bruceq

Sorry   I don't care to argue with apostates who use the same type of questioning that Satan used. The "Ministry of Justice is now being influenced by Dvorkin and other anti-cultist apostates and the trial clearly showed now for the world to see that they, all anti-cultist apostates, are all liars and have baseless claims. 

Sorry   I don't care to argue with apostates who use the same type of questioning that Satan used. The "Ministry of Justice is now being influenced by Dvorkin and other anti-cultist apostates and the trial clearly showed now for the world to see that they, all anti-cultist apostates, are all liars and have baseless claims. 

Human Rights Center: https://memohrc.org/news/memorial-priznal-politzaklyuchennym-veruyushchego-svidetelya-iegovy-iz-danii-dennisa
"Memorial" recognized the political prisoner of the believing Jehovah's Witness from Denmark Dennis Christensen
The case against Christensen is one of the first in the campaign to prosecute Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia.
Denmark's national Dennis Ole Christensen, a believing Jehovah's Witness who lives in Orel, is charged with committing a crime under Part 1 of Art. 282.2 (organization of the activity of a religious organization in respect of which a decision was made to liquidate in connection with the implementation of extremist activities) of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. According to the investigation, Christensen heads the religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses in Orel.
FSB officers detained Christensen on May 25, 2017 during a meeting in a building on Zheleznodorozhnaya Street, where the Oryol Jehovah's Witnesses together read the Bible. On May 26, Svetlana Naumova, a judge of the Sovietsky District Court of Orel, decided to select a preventive measure in respect of him in the form of detention.
The case against Christensen was one of the first in the campaign to prosecute Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, which intensified sharply after the Supreme Court on April 20, 2017 decided to recognize the Jehovah's Witnesses' Center in Russia as an extremist organization. Moreover, Christensen became the first in the modern history of Russia, a Witness of Jehovah, who was deprived of his freedom due to religious affiliation.
The decision to select a preventive measure against Christensen states that he allegedly "committed organizational actions aimed at continuing the illegal activities of the IDPs of Jehovah's Witnesses" Eagle "and expressed in the convocation of meetings of JWO Jehovah's Witnesses" Eagle "..., the organization of preaching activities, the distribution of financial Funds of IDPs of Jehovah's Witnesses "Eagle".
In our view, the charges against Christensen only on the basis that he is a believing Jehovah's Witness are discriminatory and violate international legal acts, in particular the right to freedom of religion. The decision of the Oryol regional court to recognize the extremist local religious organization (LRO) of Jehovah's Witnesses "Eagle" and its liquidation and the decision of the Supreme Council to recognize the Russian "Jehovah's Witnesses" as an extremist organization and ban its activities in the country do not have legal grounds and contradict Art. 28 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guaranteeing the right to freedom of conscience and religion.
We demand an immediate end to the persecution of Dennis Christensen and other Jehovah's Witnesses who are persecuted for their religious affiliation.
Recognizing a person as a political prisoner or being persecuted for political reasons does not mean either the consent of HRC "Memorial" with his views and statements, nor the approval of his statements or actions.
Yandex-purse of the Fund for Assistance to Political Prisoners of the Solidarity Union for Political Prisoners to Assist All Political Prisoners 410011205892134.
More details about the case, see  here .

Danish Jehovah's Witness to stay in Russian jail for 6 months
COURT EXTENDS TERM OF DETENTION FOR DANISH CITIZEN CHRISTENSEN
Website of Soviet district court of Orel, 20 July 2017
 
On 20 July 2017, the Soviet district court of the city of Orel extended the term of detention of a member of the Orel religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and citizen of Denmark, D.O. Christensen, who is accused of committing a serious crime, provided by part 1 of article 282.2 of the Criminal Code of the Russian federation.
 
The term of detention of D.O.Christensen was extended by 4 months, until 23 November 2017.
 
The order has not taken legal effect and may be appealed in the Judicial College for Criminal Affairs of the Orel provincial court. (tr. by PDS, posted 21July 2017)
 
DISTRICT COURT LEAVES MEMBER OF OREL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IN CUSTODY ANOTHER 4 MONTHS
SMNews, 21 July 2017
 
On 20 July 2017, the Soviet district court of the city of Orel extended the term of detention of a member of the Orel religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, until 23 November 2017.
 
The order has not taken legal effect and may be appealed in the Judicial College for Criminal Affairs of the Orel provincial court.
 
Earlier, D.O. Christensen stated that he resides permanently in Orel and he has family and real estate here and therefore he does not intend to flee from the investigation, while complaining about the conditions of detention in the SIZO. The Dane's attorney asked for the selection for him of a measure of prevention that does not entail incarceration. However the prosecutor's office spoke against cancellation of the current measure of prevention, and the court did not find grounds for releasing the preacher from custody.
 
We recall that in late May 2017, the UFSB of Russia for Orel province conducted investigation actions within the framework of opening a criminal case on the basis of part 1 of article 282.2 of the Criminal Code of the RF with respect to the leader of the local Orel religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, a citizen of Denmark, D.O. Christensen. As a result of questioning about 50 members of the local congregation, siloviki received evidence for the criminal case against the person of his participation in illegal activity.
 
On the basis of the decision of the Soviet district court of the city of Orel of 26 May 2017, the person was held in custody in SIZO-1 [pretrial detention cell], which was the first instance in Russia. (tr. by PDS, posted 21 July 2017)
 
COURT IN OREL DECIDES WHETHER DANISH BELIEVER WILL BE RELEASED FROM CUSTODY
Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, 19 July 2017
 
On 20 July 2017 at 10:30 will begin in the city of Orel a hearing on the future measure of prevention for a Jehovah's Witness who is guilty of nothing. He is a citizen of Denmark who has been languishing in an Orel SIZO since 25 May, simply because he read the Bible along with fellow believers. He is charged with violation of article 282.2 (Arranging the activity of an extremist organization).
 
The case of the Dane Dennis Christensen, who has already lived more than 10 years in the city of Orel, will be heard by the same judge, Svetlana Naumova, who earlier concluded that the only possible pretrial measure for the law-abiding Dennis was detention. The F.S.B. investigator who is conducting the case will ask the judge for the same harsh measure of prevention.
 
There is something strange in this case. Special bewilderment is provoked by the circumstances of the appeal hearing on the decision about detention, which was supposed to have occurred on 7 June 2017 in the Orel provincial court with Judge Igor Paukov presiding. The hearing was unexpectedly postponed until 21 June because of the lack of a Danish translator, although an article suddenly appeared in the official newspaper which said that "the Orel provincial court left without change the decision of the district court about detention of the citizen of Denmark." Such a "false start" leads to the suspicion that the decision had already been made and communicated to journalists of the official newspaper back before the court hearing with the participation of a translator, which occurred more than 10 days later, on 21 June 2017.
 
Yet another strange things is that the investigators continue to convince the court that the Danish subject allegedly was the leader of the forbidden local religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses in the city of Orel. Actually not only was he not ever the leader but he was not even a member of that organization, of which one can be persuaded by consulting official information.
 
Attorneys are continuing to work actively to prove the complete innocence of the believer. (tr. by PDS, posted 21 July 2017)
 
"MEMORIAL" RECOGNIZES JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BELIEVER FROM DENMARK, DENNIS CHRISTENSEN, AS POLITICAL PRISONER
The case against Christensen is one of the first in the campaign for persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia.
Website of Memorial, 21 July 2017
 
A citizen of the kingdom of Denmark, Dennis Ole Christensen, a Jehovah's Witness believer living in Orel, is charged with committing the crime provided by part 1 of article 282.2 of the Criminal Code of the RF (arranging the activity of a religious organization with respect to which a decision has been made for liquidation because of conduct of extremist activity). According to the account of the investigation, Christensen was the head of a religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses in Orel.
 
Personnel of the F.S.B. arrested Christensen on 25 May 2017 during a meeting in a building on Zheleznodorozhnaia Street where Orel Jehovah's Witnesses were reading the Bible together. On 26 May Judge Svetlana Naumova of the Soviet district court of Orel ordered to choose for him a pretrial measure in the form of detention in custody.
 
The case against Christensen is one of the first in a campaign for persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia, which sharply intensified after the Supreme Court on 20 April 2017 issued a decision recognizing the Administrative Center of Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia as an extremist organization. Moreover, Christensen was the first Jehovah's Witness in the modern history of Russia to be deprived of liberty because of his religious affiliation.
 
The order for the choice of the measure of prevention with respect to Christensen points out that he allegedly "conducted actions of an organizational nature aimed at continuation of the illegal activity of the Orel local religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and expressed in the calling of meetings of the Orel local religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses . . . , arranging preaching activity, and disbursement of funds of the Orel local religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.
 
From our point of view, the charges presented to Christensen only on the basis of the fact that he is a Jehovah's Witnesses believer are discriminatory and they violate international legal acts, in particular the right to freedom of religious confession. The decision of the Orel provincial court finding the Orel local religious organization of Jehovah's Witnesses to be extremist and the decision of the Supreme Court finding Russian Jehovah's Witnesses to be an extremist organization and banning its activity in the country do not have legal bases and they violate article 28 of the constitution of the Russian federation that guarantees the right to freedom of conscience and religious confession.
 
We demand that the persecution of Dennis Christensen and other Jehovah' Witnesses who are subjected to persecution for religious affiliation be immediately stopped.
 
Recognition of a person as a political prisoner or as persecuted for political reasons does not mean that "Memorial" agrees with his views and statements nor approves of his statements or actions. (tr. by PDS, posted 21 July 2017)
Background articles: Danish citizen arrested in connection with raid on Jehovah's WitnessesMay 26, 2017 Severe treatment of foreign Jehovah's Witness in heart of RussiaMay 27, 2017 
Harsh measure against Jehovah's Witness unjustified
May 31, 2017 Danish Jehovah's Witness remains in Russian jailJune 13, 2017 Imprisoned and not convicted Jehovah's Witness loses appeal for releaseJune 21, 2017 Court refuses to grant habeas corpus to Danish Jehovah's WitnessJune 22, 2017

RUSSIA: DENNIS CHRISTENSEN, A DANISH PRISONER OF CONSCIENCE IN RUSSIA
BY ADMIN_HRWF ON JUNE 22, 2017  
 
Forum for Religious Freedom-Europe and Human Rights Without Frontiers (23.06.2017)
Full name: Dennis Ole Christensen
Birthdate: 1972, December 18
Citizenship: Danish
Residency: He has resided in Russia for about 17 years
Civil state: Married to Irina Christensen (Russian citizen) on August 3, 2002 – no children.
Occupation: Works as a carpenter. His wife has no resource or financial support. Their banks accounts have been frozen and their bank card confiscated.
Circumstances of the arrest: On the evening of May 25, 2017, Dennis Christensen – a baptized Jehovah’s Witnesses since July 25, 1989 – was arrested along with 15 Russian citizens at a peaceful worship service held in a privately owned building in Oryol. The valid rental contract was presented to the investigation leader during the raid. At least 15 masked and armed police together with Federal Security Service (FSB) officers disrupted the religious service. The police collected copies of the identification documents of the 70-80 people in attendance and seized their electronic devices. Mr. Christensen was immediately taken to the detention in Oryol.
Most of the attendees were detained for some hours. Then the older ones and families with children were allowed to leave. The remaining (about 20) persons were detained in the Hall the whole night or were released about 9:00 a.m. the following morning. Several felt ill during the night, had nothing to eat, one even had an epileptic seizure and was taken to the hospital. An ambulance arrived and the paramedics were ordered to stay during the night. None got any sleep or something to eat.
Charges: Mr Christensen has been charged with organizing an illegal religious activity under article 282.2 of the Russian Criminal code and he faces up to 10 years of imprisonment. It is unclear at this stage on which factors the judge relied to consider that Mr Christensen was organizing the meeting.
Current place of detention: His postal address to the detention is Krasnoarmeiskaja 10, SIZO-1, City of Orel, 302040, Russia.
Conditions of detention: According to his lawyer, Mr. Christensen was not given any food during the 36 first hours following his arrest, with the exception of some water. He was kept awake and constantly interrogated during the first night, and appeared at a hearing in the afternoon the following day before the court that decided over his pre-trial detention. Mr. Christensen was exhausted (he had been kept awake for almost 40 hours) when he appeared before judge Svetlana Naumova in Soviet District Court of Oryol. The court ruled to keep Mr. Christensen in detention until July 23 pending the investigation for fear that he being a foreigner would flee the country. He is now kept in detention in a cell he shares with 2 criminals. Only his lawyer and the consul from the Denmark Embassy in Moscow have been able to visit him. Despite repeated requests, the wife of Mr. Christensen could not exercise her right to visit him since his arrest until now. The representatives of the Danish Embassy reported him being in good health.
For more information and/or interviews:
Aaron Rhodes (President, FOREF)Peter Zoehrer (Executive Director, FOREF)Phone: +49-170-323-8314 / +43 664-523-8794Email: foref.office@gmail.comBlog: foref-europe.org
Willy Fautré (Executive Director, HRWF)Phone: +32478202069Email: international.secretariat.brussels@hrwf.netWebsite: www.hrwf.eu
Or contact Dominic Zoehrer, HRWF representative at the OSCE meeting in Vienna

And since Jesus said "I am the way..." then the true faith would be Christian yet not believe in the Trinity. Very good point - we are the one. JW.ORG.

I realize that I am not an elder or former elder such as some of you are but I know what Loyalty to Jehovah is. And since a forum such as this one it is impossible to determine who is or is not an apostate, disfellowshipped or pretending to be a brother while dispensing divisions  and we are obviously associating together here it is my decision to now leave as I wish to cherish true Loyalty to my Creator. 
Loyalty is important to me personally probably because my two previous marriages ended with my wife committing adultery although we were married for 7 and 10 years. So I can see how Jehovah must feel when someone who says they love you are disloyal to your face. I am currently married to my wife of 8 years and I believe we both must continue to develop loyalty to GOD FIRST then to each other. "Do ALL things for God's glory" 1 Cor. 10:31. And I no longer feel it is for me "God's glory" to be here. Goodbye.

I realize that I am not an elder or former elder such as some of you are but I know what Loyalty to Jehovah is. And since a forum such as this one it is impossible to determine who is or is not an apostate, disfellowshipped or pretending to be a brother while dispensing divisions  and we are obviously associating together here it is my decision to now leave as I wish to cherish true Loyalty to my Creator. 
Loyalty is important to me personally probably because my two previous marriages ended with my wife committing adultery although we were married for 7 and 10 years. So I can see how Jehovah must feel when someone who says they love you are disloyal to your face. I am currently married to my wife of 8 years and I believe we both must continue to develop loyalty to GOD FIRST then to each other. "Do ALL things for God's glory" 1 Cor. 10:31. And I no longer feel it is for me "God's glory" to be here. Goodbye.

I realize that I am not an elder or former elder such as some of you are but I know what Loyalty to Jehovah is. And since a forum such as this one it is impossible to determine who is or is not an apostate, disfellowshipped or pretending to be a brother while dispensing divisions  and we are obviously associating together here it is my decision to now leave as I wish to cherish true Loyalty to my Creator. 
Loyalty is important to me personally probably because my two previous marriages ended with my wife committing adultery although we were married for 7 and 10 years. So I can see how Jehovah must feel when someone who says they love you are disloyal to your face. I am currently married to my wife of 8 years and I believe we both must continue to develop loyalty to GOD FIRST then to each other. "Do ALL things for God's glory" 1 Cor. 10:31. And I no longer feel it is for me "God's glory" to be here. Goodbye.

We know. Satan can say things that are true also. But Titus 1:16 - he is not approved by God anymore than a blogger is who upvotes apostates and agrees with their haughty attitudes or "special interpretations".  

I realize that I am not an elder or former elder such as some of you are but I know what Loyalty to Jehovah is. And since a forum such as this one it is impossible to determine who is or is not an apostate, disfellowshipped or pretending to be a brother while dispensing divisions  and we are obviously associating together here it is my decision to now leave as I wish to cherish true Loyalty to my Creator. 
Loyalty is important to me personally probably because my two previous marriages ended with my wife committing adultery although we were married for 7 and 10 years. So I can see how Jehovah must feel when someone who says they love you are disloyal to your face. I am currently married to my wife of 8 years and I believe we both must continue to develop loyalty to GOD FIRST then to each other. "Do ALL things for God's glory" 1 Cor. 10:31. And I no longer feel it is for me "God's glory" to be here. Goodbye.

(Gulp!) I have done this on the rare occasions that they behave and say something worthwhile.
Remember, even you-know-you says a good word every now and then. Besides, there is a certain air of comedy about this entire forum. Going for the jugular of your nemesis no matter what he says only lends it a ridiculous flavor.

"They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of ANY sort." Titus 1:16.
All the upvoters of apostates just continue to prove the point. Keep it up. 

"They publicly declare that they know God, but they disown him by their works, because they are detestable and disobedient and not approved for good work of ANY sort." Titus 1:16.
All the upvoters of apostates just continue to prove the point. Keep it up. 

Hmmm kinda reminds you of all the JW elders and their secret sins.  I love how witnesses always ask for the indiscretions of their members and leaders to be overlooked but continually harp on or about any issue with Ex members.  The hypocrisy is palpable.

The source did NOT make those things any LESS true.
If your allegiance is to the TRUTH ... it is never mis-spent.

I may have expressed something inelegantly but, in general, if it goes back from before I was born, I lose interest. If it also it requires eyestrain  - I am not an eagle-eyed kid anymore - it disappears almost entirely.
You have to be an historian for something that long ago, and that's not my thing - not for the sake of some piddly item that may have been no more than a bad hair day. If the man says he can't translate, what do I care? The fact is, it is translated by someone, they all remain anonymous there, who knows what was farmed out and to who? Of maybe God wrote it himself. (sigh...I'm being facetious here) The fact is, the translation exists and it get high marks. Not by Trinitarians, for it messes with some verses that cannot be rendered literally because it louses up their teaching. And there are some academics who look askance at the Name in the New Testament - inclusion of which is explained in an appendix. But other than that, it's well thought of.
If you have to go back 70 years to dig up dirt, there can't be much dirt to dig up. Statements play differently at different time periods - just watch a movie from that time, or reflect that John differs so much from the other three gospels because times had changed and the foremost needs of the congregation had changed with them. So I don't necessarily want to unravel mindsets back then that accommodated statements that today's mindsets do not, especially if I think an opponent simply wants, and cannot get his head around anything but, a sound byte.
Anyone can go back and have at it debating events back and forth and I'm not suggesting they can't or that it is a waste of time if they do. I'm just saying it it should hardly be considered mandatory after many decades, and a perfectly valid possible response is: 'who cares?' Even were a report from that long ago completely true, in our times complete scoundrels overhaul their image in far fewer years. So it doesn't interest me much to go there. Others will differ. More power to them if they do. But it's not mandatory.
Similarly, I have little taste for things having to do with chronology, because even if opponents were to be absolutely correct, it amounts to little more than misreading a bus schedule. In athletics, runners jump the gun all the time, and they simply restart the race; nobody makes a big deal over it. It's the runner sitting on his rear end at the starting blocks that you wonder about. Grumblers here ought to specify whether they still even believe we are in the last days. Some do. But some have gone atheist, and dismiss ISIS as just one of those things - why, there have always been bad people.
i like the truth also because it makes you nicer over time, when applied. I follow many sources on Twitter, which is the best way to get news, because you can choose your feeds. I choose all kinds of villains, along with the agreeable, so as to keep tabs on them. Few persons are as openly condescending and contemptuous than certain prominent atheists. Sometimes I worry that their cherished evolution is true and that they are the end result. If so, it's good-bye to the human race, for they do not suffer fools gladly. And a fool is anyone who disagrees with them.

Or you could just say 'it was 70 years ago. Who cares? Even if it was 100% faithfully reported, they've had plenty of time to shape up.' Everyone knows the world 70 years ago bears little resemblance to today.
If someone insists on acting as a 10-year old, there's no need to go there with him.

And since Jesus said "I am the way..." then the true faith would be Christian yet not believe in the Trinity. Very good point - we are the one. JW.ORG.

I hope I don't get in trouble for this off topic remark but...back in WW 2 fighter pilots use to bring balls of aluminum foil with them. When they went into the enemy territory they would throw them out of the cockpit window. The reason for this was to mask the identity of his plane since the radar at that time could not tell the difference between a plane a flock of birds or aluminum foil. Therefore by illustration Satan has thrown out thousands of religions calling themselves "Christian" and yet only a handful of other sects of other religions. So Satan knows the true religion is one of Christianity's faiths since he is trying to hide it like a needle in a haystack. There are over 2,000 sects of Christianity but how many different Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists are there?   Something to think about.

No. They're not.
Why harp on them, then? Who cares?
 

Like I really should watch CNN to learn the truth about Trump or Breitbart to learn the truth about Obama?
I'll choose what I choose to see in proper context, neither cherry-picked nor skewed.
If tiny sound-byte snippets appeal to you - I have never known you to post anything else - they do not to me. I prefer comments well-rounded, in appropriate context, and not thrust upon me by someone who so pleadingly and pathetically has an agenda. I'm not opposed to looking at things, and I have looked at things. I will just not allow opponents to focus the lens for me. I'll do that myself.
Nobody is in prison, are they? You are trying to bake some acknowledged grains - even if they be more than grains - into a seven layer cake.
Please don't harp on this with me. There were two or three very long threads on this subject not long ago. I participated fully and you even threw in some cartoons. I don't want to re-invent the wheel throughout eternity. Go back and revisit those threads. Add to them if you think there is anything not covered.
I don't view this forum as your own personal courtroom, to cross-examine people at will. In any real courtroom, the judge eventually tells a lawyer to shut up when he does nothing but hurl accusations, repeat his same questions, and takes no note of the answers.

It Depends on where you live and the community standards. Beards are not acceptable In most cases in U.S. at the current time. Look at pics in publications. When I see governing body members wearing beards, I will realize it is acceptable here.

I just like playing with mice but sometimes its a bit tiresome. With all four of them.

Do we all really need some sort of chat area?
Or what am I missing here?
Maybe I ate something bad for dinner.....I'm feeling cranky today.