BillyTheKid46

@JW Insider  Quote "Those who have seen the evil in people up close and personally may actually have a keener "intuitive" sense of potential evil. Or perhaps that "intuitive" sense has been destroyed for the same reasons. I have no idea, so I am not trying to answer John directly on this topic."
In a nutshell. I suffered 3½ years of sexual abuse, physical abuse and emotional abuse in a Children's Home, from age 13 to 16½. It was suffer and keep quiet, or be moved into an Approved School, which i was assured was 10 times worse.  We didn't have sex education back then so i was very nieve, and I was under the 'care' of the council (local government) so could not just walk away from it. I could not report it to the police as they were all part of the same system and i would have been 'moved'.  

No, I said that I don't ... when in Field Service .... if memory serves.
Therein lies the problem.

@TrueTomHarley  Ok let's take one step at a time with your over long comment. Over long deliberately to deceive people, to try to take people away from the true points of my comment. Nice try Tom.
1. I quote " This is exactly how it was in the Jewish nation, per laws given to Moses, that serve as a last-ditch method of discipline."
No in the Jewish nation people were born into it, they did not volunteer themselves into it. A big difference. Hence I've said before, children should not be baptised, they should have to wait until they are 'adult' age, then it would be voluntary. 
When  a person volunteers themself to be a JW (gets baptised) they think, at the time, that they are 'giving their life to God'. But in truth they are joining the JWOrg /W/t / GB run club. However it is voluntary, not born into. Big difference. 
But once a person is in that 'club' they become ensnared. They are told not to mix with people 'in the world', not to do business with 'people in the world', always bo no part of that 'wicked world. So of course they build their whole world around the JW Org . W/t, GB.  Then they are trapped. All their eggs in one basket.  If they leave the 'club' they lose everything, in a sense.
However as I've found by leaving that 'club', it does not mean turning my back on God or Jesus Christ. 
2. Many witnesses openly admit that they are physically in / mentally-spiritually out.
You took this and tried to make a comedy out of it. It didn't work Tom.  It didn't work because so many people know that many JW's are not 'fully committed' to your GB and it's JW Org. I think it was James that said that many JW's don't even use the NWT bible. 
As for doing preaching hours, it only takes ½ an hour PER MONTH to put in a Monthly Report. 
3. Quote "There is no NT writer who does not deal with apostates. If they existed then, why would they not exist now? "
It is so easy for you, the Gb and the Org to use that silly word Apostates. I say silly because it loses its meaning by overuse. 
The NT writers suffered opposition from Jews that did not believe that Jesus was the Christ / Messiah,  or did not want to let go of the power they had. And from the Romans of course. However those 'writers' were inspired of God and could do works to PROVE it. 
What the GB / JW Org / W/t is suffering now is not opposition to God or Jesus Christ, it is opposition to false teachings, opposition to man made rules, opposition to Child Sexual abuse in the JW Org / w/t, opposition to the GB demanding that they are seen as the only 'Faithful and discreet slave',  opposition to oppression from Elders, get the picture. 
Your GB cannot prove that they have the authority to give themselves the position they do give themselves. (Remember your argument about proving the Trinity). They do not have WORKS to PROVE their authority.
Tom you should probably carry on writing fairy stories as you seem to live in that sort of a 'world', a dream world.  

Did you tell him that?

Yikes. It's hard to believe it could be so "all or nothing." As you say, if we can't think like you, we won't really be able to understand. But it reminds me of a recent discussion about how God commanded "love" from the nation of Israel. They say you can't legislate love, but for some I suppose, even this idea can be a "tutor" leading to Christ. We go through the motions of love until we are responding the way a loving person responds, whether we think we have the same feelings most others do or not. For thousands of years, people have spoken this way about arranged marriages. It's the same part of Corinthians I just quoted from to Tom where the apostle Paul said:
(1 Corinthians 9:16-19) . . .Now if I am declaring the good news, it is no reason for me to boast, for necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe to me if I do not declare the good news! 17 If I do this willingly, I have a reward; but even if I do it against my will, I still have a stewardship entrusted to me. 18 What, then, is my reward? That when I declare the good news, I may offer the good news without cost, to avoid abusing my authority in the good news. 19 For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible.
Sorry to second-guess, but I can just imagine that you would quickly focus on the expression "abusing my authority in the good news" and turn this into another comment about the GB. But my point is that we can also work alongside people we don't necessarily trust, and still accomplish some good. If and when we see them abuse their authority, we can point it out as Paul often did, but Paul also reminded the Corinthians here that it was OK for them to support (materially) some of those ministers who asked for material support, even though Paul wanted none of that for himself.

I was looking for an 80 percent up-vote emoji, (🤔?) but I gave you a full up-vote anyway because I think you have hit the target so well with several statements like the one I just re-quoted. I get the sense you are able to "aiming your blows so as not to be striking the air" and "not running aimlessly."
(1 Corinthians 9:24-27) 24 Do you not know that the runners in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win it. 25 Now everyone competing in a contest exercises self-control in all things. Of course, they do it to receive a crown that can perish, but we, one that does not perish. 26 Therefore, the way I am running is not aimlessly; the way I am aiming my blows is so as not to be striking the air; 27 but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.
Of course, it's not about striking back at others' arguments, but how we continually train ourselves to keep the faith with so many obstacles about. One of the obstacles will always be our own human failings, and how we keep trying to fix these, to become the "approved" person we ought to be. We don't have to broadcast our personal failings, and most of us won't; so we might always give the appearance that we are more concerned about the failings of those around us. Most of the time, we watch how we walk, but there are times when we should give attention to the failings of those around us, and watch how they walk.
This is one of the reasons for this topic, because someone is concerned about the potential failings of another. To some it will look like paranoia, but some persons have a more protective and sometimes "hovering" sense. Reminds me of Jesus' words:  (Matthew 23:37) . . .how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it.
Those who have seen the evil in people up close and personally may actually have a keener "intuitive" sense of potential evil. Or perhaps that "intuitive" sense has been destroyed for the same reasons. I have no idea, so I am not trying to answer John directly on this topic.
But to follow up on Paul's words about how we fight the fine fight of the faith for ourselves, Jude shows how we must also watch out for obstacles set by others:
(Jude 3-13) . . .Beloved ones, although I was making every effort to write you about the salvation we hold in common, I found it necessary to write you to urge you to put up a hard fight for the faith that was once for all time delivered to the holy ones. 4 My reason is that certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ. . . . 12 These are the rocks hidden below water at your love feasts while they feast with you, shepherds who feed themselves without fear; waterless clouds carried here and there by the wind; fruitless trees in late autumn, having died twice and having been uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea that cast up the foam of their own shame; stars with no set course, for which the blackest darkness stands reserved forever.

Some do!

@BillyTheKid46 Quote  " The irony, you attack the GB when your heart in no better than the soulless being you present, not just here but elsewhere. "
The difference being that i don't pretend to know the truth, and i don't want power over others. I don't make rules for others to follow. I do not mislead anyone as I do not try to 'take the lead' in any way. 
I do not pretend that i am the 'Faithful and discreet slave' of God through Christ. 
And I'm not frightened to admit that i have no love or trust in anyone. 
But then i don't hide pedophiles either, and I don't tell people how tight or loose their clothes should be. I don't make up rules about who can speak to who. I don't write magazines that tell deliberate lies about what God requires of us. I don't make up rules about the use of blood and then change those rules at a later date. 
I am only responsible for me. Your GB has made itself responsible for millions of people, but they have no proof that the responsibility is guided by God or Christ. 
Your GB has no love of people, only love of power over people. Your GB does not care about the victims of Child Sexual Abuse, they only care about 'their' money being spent in compensation. 
Your GB is prepared to sacrifice innocent lives to cover up the wickedness of the W/t and the JW Org.
Your GB 'cleans the outside of the dish or bowl, but leaves the inside full of disgusting things'.
And you Billy just worship your GB so much that you are completely blind to it all.
 

... by the way ... my suppressed .22 cal. scoped rifle is ONLY used for target practice, and very limited self defense, if ever needed .... but I bought it to shoot out overhead street lights to blackout a neighborhood, for rescue attempts.
... but that is another story, from many years ago.

I will have to belatedly agree with you BTK ... a scoped 50 caliber sniper rifle, as you have admitting owning, but reticent to relate how you acquired it, is NOT a defensive weapon, except in warfare.
  It is obviously, to everyone who knows about such things, an OFFENSIVE weapon for preemptive strikes.
This claim of yours is new (please show evidence if I am wrong ...).
Here is the clincher: How often do you hunt game with your sniper rifle, and what have you bagged. If you do not have a truthful answer, you are living in a fantasy world of your own manufacture.
 
 

Why TTH, I did not know you had a Japanese accent when typing!

Yes Billy I'm married to one, but I don't trust her and she knows that. 
The children know that I don't trust them either. 
i once wrote on my FB page :-
Which is worse : Love based on lies, or, Hate based on truth. 
You see Billy i am not you. I do not think like you. I do not act like you. I do not have the feelings / emotions like you. 
When you and others, begin to see other people, as OTHER people, not as people like you, then you and others may just start to begin to understand that not all of us live by the same rules.
You are trying to tell me I trust my wife because I'm married to her. Wrong. The trust died many years ago. 
I have no love for anyone, no trust in anyone. It does not mean that I hate people, it simply means I have no feelings for  them. 
I demand nothing, I expect nothing, therefore i no longer get disappointed by anyone. 
 
 

Ok back from travels, so continued reply to Tom's questions.
When @JW Insider reveals a matter that would otherwise remain confidential, do you rush straight to your keyboard and tell your 900 friends?
No, I mainly upload 'news articles' direct as i find them. But the reason for starting the FB page was to get opinions from others. It hasn't happened much. But I'm not in need of 'limelight' by giving information that others don't have. I just make available on the page things that are general news items. I also advertise this forum in the hope that more people will visit here. 
 Did you make it when the opportunity was ripe? Did your testimony send school and/or government perpetrators  to jail? I hope you had that opportunity and I hope you came to enjoy some sense of justice because of it. 
I contacted Reading Council (using the Data Protection Act) and obtained some personal details of my time in the Home, but much of it was 'detracted', is that the right word, scribbled out anyway with black print. One page was completely blacked out. But I was told I had to use the 'Freedom of Information Act' to obtain details about other people / staff that ran the home at that time. However to gain that info' I had to attend the office, ask for files, find sections that were relevant, and inwardly digest the words, because I would not be allowed to copy, photograph or write notes concerning that information. That would involve a 130 mile trip to Reading, a stay overnight or two, and for what, just  read the info and not record it. 
Then the worse thing happened, the Jimmy Savile scandal started. It was all over the news about how he had abused children etc. It began to involve more 'well known' people and just escalated... So I stopped my investigation into the Children's Home staff etc, as it would have looked as if I was just jumping on the bandwagon. I know I should have done it all many years earlier but I didn't, and I wanted to do as much investigating myself as I could. So I never completed that 'mission'. Since the Jimmy Savile situation the Child Abuse investigations have grown more and more, about different people in different situations, including in religions. 
Do you also make clear that your hair-trigger sensitivity on this issue has nothing to do with Jehovah’s Witnesses?
If ever I talk to people about my past situation I do make it perfectly clear that it did not involve Jehovah's Witnesses. 
However, the link is that whilst I was still in a vulnerable state mentally / emotionally, I joined the JW organisation as it 'seemed' a safe and loving environment. It turns out that at that time, late 60's / early 70's, in some places, the Org was at its worst regarding Child Sexual Abuse. Many of the cases that have come into courts and are still coming into courts around the globe,  seem to centre around that era. 
But having been on here a while now, I have read comments from people that have also known about more recent cases. So although many of those cases are 'old news' it does not mean that it has all stopped. 
Hopefully that answers your questions @TrueTomHarley

@TrueTomHarley On your Facebook page, do you also post the background that you have bravely posted  here, background that accounts for your extreme sensitivity on the subject:
Just two points on this one comment from Tom.
1. The FB page is not about me personally so no i don't go into details about me. It was set up to try to get feedback from others that are in the same position as me, Ex -JW's still wanting to serve God.  I put up news articles but very little personal stuff. 
2. There is nothing brave about me giving personal details, it was done more in context as it was sort of hinted at by a previous comment. This page it seems has become more personal, people throwing mud at others rather that discussing subjects. If you think i am extreme so be it, that is your thoughts. From my viewpoint it is just that I DO HAVE personal experience of this so I DO KNOW how it feels and the results that never fade. Whereas many on here and in JW Org just see it as collateral damage.

If he is still alive, he might answer the phone, and tell you ... or it may go to voicemail.

I have never communicated with Greg Stafford in any way, although I did communicate several times with one of his friends and associates, Rolf Furuli. Furuli indicated that Stafford's NT Greek is excellent and that he writes meticulously on the topic of Trinity. I never had any interest in engaging Trinitarians because I think it's a "done deal." So there's really nothing left to talk about. At Bethel, someone had to do some research on Trinity, and managed to find some fairly new information that could be related to John 1:1 from Philo. It was the last time I ever showed any interest in it, because there is just so much out there, but it's all so repetitious.
*** w85 12/15 p. 25 “The Word Was With God, and the Word Was . . . ”? ***
In 1984 there appeared in English a translation from German of a commentary by scholar Ernst Haenchen (Das Johannesevangelium. Ein Kommentar). It renders John 1:1: “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and divine [of the category divinity] was the Logos.”—John 1. A Commentary on the Gospel of John Chapters 1-6, page 108, translated by Robert W. Funk.
Philo has therefore written: the λόγος [Logos] means only θεός (‘divine’) and not ὁ θεός (‘God’) since the logos is not God in the strict sense. . . . In a similar fashion, Origen, too, interprets: the Evangelist does not say that the logos is ‘God,’ but only that the logos is ‘divine.’ In fact, for the author of the hymn [in John 1:1], as for the Evangelist, only the Father was ‘God’ (ὁ θεός; cf. 17:3); ‘the Son’ was subordinate to him (cf. 14:28). But that is only hinted at in this passage because here the emphasis is on the proximity of the one to the other.”
A German-speaking brother translated that portion in 1981, because the book was only out in German at that time. I think it's an excellent explanation of John 1:1. I'm curious now if Greg Stafford uses it in his books.
I see he has several different books in several versions on a website here: http://www.elihubooks.com/content/books_media.php
That same site also has Rolf Furuli's book about Bible Translation selling on it, right next to Stafford's book: "Jehovah's Witnesses Defended." Made me think that Stafford might still be a JW, because I'm pretty sure Rolf Furuli still is. Haven't spoken to Furuli in several years now, although he sent me his books for free. I sent money anyway, but it was a nice gesture.
To the chagrin of some here, I have already told of brothers in the Writing Department, and even a few Governing Body members, who didn't fully accept 1914 (including GB members: Chitty, Swingle, Schroeder, Sydlik, R.Franz). For those who know the background discussions going on at the time --actually even since the late 1960's-- that might seem understandable. But another member of the Writing Department told me something that was less believable. He says that in the 1990's there was a brother in the Writing Department, brilliant with NT Greek, who actually came to believe, not in the Trinity, per se, but in Jesus Christ's full divinity. He evidently came to believe that John 1:1 says what traditional Trinitarians think it says. He had no problem with anything else as far as I was told, and I don't know how much longer he tried to stay and work with the Writing Department. But naturally, when it was more widely known, he was out of there.
I have a feeling this is one of the most rare things, to see a former brother who STUDIED the topic, start believing in that part of the Trinity. I would lose any last bit of respect for Stafford if he turns out to have gone back to believing in the Trinity, or parts thereof. Does anyone know?

If I have a right to expect perfection from others ..... they have a right to expect it from me.
And I KNOW, I am a Barbarian.
 
Of course ... there ARE limits .......

If I was you, TTH, I would worry less about Gregg G. Stafford's efforts to turn Jehovah's Witnesses' life, culture, and theology into museum pieces, and more about the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses doing just that.
The efforts of the GB cause millions of people to "come into the Truth", but they also chase millions of people away, after they do.
It's like a person who makes his fortune in New York City, and finds that the City and State do not consider him to be a citizen, as much as they consider him a cash cow.
There is nothing more portable than people with money who are tired of being treated badly by State and local governing bodies, and when they find they have no voice at all to protest this treatment, they realize that they can vote with their feet, and take their wallets with them, leaving the States and Cities to become museum pieces in a slow, tragic death spiral. 
Detroit is a classic example ...one of many.
The same is becoming more and more true about Jehovah's Witnesses, who often, unless they are mindless sycophants,  chafe and tire of the uninspired and erroneous, and heavy handed (in a silk glove) treatment they get in pursuing equity and Justice, and Truth.
So ... they take the Truth they have with them, and their wallets with them, like spilled gold dust disappearing  through cracks in the floor.
They too ... vote with their feet ... and their wallets ... leaving the Organization to be surrounded with sycophants, admiring their Telly Awards, and cartoon evangelizers.
"We have seen the Enemy" .... and He is Us"   -   Pogo
 
( The reason I stay, is I have a very high pain tolerance, and expect nothing from anybody ... and $30 every few months  is all I can afford, and I allocate that to "local needs".)
 

nope, left in 2007
 
In 2007, Greg G. Stafford officially disassociated from the Watchtower Society, the official name of the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
He continues to refer to himself as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and continues to defend the religion’s unique teachings — but also addresses what he considers to be doctrines and practices for which, in his view, there is no biblical support, but which are nevertheless taught by the Watchtower Society.
Such dissent is not possible within the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, which refers to itself as the “faithful and discreet slave’ organization” 

I did say it's not a lot but it's a few people looking and reading what's there.  i can hardly put on a 'broadcast' can I ? 
And i can't start up a magazine, and I'm not up to writing a book, like you.  However there is enough news media /reports out there now thanks to all the efforts of victims, ex-JW's and others that have made things known earthwide. And whether you agree or not, i think it has made the GB / Org make changes. Changes that would not otherwise have been made. And on my 'travels' here and elsewhere (many will roam about) I have found out much more than I originally knew. It has been and still is a great learning curve.  

@TrueTomHarley  Um, the GB / org do not do social media, ok. But they do broadcasts.
But I'm sure I've seen evidence that when people want to talk to the GB face to face, to ask questions ect, the GB have refused interviews and conversations.  The GB seem to live behind locked gates. So how is a person to express their feelings or ask questions ?  Obvious answer is social media.  
Plus, many of us feel the need to warn other people about the dangers of the JW Org. Where is better than social media ? 
My FB page about Ex JW's has just reached :-  You've just reached 900 Page likes. Good job!
It's not a lot but i don't promote it and hardly upload anything to it. People are finding it. People are talking about it, so it does a small amount of good. If I can give a few people a little information about the problems in the JW Org the n I'm happy to do just that. 
We can agree on this one thing  “wisdom is proved righteous by its works.” Hence its easy to see that the GB are not wise in a spiritual way.  Of course they may have the 'wisdom of the world' with their high paid Lawyers doing their dirty work for them, just as the Romans did the dirty work for the religious leaders of the Jews, buy killing Jesus. 
Quote : The common view of opposers is that the Witness headship is telling members what to do,.... 
Tom, do you really forget that most people you call 'opposers' are actually Ex JW's ?  They have been there, witnessed it all. It's not hearsay it's real experiences. You know, more real than those 'experiences' they do on the 'platform'.  Who are you trying to fool  Tom ? Yourself maybe. 

work alongside people we don't necessarily trust. Children do it all the time. Some people say Look at those children playing together', but when you look closely you will see children playing alongside each other. Each child is doing their own thing.   
The secret is not to get emotional about it. Life can be very practical. Being retired I can choose what I do and when I do it. My wife chooses what she will do and when she will do it. Sometimes we choose to go places together. We share the housework. She cooks I wash up. She visits her mum and the children, i work on the cars and do the garden :) 
None of it involves trust or love. It is just practical living. 
As for people outside, I have no need to trust anyone, I'm quite independent at the moment.  Mixing with people does not involve trust. I go to auctions to view and sometimes buy,  i converse with the staff and others there but it does not involve trust. 
Think deeply for a while, how many things truly involve trust? Most things in life are just practical or natural things. 

You mean your work (as single, not as we)  can accomplish some good ?  :))
I think how in this complexity of Trust Issue (on various fields, in various places and with various people) things are in so wide specter of colors with much/lot, lot of white and black too.  
But, main thing is thus, if you not trust someone , or have lost your trust in someone ... wall is very big/high.

I thought you said many JW's use the American Standard Version or something like that. Sorry if i misquoted you. 

Good point. This is why there are probably a dozen topics and at least 100 rumors and even well-known, documented incidents that I will never say anything about. There are even specific things that I made promises to the people involved not to talk about. If those incidents happen to make an important point, or provide a learning or teaching opportunity, there are always other ways or other available examples that can help make the same point.