Witness,

The beasts in Daniel are explained there to represent great political powers, like Babylon, Medo-persia, Greece. And the last beast there represented the Roman empire. And this beast is still alive through the 10 horns/kingdoms that have their origin in the Roman empire, so also the eleveth horn that speak arrogantly. That is typical of Donald Trump. So he is the eleventh horn. And according to Daniel 7 he will begin to persecute the saints and to conquer them during a 3 and half year period.

That period has neither yet begun. But because President Trump fit so well the prophesy (also Daniel 8:23-25 and the king of the north in Daniel 11:30-45) we can know in advance what he will do.

By erroneously applying these prophecies on Governing Body the true application will be missed out.

Witness,

The Man of Lawlessness can not be a body of elders.

The "man of lawlessness" has not yet shown up. How do we know that? That is simple because the identifying signs mentioned in  2Thessalonians 2 are nowhere to see.

The "man of lawlessness" will perform a lot of visible miracles, and that will convince many that he is God. 

We have still to wait and see a such person to appear.

I am guessing that it will be Donald Trump. But I can not yet say for sure.

2Thess2:

"9.....But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10  and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 

 4  He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.

Witness,

In the first century the temple was a physical place and at the same time there was the spiritual temple, according to the apostles words. So today there exist a physical sanctuary and the fortress. (Daniel 11:30,31) JW broadcast-studio fits well to what is said to be the sanctuary and the fortress is the WT complex in Warwick. And in the same time every anointed is a temple of God, where God's spirit may dwell.

Witness, the beast in Revelation 17 is UN and the Harlot, the woman is New York. It is not right to obscure the true meaning of this prophecy. 

Baruq, that is the modern day holy place.

Daniel11:31  And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.

Matthew24:15  “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place+(let the reader use discernment), 16  then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains.

Witness, 

I am a former Jehovah's witness and anointed. And I understand the prophecies not at all as Pearl Doxey. In my opinion are her explanations even worse than the Watchtower's. 

The Left Is Organizing “Response Events” In 900 U.S. Cities On Thursday To Protest The Firing Of Jeff Sessions

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/the-left-is-organizing-response-events-in-900-u-s-cities-on-thursday-to-protest-the-firing-of-jeff-sessions

Let's see what this will bring.

 The GB are so similar to the religious leaders in Jesus' time. And they were responsible for the spiritual feeding in the Synagogues and at the Temple. But John the Baptist and Jesus told the people what was wrong in their teaching and behavior. But the religious leaders, the High Priest, the Pharisees, the Saddusees, the scribes etc. refused to repent and correct their ways. And became seriously guilty.

Many anointed brothers and sisters have written letters to the GB and tried to correct them, but until now they do not listen. Will they ever listen and repent? Or will they follow the course of the religious leaders of Jesus' time? We will see.

The Bible advices to have children and to marry in fact.

1Cor. 7:2  but because of the prevalence of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife+ and each woman have her own husband.  Let the husband give to his wife her due, and let the wife also do likewise to her husband.

 1Tim 2:15  However, she will be kept safe through childbearing,+ provided she continues in faith and love and holiness along with soundness of mind.

1Tim 5:14  Therefore, I desire the younger widows to marry, to bear children, to manage a household, to give no opportunity to the opposer to criticize. 

Matt 19:10  The disciples said to him: “If that is the situation of a man with his wife, it is not advisable to marry.”11  He said to them: “Not all men make room for the saying, but only those who have the gift.+ 12  For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs on account of the Kingdom of the heavens. Let the one who can make room for it make room for it.”+

3 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

^{@Space Merchant}

 

²³  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people. "    Zechariah 8 v23. 

 

 

Note he does not say the Jewish man symbolizes the Governing Body. He says the Jewish man symbolizes the Anointed Christians.  A big difference. 

 

 

Matthew 24:40  In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

Now the GB has blatantly distorted Jesus' words about what it means to help Jesus' brothers, the anointed. GB outright discourages brothers and sisters to give special attention to the anointed, except for themselves. That can not be right. 

Revelation13:3  I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed,+ and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 

According to my current understanding of the exact time we are in relative to the prophecies in the Bible, the above mentioned scripture is going to get its fulfillment. 

One of the seven headed beast's heads is going to experience a fatal wound. The seven headed beast seems to represent the G7 coalition. So one of them is going to be paralized as if struck with a sword.

Revelation 13:14 "while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image+ to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived."

There are a lot of people on internet predicting that a such event will happen in USA. 

The latest article about that and how to survive in a such event was at Zerohedge today.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-05/are-you-prepared-lockdown-how-stay-safe-when-all-hell-breaks-loose-america

Are You Prepared For Lockdown? How To Stay Safe When All Hell Breaks Loose In America

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Thank you, Jan.  But, you see the transgression against the Temple/anointed ones, but are dismissing it at the same time?  

 

  I hope you will read my comments on this topic.   

 

Yes I checked it out.

It is true that the anointed should not be silenced and pushed aside in the congregations by the elders and the GB.

But I am just pointing at the wrong application of the scriptures speaking about the 'abomination that causes desolation'.

It is vital to apply those prophecies correctly, otherwise the true application will be lost.

In the first centry the abomination that causes desolation were the Roman armies with their idols they brought with themselves to the battlefield. In this case they had brought that into the Holy city, Jerusalem. And they were near the Holy Temple. That was the sign to flee from the holy city Jerusalem.

Similarly when today's holy place, the JW complex at Warwick, will be desacrated by political simbols by the authorities, that will be the sign to start fleeing literaly as did the jewish christians to safety. Because that will be the begining of the persecution that will last till the end. 

The "woman's" flight in Revelation 12 is just about that. 

If you want to know more, I will be happy to explain.

Regards Jan

 

Yes of course Joseph was an excellent example of a whole spectrum of godly qualities. It is always very touching to read the whole story about Joseph. And it is worthwhile to have Joseph as an example to follow, to be that kind and forgiving. It is that kind of persons God want to appoint as kings in his kingdom. 

On 11/1/2018 at 5:10 AM, Witness said:

 

2 Thess 2:4 - He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

Dan 11: 31,32 - “His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.  With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him."

Dan 11:36 - “The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place."

 

Hey come on, those scriptures are about the king of the North, the Antichrist. Those have nothing to do with the GB.

Hi Baruq, your writing performance was at least as good as the WT-writers'. 

I have anyhow mixed feelings about comparing Bible characters. I have also thought about Abraham, could he not said something else about his wife instead of lying about their relationship. 

But then Jesus himself fooled his brothers once they asked him if he was going to go to Jerusalem, and he fooled them that he was not going, but went anyway.

So, where do you draw the line? And Job was a blameless man, but he could not understand how God could let all the atrocities happen to him if God was good and righteous?

Maybe the answer lies in Ecclesiastes 7:16  Do not be overly righteous, nor show yourself excessively wise. Why should you bring ruin to yourself?

That being said, maybe God himself lives by this principle?

Now it got one step more complicated, did it not?

Best regards Jan

37 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Yes I know what you are saying....but the thing is..Jehovah is using them to get the job done (preaching work)...he is backing that work....and he will use whatever he has at his disposal  to achieve that...for as you know he cannot bring the end until the preaching work is accomplished...

 

 

May be not only Jehovah's witnesses are doing the preaching work? Even the Islam religion preach about Jesus' return. But instead of a 1000 year reign, they say he will reign 40 years. And that will be a very good and blessed time. 

In reality Jehovah's witnesses have not touched half the humanity yet. The moslim world, most part of India and most part of China. And hardly all those people have checked jw.org.

But basic knowledge of Jesus' return is spread by different religions. But Revelation speaks about two very special witnesses that will witness during a last 42 month period. And they will do it accompanied with miracles and powerful works according to Revelation 11.

And that will not go unnoticed to the world. And those two witnesses are not the GB. But they could be two anointed brothers with Jehovah's witness' back ground.  

Hi Witness,

The problem you mention in your post is real. And there will come a solution as testified in Daniel 11:33  And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days. 34  But when they are made to stumble, they will be given a little help; and many will join with them by means of smooth speech.* 35  And some of those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and a whitening+ until the time of the end; because it is yet for the time appointed.

 But the application of Daniel's words about stopping the daily sacrifice is not applicable in that way as described in your post. That profaning of the sanctuary, fortress and stopping the daily sacrifice happens during the last 1260 days. And this has not yet started. And this is done according to the prophecy by a worldleader, a political leader. Even many evangelical preachers teach that this will be done by the Antichrist. And this has nothing to do with the Governing Body. 

But if we are to find scriptures that fit the current situation among Jehovah's witnesses, we have to look at other places in the Bible. And the following place is one of them:

In Ezekiels 44: 6  You must say to the rebellious house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “That is enough of your detestable practices, O house of Israel. 7  When you bring foreigners(non-anointed elders) who are uncircumcised in heart and flesh into my sanctuary, they profane my temple. You present my bread, fat and blood, while my covenant is being broken because of all your detestable practices. 8  You have not taken care of my holy things.+ Instead, you assign others(nonanointed elders) to take care of the duties in my sanctuary.”’9  “‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “No foreigner(non-anointed elder) living in Israel who is uncircumcised in heart and in flesh may enter my sanctuary.”’10  “‘But the Levites(strayed-away anointed) who strayed far from me when Israel strayed from me to follow their disgusting idols will bear the consequences of their error.

But I am glad you brought this up, so I had something to comment on.

Regards Jan

 During the 1260 days/42months our faith and obedience to God will be tested by the beast of Revelation 13. 

Government will try to get everyone worship the beast and its image and to take the mark of the beast. Unlike the Christian peaker in the video below who believes Christians will be raptured before it happens, I believe we will have to cope with the persecution. And if possible flee to a rural area and manage to survive off grid. 

But otherwise he did a good job presenting the technology that already exist to fulfill the prophecies in Revelation 13.

From 18:00 he starts to speak specificaly about the Mark of the Beast.

 

What event will mark the begining of the 3 1/2 times/years?

By connecting Daniel 7:25 with Daniel 11: 30 and Daniel 12:7 we can see what it is:

Daniek11:31 And arms* will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary,+ the fortress, and remove the constant feature.*+
“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.+

Daniel 12:7 “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.[1260 days] As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end,+ all these things will come to their finish.”

We see that the persecution of the holy people mark the begining of the 3 1/2 times/1260 days. But what happens 30 days later at day 1290 is not clear. 

Daniel 12:11 “And from the time that the constant feature*+ has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place,+ there will be 1,290 days.

And how fast will all the aspects of Daniel 11:31 take place? The profanation of the sanctuary and the fortress, and the removal of the constant feature and the putting in place the disgusting thing?
Will it be done all in one day suddenly? Or will it be done through courts like in Russia when the WT organization was liquidated and it took some time? May be that make the 30 day difference? 

What is represented by the sanctuary, the fortress and the constant feature? And what is the disgusting thing causing desolation?

WT online library defines how sanctuary is used in the Bible and that gives us some guidelines:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003828
A place set apart for the worship of God or of gods, a holy place; a divine habitation. (1Ch 22:19; Isa 16:12; Eze 28:18; Am 7:9, 13) .....
However, frequently the expression “sanctuary” designates either the tabernacle (Ex 25:8, 9) or the temple at Jerusalem. (1Ch 28:10; 2Ch 36:17; Eze 24:21) As applied to the tabernacle, “sanctuary” could mean the entire tent and its courtyard (Ex 25:8, 9; Le 21:12, 23), the furniture and utensils of the sanctuary (Nu 10:21; compare Nu 3:30, 31), or it could refer to the Most Holy (Le 16:16, 17, 20, 33).

So a modern day equivanent of the fortress for Jehovah's witnesses should be the Warwick complex and the sanctuary the actual place of worship inside this complex.
And the constant feature could well symbolize the constant spiritual food that is coming from Warwick. 

And the disgusting thing should be closely connected to the blasphemous beast of Revelation 13. And the reason why this beast must be connected to this event is that this beast is said to persecute those who will not worship it and that it will persecute during 42 months. That again equals to time, times and half a time or 1260 days.

The begining of the 1260 days should be now very close. It will halt the WT organization. The constant feature, the spiritual food will not come anymore from there. 

And according to Revelation 13 there must just prior to that happen a fatal sword-stroke to one of the heads of the wild beast. And the healing of that head.

When is the prophecy about time, times and half a time really taking place? The WT organization has taught it happened 1914-1918. But many non-jw christian groups put that time into the final tribulation period right before Jesus' return. 

What is your opinion?

When I read carefully Daniel 7 I saw where that 3 and half year should be placed. Look here and judge for yourselves:

 “This is what he said: ‘As for the fourth beast, there is a fourth kingdom that will come to be on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour all the earth and will trample it down and crush it.+ 24  As for the ten horns, ten kings will rise up out of that kingdom; and still another one will rise up after them, and he will be different from the first ones, and he will humiliate three kings.+ 25  He will speak words against the Most High,+ and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.*+26  But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely.+27  “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One.+ Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,+and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’28  “This is the end of the matter.

The fourth beast represented in the begining the Roman empire. Then that beast continued its existence through kindoms that emerged within the Roman empire. That is what the 10 horns represent. Those kingdoms are for example Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, UK. And the prophecy tells that after the 10 horns emerges an eleventh horn, a final horn. And that should be about USA. And because the prophecy specificaly speaks about the eleventh horn as "He" it shoud be about a specific king/president of that beast. And the prophecy says that just before the complete destruction of this beast, the final horn will for time, times and half a time, that is 3 1/2 years continually harass the holy ones.

Is it not clear that WT is totally wrong when they put this time to 1914-1918?

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1994567#h=1:0-15:69

The true time for the 3 1/2 years must then be a head of us and could begin very soon. This time period can not be in the past, because right after the 3 1/2 years that beast is completely destroyed. 

But the last 3 1/2 years will be tough.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

 @JW Insider

In one of my comments I said the GB should be removed and replaced. Then someone here said that no one was in a position to remove th GB. Now, perhaps the GB demoted the rest of the Anointed because the rest of the Anointed do have the right to remove the GB and replace them. After all, who can say that those 8 men are more important and should have more power than the rest of them. It may be God's plan in the near future to use the rest of the Anointed to remove the GB and to clean up the JW org. 

It's just a thought. 

I think the GB and all the elders that support them will be removed according to how I understand Ezekiel 34.