildness—An Essential Christian Quality ***
After Jehovah appointed him leader of the nation of Israel, Moses’ quality of mildness was still in evidence. A young man reported to Moses that Eldad and Medad were acting as prophets in the camp—even though they were not present when Jehovah poured out his spirit upon the 70 older men who were to serve as Moses’ helpers. Joshua declared: “My lord Moses, restrain them!” Moses mildly replied: “Are you feeling jealous for me? No, I wish that all of Jehovah’s people were prophets, because Jehovah would put his spirit upon them!” (Numbers 11:26-29) Mildness helped defuse that tense situation.
This full situation always reminds me of this:
(Mark 9:38-40) 38 John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us.

I hate to say it, but you are quite right on this one. I knew that these time periods were always subject to change any time something better comes along. And I was actually very surprised we held onto this 1944 date when the 1999 Daniel's Prophecy book came out. But I was more surprised that it took me this long to notice the significance of the 1971 date for this change. The footnotes of the 1971 Watchtower spell out very clearly that this is the first adjustment since 1959 (which was about the same as the 1933 WT before that).

Good thing these literal, timely "prophesies" are flexible.  

Interesting.  Which is truly scriptural, the elder arrangement today, or the elimination of the elder arrangement in Rutherford's day?  Is God so fickle that He would approve of both the elimination AND the re-installment of the elder body in the 70's?  Of course, Rutherford wanted total power.  Yet, he refers to scripture to prove his point, just as scripture was used to verify the elder arrangement in 1970-71.  
"Therefore be it resolved that there is no Scriptural authority for the existence of the elective office of elders in the church and that henceforth we will not elect any person to the office of elder; that all of the anointed of God are elders, as that term is defined by the Scriptures, and all are servants of the Most High. . . . A service director who shall be nominated by us and confirmed by the Society’s executive or manager, and which service director shall be a member of the service committee of this company.
"This Resolution was adopted by congregations of Jehovah’s witnesses throughout the earth. The announcement in the Watchtower magazine of October 15, 1932, at the end of 2,300 evenings and mornings was the official notification made by Jehovah through his visible channel of communication that his sanctuary of anointed “living stones” had been cleansed, vindicated and justified. It had been restored to its rightful state as regards the elimination of democratically elected “elders” and as regards the theocratic appointing of the congregational overseer. Certainly the twenty-four elderly persons whom the apostle John saw in his heavenly vision crowned and seated on thrones around the throne of the Most High God were not “elders” democratically elected by the congregations on earth below. They were “elders” chosen by the Sovereign of the universe because of their full Christian growth and proved integrity. Certainly, too, the “seven stars” whom John saw upon the right hand of the glorified Jesus Christ and who pictured the “angels” or overseers of the congregations of Jehovah’s anointed sanctuary class were full-grown “elders” chosen and controlled, not by the congregations after the democratic procedure of the seventh world power, but by the Supreme Head of the theocratic organization through Jesus Christ. (Rev. 1:16, 20; 2:1; 4:4, 10, 11) Rightly the remnant of the sanctuary class on earth was brought into accord with this theocratic rule in Jehovah’s due time."
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1959723#h=17
 
 
 

Wait!!! Jehovah's don't believe in the trinity of the GB, Jesus and Jehovah?
Just kidding:)

@TrueTomHarley  I actually feel very sad about your massive comment in which you try to blame me for JTR's problems.  Sad for you Tom. Because you must be feeling a great deal of hurt to write such things. 
Quote " You did everything you could to separate him from his God. Remember, he was on my side of the Great Issue, not yours."
He didn't need to take your side or mine. He is a strong enough man to make his own decisions.  And your accusation against me is not that of a true Christian. Plus the fact that: The CCJW is NOT God. 
Quote " Rolf makes perfectly clear that he regards his faith as true." 
I also regard my faith as true. My faith is in Almighty God through Jesus Christ. My faith is not in the GB of CCJW. 
Quote " You can’t go about life being hypercritical. You have to be ready to move on. You can’t go digging through the diamonds to find the dirt. You have to be ready to forgive."
The GB have diamonds ? No. The dirt is on the top for those that actually see it. CSA isn't buried anymore. What was done in the dark is now brought out into the open. CSA is not hypercritical. 
The GB are being shown up for what they really are, and not just by 'idiots' like me. 
Mr Rook seemed to have his own reasons for disliking the Organisation. He made that quite clear.
And as for his family it seems they don't agree with your ways. Were they ready to move on or to forgive ? It seems not. JWs in practice. Hypocrisy. 
And by your tone, it seems that you hold a grudge against me. No forgiveness there then, only blame.
 

Perhaps JTR was surrounded with "false friends" for much longer time before he joined this forum and had conversation with ex-JW's here. If you noticed i respected JTR choice of his decisions. It is in him only to "take side" or to balancing in intellectual and emotional turmoil. 
As you said, "his genuine friends distance themselves" and "his own kids deserted him". Also, JTR acted as "spiritual terrorist" (your description) on this forum. 
This "terrorist" issue remind me on @4Jah2me and @Arauna conversation about GB and them as "spiritual dictators".
How different they are. JTR and GB.
 

That is an insult to Mr Rook.