Space Merchant

@AudreyAnnaNana It depends on the person and the community within the JW church, for instance, an African JW church can do far better than possibly an American one, although the faith is the same, culture and other aspects can fortify said community, for example, I mentioned an African JW church a while back, they do speak on subject matters far deeper in example to help guide the youth to a path that is good, in his case, when his church spoke of imperfections of man, they do speak of disorders, especially the one dealing with abuse. Sensitive topics should be talked about, even if you are of the faith or not, hence, such can act as somewhat of a shield to some people, even children, in most cases. Expelling/Shunning in a cultural sense can differ because there are some sins, serious ones, that can spin a family into disbelief of what was done, for example, A girl, age 22-23 at the time, was essentially saved by her mother, who is a JW. The girl in question nearly went into selling her body online after being persuaded, and her morals were nearly shot. This was the same case with her cousin, who tried to manipulate her into going into this form of immorality and to do it in secret, granted, her cousin, did not really care or took any Bible principles seriously. The girl spoke to her parents and guided her to not go down that path, and did speak with the cousin's parents, who did talk to their daughter, clearly the cousin did not care, nor did she listen, and only said she will keep God, Jehovah first, just to appease her parents. The girl's cousin was later expelled/shun by the church when it was found out not only she attempt to put inappropriate pictures of herself online (possibly to make money), but had sexual relations with someone at her college who thinks the behavior is okay, the only thing she avoided was a pregnancy, for if a child was born in such a situation, it will create more problems. She was evidently shunned by her church, and she still had interactions with her family, but the conversations were very awkward because the family were not only unhappy she was excommunicated, they were unhappy due to what she had done, and nearly got her own family member, the girl involved, in addition, they told her to cut communication with the boy who she had sexual relations with, in turn, the boy did not care and only saw what he had done as another win on his part, which speaks volume on today's society view on sex. About 2-3 years in, this person felt bad about her actions, and what could have been if she actually had a child, then she seek to repent, but when to the girl's family, granted, the girl's father was an elder in the JW church, for any contact she herself ignored from them before this shift in thinking. She was later reinstated, over time, people began talking to her, and she continued to mentally cope and fortify herself after the whole ordeal; for youth at times, do stupid things, often times, can be costly. It is unknown the current state of the cousin today, however, the girl who didn't end up like her cousin, thanked her mother to this day still, although her job prevents her from partaking in the church worship, she is given lessons and examples to research in her own time, and obviously, is given JW publications. That was told my Sunrise Ezekiel, who is currently, a JW, and friends with the girl in question who told him this. If I remember correctly, he said this event unfolded in a Spainish JW church some years ago. Plus, it should be known that a situation like this, how Hispanic families would react. That example resonates with me because of someone close to me who had a similar fate, however, the aftermath was not good. Although she and her family were not as religious, perhaps the father was, they lived off of good principle and morals, bad people got into my friend's end, and the rest made history and the news. The decision to shun, the command itself is given by the Christ, as the example I gave about Gang-Stalkers, if a decision was made to not only expel, but to shun such a person, it will be put into practice, church ties will end, and any other ties with the person, who came for one's son and or daughter to mold them immorality, will be ignored entirely vs, per say, a guy who was expelled for smoking, but later gets help from any head or leader within the church. It would depend on the person and the community's ability to discern and seek this person out in hopes of removing them, at times, even difficult because people can often change when they have some level of authority. So, someone can misuse any ability they have in order to protect themselves and or manipulate others to cover themselves, but such instances are not common, regardless of the church community. But they practiced it themselves. On the contrary, Paul, Peter, and John often communicate with those who held religious office in the churches at the time, in Paul's case, you had Titus, Silas, Timothy, even Clement. These people held religious office over others within the church so they, along with those who aid them in maintaining order in the church, will use any ability given to them to take action. They were not talking about ritualization, and Jesus himself was very clear on keeping the church clean in the very ability he gave the Apostles and the Church. Yes different, but the ability given to the church derives from what carried over into the New Covenant, in turn, the early Christian Church. Christians were meeting in both homes and churches, at the time any building and or the like was under some type of Establishment, mainly if everyone adheres to taxes within Asia Minor (Matthew 22:21), so the corporation or establishment remark is null. This also goes for anyone who isn't Christian around that time, i.e. people who follow and or go to support the Temple of Artemis (Diana). They do this though, if someone is unrepentant, the person is never reinstated, mainly if there is no genuine interest to repent. even if the sinner claims to be of Christ and still sins, anyone who has the ability to keep him away from the flock will do it. To remove the ability to Excommunicate will only harm the church even more. The only problem is to know if repentance is genuine or not, God and Christ can tell, but the common elder needs a high level of discernment in order to do so. even collectively. They're not businessmen. Elders/Pastors are, in a sense, Overseers. Such people are to be qualified in order to buildup Christians spiritually, as well as helping them. The only elders and pastors who are businessmen, who are for profit and not for spiritual growth are Prosperity Preachers, and or any Preacher who uses Old Law for ministry gain, such as using the Tithe, which is Levitical, when people should give out of free will, and or some form of currency to move the gospel forward instead of a mega house. Elders/Pastors who are not of the mainstream, often times, if possible, give time, energy and resources to the people in their community when given the chance, as is support spiritually. Going back to Excommunication, those qualified are the only ones who try to mend people who are expelled and realize their sins. You say this, but it was Jesus himself who brought forth the binding and loosening of the church, which gave the abilities. Excommunication has worked, we know this because of vile sins that would render core teachings entirely did not enter in some churches compared to most and or any vile notion is prevented. Although Jesus is not here yet, the task and command to maintain church purity within the community and family is what a Christian must do, mainly a family head. To refuse to do so, will only warrant judgment before the white throne as to why you didn't do what was entrusted. Yes, but at the same time, you have to use any ability given to deal with those who seek to commit sin and can ultimately manipulate people, even a Christian, in order to do so. Waiting for Jesus is one thing, but trying to prevent and or minimize problems is something we as Christians must do, this is why I directly asked you about the Gang-stalker question, in that example you or anyone choosing to do nothing would put not only the daughter of someone at risk, but the community itself, because once the daughter is affected and goes into sin, the rest in the community of which you lead, in that example, will suffer, in some cases, you'll probably end up with a division situation like the Church of Corinth. The Apostles had those of religious office under them to deal with the church, so they, applying what Jesus gave them, did call the shots. This has not changed in the first century, nor will it change today. If you are wondering, Timothy was not the only head ot the church at the time. For example, Timothy, Paul, even Silas, were not at churches 24/7, they were moving, therfore, others, elders or overseers in places like Philippi, will take instruction, and or in Thessalonica. Paul himself went as far as to even mention these churches had qualfied brothers of the faith to operate within the church. In 1 Timothy 3:8–13 (even with references), the division of labor within the church, to guide the flock is cited. Like the apostles, the elders’ primary role is one of preaching the Word of God, in addition to, serving the congregation in whatever practical needs may arise and or deal with any problems, they are chosen due to obtaining for themselves a high standing and a great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus, i.e. if Paul is in Corinth, clearly someone, like Clement (Php. 4:3), can deal with any situation Philippi and of course, they have others present to divide the labor work within the church. Which is clearly done today. It is clear that in the 1st century and today, ties with anyone who did something bad, church ties should be cut, so when they do the sins, even the one you mentioned, they are to be cut off, as is speaking lies when they know the community deals with core teachings. Although cut off, they are not barred entirely from listening to sermons and or the like. The situation differs when someone who did sin, and seeks legitimate repentance, therefore, some communication would be open to pave a path for said person, hence Jesus' remark who entrusted Excommunication, to bind and to loosen. There is no issue with reinstatement in this regard, be it by a legitimate elder who deals with a small church congregation or a number of elders in a bigger church congregation. There isn't much of a problem with that, mainly in practice. Expelling and reinstatement isn't institutionalization, hence Jesus remark in Matthew 16 on the given ability. Yes, but it should not be ignored that the church has these abilities, clearly, if your church had Gang-Stalkers and or a willful sinner, you would work with anyone you divide the labor with to deal with these people, as is deal with those who do sin, and seek repentance, and reinstatement. Speaking about Excommunication and Expelling, instances of this took place with recent events, even outside of the religious and faith community. That being said, the only people who do not consider Excommunication of those who purposely ignored some passages in Matthew and or is an Anti-Pauline, sadly, these people exist, often times, they either, bend the knee to immoral and brazen conduct into their sermons (like in the examples given last comment) and or allow their community to be molded by said conduct and normalize it. It is among the biggest problems with mainstream churches today.

Might want to keep an eye on any affiliates, like Walmart. The worse thing that can happen down the road is a government controlled currency, which will be problematic. The sheeple will take in the new, and adopted it unfortunately. As always, be vigilant, enduring, and watchful of oneself and others, do not give in to an agenda.

@Moise Racette Some people today either view Excommunication and all things pertaining to it as old and no longer required, and or simply change what it represents. Those who think it is no longer required, especially within Christendom, face far bigger problems compared to those who seek to change/water it down. I was already given examples of recent events regarding that a few days ago, and it seems today's society of what a church should be in terms of accepting all people, even their willful sins (which they still commit), which will result in more problems for others. The more congregants they draw in regardless, the bigger the problems become, such as the example that was shown by someone- The whole Desmond thing and the Church that I spoke about long ago on here, actually came into fruition. Granted CSA is often talked here, while some have a difficult battle against issues in their community, you have these communities that willfully take them in, although they cannot touch a young one, they are permitted to do provocative things in order to entice influence on the youth. The other example, I cannot even show, it isn't PG, to put it simply, because of accepting what is considered normal in today's society, those who should have been excommunicated, unfortunately later took up leadership, and mixed worship with extremely provocative behavior, so of course, it is accepted, in short, mixing Victoria's Secret with the Church in order to draw in members. So the fact you have people seeking to take out those who are of or make the attempt to be like the early church in favor of a watered down Christianity of the mainstream, that is concerning. Makes you wonder why concerning Jehovah's Witnesses, some of the their opposition has not only been weaponizing CSA, but the LGTBQ community against them, thus rallying some of it's members in connection to them, such as, YouTuber Hannah Hart is a known LGBTQ advocate, or people such as actress Leah Remini. They, in turn, also cause others who are not supportive of the LGBTQ to be targets. That being said, if people actually adhere to what the Bible says, as is, even as a Christian under the New Covenant, none of this stuff would be as rampant. There are other factors that play into this, but the obvious ones many of us can see taking place. That Pastor, along with the people affiliated modeling church, should have all been Excommunicated a long time ago.

The reason to know about the early church is because mainstream Christendom has twisted and tainted the history in order to maintain the New Christianity, and spread these notions to others directly or indirectly, which explains some of the New Age ideas coming out of some folks, even here, Defender, Srecko and Witness and a list of others, elsewhere, I deal with far worse. The thing is, yes, what is said pertains to not just core, but the practices of the early church, mainly when dealing with those who are unrepentant concerning sin, Paul, as is the others, being entrusted with said ability to do such things (Matthew 16) are capable of using such for the very purpose of keeping the church congregation clean. But that is concerning those who do the opposite of what a servant of God should be doing. Apostates are far more dangerous in their complexity compared to someone random who was excommunicate for a sin, granted Apostates do not only seek to stand in the way, but in action, seek to destroy, especially today, by any means necessary, become unhinged, disgruntled, very deceptive, etc (this goes for even outside of Religion and Faith as a whole). This is why many Christians, even Jehovah's Witnesses, give warning, for Apostates, in example, can take something, a truth, and twist it, or make a lie become a truth, for example, one of the JW leaders, I believe his last name is Lett, said something about babies, his words was taken out of context to justify more opposition against the faith community, this same opposition seeks to use means of the state to eradicate said faith also. Another example, take any Christian community who opposes Same-Sex marriage and the support for it, Apostates will use this situation to attack a Christian community, weaponizing such, even getting supporters of brazenhood to tag-along to cause some damage. The Greek term for the word also points to defecting true and clean worship, hence, Apostates will do anything and everything to destroy a community’s ability to worship and or demoralize, desensitize forms of worship and or the people of the church. That was because at the time, people like Israel and David were under the Old Law Covenant whereas most practices were in full use, mainly due to the fact of what God had told the first human couple, which followed with anyone after Adam and Eve, in addition of that, such has paved a path for the Tribe of Judah, hence leading the promised seed of which is spoken of as the coming Messiah by most, Jesus himself. As for the other stuff, some of which has already been covered in my last response. You are referring to the verses prior to verse 15. 15 and onward is pretty clear on what I said in my last comment, even the references for each verses pertaining to the practice of Excommunication. Even the outline for the passage leans towards that. Expelled, yes. Cut off, Yes. And we should not forget the reason as to why this is, hence her being cast out of the camp. He has given his people, who held office the ability to do such (Leviticus 7:27; Numbers 15:30, 31), this was instructed, given to the people, put into practice within the Old Law. Not quite, because with the ability to Excommunicate, they can make an attempt to keep the church clean. Sure one can argue, someone can be strict about it, not to experienced with the ability itself, etc., hence my smoking example concerning church action I gave to Butler, Witness and Srecko, but at the same time, depending on who is using said ability, they try to do so to make sure the worship itself is unaffected by any issues. To remove the practice would ultimately make one in subjection on what church’s today suffer. For instance, if you lead the church, you would 100% kick out Gang-Stalkers, otherwise, keeping him there would result in someone committing sin out of wedlock, granted, a Gang-stalker’s goal is not only to make one deviate from the faith, but also, to conform the person to brazenhoods of the world via targeting someone’s son or daughter, in some cases, a martial spouse. Should such be continued to happen without any effort to stop it, there is no point in God being affiliate with a church who refuse to take action to clean itself, or have some shred of effort in doing so. Not only you would kick these people out, but you’d exercise the shunning command affiliated with Excommunication concerning them, by attitude, they’re already Apostates when they seek to cause targets to deviate from God and the Bible. It isn’t based on Diotrephes, granted, Paul himself was using the practice prior to John’s dealing with Diotrephes. It should be obvious via reading 1 Timothy and both letters to Corinth vs reading John’s 3rd letter. The notion here is Diotrephes was Excommunicating, using that church ability, incorrectly in a willful manner, which is evident because he is noted as a troublemaker, a problematic individual within the church. We know this because via reading what John said, it is clear that Diotrephes is very proud of himself, always wants to have the spotlight on him, he refuses to welcome any apostle so chances are he was rude to them, he spreads gossip about followers of Christ who serve God, isn’t hospitable and sheds ill example to others. The usage of Excommunicate was a means to shut down anyone who opposes him directly just via the context alone. Paul on the other hand, only excommunicates when it is justified, such as dealing with those who willfully adhere to brazen sexual immorality, as is the other two with a fractured faith that can cause problems within the church. So unlike Diotrephes, Paul excommunicates correctly. However, today, the task can be challenging. You say this, but you said previously concerning Excommunication in its current form seem to tie into what Diotrephes has done. We already know how the apostles use the practice compared to those in the church's like Diotrephes, who abused it to ignorantly defend themselves personally. Yes, but we cannot ignore the root and context concerning such. Although the practice they follow also, but Excommunication still yields the cutting of religious ties, and opens the door for one to seek repentance. It was put into use by not only them, but Christians also, or any community of people at the time in terms of expelling someone. There is also wickedness everywhere at any time, no one is immune to those with bad intent entering a religious community, be it us, someone else, even JWs, the difficulty is when people of today’s society direct wicked people to institutions, often times, to exploit people to gain something and or the loss of the victim person or group. So God has given us the ability to discern, to deal with such folks, this goes for anyone who holds religious office also, to discern the situation to the best of their ability to prevent any unfavorable aftermath, and should it happen, how to recoup. At the end of the day, legitimate wickedness of all kinds will cease when God sends Jesus to fix it. This is something that Srecko, Witness, Butler, and the Trinitarians here like Defender, cannot understand. That being said, Excommunication, although a practice, comes in 3 types, whereas only one of them, is the legitimate one – We shouldn’t excommunicate anyone, because it’s not merciful. We should excommunicate, because we want to purify the Church of the damned. We should excommunicate, because it’s merciful to sinners.

The more people they bring into the proxy war, results in more consequence. Even when you remove yourself from that and all the politics, the actions of these people, and the supporters, will drag people into this indirectly, so people really need to be vigilant. This also, in some cases, results in a distraction, of various things taking place around the world, including various and yet suspicious events in United States. Such as an explosion at Back River Waste Water Treatment In Maryland, other recent events like the Train Derailment In West Virginia resulting in injures Several People, with a oil spill into the river, and the fires at food facilities, such as the Grand Food Concourse In The Bronx, this is, yet one of several food connected places gone up in flames. Not to mention how depleted the USA is becoming, even more with the bank runs and the collapse, which a lot of us saw coming. All this, with looming nuclear threat because of egotistical politicians and leaders who have end goal agendas in mind. That being said, people need to be vigilant, enduring, and paying attention, to be ready, they need to be aware, so much as they do not succumb to the normal folk who allow themselves to be taken away by such events. Continue to look out for those who listen, even your family and friends, if not for yourself, for them.

The Didache, although totally separate from the Bible, whoever wrote it was aware of church practices and origins, etc. in order to note them, it is also the earliest documents noted in order to not only shed light on some of these operations, but also, shut down any case mainstream Christianity attempts to push, such as , The Trinity. We would also be pushed to believe, and actually accept non bible canons as a truth without question. Not a pretty sight in this alternate reality whereas, in this case, the Devil actually fades out any truth concerning God and his Christ successfully; like a bad ending to a movie/story whereas the villain wins over the hero. This actually goes further back, Matthew 16, also way back into the Old Testament itself. For starters, Excommunication, or Expelling (or Disfellowshipping in this regard), in this case, is an ability to remove bad people from either a community or an organization, especially, the removal is to keep such persons away of to prevent an association of good and bad. This is the same politically, even in normal society today, i.e. an employer, and or company can cut ties with a bad person, a School can cut ties with an inappropriate/violent teacher and or student. Within religious communities, namely the Christian faith, this practice was entrusted to them. The reason for this practice is for the Christian Congregation in the Church of God to maintain clean worship to the best of tier ability, especially, morally. Therefore, congregation, of Christians, young and old, must remain clean if they seek to represent The Most High, God Himself, as is, his chosen Christ/Messiah, Jesus, the latter is being cut off entirely, a task which is at times difficult to do due to how rampant the sins and imperfections of man is, even today. Earlier on, God himself put such into practice, so to speak, with the first human couple, our first human mother and father, Adam and Eve, who were expelled from the Garden of Eden, as seen in Genesis 3:19, 23 and 24, not too long after that, Cain himself was banished, Genesis 4:11, 14 and 16. Korah, his household, as is followers of his, Abiram and Dathan, were expelled (permanently) due to their rebellion against God's chosen one at the time, Moses, continuing with Moses, you have a relative of his, Miriam, who was stricken with not too pleasing illness, leprosy, and expelled from the rest of the Israelites, and was essentially kept away for 7 days. Her reentry into the fold was due to Moses pleading for her. Such can be found in Numbers 12 and 16, including the references. As mentioned before to others on here, although this was in practice, it was a far tougher time under the Old Covenant compared to the new one, granted, in the Old Law, any serious violations regarding ANY of God’s law given through Moses a person could be removed, in notable cases, put to death, (Leviticus 7:27, Numbers 15:30, 31). I am sure everyone here already has an idea of what results in the consequence. Going back to the New Testament, the practice continued on under the New Covenant (although this time we had Jesus instead of Moses), for instance, in 1 Corinthians 10:8 (ref. 1 Cor. 5:5, 11, 13), a great crowd of people were, in this case, excommunicated, removed from the Christian community all due to a practice of willful sexual immorality, clearly not even making an attempt to change, thus 23k, were removed. So Paul here did the right thing with this carried over ability into the New Covenant, which entrusted those with the ability to bind and loosen in the Church. He, Paul, exercised this authority, and in doing so, kept the congregation of Christians clean before The Most High. In addition to that, he exercised this Church action against other bad people, Hymenaeus and Alexander, (1 Timothy 1:19, 20). Now, Excommunication CAN be used incorrectly and or in the wrong way, hence the person named Diotrephes, 3 John 9, 10. There is also the The Sanhedrin who practices Expelling, but they abuse such power compared to the Christians in the 1st century. Lastly, noted in both the Old and New Testament, even spiritual beings are in this boat too, it is very different with them however, for when Angels sin, they are cut off from God entirely, and cast into Tartarus, in a stasis like state, in total darkness, and kept there until the day of inevitable judgement arrives. Seems like they did lean on Excommunication, but not of the kind practiced, hence the Biblical example we already have, when Paul uses Excommunication vs when Diotrephes uses Excommunication. The article you linked seem to make note of the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses were shedding light on Protestants regarding Catholicism (it's practice of such), granted, the history between Catholics and Protestants is deep, or what some of them say today, they are in Protest of the Catholic Church, due to the fact that The Protestant Churches split from the Catholic Church centuries ago. It should be noted that last paragraph in the article also states the following: [The Church's right to excommunicate is based on her status as a spiritual society, whose members, governed by legitimate authority, seek one and the same end through suitable means. Members who, by their obstinate disobedience, reject the means of attaining this common end deserve to be removed from such a society.] Not all Church Fathers were apostates, some of them actually is the reason why Anti-Trinitarianism survived today. If it wasn't for these actions, we'd all be believing the Trinity today as a Core Church Teaching. Even before Jehovah's Witnesses worked on their translation of the Bible, Excommunication, be it referred to as Expelling and or Disfellowshipping, was still a church disciplinary action, as is anything tied to it. Well that is true, but brother(s) (or brethren) generally means A brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian. A brother near or remote [G Strong's 80 - ἀδελφός (adelphos)]. At the time, any man in the Church at the time, could be a regular Church member, a servant, elder, etc. Still seems to be the same case today. It should be noted in Matthew 18, Jesus was talking to a specific group of brothers, in this case, the very people he entrusted such an ability to the church, they were not regular servants, or regular brothers, in the church compared to others, in fact, such men, were above that, they are, the Apostles of the Christ. The very outline of Chapter 18 is also on settling matters, and later, Jesus gave a Parable regarding an unforgiving slave. That said, some can come to that conclusion, but remember, it was specific servants in the church who are capable of doing that, hence who Jesus was talking to when entrusting such ability. True, however, the Church of Corinth was a physical place of worship. You are focusing on a few verses in the letter Paul wrote to the people of that Church, Corinth had a lot of Christians as is the other places Paul went to. This was also a place Paul was at for 18 months to preach and teach the gospel (Acts 18:11). All and all, his message was for the Christians of Corinth as a whole, be it at their homes, the Church itself, etc. Therefore, the Church, the people, cut ties with such a person religiously, especially if they continue to sin, a very different case if they seek repentance however. Well that is the point, whenever someone is Excommunicated, it is known by the Church congregation, such as, when Paul called out the 23k immoral people, and or persons like Hymenaeus, Alexander, as well as the Diotrephes situation according to John. You have to look at things from a Strong's usage as is the occurrences, even the roots. "don't say a greeting" is, in this case, correct, due to G Strong's 3004 [λέγετε (legete)] This root Greek word can be noted as: to speak/say of/out, to teach, affirm, maintain, greet/greeting, advise, exhort, command (direct), to call upon/by name The secondary you mentioned, is not translated in that way, however, it can be rendered via the roots as this "give any kind of encouragement." If I remember correctly, I believe it is the YLT that rendered it as such, the YLT being the Young's Literal Translation of the Bible. This verse, also ref. 3 John 10. This is true, but remember, not everyone seeks repentance, some will continue to do bad, hence, 1 Corinthians 10:8. This is why Christians back then encourage people to try and deal with whatever sin and or bad practice they are dealing with, some will listen, some will not. The case just continues, even after the 1st century, onward, to present day, especially in a society that attest to the idea that good is bad, and bad is good. Therefore, some who do not heed instruction, especially if they dwell in Apostasy, will, effectively, be ignored religiously, in some cases, the members of the church can deal with them how they see fit, knowing that not everyone seeks repentance, and not everyone seeks to shift from bad to good. As I say this often, the sin we inherited, results in such imperfections. It may not be in the Bible in today's modern tongue, but it does have a root word for Excommunication, therefore, no violation of God's Word (Deut. 4:2). this is similar to, yet parallel to the Golden Rule in Matthew 7:12, although not in verse, the practice, and or Shema (as many tried to argue against this), in the Greek text. That being said, God is indeed love, some people do seek repentance, even when church ties are cut, there is some actions to bring the person back, reinstate them, however, on the other side of the spectrum, there are people who fake repentance, and or do not change from their bad ways, thus continuing to do bad and bring unclean ideas and practices into a faith community. Today's mainstream church accepts this, but clearly, anyone who adheres to God's Word, making a strict attempt also, knows that such a practice is bad, therefore, they can and will use Excommunication for people who refuse to drop bad habits, there will be people who use such incorrectly, but we should not rule out those that use it the right way. I had a few sources on here regarding the different forms of Excommunication or Expelling, and which is the correct one, I'd post it here, but I have to go looking for it. Been a while since such a discussion came up. The biggest danger however, is those who abuse repentance, which in turn, exploits Christians', that in of itself, is another rabbit hole. This makes Excommunication and or Reinstating someone, even in a church, difficult at times, something Paul, John, etc. did not have to deal with.

@Matthew9969 The sad part of it is, there is an argument elsewhere stating that the unborn child, from what I have been reading, a girl, should not be counted as a life. It just shows the level of madness whenever the beast molds the minds of people in the End Times. @Moise Racette Yep, it was only a matter of time. As you can see, even Amazon, not being affiliated with anything pertaining to JWs, Germany, or the investigation, took it upon themselves to expel any material made public by this person. They might go after the website also. But of course, there will be people out there who will archive the information, often times, for nefarious deeds. From the information I also gathered, it seems the guy left on his own accord, some EXJWs are saying he was excommunicated such as Witness' source, Marcus Vaughn/The Ex-Bethlite, however, through Sunrise Ezekiel, someone I mentioned here from time to time, said he seen what some JWs in Germany have been saying, some of which, having connections with members of that JW church in Hamburg who gave input, so the man in question did indeed had some issues of his own, in addition to that, there was mention of one JW who manage to escape, but was not aware of the person dodging 10 direct shots from an alleged marksman. Moreover, there is a possibility more JWs, the ones who are injured may expire, as he points out.

This situation has now got the people who owned guns involved, so there is heavy debate on gun laws. Another factor to this, is people are focused on the Anonymous tip letter given to police in January-February. It is unknown of who gave sent this letter, be it a family member, a friend, neighbor, or someone of the JW community. Police did their check on this person, but did not even bother to keep an eye on him afterwards. Perhaps if they had a watchful eye on this person, the damage of this situation could have either been minimized and or prevented entirely. At least, that is what I am seeing from that notion. So the person who left the faith community, may have had a mental issue, as is having had a strong hatred for said faith community as well as his employer, which is parallel to the murder-suicide in late December 2022. That being said, the biggest thing is that the chancellor, Olaf Scholz, made a comment to this situation.

We warned people about this a while back, unfortunately, some listened, some did not. There has been some people in the Investor Community who even attest to this, even in the Truther community, same case, and I am sure others brought this up too. The people who are panicking more are the ones caught in the crossfire of this. There is also going to be a lot of very angry people in regards to this too. Another 2008.

True, and now the JW's opposition is having a field day with this one. Their narratives will be pushed as a truth unfortunately when they have no information concerning that particular JW church or it's people besides the person who committed the crime.

How soon you think the alphabet boys will rain down on Amazon to remove those books, and force the provider to shut down the man's website? Usually for stuff like this, they would take things down in 24 hours, and shut down any forum or website in support of someone who did something this vile.

Yep, that is him. Apparently, he was angry at his former employer too. The police had went to his home in February when they got tipped with a letter from an unknown person, but didn't do or suspect anything because he was cooperative. This is an example of anyone, be it teacher, elder, pastor, even those in law, such as a police officer, can't see if the person is a threat or not because often times, people can easily put up a show, whether they manipulate someone or not in order to do something bad. That letter should have prompted them to keep a watch on this person.

Tragic. Germany though has been hit with a lot of issue similar to this in recent years, both by jihadists and far-right extremists. Other than that, best believe your opposition will spin the narrative as they did with other shooting situations, while at the same time, rational people are getting fed up with them, and attacking back claims. That being said, the shooter in question was a former JW (wasn't a JW for 18 months and had left the faith community), some of his publications, noted by sources, were found online, such as The Truth About God, Jesus Christ And Satan. A New Reflected View Of Epochal Dimensions, these books were also mentioned by your opposition, even by some of Pearl's people, granted they use anything and everything to counter whatever publications you have. Not only this situation effects the Jehovah's Witnesses faith community, but it also effects anyone who use firearms responsibly, as well as those who believe an unborn child to be a living soul, since we already know how some groups few a child in the womb. Africans and Ukrainians will also be angry too, hence the victims. As with the other situations, similar to a degree, I wouldn't be surprise if influence was involved, granted, most cases like this seem to stem form that, no matter how anyone tries to deny it, ironic too because I mention this many times before. Like I said, times will be more tough and serious, therefore, it would be suggested to make some applications because nowadays, there are, and will be people out to get you, even being pushed by others to do so.

@TrueTomHarley Indeed, people who take things out of context and use their own narrative can be crazy, just as crazy as those who follow them. Recently debated guy who says he is Christian, this person is very quick to attack, disparage, and mock people, specifically women regardless of their age be it they are good or bad, and 100% brands them as harlots, equating them to women who do provocative immoral things online. He he himself debated a woman prior my response to him, who he angered and recorded or posted her reaction, and he justified via using 1 Timothy 2:12 out of context twisting it in a way to attack the person in question, all while making vulgar statements the woman and her husband in question; all of them being mainstream Christians, therefore all practices things unclean, even recently he angered some Catholic woman who became very expletive and threatening herself, and he was later found out to, in a debate with someone, he outright went after the man's wife after finding her online, and making vulgar comments, angering this person. He was corrected by me and several people, but his followers, which he dubs his zombie brigade and warband, attack the truth of Paul's words. With support from his followers, his statement was simply, "I don't give an F, and I bet if Jesus was here, he'd agree with and drink a few beers with me." and "ok, but women who are childless and support feminism are not Christian." Long story short, many people like this guy are out there. the person in question has quite the rap sheet (from what I can learn of this person), such as - Was found out to be possibly watched by the FBI due to a concern co worker who reported him, which resulted in Paypal cutting ties with him, prompting him to make threats of executing the anonymous person who did it. Has made extremely sexualized and vulgar comments to women online, even underaged. Has got into a heated argument with many people, including a 16 year old girl who, when her brother, got involved, she was attacked and harassed by this person's followers. The girl challenged him on the bible vs his views. He is also very childish. How I got roped into that debate, I unintentionally made a remark to someone, which in turn, brought me response into that debate itself. So the example like what the EXJWs are doing, as with others, even this guy I mentioned here, people need to be careful of things (for young boys, they should avoid the example mentioned), whom they follow, whom they listen to, like I said in the past, social media is where a lot of bad folks hang out, even predators, who can influence, turn the victim toxic themselves and or lure them.

@Equivocation I see, it seems even to this day, like the EXJW, the groomer still has supporters because of how she looked. It reminds me of a Bible inspired parable, with a bit of inspiration from the Lady and the Tiger story, it was about a man who warned his two sons to be careful while walking at night because the area is not only not safe, but the influences were there, the family however, was poor and could not move so they had to make the money to leave. Long story short, both of them walked back and forth from the home/work passing the house of a prostitute, one son listened to his father and ignored the woman as a bad influence, the other, night by night grew interested in the prostitute because of how she looked, the way she was adorned, and eventually, one night he went to the house of the prostitute, and only went home the next day, but the ending was left to ambiguous speculation. Just like the lady and the tiger, the reader would assume what happen next, I made a note that perhaps his father scolded him, others made note that the son was poor, and this resulted in the prostitute hiring thugs in the street to bother the family, others had their endings also. Besides that, although many situations are similar, it is unwise for people to weaponize CSA, it is unwise for people to weaponize misinformation. Going back to the UN, clearly a DPI and an ECOSOC are vastly different, the fact Witness and many believe this today still, something that people like Robert King pushed, is ridiculous, so much so to people who watch the UN operating intently, let alone work on ways to combat CSA the correct way. There are some darker aspects to CSA that isn't talked about as much also, and such dark elements usually start in the home, in most cases.

Culturally, I primarily eat Caribbean and Latin based food, often times, it is Belizean food since my youth in the 90s, granted, that was all you can eat while island bound. Outside of that, Mediterranean Food as well as French and Italian cuisines, rarely do I eat American based food. I tend to say away from certain things that has artificial salts, sugars and false oils that aren't cold pressed. In the past, I had tried African, Russian and other European food, such as Sauerbraten. So there is a variety of things I tried. I tend to fast for long hours before eating anything, so the meals are big, but semi-fasting, 2 small to mid meals. Those calories are also burnt, more of it than I eat. That being said, it is good to learn some recipes for some of these dishes, for home cook meals are the best, mainly when it comes to places that serve the food that live up to that notion, which greatly exceeds that of any processed and rushed.

@Moise Racette Agreed, however, as you already know, it won't stop anyone who is in opposition to something or someone to make their own assumption and push it as a truth. The people similar to whom Witness brings up (like Ex-Bethel Marcus), as did Srecko (Grifter and Red District Adventurer Lloyd Evans), are blaming one of a JW leader, with the idea of enticing murder of infants by using clipped videos, and days after that a situation took place, and they tried to link that mental illness situation with the JW leader and push it as a truth, gain support for the Washington DC event they have planned, which will fail, as is throw anger and hatred towards the community, obviously stuff like this will influence people, and a single soul could take action, which is bad. They already did this with the shooting in December, and they'll do the same with the shooting involving the underage boy. So, in this sense, not only CSA is weaponized, Mental Illness, is also weaponized as well, which is sadistic in all sense. That being said, just like CSA prevention, people with an axe to grind will not read things about mental illness, instead, they spark accusations and assume things.

I was told I look like a cross between people named Rizza Islam, Jonni Shreve and investor Ron Yates. As for Morris, I remember saying to Srecko a while back, if any of the faith community's religious leaders, either steps down or passes, there will be ample speculation that will take place. I am guessing the fact you mention this, the rumors began. That being said, I think the biggest accusation I ever got was from Yvette Felarca, who did this not only to bash the Bible, but to get people to attack me, but the irony is, some of her people assumed because of my skin tone, I was BLM and second guessed, another group I have disdain for. I was called a Muslim for debating misconceptions about them also, so yes, I take issue with falsehoods and narratives spun in a way to demonize a person or a group. Those who spin lies often times do not expect people who are aware and speak truth of things, thus shattering the one sided narratives they profess. Not all millennials are proactive, so to speak, most of them tend to complain about things and are often times not aware, them, and some Gen Zers are supporting things they shouldn't be supporting, let alone, some things they take action for. Which in this case, will be problematic for many, even you and your faith. Not sure if you heard what they plan on doing with God, or trying to make Jehovah out to be. Since Matthew brought up the notion of Jesus pre-existing, you'd be surprise of what they already say about Jesus. So the fact your community is preaching the gospel, you are bound to run into such folks as I have.

Wasn't he born prior to the Vietnam War? A War that was NOT necessary.

The pre-existence belief is the obvious in Scriptures, for in several places in the Bible, mainly the Greek text, it teaches such. In addition to that, further evidence for this originates from the Christ, Jesus, himself due to his behavior as seen in Scriptures, such as the things he had said and done prior to and when he was given authority and power. The notion of that Jesus being the Firstborn of All Creation, as well as being the Firstborn out of the Dead is also another factor, for those two expressions, mentioned by Paul has context behind them despite regardless of how people try to counter that. This view is something held by the 1st century Christians evidently, but it was not really a view held by the New Christianity that came later by means of what was accepted in Asia Minor, and eventually, that became the norm compared to the original (the original view obviously held by some today). Clearly the Master and his worker dynamic, which, in truth, is a Father and Son dynamic. The obvious being, since Jesus was indeed the Firstborn of All Creation, he was most likely there for some time prior to anything else being made. In a simplest way, someone you are fond of, you tend to work best with them. The Father takes delight in the Son, The Son rejoices at the works of the Father's hand. I doubt any leader of the JWs is an islander, a Truther, Debater, or a Grey Man. I am also far younger than them combined. And I do not think they live for debate. I deem you as misguided often times, not stupid. This is regarding a subject you brought up when I debated 3 Trinitarians here, The Durbin pagan thing which you defended, cultural practices within a faith community, etc. People of Mainstream Christianity, who has any body member tangled in it's branches, let alone any ties to movements and or affiliated support, small or great, I deem them as misguided, and the legitimate ones within it that are threats, like a Francis Chen type, is true opposition. Sadly, most, will fall victim of what is to come. Same case with the masses who blindly following falsehoods and mistruths in media, and do not seek truth. That being said, I am called many things via one's assumption. You can ask Yvette Felarca, who's since been pacified by authority.

Often times people ignore this. If one Christian has a mental break down and does something, commit to harm of self and or others, for example, The Michigan State University shooting, the man who took the lives of 3 was a lonely Christian man in some sources. Because of his actions, as with any case regarding people with faith, people will brand us as crazy because of the actions of one mental problematic person. Similar to this, you have a similar situation as well which was making the rounds concerning one of your leaders, Mark Stephen Lett, whose facial appearance reminds me of the Bounce by the Ounce guy, whereas he was blamed by EXJWs for the actions of a mental ill person in Ecuador who is of your faith community concerning a baby who lost it's life, they went as far as to connect the situation to said leader of your faith. The truth of the matter is that this was false, and the video was taken out of context, to push the idea that your faith community has little to no care for babies in or recently coming out of the womb. When the video isn't clip and the context is found, his notion was that people, even from birth, are born sinners. And of course, this isn't the first time things aid has been taken out of context; when people are agenda driven, they will twist truths and lies to trick people, in turn, it CAN cause people to even try to harm others in the worse possible way, such as the story in question about the murder suicide. The mental ill are the disabled souls who have legitimate issues, some of which, will be in need of support, including when they do take actions outside of their own will, then you have those, be it among them or not, who willfully partake in ill action of their own accord, as is being influenced by ill intent, those are the mental depraved ones to be careful about. Even outside of mental illness, most among the unaware are depraved in today's society.

They don't and the fact they still do not do this, to this day, is mind boggling, even ignoring any notions of child abuse prevention provided. However, there are a small few, a very small number that do, but end up as enemies of the EXJW majority. In this faith community as is others, this tends to be the case because whenever you have someone who speaks with reason, they are deemed the bad guy and some how later mentioned as defending abusers, which is ridiculous. Another problem is weaponizing child abuse, the fact most EXJW proclaim the faith community is a pedophile paradise, only leads abusers, who are on places like reddit, YouTube, Facebook, etc. to look into said places to seek out more victims, this is what I talked about before, but the same suspects ignore this, Srecko, Witness, and Butler specifically because when the Facebook pedophile problem came up, he was deathly silent. To add more fuel to the fire, some EXJWs are hypocrites, they'll shout from the rooftops about abuse, but will defend abusers themselves in other communities they care about and or outright ignore any abuse, even attacking the abused if their reasoning does not align with them. In example, there is one who was found out to be affiliated with EXJWs via influence (Latino American) who reside in the Gaming Community in a specific genre, who defended the actions of a child groomer because the person in question was very attractive to him. I do not recall the name of the woman he defended, but in the truther community they have screenshots of the person, however they tend to blur or black out the eyes (the groomer, 24, is the one sitting behind the victim, 14, later seen walking with said victim). Other notes point to the fact she did this while in the process of being engaged to a person, who also fell victim to superficial attraction, this all took place around 2019-2020. This same person later defended another of that community who was texting a minor, although the community grilled him prior to being reinstated, some, even this EXJW affiliate, defended him and said that it was something light. It was only found out he was an EXJW after people looked into his account, he subscribed to numerous EXJW channels, but after this exposure, he changed his name and picture on multiple media, even reddit. The irony is this was also mentioned to Butler, who brushed it off. This is but 2 instances for this person. I can assure you there are some other ones that are often times bizarre and problematic compared to that example above. When you dwell in CSA prevention, you come to learn and read many things, some things very comfortable for the average reader or onlooker. When these situations happened, the community began to turn to solutions, ideas, and practices to root out what they can, even going as far as to see if the allegations are true or not because they know, as with ALL institutions and even groups, abuse is a problem, they even noted that joking about abuse resulted in such abusers entering said communities, which can be comparable to EXJWs who joke about it also, in addition, they make it seem that religious people, even JWs, are all supporters of abuse, which is the total opposite. So, the fact that people can do these things, is actually beneficial for the community they are tied to, which contains underaged people, mainly when learning prevention, plays a key role, something of which many, even JWs know, hence the sourced quotations you mentioned. Indeed, but the hard heads will not even consider that source or any of the one's you mention (the irony is ARC also noted these sources and articles, which EXJWs ignored), and will be against anyone who says otherwise, going as far as to send death threats. It is also the very reason why I was unable to get any video source of the guy who stopped the EXJWs in New York granted, like the 1975 video, they made sure that no one, even JWs can locate this information. The only relic of that history is from an Facebook link of the timeline itself of when it occurred. This is why them going to the US Capitol, will result in the same outcome, only this time, they'll be dealing with the political paradigm that uphold the constitution to a very high regard. when they fail, they'll blame the Watchtower. Yes, but as we speak we do see a censorship battle going on, of which some people are hit, myself included. Often times some folks do not realize that a warpath like mentality will not only cost them, but others in the process too, and they'll be looking to blame someone. This goes into the realm of religion, as some are already making attempts to censor Bible passages and verses, so in this sense, if they seek to go and take down a faith community, the laws would end up affecting them and will cost others who are not involved. This is why people should not mess around with the political paradigm if they do not know how to navigate and or combat it, only makes things worse.

Yes, in any situation, even any institution, people with bad intent should be rooted out without attacking the community itself, and or luring more people with bad intent into said community, i.e. Witness uses reddit, there are pedophiles on reddit (as is on YouTube, social media, etc.), and any community within those spaces; the EXJWs will say a community is a pedophile paradise, so to speak, it will lure them in. This results in people who do not do this to constantly look into and advise said communities of unknown and or potential threats, i.e. after the reddit podophile fiasco, people got together to see what can be done, in addition to a legitimate crackdown. The aware will always do what they need to root out the bad and educate the people and or a community to help minimize issues, but the unaware will do ill action and see it as just, then go on a warpath, these people, only make things worse, and it forces people who can do some good, to run into some difficulties. the fact that known people on here refuse to see and or take action on this, even stating they have their own Agenda, is concerning. It shows they do not want to deal with the problems, instead, seek to demonize and to literally eradicate a community, even (again) using political powers, some of them wild beast affiliates, in order to do so. Often times, they do not read into the things they post. That same image Witness, Srekco and Jesus Defender used, and they missed it. Jesus Defender is an interesting one because, as I told Witness, there are some Trinitarians will use EXJWs as puppets in order to sway them and or get them to do their bidding, i.e. the idea of not believing Jesus to be God (denial of Deity as they say) deems one a Heretic and or a Cultist. The only good thing is some people eventually break away form their senses, and begin to think and do the research over time, in this sense, getting back up after falling. But you'll find that there are some who go the totally different route and continue to go down a path of delusionary nonsense, they choose to not get back up, so to speak - Proverbs 24:16. That being said, as you can see, another of Pearl's people, who agrees with a protest to destroy a community as a whole, and somehow believes the UN/NWO is connected to JWs... As a Truther who dwells on seeing the operations of a legitimate enemy, there is 0 connection with JWs with anything Agenda 21, NWO, etc.

She posted this before I remember, but never answered the Charter question. But of course, she and others who believe the UN narrative will spin it. Even though the UN's own website makes the distinction between which NGOS support them or not. @AnnaNana The practice of Disfellowshiping originates from Excommunication, an ability given to the early Church by means of Christ. Although some churches practice it, there are 3 variations, only one of them is to be practiced, the originally one.

This area is somewhat of a free for all space, sometimes JWs appear here, but they mostly are within the JW only club.