Space Merchant

As long as it isn't Universal basic income (UBI). Governments are trying to get their hands into Crypto after the FTX/SBF situation. Aside from Crypto, gold and silver are notable assets people are collecting as we speak. The US dollar is on the decline, but people have enough time to reap what they can get before it goes down further. So I do not see the reason for any faith group to go about it differently when it is still money to be used as a tool in whatever they are doing. It does not rule out the idea that some individuals may think different because they have little to no knowledge of Crypto. Just be careful with your money, in whatever form it might be, with this woman:

@Audrey Kennedy-Tripp Anytime. This is why I always encourage people to do the research themselves as to always read for context. The more people that know the better and it also shuts down a lot of back and forth. As per the letter, if @Witness knows this person, it should be wise to direct the person to information about the history of the Bible itself, granted, that history exceeds far more than history of faith communities because of how we came to have the book that has become the cornerstone of faith and an insight to learning of the True God.

@Moise Racette Indeed, as for the Constitution, the only entities that have their eyes on it is the ACLU and the United Nations. No doubt some people in government also, but those are the only two that had attempted to make some moves specifically against the first and second amendment. In the censorship battle of things, their underlings tend to be winning, even recently with something breaking yesterday evening. All and all, this instance will be the same as it was years ago. Build up for the day, people realizing it can be a problem and speak against, cast out by fellow EXJWs, when the action does take place, tomfoolery ensues and should someone attempt to stop it, they blame JWs, but if it is one of them, then death threats. The risk of breaking chapter 13 and infiltrating and disrupting a religious gathering, will be followed with heavy backlash by not just some among them, by people in the area who do not like such activity. they become predictable in terms of their evolution. Meanwhile, Trinitarians and atheists who "support and grift off of them" sit back and kick their feet up to watch the show, as long as they are not involved, the consequence falls on the latter instead of them.

@Audrey Kennedy-Tripp But now you have a problem. One thing @Witness brought up is the notion of Bible verses/passages being missing and or omitted. The issue is it is more so having to do with the battle against bible tampering that took place for centuries rather than recently popping up for JWs. Among the Trinitarians there are KJV-Onlyist who swear by the translation, not realizing some errors made it into Scripture, so you have Strong's and Concordances to make the correction, it also results in people, even JWs, produce revised versions of the Bible to avoid non bible canons. That notion does not need to be in a letter because it is widely known of such an issue and quite elementary when one does research. One thing can be said, a lot of people died in the most brutal fashion in the Bible tampering war to defend the only known truths of the Holy Book so people can read it today. If it were not for them, we might not even have a Bible today and even if we did, we'd be reading from Scripture that did not line up with what is true. Perhaps in JWFacts' case, we'd have a Trinitarian and or Creed orientated Baptism. That being said, this is why lone Christians who are not as adept, should be very very VERY careful because Mainstream Christendom can easily take someone, and this has been the case for many years, a good chuck of EXJWs have been taken already.

There isn't a contradiction, mainly if you read for context instead of quoting without a thought in the world. The first part mentions from a 1966 article that the dedication and or declaration is with God, all organized Christians are indeed with God should they go down that route. The 2017 article mentions the symbolism of baptism as a declaration of God, the only added notion if God's organized Christian followers with the same goal in mind, not to mention, what transpires on the day of one's baptism in that faith. Both instances, a person who is baptism, they do these things in their faith community, they do everything and anything to be right with YHWH totally, example, the notion of the Commission, which, I am sure they are doing, right now. Something you should be doing but refuse to do so, despite Christ commanded the Commission. The irony is where you quoted this from, JWFacts, they lean towards support for the Creed/Traditional version of Baptism that was NOT practiced by the Christians, such as, the Baptism in the Trinity Doctrine. Especially concerning Matthew 28:19, which is often used as a weapon against any Anti-Trinitarian. It also goes on to take shots at immersion, mocking where one should be Baptized, disregarding the fact the Mikveh that predates it speaks volume. Although the definition is a general one, this is what it noted by them - Baptism refers to a person’s being submerged in water and coming up out of it. a That explains why Jesus was baptized in a sizable river. (Matthew 3:13, 16) Likewise, an Ethiopian man asked to be baptized when coming to “a body of water.”—Acts 8:36-40. This is according to Jehovah's Witnesses, however in this sense, this is general to Christianity who do not fall Creeds or mainstream traditions. What is not mentioned by some is that Baptism is also a Death unto Life (root)type of deal, in which when one chooses this path, they are intertwined with God's Will and Purpose just as Jesus was when he was on earth. So anyone who is of God and is baptized does join his community of organized Christians vs that of man's version of it, which was ultimately refuted by the notions of the Bible and the Didache combined, especially towards the Anti-Pauline type of people. Also regarding those 2 articles, as said before, if anyone reads either of them to the full, it counteracts the claims you make instantly. Again, it is wise to read before mentioning claims and in this, to make an assumption. You really need to be very careful of claims of Atheists and legitimate apostates, especially the ones who lean towards the Triune concept of Baptism. Baptism has always been a public declaration of a sinner's faith, and those who seek it are those who seek salvation from God and Christ. Such persons dedicates his or her life to serving the Most High, adhering to the teachings and taking the Commission very seriously. Especially those who come to take in such knowledge prior to Baptism, learning of who God and Christ is; something of which the Lord himself prayed with one of the few final moments he had with his disciples about prior to hie crucifixion - John 17. Baptism is serious and should not be taken lightly, let alone shouldn't be contradicted, mainly for the symbolism and roots to it, as it is connection to what predates it. You have to prove that those baptized have their faith in man rather than God, hence we already know God technically has a organization, the Christian faith that was established in Pentecost 33 A.D. Baptism 100% makes such persons a member of the Christian faith, obviously before the Creeds and Traditions came forth. Otherwise, simply reading the article would most likely counteract you again. Granted the Christian faith was not made by a man, don't see the problem. Again, if you are going to make claims, you have to back it up. That being said, some EXJWs follow the creeds and traditions, that is a claim that is true, which I brought up before. You never address such things, and even in @Moise Racette and @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp who are in this discussion, I am 100% sure neither of them, myself included, do not favor traditions and creeds to be associated with what a Baptism entails, hence what is noted on JWFacts, in both definition meaning and practice. Example, Baptism of infants/children concerning the Book of Acts, I had this debate a long time ago with a Trinitarian on this forum, and you sided with Srecko who agreed with him, so at least stuff like that had to be address if you want to attest to contractions concerning baptism. Twisting is unwise if other people can read for context quite easily. At the end of the day, God's people, Christians are an organized bunch, does not matter what race they are, their sex, background, etc. They seek to attest to God's purpose and will, as is follow the teachings of the Christ. If they seek baptism, they work towards it, and make the effort to do so. When they reach it, they make a declaration among the community that they will dedicate their lives in service of God and be of his organized body of Christians that is ordained by God and not of man, as it was written. As it was in Jesus' day, as is in Paul's day and later, we stick to this, as is evade any Creeds or Traditions that ARE mad made that has been followed by Mainstream Christendom. Do not twist things as the Trinitarians do. Christians are suppose to discern things and know context, why are you avoiding to do so as a Christian? And that is simply baptism alone, same case for Verses. Passages in the Bible that are authentic and non authentic.

It may be due to what Mainstream Christendom has pushed out, the idea that Excommunication is old and unnecessary, and any opposition to that idea is ultimately ridiculed. even outside of faith, there are some things that could get someone disowned by someone or a group. But like what is said, some people ignore this totally, and often times exaggerated. It also undermines those who if excommunicated are often talked to members of the church to get them back on track on the road to repentance as is those who do communicate with their families still although outside of the faith community, but clearly if someone is actually deemed an apostate and is doing something that they should not, the family's reaction would be negative towards them. Unless such persons avoid that this is an actual thing in the Bible and of the Christian faith. One can even go back in time and Excommunication is what it is. Simply looking it up, which I am sure most can do, will see the same thing, not to mention the fact this church action is not taken by a single person, but a body of persons, a collective to even reach a decision to expel someone, in addition to that, it is also intended for someone to change behavioral or attitude. So going to the US Capitol to challenge that, will not only put an attempted spotlight on Jehovah's witnesses, but the practice itself in Christendom whereas you have those who are for it vs against it; cause conflict. So that alone could cause some big debate and issues in the Religious space and can easily spill over to Jews and Muslims, for if the Trinity Doctrine can spill over other communities, this this too concerning excommunication. True, but often times, such persons end up going to them. Just as Atheists or a Trinitarian can find a Christian in person or online, for EXJWs they'll always look for JWs wherever they might be. The irony is when debate sparks regarding the Bible alone, EXJWs even Trinitarians who show up to egg them on, do not do well against JWs who know their stuff as with any anti-Trinitarian present, when they lose, they will go for their talking points such as 1914, 1975, child abuse, and a list of other things, only to be corrected by others. If one chooses to not be of a faith community so be it, after all, their choice. for some people agree on things and disagree on things. But to dedicate your life to all the wildness and the like, is insanity in of itself; hence the apostasy term and as to why some JWs take caution with some of the most disgruntled ones. Some of these people, sadly enough, took it to the grave. Likewise with heeding warnings, something John should have paid attention to. When Christian give warning for things, and attacked for it, it is usually the people who mock who slowly begin to feel the effects. They haven't so far. And it looks bad when they meet and debate people who are knowledgeable, often times they tend to go for a novice and get them with a lot of gotcha questions and answers, example, on JW's using Jehovah, revised verses in the Bible, etc. I had witnessed a debate take place concerning stuff like abuse, the person who won the debate was very knowledge of the laws of most states and he grilled the EXJW in the debate. As always, the EXJW will state that person is a JW when clearly the person is not. But it seems there biggest weapon is to use emotion to turn mix some truths with falsehood to draw people in. even in my case when I run into these people, they can easily be corrected. Even Muslims had to correct these people, which is very telling.

@Audrey Kennedy-Tripp I often say no one is immune to the imperfections of the world, as is some people. To be immune is a fantasy, but the reality is, no one is, even for Christians, including JWs. This is why a community need to learn how to safeguard itself. Yes, to think an area is safe, but at the same time at least hold on to hand on solutions to prevent issues down the road. Some listen and apply, others do not, but at the end of the day, it is up to the people to apply these things. Any institutions can issue something or say something, but the people are the ones to apply. At the same time, such solutions should be something to bridge a common action, but to rule it out totally will only result in more problems. It has been say many many times here, some who coin issue, do not apply it, even joke about it, such as what Srecko did. The good thing, is that those who do listen actually are better protected than some within their own community. At the end of the day, the world's imperfections can only be cleansed by God and his Christ, the only thing man can do is try it's best to prevent some instances and or figure out a way to deal with the aftermath, as for man, cannot eradicate imperfections.

@Witness There isn't much of an altering concerning Westcott & Hort itself, in regards to roots, Strong's, etc. We've been through this time and time again. This is why it is a problem to rely on your own understanding vs the Bible itself. This goes for some verses alluded to that indicates who Jesus is. So you really can't challenge the NWT on altered verses unless you can prove any changes in Concordances; granted this is the case, even other Christians who know of this Bible also challenge people, specifically Trinitarians, in this regard, i.e. like Acts 7:59. Concerning Baptism, and Matthew 28:18-19, Baptism symbolizes one's dedication to God and to do his will. From what i had seen, no one in the JW faith is baptized to do the will of the faith community, rather, to put forth dedication to what is noted Scripturally, mainly in regards to that passage is in Matthew 28 is about the Commission, a command given by Christ, something most Christians today do not do. It symbolizes dying to one’s former way of life and becoming alive to do God’s will. It should be noted as to why Christians who are organized adhere to the commission, your 1895 article states it. Although there are some who are lone wolves, so to speak, they even acknowledge that majority, a great deal of people, will easily succumb to that of Mainstream Christendom if they tread a path that is not proper. That being said, young ones like this person in the picture knows God well, as is his Christ, and he understands what the Commission entails regarding those who partake, and his case was very similar to mind despite the background differences. If he knows, the latter should be knowing of this too. Never rely on your own understanding.

Does not have much to do with the French, as for the joke that @Matthew9969 brought up, it is a notion targeted by Survivalists type of folks, even the militant ones. The actual remark is a concerning those who tend to survive in bad situations far more longer and or better than the regular folks. For instance, should a battle or some war ends up in either your vicinity and of that of @Matthew9969's, perhaps a terror attack, the down by the river types would be more likely to survive. Something that is legitimate is the gride blackouts, which is a thing and plants blowing to sunder, such an impact, would mostly effect the common folk vs the latter. Likewise with medical needs and the like. This is something Christians would have to be accustomed to when Babylon and the Beast actually make the major moves to attack true believers, especially in Tribulation End Times when they come. Among Ex members of other faiths, as mentioned EXJWs seem to be by far the worse of them all, the only ones who actually wants to shut down a faith community as a whole, which is why even among them, some are against them for going too far. a lot of Ex witnesses, even like @Witness, disregard the fact that some of their own make threats against people, angered some people in the community and a list of other things, such as transpired during that Warwick protest, while at the same time the ANTIFA stuff was going on. There were videos of them also trying to equate JWs to George Soros, which is extremely ridiculous, especially to Truthers who knows Soros very well. The Ex-bible Student however, knew the disgruntled JWs were a threat and called authorities to deal with them, perhaps more so due to some of the EXJWs making jokes about harming and or not trying to kill leaders of the JW faith. At first, the head of the group, the Vast Apostate Army blamed JWs for this and this caused EXJWs to go and harass JWs online and in person, but when it was revealed it was an Ex-Bible Student, who was indeed a sex abuse survivor, they threatened him, fat shamed him, and a list of other things. Some of the people @Witness mentions on here, also threaten this man. Even when the man later clarified himself about seeking better ways to fight child abuse, he was attacked again. Disgruntled ones did everything they could to flag this guy forcing an actual grounded solution for JWs and EXJWs to be wiped away from YouTube. After this, some disgruntled EXJWs tried to cover their tracks, the leader of the protest, who is actually a Paganist (a Wiccan) erased specific videos from that protest to conceal himself. As for random folks who witnessed the raiding of JW churches by these people, they deemed them what EXJWs did as Extremist activity. So it was that bad and this piece of history you would not see any former member of the faith on here ever mention it. Some fail to see that Excommunication has always been an ability the church has. The problem with some folks is they believe it is old school and should not be in use, yet when someone use it, it is a problem. This goes for shunning/ostracized, the church connection is disconnected after that but it has no affect on family ties. Disgruntled EXJWs tend to forget although there is some who are excommunicated, they still speak with and commune with their families. the irony is if anyone says this among them, they are immediately attacked and or cast out. Outside of religion, people do the same via disowning from a group and or company, and we do not see an uproar for that. And that is where they will be meant with problems concerning Excommunication via what the Bible says. Likewise with anything affiliated with law and due process. Although the justice system is somewhat broken and imperfect, in some instances, justice is served. This is also in regards to other stuff. So in regards to them, an attempt in this situation would evidently get the other side feeling as if they are being threatened, for they were threatened already with what happened in Washington DC already. then you have the exchanges between these party paradigms, i.e. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez vs Lauren Boebert. They have no argument against it. I have ran into religious folks to debate the Trinity, often times I run into political folks too. As for suicide it is a critical discussion, but some will try to use such an event to weaponize it against someone or something, even when in most cases, it is vastly different, for example, should a man leave the church to live an immoral life and is wronged by a woman, he commits suicide, ignoring aid from the church prior. Some will see the the history that lead him there, others would say it was the churches fault for not helping. Speaking of suicide, what is very sad today is the governments have affiliates that will now assist one's death to end them, so much so even in Canada, they had ads for such things, which is disgusting. That is what I tried to point out to John Butler a while back, to give such people an inch, they'll take a mile instead. The fact the LGBTQ community is now entering the churches as they did schools is problematic, one of the reasons why these narratives and other ideas is a problem for a Christian families and children concerning the Higher Education system. As is with same sex marriage or relationships. The Bible is very clear on why this is not good. Although you are to respect your neighbors, but there conduct should be called out, mainly in this regard. EXJWs are affiliated with those of the LGBTQ crowd in order to fight against JWs, not realizing that the majority of pedophiles are in such a crowd vs the ones that sadly are in the general public. One of their heroes, Leah Remini, is a huge advocate and supporter of such community. In addition to that former Christians and EXJWs had made videos of Christians out of context to cause other supporters of the LGBTQ community to go after them, saying they are anti-gay for not supporting, not realizing where some stand in regards to respecting a neighbor vs conduct. what truly takes the cake is the Pink Bible some of them use to try and challenge Christians. Although I debated some of these people, never have I seen such a Bible, but it was talked about by some in the past. As of recent, now they want to make God gender neutral and Jesus non-binary. Concerning YHWH and his Christ, for them to attest such to God and his Son, is the highest level of insanity I have not seen in a while. The more they do what they do, it actually proves mental depravity. Luckily some EXJWs do not end up like their disgruntled counterparts. The fact some of them are realizing this is a sign and know going too far is an issue. For instance, concerning Russia, not everyone was a fan of what Russia did, but the disgruntled ones glorified it. So much so even today they still do, such as the Ex-Bethlite that @Witness mentioned before. and from there they spun the Ukraine and JW situation, resulting in more EXJWs turning their back on the community. That said, it is one thing to deal with problems in a faith community, but it is another thing trying to literally wipe out a faith community entirely in a warpath like fashion. the mantra "Destroy The Watchtower for good" is crazy to even say vocally to people in public, and I do not see how one can say that with absolute certainty and conviction. True, but their actions can cause an affect. We all need to be watchful if there is a threat nearby, or what I told John Butler, a Lion, or a Tiger in the field, granted with what was given to him as a warning concerning the UK, it is likely he may be dealing with indirect things as of late although in the past he tried to play it off, a normalcy bias mindset. To be aware of things, we take action. For example, if politicians continue to release criminals such as murderers, violent personnel, druggies, child abusers on to the streets, and you knowing this, you'd take persecutions, and or take action to protect yourself vs that of someone who is unaware, which is akin to the van by the river notion. even for JWs, if they know an area is dangerous, they would not go near it, as is with anyone else, but an unaware, gullible person, who go into the area and will be met with consequence, should a shootout occur, he or she could be caught in the crossfire. That is why Proverbs 22:3 is an example. Some of us however, have a very high situational awareness level though. Another example is like that of the Siege of Jerusalem, whereas some Christians listened and survived to spread the teachings across the Roman Empire whereas those that stayed behind, fell victim to what came to them. It should also be noted that the fact the schools and churches have issues with such people, the police, will not tell them that there are criminals nearby these institutions. So people who take persecution should make note of such things. Indeed, there are lines if crossed results in being a problem. It will also cause some people to be very very upset and angry at the same time. Activism can result in various things, in there case being in pawn on a warpath. If they actually listened to some people, even the Ex-bible Student, there would have been more grounded discussion on certain issues, but that door had since shut, and they refuse to listen. It also does not help if they direct actual threats to schools and churches, more so due to the fact even in their community, there are EXJWs who are abusers themselves and or defend abusers; their space, reddit, is known to have abusers all over the place who can login, so speaking of children will often draw such people in. One of the reasons why I deem protection of children online as vital, even from a Biblical standpoint.

You acted as a subsidiary in regards to some of the things he has said. Concerning when John 17 was of discussion, Christmas, and regarding The celebration of one's birth, so much so as to even link his video, in that discussion, you showed yourself as an affiliated in regards to a practice all Christians should evade. Therefore a Durbinite is often called to those in this regard. Majority of folks are against abortion, however, there are some conflictions that would make some of them shift, even for Durbin and any Durbinite. The whole abortion battle is also deeper than that and is complex, often times akin to other medical issues, some of us also have experienced dealing with such folks ourselves, i.e. having to talk to a teen a while back who was about to be aborted and the parents, in which the doctor insisted that it would result in consequence if a specific action was not taken. The challenge for even Jeff Durbin as is most is when the question of the threat of loss life and rape concerning an infant and or child is interjection in the abortion debate, he's never been addressed such ever in his discussion with anyone who supports abortion. In addition to that, his focus was more so on to planned parenthood instead of going for the head of the snake itself. That being said, Durbinte was coined in that discussion and it will be used now, and often times they have the same M.O. which equates to what @Arauna has alluded to, and you continue to display that now as you did then, the lack of rationality and reasonableness as is the whole reading concerning children vs an adult vs what is said Scripturally of how Christian learn of the teachings (no one starts from lvl 100 at lvl 1). the very reason I explained what that is to her.

It may be somewhat equal in number to the 2017 protest at Warwick, minus a survivor/ex bible student being present. Permits can also be limited to a number of people. That was also the same timeframe of all the ANTIFA, BLM, nonsense that was going on. Since this will be taking place in Washington DC, there is no chance of anyone intervening, especially because of the groups that are out of hibernation, so to speak. The added factor is since the EXJWS want to challenge the constitution in this regard, and among things, the issue of religious liberty, this will get Conservatives involved and all hell will break loose if the ball falls in their court, for instance, most churches do practice excommunication and or have a form of the shunning command (which is not exclusive to religious people only), i.e. affiliates of Drag Queen will automatically be booted from Christian Right churches. It has been seen before how Conservatives react to EXJWs, especially with some folks noted here, such as Pearl Doxsey. Among all former members of faiths, EXJWs are probably more so of a threat because the warpath could get others involved and or indirectly affect them. This is true, some of these politicians will have something to gain, should they do something, but Washington DC is a Blue State. Between both sides, although both crazy, The Democrats are very crazy. That being said, anyone going to protest at the Capitol, in Washington DC, best believe their names, faces and other things will be recorded by officials. Federal law enforcement (The Feds) has used a wide variety of surveillance technologies and can use it against them, even though some will not pose a threat, but any activity that resembles protest, people will be tracked, EVEN if they have permits. It'll also pose a problem later down the road if any individual takes some sort of action. Mainly if they decided to raid a JW Church in the area, which there are several nearby. People in the NY/NJ Borough area did NOT take kindly to that, so with the FBI and the officials watching and that was done, there will be hell to pay. Washington does NOT mess around with church disruption (Chapter 13. Disturbances of the Public Peace - D.C. Law 18-375) so taking that route while being recorded/tracked is a permanent, just ask the MAGA crowd.

And so it begins.... As of recent news... Trans Lives Matter occupies Oklahoma capitol to protest bill criminalizing genital mutilation of minors Transgender rights activists occupied the Oklahoma state Capitol’s rotunda on Monday to protest a push by Republicans to limit so-called gender-affirming care in the state. About 150 people, many holding signs and banners, chanted “Trans lives matter” ahead of a new legislative session in which GOP lawmakers had pre-filed bills aimed at curtailing treatments like hormone replacement therapy... That being said, the alluding often times come early. These build ups as mentioned will render later actions useless, especially when there is a presidential run coming up soon. There will be many meant with unfortunate ordeals in these states, especially if someone is trying to convey something to leaders of a blue state, far more danger is often present than a red state. Especially now since this is AFTER January 6th events which many of us knew something would happen, but not at the magnitude that it did. That ball of snow is rolling down the hill.

Well you're dealing with a Durbinite. A Durbinite are affiliates of the Apologia Church, the religious leader being a charismatic pastor/Elder by the name of Jeff Durbin whereas some members go down this route even if someone is being grounded with them and or neutral. The irony is the statement made was about writing material for 10 year old's, but the hypocrisy is that the latter who adheres to said pastor is known for doing similar, more so, pushing children to protest, disregarding the fact that such an action can pose some problems. That being said, God's concern about those knowing about his Kingdom and his Christ, regardless of how the information is convey, be it simple, basic and or complex. Jesus attest to this too, sadly, some people forget. One of the many delusionary notions of Mainstream Christendom. Some people do not realize that concerning the Bible and or Christianity, not everyone starts from the highest difficulty. Often times, some people do well to take in the basics of core teachings, be it child or adult, then work they're way up. Most Christians know this. For example, Saul warring with against the Ammonites, Moabites, and Philistines, you'd have to go with the basics than move on to intermediate, than onward. Not sure why some people miss this entirely.

@Witness Just next time before using any article, make sure you know what it is about instead of making the assumption. That way people can better understand what is being conveyed so they do not fall for misconceptions. Often times one wrong thing said can lead to a number of issues, for instance, I mentioned the 1975 situation whereas something was said, one side understood it, whereas the other side said something else. Even with things today, for example, I mentioned this woman before, the death of Heather Heyer, which took place in 2017, her death caused opposition groups on both sides to make assumptions which nearly lead to a higher uptick of violence and possibly more beatings and deaths. The Wild Beast itself on that day took action only someone called it out on what they attempted to do while everyone was distracted. And that is just one modern day example. Things of that nature, one needs to be careful - Ephesians 4:25. Those other articles, I read for context, I believe they were posted before, I remember the 1881 one. All persons do not come to a faith community with good intent. Hypothetically speaking, if you had a son who is leading a church, and you support him, and eventually you have about 1,500 congregants, amount 250 of them aren't there for praising God and his Christ, some have intent to sway members of the church, to have some gain, others, to seek to do bad and or manipulate. Often times, whatever regulation or ruling that the church abides by, such persons can twist it to their favor because they themselves know they can easily exploit a Christian due to their ability to forgive. This is why some churches when it comes to certain problems, they are easily dealt with those who seek to do bad because not everyone applies Proverbs 22:3. More so, people in general, succumb to a bystander like effect, the "As long as it does not happened to me" mindset. The wisest thing any faith community can do is to train and communicate with everyone to prevent and or minimize weeds growing among the wheat. Going back to an example, let's say, your son's church community is strong so much so, things of concern is brought up, although some under him may do things differently, solutions will be available to quickly deal with weeds that bother the church. Better to be prepared and ready than be caught in something you did not see coming. If you want a real life example, there is one JW church that stopped a guy who tried to, technically, kidnap his own kids from his wife, whom he divorced before she even became a JW, the people involved were Africans, but had since moved to the states and long story short, he tried to sneak into the church and or hid in the parking lot in attempt to reclaim his kids until he was finally caught and reported thus a RO (sometimes a TRO) was issued by the wife. A RO is a restraining order or protective order, and this is an order used by a court to protect a person in a situation involving alleged domestic violence, child abuse, assault, harassment, stalking, or sexual assault. In the US, there has been a problem with Parental kidnapping also called Parental Child Abduction, which is when a parent keeps their child from the other parent in violation of that parent's custodial rights. So in this sense, a faith community really needs to get their things in order to better support and protect it's community. Sure some will fail in this department, but those who apply all things that is moral, and Bible Principle as to shepherd their flock, they stand a chance whereas some fall short, and in this regard, be able to deal with any weeds quickly and correctly. At least some JWs are aware of things, and apply mainly in America whereas most Americans are gullible and act as bystanders most of the time. I think it would be lesson for people to learn more about the other followers of the Christ (majority of people are only familiar with the first 12, but not realize who Titus, Clement, Jude or Matthias is). I believe because some do not try to learn of such folks, they discredit them. This also goes for students of the Apostles, for things would be a lot different today if they did not speak and defend the Scriptures. We'd all might be either in the faith of Dualism and probably believe apocryphal text to be true. a reality a lot of us are happy NOT to be affiliated with.

@Witness Ok, but regarding that 1895 article you cited, why did you say what you said concerning organization, but the article in question was talking about organizations of the world and how their organization differs from that of God's? Everyone here understands lying is bad as is to use misconceptions as a truth, why does this differ with any article you quote when reading it paints a different story? I see you are quoting from Bible Gateway again, did you read what the topic say on organization? Remember, Christians are organized, an organization, be it chosen or not, they follow the same thing, concerning God's will and purpose, then you have the world organizations, who differ greatly from organized Christians who follow or at least make an attempt to follow what s core. Both @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp and @Moise Racette know that Christians, since the 1st century, were an organized group, with the same goal in mind, as is follow the same command given to them by the Lord, Christ Jesus. This included the follower of Christ himself, Matthias.

I would say outside of it too. Regarding 1914, there were alleged other groups who, although some no longer exist, who came to the same conclusion concerning Jesus. One person in particular I mentioned a while back, an aggressive Bible Student. He isn't so keen of JWs or other Bible students, but he'd speak truth about the Bible and events, although some of his research can be conflicting, others of his findings no longer exist and or is difficult to find. But there were claims that these years mentioned by JWs attest to the world ending. Of course opponents would say otherwise, but when people actually look into the reasoning of those dates, they'll see what is true and what is false. This excludes regular onlookers because to them, they think all religious folks are nuts, but you really can't blame them because of the pastors they had to deal with. The 1975 one is the interesting one because there was never a statement made that the world would end. some former JWs will rely on speculation to prove the claim, but anything they post about it, no mention of a direct statement whatsoever. There was one EXJW who say the same thing, but he accumulated enough insults and death threats to prevent him from posting anything, but sadly, his own kin who did not agree, got him terminated off of YouTube a while back. 1975 was also the one that caused somewhat of a division among the faith, for some assumed the world would end whereas others did not speculate as they did. At the end of the day, imperfections allow people to lean on what they thing vs what is said, thus result in problems. A lesson people should learn but refuse to do so.

@Moise Racette People should always read for context no matter what. this is why when it comes to these articles, no one should simply rely on a quote when the article says otherwise. This is a common problem many people succumb to, mainly when it is tabloids, or big situation, like the proxy war in Ukraine or a China Balloon hovering around Montana. The articles cited, I read a few, tends to go in a different path than what is being said here. Misinformation can go a long way often times, creates problems and cause others to believe the lie. The first casualty of War is always the Truth. Also to @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp's credit, we have to hate what is bad, we always should not be weaponizing what is bad because not only to causes problems, evidently it draws in problematic people into various communities, and faith groups.

I seen Anna's comment, but what you said deems otherwise concerning what a charlatan is even in context. This was directed to this statement [Witness - You're saying that anyone who claims to serve as a priest right now is a charlatan.] Charlatans are known by what fruit they bear that isn't core, be it close or in attempt. this is beyond Jehovah's Witnesses, it is already common knowledge of how the church processes are, how it operated, as is the choosing of people regarding roles, be it they are among the chosen or not. We cannot go about to change what God puts in place concerning order. This isn't the first time we had this discussion. charlatans, can and will overwrite such unfortunate. That is also why the point was made, when in the Greek text we see how people have such roles, to push that point further, this was the case in ancient Israel. Those verses you mentioned, if one draws context, they'll see this too. Jehovah's Witnesses as is anyone who knows about the Firstfruits, recognize those chosen existed before that of pastor Russell himself, beyond most. There is a reason why they speak of Pentecost 33 A.D. with seriousness, even vocally at times within their own community. To a degree they do believe people prior when Bible Students or JWs didn't exist, were among the chosen, but in truth, God picks such persons of the nation. They also know there is but a few left. So you are discrediting Matthias, who is a known Firstfruit? True Christians recognize that Matthias had been a follower of the Christ throughout, the first 3 in a half years of his ministry, he knew who Jesus is and what he had done in that time span. The 70 disciples around that time, he was most likely among them, sent by the Christ to preach the gospel. We no one can forget of ow he was selected by the very people Jesus entrusted the Church too. His history is common knowledge, we should not forget or discredit one of the chosen. Like i said, people take Pentecost 33 A.D. seriously, as is the commission command given. It would be wise to look into the students of the apostles. there is no doubt that they were similar to that of Timothy, Titus, Clement, etc. In their time, they defended the core teachings even in the face of death and perhaps took up more serious opposition than those of old, not from leader of the Jews, but those with an ideology that is outlandish to the true church. they may not be chosen, but they are 100% Christians, stones of the spiritual house, to ignore brothers of old is highly questionable on your part, mainly Polycarp, for his actions, you'd probably be reading from a different bible today, let alone believing something entirely different if he was snuffed out early. You make the claim that what was explained isn't spiritual or biblical based, when it indeed was. The hierarchical structure was of God, professed by some, even Paul. to say otherwise, you'd have to prove it, but that is neigh impossible, mainly due to the fact Jesus entrusted the church to the apostles. @Kosonen communicated with you before. This person was looking for chosen ones within and outside of the JW faith. What is confusing is prior you didn't see Christians, chosen and the non chosen as not an organized people.... But now, you do? Elaborate. As for the rest, you took all of those articles out of context... Again. If anyone were to read them vs what you said, they'll see the context of the article itself. What you state here would yield no type of sense if the article in question says something different. Now only this was recently done here with an 1895 article, you tried this before. It would be wise to read first rather than hold on to a quote whereas a paragraph before or after said quote says otherwise. In example, the last quote you did, you were not aware of the wholly organizations being the Boy's Brigade or the APA that the pastor/watchtower was talking about. I see you mentioned child abuse again, which is totally unrelated to what is being discussed here, and you are quoting this to a person who actually fights child abuse for a very long time now, vocal about it here. As I say time and time again, child abuse is everywhere, no one is immune to it, the real way to combat it is via education and solutions, the very ones even some EXJW called for but your people shut it down. Child abuse is contagious to the point even EXJW and those who support them were found out to abuse kids themselves while at the same time going after JWs for the same issue, one in particular who possibly went to overseas to deal with more than just women there (Srecko was silent when I asked him that), another defended an abuser because of her appearance, another who is affiliated with an man who nearly became an abuser on YouTube, but was reinstated on the platform, the list goes on. To even mention this here is technically weaponizing abuse, something I was critical about to John Butler about. Going further, no EXJW even truly cares about aiding children because for years now they never even applied what CSA prevention states, nor do they come to a grounded discussion about the issue, luckily, there are some who actually speak with JWs on a neutral ground about how to help, and solutions were brought for the betterment of a community. It be best to keep it in it's own thread because if that continues, I will start attesting to things I found out about EXJWs within the 300 days I was out. Like I said, this is something I take seriously, never sling such around loosely like that. You have to be specific on lies. The whole 11914, 925, 1975 and UN status, etc. has been debunked, even when put in challenge. I remember asking I believe Srecko to prove the JWFacts claim of JWs saying the world will be destroyed in 1975, nothing came up. Likewise with 1914, or 1925 granted the book can be read for context. As for the UN, no charter or registration signature exist. Because of these notions by disgruntled EXJWs, being used as pawns by Trinitarians, pulled an Deus Ex on JWs, so people would believe the notions until they research it. this brings me back to the middle aged man who made a video about 1975 only to be terminated by force by EXJWs, as is with the Warwick situation back in 2017, an abuse survivor and Ex-bible Student stopped the meet up at the park. Some even became finical pieces for some known EXJWs such as Gonzalez. Therefore, you have a situation: JWs, reformed EXJWs vs disgruntled JWS. The base is dying out, so that is why they are chancing Washington DC, not realizing they are the pawns. In all honesty, anyone can read up on this things. @Audrey Kennedy-Tripp has her points, some religious leaders tend to be out of touch, but surely in such things like this, you can be justified as an enemy by any onlooker who reads for context. It also relates to inspired prophets vs non inspired prophets too, which can determine false prophets. Speaking of Trinitarians, a lot of your people gave in to Francis Chen, even when given the warning. Pastor Chen was supporting both the Pope who is the front for the UN's conquest for peace concerning religion. So which is it? God has an organization now, or not? statements made here, differ from before. They're regulars. Regular Christians, even chosen, are non inspired prophets who can be guided by the holy spirit when they ask for it. No one on earth is an inspired prophet with miraculous gifts of the spirit. Plus, we have the Holy Good Book itself, completed. You have to prove the lies if they deviated from core teachings. So far when it is JWs and reformed JWs vs disgruntled EXJWs, the first group is correct. That being said, please read those articles in full. If you quote them and give your own commentary, it can easily be countered when someone finds and reads the articles themselves online somewhere. Like I said, anyone is free to agree or disagree with Jehovah's Witnesses, but it is unwise to use misinformation and falsehood to prove a case. After all these years, people have found counters, as is the truth in context.

With all the stuff that is going on with Twitter and censorship, I would not be surprised if somehow or someway, this gets erased. People of status have power and often times they use it to hide stuff like this, one of my rivals, a friend concerning what we are trying to stamp out, she was censored recently, along with other people on Twitter and YouTube combined. a lot of the stuff I said have been censored as well.

@AudreyKT Robert King is a misguided Christian, who in the past sought after converts. I had debated several of his followers in the past, early on in my debating days, some of his followers are interconnected with Francis Chen, another problematic preacher who supported what Babylon had done in 2016, essentially, eating from the festival table of Babylon, with those who are seeking the conquest of peace concerning all religions. @Moise Racette Yes, when the pastor spoke of organizations, if anyone read the article itself, 1895 Zion's Watch Tower, the very one @Witness cited, he was talking about the organizations of the world, collective wise. In the article he states to avoid such organizations, rather, to meet as a family of God, to recognize each member as brethren who who profess forgiveness of sins through faith in the precious blood and who show by their daily life that they are striving against sin and choose honored servants from among them. When they choose, the articles says to seek not one's own will or glory, neither that of other brethren, but the will and glory of God only, remembering the foregoing considerations as one find them to be scriptural. Several paragraphs to the citation @Witness coined, one can see a few wholly organizations the article mentioned by name, one of them being the The Boys' Brigade is an international interdenominational Christian youth organization. The article mentions the governor of California made reference to the Boy's Brigade, that neither it nor any other organization could be allowed to drill and carry weapons, unless first they had sworn allegiance to the State. Prior to that the article mentions The A.P.A. organization (I'm guessing it is the American Psychological Association), in it, it says the following: We are poor in this world's goods, but we can give a little; and that mite I think should be used in the Master's service. One of the sisters, a dear, good woman, was speaking, a short time since, about an organization, known as the A.P.A., and declared her belief in its principles and her intention of contributing to its support. I tried to show her that, even if nothing could be said against the order from an earthly standpoint, she was running for the prize of the high calling; that her health, time, money and all the other blessings she enjoys come from and belong to the Lord, and should be used in his service; that we are dead to this world, its pursuits, enjoyments, hopes, organizations; and that if we give money or influence to support worldly things, we are not living up to our consecration. Of course there is more to it, but I clipped it down by searching the quotations, but in this regard when the article itself was talking about wholly organizations, evidently, it speaks of the ones of the world, whereas concerning Christians who follow the True God and his Christ, it puts emphasis on an organized brotherhood of brothers, and sisters, who are on the same paged in an organized fashion. One comes to that understanding via reading the article itself, rather than sacrifice the whole thing for a small quote or a single word, as is ignoring the context; this can pose as a problem because people can fool others easily. How anyone missed this, such as not reading the article, in speculation, it was done on purpose, willfully. It should be noted any affiliates of JWFacts and or other, never mentions this, thus suffering from what the MSM has been doing for years to purpose use small quotations without knowing the context of whatever article or story, even event, that is taking place and or had past already. In short, there are organizations, of people and groups, in regards to God and his Christ, there is an organization of able bodied Christians who are committed to the will and purpose of God our Father, and heed not only his command, but that of his son, Christ Jesus.

Research is always key, but I do find crazy is back then most Christians in the 19th century did not have all knowledge, but present day they do, and often times, any opposition will use the past against them without realizing that Restorationist operate in a way that after learning they change over time. Sure there were expectations, but learning allows people back then to understand that they have to face reality, in terms of what God's word is truly conveying, despite that fact some Christians ended up accepting Creeds. Same case with pervious centuries, especially the fight for bible translation.

It seemed like you were saying otherwise when everyone knows the latter to be true. A Charlatan is someone who falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill but lacks it and do not change said knowledge and never admit to mistake and thing they're spotless; a fraud, i.e. saying they're Jesus reincarnate, saying they have the ability to speak in tongues, have visions, etc. Charlatans also have an end-game, an agenda, which differs totally from what God's Word professes, as well as make false claims, and they tend to dwell in narcissism. I see the term Priest, but the general priesthood (and or chosen) is a teaching in Christendom. These people are authorized by Christ entrusted in the church who are of a clergy, the other option is simply baptism makes someone an ordained ministers, or simply put, a baptized Christian. Translation often times shift the terms around by some. Going with the term regarding priests, if they're baptized then they're ordain Christians in their faith, it is said that in regards to them, all baptized members are considered ordained ministers. All members take on the missionary work, the Commission. Not all ordained Christians are chosen. Regarding anyone who truly seeks or even attempts to follow the True God and his Christ, all are of the stones of the house. Those who are priestly and or of priesthood is also associated with the term Presbyterate. It is not uncommon for regular Christians and the chosen to work together, I myself working with the late Solider of God, although the roles are different, we both follow and do this for Christ when it comes to dealing with Babylon, aiding the children, being aware of and warning people about the beast, etc. Not sure with where you are going with this one because in the 1st century, we seen people like the Apostles, such as Paul choose people, teach and or had given them a role of some kind in the church. Example, after Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus (Matthew 26:14-16), and later committed suicide after realizing what he had done (Matthew 27:5), we see that a man named Matthias was chosen among them, Jesus was not present obviously (Acts 1:26), so these people knew what was entrusted to them to even do these things, Apostle Paul being an example. Timothy was essentially a student and disciple to that of Apostle Paul, so he trusted him with the Churches/places of worship he was associated with, likewise with Titus, a Greek convert. Then there's Apostle John's students, Ignatius and Polycarp, who were of the Church, although not mention in the Bible, granted the Scriptures had since completed, but their actions and accounts are noteworthy. We see it was men, doing these things, and these men all knew of and did their best to follow the Christ in a world that is cruel, especially with what happened to Matthias and Polycarp. Further details from the Greek text even suggests that around those days, especially Paul's there was the hierarchical pattern of the Early Christian Church was mainly governed by Apostles and the Elders, etc. with designated functions/roles in an organized fashion, in this case, organization of Christians in purpose and efforts, as the Bible puts it, orderly. So an opinion of yours? So far, I simply see them as imperfect like the rest of us granted they do make up for mistakes, but I haven't seen them or heard from anyone that they are usurpers, it is also a contradiction because of the strict adherence to the Commission, if what you say is true, there would not be a need for Jehovah's Witnesses to preach to anyone at all, and it would mean that these men actually have an agenda instead of what was tasked to all Christians who knows of the Messianic age. Plus, they're care for their own would be non existent, for instance, EXJWs have said that after the Russian situation, these men care about the money and not their people, but from the looks of it, even from my contacts inside Russia, it is quite the opposite. Then there is Ukraine, they've taken more of their people out compared to the opposition. It also does not make sense that they're collecting Bibles if that were the case. So there has to be proof of a usurping because that is a bold opinion. Can you give an example of how chosen silence their own if they all communicate with each other? Plus that statement is a parallel between you and @Kosonen, who he himself knew he is chosen. That being said, to go back to the other point, Christians are indeed organized and or within an organization of a sort, and there is roles for each members within said Church, be it if they are chosen or not, men or women.

Unfortunately, @AnnaNana is correct, there are some people among the fold who do play the role of a Charlatan, seen them, interacted with them for many years now, one in particular who also seeks challenge, who defends Creeds rather than truth. Especially those who claim things such as having gifts like that of Paul and others. Some are knowing of their deeds, others are misguided and ignorant. Apostle John's students had to put up with such as well. So, it is a problem. People need to be taught to avoid them, as is how to stand against them. The majority of these people are already in Babylon, who being subdued by the Harlot, we seen this in 2016 and onward with a massive religious movement who seeks a conquest of peace within confines of UN involvement, it makes it easier to scope them out. Because of the fog, people do not know who is who; who is with God and who is against. This is why one has to apply 1 John 4:1. Mainly to people who enter a community, even of faith. These are of the Scriptures, not of my own words or context. There is indeed a hierarchy and True Christians were, as is today, indeed organized, mainly regarding the Commission. The people make up that temple, remember, the Spiritual House, those of Christ are the stones. This also relates to the spirit beings associated in heaven, with the Most High being the highest in the hierarchy itself, even above us. You really can't go around that, mainly when allegories and examples concerning Adam and Eve are also clear in the Greek text and or with God. The topics on biblegateway makes this clear with it's examples concerning such.

It reminds me of the China chimera situation, some people tend to play God, in this sense.

You were being simplistic - that is where you need to be careful, you said you looked up the word with 0 hits, not realizing, remember, many people, myself is very vocal on God's Order of things, we had this discussion before. We cannot ignore the fact that is does things in an orderly fashion, likewise to those who follow the Christ. This has nothing to do with being condoned or not, previously you made notions to the term organization. Be it if a group is of God or not, even in a non religious standpoint, if there is a collective, with the same purpose or goal in mind, they are organized, essentially an organization, if you read the topics on Biblegateway, the ones from the screenshot, this should be obvious. This is true, but you have to realize, even among True Christians, we do things orderly, and often times in an organized fashion as members of the body of the Christ. Those of us who knows about the Commission, this command given by the Christ, we are organized to do such action by the very person whom God sent, the very person who entrusted the church to those that followed him. A Hierarchy is a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority. Unfortunately, this was a thing even in the 1st century, of how Christians operated. We had this conversation before because of what Pearl concluded to which was leaning towards a feministic view concerning how Church operates in terms of religious office, I took pity on most in regards to that because a lot of folks adopted what transpired in Christianity around World War II era, which exist today now by most of Christendom. That being said, as mentioned before, Christians were always organized, God is the order of all things and is always orderly, and there was always a Hierarchy, i.e. if you lived around the time Apostle John was alive or at his oldest, surely Polycarp would be a Deacon or a Servant, such portions of the Hierarchy, would not be given to you, if anything, a minister. That is how things were then, and should be. Everyone are members in the body of Christ, but the roles are obvious even from a Bible standpoint. At least by this basic notion some people today, even early Christians, going by the Didache and the Bible, understood this too.