Kosonen

4 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

How many people have passports and appropriate visas? ... or the money to fly?

I would seek for special permit from the Australian government to gather in the wilderness without passports or papers. Nobody would be disturbed by us in the wilderness anyway. 

I just calculated if 16000 planes took 200 Jws each, it would be 3 200 000 of us.

And if one plane landed every 30 minutes it would take 333 days. We would need 10 runway to do that in a month.

Just now, Srecko Sostar said:

How many JW's members are aviators for such airplanes? 

No, but worldly pilots can fly us there. We are so many that they will probably have go fly there and return and bring in more Jehovah's witnesses. And the aviation companies want surely keep the plans after they have transported us there.

16 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Oh dear, I do hope this whole topic is supposed to be a joke. 

No, I am serious. We have to get out from this system before it gets worse.

Have you heard that there are thousands of aircrafts parked and idle worldwide? I believe this is from Jehovah God. He has steared the situation so that we soon can all together fly to a wilderness. The aircrafts are just waiting for us. In addition the fuel has gone insanely cheep. So it should not be expensive to fly there. 

Have you noticed that Revelation 12 says that the woman gets two great wings of an eagle to fly to her place in the wilderness? That must refer to aircrafts.

Revelation 12:6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days.

13  Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. 14  But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.

https://time.com/5823395/grounded-planes-coronavirus-storage/

In the link above they say that 16000 passenger planes are grounded now because of the Corona virus.

I believe that soon the figurative "woman" of Revelation 12 will have to flee persecution to a litteral wilderness. The 'woman' represent Jehovah's witnesses. So soon the Jehovah's witnesses will fly to a suitable wilderness. There has never been a such good situation when empty planes are just idle. If there is a time when Jehovah's witnesses could all fly to one place, it is now. It must be arranged by Jehovah God. 

I am just waiting that USA leaves Syria because after that the persecution begins and then it is best to flee. That is according to Daniel 11:29,30.

29  “At the time appointed he will return and come against the south. But this time will not be as it was before, 30  for the ships of Kitʹtim will come against him, and he will be humbled. “He will go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will go back and will give attention to those leaving the holy covenant. 31  And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.

And I have prayed to Jehovah God to understand where to fly? And I believe Abingdon Downs airport is the place. I think the runway could easily be extended to receive all sizes of aircrafts. The runway is now 1300 meters or 4265 feet.

Gordon Brown and Henry Kissinger and Tony Blair know apparently what is comming. Not only that but they are working for that to happen.

I just recently found out that there is a concentrated effort since 2017 to empower the G20 for a time in order to set up a new financial system. And they say they need the power for 3 years to set up the new financial world wide system. They say that after that they can dismantle them selves as excecutive power after mission accomplished. Because the system will be set up and will continue to work without them.

Here is their website:

https://www.globalfinancialgovernance.org/report-of-the-g20-epg-on-gfg/overview/

Clicking the box with the headertext: D. The G20 and the IFIs: Making the System Work as a System 

You will find for example the following information, highlights with bold text are mine:

Quote: "If the G20 needs to constitute a working group to drive major new system-wide initiatives, the group should ideally operate for a period of no more than three years.

An effective forum is required to ensure this major reorientation of the system of development finance. However, there is currently no effective forum with universal membership that has the necessary systemwide remit – to steer the shifts required to ensure coherence and complementarity among the IFIs as well as with other major development partners. It will require dedicated steering over three years to move to this new landscape, building on current initiatives in the IFIs. A clear system of metrics to track impact and value for money should be established, which will also ensure continuity of the reforms beyond that period. A G20-led Group of Deputies, with representation from key non-G20 constituencies and the IFIs, reporting periodically to Ministers, will be the most effective way to fill this gap over the next three years before handing the coordinating role to the heads of the IFIs."

It is remarkable that they talk that they need to get the authority for a period of 3 years. That is quite close to 42 months as the Bible says that the sevenheaded beast will get in Revelation 13.

On 4/14/2020 at 3:10 PM, Arauna said:

This world-wide lockdown reminds me of the 66CE lockdown  in Jerusalem

So sad to hear that you are sick. I hope you will be well. Good that you got the medicine in time.

And your statment above is exactly what I have thought also. 

Thankfully the first wave of Covid is slowing down and reversing in some places.

So soon it should become possible to flee to the wilderness as fortold in Revelation 12. 

I would expect that there will be cheep flights in the beginning.  Because the airtraffic is so reduced. If a group of witnesses book a whole plane we would get it cheep.

I prayed a few years ago and asked Jehovah to let me understand where that wilderness is and He led my thoughts at once to an area in Far North Australia. To be exact, to an area near the towns Croydon and Georgetown.

I found more information about what exactly the former prime minister of UK proposes conserning a new global government. In the magazine Financial Times he straight forward states that he wants the G20 to create that international power.

https://www.voltairenet.org/article206855.html

Jordon Brown writes:

"Lastly, the G20 should tomorrow form a task force to co-ordinate the work of political leaders, medical experts and the heads of international institutions."

That is staight talk. Yes and really, we can expect the seven headed beast of revelation 13 to get authority over the whole earth.

Revelation 13:7 ".....and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.  8 And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. 

Kissinger is also demanding a new international response to the medical and economic crisis caused by the Covid-19 pandemic. 

He surely wants a new undemocratic authority to be installed to govern the health and economic issues of the world.

 https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/kissinger-failure-to-establish-post-covid-new-world-order-could-set-the-world-on-fire

40 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Just as dilemma, from us who have less faith :)))      

I know that problem. I have doubts sometimes. Sometimes things look impossible. But Jesus said if we just have a tiny little bit of faith, it can start to grow. The important thing is to not say 'impossible'. Better say maybe and keep looking for additional reasons to believe. 

But the most important thing to be able to grow in faith is to ask God give more faith and help us stop doubting. That I have started to in clude in my daily prayer.

Luke 17: 5  Now the apostles said to the Lord: “Give us more faith.” 6  Then the Lord said: “If you had faith the size of a mustard grain, you would say to this black mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea!’ and it would obey you.

Just as we can grow in wisdom by often praying about, in the same manner we can grow in faith by praying about it often.

Look here how James says that we need to pray often.

James1:5  So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him. 6  But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all,

Building one's faith or wisdom or whatever godly quality is like building a house of bricks. By prayer we add one brick after another. Like building a brick house, building a complete faith takes years. And it needs to be built with God's help through prayer. 

Please try that, and you will overcome doubts. I can say that from my own experience.

12 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why Jesus didn't spread Revelation through two or three witnesses to be in harmony with own teaching? Just as dilemma, from us who have less faith :)))      

You make a very valid point that there should be two or three witnesses. Because of that if I know only one scripture saying about something I can not be sure if it actually means what it seems to say. In such cases I continue to read the Bible in hope to find a second or third scripture about the same thing for confirmation. 

And in the case of Revelation, we have several verses talking about the same thing. For example the number 144 000 appears not only once. And not only one verse speak about the mark of the beast and so on. 

But as a whole the book of Daniel and Jesus' and apostle Paul's statements and book of Zechariah and Joel and Malachi and Ezekiel talk about subjects conserning the end time and confirm each other.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

There are very few constellations mentioned in the Bible. Kimeh and Kesil are in Amos, repeated along with Ash in Job, but we have no real idea which constellations these were.

I don't think that should bother us. In a similar way we are not bothered to use names of days and months that are commonly used. 

And have you heard about the concept of the Gospel in the stars.

I was amazed when I first saw an explanation to the constellations from a gospel view.  

Here is a video that I really liked in this regard: 

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

On average, it happens about every 240 years.

How do you know? I looked in my Solar System Scope app dates that some on internet claimed that this alignment occured multiple times. But on those other dates something always lacked. They were not identical to September 23, 2017.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

. If it didn't "appear" then it can't fulfill Revelation 12:

"Then a great sign was seen in heaven"

There is generally nothing that simple in the Bible. Many of the prophecies in the Bible did not get their fulfillment exactly as fortold. So the Revelation 12 sign is no exception. 

"Then a great sign was seen in heaven"  does not mean that everyone would see it, but instead it means simply that apostle John saw what he saw and then recorded it.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

. If this was so important, do you really think that Jehovah or the Bible writer could not have picked the actual word for planet? Greek does have such a word: planetes.

I think the case with Venus explains this. In the Bible it is named the Morgning Star. 

Why that? Simply because for the naked eye planets look like stars. A few years back I thought I had never seen planets in the sky and I wondered how the ancient Greeks had been able to see planets in the sky? But then I downloaded an app named Solar System Scope and could then identify several planets which I would have thought were stars. 

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

assume that Queensland in Australia was named after the Queen of England. I don't see much consistency in your interpretations.

Yes, I assume that also. But it does not exclude that God was not directing matters. Because sometimes people say or do something for their own purposes, but what they do serve God's will at the same time. One example of that is the following:

John 11:49 "But one of them, Caʹia·phas,+ who was high priest that year, said to them: “You do not know anything at all,50  and you have not reasoned that it is to your benefit for one man to die in behalf of the people rather than for the whole nation to be destroyed.”51  He did not say this, however, of his own originality, but because he was high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was to die for the nation, 52  and not only for the nation but also to gather together into one the children of God who were scattered about. 53  So from that day on they conspired to kill him."

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

You used astrology to identify the time period for the prophecy of the woman in Revelation 12

No, that is not astrology. It is astronomy.

Genesis1:14  Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years.

16  And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars.

Job 9:9 He made the Ash, the Keʹsil, and the Kiʹmah constellations, And the constellations of the southern sky; 10  He does great and unsearchable things, Wonderful things that cannot be counted.

Job 38:31  Can you tie the ropes of the Kiʹmah constellation Or untie the cords of the Keʹsil constellation? 32  Can you lead out a constellation in its season Or guide the Ash constellation along with its sons?33  Do you know the laws governing the heavens, Or can you impose their authority on the earth?

So there is no harm in knowing astronomy. And on 23rd of September 2017, the heavenly bodies aligned just as describes in Revelation 12:1,2. I regard that a such coincidence  could not just happen randomly. So I believe it is a sign from Jehovah God to give us the time when the war in heaven started according to Revelation 12.

8 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Kosonen on another forum, like you, moves very easily from saying that something MIGHT be the interpretation and then it changes to something more like: "This IS the interpretation

You see, my faith had got stronger. It is like that. I am first surprised by happenings that seem to fulfill prophecies. And as I get more information I become more convinced, until I am fully convinced. That is a normal process I think.

And I am really happy that I have understood most of the meaning of Revelation 8. The WT's explanations never stuck to me. They were just too farfetched. 

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

. It's not up to us to second guess God and decide that he is not powerful enough to protect us from what goes on around us.

It is not a question about that. Here is the question to understand correctly Ezekiel 38 and the woman's flight according to Revelation 12. 

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

Please read all these scriptures and you will notice that she is a heavenly woman. 

No, that is not the case in Revelation 12:6 because the woman flees to a wilderness to be fed 1260 days. In heaven, there is no need to feed any symbolic woman. They are well fed and perfect there. Instead the domestics here on earth need correct and timely food. So the woman most likely represents the great crowd that will survive the great tribulation. 

And Revelation 12:13 again confirms that the woman in this instance represent God's earthly congregation of believers, because after Satan is hurled down to earth, he persecutes the woman here on earth. Satan can not after he is hurled down persecute any abstract woman or heavenly woman. So it must be about the persecution that will occur here on earth against Jehovah's witnesses and the WT organization. This has not happened yet. But it will happen soon. But I believe the restrictions on the activity of Jehovah's witnesses just now because of the Civid-19 pandemic is a indirect attack on the WT organization master-minded by Satan. 

Revelation 12:13  Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.14  But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.15  And the serpent spewed out water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. 16  But the earth came to the woman’s help.

Wilderness, be drowned, the earth came to the woman’s help, all these words point to the evident that the woman represents Jehovah's earthly servants and earthly organization.

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

In one breath you acknowledge that Australia is in fear of China and in the next breath you say it will be safe enough for all Jehovahs people to flee to?  Is there logic in this conclusion? 

That is because I believe Ezekiel 38 will play out there. The situation only confirms that Australia is the right place.  Gog will together with probably China invade first Australia and then they will come to plunder Jehovah's peoples material wealth, in for of gold, silver, cattle and goods according to Ezekiel 38. But as Ezekiel for tells Gog will not succeed. Instead he and his armies will be wiped out by Jehovah God.

15 hours ago, Arauna said:

I think you did not read (or think about)  the portion I wrote you on Ezekiel 38. ..Somewhere above

I have meditated much over Ezekiel 38. The difference with you and me is that I take that chapter more literally than you do. But I admit that one thing there can not be taken literally. That is when it says that believers in Jehovah are "collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel,". -Verse 8

I don't belive the "mountains of Israel" really means the mountains of today's modern day Israel in the Middle East.

2 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

do the math.

I've done. Every Jehovah's witness sell their kingdom hall, house or apartment if owned and car. That would be more than enough money to fly to Australia. 

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

There is a much more sensible way of looking at all these scriptures,

I am just believing in those scriptures without, explaining away what they say for example about gold, silver, cattle and goods. It sounds very strange to give a simbolic interpretation to gold, silver, cattle and goods. 

16 hours ago, Witness said:

And I suppose they would pay for the 8 million plus flight tickets

The WT organization I believe has so much money and assets so that everyone could get a ticket to Australia. And all who would go could sell everything before going there.

16 hours ago, Anna said:

don't know if you have thought about it from a practical point of view, but to water and feed over 8 million people for even a short period of time in some remote place would be impossible in my opinion. Also, where would they all sleep, and clean themselves and use the toilet? ....?

Yes I have thought about that. Revelation 12:6 said:   And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days.

So the water supply would be already in place. As I mentioned earlier, the water supply is already in place there. There are waterpoints for the cattle spread through out the country. We can drink the same water. I don't think the toilet thing will be a problem. The israelites who left Egypt with Moses had no problem with that. If they could live and survive in the wilderness, so should we be able. I believe the exodus from Egypt and their dwelling in the desert is a prophetic pattern for us.

And Jehovah's witnesses are used to organize conventions, so this should not be a problem. We could organize it just in a bigger scale. Food would not be a problem. Just buy container loads of essential food, such as wheat, rise and legumes and vegetable oil. I would buy a large stockpile, maybe for 5 years. During that time we could already manage to begin to grow our own food. 

On 4/6/2020 at 7:55 AM, Arauna said:

Bottom line:  In previous historical times there were places to flee to but everyone has now run out of places.... and you will not qualify as a "migrant"  if you come from a first world country.

But it would not be a problem if we went to a international convention in Australia and then the second wave of Covid-19 strikes and all travel is again forbidden. Then we would just be stuck in Australia. That would be brilliant timing!

On 4/6/2020 at 7:55 AM, Arauna said:

No place to hide...... only in your room on your knees where Jehovah says you can wait on him  OR with your fellow believers in prison.

Only no place to hide if one did not flee to the place that will enjoy peace, prosperity and calm until Gog tries to attack. But he will not be able, because he will be wiped out before he is able to attack.

Ezekiel 38:11 and say, ‘I will go up against the land of unwalled villages; I will fall upon the quiet people who dwell securely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having no bars or gates’; 12 to seize spoil and carry off plunder; to assail the waste places which are now inhabited, and the people who were gathered from the nations, who have gotten cattle and goods, who dwell at the center of the earth. 13 Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish and all its villages will say to you, ‘Have you come to seize spoil? Have you assembled your hosts to carry off plunder, to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to seize great spoil?’

14 “Therefore, son of man, prophesy, and say to Gog, Thus says the Lord God: On that day when my people Israel are dwelling securely, you will bestir yourself

So, according to the Bible those who have come to this place of refuge will dwell in security. That excludes any form of persecution. 

On 4/6/2020 at 10:11 PM, Arauna said:

It is not called a 'quiet' place but a 'secure' place.  Look at the scripture again...It speaks of a land.... . Remember, JWs are a nation who live all over the earth. (The chapter indicates this nation has been restored from all the nations of the earth).  A nation has a country or a.... 'land'.  But we are spread over the earth? 

Yes, we are spread over the earth now, but after we gather together in the wilderness we will be in one area. 

And it will be in a remote area where we can be far away from worldy people. There are cattle stations in Australia that are for example 50 x 100 kilometers big. The only people who live there are the owners of the cattle station and their staff. For a such cattle station there is about 15 staff persons only. So if the WT organization bought a such cattle station or several such ones, then we could live there really peacably without disturbance. It would be very quiet there. Just open rural country with some cows and we ourselves.