Ann O'Maly

(Not this old bunkum again.) No. It. Doesn't.

Please review this post: http://forum.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/916-reinstatement-no2/?do=findComment&comment=2120 Out of the 11 scholars you named, 6 supported my view; 1 did not support my view; the rest are invalid as they didn't offer comment one way or the other.

Well, whoever put the article on the jwdotorg must have had the GB's OK and today it still headlines the Newsroom section, so you tell me.

Sainsbury's apologises after a customer was told he could not have black pudding in his Full English breakfast because the Jehovah's Witness chef would not prepare it Alan MacKay told he could not enjoy black pudding at Nottingham store He was offered a full refund and instead made his own breakfast at home Supermarket giant said its chef had no issue serving bloodied sausage Chef took object to dish as Jehovah's Witness believe blood is sacrosanct By Alex Matthews For Mailonline Published: 09:16, 24 March 2016 | Updated: 15:56, 24 March 2016 Sainsbury's has been forced to apologise after its Jehovah's Witness chef refused to serve a customer black pudding with his Full English breakfast. Alan MacKay was stunned when he was told he could not enjoy the staple, made up of animal fat, blood and oatmeal, with his meal at the branch in Arnold, Nottingham. After receiving his incomplete dish the former police officer was told the black pudding would not be served because it was against the religious beliefs of the chef to do so. Missing: This is the Full English Alan MacKay should have received while dining at Sainsbury's in Nottingham Jehovah’s Witness regard blood as sacrosanct and if an animal hasn’t been bled to their standards they won’t eat it. Mr MacKay, who had popped into the store after dropping his wife off at work at 9am, said: 'I know it sounds trivial, but it's the principal behind it that's ridiculous. 'If she refuses to cook black pudding because of her religion, what is she doing working in a kitchen that sells it? She shouldn't be employed if she won't cook the menu. 'I was really looking forward to my black pudding. You get a good breakfast in there. 'But when I went into the cafe to order my black pudding, like as I have done before, I went away hungry. I was really cheesed off. 'I came home and had my breakfast at 11.30am. I had crumpets, a poached egg and beans. I didn't buy black pudding because it's quite fatty so I only have it once a week or so. 'Sainsbury's does a wonderful black pudding, so that's why I was so disappointed. It's one of the few big stores that sells black pudding. Morrison's doesn't.' Mistake: A spokeswoman said Mr MacKay was forced to go without due to a mix up between the kitchen team Mr MacKay said he was 'cheesed off' when he was not served his full meal at this Sainsbury's cafe because it usually serves up 'wonderful black pudding' Mr MacKay was offered a refund by Sainsbury's who explained the error was down to a mix up between the kitchen team on duty. A spokeswoman said a member of staff had misunderstood that the chef had asked them to prepare the black pudding, not that black pudding could not be served. 'We have apologised to the customer for the misunderstanding.' she added. JEHOVAH'S WITNESS BELIEFS: APART FROM MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY Jehovah's Witnesses are a worldwide brotherhood amounting to over eight million members. Jehovah's say that as Jesus Christ did not limit his kingdom to a certain part of the world, they do not allow themselves to be attached to a country, ethnicity or political belief system. Members believe that the bible was inspired by God or 'Jehovah' and is completely historically accurate. As a result, if a theory clashes with the bible they believe it to be wrong. Jehovah's do believe in Jesus, but they think he died on a stake rather than a cross. This is because of the Greek word used for cross in the bible which translates to 'stake' or 'tree'. Members say that when someone dies their existence stops completely and as a result they do not believe in Hell. Their other reasoning for this is that God would not want to punish humans for eternity. Members do not accept blood transfusions because they believe God has forbidden this in the bible (In particular making reference Genesis 9:3-4 and Acts 15:19-21). Jehovah's say that God believes blood represents life, so out of respect and obedience they do not tamper with it. Source: Jehovah’s Witnesses Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3507433/Sainsbury-s-apologises-customer-told-not-black-pudding-English-breakfast-Jehovah-s-Witness-chef-not-prepare-it.html#ixzz43qzjk9F2

As far as I can remember from what I've read, there was considerably more to the charges than unpalatable content in the 'Finished Mystery' book. Some senior WT officials had been trying to influence active servicemen to disobey their superiors. That is sedition. It's noteworthy that, for a long time, the Society claimed the charges were false and that they were later fully exonerated in court. This wasn't true, as court documents bore out. The Society officials were never exonerated. The charges were simply dropped because the war had ended and no further action against the Society was taken. Over the last decade, the publications have partially corrected the wording. *** re (1988 ed.) p. 32 6 Unlocking a Sacred Secret *** "Early in 1918 the Kingdom activity of Jehovah's people met with great opposition. It was a time of testing earth wide, and fearful ones were sifted out. In May 1918 Christendom's clergy instigated the imprisonment of officials of the Watch Tower Society, but nine months later these were released. Later, they were completely exonerated of the false charges against them." *** km 9/06 p. 3 Adjustments for the Book Revelation—Its Grand Climax At Hand! *** "p. 32, box, replace first paragraph with: ... ... Early in 1918 the Kingdom activity of Jehovah’s people met with great opposition. It was a time of testing earth wide, and fearful ones were sifted out. In May 1918 Christendom’s clergy instigated the imprisonment of officials of the Watch Tower Society, but nine months later these were released. Later, the false charges against them were dropped."

Stop trying to bend this around. You made the claim that 'most scholars disagreed' with the idea that John was targeting the Docetic heresies in 2 John. I asked you to support your claim. You could not. 'Not mentioning' does not support your assertion about disagreement either. Only one on your list expressed a disagreement. Shall we move on from this dead horse now? And regarding heretics in the ever-changing JW organization: today's heresy can be tomorrow's truth. Besides, the majority of those disfellowshipped are guilty of some sexual sin. Where does this fit with 2 John's warning about not greeting false teachers?

This makes me feel very uncomfortable. There was the animation where Sophia decided to forego her ice cream and put money in the contribution box instead; then there was the praise given by one of the GB on JW Broadcasting to one little girl who sent in cash with a card and photo; and now the concept of children donating to the Org. is further embedded with this little puzzle activity. Question: If a charity produced a TV commercial, show or website which was specifically designed to influence young children to donate their pocket money to their cause, would you as parents, carers or objective observers think this was appropriate targeting?

I know it doesn't exactly answer your question - I could only think of an observation and didn't want to leave your post hanging. The core difficulty is the 1914/1919 eschatology that colors every JW interpretation of Revelation.

Babylonian captivity was punishment for the unfaithfulness and disobedience of God's people. The old JW understanding of the captivity to Babylon the Great incorporated the idea of punishment: *** w55 12/1 p. 722 par. 17 Avoidance Inside the Cities of Refuge *** "The original part of this remnant passed through the years of World War I, during which they became captive to the Babylonish world because they came under the fear of men in high station and their course of action was not altogether clean from this world, not entirely neutral toward the mortal combats of this world. How much of bloodguiltiness Jehovah at his temple judged to be upon them, we do not definitely know. But after he released them from their captivity to Babylon in 1919 they repented of any measure of sin in any respect, confessed their guilt and endeavored to clean up their worship of him under his guidance by Christ. Moreover, since then, and particularly down to 1931, thousands who were definitely tainted with bloodguilt heard the message of the Kingdom and of the coming Armageddon and they began to flee to the antitypical city of refuge. They repented and turned to God for mercy. With faith in his High Priest Jesus Christ they gave themselves in full dedication to God to do his will ever afterward and to remain strictly within his merciful provisions to be safeguarded against the executing of all the bloodguilty at Armageddon." *** kj chap. 11 p. 207 par. 33 Disappointment in Store for Overconfident Ones *** "These dedicated worshipers, anointed with Jehovah’s spirit, were brought into a Babylonish captivity and exile during the world war of 1914-1918 and underwent a severe disciplining then." With the biblical captivity and the previous JW modern-day application, punishment only lasted for a short time - less than a standard lifespan for the former, and a few months for the latter. I cannot see a chatisement-deliverance component in the new modern day interpretation. Perhaps this is because it's hard for a single generation to learn a 1900-year-long lesson?

Whole section of my post was lost. Will redo below.

As I said, anybody can read this thread and the Christmas one and decide for themselves whether your blustering claims had any credible support.

Again, the link to the thread has been provided so readers can make up their own minds on how our exchange went down. If you remember, I checked and dismantled your encyclopedia and book references one-by-one. Your choices were so cuckoo that you even included a reference about Easter customs and one about the summertime Spanish bull running festival to support your assertions about Saturnalia! Mysteriously deleted threads where you 'proved' I was wrong about Saturnalia? Hmm. It must be a diabolical conspiracy. The only thread where I had a lengthy discussion with you about it was the one already linked to. Other Christmas threads I commented on were here: http://www.jw-archive.org/post/71038126433/some-interesting-material-from-the-december-15 http://www.jw-archive.org/post/135925203268/nimrod-linked-to-santa-claus-nimrod-was-first

What do you make of the current idea about 2 groups of anointed overlapping with one another which comprises one generation? Oh and when I said, This would be a fruitful research project for you, Sarah. I meant to put your name as you were the OP. Should worn my reading glasses.

Huh? It was demonstrated to you in great detail (as you had only provided names but no references) that the list showed your assertion to be false. But 2 John 9-11 follows on from 2 John 7's warning about Docetic heresy, doesn't it? Um ... so why are you defending it? Why?

I would agree, but the Org likes to pride itself on getting the date and time 'just right.' If it's not important to have The Most Important Day of the Year on the right day, then why not use western Christianity's dating system? 'Erred view'? Lol, I think your memory might be tricking you. You rehashed Hislopian misconceptions, tried to pass off fiction and fable as historical fact, and copy-pasted any old bits of nonsense off the internet in a vain attempt to add weight to sensationalist, unverified claims about ancient Christmas practice. To aid your recall (and for anyone else who might be interested), here's a link to the thread: http://www.jw-archive.org/post/135927951593/how-was-christmas-passed-down-to-us-in

Why does my uploaded and saved cover photo always disappear?

I agree with their comment here: *** w06 12/1 pp. 5-6 The Antichrist Exposed *** "Ideas of a purely symbolic resurrection were later developed by a group called Gnostics. Believing that knowledge (gnoʹsis in Greek) could be derived in a mystical way, Gnostics combined brother Christianity with Greek philosophy and Oriental mysticism. For instance, they held that all physical matter is evil, and for that reason, Jesus did not come in the flesh but only seemed to have a human body—a belief called Docetism. As we have seen, this is precisely what the apostle John had warned against.—1 John 4:2, 3; 2 John 7." Perhaps you don't, AB?

AnonymousBrother, I asked you, "Which scholars disagree that John was targeting the Docetic heresies?" You answered with a list of names. Only one of those names expressed a disagreement that John was targeting Docetic heresies. Your new post doesn't add to the tally. Huh? Again, not clearly referenced. The second Brooke quote ("We have seen ...") comes from p. xlv. I had already taken the preceding and succeeding pages into account before I summarized Brooke's argument. Both your reproduced excerpts, as is plain from the the references to 'ch.v' and 'earlier chapters' are talking about 'the Epistle,' namely, 1 John. We, however, are focusing on 2 John. Brooke supports more my argument than yours. So I ask again, other than the gnostic Docetics, which other groups taught that Jesus did not come in the flesh but was an apparition? How in your head do you make a non-mention a 'disagreement'? Talk about 'knight-jump' reasoning! He already supported them in his introductory comments to 2 John, as I already pointed out. You think he changed his mind between pages? Other than the gnostic Docetics, which other groups taught that Jesus did not come in the flesh but was an apparition? Anyway, the tally of 'disagreeing scholars' from your list still comes to ... One.

From https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/world/jehovahs-witnesses-receive-telly-awards/: “The Telly Awards has a mission to honor the very best in film and video,” said Linda Day, executive director of the Telly Awards. “The Witnesses’ accomplishment in the jw.org Newsroom illustrates their creativity, skill, and dedication to their craft and serves as a testament to great film and video production.” Seen this quote before? “The Telly Awards has a mission to honor the very best in film and video,” said Linda Day, executive director of the Telly Awards. “JIST Career Solution’s accomplishment illustrates their creativity, skill and dedication to their craft and serves as a testament to great film and video production.” - http://jist.emcp.com/telly-awards “The Telly Awards has a mission to honor the very best in film and video,” said Linda Day, Executive Director of the Telly Awards. “Impact Communications’ accomplishment illustrates their creativity, skill, and dedication to their craft and serves as a testament to great video production.” - http://impactcommunications.com/news_item/impact-receives-eight-telly-awards/ “The Telly Awards has a mission to honor the very best in film and video,” said Linda Day, Executive Director of the Telly Awards. “Red Circle’s accomplishment illustrates their creativity, skill, and dedication to their craft and serves as a testament to great film and video production.” - http://redcircleagency.com/red-circle-wins-11-telly-awards/ The Telly Awards has a mission to honor the very best in film and video, said Linda Day, Executive Director of the Telly Awards. Quest Groups accomplishment illustrates their creativity, skill, and dedication to their craft and serves as a testament to great film and video production. - http://wbecsouth.org/quest-group-lands-win-at-annual-telly-awards/ So it's one of those stock quotes where you [insert company name here]. Totally fake.

Thanks for the other link, Giannis. I'll look at that later. And thanks for the offer of help if I ever need it.

But not upvote your own posts! Lol!

Also: *** ka chap. 16 p. 296 par. 7 Completion of the Foretold “Sign” Nears *** "Counted from the year of Jesus’ prophecy on the subject, the Jewish system of things had thirty-seven years yet to go, less than a generation with a life-span of forty years." *** it-1 p. 540 Wilderness Wanderings of Israel *** "This brought Jehovah’s swift judgment: Forty years would pass before the nation would enter the Promised Land. By then, the faithless members of that generation would have died off." So the questions are, Could there be a flaw in the Org's eschatology? If so, what is it? Could there be more than one flaw? This would be a fruitful research project for you, Sarah.

Ah, I see you've read this article too: http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/was-jesus-last-supper-a-seder/ It's definitely worth reading. I saved it to my computer a couple of years ago. There's another factor to this debate: Jesus was the Passover Lamb (1 Cor. 5:7). Wouldn't it undermine the symbolism if Jesus was sacrificed after Passover? Also consider: John 18:28 - "Then they led Jesus from Caʹia·phas to the governor’s residence. It was now early in the morning. But they themselves did not enter into the governor’s residence, so that they would not get defiled but could eat the Passover." But surely they would have already eaten Passover at the same time Jesus and his disciples did?

Although it's a lot easier for us English-speaking folks not to have to transliterate your name from Greek when addressing you, it is a bit of a cheat to have Γιαννης upvote/like posts by Giannis.

And the point, JWTheologian, of your contribution to this topic about the Memorial with stuff about Saturnalia is ... ?