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JaniceM

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  1. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from Queen Esther in Chinese Communist Party to commence nationwide crackdown on Christianity including Jehovah's Witnesses   
    So sad these developments.  Lot of prayers to be answered.
  2. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Queen Esther in How cute... A tiny turtle just born on a hand - already looking out of the egg, so sweet ❤ Jehovah's creations so unique and awesome !   
    How  cute  ;o)  A  tiny  turtle  just  born  on  a  hand  -  already  looking  out  of  the  egg,  so  sweet ❤  Jehovah's  creations  so  unique  and  awesome !
  3. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from JAMMY in Russian Police in Masks Plant Evidence against Jehovah's Witnesses in Stavropol   
    Maybe I can email the link to the major newspaper outlets and popular news shows as well as all the permanent missions members of UN and congress/senate members.  That will be a task to get all those email addresses but I'll try in the next few days.
  4. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from Queen Esther in Russian Police in Masks Plant Evidence against Jehovah's Witnesses in Stavropol   
    Maybe I can email the link to the major newspaper outlets and popular news shows as well as all the permanent missions members of UN and congress/senate members.  That will be a task to get all those email addresses but I'll try in the next few days.
  5. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Queen Esther in SIBERIA, RUSSIA, Our brothers try by all means not to stop meeting for the Watchtower Study, despite their Kingdom Halls being closed   
    SIBERIA, RUSSIA. Our brothers try by all means not to stop meeting for the Watchtower Study, despite their Kingdom Halls being closed  
    ( translated  by  google )
  6. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Murder-suicide: Jehovah’s Witness family found dead in SC home   
    I thought the story was familiar.  Some are not satisfied unless they are the bearer of bad news and picking apart everything that could possibly be wrong.
  7. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Evacuated in Why no warning regarding Warwick?   
    Who knows what we all eat, drink, breathe, and whatever else in this rumor-ridden, pathetic excuse for a civilised society?
    Surely with your talent for digging you could find some information on this interesting topic? I know it would be a bit different from your usual area of expertise but your skills are presumably transferable?
    ...and I've ingested a fair bit from some of the posts on this site, but thanks still for the immunity from it's toxic effects that you have apparently granted me!"
    C'mon @JayWitness, this is not up to your usual standard. Let's have some real news!
     
     
  8. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Jim Seward in Remarkable Prediction in a 1922 Golden Age Magazine   
    Thank you for the sharing my blog post.   I didn't see the URL, so here it is: http://jimspace3000.blogspot.com/2014/10/remarkable-prediction-in-1922-golden.html
    Not included was the comparison to Tesla at the bottom. 
  9. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to JW Insider in Remarkable Prediction in a 1922 Golden Age Magazine   
    The Brooklyn Daily Eagle, a newspaper just a few blocks away from the Brooklyn Bethel HQ ran an advertisement for the Wireless Phones, attached below.
    It includes the words: "Those who can see into the future prophesy that this means as great a revolution in its effect on social and political life as has been brought about by motion pictures. . [offering]. . splendid music . . . the news of the day . . . sporting events . . . weather forecasts . . stock market reports, reports, speeches by leading men." (Brooklyn Daily Eagle, February 1, 1922. p. 11)
    On April 23, 1922 the Eagle ran a small ad for someone wanting to trade a soccer ball for two of them.
     

  10. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to io.porog in Remarkable Prediction in a 1922 Golden Age Magazine   
    I believe the same article had the thought that Daniel 12: 4 was fulfilled in 'trains' that 'roved' the lands. So, with some extrapolation it is possible to predict some things. In 1993, while in High School, I drew a Tablet-like device that I called "Watchtower Windows"  It was to be a touch screen device with all our material on it and we would be using them at meetings  
    One current idea is an interface that stimulates the part of the brain where hallucinations and dreams come from, to make an image appear in your visual space. There's a Bible app that comes with it. It would be like seeing a holographic image in front of you however, it's fully interactive because the brain is literally the computer running the software. Normally, people would not be able to see what your brain is projecting in front of you. But the interface could link people so that they see the same image. 
    The implications of such a technology are profound, already there are basic thought controlled devices making their way to the market. So, it's not hard to see several generations from now. 
    I have dubbed the technology "MiND" a play on the phrase My Neural Device.
    In the near future, I think we will get our own 'clean' internet that runs completely independently. Just my thoughts
     
     
  11. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Christians look forward to the rapture   
    I'm sorry, but I did not see where it mentions you must believe in the year 1914 in order to receive salvation but to be associated as one of Jehovah's Witnesses:
    *** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
    Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
     
    Therefore, I would have to agree to disagree.  At one point an elder mentioned they do not always agree when coming together to meet on issues, but in the end they have to come to a meeting of minds so that there is not a split or cause for angry divisions, which throughout history resulted in many denominations that sprang up.  I can agree with the main tenets of my faith, and whatever thoughts I harbor will be between me and Jehovah and not big enough issues for me to cause chaos. 
  12. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Christians look forward to the rapture   
    I understand your concern.  However, the same would apply to any other religious organization that demand its members uphold their beliefs or consider them gone astray.  It was once considered apostasy by the church to read the Bible among many other rules and regulations.  I would have to say I've never agreed with the all the beliefs of any denomination and that includes my own.  If considered apostasy, ultimately eternal judgement or condemnation is by means of Christ.  My God-given common sense would tell me the entire range does not include jumping off a bridge or drinking poisoned kool aid.
     
    Because we have freedom of speech, anyone can give their opinions or reverse their opinions.  If there's a point so strongly that we can't reconcile what we believe is true, we have a choice to allow God to direct us to make the right decision whether to stay in place or move on in our endeavors.  Despite any imperfections in word or deed, we are commanded to continue preaching the good news of God's kingdom.
     
    (Acts 5:38-40) . . . if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.” 40 . . .
     
    The scriptures in 1 Thessalonians read:
     
    i*** Bible Citations ***
    1 Thess 4:15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. 18 So keep comforting one another with these words.
     
     
    it does not sound like an immediate event for I assume many of the apostles and disciples were still alive at that time, and all have since died.  If Paul spoke of any living until Christ descent, it appears the event would have reached down to our time beginning with the first ones fallen asleep in death. 
     
    If the Watchtower or society wrote an opinion or something different in this aspect from 1879-2016, I don't think I will have a great issue with it.  The important thing is the resurrection will occur and we will have righteous rulers to benefit all of society for the better.  I do have some things to do, so excuse me if I don't respond right away.
  13. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Christians look forward to the rapture   
    Thanks again Holly,
    I did manage to read the entire article.  I would agree with the article concerning those basic teachings including perhaps 1914 as being a marked year as the end of the gentile period or beginning of Christ's reign in the heavens.  However, there is no one scripture that directly mentions the year, 1914, or that one must believe this in order to receive salvation.  Therefore, I disagree it should be a reason for branding anyone an apostate if they believe otherwise.  The end of the article states:
     
    *** w86 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***
    Of course, if a person just has doubts or is uninformed on a point, qualified ministers will lovingly assist him. This accords with the counsel: “Continue showing mercy to some that have doubts; save them by snatching them out of the fire.” (Jude 22, 23) Hence, the true Christian congregation cannot rightly be accused of being harshly dogmatic, but it does highly value and work toward the unity encouraged in God’s Word.
     
    Finally, growing up among several different Christian denominations from the First Baptist Church to the Second/Third Baptist/Methodist Church (smile), if you don't believe in hellfire, or if your females wear pants, don't cover their heads, or divorced, etc., they're not one of us and going to hell.  I think all denominations have rules, beliefs and guidelines they require their parishioners to abide by or believe.  Again, in my case, I've had to choose my battles. 
  14. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Queen Esther in POPE FRANCIS PRAISES JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES WORLDWIDE !!   
    THE  FRANCISCO  POPE  PRAISES  GOD’S  WITNESSES  WORLDWIDE !!
    Moving – Pascom Porto Feliz: Catholic Conference discusses increasing Witnesses … What drives so many people to become Jehovah’s Witnesses? This was the question asked by some clerics, as shown by the following quotations. For example, in Bologna, Italy, the ecclesiastical authorities, with the approval of the pope, held a conference to discuss ways to combat the success of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
    The Catholic Church raised a “cry of alarm”, the newspaper La Republica, because every year ten thousand Catholics become Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Jesuit Giuseppe De Rosa said that “the religious point of view the most dangerous are Jehovah’s Witnesses. They come fully trained, and always have the Bible in hand.”
    In an article that deals specifically with Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Jesuit journal La Civilta Cattolica said:
    “The first reason for the spread of this movement are the propaganda techniques [ie, in preaching]. On the one hand, the work is thorough, carried from house to house by people who are strictly trained in this work, and are deeply convinced [ …] ”
    “The second reason for the success of TJs is the force of attraction of Jehovah’s message, because it can meet the needs, demands and expectations of the people of our time. First, answers the need for certainty, which is much appreciated at a time where everything is uncertain and unstable. […] Above all, it is an absolutely safe revelation of the future and, therefore, all who accepted, experience freedom from fear and anxiety and can face the future with joy, with ensuring that survive the destruction that will come the great day of God’s judgment on a wicked world, to live in eternal happiness on earth. Second, Jehovah’s message helps to overcome the concern of the individual against the woes of this world, announces that soon will end the unbearable situation of today, and soon, so there will be a new era will be born a new world in which all the wicked will be removed now triumph. […] ”
    “The third reason for the success of TJs is that this movement gives its members a precise identity and strong, and is a place where they were greeted with warmth and a sense of brotherhood and solidarity.”
    The Vatican document analyzed the needs of people today, and the quote above the Jesuit journal La Civilta Cattolica showed that the message of Jehovah’s Witnesses meet those needs. This also showed Vittorio Messori Catholic writer in his recent book Scommesse sulla morte (a bet on death), who writes: “It makes us think that Jehovah’s Witnesses, is one of the religious denominations of the fastest growing in the world. It is among the religions that are practiced in many countries and perhaps […] is first in terms of fervor, zeal, activism, the ability to make proselytes. ” “And his presence, increasingly pronounced, is not limited to Christian tradition countries, but reaching the whole world, where in the name of Jehovah, and before long, they get results that are superior to those of Catholic missionaries, Protestants and Orthodox, who have worked for centuries. ”
    “This stunning expansive force is incomprehensible only to those who simply do not want to admit that […] course in how to understand the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses meet the real needs that other theologies do not meet.” “You can not get around the issue suggesting that the growth of witnesses is because they scare people is precisely the opposite:. Unlike the churches” official “, deny the existence of hell and preach the destruction, disappearance after death to the wicked and unbelieving. This may be an unpleasant prospect, but certainly less frightening than the threat of a terrible pain for all eternity. “Yes, the God of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a loving God, and not one that terrorizes the people .
    The following quote is the Catholic magazine Mondo ERRE March 1986: “It must be said that Jehovah’s Witnesses are the first to live the faith they preach: Do not IRAM, do not smoke, do not accumulate wealth, remain outside the political discussions […] pay taxes. They live a virtuous and honest life, they are happy and helpful. All this has made people appreciate the ”
    I’m glad to know that they have had success in evangelizing them my family is Catholic more from small learn to admire their work in all the earth ….
     
  15. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from Melinda Mills in Christians look forward to the rapture   
    I personally would not be an expert in the subject or the exact year in time, but Jehovah Witnesses believe that after Jesus was enthroned in the kingdom, the beginning of those that would rule with Christ were resurrected.  Those resurrected throughout the centuries would have begun with the apostles and many of the early disciples.  If any remain on earth at the time of Christ's arrival, my understanding is that they would have to die or be baptized into the death of Christ and then instantly resurrected to join Christ and the angels in the war of Armageddon.
  16. Upvote
    JaniceM got a reaction from JW Insider in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    Haughtiness? . . . I'm not sure.  Maybe, a bad attempt at saving face?  It could be that you're right.  A resume might involve some puffing up in details or credentials.  There's nothing wrong with having confidence or pride in your work record or abilities, except if your history and abilities become overstated or based on fallacy.
     
    Oh, and I didn't really mean dates and times literally. (smile) 
     
    You mentioned earlier the prophets surrounding King Ahab were guilty of false prophecy except Micaiah.  However, if I remember correctly, the prophet Micaiah also uttered a falsehood as God's representative.  I hate to say lied but it was most definitely false testimony, or what most would call a bold-face lie!
     
    " . . . At once he replied: “Go up and you will be successful; Jehovah will give it into the king’s hand.” (1 Kings 22:15)
     
    King Ahab knew he was lying and called him on it: 
    "At that the king said to him: “How many times must I put you under oath not to speak to me anything but the truth in the name of Jehovah?” (1 Kings 22:15)
     
    Only then did Micaiah cough up the truth adding a somewhat elusive dream about seeing Jehovah on his throne questioning which angel wanted to fool the prophets.
     
    What if the King did not question Micaiah any further and just accepted what he wanted to hear as from the other prophets?  Was Micaiah afraid to tell him the truth?  If so, he had a right to be afraid.  As a consequence, he ended up being struck and in chains.
     
    What about Adam when God asked him if he had eaten of the fruit.  There is no admission of guilt, and he dodged answering directly by giving God the glorious credit of giving him a woman to feed him.  (lol) 
     
    I can certainly see where it is can be difficult at best to admit when we have made mistakes, said or done wrong, whether out of fear or consequence.  I am though beginning to see how ego, haughtiness and arrogance might be applied if insisting that others must agree with revelations of God's appointed faithful and discreet slave even though such preconceived notions can be erroneous and not a basis or necessary for salvation.   Therein lies the problem which can cause others to be labeled apostates if they don't agree.  How have we come to see so clearly the falseness of others, without recognizing the rafters obstructing our vision?  It does take much humility to admit being wrong. 
  17. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Evacuated in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    Anna, further to the excellent comment and reference posted by @ThePraeceptor, I do not understand all the fuss about this idea. It is not an inspired expression. And neither can I see a Bible "rule" on what constitutes a "generation" I mean, what was a generation in the time of Noah? Was it the time until his first child?, his lifespan?
    It is merely a way of looking at a time period and providing what I see as a very simple suggestion on how a period of time that might exceed the lifetime of an individual in the 20th or 21st Century could still be viewed as a "generation". I didn't actually need a chart to grasp that concept myself.
    And anyway, surely the "system of things" comes to an end for the individual either as soon as one accepts the fact that Jehovah's kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ cast Satan out of the heavens in 1914CE as described at Revelation 12:7-12?. Or at the latest, as soon as one accepts Christ's ransom sacrifice, and disowns oneself  in harmony with his instruction at Matt.8:34?
    Let's get real here! I'm not going to worry about the colour of my shoelaces when I am out in the pouring rain!
    Thanks for the prophecy .pdf by the way. Most interesting.  
  18. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Anna in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    That is something I cannot understand. WHY try to explain the generation? Obviously this "new  (overlapping) understanding" is not something just put out there to see if it sticks. The GB never publicize anything unless it has been studied, and re-studied and re-searched, sometimes even over several years apparently. So it has to have been the same in this case. What I would like to know is what is it that made them arrive at this conclusion?  And also why did they think there was a need to explain the Generation again?  It is obvious in Jesus day it was 40 years. Abraham's 400 years was 4 generations. So a generation is either 40 or 100 years. Why overlap anything??? There is nothing about overlapping in the scriptures is there?
    Next week, when we study it in our Cong. Bible study, I am going to ask an elder if someone does not believe in the overlapping generation, would they lose Jehovah's approval. I will let you know what answer I get .
  19. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Anna in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    I agree with you there. It seems that "we" just cannot plainly come out and say "we were wrong" instead of beating around the bush or using all the other adjectives you described. I think this may be because "we" feel, as God's ambassadors that, we really cannot, or should not make any mistakes in the eyes of others. I remember when I was a child, I thought my mother was perfect, that she never made any mistakes. She was my protector and someone I looked up to. Of course as I got older I realized she was not perfect. I also realized she was trying to keep me from finding out her imperfections by never actually admitting when she erred. I asked her why. She said it was because she did not want me to lose my trust in her. That she wanted me, as a child, to view her with confidence. This reminded me of something I read about the GB saying something very similar. That they do not want the "other sheep" to lose their confidence in them. I think this may very well be the reason why "we" just cannot plainly and freely admit mistakes, after all, "we have a reputation to live up to"!
  20. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Anna in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    1)      How about  John 11:26? Obviously  those people in Jesus’ day died. But they didn’t die in Jehovah’s memory and will have the prospect of living forever. Although obviously Rutherford was being literal, we could look at it in a similar way, so in view of the above, it was not a lie.
    2)      In my opinion the GB etc. never prophesied about  anything as such. What they put forward was merely the interpretation of existing Biblical prophecy.
    3)      Not sure about that one...
    4)      After the disappointment and anticlimax of 1914 I guess they  now felt excited and vindicated when they were exonerated and released from prison, and felt this was a good a time as any to “recognize” themselves as the FDS with now the great task of taking care of the domestics and advertising the King and his Kingdom. They recognized that evidently the job Russell started was not done.
    5)      To me personally it does not matter. Fundamental truths are the same and have been almost since the inception of the Bible Students. I don’t view it as a false prophesy, merely an eager and ambitious statement coming from one man and his associates excited about this “new” understanding and  Bible prophesy regarding this subject.  After all, this IS the good news in the Bible, so I don’t think that just because the timing is off, one has to view it with suspicion, or that it should have never been talked about. "Millions now living will never die" WILL eventually happen.
    6)      Possible....Plus Jehovah’s organization on earth will never get everything  perfectly right in this system, for obvious reasons.
    So that's my two shillings
     
  21. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Evacuated in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    1971 The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah p. 70 par. 33 Commissioned To Speak In The Divine Name 
    33. Likewise it was a trying mission upon which the modern Ezekiel class was sent, to religious people the same type as those in Ezekiel's day, But regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom will know that really a "prophet" of Jehovah was among them.
    wt 08 7/15 p. 11 par. 17 Meeting the Challenges of the House-to-House Ministry
    Jehovah assured Ezekiel that when the judgments he proclaimed came true, the rebellious house of Israel would “certainly know also that a prophet himself happened to be in the midst of them.” (Ezek. 2:5) Similarly, when God carries out his judgments against the present system of things, people will be forced to recognize that the message Jehovah’s Witnesses preached in public places and from house to house actually originated with the one true God, Jehovah, and that the Witnesses really did serve as his representatives.
    I am not sure we have such a rigid interpretation now as in the Nations Shall Know days.
    Well don't you feel that the honesty should extend to defining "prophecies" in a way that reflects the non-scriptural understanding of this word?
    Mistakes, misjudgements, misapplications, errors etc. are well within the province of imperfect men who are unable to 'bridle the tongue' (compare Ja. 3:2).
    But given the scriptural association of the term "false prophecies" I feel this designation is exceeding even James' earlier words at Chap 3:1 regarding the "heavier judgement". And in the context of the divinely commissioned role of an inspired prophet of Jehovah, simply not possible. There, I feel, lies a distinction with distinction.
    I agree with this statement entirely and I am looking forward to revisiting this whole area in our consideration of the book God's Kingdom Rules. 
  22. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Evacuated in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    I think this issue has to do with Jehovah's witnesses' understanding of the terms "prophet" and "prophecy" and how they are scripturally applied, whether "true" or "false". And we would have to include our understanding of the role of Jehovah's witnesses in the mix. Much has been said on this matter with vast supporting references and quotations elsewhere in the forum so I will be as brief and simple as I can.
    Whilst Merriam-Webster includes a semblance of the comparatively narrow scriptual definition of a "prophet", it also indicates a rather broader application in modern speech. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prophet .
    However for Jehovah's Witnesses, the scriptural understanding of the word is summed up in the article "Prophet" in the book Insight on the Scriptures Vol 2 with such statements as:
    "One through whom divine will and purpose are made known.." ;
    "..true prophets were no ordinary announcers but were spokesmen for God, ‘men of God’ with inspired messages." ;
    The messages (prophecies), whilst often connected with future matters, are not limited to this, but share the common factor of being divinely inspired of God, thus without error. (2Tim 3:16). As such, if predictions, they would be fulfilled, and if in the form of statements of fact, divine judgement, intention, direction, or instruction, they would be correct, and binding upon those to whom the message was directed. These prophecies, regardless of form, would be uttered with the overall aim to enable man to bring his ways, desires, and goals into line with the divine will. (Rev.19:10; Eph.1:10)

    The role of prophet would thus be greatly privileged, but, by it's nature of divine appointment, highly accountable. This can be seen in the severe biblical condemnations of what are termed "false" prophets. (De.18:20) Self-appointed or corrupted, these false prophets made pronouncements that "lulled the people and their leaders with soothing assurances that, despite their unrighteous course, God was still with them to protect and prosper them." The activity of false prophets  is not limited to ancient times either (Matt. 24:11; 2Pet.2:1). As such, they serve the interests of the Devil, and are termed even as "inspired by demons".(Compare 1Jn 4:1-6; 1Tim.4:1;Rev.13:14)
    Jehovah's witnesses do not see themselves as divinely-inspired in the sense the prophets of old were. Therefore, they do not see their teachings in quite the same light as the divine pronouncements of the prophets of old. 
    So in view of the scriptural anathema attached to the term "false prophecy" and the specific scriptural understanding of that term as opposed to additional secular definitions, I can understand why we would be reluctant to apply the term "false prophecy" to any mistaken views we may have held in the past or even will hold in the future. These are mistakes, misjudgements, misapplications, errors etc.
    But by the same token, I see no contradiction in applying the term "false prophecy" to any teachings or pronouncements from any source that serve to lull the people and their leaders with soothing assurances that, despite their unrighteous course, God is still with them to protect and prosper them, particularly in this "time of the end".  Rev.13:13-16.
  23. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to JW Insider in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    That's a common answer because we can attach a scripture to it. But we have called others false prophets without any concern over whether or not something was said in Jehovah's name. The context of that same quote from 1981 also discusses religious false prophets and makes the point that all religions are "false prophets" except one.
    *** g81 12/8 p. 14 Do You Recognize the Meaning of What You See? ***
    . . . all of today’s religious groups outside this one true faith must, according to this standard, be counterfeits, composite “false prophets.”
    I think there was also a hint as to the official response an article from 1968.
    *** g68 10/8 p. 23 A Time to Lift Up Your Head in Confident Hope *** True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them.
    That idea has the effect, perhaps, of exonerating us from any charge of false prophesying no matter what was ever said because Jehovah's Witnesses always have "God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." So that would be true even if the Watch Tower Society had predicted an "end to the world" and were "even announcing a specific date." And of course, this is exactly what we were doing in those years. Guilty on both counts. Both in 1914 and 1925, at least. One could argue that we should put quotation marks around end of the world, but the article did that, too. One could argue that we didn't include the month and day, but a year is pretty specific in the overall scheme of things. We don't have a problem with the fact that Daniel's "70 weeks" prophecy pointed to a specific year.  
    I was about to respond to Janice with another point that I will place here. I don't have a problem with the fact that we, as an organization were "guilty" of false prophesying. Jehovah's prophets in the past have been guilty of false prophecy and an explanation was given (the prophets of Jehovah around Ahab, except for Micaiah). Perhaps even that explanation in 1 Kings 22 about God sending a lying spirit was really a roundabout way of explaining that these prophets succumbed to wishful thinking (desire to please the king) and therefore the angel was able to "fool" them. That would be more consistent with James' explanation:
    (James 1:13, 14) . . .For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire.
    Janice also mentioned the expectations concerning the author of the book we traditionally refer to as the book of John. Might have been their misunderstanding of expressions like:
    (John 11:26) . . and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all.. . .
    (John 8:51)  Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.
    (Judge* 19 18-25)  Millions now living will never die.
    *I half-expected that someone might bring up those verses in defense of the "Millions" campaign, even if they were not related to the original content of the campaign.
    But my point again was that we have nothing to fear from honesty about our past teachings. Just being humble and admitting what happened would take some of the "sting" and defensiveness out the equation whenever someone made the accusation.
    We often seem to treat our history as so sacrosanct, that we think we can't be completely honest and open about it. I find this to be quite different from the way, for example, that the Bible treats the history of the first Kings, Saul, David, Solomon, the crisis resulting in the split between Israel and Judah, the ups and downs along the way. We don't say that Saul or David or Solomon were not "anointed" because of the errors and even atrocities they committed. Some of their errors were due to the times they lived in and the influences around them, and some were completely inexcusable from any perspective. But the Bible is honest about it, and we appreciate the humility. And it doesn't change a thing about God's love for them, and his ability to get his work accomplished.
  24. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to JW Insider in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    LOL!
    Best answer I've ever seen to this question.
    My father, originally from Chicago, has a photograph of the sign mentioned in the following experience. They didn't want it for the Proclaimer's book but it had been mentioned in the 1975 Yearbook.
    *** yb75 p. 127 Part 2—United States of America ***
    Recalling the effect of the “Millions Campaign,” Rufus Chappell writes: “We had offered the publication Millions Now Living Will Never Die in and around Zion [Illinois] and the results were of interest. I remember a large, flashing electric sign over the Waukegan Dry Cleaners building on North Sheridan Road about five miles from Zion, which said, ‘We Dye for the Millions Now Living Who Will Never Die.’ This was a very popular subject at that time, and many people had questioned the phrase and learned the truth from this publication.”
    We are all loathe to call the slogan a false prophecy. But that is my point. If someone else had said it, I think it would definitely be one. And, of course, we're only focusing on the slogan itself here. If we were to look at the set of teachings that made up the talks and the publications behind the slogan, we would find dozens of "false teachings" and "false prophecies." It's just that we can't use the term "false prophecy" or even "false teaching" when referring to our past teachings and predictions that turned out not to be true.
    Still, we have no problem finding quotes from the older publications that spoke of Russell and even Rutherford as "prophets" in this era. But is it the course of humility or a course of pride to speak of the false teachings of others, but never admit that we could have been guilty of a "false" teaching or a "false" prophecy? I know it's OK to say that a teaching or prediction was "mistaken," or that it was a "old light," or a previous teaching before the "light got brighter," or that it was "the right thing expected at the wrong time" or the "wrong thing expected at the right time." We might even say that it was "untrue." But, for many decades now, we can never bring ourselves to admit that we were teaching a "false" teaching.  We are still quick to pin that label on others though:
    *** g81 12/8 p. 14 Do You Recognize the Meaning of What You See? ***
    Political leaders often end up being “false prophets” unable to fulfill their promises. Of course, not every ruler turns out to be a “Hitler,” whose promised “thousand-year reich” proved to be a disastrous 12 years of misrule. The danger that one will be a “false prophet” increases, however, in direct proportion to their number. And that number is increasing—rapidly.
    A very prominent political “prophet” of our present century was the League of Nations, formed in 1919. It foretold a world of lasting peace. But World War II unceremoniously dumped it into a pit of inactivity. It was replaced in 1945 by the United Nations organization, which doubtless is trying to prevent the outbreak of an atomic World War III. But has it truly ‘maintained international peace and security,’ as its charter prophesied?
    It's curious too that it was in 1919 that the Watchtower was one of first organizations to speak about the League of Nations as if it was a political expression of the kingdom of God on earth. When we changed our view on that, just a few months later, we spoke of other religions as being guilty as false prophets for having held that same view.
     
  25. Upvote
    JaniceM reacted to Evacuated in Did the MILLIONS Campaign Just Become a False Prophecy?   
    It is pretty clear that it is impossible for millions who were living in 1925 and prior to never die as they are likely already ...dead!
    But you know, I am loathe to term the famous slogan "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" as a false prophecy similar to something like "infants who die will be safe in the arms of Jesus and will spend eternity with Him in heaven." This is the sort of thing used by some religious groups to comfort those bereaved of infants. Or how about "Put the Church Behind Pershing. To win this war the boys at the front need strength of spirit " used by the American Bible Society to fund-raise for Bible distribution to soldiers during WW1?
    Intrinsically,"Millions Now Living Will Never Die" is a true statement. What was wrong about it was the timing and the context of it's application.
    To borrow Paul's illustration, Christians are likened to runners in a race. Well, most of us have seen a false start haven't we? The tension and excitement of the moment can carry away even the most seasoned athletes on occasion. And the alertness and eagerness of sincere Christians to the return of Christ has given rise to false alarms in modern times, even as it did amongst the disciples. The good thing about a Christian "jumping the gun" is that they can always get back in the race.
    As a rallying cry, the Millions slogan certainly captured the attention of many. Preaching in the 70's, I still met people who had attended one of these lectures by Judge Rutherford. Many may have dropped out with expectation unfulfilled, but any who were alerted to the Bible's message by the Millions campaign, and who are still active Jehovah's witnesses, are unlikely to have regretted that decision although their number would only be a fraction of the "Millions" expected at the time.
    Would it have been better to use a slogan like "Billions Now Living Will Die For Ever" ? Attention grabbing maybe, but I think I prefer the original.
    Someone said "False starts may be considered illegal, but in life, I’d rather have a false start than no start at all." 


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