Srecko Sostar

It finally appears that we are winding down and I like that @b4ucuhear has already tried to reduce this conversation to only the most important points. However, there is still a chance that someone will read what @César Chávez said, and begin to believe that there are now some new scholars that agree with the Watchtower chronology, which Cesar claims 'has been correct all along.'
Let's just make this simple in case others might look at what was written here and get confused. You are pretending that the Watchtower has been "correct all along" and your evidence is supposed to be found among these six "new" sources. From what I have found so far, the folowing is more accurate:
"New Chronology" Scholar Agrees w/ WTS for Jerusalem destruction - Nebuchadnezzar's 18th/19th year as 607-606 Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, Grayson - Nebuchadnezzar's 18th/19th year as 587-586 Jonathan Stokl Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Caroline Waerzeggers Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Gary Knoppers Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc.  Peter Ackroyd Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Lester Grabbe Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Deirdre Fulton Disagrees with Watchtower dates Agrees with COJ, Wiseman, etc. Of course, now you are telling me that I am putting too much emphasis on the word destruction, as if the Watchtower doctrine doesn't emphasize the destruction of Jerusalem.
But here are just a few of the Watchtower references, using only articles from the last 10 years, and some samples from just a few of the books. Who is it, you think, who is fixated on this word destruction?
*** w18 February p. 3 par. 2 Imitate the Faith and Obedience of Noah, Daniel, and Job ***
Apostate Jerusalem was nearing its foretold destruction, which occurred in 607 B.C.E.
*** w16 June p. 16 Questions From Readers ***
apostate Jerusalem prior to its destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** ws14 7/15 p. 18 par. 9 “You Are My Witnesses” ***
After that, Jehovah continued warning his people until the year 607 before Christ, when Jerusalem was destroyed.
*** w14 7/15 p. 25 par. 9 “You Are My Witnesses” ***
That was 125 years before Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** w11 3/15 p. 31 par. 14 Keep Awake, as Jeremiah Did ***
Some Jews as well as non-Israelites survived Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** w11 10/1 p. 26 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***
the year of Jerusalem’s destruction. Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses say that it was 607 B.C.E.?
*** w11 10/1 p. 29 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***
But if the evidence from the inspired Scriptures clearly points to 607 B.C.E. for Jerusalem’s destruction, why do many authorities hold to the date 587 B.C.E.?
*** w11 10/1 p. 31 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***
Counting back from that year would place Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E
*** w11 11/1 p. 25 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
then his 18th year would be 607 B.C.E.—the very year indicated by the Bible’s chronology for the destruction of Jerusalem!
*** w11 11/1 p. 27 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
This, therefore, supports the date of 607 B.C.E. for Jerusalem’s destruction—just as the Bible indicates.
*** w11 11/1 p. 27 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
Those statements strongly indicate that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. As the above evidence shows, that conclusion has some secular support.
*** w09 3/15 p. 14 par. 14 Keep Your Eyes on the Prize ***
In time, the entire nation turned apostate, resulting in its destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** g 1/11 p. 11 A Book You Can Trust—Part 3 ***
In 607 B.C.E., Babylonian armies destroyed Jerusalem and took the survivors off to Babylon, where they were treated cruelly.
*** g 5/09 p. 11 A Receipt That Corroborates the Bible Record ***
Nebo-sarsechim was one of King Nebuchadnezzar’s commanders at the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.,
*** rr chap. 6 p. 67 par. 13 “The End Is Now Upon You” ***
Thus, both time periods would end in 607 B.C.E., the exact year in which Jerusalem fell and was destroyed, just as Jehovah had foretold.
*** rr chap. 7 p. 74 par. 8 The Nations “Will Have to Know That I Am Jehovah” ***
from the time of the Exodus to the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
*** rr chap. 8 p. 89 par. 14 “I Will Raise Up One Shepherd” ***
In 607 B.C.E., with the destruction of Jerusalem, the “high” kingdom of Judah centered in Jerusalem was brought low
*** rr chap. 11 p. 126 par. 17 “I Have Appointed You as a Watchman” ***
who spoke to God’s people in the period surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
*** rr chap. 16 p. 175 par. 9 “Put a Mark on the Foreheads” ***
Ezekiel’s prophecy was fulfilled in 607 B.C.E. when the Babylonian army destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.
*** rr chap. 16 p. 178 par. 17 “Put a Mark on the Foreheads” ***
As we saw earlier, those who survived Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.
*** dp chap. 4 p. 50 par. 8 The Rise and Fall of an Immense Image ***
These words applied to Nebuchadnezzar after Jehovah had used him to destroy Jerusalem, in 607 B.C.E.
*** cl chap. 8 p. 78 par. 5 Restorative Power—Jehovah Is “Making All Things New” ***
Just imagine how faithful Jews felt in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was destroyed.
*** dp chap. 6 p. 96 par. 27 Unraveling the Mystery of the Great Tree ***
If we were to count 2,520 literal days from Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E.,
*** po chap. 2 p. 20 par. 27 The Immortal Possessor of the “Eternal Purpose” ***
God’s protection through the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple by the armies of Babylon in the year 607 B.C.E.
*** po chap. 14 p. 173 par. 11 Triumph for the “Eternal Purpose” ***
Before the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E.
*** jr chap. 15 p. 188 par. 13 “I Cannot Keep Silent” ***
True worshippers were affected by the appalling conditions that prevailed before Jerusalem’s destruction in 607 B.C.E
So you seem to be conflicted over this fixation the Watchtower has with the word "destruction." But you know you can't admit a conflict with the Watchtower itself, and therefore you "project" that conflictedness onto me. I'm willing to do what I can to help you work through this. I've seen it before with others on unrelated topics. What you might need to do as a start, is to spell out exactly what you think the right solution is. You might not be ready to be definitive, and that's OK, but you should start with what you think is probably correct, and how you think the Watchtower should change their wording so that they don't appear to be "fixated" on this word "destruction." How do you think they should have worded it instead?
If you try to answer that question, I'll know you are serious about researching this issue. If you won't even try, then I'll have to consider the next most likely assumption about your motives. 

The Insight Book is from the Org, because they are frightened to answer honest questions. 
And you @b4ucuhear just follow the GB / Orgs directions blindly. 
I like the second scripture you used 
1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teaches another doctrine and does not agree with the wholesome instruction, which is from our Lord Jesus Christ, nor with the teaching that is in harmony with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up with pride and does not understand anything. He is obsessed with arguments and dates about words. These things give rise to envy, strife, slander, wicked suspicions, 5 constant disputes about minor matters by men who are corrupted in mind and deprived of the truth..." 
The Bible Students and the Directors / GB / of Watchtower & JW Org have constantly argued about things. GB members have bee d/fed. Some on here that have worked in Bethel can give you first hand information about regular squabbles there. 
And the puffed up with pride bit, defo' refers to the GB calling themselves the F&DS. 

I would like to remind everyone that Charles Taze Russell was considered an apostate, as was Jesus.
In the very first issue of the Watchtower CTS observed that if we received a truthful statement from Satan (possibly referring to how he was viewed as "satan" ...) .... that statement is still the TRUTH.
Everything has to be evaluated on its own merits, and THAT ALONE ... irregardless of the messenger.
The FIRST refuge of the incompetent is to call someone an apostate.
The second refuge of the incompetent is to in effect say "... take your baseball, and go home.".
...

@b4ucuhear  It was sarcasm. But i see it stung. The truth as they say, hurts sometimes, and you are hurt by truth. I'm not going into the list of dates from the late 1800's through to 1975 and probably more afterwards too. You will know of such things, or you will have built yourself a wall to hide from them. 
But i see you are a typical JW, no real strength of faith, so you have to hide behind that old old word 'apostate'. 

@b4ucuhear 
Quote " Also, who and at what point would a faithful and discreet slave manifest themselves..."
I don't think there is a F&DS as such. I don't think anyone should give themselves that title. If Jesus as the Master returns and finds a certain group of humans doing what he wants them to do, then Jesus himself will decide who that 'slave' is. BUT for a person or group of people to exalt themselves to such a position, well the scriptures tell us what happens to those that Exalt THEMSELVES. 
This bit is so funny :-
Quote " Dates are of little concern to anyone who intends their dedication to God to be forever. "
So, in that case, the Bible Students and Watchtower writers / GB / JW Org et al, are not intending to dedicate themselves to God forever. Because they have always guessed at dates, told lies about dates, destroyed peoples lives with dates, and made a mockery of God with their guessing about dates. It has always been GOING BEYOND THE THINGS WRITTEN. 
 

To be wrong in understanding, in expectations and beliefs, is normal human business. To revise things we see as wrong is also normal and beneficial.
What is NOT normal is when leaders, in this endless process of revision, condemn and exclude all those who disagree. Church leaders and elders proclaims all such individuals as spiritually weak, unfaithful, apostates, usurpers ..etc. And all other rank and file members join to them in this judging and shunning. And for what? For things described as ""positive and progressive trait" of "wrongs". 
Until today, all this JW's elders who are long enough in organization, should learned till now how they judging people on basis of unstable truths and knowledges which continue to change. In that respect, elders are NOT humble and not admitting their mistakes and they not correcting matters - because all those who are dfd and shunned because of doctrinal issues needed to have a different treatment, and should be rehabilitated, amnestied . Treatment that would show how JW "truth and knowledge" is in process of revisions and changes .... to some future confirmation. And how "open minded" elders see and understand this reality. 

I hope you will find some help and be better.

I hope you will find some help and be better.

I hope you will find some help and be better.

I am sorry ... I did not know you were writing on a tablet or pad.
I do my writing on a laptop, with a USB keyboard in front at an angle, with the back on a brick., and with a USB mouse, it is almost effortless, and I type with two fingers.
If it's one thing I have learned in life ... use the best tools you can't afford, even if it means missing two meals a day.

Arauna:
It would be helpful to me if when you are quoting someone, PLEASE quote at least the complete sentence.
Perhaps even with some context.
Thanks.
These cut off, fragmented sentences remind me too much of trying to say something to one of my ex-mothers-in-law.

I think you are both living in a fantasy world where you get encouragement  from others.
Whatever happened to "With Godly devotion, self sufficiency"?
You think the Holy Spirit only flows with those who think vegetarian thoughts, and through encouraging people?
Gimme a break!
 

Very true!  I like to learn new things...... from JW and non-JW. 

I have seen something further under the sun, that the swift do not always win the race, nor do the mighty win the battle,+ nor do the wise always have the food, nor do the intelligent always have the riches,+ nor do those with knowledge always have success,+ because time and unexpected events*  (unforeseen occurrence) overtake them all.
It seems how Bible writer here, spoke about: Coincidence or about Miracle. Or maybe he didn't know how some "unexpected events" were in fact "miracles". :)) But if we seriously accept how his words are inspired and unmistakable, than he say how "miracles" (as intervention made by God) not likely to happen, not exist.  
Then I said in my heart: “What happens to the stupid one will also happen to me.”+ What, then, did I gain by becoming excessively wise? So I said in my heart: “This too is futility.”
This is very significant thought. It is not  just about how fool and wise will die one day. It is about how wise man also can find himself to have foolish wisdom. Let me to translate that in this way: WT Society wisdom is found to be foolish many times. Many topics on these forum revealed this matter.

All that you have said being considered, you still did not provide a SINGLE modern day instance to the contrary, of my suppositions.
Not ONE !
 
 
 

I only asked for ONE example, from any modern human experience, anywhere, by anybody ... that could not be BETTER explained by just plain coincidence or serendipity.
Just ONE, out of the billions of experiences people have, or know about.
The real reason you are refraining from further comment is that trillions of facts .... hard evidence .... irrefutable evidence, contrary to hopes and dreams, and flights of fancy, show God does NOT interfere with our lives, in modern times.
Not as a secular nation.
Not as a spiritual Nation.
Not as individuals.
Just ONE solid example could have proven me wrong.
You may as well go to www.NORADSANTA.ORG, to see where Santa Clause is delivering toys at this moment.
 

What Translation of Bible you prefer? :))) Choose one and please read all what including His teachings. After that, You will have no need for my answers.

But verse 11 says 'with anyone called a brother'  'who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner,'
So tell me, if a person leaves the JW Org of their own choice, and if they do not do the things mentioned above, then what ?  They are no longer 'calling themselves a brother', and, they could well be leading a clean life. But they are still shunned.
And once again, you are using the Anointed as an example. 
Jesus himself ate with Tax Collectors and sinners. He entered their homes, he cured them, he conversed with them regularly.  But JWs are taught not to talk to Ex JWs, even though JWs have no idea why the other person is an Ex JW. 

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him: We ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily upset in mind or troubled, either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter as if from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has come. 
BACK in 1914, Jesus was installed as King of God’s Kingdom, and the Lord’s day began.  w88 10/15 pp. 15-2
“as if from us” – The apostles were “ambassadors for Christ”.  They were authentic “christs”/anointed under Christ as their Head  2 Cor 5:20   Jesus warned us that in the last days, false “christs”/messiahs would DECEIVE THE ELECT/anointed with “great signs and wonders” and a message that the “Day of the Lord has come”.   Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,13; 2 Thess 2:9
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.
Have the elect (anointed saints) in the organization been deceived by Catholicism and the UN?  Have those two entities unitedly proclaimed the “day of the Lord” as the Watchtower has?
The Day of the Lord comes, when the “man of lawlessness” is revealed. 
He opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits * in God’s sanctuary/temple publicizing that he himself is God.
“sits” - to set, appoint, to confer a kingdom on one
Who are exalted over the anointed priests?  Who say they “represent” God’s priesthood?  Who have been given by false christs, the authority TO JUDGE GOD’S SPECIAL POSSESSION AS UNFIT FOR ETERNAL LIFE? 
* God’s temple is not found in Christendom, nor at any nation in the world.  Contrary to what Samuel Herd may say about 8 million JWs as God’s Temple, the anointed alone are God’s Temple.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22   That, you will find in earlier publications of the WT, even your IT Book. 
The man of lawlessness tramples God’s people down with blasphemy.
Rev 13:  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.  Rev 13:1,4-7
“Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization” of elders has challenged God’s priesthood/Temple.  Elders rule, while the anointed are silenced. They have no choice but to either kowtow to the elder body and save face,  or leave disgraced as Christ was disgraced by his own people. Matt 5:11  All of you in the organization are in subjection to this Beast that “kills” all who rejects its lies.  Rev 13:15
Rev 11:1-3 - Then I was given a measuring reed like a rod, with these words: “Go and measure God’s sanctuary and the altar, and count those who worship there. 2 But exclude the courtyard outside the sanctuary. Don’t measure it, because it is given to the Gentiles,  and they will trample the holy city for 42 months. 3 I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days,[e] dressed in sackcloth.
The “Holy City” is Zion, the Temple of God.  The man of lawlessness is revealed by the “two witnesses” who also are “killed” by this Beast/organization.  Rev 11:7
I don't expect you to believe me.  Your eyes are solely fixed on the world of Satan as if there, God's Kingdom will be born.  Job 14:4
 

Arauna, i am sorry but i have to react. You suggesting here, how robbers in this illustration are not Jews, but that is not visible in story. What IS visible in story is fact, how "pure, highly spiritual Jews" (Priest and Levite) not wanted to help but Samaritan did.

But if GB / Writing department only wrote TRUTH that they were 100% certain of and could prove, then the Watchtower mags would be empty, and there would be no 'talk outlines' to use. However, why is it not possible to just have meetings that give praise to God through Christ, without needing to give false information through a magazine ? And why do people need to be told, using a 'Work Book', what to preach ? Surely if they are qualified to preach they would know in their hearts what to preach.  It all just shows that the congregants are just puppets for the GB and it's Org. 
Of course it also shows that I'm not qualified to preach to others  or I would be doing so. Unfortunately, having got rid of a fake foundation, I haven't yet built a new foundation. But i still think that having an empty cup is better than having a cup of poison. So I've thrown the poison away, washed out the cup (my heart and my mind), and now I'm ready to receive truth. But where that truth will come from i do not know. 
 

What Translation of Bible you prefer? :))) Choose one and please read all what including His teachings. After that, You will have no need for my answers.

Few fundamental things which Jesus thought.

You made excellent point... question is not should we preach, but what to preach.