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Kosonen

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  1. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    @Arauna  wrore: "If they were truly anointed they would not want to single themselves out and get their own following.  True humility does not mean you create your own club."
    But according to Jesus it should not be a problem for anointed to privately study the bible without WT guidance. Jesus promised that he would be with them.
    Matthew 18:19 Again I tell you truly, if two of you on earth agree concerning anything of importance that they should request, it will take place for them on account of my Father in heaven.+20  For where there are two or three gathered together in my name,+ there I am in their midst.”
  2. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to TrueTomHarley in 1914   
    Maybe we can liken traditional 1914 views to Newton’s physics and newfangled views to Einstein’s.
    Newton‘s laws of physics work perfectly well in the real world. You can land a man on Mars with them no sweat. So also does 1914 work in the real spiritual world—you can come up with the neatest ways to explain events since then—“facts on the ground,” they have been called— not to mention the most clever book interpreting the Book of Revelation, with connections too compelling not to take to heart.
    Contrast that with Revelation as interpreted elsewhere, such as this article with regard to LDS. It is drivel so bland one cannot imagine spending time with it, full of ‘how do you feel about this?’s and ‘what do you think about that?’s. I don’t need the stupid book in that event—I’ll just come here to see what JTR, 4Jah, Srecko, and Witness thinks.
    https://religionnews.com/2019/12/23/what-do-mormons-do-with-the-book-of-revelation/
    But under extreme conditions of Newton physics, some anomalies pop up, prompting Einstein to delve into and rewrite laws. Are there extreme conditions today with regard to 1914? Overlapping generations start to stretch thin—how long until they snap apart? the Einsteins here start to fret—and so they investigate to rewrite basic understandings.
    I know, I know—it doesn’t explain everything. But I kind of like it. If I had more time and interest, “Oscar Einstein” would soon be making his appearance.
     
  3. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    I think it's pretty obvious the world "changed" because of WWI around 1914 to 1918. Many things changed for the better and many things changed for the worse. Historians always look for, and try to explain certain historical turning points to mark off which eras of history their specific chapters will cover, and sometimes the eras that their entire books will cover. A book on US history, for example, will nearly always cover the colonial period up to 1776 (the War), then from that war up to 1861 (the War), then from that war up until 1914-1918 (the War), then from that war up until WWII, then from that war up until the Vietnam War, Iraq, etc.
    Therefore it should not be hard to find as many quotes about 1914 as there are books about historical periods that touch on WWI. And all of them should defend how this era marked a change. When writers talk about the "Civil War" in the US, they often discuss how it was the first war where technology (aircraft/balloons, submarines, iron battleships, Gattling guns) REALLY began to replace hand-to-hand combat (although arrows, canons, firearms and dynamite) had similar effects on war for many years before.
    Still, you can't argue against the fact that these technologies had their first major effects around the world until around WWI, just as historians will argue the first major effects of nuclear technology around WWII.
    It is no surprise then that --when looking for a sign-- that people are going to do exactly what Jesus said they would do. In Matthew 24, Jesus said that people would be looking at war and earthquakes and famines and pestilence and MISTAKING these things for signs. In fact, C.T.Russell appeared to be exactly correct when he indicated that such things would NOT be signs, but would be the kinds of things that people have suffered for these past 18 centuries (now nearly 20 centuries) since Jesus told us not to be FOOLED into thinking such things are signs.
    Jesus' warning about the kinds of things we should not get fooled by, seems ever more apt now that technology has brought war and rumors of war to nearly every continent on earth.
    But we should also note how, in trying to prove 1914, we are so "happy" that there was a great war in that year, that we have been very sloppy about how we read Matthew 24, and we give not a thought to the idea that Russell and many other Bible commentaries indicated. 
    Also, we have to admit, what would be happening right now if the Watchtower had KEPT the dates 1915, 1918, or 1925 as the replacement dates for events once predicted in 1914  that failed to come true. Only after all those other dates also failed for the events expected for 1914, the Watchtower turned back all its emphasis on 1914 again, emphasizing the "war" part of the sign. But if it hadn't gone back to that date for the "sign" it's easy to realize that we would right now be arguing for why things actually changed in the world in 1918, for example, and we (Witnesses) would be arguing against 1914. We might even be talking about how all those secular historians were wrong and blinded by their constant quotes about 1914, when persons with eyes of faith realized that the Bible had pointed to 1918 all along. (We might even make fun of them for how they had truly missed the sign in Matthew that was so obvious when it was 1918 that saw both WAR, and FAMINE, and PESTILENCE (Spanish Influenza) and an 8.3 EARTHQUAKE in the Philippines, just months after an 8.5 in Samoa and just months before an 8.1 in Tonga.)
    And if the false chronology we depended on for 1914 had been seen in advance to give us 1934 or 1944 or 1954, you can be sure that we would be now be arguing for those years instead.
    But of course a focus on 1918 (or 1954) would be just another way to ignore Jesus' warning about being misled. It is because 1914 was a really truly pivotal date in modern history that we have been so easily misled. It's the very reason we have usually ignored Jesus' warning not to be misled when we see wars, earthquakes, pestilence, persecution, etc.
    We forget that Jesus' disciples asked him for a sign so they would know WHEN the impending judgment day on Jerusalem's temple would be ABOUT to occur. (Not as a sign to know when something had invisibly occurred in the past.)
    Jesus' answer indicated that impostors and false prophets would be going around declaring that a sign had already occurred and he indicated that people might mistakenly point to wars, earthquakes, and famines as their evidence. People might say they know it happened even though it was invisible to the people they were trying to convince, claiming Jesus had returned to an inner room somewhere, or it was over here, or over there. But Jesus said that it would be easy to know that these people were wrong because the parousia/synteleia (judgment day) would be as unmistakable as a lightning strike that instantly crosses from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth. There would be no advance warning signs, because it had to come as a thief in the night. Thieves don't give advance warning signs. Only after it was too late to prepare, THEN THE SIGN WOULD APPEAR IN THE HEAVENS. 
  4. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in 1914   
    Your whole idea of another 10 years is irrelevant. Jesus was telling them that in the time period between the question and the fulfillment (turned out to be about 34 to 37 years) that it would be too late to try to prepare based on a sign. They should not start getting all excited about a war here, or a war there, an earthquake here or there, or a famine here or there, and to think that these might be signs of the END. So many of these things, even GREAT earthquakes, for example, might scare them half to death, might even kill some of them. But, stiil, they should not get all excited or alarmed into thinking it's a sign of the END, because there will be no sign of the end. At least not until it's too late to prepare, when the "strikingly visible" sign is already obvious in the skies -- and it's immediately after that point when the end of the age (synteleia of the aion) is upon them. 
    The application for the end of that age was pretty obvious, that it would NOT be heralded by signs. And the application for the end of this age should be just as obvious, that it would NOT be heralded by signs. No one should get excited even by a publication from an apostle or an angel, that the end is near due to some sign someone thinks they are seeing. Because it could come at any time as a surprise. It needs no signs. There are certain things expected to happen that we shouldn't get too excited about, and wars, earthquakes are included. Even a letter from an apostle saying the end is upon us, should not get us too excited or alarmed that the end is upon us.
    There have already been many times in history when Christians were killed by earthquakes, wars, and persecutions, and it was not a time to go off into the mountains to start waiting. Remember what Paul said:
    (1 Thessalonians 5:1, 2) . . .Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know very well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.
    (2 Thessalonians 1:7-2:3)  But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you. 11 To that very end we always pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling and with his power perform completely all the good that he pleases and every work of faith. 12 This is so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you and you in union with him, according to the undeserved kindness of our God and of the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.
    (2 Peter 3:10-12) 10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed. 11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat!
    Translating 2 Peter 3 and 2 Thess 2:2 as "day of Jehovah" instead of "day of the Lord" has resulted in a conflict that produces some confusion to explain away. Note:
    *** w94 2/15 p. 21 par. 24 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
    That day of Jehovah, when he executes vengeance, will come as a grand finale to the conclusion of the system of things that has marked the day of the Lord Jesus from 1914 onward.
    We now have TWO different "days of the Lord." (There was no evidence that the word "Lord" in 2 Peter 3:12 should have been changed to "Jehovah." This is especially true of 2 Thess 2:2 where the context identified that day of the Lord, as the "the revelation of the Lord Jesus." ) Worse than that, it gives us TWO different "parousias." One "parousia" starts in 1914, and the "parousia of the day of Jehovah" in 2 Peter 3:12 hasn't started yet.
    Notice that the day of the Lord, his presence, is the time when the heavens are destroyed and the elements will melt. In other words, it's a time of unmistakable destruction of the age. It's also the time when the living holy ones are taken up and the time when those holy ones who had died are taken up.
    Also, these writings indicate that the apostles took Jesus words to mean that the end of the entire world system (age) would come as a thief just like the end of the Jewish age. But no one should be able to excite us with the idea that the day of the Lord is already here. (Yet, we have claimed that the day of the Lord already started, in 1914.) If it were already here it would be too late to prepare. Thus Christians are always prepared so they are not overtaken. We should never try to prepare based on a sign someone claims is already upon us. Jesus knew that this produces a kind of false Christianity and even the temptation to "lord it over" one another because we can imagine that we live in a time when "the Master is delaying" and we think that we should be something MORE than just a servant who continues to do things the way we did when the Master was here with us.
    This is why the idea of a Governing Body believing they are the embodiment of the Faithful Slave can be so dangerous. It can be the same as falling into the temptation to say "my master is delaying" and try to become a "leader" or "rabbi" who can claim they know things that Jesus never claimed. If it was never OK to try to set oneself up as a leader or rabbi when Jesus was on earth, then why would it be OK to do that when he is "delaying."
     
    Should also note that the Watchtower publications teach us that Kingdom was BORN in 1914, so all these birth pangs should have been in the years leading up to 1914.
    (Revelation 12:1, 2) 12 Then a great sign was seen in heaven: A woman was arrayed with the sun, and the moon was beneath her feet, and on her head was a crown of 12 stars, 2 and she was pregnant. And she was crying out in her pains and in her agony to give birth.
    That's supposed to be 1914. So we have the birth pangs starting after the child is born.
  5. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    @Arauna Please check statistics for population growth and figure out why the world's population did not grow nearly so fast before as the past 100 years.
    And you think people did not die so much before. Please check history. 
    Even in the Bible there are written about battles when in one day hundreds of thousands died in one day.
    I don't believe Satan was cast down around 1914. But imagine how it will be when he really is cast down to earth.
  6. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    Quote @Anna  "Many JW's don't think beyond what is black and white, and need everything not only served up, but already digested." 
    Yes, this is why the GB and Writing Dept' et al are so dangerous. Because JW boots on the ground have stopped thinking and just serve the GB and It's Org. You seem to admit it but when I put it in words you they deny it. You are kinda funny Anna.  
    Quote "This is why many, like you, are under the wrong impression that the GB are supposed to make no mistakes, and cannot be questioned. "
    In my opinion, if God through Christ was guiding the GB then the GB would get things right. Why? Well firstly, it seems that in the  eyes of the GB et al, Armageddon is 'so close'.  So there is no time to loose. The preaching work and the congregation should therefore be spot on / almost perfect, so as not to stumble anyone. Why? Because it is PEOPLE'S LIVES AT RISK. It would seem that JW teaching is that if a person dies at Armageddon they do not get a second chance. Hence if a person is stumbled by GB /JW Org teachings, or by Elders in congregations then Luke 17 v 1 & 2 comes into play.
     Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2  It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.
    Secondly. You know what would happen if a congregant started questioning the GB's 'guidance'. If a congregant started talking to others in their congregation, suggesting that the GB were giving false information. The said person would firstly be warned, secondly be disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'. 
    So how does one 'question the GB' ? Would they give me a personal invitation to visit them to question them ? I think not. (Apart from which i could never afford the air fare anyway).  I am talking about questioning the GB not writing to Bethel, as the later does no good at all. 
    Quote " What do you think the identifying mark of these "real anointed" is? "
    Zechariah 8 v 23
    “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nationsj will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.”
    So how will those 'ten men' know exactly who that 'Jew' is ?  
    Quote "The anointed of those days were baptized with holy spirit, the HS helped them to speak languages they never knew before, it helped them to perform miracles. All that was finished and done when the last of them died, and wasn't going to happen again."
    Are you sure it won't happen again ? Are not the Anointed today 'baptised' with Holy Spirit ? Are they not inspired of God ? How then, in fact, do they know they are the Anointed ?  You of little faith.
    BUT your GB treads them down. Your GB slyly suggests that they might be 'mentally ill' and then to those that are Anointed it tells them they do not need to contact each other or to study God's word together.
    Why would your GB do that ? Why would your GB say that only they, those 8 men, are the F&DS ? 
    Would not truly anointed ones actually want to meet together ? Would not a true F&DS want to gather all the Anointed (via internet / telephone / letter / etc) so as to confer / discuss / build up and share thoughts and blessings from God through Christ ? 
    Quote Anna " b4ucuhear hit the nail on the head when he said regarding those taking the lead: "
    So I'll quote him " Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before.
    You think JESUS gets it wrong ? Seriously ?  So now you are prepared to blame Jesus for the faults of your GB.
    No hope it seems for those that put the GB and JW Org above God and Christ. 
    Have a good day Anna. 
     
     
  7. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    When someone uses a stone instead of their hands, and instead of stone he uses a bronze sword and instead of a bronze sword he uses an iron sword .... this is the advancement of technology and causes wonder in the eyes of the beholder.
    If Bible (and prophecies and events in the past) speaks in this manner, than all in this world are "unusual events" aka miracles from the very beginning and not only after 1914. (especially if individual see something for the first time)
    By the way, first murder, first rape, first slavery ...etc.  were also unusual events when happened for the first time. And now these are everyday events for thousands of years already.
  8. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    @Arauna What you say is not so remarkable because the world's population has been able to grow thanks to better life conditions the past 100 years than before. The centuries before people died prematurely in larger scales from disease, violence, famine and wars.
    Please check the link below. There are numbers of world's population through centuries
     http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/other/worldpop.html
  9. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    For in Him all things were created, thing in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. - Coll 1
     Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah, who is God over all, forever praised![a] Amen. - Romans 9 -
    It seems how this individual here have been always in position to be over, above all thrones and rulers and authorities. According to this he has everything. 
  10. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914   
    @the Sower of Seed The problem with 1914 is that according to Revelation 12 after Satan is thrown down to earth he will be for a short time here raging. 106 years is way long. And longer than any generation. 
    It surely started ill with WW1 and then soon WW2. But why did it calm down seriously after that for more than 70 years? Many people have experienced a much better life since then. And the world's population has been able to grow as never before. In 1914 world's population was about 1,8 billion. Now it is 100 years later 7,7 billions. That is more than 4 times. That is thanks to better living conditions. 
    It does not seem that Satan was permanently thrown down to earth around 1914. Looks like he made an extra effort to disturb life on earth from 1914 to 1945. But then it has been very prosperous times until recently. 
    So instead I believe Satan will be cast down to earth just a few years before the end of this system of things.
    Then it can be said that he will have a short period of time as says Revelation 12.
  11. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Who are now in charge "over all Master's belongings"?   
    Quote @JW Insider
    "You exaggerate a bit, in implying that the rest of the anointed might get nothing. "
    Sorry this may just be my British humour / sarcasm.  But you must admit the true anointed are being kept in the background whilst the GB 'blow their own trumpet' and exalt themselves. 
  12. Downvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Leander H. McNelly in 1914   
    There is no need to believe anything GB or WT says or writes. The Bible is the authority. We should believe in Jesus and what he said. And we should believe the apostles who Jesus had appointed and their writings. And if anyone goes above that, then apostle Paul says:  
    Galatians 1:8 "However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed." 
  13. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    Oh dear Mr Harley the story teller thinks he is so funny.  I see you've found a friend so that you can both pat each others back. 
    @TrueTomHarley One does not need to follow JW Org around, it is Earthwide. And one can use the internet to good use to give warnings, with proof of wickedness inside of JW Org.  
    What the true Anointed will NOT do is to put a date on Judgement day. Unlike the Bible Students and JW Org's use of 1914, 1918, 1975, et al. More proof of false teachings and lies from that Org.
    The true Anointed will surely baptise others in the name of Almighty God and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  Not in the name of, or connected to, an Organisation. 
    NWT. Matthew 28 v 19 
    19  Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,o baptizing themp in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit
    And actually i think the true anointed will be known well within the next ten years, not at the end of it. And they will of course make known the coming Judgement time, but will not emphasise it as most important. The most important being to help make God's name known and to clear God's name of the mess that the JW Org has made of it. Maybe God's name will not even be Jehovah. There are many other forms of God's name known. 
    A lesson here for you Tom. When you say a person must be a JW to be saved. 
    NWT Mark 9 v 38 through 41. 
    38  John said to him: “Teacher, we saw someone expelling demons by using your name, and we tried to prevent him, because he was not following us.”d 39  But Jesus said: “Do not try to prevent him, for there is no one who will do a powerful work on the basis of my name who will quickly be able to say anything bad about me. 40  For whoever is not against us is for us.e 41  And whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ,f I tell you truly, he will by no means lose his reward.
    Those ones that Jesus spoke of were not Christians following Christ in the true sense.. But they were serving God because what they did was obviously righteous in Jesus' eyes. Jesus did not condemn them did he ? Look at verses 40 & 41.  He will by no means lose his reward.
  14. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    Quote  @TrueTomHarley  "Either way you cut it, divorce is a traumatic experience. There is the person who realizes the importance of picking up the pieces and moving on.
    There is also the psycho ex-mate who just cannot let go and who pours all his energy into destroying his former marriage mate. This is never thought healthy and sometimes restraining orders must be issued.
    Which ex-mate do you resemble? "
    Then there is the third kind. The kind that will give his time willingly to gives warning to others to keep away, because the ex in a known danger.  
    Because the JW Org is such a dangerous place to be right now, and it deliberately deceives people with lies and threats. 'Only baptised JWs will be saved'  'Armageddon is so very close, it's just around that very close corner'. ' You must be one of us now to be saved'. Whilst hiding paedophiles in it's midst and shunning anyone that might disagree with the GB / Elders et al. So I give the warning but i do not hate anyone.  I cannot understand how you people cannot understand me. You expect me to hate, you may even want me to hate. But i don't hate. Jesus didn't hate, even when he was dying He didn't hate. 
    By the way, divorce isn't so traumatic, it's just a tad inconvenient. Having gone through two it just wastes money and time. Living far away from both of them I never see them and rarely think of them. I have no bad feelings toward them either. We spent time together, they went off with others, so be it.  I hope they both have happy lives now. But you Tom, seem to need to make me out as the 'bad guy'.  
    MR Harley, who are 'these characters' you talk of. 
  15. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ANOTHER Difficult Doctrine. With a less complex explanation.   
    This is the Dodo calling the world from England  
    @TrueTomHarley Do you ever wonder why people get divorced ? 
    Well one big reason is simply that people change. The person that one marries may be a wonderful, giving, loving, person. But somewhere down the line that person one marries may change. Of course both people will change to some degree. But if the marriage partner turns unpleasant, selfish, dishonest, disloyal, and even cruel, then it is understandable that one may choose to leave and maybe even divorce. 
    So it is with the JW Org. It has changed. Changed so much it is barely recognisable. Changed so many of it's beliefs and doctrines. Changed even those who are supposed to be the F&DS. Changed to become selfish and only concerned about it's own welfare. Suddenly the 'hidden leaders' are paraded in front of the whole world. Those 8 MEN are seen as heroes, those whom call themselves the F&DS. And of course the 'dirty washing' of probably 70 + years, is suddenly revealed, as scripture said it would be. Things done in darkness are brought out into the light... Then of course we have the GB that gives it's blessing to the telling of lies, and they call it 'spiritual warfare'.  So, therefore, anything can be said and done. A scripture, but you know I'm useless at such things,  something about, 'wrong being seen as right, and right being seen as wrong'. So now lies are seen as right before God it seems. Well in the eyes of the GB and Co anyway. 
    So the Jehovah's Witnesses that i joined so long ago was not the JW Org of out present day. Back then it had some element of truth and some meaning and purpose, other than it's own selfishness. But now it is just a shell which has been filled with disgusting things..... Add to this that back then there was NO internet. There was no quick way of researching things. It was not possible to compare information and to decide for one's self what was right or wrong. Only recently has this been possible... So there is your answer Mr Harley. The Org is not what it was, and the information, some of which is freely available on here, was not so available back then. 
     
  16. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    The WT has very few times touched Galatians 1:8 (I suspect the writing commitee understands that this can easily be turned against themselves, because many WT doctrines are not well founded in the Bible)
    But I found a perfect application in JW online library from a WT from 1952
    The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom—1952 9 Who can start a new religion, contrary to God’s written will and Word? “Even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed,” wrote the inspired apostle Paul. (Gal. 1:8, NW) If even a high and mighty angel from heaven cannot start a new gospel without being accursed, then certainly no man on earth can do so with immunity. Any who declare as gospel or good news something that is different from what is recorded in Jehovah’s Word is accursed in God’s sight, whether he is sincere in his declarations or not. Sincerity does not make a wrong thing right.
    SINCERITY NOT ENOUGH
    10. What proves sincerity and zeal alone are insufficient?
    10 Clearly indicating that sincerity or zeal in a religious organization that is not following God’s Word is insufficient, Romans 10:2, 3 (NW) declares: “I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.” These persons had zeal and they must have been sincere, but they did not act in accord with accurate knowledge of God’s Word. They did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own. In their stubbornness and pride in thinking their own religious ideas right and zealously trying to prove them so, they failed to subject themselves to the righteousness of God and his Word.
    11. How does Romans 10:2, 3 fit false religions today, and to what extreme may they even go?
    11 That is the way it is with so many false religions today. They have their creeds and doctrinal beliefs, pluck texts from their setting to support them, and brush aside any scriptures that contradict them. They zealously press on to establish as righteous their own beliefs, not allowing God’s Word to have final say on the matter and not listening to that Word in its entirety, but selecting what suits their purpose and wresting what does not, rather than conforming their belief to the untwisted, unwrested, pure word of truth in the Bible. Such ones lack meekness and teachableness. They are proud, they are stubborn, they refuse to admit wrong. Clinging tenaciously to their self-will in religious belief, they make themselves idolaters according to the divine rule. .........
  17. Thanks
    Kosonen got a reaction from Anna in 1914   
    The WT has very few times touched Galatians 1:8 (I suspect the writing commitee understands that this can easily be turned against themselves, because many WT doctrines are not well founded in the Bible)
    But I found a perfect application in JW online library from a WT from 1952
    The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom—1952 9 Who can start a new religion, contrary to God’s written will and Word? “Even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed,” wrote the inspired apostle Paul. (Gal. 1:8, NW) If even a high and mighty angel from heaven cannot start a new gospel without being accursed, then certainly no man on earth can do so with immunity. Any who declare as gospel or good news something that is different from what is recorded in Jehovah’s Word is accursed in God’s sight, whether he is sincere in his declarations or not. Sincerity does not make a wrong thing right.
    SINCERITY NOT ENOUGH
    10. What proves sincerity and zeal alone are insufficient?
    10 Clearly indicating that sincerity or zeal in a religious organization that is not following God’s Word is insufficient, Romans 10:2, 3 (NW) declares: “I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God; but not according to accurate knowledge; for, because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.” These persons had zeal and they must have been sincere, but they did not act in accord with accurate knowledge of God’s Word. They did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own. In their stubbornness and pride in thinking their own religious ideas right and zealously trying to prove them so, they failed to subject themselves to the righteousness of God and his Word.
    11. How does Romans 10:2, 3 fit false religions today, and to what extreme may they even go?
    11 That is the way it is with so many false religions today. They have their creeds and doctrinal beliefs, pluck texts from their setting to support them, and brush aside any scriptures that contradict them. They zealously press on to establish as righteous their own beliefs, not allowing God’s Word to have final say on the matter and not listening to that Word in its entirety, but selecting what suits their purpose and wresting what does not, rather than conforming their belief to the untwisted, unwrested, pure word of truth in the Bible. Such ones lack meekness and teachableness. They are proud, they are stubborn, they refuse to admit wrong. Clinging tenaciously to their self-will in religious belief, they make themselves idolaters according to the divine rule. .........
  18. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    There is no need to believe anything GB or WT says or writes. The Bible is the authority. We should believe in Jesus and what he said. And we should believe the apostles who Jesus had appointed and their writings. And if anyone goes above that, then apostle Paul says:  
    Galatians 1:8 "However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed." 
  19. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to Anna in 1914   
    Pretty much what Br. Jackson insinuated, but this was to worldly people. It has yet to be put in plain writing for the congregations because it seems that many do not see it. (unlike you).
  20. Thanks
    Kosonen got a reaction from Anna in 1914   
    There is no need to believe anything GB or WT says or writes. The Bible is the authority. We should believe in Jesus and what he said. And we should believe the apostles who Jesus had appointed and their writings. And if anyone goes above that, then apostle Paul says:  
    Galatians 1:8 "However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed." 
  21. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in FAITH. IN WHOM OR WHAT and When ?   
    @Arauna James 5:7 Be patient then, brothers, until the presence of the Lord.
    This statement, "until the presence of the Lord" indicates that Christ's presence will be a short time period. Why else does James tell us to be patient until the presence of the Lord.
    From the Bible it is clear that in fact Christ's presence begins when the sign of the son of man will be seen on the sky. Then we will know he is present in its real sense. 
    Otherwise it could likewise be said that Jesus has always been present because he said in Matthew 28:20 "And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
     
     
     
     
    @4Jah2me 
    Here is a scripture that predict that the WT organization will cease to funtion in the begining of the final years leading up to Armageddon.
    Daniel12:7 “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end,+ all these things will come to their finish.”
    This scripture is tied to Daniel 11:31 "And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. “And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation."
    The true meaning of these scriptures is about a halting of WT organization by the force of authorities. That has never before happened. WT has been printed without disruption since its beginning. 
    The WT organization does not understand Daniel 11 nor 12 and have been unable to give a true explanation to these prophecies. 
     
  22. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 666 - The Mark of the Beast -What Does It Mean? ~ 6️⃣6️⃣6️⃣   
    Under the link WT litterature labels the belief that the 'mark of the beast' could be a implanted microchip as a contrieved fanciful interpretation. 
    Quote: "Others say that it signifies some form of compulsory identification, such as a tattoo or an implanted microchip with a digital code that identifies the person as a servant of the beast. (..........) These fanciful and contrived interpretations, however, are very different from what the Bible itself says about the mark of the beast, as we shall see in the following article. "
    Whose interest does such a statment serve? I am convinced that a compulsory identification with implanted microchips will come and it will track every purchase.
    But the initiators of a such system want to keep that secret until the right time and they do naturally not desire that churches would condemn that.
  23. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in FAITH. IN WHOM OR WHAT and When ?   
    Hi
    @4Jah2me 
    You are really into something. I have seen scriptures that can been undertood in a way that support your conclusions. Especially that the current WT organization will not be in charge the final approximately 3 and half years. Instead it will be other anointed who have now no say that will be the source of spiritual food.
  24. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IDOLATERS?   
    Isaiah 66: 5  Hear the word of Jehovah, you who tremble at his word:“Your brothers who hate you and exclude you because of my name said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ But He will appear and bring you joy, And they are the ones who will be put to shame.”
    The WT organization wrongfully excludes sincere believers in Jehovah God and his word. Looks like this prophecy in Isaiah is just about that.
  25. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Srecko Sostar in Gerrit Lösch   
    Main question, More Important Question is: Do You and Does JW members ACCEPT This Declaration ? 
    :)))
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