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Cognitionis

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  1. Thanks
    Cognitionis got a reaction from Gnosis Pithos in NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Sale of Historic Building, The Towers   
    I believe there is no reason for anyone to gossip in Jehovah’s organization, by either past or present members that still consider themselves active.

    There were many levels of what was going on with the Watchtower, that opposers, now take advantage of. However, any question relating to these matters can be answered, honestly by the Watchtower, directly, or by reviewing past publications that relate to the cleansing of Jehovah’s House. There is no need to get secondhand accounts on these matters.

    Contact the Watchtower, or research on your own, starting from 1966-1975, 1976-1980, 1981-1984

    Yearbook 1979 page-30-1

    At the same time, we will have in mind the scriptures that forewarn us of what to expect. Some will stumble and fall away or become unfruitful for various reasons. (Matt. 13:18-22) Furthermore, as shown at Revelation 3:15, 16, the Lord Jesus Christ, who knows the spiritual condition of each one who professes to be his follower, does not tolerate lukewarmness. He advises any who are in that state now to rectify their condition if they are to please him. And just as some deviated from the truth in the first century, it is not surprising that the same thing happens today. Jehovah knows those who belong to him. (2 Tim. 2:18, 19) Warning examples of what befell the Israelites as they were about to enter the Promised Land should keep us individually from becoming overconfident. (1 Cor. 10:12) The seriousness of this matter is emphasized in the fact that 29,893 were disfellowshiped last year. There is no question that our faith is being tested today. Jehovah will retain in his favor and service only those who are clean, yes, the ones striving to meet all the Scriptural requirements and prove themselves fit to be entrusted with the “good news.”—Mic. 6:8; 2 Cor. 6:17-7:1; 1 Thess. 2:4.

    It only serves Satan’s propose when there is strife among the brothers.

  2. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to JW Insider in BAPTISM IN CHILE, SALÓN EL TRÉBOL   
    Father Guido Sarducci once found a pope in a pizza.
  3. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in BAPTISM IN CHILE, SALÓN EL TRÉBOL   
    ..... but then again I never have understood hair styles ......
     
  4. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in BAPTISM IN CHILE, SALÓN EL TRÉBOL   
    The problem is this ... I visualize words as they come into my mind and try to integrate the picture to see if it is good art (truth) ... and it does not help AT ALL to, just before I go to lunch, to read about a "BAPTISM IN CHILE" . The same thing always bothered me about the "Care to join me in a cup of coffee?" ... as if we would both fit.
    And don't get me started with "Don't Cry for me, Argentina!" from the play EVITA.
  5. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Srecko Sostar in NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Sale of Historic Building, The Towers   
    Perhaps GB stick to the story of multiplying Masters money in too literal meaning and working with money in various ways. Investments funds of all sorts, buying, selling and building real estates. ... And is it not strange how US people, citizens are founders of WT Company-Religion? Because US are very good soil for prosperity in various way.    hehe  
  6. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to JW Insider in NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Sale of Historic Building, The Towers   
    We also paid for people to move out of the building and ended up with about a dozen elderly persons who could not be bought out at any price. We would not be able to use the entire building until they died. We moved them all onto a couple of floors that Bethelites couldn't move into until they died. The construction crew had a kind of pseudo-celebration when the last one died.
    It's a curious thing, though, that the Watch Tower's history has seen this happen several times. Russell spent his and his father's money in 1877 because 1878 was going to be the "resurrection" and change from fleshly body to spiritual body. Russell bought into Barbour's Herald and helped him distribute Barbour's "Three Worlds" / "Tabernacle Shadows" and then Russell's own "Object and Manner of the Lord's Return" in huge quantities in 1877 and 1878. Then in 1913 and 1914 almost all the finances of the Society were gone. MacMillan says the Society was completely broke by mid-1914. They had spent a tremendous amount on "Photo-Drama of Creation." There was not much need to hold anything back, as everyone involved in the Society was "going home" to heaven in 1914. Then, in 1924, just one year prior to the resurrection of the ancient worthies, Rutherford took possession of a couple of houses and a couple of expensive cars for David and Abraham to drive. (This is not your fore-fathers Oldsmobile!) Also in 1924, they completed gathering the money to build their own first factory at 117 Adams Street - 8 stories, taking up an entire block.
  7. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Sale of Historic Building, The Towers   
    I might ....  a building is at least a real object ... whereas money is just a symbol representing hours of human labor, skill, and industriousness.
    Or, I might stock op on non-perishable food, water purification devices, medicines,  tools, weapons and ammunition.
    I do not hunt animals, and I do not like to even fish ... but I believe it is a highly desirable skill to have.  
    Those that think this is horrible are completely divorced from reality ... as EVERYTHING that lives has to eat ... and I would rather hunt than take up "grazing".
    The natural order of things, is that about half of all life eats the other half, and even they have to eat plants that are also alive., and this was true many millions of years before "homo theocraticus" ... humans  directly created by God ... came upon the scene.
    Also ... if a loaf of bread is $700 ... and you HAVE $700 ... you eat while others who do NOT have $700 ........ starve to death.
  8. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Srecko Sostar in NEWS RELEASES | Jehovah’s Witnesses Close Sale of Historic Building, The Towers   
    The Witnesses purchased the building in 1975 . 
    Who normally would have spend money to buy building in this old  wicked system just before 1975 Armageddon ??  
  9. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to JW Insider in 1290 and 1335 days   
    I figure that, even if I didn't want to, I should do my part to bring this topic back to the 1290 and 1335 days. I requote the verses from 2 Thessalonians that Nana Fofana already quoted because so many of these recent speculations appear to me to fit the same idea that Paul warns us about. It's as if these speculations are intended to quickly shake us from our reason or "alarm" us into thinking that the "day of Jehovah" might be so imminent as to be immediately upon us. And there is often a sense that we must listen because this is just as important as hearing it from the apostles themselves: if we don't pay attention then we aren't paying attention to the Bible! This makes it fit the idea of "a letter as if from us [the apostles and inspired Bible writers]."
    I say this, of course, while also admitting that prophetic speculation is interesting. Obviously, I do more than my share of such speculation myself. And I also believe that the day of Jehovah can come at any time now -- and will come as a surprise, as a thief in the night. I do not believe that we are still waiting for an additional specific fulfillment of the man of lawlessness, before the day of Jehovah can arrive. (2 Thess 2).
    As I've said before, however, my take on this is rather boring. I expect exciting times ahead, but not because we can now see any specific events that would make us know anything about the times or seasons. It's one of the reasons I see a good portion of our current chronology as "broken." In Brother Splane's latest video about the generation, he points out the advancing age of some representatives of persons in "Group 2" to show how this system cannot last much longer. Pointing out that the system appears not to be able to go on much longer seems intuitive enough for a lot of reasons. But a claim that we "know" it due to Bible chronology, is a claim of knowledge that Jehovah says clearly he has not given to us, and we therefore need nothing to be written to us about it, because it's not for us to know; it comes as a thief! Instead, our current version times it to a time prior to the deaths of those in Group 2. In other words, we are now in exactly the same state we were when we were looking for a time prior to the deaths of those in Group 1, before a Group 2 was ever hypothesized.
    (Acts 1:7) . . .“It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. (1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. (Daniel 2:19-21) . . .So Daniel praised the God of heaven. 20 Daniel declared: “Let the name of God be praised for all eternity, For wisdom and mightiness are his alone. 21 He changes times and seasons,. . (Matthew 24:36) . . .“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. I'm not saying that anyone here is trying to foretell the day and the hour, only that I see a parallel in what Paul said above, and in the common implication about identifying specific events that will reveal an end-times timeline.
    I do have a couple ideas for the meaning of the 1290 and 1335 days that provides a specific lesson for Christians at all times, but which already had a prior application that was specific to those time periods. It's not necessarily correct, and of course something could still come up in the future that would reveal how silly all this speculation (on my part, at least) has been.
     
     
     
     
  10. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Israeli Bar Avaddhon in The Bible is all you need   
    I have made an article explaining how to do a biblical search and I did not insult or offend anyone.
    You have started to say that I am an apostate, a deceiver, one who wants to put "confusion", a false prophet, deceptive etc. etc.
    All right.
    This shows how deep your knowledge of the Bible and how deep is your love for God - Matthew 5:11; 12:36, 37;
    I'm also used to this and I expect a lot more for the future - John 16: 1, 2
    P.S. But was not I the presumptuous? Are not you that you understand everything?
  11. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Israeli Bar Avaddhon in The Bible is all you need   
    Dear AllenSmith,
    you will surely have noticed that I use the translator (with many errors) because my english is poor.
    So if I misunderstand a question or the purpose of a question, you will understand the reason.
    Regarding the meaning of the article, I speak of personal experience (and not presumption). I know very well that with many of my brothers, who have many good qualities, you can not talk about doctrines, you can not challenge an "official truth" because otherwise you are automatically a murmur or apostate.
    It's not a novelty that we can not recapture a doctrine so we're not talking about science fiction.
    Continue to apply the scriptures to whomever you want. It is not my problem. You will not be judging
  12. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Israeli Bar Avaddhon in The Bible is all you need   
    Dear AllenSmith,
    If you want to push me to say "The Governing Body" then say "Then you are an apostate!" I assure you that this is not the point.
    If I follow any person who has authority (true or supposed) above the Bible, then I am an idolater - Matthew 23: 8
    If, on the other hand, there is someone who is able to enter the subject without taking a political position, let's see what the article is about to be published.
    The article has highlighted the correct (right, right) method of doing a biblical search.
    Who has the authority to determine whether a doctrine is correct or wrong?
    Only the Bible - Matthew 4: 4, 7; John 17:17
    The Son of God, every time he taught or responded to his adversaries, never forgot his own wisdom, but always mentioned the Scriptures - Matthew 15: 3-9
    How can we make the Bible, and only the Bible, speak when we need to understand a doctrine or teaching?
    We have to search the subject in all the scriptures that speak (and also read the context, obviously).
    To do this, Concordance is very useful (as seen in the picture).
    By doing this you will find that some doctrines are correct and some are wrong.
    Those who really love the Bible will respect the Bible.
    Those who love their religion, more than the Bible, will pretend nothing and find all "justifications" to continue in error.
    Is the article intended to be a rebellion to religion or to create another religion?
    Absolutely not because this is the people of God.
    However, although this is the people of God this does not mean that there are both doctrinal and organizational errors.
    If we read the warnings to the congregations reported in Revelation, we see that false teachings and bad people can enter into the people of God - Revelation 2: 1, 8, 12, 18; 3: 1, 7, 14 (see also 2 Timothy 2: 20-22)
    He who examines the congregations will put things into place (even with severe discipline) so we look forward to him, without creating divisions.
    But this does not mean that we do not have to study the Bible personally.
    It does not mean that we do not have to understand what the Bible really teaches (though we find that some things taught are wrong) and does not mean that we do not have to act according to knowledge acquired according to conscience.
    Studying the Bible is a duty of every Christian.
    So, for some who understood the article, the encouragement is to study the Bible with the only truly neutral and accurate help: the Bible itself.
    When the discipline comes (and it will come) no one thinks to say "I could not know. I was so taught in this way" because judgment will be individual on each of us.
    Each of us has a Bible and has the ability to understand it, asking for help from God.
    The reaction that someone has been commenting on this article should make us realize that some of us have become idolatrous.
    Someone has put their own religion above the Word of God.
    When it is not possible to discuss a doctrine (or anything else) even in the face of biblical evidence, it is evident that some people have been placed above the Word of God - Matthew 15: 6
    This is one of the reasons (not the only one) for which God will punish his own people.
    Individually, though, each of us can be protected from calamity.
    I hope that each of you can evaluate this article carefully and personally ascertain what the will of God is for us.
     
  13. Haha
    Cognitionis reacted to Israeli Bar Avaddhon in The Bible is all you need   
    And I recommend: add other exclamation points otherwise it is unclear.
    And continue to put negative scores on posts: maybe the majority wins
  14. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Israeli Bar Avaddhon in The Bible is all you need   
    it is very easy to apply scriptures to others and never to themselves. Try answering the post's merit. Has the post taught to create other religions or divisions? Instead, he taught what the supreme authority is. The Bible. If someone teaches a doctrine that goes against the Bible, then it is a false doctrine. Did I say that this is not the people of God and so you have to abandon it?
    Try to distinguish an unjustified criticism from a biblical teaching. Did I say that the name of God is not Jehovah?
    Did I say that Jesus is the part of a Trinity?
    Did I teach that there is hell of fire?
    Absolutely no.
    However, the people of God will be severely disciplined (shortly) because they have not followed the Bible as they should have but have taught as doctrines of men commanded - Joel 1: 5-8
    You can not even do a search with the Bible because you have raised some people above the Bible.
    If you believe you have not yet understood everything, try to make your reflections - Amos 5: 18-20
    Just like the ancient Israelites, most of you have a false sense of security - 1 Peter 4:17
    The ancient inhabitants of Judah were too sure of them and had to wake up a good morning.
    You have the Bible: try to study it really
  15. Like
    Cognitionis got a reaction from AllenSmith in The Holy Spirit   
    I believe the error lies with you. Mr. Smith interpretation of your conclusion is correct. Why would you say otherwise, out of anger?
  16. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Cos in The Holy Spirit   
    Mr. Smith,
     
    Do I dispute that “fill” is in the passage of Exodus 31:3? NO!
     
    Yet you give the impression that for some reason you think that I did. You are wrong!
     
    Please try and read what I say a little more carefully then you might avoid jumping to the wrong conclusion. <><
  17. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Cos in The Holy Spirit   
    Gone fishing,
     
    Your contradiction is a fact, trying to make out that is just my opinion, ignores the dictionary definition.
    My dear deluded friend, you say one thing and then another, and on top of that you try to deny the meaning of what you said. Like it or not you have contradicted yourself which seems to be a pattern. I don’t say this to offend, it is just an observation of mine (and that definitely is my opinion). <><
  18. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Shiwiii in Witness' view of the GB   
    No, that was the question I posed to you. Based on your writing here, we are in agreement. The Spirit of God IS the Spirit of Jesus and any mention of a person having the Spirit within themselves, have the Spirit of God in them. 
    Expanding on this a little, it is the belief of the wt that only those who are anointed have this Spirit, then the wt has declared that the rest (earthly hope in their view) DO NOT BELONG TO JESUS as they do not have the Spirit of Jesus within them. If read within context and of what we are talking about in Romans 8, Jesus DID NOT come to save them (Matt 1:21 on context with Romans 8:9) according to wt.
     
    This is a leap and assumption not found in scripture. NO WHERE is there a limitation on who belongs to the New Jerusalem. There is no reference to 144k outside of Revelation, and certainly no reference to a spiritual Israel. This was all invented by the wt/gb about 144k. If one is to take this number literally, then why is it not taken literally where they come from? Or who makes up this group? Male Jewish virgins would be the answer. To take only part of the scripture and apply it and not the rest is man creating what man wants to see, not what God has declared. 
    agreed
    I disagree, there is no replacement of Israel or else there would not be anymore mention of Jews and their place in God's plan (Revelation 2:9, 3:9, 7:4-8). In fact your use of Romans 11:25 says there was a temporary hardening of the hearts of Israel, so that the gentiles could come in. Into what? Israel. Then all of Israel will be saved. The Gentiles are Jews by means of the Spirit as you rightly pointed out in Romans 2:28&29. Israel is not going away or being replaced, but rather being added to. 
     
    yes, I agree.
    I feel that the "marriage" is not Christ's appearing, but our acceptance of Jesus as our Lord and Savior. 
    you are going to have to demonstrate with scripture how you tie 144k and the "Bride". Its just not there, and what I see the "Bride" is amounts to much more than a limited number (Galatians 4). 
     
    agreed
     
    again, please connect 144k. All of your explanation falls apart for me without direct correlation of 144k and the "Bride". 
     
    yes, I do. However, no limitations can be set upon God's temple, and those who make up that temple, that God Himself does not limit and scripture does not tell us the number of those who make up the temple of God. Thus God has not told us the limits, it is only by man that those limitations exist. 
     
     
    great discussion, Thank you and I look forward to the next part. 
  19. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Witness in Witness' view of the GB   
    From Rom 8:9 you feel that because the “Spirit of God” and the “Spirit of Christ” are both mentioned, that this indicates two different spirits, am I right?
    Notice what Paul says about the anointed gifts in the Body of Christ;
    Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same[b] Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Cor 12:4-11
    “for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you”  Matt 10:20  Jesus is speaking to the apostles who make up the foundation of the Temple of God, and where God’s Spirit would dwell.  Eph 2:20-22  Jesus is the vine, God is the “vinedresser”.  The anointed who remain in him, are the branches.  Holy Spirit flows from the Father to Christ, and to the branches.  John 15:1-4
    “ Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.  That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. 2 Tim 1:13
    “Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”  John 14:23
    "If I am not doing my Father's works, don't believe me. "But if I am doing them and you don't believe me, believe the works. This way you will know and understand that the Father is in me and I in the Father."  John 10:37,38
     “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.  John 17:20-23
    Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. John 17:17
    “This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.” 1 John 5:6
    “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.  God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:23,24
    It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63
    When Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life”, it is through the Holy Spirit of God that is also within Christ, who is the Way to God  - and God is Truth and Life.
     “And some of you used to be like this. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”  1 Cor 6:11
    John answered them all, "I baptize you with water, but one who is more powerful than I am is coming. I am not worthy to untie the strap of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.  Luke 3:16
    These scriptures also give us this indication.  1 Cor 6:11; John 20:22; 14:16; 3:16; Luke 3:16; Acts 1:5
    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”  John 1:1
    Can you see the oneness of God and Christ; in Spirit, Truth, Life, Word, as well as those who must also speak in God’s Spirit of Truth and Life?  I threw a lot of scriptures at you, but hopefully we can reach the agreement that God’s Spirit is the same spirit that is in Christ. 
    I believe there is a limitation to the number of “living stones” making up the Temple/Body of Christ, because of Zech 4:6-10:
    So he answered and said to me:
    “This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
    ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
    Says the Lord of hosts.
    7 ‘Who are you, O great mountain?
    Before Zerubbabel you shall become a plain!
    And he shall bring forth the capstone
    With shouts of “Grace, grace to it!”’”
     Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying:
    9 “The hands of Zerubbabel
    Have laid the foundation of this temple;
    His hands shall also finish it.
    Then you will know
    That the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.
    10 For who has despised the day of small things?
    For these seven rejoice to see
    The plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
    They are the eyes of the Lord,
    Which scan to and fro throughout the whole earth.”   (Rev 11:1-7)
    These are prophetic words referring to the God’s Temple built on the Body of Christ.  The “capstone” is the last remnant of the 144,000 anointed priesthood to complete Mt. Zion, and who make it through the Great Tribulation.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:9; Eph 2:20; Heb 11:10; Rev 7:15, 2 Chron 23:6; Num 3:10; Rev 5:10
    God may expand the priesthood once the Kingdom is established, for reasons we will know if that times comes. 
    God’s city was the literal Jerusualem, the Temple was the dwelling of God’s spirit. While the anointed are on earth, their “mother” or promise from God is “Jerusalem above”. Gal 4:26 When the faithful ones are sealed into the “heavens”, they become part of the Holy City, because they are symbolically, spiritually, “living stones” of the Temple of God.  1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:20-22; Rev 3:12
    And they are spiritual “Israel”.  The early temple arrangement was a “copy and shadow of the heavenly one”. Only the priesthood among the Israelite nations were chosen to serve in the Temple.  No longer does one’s fleshy nationality matter.  Israel becomes a spiritual nationality under a “promise”.  Heb 8:5; Rom 9:6-9; 11:25,26; 2:28,29; 1 Pet 2:9,10; Jer 31:33; Rev 7:4
    We’ve talked about this, but again, this living Temple, which is the Bride of Christ, will have its presence on earth and in heaven.  Rev 5:9,10; 21:2 Through the Holy Priesthood and Christ, God’s spirit will dwell with mankind.  Rev 21:3,4
    but I see nothing that excludes those of the first covenant from salvation.   
    I don't either.  There is still a resurrection of the "living".  Matt 22:29-32
    God had a covenant with the earthly nation of Israel, comparing it to “marriage”, which was fulfilled by Christ’s appearance on earth.  Under that marriage “contract” life was restored to earthly creation – Christ was the “second Adam”.  Isa 62:4
    Under the fulfilled promised New Covenant, further life will come through Christ in his role as “father” and the 144,000 Bride. Isa 9:6 The “woman” in Revelation gives “birth” to this promise of further life by those anointed ones “laboring” individually to fulfill the promise.  But once fulfilled, no labor is experienced when the rest of God’s children are brought into the Kingdom. 
    She can be considered a “desolate” woman/promise in the time of the end because of Satan’s intent on devouring her, captivating the anointed ones with the delusion of 2 Thess 2:9-12  She is consumed by lies, affliction and oppression; thus, only a remnant returns to God and is saved.  Jer 3:14; 31:7; Luke 17:34-37; Matt 24:28; Rev 11:8; Jer 31:7; Isa 48:20; Matt 24:14, Ezek 34:14; Matt 24:16; Ezek 36:8 
    But even through the lifetime of each anointed one, they “labor” to resist Satan’s afflictions that come upon them.1 Pet 5:8,9  When the “capstone” is in place and Satan is destroyed, the fulfilled “woman”/promise is a reality, bringing forth children without labor. The 144,000/Bride are the materialization, the evidence of that promise.
    There was a remnant saved from the physical nation of Israel, and a remnant of “spiritual Israel” during the time of the end.  Rom 9:22-29; Rev 12:17; 20:7-9; Luke 17:31-37
    “For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. (144,000/Bride)  For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.”
    These children also, become “Israel” fulfilling the promise to Abraham. 
    In Isa 54:11-13 you can see the reference to God’s Temple of “living stones”, with the foundation built on the apostles and prophets within the Body of Christ.  Rev 21:10-14; Eph 2:20
     
     
     
     
  20. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Shiwiii in Witness' view of the GB   
    I agree with all you said here, with one small exception. You mentioned "only one spirit", while I agree, I wonder what you believe about the Spirit of Jesus found in Romans 8:9&10, as I do not think we are on the same page about this.  Is this Spirit of Jesus the same spirit you believe is in the other scriptures you quoted? Here in Romans 8, scripture clearly states that if you do not have the Spirit of Jesus within you, you do not belong to Him (Jesus). 
    Where in scripture do we see any limitation? please provide scriptural support.
    Where is there a mention of a Spiritual Israel in the Bible? A replacement if you will. I see no spiritual Jerusalem, only earthly and heavenly. I agree that the new covenant is under the free woman and that it IS separate from the first covenant, but I see nothing that excludes those of the first covenant from salvation. 
     
    Temple/New Jerusalem/ Bride, yes I agree they are all the same and Galatians tell us that those in this group will outnumber those of the first group. Galatians 4:27 which is a quote from Isaiah 54 says they will outnumber, so there cannot be a limitation to only 144,000 because there are far more than that in the first group. You see, this is where we must understand each other and support our belief with scripture before we can dig deeper.
    There is a bias within some interpretations that some have just accepted without question, and if we do not use scripture to straighten these things out, we will never get past what we have been told. Like the Bereans, we must examine what we are told against scripture to see if what we are being told is true.
  21. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Witness in Witness' view of the GB   
    Hi @Shiwiii,
    I haven’t read your latest comments, but as I said I wanted to try again to comment on your initial thoughts.
    Your words:  “So if one has the spirit of Jesus within them, then they are heirs/sons/daughters/children of God. Now I would make the assumption here that you would agree, since you also state you are anointed. Is this anointing of the Holy Spirit or of the Spirit of the Son (Jesus)? Is it the same? if not, why not”
    Here is what I wrote in my first response:
    There is only one spirit that gives life from God and Christ (John 6:63); only one spirit that brings us to truth, (1 Cor 2:12) but the way we receive Holy spirit can differ, but it always reaches the heart.   In the anointed ones, the Holy Spirit from God dwells within them.  1 Cor 6:19; John 14:17; Matt 10:20; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16
    “Does these scriptures have a limited number of participants who can belong to Christ Jesus? I don't see any. So those who have the Spirit of Jesus within them are called heirs according to Galatians 4.”
    The priesthood has limited number that God will determine, yet, why would he limit those children that are “born” when the New Covenant is fulfilled?
    Is this the two class system? Is this the heavenly vs the earthly destination? Lets keep looking.
    I don’t look at it as a “two class system”.  Jesus fulfilled both promise covenants with the nation of Israel and Abraham. The law covenant with the nation of Israel is symbolized by Hagar, “in slavery with her children” and “born in the manner of flesh”, descendants of Abraham.
     When Jesus died, the New Covenant was established.  It became a symbolic promise of life with Jesus being the first recipient. 1 Cor 15:20,23  Spiritual “Israel” (“Sarah of God”), spiritual “Jerusalem”  - the anointed ones, are now under a covenant/promise with God , the New Covenant. Rom 2:29; 1Pet 3:6; Gal 3:29; 6:15,16; Heb 11:10,13,16; Rev 21:2 This covenant is under the “free woman”, (free from the written law), and through the symbolic “Isaac” – Christ.  Rom 1:6; 8:2; 8:17; 11:18; 12:23;  1 Cor 15:45; Gal 3:14
    “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
        break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
    For the children of the desolate one will be more
        than those of the one who has a husband.”
    This occurs when the “woman”/ “New Covenant” is fulfilled by the full number of faithful priests/Temple/”New Jerusalem”/Bride (they are all the same), when they are sealed. We know the purpose of this promise is to bring forth seed, which is the “144,000”/Bride, completing the heavenly Temple. Zech 4:7 Christ began the Temple as the cornerstone, with the apostles and prophets comprising the foundation.  Each anointed one is a “living stone”; if faithful and obedient, they are added/sealed into the Temple forever.   That is the first step toward the fulfillment of the next “promise”, God’s Kingdom and the rest of Abraham’s offspring.  Can you see how the union of the Bride (Sarah) with Christ brings forth more children – without the pain and suffering that the 144,000 had to endure in order to be sanctified?  Rev 12:2
     
     
  22. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Shiwiii in Witness' view of the GB   
    yes it has. I cannot be angry at other's opinions, everyone is different. The part where I get what you call "angry" is when the conversations turn into personal attacks with no basis other than a difference of view. 
    I will read this, but I cannot accept that it is YOUR opinion. It is the opinion of the wt, while you may agree it still is not put forth in your words and vision. 
     
    I omitted the actual parts of scripture to keep the thread from becoming too long. We can read the fullness above in previous posts. 
     
    I'm not quite sure were it is derived that Sarah is God's wife. I'd like if you could expand on that if you can. 
    If we take the scripture you gave (and I did too) Galatians 4:26, it says that she represents "Jerusalem from above" and compare that with Revelation 21. We see that Sarah/Jerusalem from above is the Bride of Christ/wife of the Lamb. 
    Revelation 21:
    2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 
    9 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,
     
    I feel this clearly tells us that Sarah represents those who make up the Bride of Christ. These that are of Sarah/Jerusalem from above will outnumber those of the first covenant (Israel). 
     
    I agree to a point. We can go deeper later. The reason why I say this is because the way I read this and the way you read this is totally different even though the words are the same. Correct me if I am wrong here, but I think you see this statement as having a limitation to who are joint heirs. I just don't see it that way, but we can discuss that later once we wrap our minds around "Jerusalem from above".
     
     I agree on the first century Jews being represented by Ishmael and the covenant. I do not agree that God has cast Israel aside and replaced the Jews. Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 speak of those who slander the Jews or claim to be Jews and are not. This contrast alone should prove that God still has a plan for the Jews. If God condemns those who claim to be Jews but are not, then there has to be some value to being a Jew at that point in time (future as revelation is future). 
     
     
    Angels do not reproduce and thus the term "barren" wouldn't really apply.
    Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
    we see here that angels are not given in marriage, and marriage is for the populating of the Earth as God said in Genesis. This continues to explain why the rest of your statement needs more clarification, but we will get to that later. 
    I don't think we are at this point yet, but I am looking forward to this when we get there. 
     
    Again, we must first understand each others opinion on "Jerusalem from above" before we can dive in to the other parts. That doesn't mean we have to agree, but understand; supported by scripture.  Otherwise we are playing a game of ping pong, bouncing from this topic to that topic. 
  23. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Srecko Sostar in Witness' view of the GB   
    It is very nice that you put two translations of same verse, perhaps it will be good to use more of it. Because NWT have some err. 
    it is not the same when NWT say - "obey your leaders" but Jesus said one is your leader, (so this is very big err in NWT), and if we hear "have confidence" NIV, but in all that one thing is more important - elders have to earn that trust from the people.
    BUT my prime reason to respond on your comment above was this: It is not matter if  "one brings division into the church", in fact it is good to put on test and fire human doctrines, AND JESUS SUPPORT THAT TOO. YOU ASK HOW? READ THE BIBLE PLEASE. JESUS SAID: 
    34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
    “‘a man against his father,
        a daughter against her mother,
    a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
    36     a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
    37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it. – Jesus (Matthew 10:34-38)
    According to this i am afraid that you are not familiar with "bible  principles, prophesies, teachings and many more". :))))

     
  24. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Srecko Sostar in Witness' view of the GB   
    For me, all is human, men's commentary here. Some looks like your yin yang circle in black and white, some have colors .... and we all need to test all those ideas, logic, reason. We all do that with more or less success.
    "... the Pharisees and the teachers of the law..." (aka GB scholars) can be furious on some JW members liberty to put in questions their doctrines and instructions BUT that is normal because Bible also said so - "test the spirit...." 1.John 4:1-5. If some dare to test the spirit of GB he/she is not doing nothing that would be against "bible principles"   
  25. Downvote
    Cognitionis reacted to Srecko Sostar in Witness' view of the GB   
    "If we were following a man undoubtedly it would be different with us; undoubtedly one human idea would contradict another and that which was light one or two or six years ago would be regarded as darkness now: But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from god must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. New light never extinguishes older light, but adds to it. If you were lighting up a building containing seven gas jets you would not extinguish one every time you lighted another, but would add one light to another and they would be in harmony and thus give increase of light. So is it with the light of truth; the true increase is by adding to, not by substituting one for another." (Watchtower Feb. 1, 1881, Reprints p. 188)
    This quote is standpoint of former GB, in 1881. Today GB have different view on same issue. Some future GB (if would be in existence at all) will do the same as this days GB members.  Will change doctrines and proclaim outdated learnings as "old light".   In other words, they will give up from their predecessors, former GB members  Which of these time-varying GB groups has more "spirit" that they be able to claim how "this WTJWorg is god's spirit guided organization"? haha, ...and in what time period what GB group has more "spirit" in governing the Corp-org?  
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