Witness

Hi Melinda, You must be referring to God with this scripture and not Christ, which I totally agree with, but may want to consider a few other translations of 1 Tim 6:15,16 “In the presence of God, who gives life to all, and of Christ Jesus, who gave a good confession before Pontius Pilate, I charge you 14 to keep the command without fault or failure until the appearing of our LordJesus Christ. 15 God will bring this about in His own time. He is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords, 16 the only One who has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; no one has seen or can see Him, to Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.” Holman 3 In the presence of God, who gives life to all, and of Christ Jesus, who gave a good confession before Pontius Pilate, I charge you 14 to keep the command without fault or failure until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 God will bring this about in His own time. He is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings, and the Lord of lords, 16 the only One who has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; no one has seen or can see Him, to Him be honor and eternal might. Amen. NKJV Watchtower’s Kingdom Interlinear: “In the sight of God who preserves all things alive, and of Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders that you observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ. This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show you in its own appointed time, [he]The King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. To him be the honor and might everlasting. Amen.” Does it seem clearer now that the one in unapproachable light is God, and not Christ? Although the Watchtower teaches that this is Christ – (Jesus Christ “dwells in unapproachable light” (1Ti 6:16): it-2 254”), this cannot be true since men have most certainly seen him. Yes, Christ is King of Kings, Lord of lords according to Rev 17:14, a title given him by his Father who is the sovereign King. Jer 10:10; Ps 145:1 As you say, “However, as to seeing Jehovah, it is not possible to do so and live. (Exodus 33:20) But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.” This is because of his “unapproachable light” and it gives credence to 1 Tim 6:16. After Moses came down from the mountain, even the light that shone from the “skin of his face” had to be veiled from the children of Israel. Your reference to John 14:19 bears a further look also. Why is it that the world no longer “see” Christ? Verses 16,17 shows why: 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. “ If we avail ourselves, we are able to spiritually “see” Christ now through the blessing of Holy Spirit residing in us. Verses 23,24: “Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me”. “Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!] For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:20,21 Jesus has inherited what Adam lost, the earth and all creation in it. This “meek” man was the promised seed of Gal 3:16. 1 Cor 15:45,47 He is the first one to fulfill Ps 37:11 and “inherit the earth”. Ps 2:8; Heb 1:2; Eph 1:10,20,21; Matt 28:18; 1 Cor 15:28; Col 1:16 He replaced the original human first born son of God; his human life was received through “Sarah”, mother covenant. Gen 17:7; Heb 5:5 This was the promise by God to Abraham fulfilled by Christ, and thereafter with his faithful Chosen, sealed ones. Gen 28:13,14; Rom 4:13; Gal 3:16; Gal 3:29,26. If Christ has successfully inherited what Adam lost, why would Christ not be on the earth to enjoy it, as well as the 144,000, his Bride, who through this union bring forth more “seed”? The firstborn sons of God and Christ (firstfruits) inherit a double portion, the world to come, AND access to the heavens. Isa 61:7; Rom 8:19,18; Heb 2:5,16; Ps 45:16; 1 Pet 3:18; Rom 6:5; 1 Cor 15:50,53; Rev 22:4; Acts 1:3 The 144,000 are a “new creation” which allows these ones to reside on the earth as well as in heaven. Jesus showed this was possible upon his resurrection when appearing to the disciples in flesh, then ascending to heaven in spirit. Rev 5:9,10 – “ And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.” The Bride and Christ are joined together in the spirit of God, not alienated from their inheritance. “who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” Acts 1:11 “and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.” Acts 3:20,21 Through the Bride and Christ, all faithful mankind will “inherit the earth”, the rest of Abraham’s seed. Psalm37:11,29 You have sited Rev 21:3-5, what about Rev 21:2? “Then I, John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband” Would the “Bride’s” husband leave her in the heavens as she “comes down out of heaven”, or not be there once she ‘came down from heaven’? They are joined as one! Since these children of God are a new creation (2 Cor 5:17)..human and angel (1 Cor 15:44; Heb 8:5; 1 Cor 3:16; Ezek 41:18,19)…born naturally as flesh, and "born again" as spirit (John 3:5; 1 Cor 15:50; Rev 21:17), they will easily inhabit both the earth as well as the spiritual realm along with Christ. And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” John 1:51 (see Gen 28:12) In this end time, “Michael” (Who is like God?), who is Jesus, “stands up” for his people to re-establish God’s sovereignty and His Kingdom purpose - His Temple and Holy City as supreme. We must allow Christ to “show” himself to us (John 14:21; Rev 2:7,17,28), by giving us who he is (John 14:6)... which are: - The hidden manna - John 6:49-50... - The morning star – Rev 22:16; 2:28; 2 Pet 1:19; 1 John 3:2; Rom 8:9... - The tree of life - Rev 2:7; John 6:63… Through pure teaching of “fruit” – Luke 6:43,45 If we don’t allow this, we will not see or hear, even after others do understand. Rev 3:7,8; 4:1; Luke 24:45 Now is the time to “make straight the way for the Lord” John 1:23; for truly, Who is Like God? No one! No organization, nothing, which is the call pronounced by him through his “cloud of witnesses”. Matt 26:64 Yet, the Watchtower continually compares itself to God. “Are we going to remain loyal to Jehovah and his organization?” w02 4/1 pp. 25-3 “To whom will you liken Me, and make Me equal And compare Me, that we should be alike?” Isa 46:5 I hope you consider the fruit from your teachers. We were admonished by the organization to be like the “Beroeans”. Should that attention to what is truth ever come to an end? No. Watchtower: When they were first told about the good news of the Kingdom, the Beroeans accepted what they heard, but not simply because they wanted it to be true. Rather, they carefully examined the Scriptures “to see whether these things were so.” (Acts 17:11) In other words, the Beroeans compared the good news that they heard with what the Scriptures say. Wt 10/2014 “God’s Kingdom, What Will it Mean For You?” Thinking that Christ, as the second Adam, is to remain in the heavenly realm, when Adam, if he had never sinned would have always resided on the earth, is one of many lies from the Watchtower. The “unveiling” of these lies was predicted for the end. “At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book." Dan 12:1 "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Rev 12:7-9 This is the Great Tribulation, “the time of trouble”. The battle is not found in Satan’s literal world, but in each heart’s acceptance of truth over lies. Eph 6:12; Matt 16:2,3 2 Cor 3:12-17 - Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, [and away from man’s doctrine] the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. You must ask yourself why the Watchtower removes Christ from the sheep covertly, slyly through such teachings. As Shiwii has said, it is taught that only the 144,000 have Christ as their mediator. This is a lie; all are to come to Christ, the anointed ones as well as all sheep. He is our life source, not an earthly management that is touted as “God approved”. “An astonishing and horrible thing Has been committed in the land: The prophets prophesy falsely, And the priests rule by their own power; And My people love to have it so. But what will you do in the end?” Jer 5:30,31

*** w50 6/15 p. 186 par. 38 A Victory Dedicated to Jehovah’s Honor *** "There is this to remember concerning organizations generally. When young and growing, fighting their way up, zeal is strong and evangelistic; but when they have won their place and become strong and wealthy and respected they often lose their virile strength and become lax, fat, sluggish, and point with pride to their size, and put their directives above God’s commands. That has happened to the organizations of the big and prosperous, orthodox churches of Christendom. The organization is served and worshiped instead of the one it claims to represent, namely Jehovah God. But this snare will never catch Jehovah’s cleansed people today ... " Thank you Ann, for bringing this quote to our attention. If only everyone in the organization could see the truth in those words and how far from them the organization has strayed today. “Therefore, son of man, speak to the house of Israel, and say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “In this too your fathers have blasphemed Me, by being unfaithful to Me. When I brought them into the land concerning which I had raised My hand in an oath to give them, and they saw all the high hills and all the thick trees, there they offered their sacrifices and provoked Me with their offerings. There they also sent up their sweet aroma and poured out their drink offerings. Then I said to them, ‘What is this high place to which you go?’ So its name is called Bamah to this day.”’ Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Are you defiling yourselves in the manner of your fathers, and committing harlotry according to their abominations? For when you offer your gifts and make your sons pass through the fire, you defile yourselves with all your idols, even to this day. So shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live,” says the Lord God, “I will not be inquired of by you. What you have in your mind shall never be, when you say, ‘We will be like the Gentiles, like the families in other countries, serving wood and stone.’ “As I live,” says the Lord God, “surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you,” says the Lord God. “I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord. Ezek 20:27-38 “…and make your sons pass through fire” We know fire can be used literally by God as well as symbolically through God's spirit and His truthful words as in Jer 23:29; Heb 12:29; Ps 29:7; Rev 4:5; Deut 4:24; Ex 24:17 Satan also has the power to use literal fire to destroy, as in Job 1:16, as well as symbolic “fire” which also brings destruction through false teachings and condemnation upon the righteous, (in the manner of disfellowshipping those who will not accept false teachings). Job 2:11; 4:1,7,17; 5:1,2,; 8:1,3,4,6 11;1,3-5,14,15,20; Ezek 22:9; Ps 35:15; Jer 6:28; 2 Pet 2:3; 1 Cor 4:13; John 16:2; Isa 66:5 God’s symbolic “fire” destroys the lies and idolatry of the false prophets. Hosea 6:5; Matt 24:51,50; 2 Cor 10:4; 6:7; Jer 1:10; 1 Tim 6:12; Matt 7:19; 13:30; 2 Thess 1:8; 1 Cor 3:13,15; Rev 8:5-8; Luke 3:17; Rev 14:16

Should read, "they have diverted worship to the organization; storing up treasures on earth....(Matt 6:20)

Nehemiah was restoring the walls of the city of Jerusalem; prophetically, Chapter 2 depicts the situation today concerning anointed ones under oppression in the organization. New Jerusalem’s walls need to be restored. The anointed under the New Covenant has been "trampled" "for seven times"...she lies in ruins. Dan 9:24,25; 8:13,14; Rev 11:2; Luke 21:24,25,17-19 as prophetically depicted through this chapter. The symbolic “wall” today has been breached by deceptive doctrines and false authority, allowing the “Temple” to be trampled. Matt 21:33; Neh 1:3; 2:17; 1 Cor 3:16; 1 Pet 2:5; Eph 2:21,22; Isa 1:4,5; Dan 9:27; Mark 13:14 New Jerusalem or Mt Zion is not the Watchtower, but it is the mother covenant established by the blood of Christ. The “firstfruits”, anointed ones are the first to be ransomed under this New Covenant. Rev 20:6; James 1:18; Rev 14:4 Once the Bride unites with her husband, the successive seed are those who receive life through the woman/sealed Bride of Christ. Rev 22:17; John 7:38; Matt 10:40,41; John 6:63; Phil 2:16 "But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." Gal 4:26 Matt 24:43 was a parable to “keep on the watch” for the coming of the Son of Man. Earlier in this chapter, notice: “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it! 24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Take note: I have told you in advance. 26 So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’ don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it." These false messiahs, or “christs” are within the organization. They have diverted worship due God to the organization; storing up treasures in heaven, “protecting” its earthly interests in the name of God. "For the idols speak falsehood, and the diviners see illusions; they relate empty dreams and offer empty comfort. Therefore the people wander like sheep; they suffer affliction because there is no shepherd." Zech 10:2 Isa 2:22 - "Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?" "For in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah boarded the ark. 39 They didn’t know until the flood came and swept them all away. So this is the way the coming of the Son of Man will be: 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore be alert, since you don’t know what day your Lord is coming." Matt 24:38-42 "I will whistle and gather them because I have redeemed them; they will be as numerous as they once were. 9 Though I sow them among the nations, they will remember Me in the distant lands; they and their children will live and return." Zech 10:8,9; Isa 1:27,28; Rev 18:4-8 In order for the true Temple to be restored as well as New Jerusalem's walls, the anointed who are under this mother covenant of “Jerusalem above” must respond to this “whistle” and “come out of her”, lest they share in her sins and “buy” refinement from Christ. Rev 18:4 Zech 10:6,7; Isa 1:16 “This is why you also must be ready, because the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” Matt 24:44 Zech 9:9-11 I am startled by the situation Nicole presents in her question. If the “sheep” are used to protect the material interests of a massive organization, and not just any organization, but one that demands obedience on all levels, in the name of God, certainly they “suffer affliction” under the rule of wayward shepherds. When we give our identity to an organization that ascribes itself as Salvation, whatever we do to support it spiritually, physically, or emotionally or is an act of idolatry. Idolatry seeps through every aspect of the organization. The Watchtower quotes substantiate its own idolatrous image. Rev 13:15

Eoin, I am not asking you to change your opinion or to "filibuster". "No more than when David and Samuel the seer assigned Levites to temple guard duty, or when Nehemiah assigned guards during the Jerusalem wall-rebuilding program. 1 Chron. 9:24; Neh. 4:22-23. (comp Acts 4:1). This alone is a weak answer to Nicole's question and infers you believe the existence of kingdom halls as part of the organization are blessed by God in the same manner as the early Temple. I don't believe this. If my opinion on why you made such a comment is wrong, then I am not sure why you used such a reference. Nicole is right to question this; it is my opinion that any effort to secure an earthly place of worship connected to an organization that touts to be one's only path to salvation, is idolatry.

According to the bible, I believe there is full evidence that it is idolatry, Nicole. The Kingdom Halls are not “God’s House”. There seems to be a comparison made here in a comment of God’s Temple arrangement to kingdom halls. We now worship in the spirit and the truth, not in any earthly building. From the Watchtower: The Jewish temple was a tangible structure at a specific geographic location. But spirit and truth are not material, nor are they limited to any physical place. Thus, Jesus was explaining that true Christian worship would not be centered in or dependent on any material structure or physical location, whether Mount Gerizim, the temple in Jerusalem, or any other sacred place. W pg 16 #2 It was the early tabernacle that God told Moses to make, yet it was man’s idea to build a temple without consulting God. To Nathan he said, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts: “I took you from the sheepfold, from following the sheep, to be ruler over My people Israel. And I have been with you wherever you have gone, and have cut off all your enemies from before you, and have made you a name like the name of the great men who are on the earth. Moreover I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own and move no more; nor shall the sons of wickedness oppress them anymore, as previously, since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel. Also I will subdue all your enemies. Furthermore I tell you that the Lord will build you a house. And it shall be, when your days are fulfilled, when you must go to be with your fathers, that I will set up your seed after you, who will be of your sons; and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build Me a house, and I will establish his throne forever. I will be his Father, and he shall be My son; and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him who was before you. And I will establish him in My house and in My kingdom forever; and his throne shall be established forever.” ’ ”According to all these words and according to all this vision, so Nathan spoke to David." 1 Chron 17:3-15 We know this prophetically speaks of Jesus. Heb 1:5,8 It certainly was not fulfilled in Solomon who proved unfaithful at the end of his life. Matt 12:42; 1 Kings 11:1-11 The eternal House or Temple that Jesus was to build, was his chosen priesthood. 1 Cor 3:9,16,17; Eph 2:20-22; John 2:21; 1 Cor 12:27; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 6:19,20 Matt 12:6 “But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here!” God “house” is of his creation and his Way: Christ the cornerstone, the 12 foundation stones, and the 144,000 living stones of Christ’s Priesthood. Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 2:5 Under the New Covenant, the new pattern of worship through Christ who is Truth, our obligation to an earthly building is only by the will of man. By slaving toward its upkeep our “worship” is split and idolatry takes hold. The organization has become "the desire of the flesh and the desire of the eyes and the showy display of one's means of life" by accrediting it as our source of salvation or life; when it truthfully has its origin at the hands of men, thus from the world. What men make on earth, fades. Only what God makes, lasts. 1 John 2:16 “Set your minds on what is above, not on what is on the earth.” Col 3:2 “Unless the Lord builds a house, its builders labor over it in vain; unless the Lord watches over a city, the watchman stays alert in vain.” Ps 127:1 “But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal.” Matt 6:20 “In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and this kingdom will not be left to another people. It will crush all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself endure forever.” Dan 2:44 “Then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when He abolishes all rule and all authority and power.” 1 Cor 15:24 “Look, I have given you the authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy; nothing will ever harm you.” Luke 10:19 “Every island fled, and the mountains disappeared.“ Rev 16:20 “until the Ancient of Days arrived and a judgment was given in favor of the holy ones of the Most High, for the time had come, and the holy ones took possession of the kingdom.” Dan 7:22 Only what men do according to God’s will, is stored in heaven. The rest is a “commerce” of futility, all the effort put into maintaining, building, expanding, consumes our dedication that belongs solely to God and Christ. The preaching work is done through Holy Spirit acting within each one us who makes it one's desire of the heart, when in Christ. Zech 4:6 “And the world with its lust is passing away, but the one who does God’s will remains forever.” 1 John 2:17 If we unconsciously transfer what we intend to do for God, into doing it for a visible organization; we have succumbed to the prophesied idolatry. Rev 13:16,8 “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen.” Rom 1:25 The only treasures worth guarding and storing up for ourselves are those in heaven. “In truth, the Lord God will help Me; who will condemn Me? Indeed, all of them will wear out like a garment; a moth will devour them.” Isa 50:9 Job 13:28; James 5:3; Eze 24:6,11-13; Luke 12:39 Before Stephen was stoned, his words revealed the desire of men through history to worship and attend to what they must see or have made: “Our ancestors had the tabernacle of the testimony in the wilderness, just as He who spoke to Moses commanded him to make it according to the pattern he had seen. Our ancestors in turn received it and with Joshua brought it in when they dispossessed the nations that God drove out before our fathers, until the days of David. He found favor in God’s sight and asked that he might provide a dwelling place for the God[a] of Jacob. But it was Solomon who built Him a house. However, the Most High does not dwell in sanctuaries made with hands, as the prophet says: Heaven is My throne, and earth My footstool. What sort of house will you build for Me? says the Lord, or what is My resting place? Did not My hand make all these things? “You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are always resisting the Holy Spirit; as your ancestors did, so do you. Acts 7:44-51 According to scriptures, no one can tell us we must worship through an organization, or attend a kingdom hall in order to receive God’s mercy, as the Watchtower itself makes clear: “As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry – be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization.” WT 90 11/1 p. 26 “Ask yourself now, did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, join any church or organization in his day? No, God does not require us to do that; but he requires us to worship him…We have the Bible to show us the right way. Certainly it is not necessary for a person to become a member of a church to gain everlasting life.” WT ‘53/3/1 p. 143

Hello Eoin Joyce, I do believe there are indeed direct manifestations of the anointing of Holy Spirit today – ask any anointed one and they will tell you. It is interesting that elders are considered appointed by holy spirit through scriptural guidance outlined by Paul, and thus comes this blessing or appointing by holy spirit. This is a stretch of the imagination, I believe, when compared to an anointing, the outpouring of Holy Spirit on an individual by God himself. Titus 1:5 clearly shows this to be an appointment made by men. Paul was following a common practice, a Jewish tradition and not the making of appointments through the laying on of hands which would be considered an anointing. Within the Body of Christ, God’s Temple administration, we can find symbolic designation of elders and without a doubt, these ones are chosen by God. Rev 4:4,10; 5:8,14;7:11;11:16;19:4; Acts 2:17 Elders appointed by men have expectations to meet regarding the interests of the organization. God, who sees the heart, anoints ones of his choosing to feed his sheep truth in Christ. This is their sole purpose. How is it then, that elders have usurped this role of God’s chosen ones and assume it is their job to feed the sheep? 1 Cor 12:7-31;6:2 Instead of “take the lead” which is expected by elders, God has given the lead to his faithful anointed ones. Acts 20:28; 1 Cor 12:18 The elder arrangement does not in any way reflect even what Paul had directed. While he himself was building up the Body of Christ, the elder arrangement today has expropriated the Body and created a counterfeit “priesthood”. These may seem like harsh words, but it is those chosen ones – the Temple – who must be recognized as God’s priesthood to serve not only God, but the sheep. 2 Chron 23:6; Num 3:10; 1 Cor 3:16,16 Both Saul and David were anointed by Holy Spirit, and their outcome cannot be compared with men appointed by men. Yes, there are chosen ones who fall gravely short, and are dealt with by God himself, since their devotion is strictly to God and they must hold to the same standard as Jesus. John 7:18; Rev 14:5; 2 Cor 3:5 Since an elder body is to be obeyed, why would those appointed by God be “in subjection” to men? How are the following scriptures adhered to if an elder body is given more acknowledgment than God’s own anointed ones? Shouldn’t we trust God’s provision for spiritual sustenance? Would it not be rejecting Christ and his Temple by brushing aside his own chosen priesthood? “For the lips of a priest ought to preserve knowledge, because he is the messenger of the Lord Almighty and people seek instruction from his mouth.” Mal 2:7 “As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for. 1 Pet 2:7,8 “Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward. If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.” Mark 9:41,42 Whoever receives one child like this in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me does not receive me, but Him who sent Me. Mark 9:37 “The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Feed my sheep” John 21:17

I agree Shiwii, and knowing that the scriptures give credence to our praying to Jesus, we can then freely give him that honor, as well as worship, that he deserves. I believe by withdrawing ourselves from this privilege to pray to not only the Father, but his Son also, we cannot truly comprehend the glory and honor of the Anointed One. "All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." 1 John 1:3-5

You know, I’ve thought a lot about the substance of not only your question, Carmen, but also your answer, Shiwiii. Why would Jesus, who washed the feet of his disciples be so untouchable to all of us once ascending to heaven? He appeared to the disciples after his resurrection, eating with them and teaching, so why would this closeness have to end with his resurrection? “Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going back to God, rose from supper. He laid aside his outer garments, and taking a towel, tied it around his waist. Then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel that was wrapped around him. "When he had washed their feet and put on his outer garments and resumed his place, he said to them, “Do you understand what I have done to you? You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am. Truly, truly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.” John 13:3-5,12,13,16 Will we see Christ again, even speak to him? And can we pray to him today? “but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.” And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,“Let all God's angels worship him.” Heb 1:2,6 It’s pretty clear here that Jesus will return to earth and with him the Bride – 144,000. John 1:51 - And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.” If we look at Heb 1:6 again, worshipping him are the same angels ascending and descending on the Son of Man – his Bride (144,000). Angels are messengers, the chosen are the priesthood and messengers as well, according to Mal 2:7 (Rev 1:20) 1 Pet 2:5 The restoration of the earth and mankind connect in their meaning with Ps 37:11,29 and Acts 3:20,21 which says: “ that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago." Acts 3:20,21 If Jesus was seen “in the flesh” after his resurrection, there is no reason why he wouldn’t be seen again in such a manner. 1 Cor 15:6 He is the firstborn of the “new creation”, both spirit and flesh with the 144,000 to follow in suit. The 144,000 are assured by God, that they will obtain the same "likeness" as the resurrected Christ. Rom 6:5 (John 1:14; Col 2:9; 1:19) Eph 2:21,22 - " in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." God is within Christ and within the 144,000. This is why Christ said, “nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” Luke 17:21 "And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." Rev 21:2 From that “holy city”which is composed of the Bride and her Husband, Jesus, and where God dwells within them, comes sustenance provided through Christ and through the 144,000 for mankind on earth. They are present on the earth as “New Jerusalem”. “ through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.” Rev 22:2 But can we pray to Jesus now? I have thought long and hard about this wondering why it couldn’t be. The Watchtower says no, but as far as I know there is no scriptural validation to this doctrine. What I have found is interesting. We have this example that Paul prayed to Jesus: “ So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” To verify that the one speaking to him is Christ, it goes on to say: “Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.” 2 Cor 12:7-10 We also find in many translations that John 14:12-14 reads similar to this: “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.” Is inserting "me" here accurate? The RNWT translates verse 13,14 as: “Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. “ Now, going to the Watchtower Kingdom Greek Interlinear we find that John 14:14 word for word reads: “if ever anything you should ask ME in the name of me this I shall do”. In the translation from Greek to English they have removed the word “me” after “ask”. Not only is Paul's example proof that we can pray to Jesus, but it is clear that we can ask Christ in prayer for guidance through this Greek translation put out by the Watchtower itself. “Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.” John 16:24 How can we respond to Christ’s call of “come to me” if we cannot speak to him? Matt 11:28; Luke 18:16 John 5:39,40 – “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.” If we strive to have an intimate relationship with God, would this not include a similar relationship with his Son who pleads for us to come to him? Isn’t this what God wants us to do? Matt 17:5

Hi Janice, Got your walking shoes on? Your words, “Turning away from a spiritual paradise would be like a dog going back to its vomit.” “From my view, I have seen a lot of neglect, hurt feelings and some major problems needing major corrections,” Both these statements seem contradictory to me. Even though there are conflicting teachings, unfulfilled end time dates, child abuse cases gone to court, evidence brought out by the organization itself that faith in anything like it is idolatry (still, identity to it is required), you still believe the organization is a spiritual paradise? How do you figure? Or perhaps I need more understanding of your viewpoint. I believe this view of the organization as a spiritual paradise is dangerous ground. Considering that there are major problems, but allegiance to it must persist, each heart is placed in jeopardy. Why should one tolerate major problems when we each are responsible for sole devotion to and in our service to God and Jesus? “Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.” Rom 14:10-12 From the Watchtower: "We find refuge today in the spiritual security enjoyed by God’s people as a whole." "Through “the faithful and discreet slave” and elders in the congregation, we are alerted to trends in the world that could endanger that security." (w11 1/15 pp. 3-7) If we settle in under such a canopy of what man considers a spiritual paradise, not questioning strange teachings or another one’s hurt feelings, what could happen? “For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.” 1 Thess 5:2-4 "They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace". Jer 8:11 “Spiritual paradise” can only be found within us. "And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." Phil 4:7 Should we hand over our spirituality to men who from one mouth teach a good and bad fruit? Their track record is faulty and cannot compare with Moses, Abraham, or the prophets of old who led people correctly. If our rulers are misleading and causing confusion how can they be blessed with Holy Spirit? Your words, “I don't see where a person can be disfellowshipped for quoting the Bible.” I should clarify how this happens. If I was to spread the words I earlier stated to my fellow JWs after speaking to elders about such a biblical based belief, disfellowshipping ensues, and it happens every day. Now, if I were to deny scriptural admonition to preach this new found enlightenment for fear of being shunned and then just walk away, I may be left alone and could continue in good standing with the congregation. But, of course, this goes against scripture to remain silent. "Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name." Heb 13:15 "so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ." 1 Pet 1:7. The report given in Rom 10:22-21 is concerning this salvation given us by God through Jesus. "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom 10:9 We cannot preach this in the organization and avoid disfellowshipping, since this is a rejection of the image of the organization as a source of salvation. Rev 13:15 Disfellowshipping is a cutting off, a silencing and a depiction of one viewed as spiritually "dead". “I see no urgency or crisis as for as those anointed are concerned. They are in God's hands to put in whatever rightful position he desires, not mine” Was the institution of the early temple ignored before Jesus came? The early tabernacle held God’s presence. Ex 40:36-38. Later the temple replaced the tabernacle as representation of God’s presence among his people. 2 Chron. 7:16; Ezek. 37:26-28 The newly created Temple, Christ's Body, through the New Covenant exists within the anointed ones. “We heard him say, ‘I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and in three days I will build another, not made with hands.’” Mark 14:58 If we see a spiritual desecration of this “Temple”; an ignorance to its meaning as well as its spiritual understanding, we turn our back on Christ who is “building” it. 1 Pet 2:5; Rev 5:10 It’s original use and meaning was not brushed aside under the Mosaic Covenant, why would it be today under Christ? The anointed one’s sacrifices offered are not animals as the Mosaic Law required, but it is their own lives used to “bear witness”. Rev 20:4 God resides in spirit within these “living stones”. (2 Cor 6:16; Zeph 3:16-20) They make God’s name known. “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. John 17:6 (John 14:20) If anyone lords it over God’s spiritual Temple by their own authority, this is an “abomination”. The gift offerings expected by God and to be given to the people by these “priests” has ceased under elder rule. Rom 15:16; 1 Tim 4:16; 2 Pet 1:8; Col 1:10 I believe the opinion you hold (and it is your right) has become the opinion of the anointed ones who lounge within a supposed “spiritual paradise” allowing others to rule over them. “ So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.” “Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.” Col 2:16-23 The “worship of angels” is the abnormal admiration given anointed ones – the GB – over the whole of the Body of Christ. Angels are God's messengers, God's messengers are also his "priests". (Mal 2:7) If the Body is to remain inseparable and to grow through its adherence to each other, superiority and ruling over other members of this Body shows that evidence of those lording it over their own body members as disconnected with the Head, who is Christ. Mark 10:42 “so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.” 1 Cor 12:25,26 This is hardly the case when the “Temple” is treated as such: Anointed Christians do not feel that they should spend time only with other anointed ones, as if they were members of a club. They do not try to find other anointed ones so that they can talk about being anointed or meet in groups to study the Bible. (Galatians 1:15-17) The congregation would not be united if anointed ones did this. They would be working against the holy spirit, which helps God’s people to have peace and unity. W 16/1 pp. 20-26 This truly is blaspheming God’s name and suffocating the Body of Christ. The uniting of the congregation is through the unification of the Body and allows Holy Spirit to flow to the advantage of everyone. 1 Cor 2:13 The words of the WT are in severe contradiction to scripture and the building up of the Temple. “For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.” 1 Cor 3:9-11 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Cor 3:17 If God calls something holy and it is for the life-giving benefit of all and through Christ, should it not be recognized as the primary source of Holy Spirit? Little relevance given this Temple is no relevance given Christ; and he, as well as God’s administration become lower in authority than man himself. This is the making of a mockery of the arm of God. Isa 59:1

I inserted the above from your last post, which I could'n't quote properly for some reason. I would beg to go 6, but I think I’ve already been there J It is pretty clear to me that you feel the organization has God’s blessing because of the accomplishment of what you call, the “preaching work”. Although, remembering the quotes I had given earlier about serving God through such a thing, we find it is not needed. As far as preaching, we also find many who do it and I am not saying they are correct. We could go on about the Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Pentecostals, Gideon’s International, Catholic Church….all preaching about a Kingdom to come, as well as Jesus, and adding up to billions of members. You said, “Although determined to dedicate myself to what I knew was the truth” What is the truth to you? Is it Christ, 1914, the organization…? You said, ”With the Christians, either Jesus is Michael or the 'Watchtower made it up.' 'If they lied about this, what else are they lying about?” Considering the opposite meanings that I have presented you from the Watchtower, I should ask you, what else are they lying about? You said, “Many do preach or prophesy in Jesus' name which is good, but they should also be following in the footsteps of Christ, obeying his commandments. To not do so would be an act of disobedience and lawlessness.” There you go; you hit the nail on the head. This is what makes the organization different from any other. Inside are anointed ones, but have you ever wondered why this is so? It has everything to do with Matt 7:21-34 that you quoted. As established from the quotes I have listed from the Watchtower itself, giving one’s obedience to an organization is idolatry. It has been established as fact by the organization itself. Yet, they continue to mislead, causing one to question just what is right but following the majority without question. The anointed ones must follow in Christ’s footsteps. What does this entail? They must desire to be found “clean” by God. Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Cor 7:1 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 2 Pet 3:14 If there is any wayward teaching accepted, “double-talk”, are they without spot and blameless? Can they practice idolatry and be viewed as blameless? Ps 12:2 If God’s arrangement of teaching through anointed ones is ignored, are they blameless? The priesthood, each and every anointed one, has to be cleansed in order to part of the Bride. Satan is their biggest enemy who seeks to destroy Christ’s seed. His deceptions have always been based on deceit and lies, confusion and false sense of security which the organization teaches it provides. Chosen stars can fall through temptation and a gift of power. Prov 16:5; Rom 11:18; 1 Cor 4:8; Rev 13:5; 13:15 “Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.” Heb 4:11 “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.” 1 John 2:19 “looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled” Heb 12:15 Wormwood is a “root of bitterness” - O you who turn justice to wormwood and cast down righteousness to the earth! Amos 5:7 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter. The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter. Rev 8:11 Water represents teachings in the bible, and while this particular water started as truth, it turned bitter and poisonous through lies by a fallen chosen “star”. God allows a deception to fall on his people as a time of refinement and discipline. Just as he allowed Satan to test Job, all who desire to truly follow in Christ’s footsteps are tested – by Satan, as Christ was tested by Satan on the mountain. Our “captivity” to impure teachings is allowed by the Father in the end times. If you were to approach the elders and say, “I believe the only way to serve God is through Christ, for he said ‘I am the way and the truth and the life’ and I believe this is the accurate way to God (Prov 14:12) and it’s the only way I’m going to get through the Great Tribulation (Luke21:36; Matt.24:24,25)….you are then following in Christ’s footsteps, and confessing Jesus before men. Matt 10:32 What follows is likely a disfellowshipping, a mark of “spiritual death”, as you turn your back on the organization and is a continuance on the continued path to Christ, bearing the same disgrace he bore. Rev 13:15 “They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God.” John 16:2 “Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured.” Heb 13:13 Who was it who persecuted Jesus, but his own people? Who persecutes and passes judgment on their own people but the organization? Which leads me back to your last scripture that Jesus aptly applied to the Pharisees and which can be applied to those in authority in the organization: “Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU. Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to extract the straw from your eye’; when, look! a rafter is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw from your brother’s eye." (Matt 7:1-5) The only way the “wise virgins” make it is because they listen to Christ! They responded to his call in repentance. “I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.” Rev 3:18 Those not producing fruit from a refined heart (Luke6:45,44), are lopped off the vine of Christ and cannot partake of the marriage feast. This is an ongoing subject, and there is more in your post that I would like to comment on, but I think I’ve hit the 2 mile mark again. I’ll be on the road for a few days. Thank you for replying even though you are quite busy.

You mean it is longer than “two miles”? J Matt 5:41 Your words, “There is a problem with outside views which I've had problems with, family, co-workers, neighbors etc., which caused me to stumble quite a bit, and it took me a long time to get back on my feet where I needed to be. “ Where is it that you feel you need to be in order to maintain your faith? I think the question for all of us is where do we seat our faith. Is it here? "Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" WT ‘81/11/15 p.212 Or is it here? This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12 Do you see what has happened? God has given us salvation simply through Christ only, and not through any other route, name, identity, organization. If we don’t accept this, we too, have rejected the cornerstone just as those early Jews did. 1 Cor 1:23 “For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.” 1 Pet 2:6-8 Your words “They also say nothing of the preaching work or kingdom which was the main focus of Jesus' message.” There are a few on here that preach Jesus’ message, but are not part of the organization. Would you consider them part of the “preaching work”? Preaching is always in truth, - Jesus - and in imitation of the early apostles who focused their preaching on Jesus' glory as well as the Father'; and nothing else, be it doctrine of men that changes, or an organization viewed as pertinent to our identity. It is important to recognize the “small stuff” that can threaten one’s faith, by insistence on abiding by the “small stuff”. Jesus made a point in bringing out the Pharisees’ deliberate attention to detail and how dangerous it can be. Perhaps you don’t sweat the small stuff, but it can corrode your brother or sister’s faith, even yours; if we love one another we are concerned for the faith of each one of us. “Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others.” Matt 23:1-7, 8-36 Your words “Lastly, I'm not sure what the solution would be to these statements below, whether the anointed ones should commence the operations of the society or not.” We do all receive Holy Spirit if God allows it to happen through our own supplications in harmony with his will. With the anointed ones, the light of Christ is to shine from within them. This light is given to these children of God in order to bring all mankind who are willing, also to the light – they, in turn, become children of God in God’s Kingdom. “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. Matt 5:14,15 In order for the Body of Christ to shine as illuminators, it has to be recognized, which is impossible through suppression in the organization. Phil 2:15 (stars in Christ's right hand - Dan 12:3) You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. John 15:16 Through the ignorance of this light given anointed who are required to let it shine, it is viewed by the organization with the same misunderstanding as Jesus’ light, “The Light shines in the darkness, and darkness did not comprehend it” John 1:5 Their light is poured into the heart by Holy Spirit in a unique way; when one works in harmony with God in recognizing this light, they receive comprehension of love and Christ’s laws, which are then manifested within these anointed ones - and they are to shine as stars. 1 Cor 14:41; Matt 5:16 By abolishing their own servitude as priests and allowing others to serve, the organization has set up an abomination, according to God. “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand) Matt 24:15 The holy place is God’s Temple arrangement – the Body of Christ. This is a spiritual fulfillment within and among God’s own people. It has always been seen that abominations are found within his own people. It has also always occurred that holy ones can choose to resist this blessing of Holy Spirit through their own arrogance and out of their lack of fear toward God. Deut 13:12-15; Luke 23:40; Rom 3:10-18; 2 Cor 11:13-15; 1 Tim 4:16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.” Matt 24:16 “Judea” is the location of Israel, spiritual “Israel” today are the chosen ones. Rom 11:26 If we recognize this oppression, we are to flee, spiritually and physically to the heavenly mountain, Zion – to God and Christ. "How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10:29 (Dan 8:10,13; Matt 5:13) I’ll stop here, as I’ve probably past the two mile mark. This is food for serious thought and do not feel obligated to respond, as it sounds like you are quite busy, but I have and will continue to appreciate reading your comments. For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Pet 4:17

Hi JaniceM, Yes, these scriptures you have listed show the honor that also will be given to the 144,000 who will serve with Christ – those who will receive their “crowns”. Likewise, Jesus receives worship due in our response to the glory he reflects on the Father. Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped. Rev 5:11-14 I don’t mean to burden you with another long dissertation for you to struggle over, but I would like to show you how scripture can be turned from its true message into doctrine of men. Rev 1:16,20 - In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches. Notice what it says in the w12 10/15 pp. 12-16: “We can avoid that kind of attitude if we remember that Jesus has “in his right hand seven stars.” The “stars” mean anointed elders, but what is said about them can also refer to all the elders in the congregations.” Firstly, the stars do not only mean anointed elders, but all anointed ones within the Body of Christ, his Temple priests. 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 6:19,20 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28,26 But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. 1 Cor 12:18 Eph 2:20-22; Ps 119:22; John 2:19,21; 1Cor 12:27; 3:17 Keeping in mind the first quote I gave you, now consider this one: “Divinely constituted authority is also a factor within the Christian congregation. Revelation chapter 1 depicts Christ Jesus as holding the “stars” of the congregation in his right hand. (Rev. 1:16, 20) In a general sense, these “stars” represent the bodies of elders, or overseers, in the congregations” w08 3/15 pp. 3-7 We are getting closer to the merge. Anointed ones are becoming more discrete, while an elder body is turning into the stars in Christ’s right hand. “To avoid that kind of spirit, we can remember that Jesus is pictured in the Bible as having “in his right hand seven stars.” The “stars” represent the anointed overseers and, by extension, all the overseers in the congregations. Jesus can direct the “stars” in his hand in any way he feels appropriate.” w12 10/15 pp. 12-16 - The Watchtower—2012 Here is the total transformation from God’s written word to man’s now set doctrine: Jesus is spoken of in the vision of Revelation as having the seven stars of the seven congregations in his right hand. That is, all these bodies of elders have his favor and are under his full control, power, and direction. it-1 pp. 1028-1030 Apparently, those chosen to receive the outpouring of Holy Spirit through an anointing is second in value to men praying over other men for a blessing of Holy Spirit, based on scriptural guidelines. I am sorry to be blunt about this, but it truly shows no fear toward God and his arrangement. Each anointed has inscribed on the heart and mind, God’s laws. Heb 8:10,10:16; Rom 2:28,29; Rom 5:5;Deut 6:6,8; Rev 14:1 Each anointed one chosen by God is to preserve this law, and through the fruit of the lips serve the people - all of them - as one Body, and as the Temple of God. Mal 2:7 Heb 13:15 Instead of recognizing this, a group of men whom have not received this Holy Spirit directly from God have more authority than his own anointed priesthood. Christ’s Body represents the true religion. 2 Cor 5:20; 1 Cor 4:1; Mal 2:7; John 7:18,38; Rev 21:6,22:17; 14:3,5 The usurping of authority of the chosen ones is the fault of man made organization that defies God’s laws and therefore blasphemes his name. 2 Thess 2:1-4; 1 Cor 3:17 Because of man’s decision to go forward with their own plans over and over again, God has dealt with this before in ancient history and his Levitical priesthood. He has regarded it as an abomination. Let no one enter the house of the Lord except the priests and ministering Levites. They may enter, for they are holy, but all the people shall keep the charge of the Lord. 2 Chron 23:6 In the house of the Lord, his Temple, only chosen priests were to serve. The house of the Lord today is Christ’s Body, his Temple members, holy priesthood which are the anointed ones. Since the early temple was a shadow of the heavenly one, it takes the spiritual eye to see that the transgressing of the Temple today is through the elder arrangement esteemed to be the “stars” in Christ’s right hand. And you shall appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall guard their priesthood. But if any outsider comes near, he shall be put to death.” Numbers 3:10 Be careful that you do not forsake the Levite as long as you live in your land. Deut 12:19 And say to the rebellious house, to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: O house of Israel, enough of all your abominations, in admitting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary, profaning my temple, when you offer to me my food, the fat and the blood. You[b] have broken my covenant, in addition to all your abominations. And you have not kept charge of my holy things, but you have set others to keep my charge for you in my sanctuary. “Thus says the Lord God: No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the people of Israel, shall enter my sanctuary. The elder body are the “others” who have taken the place of the anointed ones; by doing so, God’s sanctuary is profaned. The have “entered” it by replacing God’s choice of whom should serve the people. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 2 Thess 2:3,4 For we are God's fellow workers. You are God's field, God's building. 1 Cor 3:9 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you. If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple. It is my opinion that not only is God’s name being profaned in this way, but through such actions, Christ and his Temple are rejected by the organization.

Hi Shiwii, When you say Jay here, do you mistakenly mean me? There was confusion in the beginning. I will go ahead and give you my thoughts. In all cases of the NWT, the word "proskuneo" is never translated as worship when directed toward Christ. Always it is used as worship toward God and demons. One must ask why the partiality. I believe we need to ask who has divine authority over the Word of God, men or God? Using such partiality introduces doctrines of men, and when this happens it would be wise to question our loyalty to such assumptions. The balance that I believe shows worship due Christ is found in 1 Cor 15:27,28: "For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him that God may be all in all." Unwittingly, we can “worship” what receives our loyalty and obedience. 1 Cor 2:14 1 Samuel gives a great illustration of this: “Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, “No, but we will have a king over us, And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he repeated them in the hearing of the Lord. But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the Lord. And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them. 1 Sam 8:19,21,6,7 Expected obedience to the elder body and GB is spoken of quite frequently in the organization. The word “obeisance” is used continually in the NWT when referring to Jesus. By translating "proskuneo" when referring to Jesus, his deserved worship is downplayed since the immediate obedience is to the organization, which then transfers to mere obedience to Jesus. The deserved worship Jesus should directly receive is blocked through what must be obeyed that is visible to the eye, just as what happened in the account of 1 Samuel. while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal. 2 Cor 4:18 We can see this as a rejection of acknowledged authority due Christ. The early apostles ran into this eagerness by believers, to worship and follow what they saw, which was men, instead of Christ. And the following day they entered Caesarea. Now Cornelius was waiting for them, and had called together his relatives and close friends. As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. But Peter lifted him up, saying, “Stand up; I myself am also a man.” Acts 10:24,26 “ For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this that each of you says, “I am of Paul, or I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.”13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.” 1 Cor 1:13-17 This account should cause one to seriously consider the organization’s questions for baptism and our giving identity to it instead of Christ. From the account in 1 Corinthians, it was a concern that men could be held in higher esteem than Jesus. If someone is dedicated to, and a follower of Christ, they are a Christian; whereas any other dedication becomes the desire of our eyes and what we slave to uphold and maintain. Rom 1:24,25 The one who speaks on his own authority seeks his own glory; but the one who seeks the glory of him who sent him is true, and in him there is no falsehood. John 7:18 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 14:11

Thank you Janice, I suppose I should let you know I am not Jay Witness who asked the question, but just Witness. J I also appreciate your quotes, especially this one which verifies my own thoughts, Romans 10:13 Expositor's Greek Testament - For every one who invokes the name of the Lord shall be saved. The words are from Joel 3:5 (= Joel 2:32 LXX). “The Lord” in the original is Jehovah; here, manifestly, Christ—a proof how completely Christ stands in God’s place in all that concerns salvation. The examples of numerical times that Jesus was used in the latest Wt is interesting, and I believe not the norm; beyond the numerical, one should also the question how his name is used in context. Do the examples portray his glory? This is what I ask myself when reading the information. Acts 13:48; John 17:1-5; 12:28; As an example, when reading Matt 3:17 in the NWT, its rendering of eudokeō as “approved” is a far cry from any other translation I’ve come across. Your words, “Also, from the verses you posted, the disciples baptized in the name of Christ (or Father, son, holy spirit), resurrected in the name of Christ, preached and died in the name of Jesus Christ, etc. We are also doing these things in the name of Christ for we are called Christians.” We could all call ourselves Christians, but behaving as Christ did, following directly in his path and recognizing those who teach truth are sure signs. Have you considered the baptism questions lately? Perhaps this has been brought out since there seems to be a lot of activity going on since I signed in. On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism." Wt. ‘85/6/1 p. 30 This was a big change from the previous: Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him the Father through his Son Jesus Christ? On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightenment of the holy spirit?" Watchtower 1956 Jul 1 p.407 It is important to see the transition from…. "We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah." Watchtower 1966 Oct 1 pp.603-604 Our Relative Subjection to the Superior Authorities As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. Wt ‘90/11/1/p.26 To…. Directing Bible Students to Jehovah’s Organization Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the “one flock” Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah’s organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is establish KM 11/90 p.1 "The wonders about Jehovah’s organization, or “Zion,” and the truth about the spiritual paradise must be joyfully passed on “to future generations.” WT 7/2015 par 13 What confusion! Is the organization then, teaching and baptizing in the name of Christ as the early apostles did as you have stated, or are they baptizing in the name of an organization that is now called Zion, which Heb 12:22 verifies it as heavenly? How did it come about that it was considered idolatry to place salvation in an organization to then an organization becoming Zion? Our dedication cannot be to both an organization and God, but the baptism questions lead one to believe that our identity must be to the organization. This really is not leading one to Christ, but to a man made entity. Jesus said we deny ourselves and follow him, not give our identity to anything other than him. Luke 9:23; Matt 6:24 It is taught that man cannot preach effectively without the organization. The slide rule is all over the place, as we have seen from various quotes; but the bottom line is Jesus told the woman at the well, as did Stephen prior to his stoning, that there is no physical entity needed to do God’s will and this has been brought out by the WT in the past verified by the above quotes. With Christ, it is a new worship and only in the spirit and the truth. Our lean should be directly on the Father and Holy Spirit as our power to accomplish true preaching, as well as Jesus Christ who is truth. John 14:6 Having such faith allows our preaching to be done effectively and pleasing to God. Matt 17:5 Mistakes made by the organization are not brushed over or excused by making new mistakes. God set in place this provision under the New Covenant – Christ and his Chosen ones. Instead, man has usurped this provision by insisting it be done their way; but that is not at all unusual, as sadly it is the pattern of God’s people through history. Jer 5:31 “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight.” Isa 5:20,21 The apostles preached under the direction of Holy Spirit. “Organization” preaches detail of what a person should do or say, which displays a lack of faith in what the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are able to instill in us to accomplish spreading the words of Christ; especially within each anointed ones who carry the burden of teaching. 1 John 3:19-24 This shows a shift from leaning on God’s direction to a leaning on, and depending on man to guide us, and it is how a centralized hierarchy develops. We take it at man’s word that a “faithful and discreet slave” are those in high position, when in reality each anointed slave will only be considered such, through Jesus’ words directly to the individual upon Christ’s return. Rom 14:4 We must realize, shouldn’t we, that those faithful ones throughout the centuries were able to preach without an organization but only through the Holy Spirit blessing them. Acts 1:8 Can God, who “is spirit,” be represented by a material image? No. Regardless of how imposing an icon may be, it can never match the glory of God. So an image of God could never be a truthful representation of him. (Romans 1:22, 23) Would a person be ‘worshiping in truth’ if he approached God through some man-made icon? WT 02 7/1 These words are correct. Yet, the teaching of ‘organization’ as Zion, God's throne, defies them entirely. It is true that you say denominations preach, “get saved in the name of Jesus”. I believe no man made denomination has God’s blessing, but only individuals; yet we should keep in mind, it was in Acts 8:35 that Philip “preached Jesus”. What a good example for us to follow! So how does God feel about the changing teachings by his anointed ones? As you see, there are two types of doctrinal teachings within the Watchtower. We must question the source as either good fruit or bad fruit since a “tree”, represented by God’s chosen ones, cannot hold both, and yet we read both! Luke 6:43 Many have lost their hope through these changing teachings such as that of “generation” over the years, but by applying pure living waters from Christ we can easily say, “Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.” Heb 10:23 “ If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.” James 1:5-8 As humans loyal to a cause, an organization, a belief, we can quickly brush our mistakes aside forgetting those who may have grievously been wronged by them. We are limited in not only our foresight but our hindsight and would rather forget what we’ve done wrong. God is not limited at all, each person is precious. He does not excuse unrepentant acts of another causing one to stumble. Jer 18:15; 6:16; Matt 3:3 When Jesus told Simon to feed my sheep and repeated it three times to verify that his love for others was based on his truth, (2 Cor 13:1) it was to be imparted to others also based on that same truth. Changing doctrine is the same as “meaningless offerings” by God – after all, don’t they lose their meaning even to us when new doctrine is established, new dates are set in place? Isa 1:13 The words of old that prophets relayed to God’s people are still in effect in every way today. Satan’s deceptions have adjusted to appear even craftier, but the basis of God’s disapproval never changes. Mal 3:6 “Stop trusting in mere humans, who have but a breath in their nostrils. Why hold them in esteem?” Isa 2:6-22 (Isa 3:8-11) It is a confusing mix for the brothers and sisters as to whom they should serve, the organization? God? Both? It is easier to blend them into one which then becomes idolatry, as the above quote from the organization states. One’s fortress for salvation becomes the work of one’s own hands. Isa 17:10,11; John 7:18; Jer 51:17 The banner we fly to make God’s name known today is not a blue one that starts with “jw….”, but a symbolic one with the name, “Jesus”. "In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his resting-place will be glorious. In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the surviving remnant of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the Mediterranean. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth." Isa 11:10-12 (Mark 13:27; Rev 9:14); Rev 14:6 Jesus' yoke is light, not one of complicated teachings! Matt 11:30

Hi JaniceM, I am sorry to confuse you, but I do have a point I'm trying to get at. Maybe by the end here? It is interesting that in Romans 10:13, that although the Wt. Kingdom Greek Interlinear says, “everyone who likely might call upon the name of the Lord (Kupiou) will be saved”…the Watchtower took the liberty to translate Lord as Jehovah. Now, of course there are numerous cases in the scriptures where this applies to God. With this particular scripture, though, Romans 10:9 helps us to see just which “Lord” it is addressing, and yet because both Christ and the Father are as one, could it be either? “because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. “ Would this not be the same as calling on the name of Jesus? I think this is what I’m getting at. The concentration given God is by far, extremely important; but also very important is our Savior Jesus Christ, who is left out of the circle in the writings of the Watchtower. Instead, “Jehovah” and the “Organization” are primary. Isn’t this how it is portrayed in the magazines over and over? Consider all the scriptures where “ the name of Jesus” is used. Here are a few of them: "And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" Acts 2:38 "But Peter said, “I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!” Acts 3:8 "for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 8:16 "But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles and declared to them how on the road he had seen the Lord, who spoke to him, and how at Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus." Acts 9:27 "Then Paul answered, “What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 21:13 And more. People were healed, they “preached boldly”, were ready to die, and were saved (Acts 2:38) all in the name of and for, Jesus. It is perfectly acceptable to say we are saved in the name of Jesus, since Revelation backs this up: and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” Rev 7:10 Savior does not only refer to the Father: Truly, you are a God who hides himself, O God of Israel, the Savior. Isa 45:15 But also to the Son: Of this man's offspring God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, as he promised. Acts 13:23 This is the indication of their oneness of Spirit. So yes, we can say, “Everyone who will call on the name of the Lord (Jesus) shall be saved” There is no organization needed to proclaim this message. During the time of the end, we know Christ makes the call for his people to repent of any sins, partake of his spiritual “meal” and ready ourselves for his appearance. “Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; 5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Rev 18:4,5 God’s people are his chosen ones and all those righteous hearted ones along with them.. I think we need to question just where these sins and iniquities are to be found that we are to come out of. Obviously it is his own people who are at fault, not the entire world. The iniquities of God’s people have always been found among them. "if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land." 2 Chron 7:14 "And he said, “Amos, what do you see?” And I said, “A basket of summer fruit.” Then the Lord said to me, “The end has come upon my people Israel; I will never again pass by them." Amos 8:2 "Thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who lead my people astray, who cry “Peace” when they have something to eat, but declare war against him who puts nothing into their mouths." Micah 3:5 The invitation by Christ is this: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me". Rev 3:20 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you." Matt 7:7 We are “saved” according to our faithfulness toward God’s Son, not through an organization. It is by our “testimony” that life is gained. “And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son”. 1 John 5:11 "To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power, so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thess 1:11,12 The early apostles preached God in conjunction with Jesus. They clearly showed the harmony of salvation through Jesus and by the Father. As Jesus and God are as one, the apostles preached this by their testimony. "I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." Rev 1:9 I don’t see this accomplished in the organization, not at all. Instead, the testimony is of the organization and God. Those two, on the other hand, could never be one in spirit. “To whom will you liken me and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be alike? 6 Those who lavish gold from the purse, and weigh out silver in the scales, hire a goldsmith, and he makes it into a god; then they fall down and worship! Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, 9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,” Isa 46:5,6,8,9 Even though we may acknowledge Jesus, If our message does not give testimony of him, then we are showing the Father that we reject his message. “Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God. “And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.” John 12:42-50

Very true, and as brought out through scriptures I have earlier sited, this is through knowing Jesus Christ, who fulfills God’s promises. If Jesus said to his disciples, “if you have seen me, you have seen the Father”, and “believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me”, then we learn not just “many” of God’s attributes, but all of them. He assured us, “But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent Me.” John 7:29 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” John 8:12 Oh, send out Your light and Your truth! Let them lead me; Let them bring me to Your holy hill And to Your tabernacle. Ps 43:3 (John 14:6) The scriptures you relate in Rom 10:14-16 are directing us to Christ. Rom 10:16 is referring to Isa 53:1 and the coming of the Savior: Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? 2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him. 3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Rom 10:17 clarifies this report that needs to be heard, “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.” Through the words of Christ, God’s name is made known in the time of the end! Paul’s sincerity shown in how important these words of Christ should be to us are made evident in Romans 10:1-11: Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” The word of salvation in Christ should be as close to us as our faith in God, the Father. We are told by these words to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus which is our belief in God’s righteousness; and how we deeply, not superficially, make God’s name known - not by mere utterance of a rendition of such a sacred name - but by accepting this righteous gift of salvation and making it known to the world. If we refuse to embrace this teaching, we are then no different than those Paul speaks of as having a zeal for God, but “not according to knowledge”. We both accept this righteous gift and proclaim it, or we shame God by our refusal to declare it with our own mouth. If it was the early apostles’ priority, it should be ours. Are we ashamed of making this proclamation the first and foremost on our lips? Rom 10:16-21 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.” 19 But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.” 20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say, “I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me.” 21 But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.” Rom 10:11 – For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” We can confess a belief in Christ, yet prove to fail at proclaiming his words which God our Father demands that we do. We can say we have “found” Christ, “seen” him through his word, but if we do not seek him or ask God to thoroughly know him; then yes, we are a “disobedient and contrary people”. “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” Luke 10:16 “The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.” We have a great example of how God’s name is magnified through the prayer of Mary. And Mary said, “My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant. For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name. And his mercy is for those who fear him from generation to generation. He has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts; he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate; he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty. He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy, as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his offspring forever.” Luke 1:46-55 The basis of this beautiful prayer that manifests God’s name, was the promise fulfilled of deliverance of his people – how so? Through Christ. I believe our words should also proclaim such reverence when declaring the good news of God’s Kingdom; which begs me to ask, what testimony are we giving, man's words of salvation through organization, or God's words through his Son? If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:9-12

Jesus always referred to God as Father, which should help us realize there is more than just pronouncing his name in order to know him. Jesus made mention many times that by accepting him and his teachings one could know the Father. The book of John is incredible in shedding light on how to know God. Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:6,7 Philip still had to ask, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.” John 14:8-11 More good scriptural proof that by knowing Christ we can know God: And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me that they may be one, even as we are one. John 17:11 O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.” John 17:25,26 These reveal that with the coming of Christ, the best way to understand and know God is by knowing Christ. To the Jews who thought they knew God, he said: “I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me.” They said to him therefore, “Where is your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also.” John 8:18,19 Jesus answered, “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God.’ But you have not known him. I know him. If I were to say that I do not know him, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and I keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.” John 8:54-56 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. All mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me that they may be one, even as we are one. While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:6-12 God’s name is known by receiving Christ’s words and believing in him, recognizing that he is the Bread of Life coming down from the Father. By receiving that bread/teachings/life, we come to know the Father who is its ultimate source. John 6:33,51 We do this with loving gratitude for such a wonderful gift. Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23 Obeying all of God’s laws fulfilled in Christ is motivated by love and faith, which then allows us to be “one” with the Father and Christ (John 17:11). When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. John 17:1-3 The Father knew how far his people had strayed from serving him, thus knowing him was impossible. What a gift we have in Christ; all eyes should be on him and him only to lead us to the Father. He is the mediator of all men, anointed and those not anointed. Our salvation has come to us through Christ; our heart’s devotion and obedience to his teachings can lead us to love him. By doing so, we then come to know and love God, the Father. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Phil 3:8-11 Thus says the Lord: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty man boast in his might, let not the rich man boast in his riches, but let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the Lord who practices steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth. For in these things I delight, declares the Lord.” Jer 9:23,24 Righteousness from God comes through Christ; accepting this in faith leads to knowing God. “For in these things I delight, declares the Lord.” “and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, `This is My Son -- the Beloved, in whom I did delight.' Matt 3:17 Young’s Literal Translation Can we simply address God as “Father” in the same manner as Christ and it be acceptable? Indeed, Christ is our example to follow. There is an account in Malachi 2 where God is relating the iniquities of his priests failing to honor God’s name. “A son honors his father, and a slave his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the respect due me?” says the Lord Almighty. “It is you priests who show contempt for my name. “But you ask, ‘How have we shown contempt for your name?’ “By offering defiled food on my altar. “But you ask, ‘How have we defiled you?’ “By saying that the Lord’s table is contemptible. When you offer blind animals for sacrifice, is that not wrong? When you sacrifice lame or diseased animals, is that not wrong? Try offering them to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you?” says the Lord Almighty. “Now plead with God to be gracious to us. With such offerings from your hands, will he accept you?”—says the Lord Almighty. Mal 1:6-9 Sacrifices today by anointed ones is the fruit of the lips, (Mal 2:7; 1 Pet 2:5; Heb 13:15) which can be defiled through wrong teachings and dishonoring God’s name. If these teachers fail to show the sheep the honor due the Father, how would it be presented? Jesus said, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. John 5:23 Does the organization honor the Son just as it honors the Father? Can we honor the Father but not the Son? Mark 7:6

Would Satan be totally out of operation during the Thousand Years? I think of Job, a man blessed by God amidst much wickedness. Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?” So Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. Job 1:8-12 Revelation is a book of symbols. The Watchtower Kingdom Interlinear for Rev 1:1 reads as word for word, “Revelation of Jesus Christ, which gave to him the God to show to the slaves of him, which (things) it is binding to occur in quickness, and HE SHOWED BY SIGNS having sent off through the angel of him to the slave of him to John” Matt 13:34,35 – “All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: “I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.” By this, we understand that Satan’s “chained” state in the abyss is also symbolic. He was restrained by the conquering Christ, in the first century. John 16:33; 14:30; Luke 10:17-19; Rev 20:1-3; Eph 1:19-21 The scriptures seem to point to Christ beginning his rule at the right hand of God upon his resurrection. John 18:33,36,37; Matt 21:1-5; Luke 17:21 Keeping in mind the use of symbolism in Revelation, the Thousand Year period must have a deeper meaning than a literal time period. “10” used in the Bible is symbolic for completeness or wholeness. “This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” 2 Cor 13:1 The clue here shows that complete truth was received three times. 10X10X10=1000 – a whole and perfect witness to truth. Another example; there is wholeness found in Satan’s realm. “We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.” 1 John 5:19 Another established scripture to help with the Thousand Year period being symbolic is 2 Pet 3:8,9: “But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” This is basically putting an unlimited understanding of “man” time on Christ’s rule, as its limit is in accordance with his will that we all obtain repentance. It also shows man’s impetuous desire to establish dates, when in reality all is governed by God’s own timetable. 2 Pet 3:1-4; 2 Thess 2:1,2; Isa 55:8,9 Since Christ sat at the right hand of God, his Bride of faithful ones has been continually gathered. Eph 1:10; 3:2; Rev 7:4; 14:1; Isa 2:3; Rev 21:2; Ps 110:2 The Watchtower states that this is now Satan’s short period of time, but also teaches the Kingdom began in 1914; but a Thousand Year kingdom is still to come. This sounds rather confusing to me. The Kingdom of God’s coming is in this order according to scripture: In Rev 12:10 - “Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.” Which occurs first, is it the Kingdom, or the casting down? God’s Kingdom is ushered in when all of the 144,000 have been sealed and after Satan’s short period of release is ended. His short time is his last serious deception against Christ’s seed (for the accuser of our brethren). It is after that, God’s Kingdom begins, (NOW salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God….) But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 1 Cor 15:23-26 The Watchtower Kingdom Interlinear translates word for word, Matt 24:3,8 as: 3 – “Sitting but of him upon the Mount of the Olives came toward him the disciples according to private (spot) saying Say to us when these (things) will be and what the sign of the your presence and of conclusion of the age” 8- “all but these (things) beginning of PANGS OF BIRTH” Mark 13:8 reads, “….beginning of BIRTH PAINS these things” Before birth there are always pains of labor, and the birth we are speaking of is the advent of the Kingdom. If it is already here, than birth has come before labor. “Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.” Rev 12:1,2,5 That birth of the completed number of heirs, causes the kingdom of this world, to become the kingdom of our God, Rev 11:15; 12:10 God’s will then takes place as it already is in heaven (among those sealed -Eph 2:6; Heb 12:22,23; Luke 10:20), ...even to take place on earth (Matt 6:10). And are labor pains found in Satan’s world? It is the woman covenant that suffers the pains of birth. Satan has been able to mislead everyone with events taking place in the very world he controls 1 John 5:19;12:31. God's Holy Kingdom is not being born from this demonic source Job 14:4;John 18:36. Once Satan is cast down, all is finished. Since the Father has committed all judging to his Son, his Thousand Year rule has presented complete truth to all the anointed ones and they are judged by their acceptance to it. Mal 3:18; 2 Tim 3:13 Armageddeon has to do with the battle between Kings, chosen anointed ones. Rev 16:16 (Rev 1:6,5:10; Matt 19:28; Rev 11:16) It is a “court case” held symbolically to determine each one’s righteousness in acceptance of truth outlined by Jesus Christ. Joel 3:12,14; Dan 7:10-14,18-27 This is truly Satan’s short period of time; enraged at the woman’s seed, and uses deception to cause each chosen one to possibly fall for his lies placed before them. Rev 12:17 Through each potential sealed priest/king’s teachings, Christ gives his final judgment, (Matt 12:37; John 12:48) to them, as well as to all who listen. John 21:17

John 15:18 - By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. The fruit produced by one’s works will determine if it is sourced in the Father with the help of Jesus’ guidelines. We are aware that chosen ones are described many times in the bible as trees. Rev 22:1,2 Compare to Ezek 47:7,12; Isa 61:3 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.” Matt 7:15-20 There are those “trees” – teachers, prophets – who can produce a fruit from their own “works” that is worthless, according to Jesus; a fruit we are to be wary of. “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’ Matt 7:21-23 The works of love would be an identifying mark of fruit sourced in God. 1 John 3:10,11,23; 4:20,21 A true prophet or teacher would display such love to all. “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matt 12:33-37 The fruit produced by such ones is through their own words or works. "Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name." Heb 13:15 (Mal 2:7; 1 Cor 3:14) Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those who love it will eat its fruit. Prov 18:21 “Good trees” from Matt 7 speak “good things” from the “good treasure” of a good heart of righteousness. A rotten tree (offspring of vipers/Satan's seed) speaks "wicked things" out of his "wicked treasure" from a "wicked heart" that is "condemned". It’s up to us through Jesus’ guidance to consider each one’s teachings (fruits) as proving true or rotten. If true, it surrenders completely to God’s words, absent of any “doctrines of men”. John 8:47; Matt 15:9; 2 Thess 2:10 Through such doctrines, these ones prove that their own glory is manifested through their words. 1Cor.4:8; 2Thess.2:4; 1 John 2:15; Eccl 8:9 Each “tree” or teacher or prophet – each anointed one – produces either all good or all bad fruit. There is no middle ground. If we ingest fruit below par and also give it (works) to another, the result of bearing such fruit can put one’s life in jeopardy. John 8:44; Heb 2:14; James 1:15 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. Gen 3:6,7 (Rev 3:17)

I have asked myself the same question, Jay Witness. If I line it all up, this is the breakdown: In reference to God, the word for “worship” is used in John 4:23 1 Cor 14:25; Heb 11:21 Rev 4:10; Rev 5:14 For idolatrous images or Satan I found: Luke 4:7; Matt 4:9; Acts 7:43 In reference to Jesus, the same word for worship elsewhere is translated "obeisance" or "bowed down" in Luke 24:52; Mark 5:6; Matt 2:2,8,11;8:2;9:18; 14:33; 15:25; Matt 28:9; John 9:35,38; Mark 5:6; Luke 24:52; Heb 1:6 Where all other bibles use “worship”, why would the NWT never, in any case, use it when referencing Jesus? Heb 1:6 is especially interesting when checking the WT Kingdom Interlinear where it reads, “But when he again brings his firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels WORSHIP him”. Yet the RNWT contrastingly uses the word “obeisance”. This is something to rightly consider, since he has been given the authority to judge mankind. Our life is in his hands, and God expects honor be given him as we honor our God. Ps 110:1,2 “ For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.” John 5:21-23 The word for “honor (G5091) from Strong’s: τιμάω timáō, tim-ah'-o; from G5093; to prize, i.e. fix a valuation upon; by implication, to revere:—honour, value. G5093 - valuable, i.e. (objectively) costly, or (subjectively) honored, esteemed, or (figuratively) beloved:—dear, honourable, (more, most) precious, had in reputation. If we are to revere the Son just as we hold in high esteem the Father; then it seems to me these scriptures in John 5 give full evidence that worshiping the Son is expected by the Father; but not necessarily on the same level. John 17:22; Exod 20:3 Definition of worship from the dictionary: “to honor or respect (someone or something) as a god. : to show respect and love for God or for a god especially by praying, having religious services, etc. : to love or honor (someone or something) very much or too much.” Using the argument against worshiping Jesus, found in Matt 4:8-10, Jesus is speaking to Satan and not another human. Jesus reminded him where his worship should lie, since Jesus worships the Father; the angels worship the Father and Satan should worship the Father. Instead, Satan demanded worship be given him. Under no other account that I’m aware of did Jesus stop a human from giving him worship. “And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!” Rev 5:13 We keep the position of authority in mind when giving worship to God and Christ. “For ‘He has put all things under His feet.’ But when He says ‘all things are put under Him,’ it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” 1 Cor 15:27,28 If the word “worship” is used in reference to demons or idols in the NWT, how much more so should it be used for Jesus Christ, our Saviour.

"Modestly, anointed ones acknowledge that they do not necessarily have more holy spirit than those with an earthly hope." No one is superior as all become children of God in God’s Kingdom. Yet, those chosen as priests and kings to serve in God’s Temple have a specific job to do. True faithful anointed ones are blessed with the outpouring of Holy Spirit to teach truth; if and only if, they remain part of the vine, one with Christ and one in the Body of Christ. Their sole purpose is to serve God and Christ in righteousness and administer to the people the true fruit of the vine, true knowledge that Holy Spirit gives them. You shall anoint them, as you anointed their father, that they may minister to Me as priests; for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.” Exod 40:15 But let no one come into the house of the Lord except the priests and those of the Levites who serve. They may go in, for they are holy; but all the people shall keep the watch of the Lord. 2 Chron 23:6 “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge, And people should seek the law from his mouth; For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts. Mal 2:7 If proven faithful, Chosen ones are blessed with knowledge to impart to the people; again, if they remain in union with their Head, Jesus Christ. They do not claim to have special knowledge or revelations; neither do they try to prove that they are in some way superior. Any honor shown is according to the justice of God, given to those who were without honor in man’s eyes, in order that there should be no superiority, imbalance, or division within the Body. 1 Cor 12:24-26; Matt 20:26,27; 1 Cor 4:7; Rom 12:3,6; 1 Pet 4:10; Matt 20:16; 23:12 If God chooses the most despised to be shown an equalizing amount of mercy, of what concern is that to anyone? 1 Cor 1:26-30; Matt 20:13-15 All anointed are undeserving worthless slaves, who perform their assigned place within the Body of Christ, and not out of superiority. Rom 4:4; Luke 17:10; 1 Cor 4:7; Luke 12:48 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Cor 12:4-11 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light 1 Pet 2:9 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1 Cor 2:13 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 1 John 2:20 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. John 14:26 For the administration of this service not only supplies the needs of the saints, but also is abounding through many thanksgivings to God, while, through the proof of this ministry, they glorify God for the obedience of your confession to the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal sharing with them and all men, and by their prayer for you, who long for you because of the exceeding grace of God in you. Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift! 2 Cor 9:12-15 “For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge, And people should seek the law from his mouth; For he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts.” Mal 2:7 It is a requirement that all anointed minister to the people in the knowledge they receive from the outpouring of their anointing. If they remain anonymous, ambiguous, concealed, mysterious, unknown; their true calling to serve God and Christ goes unheeded. "In no way, then, would they use their anointing as a “calling card” to introduce themselves to others. For the most part, they would not even mention this personal experience to others, so as to avoid drawing attention to themselves; neither would they want to boast about their future reward." Of course not. Anyone with humility would not boast in such a way. And yet, these Chosen ones are not only Temple priests, but ARE symbolically, the spiritual Temple: Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. 1 Cor 6:19,20 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Eph 2:19,22 “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. Matt 10:40 How can one receive such anointed ones if they are to remain silent? As Mal 2:7 brings out, the people must seek knowledge from the lips of such faithful ones. And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, assuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.” Matt 10:42 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” Matt 25:44-46 Jesus’ anointing: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind, To set at liberty those who are oppressed Luke 4:18 Faithful anointed ones follow in Christ’s footsteps as one in Christ: Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. 2 Cor 1:21,22 Chosen ones also must proclaim liberty to the captives and the oppressed as ambassadors of Christ. "Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5:20 This can only be accomplished when the Body is one in Christ. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. John 15:5 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. John 17:10 Can Jesus be glorified through his faithful anointed ones if they remain undisclosed? Because of the suggested state of the anointed ones to remain camouflaged among all the people; God’s Temple lies in ruins. It appears it was not the case when the early apostles began building this Temple in Christ. They were well known among all believers: To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours 1 Cor 1:2 We should ask, why is it different today? Could this be considered a defilement of God’s Temple? Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Cor 3:16,17 We realize that in the end times this Temple MUST be restored. What are God’s people waiting for? “Thus speaks the Lord of hosts, saying: ‘This people says, “The time has not come, the time that the Lord’s house should be built.”’” 3 Then the word of the Lord came by Haggai the prophet, saying, 4 “Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, and this temple to lie in ruins?” 5 Now therefore, thus says the Lord of hosts: “Consider your ways! 6 “You have sown much, and bring in little; You eat, but do not have enough; You drink, but you are not filled with drink; You clothe yourselves, but no one is warm; And he who earns wages, Earns wages to put into a bag with holes.” Haggai 1:2-6 Is it man’s call to decide when the anointed ones come together under their Master, Christ? Is it man’s decision to keep Christ’s brothers silent when it is their duty to glorify their Master and God through teaching truth, that each individual anointed one should know? It appears to me that the Chosen ones should prayerfully consider their circumstances and listen to Christ’s teachings to come together as a complete Body for the benefit of all. Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Consider your ways! Go up to the mountains and bring wood and build the temple, that I may take pleasure in it and be glorified,” says the Lord. “You looked for much, but indeed it came to little; and when you brought it home, I blew it away. Why?” says the Lord of hosts. “Because of My house that is in ruins, while every one of you runs to his own house. Haggai 1:7-9 ‘Who is left among you who saw this temple in its former glory? And how do you see it now? In comparison with it, is this not in your eyes as nothing? Haggai 2:3

Hi John, I gotta hand it to you, even though what I write sounds like “crap”, you are kind enough to say, “maybe that will help me understand”. Armageddon. Well, on this forum is an interesting thread entitled “When did Jesus Secure Full Kingdom Power?” The argument is made that Christ began ruling as King upon his ascension into heaven and gives much scriptural support to this that I will save space from repeating here. Through this valid reasoning, we then realize Christ’s Thousand Year Kingdom has been in progress since then. 2 Pet 3:8,9 Christ’s rule from heaven is not one of peace but one of spiritual warfare from heavenly Zion. Ps.110:1-2; Matt.10:34;Rev.6:4; 2:16; 19:11,14; 17:14; 2:26-27; 12:7; Gen.3:15; 2Cor.10:4-5; Rom.13:12; Eph.6:12 God’s faithful “kings” can rule now on the earth, by gaining their heavenly status through faith. Rev 5:9,10; Heb 12:22 Anointed ones are considered as “stars of the heavens” that can remain shining through righteous acts, or become unrighteous and fall through deception. Mark 13:25; Jude 1:11-13; Rev 1:16; Heb 11:12; Phil 2:15 We know Christ's kingdom of a "thousand years" is not the same period as God's eternal Kingdom, which arrives when Christ's kingdom is finished, and his enemies are ultimately subdued through the work of "Zion", the entire 144,000, God and Christ. Ps.110:1,2,3; 2:2,3,9;Rev.2:26,27.(Jer 23:29) However long this takes, for I believe this time period is symbolic; at the end of this period, Satan is let loose from the abyss to mislead God’s anointed ones with lies and deception; it is the also time of the Great Tribulation. The WT verifies that this is Satan’s short period of time. In my timeline, I also believe this is happening now. What we don’t realize is that during Satan’s short period of time, he is like a lion let out of a cage and enraged at the chosen ones he targets to destroy. Rev 12:17 Armageddon can be perceived as though coming from Satan’s world; while during his literal acts of upheaval that he is building among us giving many great anxiety of what is to come, he also attacks the anointed ones ferociously with spiritual deception and is the true basis of Armageddon. Eph 6:12; Rev 20:3 This deception in the end time is also the Great Tribulation, brought on by Satan’s release. The capstone of Zech 4:7-10 successfully endures and is victorious over Satan’s deceitful plan to capture each anointed one with truth, then tests them with lies attached. Rev 13:10 (Isa 49:10) This is why the days are “cut short” – Satan’s short period of time/the Great Tribulation/Armageddon, as “no flesh would be saved”. But for those who put aside all transgressions against God, who “buy” the refined gold in Christ and represent him only in spirit and in truth, they are released from their spiritual captivity and become those of Rev 14:4,5 – not defiled with any other “woman” covenant but follow Christ thoroughly with words pure and blameless, and with no deceit. Rev 18:4-8; 3:18 Gal 4:21-26 - "Tell me, YOU who want to be under law, Do YOU not hear the Law? For example, it is written that Abraham acquired two sons, one by the servant girl and one by the free woman; but the one by the servant girl was actually born in the manner of flesh, the other by the free woman through a promise. These things stand as a symbolic drama; for these [women] mean two covenants, the one from Mount Sinai, which brings forth children for slavery, and which is Hagar. Now this Hagar means Sinai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." "Now we, brothers, are children belonging to the promise the same as Isaac was. But just as then the one born in the manner of flesh began persecuting the one born in the manner of spirit, so also now. Nevertheless, what does the Scripture say? “Drive out the servant girl and her son, for by no means shall the son of the servant girl be an heir with the son of the free woman.” Wherefore, brothers, we are children, not of a servant girl, but of the free woman. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." The New Covenant made with the "Israel of God" is symbolized by Sarah Gal.6:15,16; 1 Pet 3:6 coming from Mt. Zion in heaven Rev 14:1, which is also “New Jerusalem” and the “afar off” City of promise Heb 11:10,13,16 The “free woman” whose “children are belonging to the promise” are free from sin, the written law, and belonging to heaven. Heb 12:23. There is another “woman” covenant (promise), one of death that those in Christ can be defiled by and which Rev 14:4,5 correlates with: Isa 28:14-16 - Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers who rule this people in Jerusalem. 15 You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death, with the realm of the dead we have made an agreement. When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by, it cannot touch us, for we have made a lie our refuge and falsehood our hiding place.” 16 So this is what the Sovereign Lord says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who relies on it will never be stricken with panic. I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line; hail will sweep away your refuge, the lie, and water will overflow your hiding place. 18 Your covenant with death will be annulled; your agreement with the realm of the dead will not stand. When the overwhelming scourge sweeps by, you will be beaten down by it. 19 As often as it comes it will carry you away; morning after morning, by day and by night, it will sweep through.” During the time of the end, Satan has created his counterfeit covenant against Christ with the Harlot of Revelation; who is also the False Prophet steeped in deception and lies. Prov 2:16,19 The Great Crowd are those chosen ones who are part, the final remnant, of the 144,000 and who come out of this end time tribulation; and in repentance, purging themselves from such lies that all of God’s priests are subjected to. Rev.13:11,15,7; 11:2;Dan.8:10-12,24,25; 11:31,36,37; 2Thess.2:4; Dan.12:7 These particular ones are the capstone of Zechariah 4:10 and complete the Bride of Christ by the fulfillment of the New Covenant, who are the virgins within that "woman" Covenant or Mother Psalm45:14; 2Cor.11:2 They are sealed into the Temple Priesthood, the Holy City, joining their brothers and sisters of the 144,000. The promise or covenant toward them, is then fulfilled. By this completion of “Jerusalem Above” that “comes down OUT of Heaven", to the earth, it brings with it a new "woman"/covenant or promise.....The materialization, of the collective Bride of Christ. She is no longer a promise in heaven, but a reality on earth. That Kingdom Covenant Bride will "come down out of heaven", Rev.21:2;Rev.12:1 then on the earth. Rev.12:6,14 It's members in Christ bring the restoration and healing to all of Creation Rev.22:3,2,17 and give the “rest” of mankind who are also repentant….life. The Great Tribulation, Satan’s short period of time and Armageddon all describe the same time period. Armageddon is situated in the low plain of decision; a testing of each one’s heart of all of Christ’s chosen ones, his Kings, as well as all who recognize these faithful ones. Joel 3:14; Matt 25:40 Can you see how these events would all be the same? Satan is enraged, fighting in the spirit realm against truth and using his own “kings” who have succumbed to his lies to fight his battle against Christ. Gen 3:15. This struggle between the offering of lies and truth “tribulates” the soul and heart of those under the captivity of lies, causing great division. Each side builds their own “army”, Christ’s faithful ones against those who choose Satan’s lies. Joel3:14; Isa.43:8,9; Dan.7:22; Matt.25:9,10; 1Cor.11:18,19; Mal.3:18; Matt.7:20 “nd I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the KINGS of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” Rev 16:13 Boy, so sorry this is so long. And yes, the anointed 144,000 know who they are; but in order to be sealed in Christ, they must meet God’s high standards of purity and purge themselves of Satan’s lies, accepting this discipline from Christ himself. 1Tim.1:19,20; 1Cor.5:5; Prov.23:14; Rev.19:15

Hi John, Initially, the Great Tribulation is a time of testing and refining for God’s priesthood, the firstfruits. Rev 7:3; 9:4 “And the word of Jehovah again came to me, saying: “Son of man, the house of Israel has become like worthless dross to me. All of them are copper and tin and iron and lead in a furnace. They have become the dross of silver. “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Because all of you have become like worthless dross, I am collecting you together inside Jerusalem. “ Ezek 22:17-19 The anointed priesthood must be proved blameless and pure; dedicated to their Master, Christ. Satan tests each one of them as to their heart condition. Luke22:31; 1Pet.4:12,13. Ezek 22:23-29 describes the circumstances where these anointed are being refined, a symbolic setting today yet with physical evidence as well. They ARE Jerusalem, the Temple, as well as part of it. Eph 2:20-22; 1 Cor 12:27; Rev 20:6;22:3 “These are those who did not defile themselves with women, (another covenant than that of the New Covenant) for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.” Rev 14:4,5 It is through that test, and how each chosen one responds to it, that the unsealed invited ones are either sealed as slaves of God, Christ, and their mother covenant, New Jerusalem Rev 14:1; 22:4; 3:12; Gal 4:26,24 Which is when that they are given their white robe Rev 3:5; 6:11; 7:9,13,14; 22:14; 19:8,14; 15:6... Or, they are branded as slaves of other Masters Rev 17:5; Ezek 16:2,44,45; Isa 28:15 Choosing any Master other than Christ is choosing the covenant of death and her harlot daughters. Rev 17:5; Ezek 16:2,44,45; Isa 28:15, Ezek 16:44 Only after all of these anointed ones are sealed, does the Great Tribulation break out on the "trees, earth, and earth/land" Rev 9:4;7:3; 12:9,12; 20:8; Isa 56:8 The Great Tribulation is based on the acceptance of truth that becomes available over lies in the time of the end; truth exposed by those refined, sealed invited “priests”, which allows the rest of mankind to accept or decline. John 13:20; Matt 10:40,41; 25:40,46 How would the other faithful “come to life”? It is through a spiritual awakening and the accepting of truth. Rev 20:4-8; John 5:24; 6:47,58; 11:26 This battle is between messengers of death/lies, and the messengers of life/truth. Mal 2:7-9 Due to exposure to both, the next phase of the tribulation (“to thresh”) of sifting, occurs for the "rest". In this "valley of decision", it is decided who receives life or destruction. Rev 20:5; 8:13; 11:14; 12:12; 11:5; 9:12,18,20,21 EVERY heart is tested as to our dedication strictly to God by the acceptance of truth or lies. We cannot gain salvation by leaning on another or a group, but through each heart’s inclination. Luke 21:35; Rev 2:4; Jer 5:31; Ezek 13:19,22; Isa 28:15; 2 Thess 2:9-15; Rev 13:3; Ezek 13:4-12 This is how I see it, John. Keep asking me if my explanation is not clear. I hate to think it is still "crap to a degree".

Hi John Houston, I am so sorry for the confusion. No, not everyone goes to heaven. The Great Crowd, as Nancy’s post eludes to are the holy priesthood, which appears as the part of the “144,000”; yet they are unique in a trait they carry as coming out of the Great Tribulation and will rule as priests and kings with Christ. They are the spiritual Jews, circumcised on the heart, and from every tribe of the sons of Israel. Rev 7:4; Rom 2:28,29 The "temple" in Revelation symbolizes the anointed faithful, refined, sealed 144000 priests, among whom God and Christ dwells 1 Cor 3:16; Eph 2:21,22; Rev 7:15d Where does that leave the rest of mankind? The fulfilled promise of the New Covenant which is seen when the Bride and Christ are united and “comes down out of heaven” is when the rest of faithful mankind see its fruitage, giving life to its seed who are also children of God. When a bride and husband become one, they then produce a seed. It is this way with the New Covenant. By the seed they produce, the promise given to Abraham is also fulfilled. God's promise for all faithful mankind indeed does not return without results. Once the firstfruits are redeemed, then the remaining “rest of the woman’s seed” obtain everlasting life. Anointed ones are a new creation, of both spiritual and physical, and as Christ appeared after his death to the disciples in bodily form; he will again appear and his priests will do the same, working for and serving,not only their Father, but mankind on the earth in the same way the early priesthood was obligated to do for all of God's people. When Jesus fed the large crowds of people with loaves and fishes, he directed his disciples to distribute it. Mark 6:39-44 It will be the same In God's Kingdom on the earth, Christ as the high priest will direct his "bride" of priests to bring spiritual food and sustenance via him and God. Num 18:7; 2 Cor 5:17 Gen 28:12; John 1:51; Rev 21:1,2,10; Ezek 47:12; Rev 22:2; Zech 4:11-14 (two meaning truth)