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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Tom Henry in 1914   
    I understand those opposed want to make an argument on anything they can cling onto, but who were the last people to see Jesus in spirit form? If anyone here wants to make an intelligent proposition without outright speculation than even seasoned witnesses here have a problem with, then by all means, lets distinguish those biblical understandings.
  2. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    @TrueTomHarley  I read half of it Tom, but you do tend to go over the top. 
    One thing i find quite funny is the FACT that the GB / JW Org change the use of their conscience when it affects their bank account.
    In many countries JW Preaching is AGAINST THE LAW.  But as the apostles said 'We must obey God as ruler rather than men'. So in many countries Witnesses deliberately break the law to preach. 
    BUT, the GB / JW Org won't 'break the law' to protect young children from being Sexually Abused. 
    Even if it it not a legal requirement' to report, SURELY it IS a requirement from GOD through CHRIST to report all forms of Abuse, Child or Adult, to those authorities which GOD HAD PUT IN PLACE.  
    Berean Study Bible  James 1 v 27 
    Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
    New International Version Romans 13 v 1
    Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
    Christian Standard Bible
    Let everyone submit to the governing authorities, since there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are instituted by God.
    Your GB and its Org have no excuse. 
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Church stands by its decision
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints said it considers protecting victims a top priority, and has a 24-hour help line to report abuse. "   It seems that they have more of a conscience and better morality than the GB and JW org. They may have broken man's law but they obeyed God's law.  And no I do not want to be a Mormon.  But I think there is a scripture somewhere that says something like, 'when those without law do the things of the law' And of course it is talking about God's law not man's.
  3. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    JW elders are clergy and WT Lawyers have said so! The JWorg website for the public has "erroneous" information about this subject. :))
    When will this "new light" about the WT Society Management structure come out titled, 
    "What exactly are the elders in fact?", and will this be announced and presented during meetings to members, as a "clarification"?
  4. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?
    by Alexandra James As many activists know, the Montana Supreme Court reversed a $35 million judgment against Jehovah's Witnesses recently, in a case involving the religion's failure to report child sex abuse to the authorities. (See this news story.)
    Confidentiality Trumps Mandatory Reporting Laws
    The court noted when religious authorities are exempt from the state's mandatory reporting laws; from page 14 of their ruling:
    In other words, if someone communicates something to their clergy and expects that information to remain confidential, that clergy member is not required to report that information to authorities or anyone else.
    Jehovah's Witnesses Promise Confidentiality to Congregants
    The decision by the state justices referred to statements made by Dave Chappel,¹ "a Jehovah’s Witnesses Service Department elder designated by the Watchtower and CCJW [The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses] boards of directors to serve as their representative in this litigation":

    In short, Chappel argued that congregants in the religion are promised that things discussed with elders remain strictly confidential. Chappel used this promise of confidentiality as a legal argument against requirements of reporting child sex abuse to the authorities.
    The Deception Over "Confidentiality"
    There is a problem with this so-called promise of confidentiality, however. The 2010 edition of "Shepherd the Flock of God," the handbook used by Jehovah's Witness elders, chapter 7, paragraph 15, says:

    These instructions are repeated in the 2019 versions of the "Shepherd" book, in chapter 15, paragraph 15.
    In other words, these so-called promises of keeping things confidential are rubbish. Elders are outright instructed to share things said during judicial committee cases with other elders, the circuit overseer, and the branch office as they see fit, without informing the "wrongdoer."
    I'm not a lawyer so I have no input as to how this information affects any legal case, if at all. However, set that aside; from a moral point of view Jehovah's Witnesses were, at the very least, downright deceitful in their arguments. They don't ensure confidentiality during the judicial committee process, even instructing elders to use someone's name in certain discussions and to not tell that person that they'll be sharing their supposed confidential information.
    Whatever anyone's legal arguments and outcome of any court case, there is no doubt in my mind that Jehovah's Witnesses continuously fail child sex abuse victims in their religion. They keep the secrets of molesters, fail to warn parents, fail to notify authorities, fight victims in court, and say whatever they can to protect their assets over their children.
    I'm heartbroken over how the court's decision must make those victims feel, and knowing that the case was reversed based on a dishonesty obviously doesn't make things any easier to accept.
    *** ***
    ¹It's my understanding that the person's name was Douglas, not Dave.
    *** ***
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This came through to me today, so I thought I'd share it. 
    Whilst I don't fully agree with massive payouts to victims (or lawyers), I do agree with a payout of a reasonable amount accompanied with an apology from the Org. It never puts the wrong, right. It never can. But it would give the Victim a closure and a sort of 'contentment' of actually being believed. 
    Yes i know that lawyers and solicitors rub their hands greedily for their financial gain, but that must be on both sides i would think. Or do the GB's lawyers do it out of love ? 
    One thing this article does point out for sure, is that there is no confidentiality within JW Org, they just share the secrets amongst themselves. Hopefully more brothers and sisters will gain a better conscience and report any wrongdoings to Police and Authorities as it still seems that Elders are exempt from doing so. 
  5. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Kosonen in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    @Arauna I know that some amount of members of "christian" and muslim religions practise spiritism and sorcery, just as some amount of their members are stealing, sexually immoral and commiting other various sins. But the point is that both those religions in general condemn those sins including spiritism. 
    But who is the biggest proponet of moral decay in today's world? Which organized group or society has been directly promoting sin the past 100 year? That would be the mother of all disgusting things. Can you tell which society has been spearheading to normalize homosexuality and other disgusting sins the past 100 years? 
    It is surely not the religions. But they have to different degrees also fallen for the presure from Babylon the Great.
    So the religions are not the source of all the disgusting things but, they have fallen victims to Babylon the Great to different degrees. 
     The Bible talks about many different symbolic prostitutes. So we have to figure out what each represent. Individual christians are also warned in James 4:4:
    Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God.
    An other characteristic of Babylon the Great is according to Rev. 18:24 that it is the cause of wars and killings of christians: "Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
    Well during our life time we have not seen any serious mass killings of christians in the Western world. But the Revelation book warns that an hour of testing will finally come over the whole earth. Rev 3:10. Then it will become more evident who and what Babylon the Great represent. 
    But knowing who are stoking war today help us already to identify Babylon the Great. Check this article published  yesterday on a news site for private investors. That contains clues to identify Babylon the Great.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/war-pigs-are-finally-revealing-themselves-and-just-beginning
     
    Acts 26:14 "And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice say to me in the Hebrew language: ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? To keep kicking against the goads* makes it hard for you.’ 15  But I said: ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said: ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16  But rise and stand on your feet. This is why I have appeared to you, to choose you as a servant and a witness both of things you have seen and things I will make you see respecting me.+ 17  And I will rescue you from this people and from the nations, to whom I am sending you+ 18  to open their eyes,+ to turn them from darkness+ to light+ and from the authority of Satan+ to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins+ and an inheritance among those sanctified by their faith in me.’"
    Tom Herry what do you say about that?
    Here some more interesting things conserning apostle Paul.
    Galatians 1:11  For I want you to know, brothers, that the good news I declared to you is not of human origin;+ 12  for neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it was through a revelation by Jesus Christ.
    Galatians 2:8 for the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations
  6. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in 1914   
    Physical appearance of angels (in various cases that Bible described) was supernatural, or?
  7. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Tom Henry in 1914   
    You opened interesting subject. Single book or letter, that was later collected, making each and separate context. Content of each of them speaking about specific things. Connecting historical events that each and separate book describing, can bring some wider picture about events and persons involved. Human influence was involved in collecting and choosing. If we can make general agreement how SOME books and letters from the past period of time that was created in particular part of Earth, are inspired, we have NOT proof for claim, how collecting and choosing particular books and letters are under inspiration of same holy spirit. We can believe it is.
    WHY and HOW? WT Society teaching for a long time is, how God stopped to inspire people with holy spirit, even own servants in 1 century. In 1 century.
    When people started to collect OT books? Who was "inspired" to collect Hebrew writings in a format we have it today? When people started to collect NT writings? Who was "inspired" to collect Greek writings in a format we have it today? 
    Context of each old writings is at first, context for itself. When people started to connect OT and NT writings in one "context", did they been "inspired" for such work? If they are, than WT Society wrongly claiming how influence of holy spirit stopped in 1 century. We would "expect" how "inspiration, guiding by holy spirit" is needed for such important, vitally important task. What we know is how Pope and bishops in Catholic church done that later on Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 and the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381, which decided what should be included in the Bible, after few decades of debates. 
    WT Society explaining how JHVH is guardian of his Word and how He made influence on what will be chosen as His Word. Can we conclude how Pope and bishops were "inspired" or at least "guided by spirit" when doing that? If yes, what is difference when GB claim today how they are also "guided by spirit"? 
    When we say how we must using "Bible context" to understand Bible, is not that self limiting? Because Bible text was primarily made inside historical context of time and people lived before. Our time and people making new sort of context. For example, blood ban have today very different context than that in days when it was written about. In this issue Bible context didn't bring any explanation or future ban about medical technology and using of blood in this context. Because, primarily Bible context was - not to eat blood as a food. Blood is not a food. This is first and perhaps only Bible context. 
    What GB done about "blood context" is visible in very strange explanations about medico-religious using of "main components of blood" and "blood fractions". It seem how they agree with my idea of not to be self limiting when we talking about "Bible context" :))). But please, how this medical, scientific understanding about blood contributing to religious part of "Bible context"?
  8. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in 1914   
    I also agree with this reality. 
    But I also think it is then necessary to separate the idea that WT promotes. Again we need to ask ourselves: How does "true knowledge of God" multiply?
    Through "progressive knowledge"? In other words, this may mean that errors and accuracy occur through attempts. And so the results change.
    If one can describe the "progressive knowledge" of the Organization in this way, then it has nothing to do with their claim that the "holy spirit leads" GB and Organization with the same method, "progressive knowledge."
    If the holy spirit uses the "progressive knowledge" method, what is it different from the human "progressive knowledge" method? 
    Human using "progressive knowledge" from the beginning. Somehow we can tell it is "invention" made by God when he created human brain.  In Eden, Adam and Eve and their children accumulate their knowledge with years and experience. And in similar way WT Society done about Bible. I found interesting quote:
     “We tend to think human knowledge as progressive; because we know more and more, our parents and grandparents are back numbers. But a contrary theory is possible - that we simply recognize different things at different times and in different ways.”
    No matter what is the case, I am not sure how we should involve "holy spirit" in our mathematics. WT Society and GB claims how they are "guided by spirit", is just moving ordinary human try to understand something with various methods of thinking ("progressive knowledge") on "higher level" to put impression on members, who want to believe how exactly that what WT publications bring them, is/are "God's truth". 
    Change of methods how to gain "progressive knowledge" is visible in "changed approached about type and antitype". Your article say:  In times past, it was more common for our literature to take what might be called a type-antitype approach to Scriptural accounts. The Bible narrative was considered the type, and any prophetic fulfillment of the story was the antitype.... Additionally, it has been found that some of the older explanations about types and antitypes are unduly difficult for many to grasp. The details of such teachings—who pictures whom and why—can be hard to keep straight, to remember, and to apply. Of even greater concern, though, is that the moral and practical lessons of the Bible accounts under examination may be obscured or lost in all the scrutiny of possible antitypical fulfillments. ....Should we conclude that Bible narratives have only a practical application and no other meaning? No. Today our publications are more likely to teach that one thing reminds us of or serves to illustrate another. They are less likely to present many Bible accounts in a rigid framework of prophetic types and antitypes. For example, we can rightly say that Naboth’s integrity in the face of persecution and death reminds us of the integrity of Christ and his anointed. However, we can also be reminded of the faithful stand of many of the Lord’s “other sheep.” Such a clear and simple comparison has the hallmark of divine teaching.* - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015202
    ..hallmark of divine teaching..  What is "divine teaching"? When WT Society had "divine teachings"? Before or after "changed approach"? Who caused "progress"? God, or human need to change what is old and making problem for WT GB theology?
  9. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in JW USA: A Witness responds to Lloyd Evans about JW and global climate change   
    @Srecko Sostar, I think that was Brother Lett doing his own version of Saturday Night Live's Church Lady:
    "Could it be SAAAAAAAAATAAN?!?!?!?!?"

     
  10. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in 1914   
    Well, it was Jesus who spoke to Paul, twice:
    As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
    5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
    “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
    7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink" Acts 9:3-9
    It was Jesus who chose his apostles, Paul being one of the them.  
    One more time that we KNOW of, Jesus spoke to Paul:
    "And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."  2 Cor 12:7-9
     
  11. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in 1914   
    Quote @Anna " I wonder what would cause someone to actually say “this is not what I have signed up for”. Maybe you have a few ideas? "
    Child Sexual Abuse / Paedophilia hidden within the JW Org. 
    Victims of CSA having been disfellowshipped for complaining to Elders. 
    Victims of CSA being shunned for going outside the Org for help.
    Immoral, dishonest lawyers being used by the GB to tell lies in court cases. 
    The GB exalting themselves above the other Anointed. As it seems the complete remnant was the F&DS but now it's only those 8 Men. 
    The GB suggesting that the rest of the Anointed 'keep quiet and do as they are told' by the GB / Elders of congregations.
    The failed 'prophecies' of the JW Org. (1975 being one) 
    The misuse of scriptures. Superior Authorities being one. 
    The hypocrisy of the GB / Org advising people to read their own Bible, BUT not to have their own thoughts on scriptures.
    The statement by one of the GB that 'God and Jesus Christ trusts us' whilst admitting finally that they are NOT inspired and do get things wrong. 
    The list could be endless of course, as the GB are so puffed up with themselves, and make so many stupid videos and make up new rules as they go along. One such, that if a man and a woman spend a night in the same house they will be accused of fornication.... Strange in this day and age but if two men or two women spend a night in the same house I doubt they will be accused of homosexuality.  
    And then it seems they are begging kids to give their ice cream money to the Org, whilst the Org is running big business project under different names. IBSA Properties London is one of them. 
    Enough for now Anna ? 
     
  12. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Shiwiii in Jehovah's Witnesses and The Supreme Court of the State of Montana, September 2019   
    This is disgusting! So if doctrine states that killing someone on the third Tuesday of the month is ok, then would this also be allowed as well? 
    The good thing about this though is that it is a great witness as to the practices and policies within this organization, and those who are curious will see this and think long and hard if it truly is an organization being used by God. Would a loving God want child abuse covered up? Would a loving God want it hidden because men made up a doctrine to get away with it?   
  13. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in 1914   
    It doesn't matter if .... we will looking on this doctrine as of minor importance :))) and if that WT explanation have no significance and influence on some other WT explanations :))
    I am in late 50's, perhaps you too. We are "younger" .... definitely  :))))
  14. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in 1914   
    As I'm not inspired of Holy Spirit I can't answer that question. The Revelation of course was inspired as basically it would not exist otherwise. But as to whether all of Paul's writings were inspired, I don't know.  
    My point was though that I don't think Paul saw his letters as being inspired when he wrote them. He wrote in a rather blunt and direct way. 
    @Srecko Sostar  has some good points / questions about the 'gathering together' of the writings of the Greek / NT. I don't have memory, though i would once have known, about whom gathered Greek writings together. I think @Srecko Sostar has written that it was the Catholics that gathered those writings together and he asks, 'Did those people have the guidance of Holy Spirit' to collect the correct writings together. I've heard of other writings that were not included.  
    But I'll repeat again, that scripture in 2 Timothy 3 v 16 saying 'All scripture is inspired ... '  was written before some of the other Greek writings. And as JWI pointed out, when in context it proves it refers to the Hebrew Scriptures. So if the GB / W/t / JW Org pretend that it refers to the whole Bible then that is being dishonest. I've known JWs use it to mean the complete Bible and of course most people who haven't studied the Bible will not know. However it shows dishonesty. 
  15. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in 1914   
    You opened interesting subject. Single book or letter, that was later collected, making each and separate context. Content of each of them speaking about specific things. Connecting historical events that each and separate book describing, can bring some wider picture about events and persons involved. Human influence was involved in collecting and choosing. If we can make general agreement how SOME books and letters from the past period of time that was created in particular part of Earth, are inspired, we have NOT proof for claim, how collecting and choosing particular books and letters are under inspiration of same holy spirit. We can believe it is.
    WHY and HOW? WT Society teaching for a long time is, how God stopped to inspire people with holy spirit, even own servants in 1 century. In 1 century.
    When people started to collect OT books? Who was "inspired" to collect Hebrew writings in a format we have it today? When people started to collect NT writings? Who was "inspired" to collect Greek writings in a format we have it today? 
    Context of each old writings is at first, context for itself. When people started to connect OT and NT writings in one "context", did they been "inspired" for such work? If they are, than WT Society wrongly claiming how influence of holy spirit stopped in 1 century. We would "expect" how "inspiration, guiding by holy spirit" is needed for such important, vitally important task. What we know is how Pope and bishops in Catholic church done that later on Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 and the First Council of Constantinople in A.D. 381, which decided what should be included in the Bible, after few decades of debates. 
    WT Society explaining how JHVH is guardian of his Word and how He made influence on what will be chosen as His Word. Can we conclude how Pope and bishops were "inspired" or at least "guided by spirit" when doing that? If yes, what is difference when GB claim today how they are also "guided by spirit"? 
    When we say how we must using "Bible context" to understand Bible, is not that self limiting? Because Bible text was primarily made inside historical context of time and people lived before. Our time and people making new sort of context. For example, blood ban have today very different context than that in days when it was written about. In this issue Bible context didn't bring any explanation or future ban about medical technology and using of blood in this context. Because, primarily Bible context was - not to eat blood as a food. Blood is not a food. This is first and perhaps only Bible context. 
    What GB done about "blood context" is visible in very strange explanations about medico-religious using of "main components of blood" and "blood fractions". It seem how they agree with my idea of not to be self limiting when we talking about "Bible context" :))). But please, how this medical, scientific understanding about blood contributing to religious part of "Bible context"?
  16. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in 1914   
    Quote @Arauna Every person will only be accountable for him/herself.
    This should be true. But if a person is not a JW, or if a person was a JW but has since left the JW Org because they no longer believe the JW teachings, or because they have decided that JW Org is 'unclean', then according to the GB / JW Org, that person had 'no chance' anyway. 
    Because the JW teaching is that one MUST BE a Baptised JW to 'be saved'.
    So do you believe that, as you say 'Every person will only be accountable for him/herself.' ?
    Or do you believe it depends on whether you are a Baptised JW or not ?  Or both ? 
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote "there are people on this forum who do not use scripture in context ..."
    Ever since Chapter and Verse of the Bible has been numbered, they have been used out of context. 
    It sometimes makes me think that the devil was involved in such numbering. 
    The only time it is in context is when the 'book' / 'letter' / writing is read from start to finish. Just taking a scripture out of a letter of Paul for instance, makes it out of context against how it was originally written. 
    A prime example of taking scripture out of context is the 2 Timothy 3 v 16 " All scripture is inspired of God... "  Written in 65 (NWT), so written before 1, 2, 3, of John and before Revelation, and Paul would not have thought his writings as scripture. Add to this that a Bible complete had not be constructed at the time. 
    However the JW Org use that scripture in Timothy to refer to the whole Bible as being inspired, where as it would seem that Paul would have been meaning the Hebrew Scriptures. 
    So when you talk about out of context, you can easily apply that to your GB and it JW Org. 
     
  17. Downvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Alfred Shea Addis in 1914   
    When G. Jackson explained before ARC how every JW in the World has own Bible and individual power for understanding/reasoning, which allowed him/her to not listen and obey what GB released, thought in printed way, video way or e-way, because that somehow contradict to his/her understanding/conscience..... does he talking about great and/or small matters or he speaking about some other sort of valuation about things/subjects that coming from GB?? 
    "Causing contentions". Do you have in mind only public contentions between two or more persons, or you allowing also internal contentions - inside person?! 
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in 1914   
    When G. Jackson explained before ARC how every JW in the World has own Bible and individual power for understanding/reasoning, which allowed him/her to not listen and obey what GB released, thought in printed way, video way or e-way, because that somehow contradict to his/her understanding/conscience..... does he talking about great and/or small matters or he speaking about some other sort of valuation about things/subjects that coming from GB?? 
    "Causing contentions". Do you have in mind only public contentions between two or more persons, or you allowing also internal contentions - inside person?! 
  19. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Kosonen in 1914   
    Generally said, all teachings that are not approved by God and Jesus are "dangerous" in various levels of danger. Because such teachings not bring people closer to more proper view, perspective on things (i would avoid wording as "closer to truth"), but doing contrary. 
    Ezekiel book 3:18,19
     
  20. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in IBSA, ORIGINAL INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS.   
    To add to the confusion:
    Corporations outside the United States
    International Bible Students Association
    The International Bible Students Association (IBSA) is a corporate not-for-profit organization used by Jehovah's Witnesses in the United Kingdom for the production and distribution of religious literature. Its stated purpose is "to promote the Christian religion by supporting congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses and others in connection with their spiritual and material welfare in Britain and abroad within the charitable purposes of the Association."[22]
    The IBSA was founded in 1914 as a corporation of the Bible Students by Charles Taze Russell in London, England, and was the first legal corporation representing Russell's ministry in Europe. The Watch Tower Society stated in 1917 that the IBSA, along with its Pennsylvania and New York based corporations "were organized for identical purposes and they harmoniously work together."[23] Other similarly named corporations operate in various countries to promote the interests of Jehovah's Witnesses.[24]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporations_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses
     
    Also... https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/24472/watchtower-society-evil-slave-proof
     
     
  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in 1914   
    Excellent!
  22. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in 1914   
    @Anna  said  "Oh really? Well they are not holding mine, and I am sure I am not the only one whose hand they're not holding."
    Oh dear. You can see the words that i made bold. 'an elder' 'telling us how to think'. But dear Anna choose to pick the word she wants to play with.  Elders telling congregants how to think goes along with that first scripture about being obedient and submissive or in fact being domineered and giving in under pressure. 
    This can be applied to talks given in KH or at Assemblies. Congregants are expected to take all of it as being 'from God' and therefore being expected to submit to every bit of it.  To the point, and unfortunately I can't quote perfectly but, something about congregants being obedient even if the order given seems unreasonable. 
    There we are Anna, I've just done to you as you did to me. I think it's called dissecting a conversation. 
    Have a good day. 
     
  23. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to 4Jah2me in 1914   
    Are you saying this scripture is wrong?
    @Anna  I think you know what I said, but I will repeat it. THE SCRIPTURE IS MISUSED. 
    Anyone could use it. The Pope or an Archbishop. The scripture itself is not wrong, it is the use of the scripture by those not having authority from God or Christ. That includes the GB and Elders. 
    A well known example of this is obviously the Elders telling victims of Child Sexual Abuse, NOT to go to the police or authorities 'because it would bring shame on God's name and the Org'. 
    We could also show the misuse of this scripture, as at the time the congregation of JWs were told that the early 1970's was going to be Armageddon and they were told to be ready and to step up the preaching work. So congregants were obedient and submissive and sold their homes and left their jobs and preached full time. And then ................. oh dear. 
    The opposite of submissive is domineering which seems suitable for the GB and the Elders.
    And the Greek word that is translated 'submissive', in the Interlinear is actually 'yielding'. And yielding means 'giving way under pressure'.  
    So the GB / JW Org use that scripture to show congregants how to :- 'give way under pressure' to a domineering GB and their Elders.  
    Now I hope that explains it clearly enough for you. 
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Quote @Anna  Ahh, the faults of the GB. Well this too has been brought out many times, that faults and mistakes will will happen, just as they did with Jesus’ disciples.
    Did Jesus or the disciples ever put a date on a prophecy and then it didn't take place ? 
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote @Anna  Matthew 18:15-17 "  “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault* between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.16  But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony* of two or three witnesses every matter* may be established.17  If he does not listen* to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen* even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector"
    So when exactly do the Elders 'speak to the congregation' and when does the wrongdoer get to listen to the congregation ? 
    Matt 18 v 17 If he does not listen* to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen* even to the congregation ........... 
    The Elders form a committee and things are dealt with 'behind closed doors'. Now according to the Matthew scripture that is going against the things written, because it clearly states to take matters to the congregation, and, to let the wrong doer have conversation with the congregation over the matter. 
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  24. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in 1914   
    Generally said, all teachings that are not approved by God and Jesus are "dangerous" in various levels of danger. Because such teachings not bring people closer to more proper view, perspective on things (i would avoid wording as "closer to truth"), but doing contrary. 
    Ezekiel book 3:18,19
     
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from 4Jah2me in 1914   
    Generally said, all teachings that are not approved by God and Jesus are "dangerous" in various levels of danger. Because such teachings not bring people closer to more proper view, perspective on things (i would avoid wording as "closer to truth"), but doing contrary. 
    Ezekiel book 3:18,19
     

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