AlanF

But you continue to miss the crucial point: the anointed are not supposed to get together and discuss spiritual things.

You're asking questions impossible for JWs to answer without exposing the contradictions inherent in their worship of the Governing Body, i.e., their equating its words with God's words. They get to the heart of whether JW elders are actually appointed by holy spirit, or merely in the self-deceiving sense that the Pope is appointed by holy spirit.

So wow, you found one person to fit your purpose, congratulations. 
If ex JW's can prove how wrong the GB and JW Org are, then they are serving God's purpose to either clean up that Org or to get rid of it, so that God through Christ can use it or replace it with true worshippers. 
If your GB tell Anointed brothers and sisters not to contact each other, then that is obviously wrong, as those brothers and sisters are of the same BODY OF CHRIST. 
Did God use the Romans to destroy Jerusalem ? Or did God just remove His protection from Jerusalem ? 
Is God using ex JW's or just allowing them to do HIS work ? 

Mr Harley it  looks like you are laying a road not writing a comment and IMO it is to hide half of what you have actually written, because you know yourself it is complete tosh.  So you have made it difficult for anyone to comment on it by writing for five miles long. 
However, quote . 
' It used to be announced from time to time that “so and so has been disfellowshipped.” For several years now—what is it? maybe 10? it is “so and so is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
It gets the job done, and it avoids the problem of being attacked over the fact that “disfellowship” is not a word that appears in the Bible.. '
Oh dear, how sad you are. Was it ever announced that 'so and so has left the JW's ?  Because the obvious reason for this 'newish' way of telling it, is purely to hide the FACT that many JW's are actually LEAVING the JW Org. The GB wishes to hide the numbers of those disassociating themselves from JW Org. 
Add to this that may Victims of CSA  have said they were d'fed for either complaining to the Elders or to outside authorities. So now the GB can, through it's 'police dept' (elders), d'fed someone who has suffered CSA but does not have enough proof, but that still complains to the elders. The elders can still threaten d'fed action with or without  the new 'rule book'. 
Quote " They think of “treat him as a tax collector and man of the nations,” that Jews had “no dealings” with. "
Are but we are not Jews, we are NOT under Mosaic Law. JESUS would eat meals in the homes of Tax Collectors. Wasn't Matthew a Tax Collector ?  And the disciples / apostles went out to the people of the nations to gather them to God. 
Quote " They think of “not even eating with such a man, "  BUT you have forgotten the whole scripture here. 
New International Version
But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
So tell me o worshipper of the GB, what is the case if a person leaves the JW Org, and no longer calls himself / herself a brother or sister ? That scripture cannot applyote "
Quote " it is indisputably the Bible that directs congregation members. It is the Bible that tells them what to do, "
You are having a laugh Mr Harley. Congregants know who are pulling the strings, but congregants love being puppets. It means they do not have to think or have a conscience. If they go wrong they can blame the Org for it's misdirection. They, like you, worship the GB.
Quote "The only “sin” that the “corporation” has committed is educating members as to what the Bible says on all aspects of life. "
Oh if only it was the only sin. You are so blinkered. GB / Org sins include, CSA, disfellowshipping for false reasons,  Telling the Anointed not to contact each other,  pretending to be the F&DS, telling lies to congregants and to the world by false teachings, Telling lies in Courts and probably many more. 
But i won't be so selfish as to take up as much space as you did My Harley............. 
 
 

Srecko Sostar said:
That's right, and is according to standard English word usage. "Jehovah's Witnesses" is a proper noun, a name. "Jehovah's witnesses" is a generic group claiming to be witnesses for Jehovah, which of course, any group can do.
Exactly!
This is completely lost on braindead JWs who think they're serving Jehovah rather than the Watchtower Society.

Wow! TrueTomHarley, aka Vic Vomidog, here quotes himself several times, after mistakenly taking me to task for quoting myself. Of course, he had simply misread my post.
A process like that has been going on a lot longer. Until some time in the 1960s DF'ings were announced with something like "so and so has been disfellowshipped for fornication". At some point, I don't remember exactly when, that was changed to "for conduct unbecoming a Christian". At least one lawsuit was brought for libel or whatever, resulting in simply "has been disfellowshipped", to avoid liability for defamation.
But that's exactly what it is. Such conduct is precisely what pegs the JWs as a "high control group". I.e., a cult.
It is rarely necessary. It is also more than a bit arbitrary. I've seen cases where one judicial committee decided to disfellowship, and upon appeal another reversed it. Occasionally the Society itself is called in to resolve the matter.
In theory, yes. In practice, it's often simply a punishment visited upon someone by corrupt elders, or even corrupt Watchtower officials.
The "well-being of the congregation" is entirely subjective. Many JWs have quit and disappeared into the woodwork, only to find years later that some corrupt elder from his old congregation--even a decade later--has tracked him down and initiated DF'ing action. Something like this happened with my wife, so don't tell it doesn't happen.
It can't. But the Society is completely hypocritical about this. It has a specific policy that if someone quietly becomes inactive, elders should leave him alone. This is usually the case, but not always. There is always the chance that corrupt elders will actively pursue the person and try to DF him. Such a person has no chance that an appeal will reverse the DF'ing. And often his relationship with still-JW relatives is permanently ruined.
To be consistent, the Society would have to have a policy where someone simply leaving the cult would be officially designated as "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" and shunned accordingly. But that is even more cultish than the present policy is, and the Society knows it. A policy of "you cannot leave without dire consequences" would result in massive lawsuits, being a Mafiaesque policy.
Those scriptures are grossly misapplied. 1 Corinthians 5:11 has Paul telling people to avoid mixing in company with "anyone called a brother" who violates certain moral standards. But if someone leaves the cult and fails to do the various normal JW activities, JWs no longer view him as a brother, and so, following the Bible's words, such a person should logically no longer be subject to congregational ostracism.
Nonsense. It is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, through its various subsidiary corporations, that directs congregation members. If this Society changed its corporate policies on DF'ing and all manner of other things, all congregations would follow--on pain of DF'ing for "ignoring Lordship" or something like that.
Ah, a better statement of "the Watchtower Society's words are the same as God's words" can hardly be found. As the May 1, 1957 Watchtower said (p.274):
<< If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother. >>
That's all pretense. Every JW knows, on some level, that even if he can demonstrate from the Bible that some Watchtower teaching or policy is unscriptural, he must follow the Watchtower Society, on pain of disfellowshipping. The Society's direct violation of Jesus' commands in Luke 21:7-8 proves it.
As I told a Watchtower official 20 years ago, if the Society cleaned up its act with regard to three things--blood, child abuse and disfellowshippiing--almost all opposition would dry up. There's virtually no chance of that, and opposition will continue.
That would be a good thing, especially in view of the Society's policy of encouraging very young people to join the JW cult. A young person baptized at 10 years of age should not be held to adult standards of conduct, nor be disfellowshipped--not for any reason. Such a young person had no real understanding, on an adult level, of what baptism means--an explicit and apparently legally binding joining of the JW cult.
Totally and self-servingly wrong. The gross brainwashing characteristic of JWs means that they only think they're obeying God rather than men. But the fact that when the Watchtower Society tells them to believe something the opposite of what they had believed, or to act in an opposite manner, proves that it is the Society, not the Bible, that controls their minds.
Yes, we're having coffee together.
Some do, some do. So what?
[ Irrelevant ramblings deleted ]
My experience was quite the opposite. By age 24, in 1975, I was not the least interested in being a "servant" of any kind. Nevertheless, I was appointed as a Ministerial Servant. How? One Thursday evening, during the Service Meeting, and without ever having told me, the Presiding Overseer announced, "Alan has been appointed ..." I was quite angry but held my peace, and began duties as the Accounts Servant. I swallowed my resentment.
But I was painfully aware that, contrary to Watchtower teaching, I had NOT been appointed by holy spirit. In fact, it was that breach of my free will that helped me understand the Society's deception on "appointment by holy spirit". I saw plenty of exceptions to that rule.
So as usual, TTH/Vic, you don't know what you're talking about. You're much like what God did in the Bible story of "Balaam's Ass".

Srecko Sostar said:
That's right, and is according to standard English word usage. "Jehovah's Witnesses" is a proper noun, a name. "Jehovah's witnesses" is a generic group claiming to be witnesses for Jehovah, which of course, any group can do.
Exactly!
This is completely lost on braindead JWs who think they're serving Jehovah rather than the Watchtower Society.

Wow! TrueTomHarley, aka Vic Vomidog, here quotes himself several times, after mistakenly taking me to task for quoting myself. Of course, he had simply misread my post.
A process like that has been going on a lot longer. Until some time in the 1960s DF'ings were announced with something like "so and so has been disfellowshipped for fornication". At some point, I don't remember exactly when, that was changed to "for conduct unbecoming a Christian". At least one lawsuit was brought for libel or whatever, resulting in simply "has been disfellowshipped", to avoid liability for defamation.
But that's exactly what it is. Such conduct is precisely what pegs the JWs as a "high control group". I.e., a cult.
It is rarely necessary. It is also more than a bit arbitrary. I've seen cases where one judicial committee decided to disfellowship, and upon appeal another reversed it. Occasionally the Society itself is called in to resolve the matter.
In theory, yes. In practice, it's often simply a punishment visited upon someone by corrupt elders, or even corrupt Watchtower officials.
The "well-being of the congregation" is entirely subjective. Many JWs have quit and disappeared into the woodwork, only to find years later that some corrupt elder from his old congregation--even a decade later--has tracked him down and initiated DF'ing action. Something like this happened with my wife, so don't tell it doesn't happen.
It can't. But the Society is completely hypocritical about this. It has a specific policy that if someone quietly becomes inactive, elders should leave him alone. This is usually the case, but not always. There is always the chance that corrupt elders will actively pursue the person and try to DF him. Such a person has no chance that an appeal will reverse the DF'ing. And often his relationship with still-JW relatives is permanently ruined.
To be consistent, the Society would have to have a policy where someone simply leaving the cult would be officially designated as "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses" and shunned accordingly. But that is even more cultish than the present policy is, and the Society knows it. A policy of "you cannot leave without dire consequences" would result in massive lawsuits, being a Mafiaesque policy.
Those scriptures are grossly misapplied. 1 Corinthians 5:11 has Paul telling people to avoid mixing in company with "anyone called a brother" who violates certain moral standards. But if someone leaves the cult and fails to do the various normal JW activities, JWs no longer view him as a brother, and so, following the Bible's words, such a person should logically no longer be subject to congregational ostracism.
Nonsense. It is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, through its various subsidiary corporations, that directs congregation members. If this Society changed its corporate policies on DF'ing and all manner of other things, all congregations would follow--on pain of DF'ing for "ignoring Lordship" or something like that.
Ah, a better statement of "the Watchtower Society's words are the same as God's words" can hardly be found. As the May 1, 1957 Watchtower said (p.274):
<< If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother. >>
That's all pretense. Every JW knows, on some level, that even if he can demonstrate from the Bible that some Watchtower teaching or policy is unscriptural, he must follow the Watchtower Society, on pain of disfellowshipping. The Society's direct violation of Jesus' commands in Luke 21:7-8 proves it.
As I told a Watchtower official 20 years ago, if the Society cleaned up its act with regard to three things--blood, child abuse and disfellowshippiing--almost all opposition would dry up. There's virtually no chance of that, and opposition will continue.
That would be a good thing, especially in view of the Society's policy of encouraging very young people to join the JW cult. A young person baptized at 10 years of age should not be held to adult standards of conduct, nor be disfellowshipped--not for any reason. Such a young person had no real understanding, on an adult level, of what baptism means--an explicit and apparently legally binding joining of the JW cult.
Totally and self-servingly wrong. The gross brainwashing characteristic of JWs means that they only think they're obeying God rather than men. But the fact that when the Watchtower Society tells them to believe something the opposite of what they had believed, or to act in an opposite manner, proves that it is the Society, not the Bible, that controls their minds.
Yes, we're having coffee together.
Some do, some do. So what?
[ Irrelevant ramblings deleted ]
My experience was quite the opposite. By age 24, in 1975, I was not the least interested in being a "servant" of any kind. Nevertheless, I was appointed as a Ministerial Servant. How? One Thursday evening, during the Service Meeting, and without ever having told me, the Presiding Overseer announced, "Alan has been appointed ..." I was quite angry but held my peace, and began duties as the Accounts Servant. I swallowed my resentment.
But I was painfully aware that, contrary to Watchtower teaching, I had NOT been appointed by holy spirit. In fact, it was that breach of my free will that helped me understand the Society's deception on "appointment by holy spirit". I saw plenty of exceptions to that rule.
So as usual, TTH/Vic, you don't know what you're talking about. You're much like what God did in the Bible story of "Balaam's Ass".

Recently, @JW Insider drew my attention to different meaning about wording: Jehovah's Witnesses and Jehovah's  witnesses.  First one is using only for religious movement, religion, specific group of people or legal entity (started in 1931). The second description is about every individual who accept JHVH, worship and obey him or have some role in JHVH plan, purpose.
In that way, i would say how some person, member of JW organization, can be dfd from Organization and as such is not considered anymore as one of Jehovah's Witnesses (the legal entity under WT Society supervision). BUT that not automatically disqualified him as individual who can continue to be Jehovah's witness according to Isaiah or any other Bible verses where is described how acting person who living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings. (specifically here is about doctrinal differences)
To living according to JHVH will and Jesus' teachings, NOT NECESSARY  mean how person HAVE to be inside particular Legal Entity, in this case, WT Society, CCJW or any other of Watchtower sister' companies !! 

TTH continues the Dunning-Kruger routine.

Arauna said:
Still clueless. Do you even know the distinction between "Jehovah's witnesses" and "Jehovah's Witnesses"?
Arauna said:
First you answer all my questions you ignored.
Do you know the word for what you're doing? Demanding answers from me when you continue ignoring my rejoinders to you? Hint: it begins with "h".
 

It's pretty clear that no one on this forum is willing or able to defend their belief in the God of the Bible against my argument that logically, he cannot exist.
Without a solid foundation, belief in everything else in the Bible is valueless.
Here's a humorous video that further illustrates what I'm talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAQ1GJeYK0A

JW Insider said:
Decades of WTS writers hammering on a theme is plenty of proof.
Can you really imagine that decades of hammering is "inadvertant"?
This article, written a quarter century ago, shows how JW leaders have consistently declared them themselves prophets appointed by Jehovah:
https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-4-wts-says-it-is-prophet-and.html
Here are some quotes from jwfacts.com ( https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/directed-by-holy-spirit.php 😞
<<
    “Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed so that all of God's people may be "fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" and remain "stabilized in the faith." (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are grateful for Jehovah's spiritual provisions in these last days.” Kingdom Ministry Sep 2007 p.3 US Edition
    "They do not claim that this slave class is infallible, but they do view it as the one channel that the Lord is using during the last days of this system of things." Proclaimers p.626
>>
The latter is deliberate doublespeak. How can the Lord be using (guiding and directing) a "slave class" that might or might not be following direction? How can followers know? Why do admittedly fallible men declare that any who disagree are wicked apostates unless they really believed that they're speaking in God's name?
<<
    "When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of the faithful and discreet slave at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood." Watchtower 2010 Jul 15 pp.22-23
>>
That is a direct claim of inspiration.
<<
    "Third, holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light." Watchtower 2010 Apr 15 p.10 Holy Spirits Role in the Outworking of Jehovahs Purpose
    "Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." Watchtower 1973 Jul 1 p.402
    "In 1942 the "faithful and discreet slave" guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up." Watchtower 1960 Jul 15 p.444
    "The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327
    "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370
>>
For a lot more, read the above links.
True, but what actual evidence -- written or oral teaching -- can you or Anna come up with to justify her claim that "GB fallibility" is current teaching and that decades of "GB is guided and directed by holy spirit", as in the above quotes, has been jettisoned?
And have you any evidence that disfellowshipping for apostasy, as detailed in my above post, has been jettisoned or even toned down?
True, but the fact that WTS writers invariably downplay the fact that these changes prove that their overall claim of "spirit-direction" is false proves that they have always deceived the JW community about the source of these false teachings -- their own "dreams and guesses".
Not really. Perhaps they don't talk about it as much as 25 years ago, but it still forms the basis for the 1914 teaching, and hence, the GB's claim of spiritual authority.
Yes, that was a stupid attitude originated by Rutherford and continued by old Freddie.
Which belief is nonsensical, in view of the facts of history. Such as the fact that our population explosion disproves the entire 1914 "end times" scenario. Which facts the GB and its minions refuse even to think about.
Sure it is. Their motives obviously have a large component of self interest. Such self interest, such as maintaining a retirement home in Warwick and their place at the top of the JW cult, can hardly be discounted. The way Jeffrey Jackson, before the ARC commission, lied about the GB's position in Watchtower doctrine, is positive proof of their bad motives, because it takes careful thought to formulate a lie like that -- a lie that is subtle enough to fool some rank and file JWs and the ARC, but not anyone who actually knows JW doctrine.

Anna said:
Satan created nothing. Where do you get that from?
The Bible indicates that Satan became Satan only 6,000 years ago according to Watchtower chronology. How could he, as Satan, affect what God created half a billion years ago?
When? You're forgetting that the predator/prey problem is at least half a billion years old.
Are you proposing that the God/Satan controversy is not 6,000 years old, as the Watchtower Society claims, but half a billion?
But various biblical statements are pretty clear that God considered eating meat, by humans or animals, bad from the beginning. This has long been Watchtower teaching. The Bible indicates this, as the Society argues, by God's giving vegetation but no meat to Adam and Eve. And after the Flood God explicitly allowed meat eating. And several scriptures indicate that at some future time the animals will all be at peace (cf. Isaiah 11:6).
Most people today have a strong feeling of aversion when they see a leopard devouring an animal alive. Right? I call this the Eeeww! factor. Take a look at the videos below of leopards eating live warthogs and tell me you don't react with Eeeww!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXUrFdWeoU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4Id4OSe2to
If a man had two sons and set them in a life and death contest, with one guaranteed to die, would you consider that loving? Especially if the dead son had no chance of a resurrection? Of course not.
How is that different from God's setting predators against prey? Will all those dead animals be resurrected? What about all the pain and suffering? If your mother bit into a rabbit and ate it piece by bloody piece, would that have been loving? The Bible says that God gave the Israelites laws to protect animals from excessive cruelty. Isn't God's creating leopards to eat warthogs alive excessive cruelty?
You're not thinking this through.

JW Insider said:
Decades of WTS writers hammering on a theme is plenty of proof.
Can you really imagine that decades of hammering is "inadvertant"?
This article, written a quarter century ago, shows how JW leaders have consistently declared them themselves prophets appointed by Jehovah:
https://critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-4-wts-says-it-is-prophet-and.html
Here are some quotes from jwfacts.com ( https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/directed-by-holy-spirit.php 😞
<<
    “Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed so that all of God's people may be "fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" and remain "stabilized in the faith." (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are grateful for Jehovah's spiritual provisions in these last days.” Kingdom Ministry Sep 2007 p.3 US Edition
    "They do not claim that this slave class is infallible, but they do view it as the one channel that the Lord is using during the last days of this system of things." Proclaimers p.626
>>
The latter is deliberate doublespeak. How can the Lord be using (guiding and directing) a "slave class" that might or might not be following direction? How can followers know? Why do admittedly fallible men declare that any who disagree are wicked apostates unless they really believed that they're speaking in God's name?
<<
    "When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of the faithful and discreet slave at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood." Watchtower 2010 Jul 15 pp.22-23
>>
That is a direct claim of inspiration.
<<
    "Third, holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light." Watchtower 2010 Apr 15 p.10 Holy Spirits Role in the Outworking of Jehovahs Purpose
    "Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah's organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God's holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." Watchtower 1973 Jul 1 p.402
    "In 1942 the "faithful and discreet slave" guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up." Watchtower 1960 Jul 15 p.444
    "The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327
    "It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the "slave" as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Watchtower 1957 Jun 15 p.370
>>
For a lot more, read the above links.
True, but what actual evidence -- written or oral teaching -- can you or Anna come up with to justify her claim that "GB fallibility" is current teaching and that decades of "GB is guided and directed by holy spirit", as in the above quotes, has been jettisoned?
And have you any evidence that disfellowshipping for apostasy, as detailed in my above post, has been jettisoned or even toned down?
True, but the fact that WTS writers invariably downplay the fact that these changes prove that their overall claim of "spirit-direction" is false proves that they have always deceived the JW community about the source of these false teachings -- their own "dreams and guesses".
Not really. Perhaps they don't talk about it as much as 25 years ago, but it still forms the basis for the 1914 teaching, and hence, the GB's claim of spiritual authority.
Yes, that was a stupid attitude originated by Rutherford and continued by old Freddie.
Which belief is nonsensical, in view of the facts of history. Such as the fact that our population explosion disproves the entire 1914 "end times" scenario. Which facts the GB and its minions refuse even to think about.
Sure it is. Their motives obviously have a large component of self interest. Such self interest, such as maintaining a retirement home in Warwick and their place at the top of the JW cult, can hardly be discounted. The way Jeffrey Jackson, before the ARC commission, lied about the GB's position in Watchtower doctrine, is positive proof of their bad motives, because it takes careful thought to formulate a lie like that -- a lie that is subtle enough to fool some rank and file JWs and the ARC, but not anyone who actually knows JW doctrine.

Dunning-Kruger is mighty in this one.
Have you been taking lessons from your idol Donald Trump?

TrueTomHarley said:
Sure, because a hundred years of pointed criticism of its continued failures leaves it no choice.
And of course, "the thing to focus on" is just an excuse not to think about all the failures of these self-appointed "spirit-directed" charlatans.
Isn't that obvious even to you?
Well let's see: Rutherford began all this with a talk in 1917 called "Millions Now Living May Never Die". He soon changed the title to "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". In 1920 he published the infamous booklet with that name. A couple of years later he started the preaching campaign he called by the same name. The basic reason for the claim was that Armageddon was to come in 1925, leaving many people to live forever. Rutherford said essentially that all this nonsense was from God.
So when 1925 came and went, and nothing happened, it was obvious to everyone that Rutherford had made a huge ass of himself. His admission was much like Bill Clinton's forced admission that he had sex with "that woman"--everyone already knew it.
Your opinion is irrelevant.
You apparently don't understand: Karl Klein hated Rutherford for all that humiliation. His story in The Watchtower was not only a whitewash, but the statement about Rutherford's making an ass of himself was an obvious swipe at Rutherford, expressed in terms that didn't get him in trouble with the rest of the GB.
LOL! Totally clueless. And as usual, attributing to me attitudes and views that are products of TTH's warped imagination.
It was "Karl", dummy. Try doing a little research.
And of course, none of them know how much Klein hated Rutherford.

Anna said:
No, it's deliberate. Need I quote some Watchtower publications to prove it?
How so? And how do you reconcile that opinion with very recent Watchtower statements that call for blind loyalty to the Governing Body, to view their teachings as directly from God?
Again we see the Society talking out of both sides of its mouth.
I really doubt that they will. That is entirely at odds with decades of Watchtower doctrine.

TrueTomHarley said:
     
Wrong as usual. You didn't see his face as he hung his head for ten seconds.
You're projecting. And rationalizing your own worship of the GB.
That's because you don't think clearly and deeply.
No sense commenting further on junk that Wolfgang Pauli would have said is "not even wrong".

Anna said:
JWs who believe that the holy spirit actively finds mates and appoints elders are not misinterpreting anything. They're thoroughly duped by dishonest statements given in Watchtower publications and in various public talks. I proved that with my audience with Wesley Benner some 42 years ago.

Quote " But we don't IGNORE most forms of bad conduct. The elders are to watch over the flock, and give good counsel when they learn of bad forms of conduct. "
@JW Insider  But WE don't ignore ...   Is JW Insider actually admitting to be an Elder here ? 
And @The Librarian  whom Mr Harley refers to as 'she' and 'the old hen', has actually admitted to being a Man, I believe. So probably another Elder.
One more point though. Some of you guys tell stories of working with members of the GB and in the Writing Dept etc... . So you are not just ordinary 'run of the mill' JW's. A person doesn't go from being a 'member of a congregation' to being assistant to the GB.  And it had me thinking that if you've worked at the HQ in America, then maybe some of you know each other personally way before ever joining this forum.  Some of you, if you are to be believed, have such deep information that could only come from first hand experience at HQ Bethel USA, so I would presume some of you that defend the GB and the Org, know far more than you will ever make known on here. 
 
 

Of course that all people in one group contributing how that environment will look like. Article made point, with given example about individual who are in position of authority, how people with authority are very important in this and how develop of many things is based on platform that people in authority creating (or has been creating). They are some sort of pillars and members will look on them and how they respond on various stimuli inside and from outside congregation.  I think how this is message in article how main responsibility, what sort of environment took place, is on elders. 
Congregation is not understand as private place for games, but serious place for service .... and sometimes for cowboy dancing or musical show too. But that is rare. What is we talking about is, how much you can go with your different idea, view, opinion and when they will and how stop you in your open voice. Your different idea about and rejecting "overlapping generation", even without your active promoting that on others, can be viewed as your weak faith, law spirituality because of "worldly pressure" you going through, negative thoughts, the appearance of doubt ...etc. In their's "arsenal", elders can find reason to put increased attention to you, or even to silently warn others about your weakness. Of course you know your elders better than me, but they are "shepherds" and have to keep you inside "flock". :)) 

The thing to focus on is, not that Rutherford thought it existed, (a “cult” around Russell) but that the FDS freely admits it 50 years (or whatever) later.
It is as when Rutherford says “I made as ass of myself,” and AlanF uses to fact to insist that he could not have been “inspired.” What he should focus on is that he said it in the first place. I mean, not in my wildest ramblings can I envision Alan saying publicly the same. You cannot go wrong when you have persons who, as individuals, do not take themselves too seriously.
This is the same Rutherford who says: “Well, Carl talks a lot and he says things he doesn’t mean.” Can you imagine Alan letting anyone off the hook so easily? He rages on about the technicalities of words and totally ignores the human component that makes them work in actual life.
Of course, the “Carl” whom Rutherford spoke of was Carl Klein, a one-time GB member whose life-experience was published in 1984. (“Jehovah Has Dealt Rewardingly With Me.”) Notable among the lessons he reports as contributing to a happy life is: “Since then, I have observed many similar tests of loyalty. When mistakes are made, those not wholly loyal at heart seem to pounce upon them as an excuse for quitting.”—Compare Psalm 119:165.
This, too, is good to reflect on. Klein’s reminisces are a favorite with the friends—it is not just me. One brother stated just the same when commenting on a WT paragraph about a month ago that referenced him.

JW Insider said:
 
Yes, but until very recently that was not the case. Note:
<< How did this governing body make its appearance in recent times? Evidently under the direction of Jehovah God and his Son Jesus Christ. According to the facts available, the governing body became associated with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. C. T. Russell was patently of that governing body back there in the last quarter of the nineteenth century. >> The Watchtower, Dec. 15, 1971, p. 760, written by Fred Franz, Vice President and chief theologian of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.
It is entirely relevant, since the Society has long claimed continuity of "the faithful slave and its governing body" from apostolic times. That this claim is manifestly false is irrelevant; the claim itself is the important thing. The GB's recent divorcing itself from Russell is a self-serving political move.
Exactly.
Quite so. Just as there is today around the current Governing Body -- all instigated by years of promotion by Watchtower publications.

JW Insider said:
     
True, but many languages don't distinguish capitals from lowercase in proper names. In French, for example, you have "les témoins de jéhovah". This is never capitalized. And you have German, which capitalizes all sorts of words (I don't enough to say more).
The ambiguity was deliberate. It allowed the Society to make false claims about the history of "Jehovah's witnesses" by blurring the distinction between the modern religion and generic past "witnesses". Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose was especially dishonest in doing this.
In many cases the context shows that blurring the distinction between "W" and "w" is deliberate. Old timers certainly know the difference.